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Hi Looney,

 

I'm new here and I'm not sure how to send you a message asking you to look at my thread.

 

I see you post alot in this thread so I'm going to put a link to my thread under

the health & nutrition section.

 

It's about being addicted to sugar.

 

Sometime when you have time can you look at it.

 

Thanks.

 

http://joelandkathy...._0entry125791

 

HW

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You and HD are so much like me and my husband.

I too am married to a very very passive husband.

 

Hopefully you are getting HOPE from our thread, instead of frustration! ;)

 

Things are going okay for us. HD is back in the game, but I am finding it difficult to turn around fast. I kinda feel like "gee, after all these years..." not sure what the end to that sentence is, but I know that I am frustrated. You know, when they "turn around" when you threaten them is not a REAL turn around. But threats don't work, and I should know that. The problem is, this time it was NOT just a threat. To get pushed to that point, it is just difficult to come back. I realize that a good helpmeet does not threaten or give up. I guess I feel like I don't have the stamina to keep pushing on. And I wonder if it is really all worth it. Getting a cute litte apartment and just being alone was sounding awfully tempting!!

 

But that is not what God wants for me. I know that. I know that I am supposed to keep pushing thru, even when I don't want to.

 

As I told one of the husbands on the forum the other day, a smile and a compliment mean so much. Hugs and kisses are nice too, but HD would kiss me even when he was abusing me, so kisses often feel like I am being violated (even though it is just a kiss). But when he smiles at me, it melts my heart.

 

I am finding myself asking permission for the silliest things... instead of just doing it and then be faced with the "silent disapproval". Mostly it is about money. We are discussing things more and more, and so that is getting better. But I don't like feeling like I have to ask permission to spend $5.00. And he is not actively making me feel like that, it is just the "unspoken" on his attitude.

 

Today we ran a bunch of errands and it was fun, but we are both overtired so that did not help much. HD received a work call before he even really went to sleep last night, then worked until 6am. He slept until a little after 11:00, so not much sleep. He was going to come home and take a nap, but before we got home, he received another work call. Right after we got home, it started to thunder, so he and our son went out to put the horses in. Then it started to REALLY come hard!! Poor guys! They are soaked! :P

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While money is tight, it is totally "ok" for a husband and wife to contact each other to let each other know if they are spending money. Going through yuck feelings about it is not unusual. Kathy would regularly contact me to let me know when she was going to spend money... not $5 but pretty much any more than that. She just never wanted me to feel pressured financially - so if she got the green light from me, she would know that she was not adding any pressure to the financial life.

 

As time went along, and when money was not tight, I convinced her that she did not have to call. She is frugal and careful in her spending - and her overcompensation in wanting to check with me before spending was a good way for her to beat those feelings of not wanting to put me under pressure.

 

Another great way to do it is for you to know that you can spend "x" amount of dollars when you are out without asking.

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Thanks, Joel. I appreciate the input. I know that in his heart, HD does trust me and does not want me to ask for every cent I spend. My weird feelings come from his "okay" verbally, but his nonverbal disapproval. But that is changing, and I am glad. I have SO much insecurity in that area (NO, in ALL areas). But I just need to let HD know this. Obviously this is an area of growth that I still need to work on. I am not great at venting yet, so posting is my safe alternate. So thankful for the forum!! ::clap

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Hopefully you are getting HOPE from our thread, instead of frustration! ;)

 

I am being blessed reading your thread. It's just nice to know that I'm not "crazy" like my husband

tried to convince me before the intensive. That I was this way because of my sexual abuse growing up, or whatever and that he was NOT responsible for ANY of my pain.

Ha. I love being on this forum. It helps me learn what my "helpmeet" role is and what that looks like.

 

It was nice becoming friends on Face Book. I love putting faces to the names. I sent a message to J & K about maybe starting a page on FB for all of us to join.

 

Hang in there. I think couples who are out in the public so to say get so attacked by Satan. I know my parents were very aware of that during their ministry season for 32 years.

