hopefulwife

Things are not good. The only difference between 2011 and 2012 is that I don't scream and yell to get his attention and so he doesn't walk out the door. We are like roommates living together. We hardly speak to each other. He is not a safe place. He often cuts me down and then asks forgiveness later. The bummer part of all this is my 9 year old daughter, my husband's step daughter would be broken hearted if we split up. Just think if my husband would have stuck with this we would be into our 4th year and would most likely have an OHM. I listen in on the calls from time to time and I give regularly to the ministry but my husband isn't involved anymore. He actually hung up the last time we were talking with John on the phone. Poor him. I am not even worth a phone call which I've told him several times. He is leaving for San Diego tomorrow to see his family and I can't wait. Alone time... In the past this has been an issue because of finances and it's the only place we've ever gone for vacation but this time I'm just glad for a break.

You could also call into the couples calls in the evenings and if it's slow and no couples are speaking up then you could share and they could direct you also.

Just to keep you all updated, my H and I are attending the intensive June 6th through June 10th. We did attend an intensive with M&A last June 2011 in California. Hopefully the 2nd times a charm because I'm not doing a 3rd. Please pray for us. Thanks. Hopeful.

Thank you ladies for the support. It's been a life saver. Looney, I will definitely take you up on the Friday night calls. Someone said, and I can't remember who, that my thread should be moved so my husband can't see what I'm going to do as far as the next steps. His name is "lifegiver" HA HA. But I really don't want him to get on here and read anymore about what's going on in my life. Not that he ever would for goodness sake, he only posted once after a year of begging him too. Thanks. H And Crystal, thanks for the encouragement. I have never felt so bad as last night. I really did want to check myself into a hospital but I know my EX-Husband would use it against me to get custody of my 7 year old daughter. (I'm not talking about Life-giver, but my EX)

I would love to come see you. And thanks for you the prayers. I will need them. I live right only I5 between Salem and Eugene. Thank you everyone for your prayers and please continue if you think of me.

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Well D. was going to post on the forum last night but read my post about our bump in the road and has decided not to bless me anymore. He is dug into his man cave and is staying. He was saying a bunch of mean stuff this morning and I just plugged my ears and told him to get out. He kept talking and I kept plugging. Very nice morning as I'm home again from work because I don't feel good. I have locked the tv's and I'm taking the controllers to the xbox and I'm also taking the laptop. It is his b/day today and I had a nice evening planned but that's not going to happen. He again did this for 4 days until it came time for him to die to self and he couldn't do it. He indeed does not love me. The proof is in his actions. Hopeful

