Rebuilding Trust

So glad to hear things are on an upswing for you ChooseLove - you and your beautiful wife are always in my prayers...

Hey everyone, Been a while since I posted so I thought I would say hello and let everyone know that things are still going really, really well. Last night I was thinking about how far I have come and what I have learned about love and living in understanding with my wife - here are just a few things that came to mind: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Love is making the bed everyday so my wife does not have to.... Love is planning and making dinner for the family so my wife does not have to (she hates cooking even though she is a great cook)... Love is running to the store to get my wife strawberries because she is craving them..... Love is crawling into bed exhausted but listening to my wife tell me the same story she told me earlier... Love is making phone calls, appointments and stuff for my wife so she doesn't have to... Love is giving my wife a massage without it leading to sex, even though we had already planned to make love earlier.... Love is planning what I am going to wear the next day so that I don't wake my wife up getting ready for work the next morning... Love is hearing my wife tell me about a concert or comedy show she just heard about that is still 6 months away and taking the time to write it down and plan a date to surprise her.... Love is getting a text or seeing a Facebook post about a recipe my wife likes or wants to try and then making it happen...... Love is remembering my wife's work schedule so that on days it works out, I can ask her to come have lunch with me near my work... Love is telling my wife to go buy a new outfit for her second job interview, so she really feels comfortable and good about herself going into it... Love is planning and budgeting so that my wife can keep up with her pedicure and manicure and hair, so she always feels loved, pampered and beautiful... Love is hiding little notes for my bride so she finds them when I’m not there and she knows I am thinking about her…. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You see, some of these things I didn't allot for in the past or I would justify to myself why it was her responsibility, I worked hard and was too tired, or that we couldn't afford it or whatever - I was a selfish pig....... It is amazing the energy and clarity of mind that you find when you put God first and then put your wife before yourself. The beauty of it too is that as you lay down your life for your bride, she naturally responds and she begins responding and reciprocating the loving actions back… Read my thread, this didn't happen over night. I had to go first by laying down my life for my bride and learn to love unconditionally, without expectations. I couldn't have done it without the support and teachings of this ministry. Just ask my wife and she will tell you that it is a miracle I found the ministry and was able to change. She was 100% sure that day she left me that I would walk away and never look back.....

The ball is in your court now brother. I have just read through your posts and there is really nothing new I can say here - you have been given all the tools you need to be able to do what is necessary to keep your marriage and take it to a whole new level but you keep choosing (yes choosing) to sabotage the process because it's too hard or she doesn't understand or I'm too tired right now or I deserve better than this or you get the point, it's all about you and not about blessing her or becoming You are being called to lay down your life for the sake of finding it (did you know you were lost). She has asked you to find yourself but you don't even know who that is do you? Your wife was a gift from God, given to you as your Helpmeet. She is trying to help you become the man she needs you to be, which is also by the way, the man you were created to be! Are you ready to die to the old and become new? You have go to get out of your own way here brother. You are fortunate enough to still be with your wife, although it sounds like barely, as you are living in the basement, A second intensive, sure hope you are paying attention. There are so many of us guys out here that are not with our wives and we are having to work a hundred times harder than you currently are to try to win them back. Let me just tell you that one day, if you keep this up the way you have been, she will decide to file for divorce or legal separation. Do you secretly want that, so that it will be her fault? That way you can tell all your friends and family that you did everything you could do but she walked away and it won't be your fault. But truth be told, you will have pushed her away. Is that what it is going to take to wake you up? Trust me brother, the grass is not greener on the other side. Your issues will follow you and you will never be able to find true happiness. Now is the time, now is the place, and now is the calling for you to become the man of her dreams my brother so that you can become the man God is calling you to be....... There may not be an opportunity later..... For me, if you want to go and read through my thread, the light went on when my wife left me. It was not an easy journey at all and it took me almost four years to finally totally win her heart back. But let me tell you that every second of that journey was worth it and God ordained. I learned how to truly die to myself and how to put my wife first loving her unconditionally, without expectations. Today, we are in an Outrageously Happy Marriage and I have no regrets and am happier than I have ever been. So don't give up brother, fight on, fight hard and fight like a man of God and He will guide your steps!