My dad was a pastor of a community church for 32 years. He passed away Thanksgiving Day 2009; he was 71 yrs old and still preaching strong. He preached his last sermon in a wheelchair

just 4 weeks before he died.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

HW

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We officially discourage facebook use - but we gave up trying to get people to not be on it at all. We even finally "gave in" and started a personal and a ministry facebook to promote the ministry and reach people.. but we really want people to keep any and all marriage help type of communication on the forum. We do not give ANY marriage help on facebook.

 

People instant message us and we do not reply. They probably get hurt but we are not going to start doing private/instant messaging with anyone on the number one vehicle for adultery the America today!

 

 

People send us messages on facebook and we simply reply, asking them to post on the forum if they are asking for marriage help - or to post on our wall if they are just saying "hi".

 

EVERYONE should follow these guidelines on facebook too. Also - married couples need a profile picture of both husband and wife.

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Yes. I totally agree with everything you said. My FaceBook account has a picture of my husband and I and we use both our names. SherryandDonny Perez.

 

I wanted to find the moderator couples so I could put faces to the names. It was cool finding their pages and seeing their families.

That's all I was interested in. I don't usually get on FB but once a month or so.

 

Thanks for you input.

 

HW

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Amen to that, too!! I have mostly enjoyed getting in touch with family members that I have not seen or talked to in years. When I had my heart issues last year, I found out that numerous family members have/had the same issue. It was helpful when talking to the doctors, and it was encouraging to me. And I DO love seeing the smiling faces of the friends and families from the ministry. Thanks for laying out your thoughts and concerns, Joel.

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My cousin posted this on Facebook today...

 

HOW TO TREAT A WOMAN: Wine her. Dine her. Call her. Hold her. Surprise her. Compliment her. Smile at her. Listen to her. Laugh with her. Cry with her. Romance her. Encourage her. Believe in her. Cuddle with her. Shop with her. Give her jewelry. Buy her flowers. Hold her hand. Write love letters to her. Go to the ends of the earth and back again for her.

 

HOW TO TREAT A MAN: Show up naked. Bring chicken wings & beer. Don't block the TV!

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HOW TO TREAT A WOMAN: Wine her. Dine her. Call her. Hold her. Surprise her. Compliment her. Smile at her. Listen to her. Laugh with her. Cry with her. Romance her. Encourage her. Believe in her. Cuddle with her. Shop with her. Give her jewelry. Buy her flowers. Hold her hand. Write love letters to her. Go to the ends of the earth and back again for her.

 

Hey - facebook is good for something..! ::love

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I just wanna say that it is really nice to see HD relaxed, smiling, not stressed out, and loving on Eeyore.

 

How 'bout you nail a lid on that pit, HD, before you fall in it again?

 

This is great news! Hey HD and Eeyore.. how about posting the good times too?

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Not a very positive update, but an update nevertheless...

 

Eeyore and I went to visit a new church today, and had an incident that I need some help with - maybe some of the guys that have dealt with similar issues can offer some advice. We got to the church and were waiting in the lobby area to say Hi to a lady that Eeyore knows from a book club that she is part of (she was in the middle of a conversation with someone else). While we were waiting, the worship team starting playing to call everyone into the service, so we started to move into the sanctuary - as we approached the doors, the ushers were closing the doors to cut down on the outside noise during a quick prayer time before they starting playing the first song. We wanted to go on in, so Eeyore opened the door and slipped in - I went to follow her, but the usher was pushing the door closed behind her, and another lady was trying to walk in while having a conversation with someone behind her and not paying attention to where she was walking. I stopped to let her in, and then had to squeeze past her and the usher to catch up to Eeyore - the situation irritated me. When I got to Eeyore, she was standing in front of what appeared to be an empty row of seats, but a lady had told her that the row was being saved; we started walking towards the front, but I was not leading, she was - she turned to me and said that she didn't want to be the one to pick a seat. I stepped around Eeyore and stomped off ahead to find us a seat, still in feeling ticked off - I found us seats, but really hurt Eeyore by my attitude; it looked to her like I was mad at her.

