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I am new to this all. I was referred by a friend, and ordered the book (#1) and the DVDs yesterday.


There is so much to our story, I don't know where to begin. Let me just say that hubby and I have been married for 18 years. Ours is like some of the other stories that I have read, my husband is very much a Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde.


He is not physically abusive, but the loneliness that I feel makes me want to die... literally. And I am tired of it.


Things have been really good lately, but something set him off (into his distant/quiet/shut-down self) over a week ago. I have ALWAYS fixed things, dragging stuff out of him, counseling him, being his "mom", and I am not doing it anymore.


I am so glad that I found this site. No longer do I feel completely insane and alone. God has been preparing me for this site for quite a while now, through loving family, through counseling at church, etc. I am ready (maybe?).


I know this sounds pretty scattered. Sorry, I feel pretty disconnected from life right now. I have gotten mad and demanded a change in the past, but I have never taken action in a firm, quiet way before. It is strange. And I am scared.


Anyway, here is the email that I just sent him (at work). I know that it sounds a little harsh, so please be gentle with me. :?





I know that you have a busy day ahead, so I will make this short, but I have some things that I need to say.




1) I am not sure what has caused your latest "mood". We had just come off the best vacation time that we have ever had together, and I cannot figure out what or who caused this current shut down.




2) I have asked you what is going on once already (actually more than once, but all on the same evening). Since I am commited to not "beating a dead horse", I will not ask you again. If you want to talk, you know where I am.




3) You apologized, but I am not sure if either of us knows what that apology was really for. The words "I am sorry" are not enough for me anymore. They need to be included with some conversation, change, some indication that you love me and wish to move forward.




4) I ordered the book, "The Man of Her Dreams, The Woman of His!" by Joel and Kathy Davisson. I will read the book once it arrives, and am asking you to do the same (in a timely manner).




5) I have also ordered the DVDs that accompany the book. I am asking you to watch them, with or without me (in a timely manner).




(* In a timely manner is simply a request that they do not sit on the shelf with the other books which we purchased with great intentions. It applies to both of us, and is not intended to insult or "slam" you in any way. If it hurts, I apologize. I am just trying to set the expectation ahead of time.)




6) I request that you do not "Kiss Me Goodnight" until we make some head-way into whatever is going on. It makes me feel violated. A goodnight kiss is the sign of something which is not existant between us right now. I would appreciate it if you would respect my wishes in this.




7) I ask that you check out, http://www.godsavemymarriage.com/ as well as the forums on www.JoelandKathy.com/boards/.




8) I am seeking help for myself through this website, through loving people, and through our church. I can no longer stand to feel so alone that I want to die.




Thank you,


(my name)"


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Hi there, so glad to meet a friend of loon. Welcome. I know this is scarey but once you step out and stand firm you will get stronger. You will grow through this as well as your husband. Your letter sounds good and to the point, try your best not to waiver. We will guide you through this, so if you feel you can't see clearly that's ok, thats why we are here. Pray that whatever is hidden in darkness will come to light. I don't know if you've read this quote, these are steps we give to get things going. Hang in there. I know as wives we want quick change because we have already been through so much. The process causes true change and not a temporary one.


Welcome to the forum!


Your situation needs addressed with a pretty simple pattern that you will find repeated numerous times throughout this section of the forum.


Be sure to read a lot of articles in the forum to learn these approaches - a good topic to look at is the Pure In Heart topic.


Here are the steps in a nutshell:


1. The easy route: Give him the book to read (the first volume, The Man of Her Dreams/The Woman of His!). Get on the group calls and put it on speaker phone or ask him to listen in on an extension phone. (number and times are on the itinerary page at www.GodSaveMyMarriage.com)


If he does these things, then we and you continue to nurture him along, one step at a time.


2. The hard route: If he refuses to cooperate with the easy route, you take him down the hard road (because he would refuse to read the book and get on calls - or starts to read and then rejects it.


WE HOPE that you do NOT have to take him down the hard road. The easy road is much more nice. Do not decide for him. Give him the book and dial the phone and ask him to listen in. You might be VERY surprised.