So we are having a major bump in the road & need help. One of the major hurts in me from my marriage started on our honeymoon. Somehow we decided we would go to San Diego where D is from to visit all his relatives and friends. We actually stayed with his parents for some of our honeymoon. (mind you, D & I hadn't had sex before we got married) The honeymoon was all about what he wanted to do and who he wanted to see. We have never taken a vacation together except for going to San Diego to see his family and one time to Montana to vacation with his family on some property of theirs. (we've been married 3 1/2 years) He also has left me and the family many times to go to San Diego for the holidays. The worst time was a month after my dad died and I was told by D that I wasn't welcome. He said if I went he would stay home. This last Christmas he went to visit during the Christmas break and he knew his father & one of his brothers would be gone watching a hockey tournament but he went anyway instead of waiting for a better time. The couple of times I have gone with him we don't do anything together as a couple. It's all about his friends & his family. My 7 year old, D's step-daughter who is 7 1/2 hasn't gone with us yet to SD. Last summer he went to Montana with his older brother to spend sometime together so he and I didn't do anything. After our Intensive in June 2011, D stayed and spent time with his family and I went back home back to work. I couple weeks later he flew back down to SD for a cousin's wedding. I stayed home. Last summer, I wanted to go to SF to stay with my Aunt and Uncle & visit my cousins and so some things together there but that didn't happen. I've been suggesting that for over 3 years. I also would like for us to go to Alaska to see the other side of my family for a summer vacation but that hasn't happened either. Now, skip to D's daughter who is 18 1/2. She lived with us during our marriage and just recently moved back to SD. She went to visit last Thanksgiving & never came back. I thought she was living with her mother but she is actually living with D's parents. She has lived with them on and off her whole life. (very long long story) While R. was living with us she was allowed to smoke pot, drink, and smoke. She also was allowed to stay home from school. We actually had police officers come visit our home & call too telling us R didn't to be in school or D would be in serious trouble. She was allowed to drop out of school & she did get her GED. She constantly lied and wasn't where she said she would be. She had a friend B. that we eventually had to stop her from seeing. B's parents too didn't allow R to hang out anymore. I could go on and on about her behavior but I think you get the picture. She also was told since the age of 16 while living with us to get a job which she didn't try to get. I did get her a job at the local convenient store but she just stopped showing up for work and got fired. Now she is at her grandparents and still hasn't gotten a job and is not going to school. I'm assuming she gets all her support from them as I know she is driving their rig to get to her friends houses, etc. and to do everything else teenagers like to do. I know we don't send D's parents any money. I get tired of D saying "I used to see my family 3 and 4 times a year." He's married now. Things aren't the same as when he was single. I do feel for him with his family being that far away but I'm just lost as to what is right. So now back to a couple weeks ago when D told me, "I just need to get out of her & go see my family". BIG HURT!!!!!!!!!!!! We talked about it & I told him how much it hurt that he didn't say "hey, what about going on a summer vacation to SD to see the sights and take H. and see my family too. During the conversation it was decided that's what we would do. D wants to drive which takes 15-17. Because of my fibromyalgia, I don't think I can make the trip without flying which would be around 250/each person round trip. Now last night, D. says, "since you won't let me go see my family I want to fly R. to Oregon so she can go to B's graduation." (from HS). My chin hit the floor. The ticket would cost around $250. For one thing we have credit card debt around $22000 but we do have around 5000 in our checking account. D isn't working right now either because of an on the job injury. We can't afford to fly R here to Oregon and be able to take a family vacation to see SD. I know that R would be mostly hanging out with B probably drinking and smoking once again. Also, R has no money to help with the ticket because she doesn't have a job. In my opinion, why would should if she can stay free with her grandparents and be provided with a vehicle and spending money. That's a teenagers dream. Again, in my opinion. I did share all this with D. Since we talked about it he has been moping around. I feel like he is about to crawl into his man cave. He has given me 3 compliments all the same, "you look nice". I'm in my housecoat for pity sake, home sick from work. I thought I had Mono but the blood test came back negative. The doctor & I really thought I did have it because I have all the symptoms. Maybe it's my fibro flaring up. (didn't mean to get side tracked). So that's where we stand. D wants to fly R here to Oregon and I'm not sure it's a good idea because of the cost and other circumstances. But then I'm afraid I might feel that way because of the major hurt vacations have caused. Please help.