 

We've talked about what happened quite a bit, and it boils down to this - I was upset by how I was treated by strangers (the usher and the lady that wasn't paying attention). That's part of life - strangers aren't concerned about how they affect you, they are "clueless"; but, to take the hurt that was caused by someone unintentionally, magnify it internally, and then ABUSE my wife with my perceived hurt, is nothing short of EVIL. Eeyore had several good analogies to explain what I did - one was that someone drove past me, kicked up a rock from the road and it landed next to me; I got angry at them, picked up a boulder, and smashed her in the head with it. Another example that she used was the guy that gets cut off in traffic, and then comes home and beats his wife.

 

This is not a "happened once" thing - this is something that she's had to deal with from me throughout our relationship. She takes the brunt of my hurt feelings, magnified by my past hurts and self-centered and fleshly focus, and all I ever do is apologize, say that I will not let it happen again, explain why it happened, and then we move on. The problem is that it continues to happen - I get hurt, and then I hurt her worse that I was hurt.

 

I do not want to be the kind of man that feels like he has to hurt his wife to feel better about himself, or to diffuse his anger at others. I don't know what that is supposed to look like, though - do I need to express my anger verbally to the people that caused the anger in the first place (i.e., tell the usher to let me in to walk with my wife, and the lady that wasn't watching where she was going to watch out and pay attention)? Do I need to stand up for myself more and not internalize my feelings as much? Do I extend less grace to strangers and all of my grace to my wife?

 

I need help with this - this can't continue, and is another area where Eeyore realizes how much things still need to change before she is safe and before she truly feels like this marriage is truly on the way to a better place.

 

HerDensity

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Do I extend less grace to strangers and all of my grace to my wife?

Yes.

 

This reminds me of a situation when we eat out at those restaurants that have two sets of doors. DW opens the first door for me and then if he holds the door open for the next couple, I either have to open the 2nd door for myself :blink: or let the other couple in line ahead of us.

 

To me, the polite thing for DW to do is to hand the door off to the people behind us so that he can open the second door for me. Otherwise you can end up letting 10 people in line ahead of yourself and waiting an extra ½ hour in line.

 

In other states I have lived in this could probably be handled differently because the favor would be returned but in Florida, well, manners are a little more, shall we say, taken advantage of.

 

So, if you must pick and choose, PICK YOUR WIFE. :D

 

Maybe you could look a little tiny bit put out at those other people. I can’t imagine the usher cutting you out if you were walking close enough to Eeyore to look like you were with her. :o

 

We have gone in fast food places where DW would stand so far away from me in line, no one would even know we were together. To me it was a subconscious passive way of him disconnecting from me. I’m pretty sure when a guy wants to show off his girl he doesn’t keep his distance.

 

HD, do you consider yourself a pretty fair judge? Because I agree with Eeyore, it isn’t fair and it isn’t logical for you to take things out on her when someone else did the irritating behavior. So really, what is going on? Were you already irritated with her about something else she corrected you on earlier, or is the closeness just a little too uncomfortable for you and it’s time to break the bond?

 

C2

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- do I need to express my anger verbally to the people that caused the anger in the first place (i.e., tell the usher to let me in to walk with my wife, and the lady that wasn't watching where she was going to watch out and pay attention)? Do I need to stand up for myself more and not internalize my feelings as much? Do I extend less grace to strangers and all of my grace to my wife?

 

You extend grace to the strangers AND to your wife. You "let it go" as it is happening. They used to call this "the exchanged life".. when you hae that split second to either be irritated and "swallow" the irritation and let it get hold of you.. or you can make the decision in that split second to say "Lord, I exchange this for your love, your life, your joy in me."

 

In the real world, I may have gotten irritated at times like that sometimes.. Kathy would say something to the effect of "why are you bothered right now?" I would say what happened.. and she would say something like "Joel.. just let it go. You shouldn't get bothered and let that affect us.." something to that effect, just like it sounds like Eeyore has done.. So I would shrug it off and on with our convertable ride we would go.

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C2 - I do NOT think that I am a good judge of my own behavior, or my treatment of Eeyore, and THAT'S the problem here. Not only do I screw up in the moment and abuse her, but then I turn to excuses and reasons to explain my behavior, instead of putting Eeyore first. Basic bad husband BS. I said to Eeyore earlier today that nothing she did leading up to my "exhibition" instigated anything - I was feeling good and excited about visiting the church (maybe a little nervous, as she was, but we had giggled about that in the parking lot and it was "all good" in my mind). I just reacted like a big baby and took it out on her, like a selfish baby.