Hi Ophelia, I really hope that going to the intensive again will open up the scales on Riversedge's eyes. I'm a man that lost my wife to an affair after she had had more than enough of me stringing her along. No, I don't recommend an affair at all - even my wife now regrets the affairs but absolutely does not regret leaving me. It took me almost four years to ultimately win my wife's heart back completely and I have no regrets. I was able to grow so much in Christ from having to pursue my wife and win her heart back and today we are in an outrageously happy marriage. I jumped in here to encourage you to follow Joel and Kathy's advice. When and if they tell you it is time to kick him out, you need to follow their advice. If he truly loves you, he will get in touch with Joel and get involved in the men's calls and start the process of changing into a Christlike Man and your heart. Some men will not change unless it hurts more staying the same than it does to change and some men will not change when push comes to shove. But what I am hearing in your latest post is that you are near your breaking point. Feel free to read through my thread and my journey. You deserve to have a husband that loves and adores you - be strong - be brave - be diligent, God loves his girls and will keep you in the storm!

Hey ChooseLove, Hope and pray that things are still warming and will eventually turn HOT for you and your bride. Just wanted to remind you that you are going to have to leave it up to her to accept the initiations from you in the intimacy area - in her timing, not yours. Her heart is being drawn to you more and more each day but she is holding off, in order to be safe and protected. One day she will step out of her safe zone and you will need to be ready or just like a turtle, she will snap back into her shell. Above all things, pursue Godliness and you will be ready.... Your job is to keep pursuing, unconditionally, period, exclamation point!

Hang in there my brother, you have got this. Per our earlier phone call, please start writing that heartfelt apology letter we talked about. Remember that you must go first and that it was your actions early on, before the first affair that let her astray. Then, in my opinion, the counseling that you both received (not Joel and Kathy) was not teaching you how to become the Christlike man Nikki needed you to become in order for her to be healed and completely come out of the need to feel safe which is causing her to hold on to those other guys via facebook (you have even said before that she has said she needs a backup plan). Quit worry about the Facebook contacts, activities, etcetera. Those distractions I am pretty certain are coming through in your interactions with Nikki and keeping her feeling unsafe. I am not sure that you have not completely forgiven her for and taken responsibility for her getting into the affairs. As we discussed, before my wife felt completely safe, she refused to give up the affair and kept a backup plan in place. Even today, after 18 months of being back together - I would not be surprised if she still has a contingency plan in the back of her mind and I can not blame her! Honestly David, I know the ministry calls for two years and you have done that and are free to walk away if you feel God leading you that way. The problem is that you may feel it is God when it is really just your feelings getting the best of you. Based on conversations with my wife and your situation I truly feel that Nikki's heart is still win-able. I am being bold here but I am truly feeling that you need to commit to another year. I hate to put any time frame on it cause it is not about time but the commitment, about truly dying to self and loving unconditionally. If you can truly and honestly say that your are doing that, good for you. Take a deep hard look and don't make any rash decisions. I agree with Tim on just leaving the Facebook thing alone (refer back to what I said about feeling safe and needing an exit strategy)! My suggestion today for you was for you to write a brand new apology letter from the heart and in your own words (no templates) - it has got to be from the heart or it will not work and it has to be about her and not about you and YOUR FEELINGS, YOUR WANTS or YOUR NEEDS. We talked about this and how it should flow. Take your time, don't rush it and keep it about her and her pain, how hard this must be for her and how sorry you are to have put her through this. Once you have written it out, POST it back here for feedback before you give it to her. Then once you have given it to her, you step away and don't ever bring it up again. Give her the power to read it, digest it, reread it, talk to you about it or throw it away - you must give her control!