Thanks MaryJane. Saturday went well. He fixed me some breakfast as I was getting ready for our day. There were some tense situations that came up during the day but they were resolved quickly. Mostly they involved him getting frustrated because he was in pain because of his injured neck. Since his injury at work, I have had issues because to me he seems to push himself all week (he doesn't work right now) with his agenda and then on the weekends when I am home, he is worn out. I have spoken with him in the past & told him how it makes me feel. He started to act like he wanted to go home on Saturday because of all the pain and I shared again how he wears himself out all week with his friends & the work he does outside & on the cars and then when it comes to me it seems it doesn't matter. But he listened as I tried to explain and I felt like he heard me & he was able to make it through. We both felt like going home early so we did. Oh, I should back up to Friday evening. We went to dinner with my family for my sister's b/day. Afterwards, we stopped by and picked up the movie "The Vow". I had seen it before but I wanted him to see it & I loved watching it again. As we were preparing to start the movie I picked up his phone. I can't really remember why I did, I think maybe it was to look at a picture I knew he had taken of one of the kids. I noticed Donny getting really nervous. After a minute or so he asked what I was doing. I just said I'm looking at pictures. But I could see he hated me looking at his phone. I asked why he was so tense & he said I just feel like you are going to ask about all of the phone numbers and who they belong too. That didn't sit well with me at all. Why does a guy get nervous when there is nothing to hide? I wouldn't care at all if he went through every one of my texts or phone numbers. I do notice he doesn't have many text messages which I think is odd. I would like to approach that topic with him again, but with help on the call and not on my own. Donny got a phone call during the movie & answered it which hurt my feelings. I have a hard time knowing if my feelings get hurt so easy because I'm not healed up or because something happens that would hurt anyone feelings. Even after all he did Friday I still got my feelings hurt when he took the call. (is that a normal thing or not) I did explain to him after he hung up & he listened. We had talked about making love after the movie so when the movie was over & asked if he was going to take a shower. (he doesn't want to have sex unless I've taken a shower even if I've taken one just a few hours earlier in the day). He said I want to see the scores of the NBA games 1st, why don't you go take a shower 1st. Again, it hurt my feelings because he just wasn't that into it. And...it had been over 2 weeks since we'd been together. I thought he'd be all over it but he wasn't. So I just went off to bed. Again, even after blessing me all day Friday I got my feelings hurt again. UGH!!!!!!!!!!!!! Saturday evening he did remember it was time to get on the call. I praised him like crazy. He listen for over an hour as Steve talked with a couple. D mentioned how much he can learn just listening to other couples. I wanted to look at him and say "DUH!!!!" but of course didn't. I had a good mother's day for the most part. There were a couple of very tense moments in the truck between D and our daughter H who is 7. H is D's step-daughter and they have an awesome time together. A lot of the time they play like two seven year olds, (D has ADHD so it's easy for him to do so) and it's hard for H to know when D is playing & when she needs to obey what he is saying. It is also hard for D to hear H and her boundaries and to stop when she says "STOP". I later tried to explain to him but he argued and blamed and I just walked out of the room. Earlier that day they had taken me to the Road House, one of my favorite places to eat, which is about 40 minutes away. I have been eating a certain way but decided to have my favorite bread and butter that day. We asked for some extra during the meal & we were able to take 3 pieces home with us. I took a nap later that day and when I got up & was going to have my leftovers. I went to get a piece of bread and all 3 had been eaten.... by D. HOLY COW to say the least. My feelings were SOOOOOOOOOO hurt. I got angry and told him how inconsiderate that was. I went back to my room and just sat there to cool off. Later he said sorry & asked what he could do. I told him I wanted him to understand how that made me feel. I tried to explain but I really don't think he got it. I have a hard time knowing what to keep inside and what to try and explain to him. I am a very tenderhearted person to begin with & have a lot of hurt from him that hasn't been healed. If fact we are starting all over again but it hasn't been healed at all even after the intensive which has caused more hurt. I know I've heard to try and just share 1 out of 3 things. I guess I will bring this up on the call tonight so I can get help with that. Thanks again for listening. I am going to try and help D get setup on the forum tonight also. He hasn't started because he needs help getting started. Hopeful