If he does reject the book and calls though, then you make the decision as to whether to take him down the hard road or not.


When a man refuses the easy route, a wife has only a couple options:


1. Follow the plan of taking him down the hard route, resulting in a changed man and a marriage restoration in most cases, or in some cases, resulting in the marriage ending.


2. Live in misery either for the rest of your days or until he decides to divorce you because he has a girlfriend and has moved out.


Some women do decide to stay in misery as they are too afraid to take the husband down the hard road.


Read the pure in heart post, and many other topics in this forum though to see the wonderful results of a wife taking a resistant hubby down the hard road.


The hard road IS FOR THE PURPOSE of restoration. We don't validate a wife just kicking her husband out (or divorcing if need be) for the purpose of being divorced. That is simply a second possible end result. The purpose of all of our advice is for an ultimate RESTORATION.


The only thing we cannot determine is this: Will he cooperate with the easy route? It is not fair for anyone to make that decision for him. So, give him the book and dial that phone in his presence. Also, use all of your female instincts and best efforts to lead him gently into reading the book and getting on the calls. This first nice approach should be done with lots of sugar and spice and everything nice.


We want to give him EVERY opportunity to participate in the recovery willingly.


Yes, if he does not "get" the message at first because you are being nice, you can certainly raise the volume so he knows there is a potential crisis brewing - but DO NOT THREATEN him about calling the police and kicking him out. DON'T threaten divorce.


Some women have a hard time kicking a husband out because they refuse to leave.


I was a disaster husband and Kathy never had to kick me out. I was WILLING to TRY. I messed up - and those were messy times - but I would repent and start again and assure her that I was not quitting.


If hubby reads the book and gets on the calls, that is the road you will walk to - and no, it is not easy. It is EXCRUCIATING for all involved. (Read some of Kay's topic for an example of this.)


It is only fair to give hubby that chance first though. if you gave him the nice option and he rejects it, then you are not being mean - you are giving him what HE has chosen.


Love and Blessings!


Joel of Joel and Kathy

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Well, hubby responded nicely to the email that I sent. He is willing to read the book and watch the DVDs. He claimed that he is overwhelmed with work.

I responded that I know that he is overwhelmed by work, but there is more to it than that, as there is a difference in him between just that and when the "switch" gets flipped and he is emotionally gone, not just distracted by work. This may not make sense, but I can see and FEEL a difference in him.

I told him that I will support him in his job, but I will no longer be alone. I told him that he has a choice to make, and that although it will take some work, it will be less work than listening to the messages in his head (telling him that he is not good enough, etc).

I know, I know, here I am counseling him again. It is going to take some practice, especially when things are so obvious to me. LOL


He responded, and said... "the 'switch' is a result of the stress and what starts happening in my head when the stress ramps up. We can talk about it later, but it's basically a bombardment of images and temptations - I will NOT go back that way again, but the battle gets pretty intense and I don't handle it well. That's my growth area..."


So, a least we have a little progress, in the honesty department. He had an addiction to porn for most of our marriage, partly due to being molested by a family member when he was young (like 5 or 6). Although while on vacation, he admitted that he used that (the abuse) as an excuse to keep doing what he did, because he really wanted to do it.

I am in shock that he admitted that to me. I am glad. I knew that the "switch" was not about being tired, or being overwhelmed...

I have no plans to do or say anything further at this point. I will thank him for his honesty, and wait for the book to arrive.

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Good for you sweet sis. Take it slowly. Don't worry about giving him counsel let the books speak to him. I was there. I can't believe after all the talking I did I still have a mouth :roll: Keep us updated. try to get on the call tonight even if you don't speak, just listen.

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Hey there girlfriend! I am so glad you took the plunge! You can't go on as you have been. You will end up loonier than I am, and we'd have to switch usernames. :roll:


Please do get on the call tonight. As I said, you don't have to talk if you don't want to, but you will learn so much by listening. If I didn't have to work tonight I'd be on as well. My hubby had better be on, but that's my thread and not yours.


I know you've read enough here to know that you're not alone. This is a safe place to scream and cry and threaten bodily harm :? and everyone will hold your hand and walk you through it.