David, I am so happy to hear that your feeling safe and away from the edge. Never let your guard down and never stop leading and being her hero, the process takes time but most of all - I can vouch that it is WORTH IT! You guys looked so good in the pics from Disneyland. Keep up the good fight my brother.....

Hey everyone, Today is exactly one year from the day that Shawn flew back from Arkansas and moved back into our home. It was funny, I was wondering if she remembered. I had arranged for a bouquet of flowers to be delivered to her today and made arrangements for dinner and movie tonight but she did not know, I put that info in the card attached to the flowers. So about 1pm today, I got a text from here thanking me for the flowers and card. She thought I forgot because she was thinking she came back on May 19th, not the 20th. I texted her back that she may be right, maybe I got off a day (but I was pretty sure I was correct). Didn't take her long to text me back that I was correct and she thanked me again and told me she was so looking forward to our date tonight. She then sent me a text that said, "You are our families Rock and I am our Heart, together we are perfect and one"! WOW, we have come a long way. Today is just another milestone along the path to an outrageously happily marriage that will now last forever! I also have another surprise for my beautiful bride next week. I have to go to Salt Lake City for business and I invited her along. We decided to drive instead of fly and work gave me the extra days off to do so. At the end of my work week, Shawn and I are going to go out to dinner with one of my coworkers and her husband and then go back over to their house and hang out for a bit. I arranged for different lodging on Friday and Saturday nights that she does not know about. The lodging is a cabin by a lake resort and my coworkers in Utah highly recommended it. I even found a GROUPON to get two nights for like $120. In addition to the cabin, I made plans for us to get up on Saturday morning and go on an adventure that includes renting a two seater ATV for the day, stopping for a nice picnic by a secluded lake while ATVing and then ending the day with a ZIPLINE ride that goes as fast as 50 miles per hour (something she has always talked about doing). Work is covering all of the expenses except for the ATV adventure and ZIPLINE excursions.... I am so excited. The kids are both old enough to stay home alone - wasn't that a movie (ut oh)...... God Bless you all and remember guys, there is not down side to walking out what Joel & Kathy teach here. I won my wife back but I could not have done that unless I stayed the course and followed my heart and the Holy Spirti

Very nice, just remember your supposed to be doing this out of unconditional love - no response required......

Click to play Casting Crowns' 'Just Be Held' Is What You Need When the Storms of Life Are Raging