I did it. I asked D to get on the phone last night with J&S and he was more than willing. AMEN!!!! They are both so good. They both spoke to D like they crawled inside my heart & soul and knew my every thought. He took it very well. I think for the 1st time over the last year from our intensive he is starting to understand how much my heart is broken. Last night I was at the point of the crossroad. He was either doing this or I was DONE. My top 3 needs we talked about last night on the call are as follows: 1) 3 phone calls a week. Thursday with J&H Saturday with J&K and Monday night with Looney & Tim. 2) 10 Hugs, Kisses & Compliments a day. (10 total not 10 each) (that's the tenderness in me) 3) Post in the forums 3 times a week. He says he is on board and even sounds excited to heal my heart. I want to stop hurting and heal too. The rejection of not feeling like he loved me is too much for me to handle. It's been my issue starting on our honeymoon. I am excited and yet at the same time guarding my heart and peeking over a little at a time. I hope to one day tear it all down but it will have to be moment by moment for now. He did so well with blessing me over the call and this morning before work too. He made me a fruit shake for breakfast for me to take to work. (he is not working right now because he is injured) He came in the shower with me this morning too, and just held me. I was very much guarded because I don't allow him to shower with me, (long long story and part of the hurtful words he has used in the past) but all in all it went okay. He told me twice before I left for work that I looked beautiful. He has called me twice at work this morning already, thank goodness it's a bit slow, to see how I was and told me he loves my tender heart (he has never told me that before) so WOW!!!! He also asked what I thought about him buying some shorts and tee-shirts which made me feel like what I thought was important to him and so I must be important also. He went to eat with a friend for lunch and forgot his cell phone so he called me with his friend's cell phone to let me know and gave me the number in case I needed him. Tomorrow he and I will get on the forum and sign him up. (computers are sometimes hard for him) We are planning on spending a lot of time together this weekend. And it's SUNNY here in RAINY Oregon so we will both be getting some much needed Vitamin D. YEAH!!!!!!!!!! Thanks to all of you. I would be separated and most likely divorced if it wasn't for all of you. May God Bless each of you richly. Hopeful Wife

Thank you Looney. I really don't know what I would do without this ministry. (go insane is what I would do) It helps so much to have my feelings validated even if it's not from my husband. I am praying about doing this Thursday night on the phone call with J&S. It's the only safe place I have right now. Here we go......

Pink, I too follow your story and I have also heard you both on the calls. I ditto what Looney is saying. I do think there might be a glimmer of hope that God can get a hold of him through J&K's ministry; but you need to do what they advise. He needs to stay away until he starts walking this out consistently for a time period. It's what husbands needs most; for you, his bride, to be his helpmeet and hold his feet to the fire. There needs to be consequences for him and he needs to know you aren't going to keep doing this relationship over and over. He doesn't get it and NEVER will until he starts to feel pain by the consequences you give him. Praying for you. HW

Hey Palmer, I wonder always about your Thursday night CR you go to. Or do you still play basketball once a week? What about your other class in Eugene? Do you still attend. Before you guys had the baby you seemed to be a very busy husband. I often wondered myself how Grace dealt with all your "outside" commitments. Is there a time when you give Grace downtime? What does she do for herself? Any exercising for her, time away with girlfriends or family by herself? Just wondering I hope all is going better.

Okay everyone, I joined Qivana and ordered my product. I will also take a picture (ugh) of myself and take measurements, and then join the "Shake yourself Slim" contest. My husband was going to do the program with me but he doesn't need to lose as much as I do (20ish lbs) and we couldn't afford it right now for both of us. I have 125ish lbs to lose. I have tried many many diets and weight loss programs and have always failed. Some of them worked for a while but then I always gained the weight back. I was thin and athletic in high school and didn't have a weight problem until after my first two daughters were born. When I was pregnant with my 3rd child, at the age of 40, the doctors discovered I had a thyroid issue. I am now taking replacement therapy but it is still very hard to lose weight, not to mention I am approaching my 50 year old b/day. (I guess age has something to do with NOT losing weight) It's hard for me to exercise because I have degenerative arthritis in both knees, so walking is very painful. I do have a bike in the house that I can use, so I really have no excuse. When it doesn't rain (gotta love the Oregon weather) I do ride my trike recumbent bike which is very comfortable and doesn't hurt my knees. I'm learning that I need to love myself enough too lose the weight. My last pregnancy at age 40, I developed gestational diabetes and had to go on a strict eating plan. I started eating the correct way the day I found out I had it. I didn't go off of it until my daughter was born. I even lost 38lbs during my pregnancy so I can lose weight when it's for someone else and their well being. So, that's what I mean about loving myself enough to do this. My issues of not thinking I was worth anything started when I was in the 2nd grade, and my brother started sexually molesting me. It went on until he moved out of the house and by then I was in the 10th grade. Then I married a guy at age 21 who I thought would "take care of me" and be a good guy. He brought porn over to our newly rented apartment when we were unpacking gifts we received at a wedding shower. It was two weeks before we were to get married, and I was still a virgin. That has always been a goal for me growing up. (I'm not sure why that matter to me after what my brother did to me). Anyway, my fiance and I hadn't had sex together yet and I didn't understand the porn. Don't get me wrong, we did do about everything else but sex. We did get married and for 14 years I allowed his behavior to go on. I didn't know any better and thought this must be normal. We never ML that I can remember. It was sex, and all about the porn we were watching and the porn stars, or my two younger sisters, or our babysitters. I would just go "to my other room" in my mind until it was over, then I didn't think about it much until the next time. It wasn't until I was 34 years old and started dealing with the molestation from my brother that I realized I was being abused by my then, current husband. Long story short, we got divorced. By then he was going to strip joints and paying $75 a session for two girls to give him a private session, alone in an enclosed room. He didn't think he had a problem with anything and refused to get help and I refused to be married to him. My story continues but I'm not going to go into that. I still have severe self worth issues or so I've been told. My emotions have a tendency to get stuff way down inside and I have a hard time even explaining or expressing my or knowing what my feelings are. I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 1999 and I am hoping this product will help me feel better, not be so tired, and help me lose weight. I would appreciate your prayers, encouragement, and accountability as I go on this journey. [smilie=happy.gif] Thank you all. HW