You're doing the right thing. Stick to your guns.

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Well, our phone is intermittently dead (both extensions, batteries are shot), so I went out and bought a new one today. It has been in the plan, but I finally did it, so I can get on the call tonight. I told hubby that I was doing it and why (so I could get on a marriage help conference call tonight). I specifically got one that has speakerphone and mute on each handset. Yay!


I have a couple of questions... it seems that sometimes hubbies will start to embrace the information, then will turn away from it. So, if it comes to the point that a wife needs to ask her hubby to leave, wouldn't he know that the whole point of the separation or divorce is reconciliation? Not that it is a big game, as I know that this is serious, but how do you handle it in the early stages, so he knows that you are serious, while he is reading and viewing the same material. It seems like a "secret" or something. (I read in one of the thread that you need to make sure that family or friends, who might have any contact with him, believe that you are very serious about this, so he won't think that you will waiver in things.) Does this make sense? I am not sure how he can read the same info and not know that the whole point is to make him change.

Or is that the point? That he knows that a wife has grounds to ask him to leave, based on emotional divorce which has already occurred, and she is serious. It's kinda confusing so early in things.


Also, how quickly do the materials usually arrive? I don't know (or don't remember) how they ship or how quickly.


Another issue is that I need to figure out how to ask him to do things without being his "mom". There are numerous things that I have asked him to do, which are not getting done... Should I make a list? Remind him? Ignore it all? Leave all the stuff in the middle of the driveway so it is waiting for him when he gets home? :evil: I want to give him space, and I need space, too. But there is stuff that needs to get done, and I am tired of doing it all, and there are things that he has said that he will do. Grrr...


I know, one day at a time... but I have to live with him without doing anything crazy in the meantime. :(


Does anyone else get to this point, and really feel like it is not just about getting his attention any more? I really, really don't want to live this life and am really tired of my marriage. I am afraid of my heart going too far down this path, and truly wanting out. Any suggestions?


Sorry, I know there are lots of questions here. Any help would be appreciated.

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Just my 2 cents - people with more experience will chime in when they can.


Or is that the point? That he knows that a wife has grounds to ask him to leave, based on emotional divorce which has already occurred, and she is serious.


Yes. You've answered your own question.


You should have your stuff pretty quick. I think mine only took a few days to arrive.


If he is changing, he should want to serve you and ask you what you need done. In the meantime, piling everything on his side of the bed is a pretty good hint. :wink:

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Thanks loon for your 2 cents LOL.


So, if it comes to the point that a wife needs to ask her hubby to leave, wouldn't he know that the whole point of the separation or divorce is reconciliation?


Even if he knows, if that moment was to happen he would still react. Try not to think about that until its needed. When a wife has to go that route if done right the guy will break. Unfortunetly there are very few that refuse to turn but it frees the wife from that life.


Another issue is that I need to figure out how to ask him to do things without being his "mom". There are numerous things that I have asked him to do, which are not getting done... Should I make a list? Remind him? Ignore it all? Leave all the stuff in the middle of the driveway so it is waiting for him when he gets home? I want to give him space, and I need space, too. But there is stuff that needs to get done, and I am tired of doing it all, and there are things that he has said that he will do. Grrr...



For some this is the worse part of the process. Joel says not to look at it as being mom. You are being his helpmeet. Think of it this way, all the times you did say something and he didn't listen well now its different because he has no choice or for some they are now listening. Its like starting all over. Trust me it can be so frustrating but worth it if he gets on the ball.


Reward him when he puts effort into something but there also has to be consequences when he doesn't. Stop doing stuff for him if he refuses to help you.


It seems like a fine line to walk. But once you go to an intensive, he will have enough understanding that you don't have to worry about it. Until he reads the book and gets connected he won't understand what's needed of him to make things right even though you've said it a million times. :roll:


I'm not saying to let him abuse you verbally, physically or mentally ect.. until you get to an intensive. Let us know.


Here is a link concerning being a helpmeet


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Here is a quote I felt might help. let me know.