Had some free time today and some time off work. Will catch up the recording this week too by the end of the week. Today I felt like posting a few thoughts I have been meaning to share........ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I was reading the story of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego in Daniel chapter 3 this week and wanted to share some thoughts with you all... I am going to use a web reference to refer to the story so I don't mis-quote it but the life application will be a bit different from what is stated on the site or from the service to make it directed at the men out there that have found themselves in the middle of the biggest trial of their lives (separation or divorce)..... http://www.whatchristianswanttoknow.com/the-fiery-furnace-bible-story-and-life-application/ The Fiery Furnace Bible Story Summary This story is from Daniel chapter three and involves the king of Babylon, King Nebuchadnezzar, making a golden image and his requirement that all in the kingdom must bow down and worship it at the sounding of the music. The three Jews who refused to bow down and worship this image were Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. When the Chaldeans reported this news to King Nebuchadnezzar, he was furious and gave orders that the three men be brought before him immediately. When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were brought before King Nebuchadnezzar he asked them if it was true that they refused to bow down and worship the image. The king told the three men that they risked being thrown into the fiery furnace if they didn‘t. The three men simply answered the king that it was true – they refused to bow down and worship the golden image. These three Jews didn't try to make excuses, give the king an apology or try to reason with him. They flatly refused to bow down and worship the idol, even at the king’s command and with the threat of losing their lives. Listen to their bold response: “we do not need to defend ourselves before you in this matter. If we are thrown into the blazing furnace, the God we serve is able to deliver us from it, and he will deliver us from Your Majesty’s hand. But even if he does not, we want you to know, Your Majesty, that we will not serve your gods or worship the image of gold you have set up” (Dan 3:16-18). King Nebuchadnezzar was outraged and commanded the men to immediately be thrown into the fiery furnace. In fact, the king ordered that the furnace be heated up to seven times its normal rate as an expression of the king’s rage against the men. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were bound and thrown into the furnace. The furnace was so hot that it immediately annihilated the soldiers who threw the three men into it. The three men were tied up and bound with their garments so as to have no possible escape. King Nebuchadnezzar must have been present because right after this he was astonished and asked his counselors that “Did we not cast three men bound into the fire? They answered, ’True O King’. He then answered and said, ’But I see four men unbound, walking in the midst of the fire, and they are not hurt; and the appearance of the fourth is like a son of the gods’” (Dan 3:24-25). The king apparently recognized the fourth person as being a divine being. When Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego came out of the furnace, their clothes were not harmed, not a hair on their heads were singed and they didn't even have the smell of smoke on them (Dan. 3:27). King Nebuchadnezzar was so impressed that he commanded everyone in the entire Babylonian Empire to give homage to the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and to not even speak an ill word against him or be put to death. Even the king gave honor and glory to this god, unknown to him as he was, he wrote praises for him: “How great are his signs, how mighty his wonders! His kingdom is an eternal kingdom; his dominion endures from generation to generation” (Dan 4:3). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- We will all face trials in this life. Think of the furnace in the above story as a TRIAL (trial by fire). In the story, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego had to make a stand of faith to serve their God and not give in to the pressure of their time to bow down and worship a false God. For us, we most often didn't get into the furnace by standing on faith as they did. For most of us, we were thrown into the the furnace while we we sleep walking through this thing called marriage and our wife finally said enough is enough. Guys, this is not to punish us, but rather to wake us up and to allow us to be purified like gold (1 peter 1:7). Let me first say that just like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, we are not in the furnace or TRIALS by ourselves, Jesus is in there with us (Deuteronomy 31:8 and Hebrews 12:5). The question is will you acknowledge that he is in the fire with you or will you be too busy screaming for help, whining because the fire hurts, and looking for a way out to even notice Him there with you? But I don't see Him here! But I don't feel His presence, he has forsaken me! God does not lie and His word tells us that is is with us always and that he will never leave us or forsake us. But what if He doesn't do what you want Him to do, are you ok with that? Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego were willing to be thrown into the furnace by choice, by their faith. They believed that their God was able to deliver them but they also by faith, were willing to die in the furnace rather than bow down to the king (Deuteronomy 3:18). Like I said above, the guys in this ministry for the most part didn't have a choice to be thrown into this TRIAL by faith, we woke up in the furnace fighting for our lives. The ministry talks about us dying to ourselves. Are you willing to die in the furnace rather than give into your temptations to tuck your tail between your legs and run as fast as you can away from the fire? Jesus is there with you and if you allow Him to, he will get you through this and His cleaning fire will purify you and mold you into the Christlike man He designed you to be. Then and only then can you become the Man Your Bride Needs You to Be! Guys, in this world you will be asked to compromise. Will you choose to trust God completely like the three men above? God can use the fire from our Trials to make us into Christlike men. If you remember from the story above, the king had them turn up the heat of the fire seven times higher than it's normal heat. Satan also works like this, thinking that if he will just turn up the heat another couple of notches that you will give up and give into his temptations and compromises. But remember that right in the middle of your fire, God is with you, you are unbound and you fire does not consume you. The Bible tells us that our faith will be tested but never more than we can bear (1 Corinthians 10:13). Very few men find God when life is going great, most men find God only in the midst of despair. Last point I want to make is this, you should come out of the fire smelling differently. You should not come out smelling like smoke, or else you got out too early. I think it would be fair to say that we all know someone in our life that has gone through the same situation over and over and over and they still smell like smoke. They constantly jump out of the fire too early and that bad seed wasn't quite dead yet and it resprouts. Am I right? For me that is my brother. He is 3 years older than me and is so so talented. He can play bass guitar, lead guitar and rhythmic guitar like no ones business. He is also a great singer. He has been in rock bands before and almost made it big a couple of times. They toured with Kiss as one point as look alikes. They even opened for At&T and Van Helen. You can still find some of their music out on the web on youtube under 'Villian". Yep, that we their name! They really were rockers to the core. Their "Only Time Will Tell" album was a pretty big hit in Japan and Europe and they were all set to tour for the album's release when he ended up in Jail for possession and intent to sell. They never recovered, the drugs and alcohol brought them down more than once. Then he found Christ. Did great for a year, got a great job paying more than me but ultimately lost it and got divorced a second time. Then he recommitted his life, Got married again and really got into church. Was in the church worship band at a really big and popular church and was well like and loved by all. But again, the alcohol stepped in. The funny thing was that this time, it was a leadership couple at the church that started inviting them over for fellowship and they drank wine with dinner often. Somehow, even after years of AAA, he and his new wife justified drinking just one glass here and there. Well, one led to two and then three and well, you get it. Down he fell again. This time we talked him into going into Youth for Christ rehab program. It was a one year commitment. After about 3 months, he started getting weekend passes. He complained a lot about the facility and the people and how bad it was. I knew in my soul that he was going to fall again and he did not make it 6 months. This time he ended up in an emergency room with alcohol poisoning and came very very close to dying. This of course changed him once and for all, he would never drink again. Seemed promising, got another great job and was starting to see daylight. Only 3 months later, his boss tracked him down and found him passed out in the company vehicle drunk as a skunk. To make a long story short, he is now back into Youth with Christ rehab and has almost completed the full year - will graduate in Aug. He is very involved there and even the leader of their worship band that is touring around to various churches. Has he stayed in the fire long enough to burn those bad roots, I do not know yet but have high hopes but also sense something still wrong in my soul. This may be a bad example because for an alcoholic or a person with any addiction, that bad root may never completely be burnt away. A person in this situation must stay in the fire the rest of their lives to keep the addiction at bay. But my point here is that you must let the fire consume you, purify you and take you to the cross or you will never change.... God Bless - hope this helps someone - was on my heart this week! References 1 Peter 1:7 (AMP) | In Context | Whole Chapter - So that [the genuineness] of your faith may be tested, [your faith] which is infinitely more precious than the perishable gold which is tested and purified by fire. [This proving of your faith is intended] to redound to [your] praise and glory and honor when Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One) is revealed. Deuteronomy 31:8 New International Version (NIV) - "The Lord himself goes before you and will be with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged.” Hebrews 13:5 New International Version (NIV) - "Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you, never will I forsake you.” Joshua 1:5 New International Version (NIV) - "No one will be able to stand against you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you. 1 Corinthians 10:13 New International Version (NIV) - "No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it."