Thank you for that insight. I hadn't thought of the homework in that regard. I will start initiating more in that area. I wanted to let everyone know my husband did great on our anniversary. He called me at work and asked if I could get off work and hour early. I did and he had a massage therapist waiting for me at home. He had the house cleaned up, candles lit and music playing softly in the background. While I got a 2 hour massage, he helped the husband of the lady giving me the massage entertain their 3 year old daughter. They stayed outside so the house would be relaxing. Afterwards he took me to dinner and gave me an anniversary card. (I think he has given me one card in the last 3 years of marriage) When we got home he didn't feel good so we didn't ML but just cuddle some. (I'm still trying to teach him what cuddling looks like) It was an AWESOME night and we both enjoyed hanging out and being with each other. What I difference from our last 2 anniversaries. Last night after we got our 7 year old daughter to bed, we took showers, (separately), and we going to ML. He is leaving today for a vacation to Montana with his brother and will be gone for 6 days. So, we wanted to ML before he left for his trip. My favorite thing to "get started", is to kiss passionately and he knows this, or at least he should because I've told him so many many times. He isn't much of a kisser, or hugger, or really touchy at all so he really has to remember that's what I need. When we started kissing he said "Oh man, you need a breath mint". Well, I know this is an issue for him, everything has to be "fresh and clean" to do any kind of loving making so I had already put a piece of gum in my mouth. That was it for me, I couldn't get the mood back. I became physically irritated with everything he tried, I was emotionally and sexually frustrated. I just shut down. He apologized of course, for his comment, and asked what I needed. I asked if we could just cuddle and we tried, but he really doesn't even know what that looks like. I tried to show him AGAIN, what I meant by cuddling but his body was ridged and I just said, let's forget it and got up and went in the other room. I'm not sure if shutting down like that is normal or not, but I just couldn't get it back together. Usually I am the one needing or wanting to ML. He seems to go longer than I can bear. It seems to be getting harder for me to be in the mood because I really like to kiss and he wants to skip that part, and because this is my 3rd husband there are other things that can get me "in the mood" and he actually expects me to perform those things to him but he REFUSES to reciprocate. We actually talked to Michael and Annalea about the problem at our intensive in June 2011, but so far it hasn't happened. (goodness, didn't mean to go into all of this) Thanks for listening. HW