Something else. You need to decide which battles are worth fighting. I know that when you're in crisis mode, EVERYTHING seems huge! Even the little stressors that you deal with can become as large as the big ones. I would suggest that the quiet time you're needing you take advantage of on your drive home from work (assuming you drive to and from). No cel phone calls, no radio (unless it helps you relax), etc. And either pick-up some take out or go out to dinner by yourself (if your budget allows). Get a crock pot and throw some chicken or ribs in in the morning et voila! Dinner is served. Also, if your kids are old enough (and it sounds like they are), tell them that two nights a week, they're on their own for dinner. PB&J, Mac & Cheese, Hot Dogs....this is easy and will relieve stress for you and for your OW.


So, two nights a week the kids make their own dinner (this could include your OW),

Two nights a week something goes in the crock pot

Two nights a week you go out by yourself

One night you and your OW go out TOGETHER (do not underestimate the importance of this)



This is all such excellent advice. (no shortage to anyone else. I only read the post above that had this quote)


Kathy did perfectly, by adding to the accountability,


1. Overlooking at LEAST two out of three "slights" in the beginning - so that the things that she reacted to visibly and verbally would make an impact. If a wife is not using the two out of three priniciple, in the beginning, an arrested in development husband will not be able to process things and focus on the important things.


2. She rewarded me profusely when I did well. She looked at me as a puppy dog. "Ooh... puppy went pee outside, time for a piece of cheese!"


Most books written to women on marriage, basically teach a wife to "pacify her toddler" husband.


SOME of those principles CAN be incorporated WHEN a husband IS working the principles of "The Man of Her Dreams/The Woman of His!". - What is this doing? This is ONLY because he IS trying.


The sad part about the women's books - is that it says things in a way that makes it the wife's responsibility to keep the peace by pacifying a toddler-husband who is refusing to change and grow. The idea is that if a wife pacifies the toddler, that he won't throw temper tantrums, and like a toddler, he will want to please mommy.


The problem is that a toddler will please mommy - but also is completely self centered (and a toddler SHOULD be self-centered.) HOWEVER, the problem is when a husband is still a toddler. He must be yes, held to accountability to grow - but at the same time, he needs the "Yeah, Tommy went poopy" praise sometimes, that the "perfect wife" books recommend.


Again, the problem is when a wife is told that SHE can change her marriage by CONTINUOUSLY praising her toddler husband, even if he does not deserve it.


What is the CORRECT approach? Praise your GROWING husband, (the evidence of his growth is that he is WORKING at this) - when he does the correct things. Acknowledge his efforts.


Yes, a horribly arrested man will revert when his wife praises his efforts - and THAT is when she switches gears to holding him accountable to treat her right and not backslide.


The WRONG approach to this is for a wife to say, "I cannot respond warmly, or he will backslide." That is for HIM to worry about. A wife still needs to offer the praise (or whatever means 'warm response' in your marriage; might be food, praise, hugs, sex - whatever) - and then, IF/WHEN a hubby backslides, she then switches gears and holds him accountable to treating her right.


What are we REALLY saying here? Wives, respond on purpose. If he is doing good, respond warmly on purpose. If he messes up, respond in kind, by pointing it out and making it an issue. In the beginning, work on the big issues

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Welcome aboard!!! I can picture just from your namesake that you are sad and lonely; beaten down, unsure of believing if you even dare to take the risk again to hope.


You have come to a very special place. I would even be as bold to say, like me, God has led you here. There is reason to hope precious Eyore. That just knowing others have walked your path (although different in their details); and found answers or even some of the whys to your questions does bring a reassurance that God has been watching all along. He knew when your heart would be ready to throw open its doors and bring to His sweet daughter the truth of His Word. I love that God's Word comes when God knows He has put everything in place and you are looking for your healing. You are in His perfect timing and perhaps we can not see it now but so is your husband. He may appear that the storms of his marriage have not discomforted him also but passive men tend to withhold themselves and hide behind their own righteousness. They only do enough to get by and suffer silently in their own wasteland.