Think about this men. Joel has said this on the men's calls many times. Most men that come into this ministry and only last a few months. This is because after about three to six months of walking this out, they get frustrated because they are not yet seeing the reaction they want from their wives. They say this isn't working and they let their selfishishness take over and they walk away from the ministry and their marriage and they move on because "this is too hard" and/or "this hurts too much". Think about your wife and how long she hung on to the marriage unhappy, hurting, and in a sense lonely because you were not meeting her needs and putting her first. Most of these guys that come here have been married 15 to 25 years before their wife finally had enough and decided enough is enough. So seriously, a man can't handle 2 years of walking this out like the ministry asks? The answer to that question is YES, a man can. The problem is that most of the men that end up here are not MEN, they are toddlers who never really grew up and learned how to become a MAN. They throw selfish tantrums when they don't get their way and they pretty much do as they please and hope they get away with it one more time. When they don't they apologize but then do it again and again because they can. These so called MEN do not have the patience or discipline to walk this out. But why wouldn't a MAN want to walk this out after loosing his wife? Well, he did find the ministry so he must want to win his wife back, correct? Most of the men that find their way here, at first anyways, do want to win their wives back but for all the wrong reasons. They want their wife back because they feel lonely and miss her, they might be embarassed to friends and family, they might miss "mommy" taking care of them, or many other reasons. These guys have not come to grips yet with the fact that they married the RIGHT woman and that she is not crazy for any other reason than they made her that way. These guys do not take responsibility for what they have done to the marriage and they do not appreciate or understand the fact that their wife lasted 10 to 20 times longer than she will need to in order to win her back... Only when a guy is able to understand and take 100% responsibility is he able to muster up the strength and the courage and the endurance that it will take to win her heart back. But that will not be enough in itself, he must also submit himself to God and set out on a journey to put God first in his life. He must walk this out because God is calling him too or it will not work. If he puts winning his wife back before putting God first, he will not be able to succeed. Don't get me wrong, he may manipulate her, manipulate the circumstances, push, pull and tug and get her to give him another chance but it will never last because he didn't change. He will fall back into this old ways eventually and she will leave him again and this time, she will not be winnable - she will be done and justifibly so...... You may also choose to walk this out and not win her back but that too is ok, because if you have put God first and not your wife, you will come out the other side a new man in Christ and as a side benefit you will also be a better ex-husband, a better new husband if you remarry, a better son, father, brother, employee, boss, etc..... I still can not believe how much I have grown through this process and I did win my wife back. But guys like Timothy Paul and David who did not win their wives back (yet), have become great men of God and leaders of men. Isn't that a win win? Guys, walking this out is not just a priviledge, it is an honor and a calling from God Himself! What are you going to do?