Okay. Today is our 3rd anniversary. I will let you all know how he does. I have been reminding him (helpmeet) for the last three days that our anniversary is today. This morning he was almost out the door before I reminded him, "hey, it's our anniversary, you gonna say anything". He felt bad, blamed it on the ADD. But then gave me kisses and hugs and told me "Happy anniversary". I wanted to kill him but refrained. I didn't respond with a rigid body. I took the hugs and kisses and was grateful. The last two anniversaries we weren't even speaking too each other. So if I look at it that way it's a great improvement. ::clap I'm still working on helping him with the 20/20/20/20. I'm not sure he'll ever reach that. The book reading doesn't happen everyday, in fact it's been over a week since we've read it together, the DVD series have only been watched twice since our June 2011 intensive, I get on the calls and listen about 3 times a week or more, but I don't believe he does. We even give to the ministry so he could get on the men's calls with Joel. I do believe he has Joel's phone number. And he has never been on the forum. Hummm, didn't mean to say all this but I guess it was buried down in my spirit somewhere. Maybe I need to have a reminder conversation with him about this all. I do see much improvement since the intensive though, so that's awesome. I do wish he would figure out what he could do to help his ADD though. I think it would help a lot of areas in our marriage. HW

Where did you guys go? I haven't seen you on the forum or heard you on the calls? I hope everything is going okay. HW

You just say, you are so right honey. I so appreciate you helping me remember to be in God's word daily. Don't engage and try to explain anything. Just listen to your wife's heart. That's it, listen. HW