Looney is your friend and a marvelous friend she must be to direct you here. Yes, these truths are for the brave soul to grapple with. From out of your pain and the desert you have been in Isaiah says, the rose will blossom. At least we know God has come to make a path out of your wilderness and has come to bring you relief. He will recover you child. No one knows yet what that will look like. I did not know either when I first learned these truths. I faintly understood that in some way God was giving me an answer because He had heard my cries. He heard my prayers. He has taken notice of you. Of course, His eye has watched you every moment He only wanted you to KNOW it. In our fear and loneliness we are sometimes blinded and do not realize this truth of who God is. I too would have to say one of the hardest trials I have ever endured is being surrounded by people and feeling alone anyway. That I was forgotten and I did not matter much at all to any living soul and even perhaps to my God. He wants you to know today He is looking right at you.


Eyore, this is not my usual post. It is not an answer to your marriage questions. It is an answer from your God that He knows. It is Jesus wanting you to know through encouragement that He is mindful of you. He has not forgotten you.You are carved in the palms of His hands and your ruins are ever before His eyes.


As I said, I just sensed from His Spirit you needed this Word.


Love and Blessings Untold,


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Thanks Celia and Looney, for helping me understand. And PIH, thanks SO much for the word from God for me. Yes, I needed to hear that.

(BTW - I read your thread, the entire thing, then I sobbed! Wow!)


Hubby came home himself (*switch flips). I had run some errands with the kiddos, and came home exhausted (I am getting over being sick). I laid down on my bed and fell asleep (hard!).

He came home, changed out of his work clothes, drove to our storage unit, took the Christmas boxes back, picked up the Christmas tree box, and brought it back. He was in the process of making dinner when I woke up. Very nice.

UNFORTUNATELY, acts of service is NOT (I repeat NOT) one of my love languages, and it is ALWAYS the one that he reverts to when I am mad. BUT there are some things that definitely need to be done, and he is starting to take care of them (without me leaving them in the driveway). LOL

I DID have to ask him to actually put the trees into the box before the night is over. It would be nice if the task was completed, but it's a start.

And I must say, he is not in his "must pacify the wife" mode tonight. He seems more like himself, and is finally stepping up. At least a little, which is good.


One thing that I still don't understand is the "holding him accountable" stuff in the quoted section above. I know that this cannot be threatening him every time he does not act like a grown up. I am sure that more info will come once I read the book(s).


New phone is installed, and hopefully it is charged enough to listen in on the call tonight.


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I can picture just from your namesake that you are sad and lonely; beaten down, unsure of believing if you even dare to take the risk again to hope.


It is funny that I picked Eeyore... he is my favorite, but I did not realize the connection. Not a coincidence, hmmm... :?

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I hope that it is okay to post here often, especially in the beginning. :?


We are listening in on the call. I have not spoken or introduced myself (or ourselves) yet, but I wanted to let you know that my hubby is listening WITH me. A big step!


I told him, "This is not a set up" (once the call started). :?


He asked me if I wanted to listen alone, and I told him that he was welcome to listen with me. I left it at that, and he joined in.

He said that he should go to bed early ONE night this week (he has been staying up til midnight or later doing work or silly stuff since we got back from vacation). This is more important than the XBox 360, but the choice is his.

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Thanks, Looney.

About the call, we stayed on the whole 3 hours. He said, "It reminds me of a bridge call", which is a conference call that he often has at work. He said, "I keep waiting for the executives to jump on". (Usually they are trying to explain progress they are making on some problem to company mgmt & execs.) Anyway, I was funny how he could relate to the "format". He seemed to think that it was pretty cool.

He spent the time looking over the material on the website. It was very cool that God's Mighty Soldier was on the call. I emailed him their (Brian & Wen's) forum thread. It sounds like he read through the "before you post" info, and how to get help during the call.

I told him that I realize that I kinda sprung this on him, but he admitted that this has been along time coming. (sure has!) And he said that, "all the times that you told me how much I hurt you, and I never listened once". I said, "you didn't?", and he replied, "obviously I didn't or I wouldn't continue to do it". So, I think that he is starting to get it, at least with the resources that we have so far.