This is a secular song that my wife pointed out to me and I thought i would share to the men. Even though this song is talking about two people who are not married yet, WE MEN, can still change and be the HUSBAND SHE ALWAYS WANTED US TO BE going forwards: The best line is this: You gotta know how to treat me like a lady Even when I'm acting crazy Tell me everything's alright Dear future husband (Title of Song), Here's a few things You'll need to know if you wanna be My one and only all my life Take me on a date I deserve a break And don't forget the flowers every anniversary 'Cause if you'll treat me right I'll be the perfect wife Buying groceries Buy-buying what you need You got that 9 to 5 But, baby, so do I So don't be thinking I'll be home and baking apple pies I never learned to cook But I can write a hook Sing along with me Sing-sing along with me (hey) You gotta know how to treat me like a lady Even when I'm acting crazy Tell me everything's alright Dear future husband, Here's a few things you'll need to know if you wanna be My one and only all my life Dear future husband, If you wanna get that special lovin' Tell me I'm beautiful each and every night After every fight Just apologize And maybe then I'll let you try and rock my body right Even if I was wrong You know I'm never wrong Why disagree? Why, why disagree? You gotta know how to treat me like a lady Even when I'm acting crazy Tell me everything's alright Dear future husband, Here's a few things You'll need to know if you wanna be My one and only all my life (hey, baby) Dear future husband, Make time for me Don't leave me lonely And know we'll never see your family more than mine I'll be sleeping on the left side of the bed (hey) Open doors for me and you might get some kisses Don't have a dirty mind Just be a classy guy Buy me a ring Buy-buy me a ring, babe You gotta know how to treat me like a lady Even when I'm acting crazy Tell me everything's alright Dear future husband, Here's a few things You'll need to know if you wanna be My one and only all my life Dear future husband, If you wanna get that special loving Tell me I'm beautiful each and every night Future husband, better love me right Read more: Meghan Trainor - Dear Future Husband Lyrics | MetroLyrics You Tube Link: https://youtu.be/3x6Lq0wAhv0