CJ, Of course your wife feels that way. I am sure EVERY other avenue you've tried to restore you marriage has put the most pressure on your wife. You see, they all see the husband trying and coming clean with their issues and then they turn to the wife and say, "it's time for you to submit". But they do nothing about healing the wife's heart from the abuse over the last 24 years in your case. I would encourage you to talk to your wife about this ministry and affirm to her that it's NOT her fault. Tell her you've learned from being in the forum that it is TOTALLY your fault and that this ministry won't be pointing the finger at her and that she can take as long as she needs to heal her heart. I mean, this has been going on for 24 years, and because you are sober for 22 months she is expected not to be angry, resentful and bitter. Okay CJ, here goes. You know you have all kinds of support. There are phone calls EVERY night of the week except for Friday nights. There are 3 men's calls a week. There's the forum, you have M&A and J&K phone numbers when you are in an emergency. You can read the books and watch the DVD's. This is the only marriage ministry that is available to us 24/7. You will get all the help you need if you reach out. But so far you haven't. It's been almost 4 months since the intensive and you haven't stayed plugged in. THAT IS A MUST IF YOU WANT THIS TO WORK!!!! So how desperately to you want an OHM???? You can't just sit back and do nothing and hope things change. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. YOU have to be the one that goes first. NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING will change until you start to bring healing to your wife by being a Christ-like husband God has called you to be. I hope you are committed to bringing healing and becoming the man of God because since the intensive I doubt there was much action to back this up. To wives, talk is cheap, we need to see actions. Did you do the 20/20/20/20 everyday, did you read the books daily, did you get on the calls once or more a week, did you get on the forum, did you watch the DVD's???? And it didn't matter if your wife wasn't will to participate, you could've done that all by yourself and she would have observed your 100% commitment to this ministry. I'm sure over the 24 years of marriage you have gotten advice for your marriage & tried it for a few weeks and then just stopped it all. Not that those things would have helped, but she probably thinks you aren't going to walk this out 100% until she is healed and then the rest of your lives. I'm sure she doesn't trust you to do that. And you CAN'T hurry the process. Like I said before, you've done this for 24 years, it might take some time for her. So that is great start to bring healing to your marriage, 22 months being sober. Keep being transparent in everything you do. If your wife has 20 questions to ask you about your job or working out of your home office, please let her ask. And please do not act like, man I've been sober for 22 months why all this. Just let her ask and then let her know whenever she needs to ask again that you will be there to answer any doubts she has. In fact I think you should encourage her to ask you until she starts to get healing. I hope you are available for her during your work hours also. Of course she said she doesn't want you to contact her. If I remember right, she wanted you to come home and you didn't. What else could she do but to react and tell you not to contact her. YOU NEED TO ASK JOEL, BUT I THINK HE TELLS HUSBANDS WHEN WIVES TELL THEM NOT TO CONTACT THEM, HE DOES WANT YOU TO SEND A TEXT TELLING THEM YOU ARE THINKING OF THEM, ETC. Please talk to Joel about what he thinks about you staying away from home. It is so much EASIER to bring healing to your wife if you can live with her. It is very hard to do the 20/20/20/20 along with every other way you are to bring healing to your wife when you aren't living with each other. Living outside the home will make the process longer. She needs to see your DAILY commitment to walking this out. If you do go home CJ, I would highly recommend you talk to your wife and let her know how sorry you are for always telling her she needs to get help. Tell her you've learned that this is ALL you and that you will never point the finger at her and neither will the ministry. Tell her that you want her to vent and get out all the garbage in her heart that YOU have put there. . Tell her that you WON'T respond, or blame, or defend, but that you will be quiet and just listen. Tell her are praying for a "Christ-like sorrow" so you feel the exact same pain that you have caused in her. Tell her you aren't going to leave but that you are in this 100% until she is healed from what YOU did to her. Tell her whatever it takes, you are there for her, whatever that looks like to her. Try to validate her feelings, they aren't right or wrong CJ, they just are. It does so much to the fire within us when a husband just validates. It's like the fire dies down some with each validation that happens. She needs to know that you understand why she is acting this way and that you don't blame her, and that she can take as long as she needs to heal. And then tell her that you've learned that NO ONE else can bring healing to her expect for YOU. Tell her that you are going to lay your life down for her and start being the Christ-like husband God has called you to be by AGAPE loving her and tell her you don't EXPECT ANYTHING IN RETURN. You do have an incredible, beautiful wife and I hope you tell her that over and over again, everyday. And I could tell she loved the Lord and wants to be that wife God has called her to be but it starts with you CJ, you go first. And, you are one lucky husband if your wife does show you love in the midst of all of her pain. I hope you compliment her when she does show you love. Tell her what an awesome thing that is and that is going above what she is called to do right now and that you appreciated it. I know this is a lot CJ. But you can do this. Stay in God's word, pray and get support from the men in this ministry so you can withstand whatever your wife NEEDS to bring at you. You're wife is angry, resentful and bitter and has every right to be and it's going to be tough for you when she starts puking it all out, but please let her. Really listen, validate, try to understand, don't talk, don't engage, don't argue with her, then apologize for hurting her so badly and making her feel that way, and then embrace her if she'll let you. And then tell her to do that all over again whenever she needs too. And all the while if need be just pour your feelings and heart out to God silently in the midst of it all. Afterwards if you need to vent, go vent to God. Tell him all about it and how hard this is and to help you through, but please don't tell her. Remember when Michael told us the first time Annalea vented to him the garbage in her heart? He felt like he was going to pass out. Everything in him was SCREAMING don't do this. But he did and he said every time it got a little easier. Walk this out CJ, every day, every week, every month, every year expecting nothing in return. Do it because you love Christ with all your heart and this is what he has called you to do. Think of when you get to heaven how Jesus Christ will look at you CJ, and say, "Well done, good and faithful servant, because thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will place thee over many things. Enter thou into the joy of thy Lord." Awesome huh???!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please tell your wife hello for me. I have often prayed for you both and was wondering what was happening. In Christ's love, HW