I have not told him my thread "handle" yet. Not sure if I should. Probably should, but I am kinda torn between wanting him to "get it" and wanting privacy, for now. Oh well, I am sure that it will work itself out.

Interesting that the Xbox 360 came up on the call... we were doing great until hubby brought one home (literally the minute he walked thru the door). I never thought about the connection between porn addiction & adrenaline rush from video games.

Gotta run, have a blessed day!

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That is WONDERFUL!! He actually listened in on the call. I honestly believe with all my heart God's' Spirit has come to pour Himself out on this marriage forum. I am praying for your husband God pours out on him a spirit of insight, revelation and knowledge!!!! I think for many men that being teachable and feeling free to be open with other men is the perfect combination to reach them. My husband said in the beginning process (he counsels with Ken Nair's ministry) that hearing certain things from a guy without the usual pride and pretense really helped pin point areas in his life he was too stubborn to admit needed changing. Yes, he was waiting for me to change :shock: :roll:


I am familiar with the hard road scenario. I am not however wrapping my mind around the "accountable" issues either. I tend toward the compassionate side of things but I think my H knows it and takes advantage. I said last night I need to toughen up. :oops: I understand the principles at this point a little better than my H but like I said our one on one mentoring with Ken Nair is like having a body guard around. Right now our counselor really nails him to the wall and is encouraging me to not back down from him. You would think after all I have been through with my clueless man I would be fierce but alas, I think my own arrested development needs some attention. The counselor gets upset with me b/c he tells me God gave you to your husband just as you are. I will get healed and change as he goes first. Unfortunately H was doing so well and has reverted the past week. Ut oh!!! So easy to tell others what to do, isn't it? He has spiritual "ear plugs" in his ears lately.


I did in the beginning of his "epiphany" give tons of praise and warm responding as he was not the same man. Everything about him changed, even his countenance. I was taking in all the lovey-dovey stuff as I had not had any affection in 6 years. :shock: I know my proclivity is to NOT rock the boat cause my fear is all the good stuff will disappear. I think I need venting instructions :D I do get hard on him and he looks at me with shock wondering where that girl came from. Not easy to undo all the years of being the proverbial doormat :shock: I will leave the help-meet knowledge to others for now!!!


I know exactly how you feel about the love language thing. Mine is not acts of service either, his is. He loves me by doing things for me and I need affection, time and words of encouragement. Big surprise, huh? We usually give love in the ways we ourselves need it. Hang in there dear girl, your hubby may very well pull out all the stops and "get it." Nice to have Looney near by though, nothing gets by her. Wow. What a wonderful support to have a friend like her.


I am changing your name from Eyore to HAPPY AND LOVED!!!!!!!




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I am completely exhausted today. Part discouragement (where our life is in many, many ways), part exhaustion (staying up til 2am!), :wink: part still trying to get well.

Hubby is very nice and very attentive, but I just don't care right now. I could sit and cry... and things are not that bad between us. I just think that 20 years of it has worn me down... I feel like I need a vacation, by myself, some place warm, no money worries (of course, I bet me all could use that!). LOL

He is such a nice guy, I just don't really care right now. But if he is willing to step up, and I can step back, then that might be just what I need! :?

It is snowing here and hubby is going to take kids (or at least our son) sledding tonight. It is the first time we have had enough snow to sled since we moved here. I have no interest in going, and am so glad that he is going to take him!


It is strange, when I post here, I always have stuff to say, but nothing "major", which I guess I should be thankful for. There is so much that has happened, and I just don't feel like rehashing it all. But part of me is afraid that I am past caring. KWIM?

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He is such a nice guy, I just don't really care right now. But if he is willing to step up, and I can step back, then that might be just what I need! :?

It is snowing here and hubby is going to take kids (or at least our son) sledding tonight. It is the first time we have had enough snow to sled since we moved here. I have no interest in going, and am so glad that he is going to take him!


It is strange, when I post here, I always have stuff to say, but nothing "major", which I guess I should be thankful for. There is so much that has happened, and I just don't feel like rehashing it all. But part of me is afraid that I am past caring. KWIM?