What you are missing here is that God has given you an opportunity here to redeem yourself, he led you to this ministry to help you become the man He is calling you to be. You are putting God into a box and saying that you will only do this if He restores your marriage and that is the same selfishness that broke up your marriage to begin with. That is what God wants to heal you from but you are so quick to argue and reject because you think you have this all figured out but you don't - how do you not see that? Remember what I previously said, about the hurt you have given your wife. Your not taking responsibility for it because if you were, you wouldn't be here complaining or worrying about what she was or was not doing. You would be here asking what your doing wrong and asking for help on how to heal her, not blamming, not being resentful..... You are called to love your wife with AGAPE love, unconditional love. Yet you are laying out conditions. Don't you see it?

I wrote a long post here today and then it was gone. Will try again tomorrow. It was great talking with you on the men's call last night with Joel, David and Tim. Hope you feel encouraged and loved. Hang on brother, this too will pass. Think back to other times in your life where things were tough and out of control - this too will pass - the question is will you come out on the other side bitter and angry at God or Blessed and Christlike, regardless of what happens with your wife. Remember, God gives us all free will, not just your wife. What do you choose this day.

Update please, how are things going? Are you staying focused on being Christlike and Unconditional Love or are you letting your mind focus on how unfair this is? The Bible tells us to take every thought captive - so it's ok if the negative thoughts pop-in, just don't dwell on them. Push the negative thoughts out and rebuke them in the name of Jesus! Let us know how things are going?

So where is the letter - have you even started it yet, it's almost been two weeks?

i once head a story where a man bought a glass heart and then kept it in his shirt pocket to remind him to be gentle with his wives heart. What a reminder and great image of just how fragile a womans heart can be when they give it over to us, expecting that we will honor and cherish it - not stomp all over it or play catch with it........ Food for thought!

Why have you not responded to this question - do you want help or do you just want to complain? FromHimToHer is a great resource and you should be quick to take it.......

Hey everyone, Just checking in to say HI and give an update. Things are still going very very well with my wife and I being back together. I have to admit that it has not been completely easy - it has taken work and commitment on my part to not fall back into my old ways. Trust me when I say that there was one day recently where my flesh wanted to cry out foul! Thankfully, I was able to do what I learned early on in this ministry and that is taking it to the Lord and not vomiting on my wife. I was able to step away and go on a walk and talk, no yell, at God about what I was feeling. God listened and he brought the situation into light for me and he gave me peace and understanding and a great big hug too. God is my source of Life and Strength and I am hers - that is God's design! Last night, I went to a SLEEP CENTER to get tested for "sleep apnea"! Didn't take them more than a couple of hours to put me onto a cpap machine, they said I stopped breathing like 4 times an hour and snore very loudly. It took a couple of hours to get adjusted to the machine and find the right mask before I could really sleep. I think I fell asleep about midnight and slept pretty much straight through until 6am except for a few wires getting crossed. I am felling pretty good today. My wife was so thankful this morning that I went and did the tests. She was not at all surprised of the results, after all, she sleeps with me every night. Oh, this was not a new problem, it has been going on for years - all the tossing and turning and snoring. Since she has been home, she has made me go sleep in the spare room when it gets bad and sometimes all night if she has to be up real early or needed a good nights rest - this was part of the frustration I was having earlier that I mentioned. I understood but my mind started telling me she was pulling away, she didn't love me, she was - well you get the drift. All of those stupid thoughts were straight from the pits of hell - so not true. In fact, she loved me so much and she just wanted me to get some help and to not have my problem affect her anymore. I am so thankful that my wife has learned not to accept mediocrity from me anymore, that she is willing and able to stand up for herself. Last night I got help and she was so so thankful for it this morning - we ended up having an incredible conversation and time together before I had to pull it together and get to work. I do find it so weird that I never picked up on her ques, her hints and her out right requests in the past to get this taken care of - guess I was pretty clueless. Now I'm looking forward to sleeping with my baby and being more of a blessing to her than a curse. Here is to living with my wife in understanding!