Hey CJinCA, I pretty sure I know who you are. We were at the intensive in June 2011 in CA also. We were the couple in the front on the left-hand side. I believe you two were on the right-side two tables back and I do remember your wife wasn't able to attend the entire time. I wondered what happened to you guys. I got on the calls almost every night for about six weeks after the intensive if even just to listen and I never heard you on the calls. I still get on 1-3 times a week. I remember M&A telling us we MUST MUST keep in touch and do the basic homework if the ministry was going to work. I wonder if you did the 20/20/20/20 every day???? That is huge all on it's own. I heard you on the call the other night and I'm sorry your wife wasn't on. I wish you would have stayed in touch with the ministry. Even if your wife didn't want to she would have seen or heard you calling in just to listen. All of the couples on the calls getting help with their marriage always applied to my husband and I. Also, watching the DVD series we were given by yourself if need be, reading the books by yourself, etc. I know your wife was very very anger, bitter, and resentful towards you. She didn't say much but I could see it on her face & body language. I think, from what I could tell from your conversation on the call, you engage with your wife instead of just listening and taking it, and validating her feelings, you give her "advice" on how to heal herself and your marriage.Believe me, that is just throwing fuel to the fire. There is just something in wives that can't take advice from the husband who so deeply wounded us. Joel was so right when he said that you knew EXACTLY what would happen if you said something that night. Are you sure you didn't say that just for an excuse to move out? I do hope you stay connected and start learning the process of dying to yourself minute by minute, daily. From the sounds of things even if your wife starts to communicate with you she will need a lot of time to vent, yell, scream, whatever. It isn't right, I know that but you need to go first. Just take it, try to validate how things must have made her feel, apologize, and then don't do it again. Hopefully you learned from the intensive that when your wife starts to heal from all the hurts by you loving her in a Christ-like matter all "her issues" will fade away. You won't have to say she needs help anymore. Remember that you are called to "Agape" love your wife which includes loving her without expecting ANYTHING in return and return her to Christ better than she was when you met her. Your motive is to obey what God has called you to do as a husband. Remember also Michael said it takes around 3 years until it really becomes 2nd nature, or a habit for husbands but you have to be 100% committed, not 80, 70, 50 and especially not 50/50. After the healing has happened then that's where mutual submission comes in but not until your wife is healed. The way your wife is acting is only mirroring what kind of husband you have been over the years, we reap what we sow. The choice is yours. You have full control of where this marriage will end-up. It's out of your wife's hands. If after several weeks or months of you walking this out and your wife hasn't improved with her anger, J&K will help her or M&A. That IS NOT for you to do. She won't take that from you, let it be someone else. At the end of the intensive I gave your wife a big hug and she hugged me back. I can tell underneath all of the hurt she is a great lady. I know you can do this. Stay plugged into the ministry; couple calls, men's call, forums, books, DVD's. You should even have Micheal's phone numbers. J&K's numbers are on their website. Donny and I are doing so much better since the intensive. I was ready to walk away but he has brought healing to me. It is still very much a day to day walk for us. He makes mistakes and so do I but there is always someone here to help us. We wake up the next morning and (usually) start over on our way to an OHM. Even if we aren't having issues we still call in and just listen. This ministry does work. I hope this didn't offend you. I just care about marriages and the children involved. Don't let Satan win this one. HW

Wow, what I good idea, scary but good. Claire, I will keep praying for you. It can be so draining to be the helpmeet in the journey to an OHM. I am still learning to come from a place of "strength", like Kathy says, when I respond to my H lack of initiation. The problem we have is my husband says that's for that advice, and then doesn't do much to change. He is very passive and then when I push to hard he turns aggressive. I hear you on the calls and my heart breaks for you. One thing I do at home with my 7-year old daughter, and my 17 year old daughter likes it too, whether my husband is there or not, I turn on some music and dance around everywhere I go throughout the house. Even if I'm in a awful mood it picks me up and my daughter loves it. I have some Christian music and country too on an Ipod and that's what I usually play. God bless you Claire. Praying...... HW

Hi Claire. I haven't heard from you lately. How's everything going. I haven't been on the calls since Tuesday the 13th, so I don't know if you spoke up on the calls or not. Hopefully I will be able to get on tonight. I've been praying for you and your children. HW

Thanks for posting Looney and Eeyore. I appreciate all the advice I can get for a passive husband. I'm not sure if I've said this before but HD reminds me of my husband.

Hey Clair, Any news for us? I keep praying for you. The last I heard was when you were on the conference call telling us about the father in your area who committed suicide. Have you heard from Biff? How are things going? HW