I can relate. When my husband started this...I think I was where you are....I didn't really care. Go, I don't care. Stay, I don't care. Read the books, I don't care. Don't read the books, I don't care.

But at our deepest place, we do care.

Many wounds have led us to a place of feeling a form of numbness. The numbness is better than feeling the agony.

If you need to step back a bit, watch and wait, that will be okay.

Hang in there with him as he is trying to grasp a brand new marriage message, a new way of living.

Be patient and kind to yourself.

You guys can do this.

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I have SO been there! I honestly was at the point where, if he had chosen to go instead of staying and trying to do this, I would have said OK, driven him to his mom's, and not lost a wink of sleep over it. You just get to the point where you are tired of all the stuff and just want some peace for a change.


Now . . . well, depends on the moment. :? We really do respond to how we are treated on every level, and Celia is right, we just kinda go numb after awhile. I know that for me it will take quite a bit of my husband doing this consistently before I will honestly be able to say that it would really hurt if he left.


Remember when Ez was talking about her hubby going to Iraq, and how she has such a hard time sleeping when he's gone? I found myself envying her - not because he was in Iraq, but because I wondered what it would be like to miss my husband that much.


I hope that as your hubby gets this he'll understand that you need some time to rest and recharge the batteries.

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Yeah, definitely numb. And I don't think that I have ever felt that I would miss him THAT much if he left. I feel guilty, but it is what it is...

I slept over 12 hours last night. I went to bed at 7:30pm! I feel better today, but my ears are kinda full still. Not sure how that is going to work out when I go to work, but I need to at least show up! I have not worked in almost a month, between vacation and coming home sick. At least it is only a 5 hour shirt.

About hubby/marriage, one of the concerns that I have is that we go through periods where things are "good". And those periods get increasingly longer. But underneath it all, there are still some serious problems. I pray that this truly changes his issues, not just the "symptoms".

We have gone to some counseling through our church, and the pastor is supposed to refer us on to someone (professional) to talk to, separately (a man for him and a woman for me). I had not heard from the woman yet, so I emailed the pastor this week, and I am supposed to get a call soon (as of early this week!). Hubby has his contact info for the guy that he is supposed to talk to, but I don't think any contact has been made yet.

I am not sure if this counseling is worth it, but I do have concerns about the underlying issues. Most of it is related to hubby's "arrested development", so maybe it won't be needed, once we start on the books and DVDs. I am just unsure.

What I am basically saying is that I don't want to just get good "behavior" without fixing the underlying stuff, as it will NOT last. It might last for longer than the last time, but not really make things new. KWIM?

He has just been so nice. I don't like "nice". :roll:

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I just wanted to let you know if you and him stick to J&K , you don't need to go to separate counselors. He really needs to post and ask ques. so he can get help on how to meet your needs.


They really have no clue. But its so tiring telling them what to do and how to do it constantly. :roll:

Eventually they are supposed to learn and keep going.

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When he started to read, he said that the men's section said that he is supposed to get started (reading books and watching DVDs) before posting. I told him that I didn't think that he needed to wait, that he could at least introduce himself, etc. He said that it seemed like guys were asking a bunch of questions (the same questions repeatedly) without getting started, so they were trying to avoid answering the same questions for guys who have not taken any step. But I think it would be good for him to get started. Am I right in that?

Also, should I give him my "handle" and let him read my posts? That way people can link us together? Not sure how that normally works.

I was trying to get my thought together to post more of our story... guess I am not ready yet.

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Don't give him your link yet. If he is reading continue to encourage him in that even if he is not on the forum.


I wanted to share something with you that I hope encourages you. Eeyore please don't give up. We all know how you feel. We know you are tired. Hang in there. You don't deserve the hell you've been through and you don't deserve the pain that you have to go through to get to the other side.

But now its different. You and your husband have the answers. Sometimes the steps they take seem so small compared to the change that needs to happen but they are huge in a man. There are times when I know if it wasn't for the extra dose of strength from God to get through I would be gone. I see glimpses of the husband I've always dream of and that keeps me going. Its hard to hang on. You feel you don't know who you are, you're strength is zapped. When you feel like giving up invision how life would be with a changed man and hang on to that. You will not regret giving him the chance to redeem himself when you get to the other side. My heart breaks for those that give up without giving it a chance. For those of us who see our husbands change, can't imagine what would of happen if we didn't give them a chance.