Chris, Please continue to be on the men's call and listen to the counsel given and be teachable. There is no magic pill to make your wife respond but you and you alone control the future of your family with the choices that you make from this point forward. Will you be their source of life or will you be their source of stress and grief? You can't wrap relationships up in "to do" lists. It is so much more than that, so be careful. Yes, "to do" lists are important and it is part of being in any relationship but you must remember that your wife could hire a handyman or a maid to do most of the things you can do for her. But she can't hire someone to wait on her every word, to give her hugs-smiles-kisses-compliments, to be counting the seconds until they can be with her, and to miss her, crave her and to love her unconditionally. That is your job! Walking out what this ministry teaches in not easy, it is a choice. You get to choose to listen, you get to choose whether or not to follow the advise that you will receive both here on the forum and on the mens call. When someone asks you to do something or makes a suggestion that you do something or requires you to do something, you will always get to choose. Life is full of choices and there are consequences to those choices. You have made all your own choices in your adult life up to this point. Some of which you are proud of, some which have nearly destroyed you, and some which you don't even know why you did what you did. Nonetheless, they are your choices. Others also are affected by our choices, so the consequences of our choices are almost never in isolation. Your wife also has choices. You cannot choose for her. You cannot control her. She has to choose for herself. The sooner you get this concept, the better all of your relationships will be: with God, with yourself, with wife, with family, with everyone. The choice is yours. Once the choice is made, the rest it easy, you just have to walk it out! God Bless, Tony

So glad to hear your positive, life giving, Christlike initiations are reaping positive reactions from your lovely bride - strange how that works, loll! Keep it up brother!

It is so true. I see my wife now and see how much she just desires to feel wanted, needed, and desired by me. I try to always be flirting with her and making sure that she knows I desire her and miss her. What an honor and privilege that God has given us.... ie: all of these things mentioned are in the realm of initiation, we initiate, they react by feeling loved and adored! Love the quote ChooseLove, Thank You!

I agree with David, You are making this WAY more complicated than it really is. God is a God of order. If we keep his order, our life is in order. Each of us is different and we must search ourselves for our motives. For me, there came a time in my journey where I backed off from making posts or even bringing up things on the men's call. I felt like I needed to get closer to God, so that He could be my source of life and not the ministry. Don't get me wrong, being on the men's calls, forums and getting encouragement at times was a necessity but I had to make sure that I didn't make that my source of renewal, validation and strength - that ultimately had to come from God or else I would never be able to stand on my own without the ministry once my wife returned. Hope that makes sense. Your still at the beginning of your journey but what I just explained will make more sense as you continue (did you hear that, "as you continue") to walk this out.....

Guys, this could be any of us. God brings us to this ministry so that we can learn to step up and out of our crap (excuse the language). Most of us end up here out of desperation because we have just lost our wives and we say we are willing to do anything to win her back. But why do some men make it and some men don't, we are all clueless? I truly believe it is because of lack of understanding, lack of commitment but mostly lots of selfishness. Those men that make it through this ministry understand that their marriages fell apart because they tore it apart. They take responsibility for ALL the pain and suffering that they themselves, as well as all others, have put their wives through - they get it! The wife is their mirror and she reflects back what she is given. She responds, he initiates - it is the way God created us! The men that make it through this ministry understand that their wives are a gift from God himself and that they have both the honor and the privileged of laying down their lives for her, just as Christ laid down His life for us. I write this response because I know that if I did not choose to walk this out, I would too would have ended up unemployed and full of bitterness towards my wife and towards God. We all have free will, God will not make us follow him but "for me and my house, we will serve the lord".... Joshua 24:15...... Don't let this be you!