My heart also breaks for those whose husbands become as bad as the enemy himself instead of changing because they lose the greatest gift that they will ever have.


We wouldn't have Joel and Kathy in our lives if Kathy had given up. She had every right. THe the outcome of the pain of the process was so worth it for her and her family. There is pain either way but the pain you face now brings forth healing as your husband begins this journey.


We love ya and pray God's grace and strength over you as you hang on.

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Numbness can be good. Even being numb is a response. Your heart is saying I am too tired and weary of going around the same mountain with no results. I see no promised land. We go into shut-down mode as a natural response to the slow drip of either having to be the responsible one on a constant basis and still get no emotional reward on any level or we have been so beaten down inside it is a protective measure not to have to take any more. Your husband seems to be the passive one in the relationship. No wonder why you are numb. He initiates nothing in any area of his life and you are frantic still trying to carry the load for both of you.


Passive men have an insidious pride. It is the flip side of aggression. The reason they can hide so well is that they "appear" to be Mr Nice guy. They conveniently behave in ways that incite frustration from the other person and make you look like you have the problem. They lack the capacity to be truthful and honest. They do not want their own sin uncovered. They are those who take the path of least resistance. Yet, they expect you to be the "fighter". The one with all the "marriage" stamina. If they can keep telling themselves they are not the problem then they have no reason to face themselves. It is always someone else's fault. Surely, it is not their fault after all they have mastered being nice and not much else. They will do anything to protect their image to others except they can not hide it from their wives. As I said, it is pride. They are SELF RIGHTEOUS. They are right and you are wrong. It is noticeably harder to detect this pride as the "aggressive" man's pride is broadcast in living color.


They say in essence, "Look honey I am nice and do the minimal. It doesn't matter if YOU have needs. I am not capable of or I am too lazy to take the time to understand you. I won't find out what you need and meet the deep longing in your heart. Here, take these crumbs, go away and be satisfied. Do not dare to tell me they are worthless as this is all I can muster." She, however, is feeling, he does not even care. He would not fight for her. He will not come after her, pursue her, sweep her off her feet. That would be asking too much. In the meantime, he is nice and she is slowly wondering where her anger is coming from. She secretly blames herself as if she is not worthy or has value in his eyes. It hurts her. She usually stays silent as she tells herself not to rock the boat. After all he is not mean. He is just nice.


He is the initiator, the source of life or death to you. WHATEVER your husband gives you or does not it will evoke a response in your heart and you will not be able to help it. God wired you this way. You are so in tune with his attitudes, motives and even his lack of them that you respond in like fashion. God put this knowing in you for his benefit. Men at this point can either listen to her "natural warning system" or they can ignore it. The nice guy doesn't b/c he has already told himself he can do the minimal and get away with it. He generally will be absolutely dumbfounded at your responses. They will have excuses "till the cows come home." You grow tired of knowing there is something wrong but always reaching for a reason. It eludes your grasp and this is constant frustration. To save yourself from the vicious cycle you go numb.


You are right in feeling what you do at this point. When your husband begins to "step up" and be actively involved in the marriage your heart (although vulnerable) will soften and open up more. You are like a flower who has not been given water and sunshine, the weeds are over grown and you have not been tended to with love. Of course, you would die inside and wilt under this neglect. Hopefully, he will see that God has given him a wife who has a great capacity to love. Her heart has been enlarged by God's own fashioning. You have so much to give Eyore and I am sorry your husband has disregarded you in those ways. Do not feel WRONG that you are shutting down a bit. It is God's protection for your heart so that you would not become so wounded you give up on yourself.


Hold on to God during these transition times. As Celia said, it IS worth the struggle to be blessed with a wonderful husband. It is like birthing a baby. The pain involved to bring new life is hard but the results of your travail bring a miracle. Soon you forget the pain it took to carry your dream to LIFE.


Be blessed,


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