 

Joel - you explain well what a mature person would do; problem is, I am still not that person, so we end up with this situation playing out. I wish I could behave that way; then my wife wouldn't be in this place of pain and hurt at my hand, yet again.

 

The obvious key is to ALWAYS put my wife first, no matter what, no matter where, no matter when. By now, you would think that I would get that, but obviously I am still struggling with some of the basics.

 

Thanks to both of you for the time taken to respond...

HD

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The obvious key is to ALWAYS put my wife first, no matter what, no matter where, no matter when.

 

HD, if you know what to do why aren’t you doing it? See, we’re not going to let you off the hook just because you recognize what you did. You answered your own question:

 

Basic bad husband BS.

 

Now go do something to make it right. Suggestions, a little backrub, a little shoulder rub, something that Eeyore has told you helps relieve stress for her. We don’t want her having another migraine.

 

If she’s not able to relax yet, it may be because you’re just not getting it. Trust her instincts, she’ll know when you really get it. Keep pursuing her until you get it figured out and win her smile back. Now that’s how you know you’ve arrived!

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Thank you C2 - Great replies! I was posting when you were on the first one and did not come back to look until now.

 

To me, the polite thing for DW to do is to hand the door off to the people behind us so that he can open the second door for me. Otherwise you can end up letting 10 people in line ahead of yourself and waiting an extra ½ hour in line.

 

Now go do something to make it right. Suggestions, a little backrub, a little shoulder rub, something that Eeyore has told you helps relieve stress for her. We don’t want her having another migraine.

 

If she’s not able to relax yet, it may be because you’re just not getting it. Trust her instincts, she’ll know when you really get it. Keep pursuing her until you get it figured out and win her smile back. Now that’s how you know you’ve arrived!

 

C2 - great advice!

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I went to Looney's the other night, and stayed there after the call. Then I came home for a few hours, then left with my sister-in-law to go with her to take my niece back to college (about 4 hours away from our home). I did not sleep much either night and am completely exhausted.

 

I talked to HD on the way home, and asked him how he was doing (kinda the normal, "Hi, how are you?" question). His answer was, "Doing good, doing good.". This struck me as very annoying. He did ask about me, but it just felt like it was so HIM focused. It would have been nice to hear, "I am doing good, Babe, how are YOU?". But no, the focus was on him. I called him back and told him how this made me feel. He said that he was not even aware that he said this. In my opinion, if my marriage was on the brink of falling apart, I would be very aware of EVERYTHING I said. But no...

 

I talked to my sis-in-law about how things are going on most of the trip up to my niece's college. She asked a lot of questions, and sees a lot of things that are going on, even without a real understanding of the ministry, or me telling her much. She sees the negativity under which HD lives. She sees his lack of feeling worthy to be happy.

 

I explained some of the things that we discussed on the call... how HD has these imaginary conversations in his head, and then he does not share them with me. HD and I discussed this on Monday, after I got home from Looney's house. He started to apologize to me, but his apology was just about the Sunday. I stopped him and said that the problem is not just about Sunday. He agreed, but he admitted that he had the apology all planned out, and the entire conversation along with it... and when I did not say the things that he wanted me to in his head, it derailed his apology (and our day).

 

I do not know how to have ANY type of relationship with him at this point. I am beyond exhausted.

 

Here are some things that are HUGE issues right now...

 

The "letting things go" that Joel posted about. I agree with this, but HD also needs to take a stand at times, especially in regards to standing up for me.

 

Not using me as his emotional punching bag when someone else makes him mad. I feel like he is not really any different than the guys who get mad and come home and beat up their wives. The only difference is that he beats me up emotionally.

 

The "imaginary conversations" that go on inside his head, which I will NEVER be able to live up to. And as a result, every conversation is an argument. No wonder I have felt the unspoken disapproval from him for 20+ years... I was not saying or doing what he had already planned that I would do.

 

The fact that when I call him out on things, he does not turn things around... he makes excuses or lies... then when I call him out on the excuse or lie, he feels like I am attacking his character, develops a "poor me" attitude and goes further down the road of negativity. One short conversation can drive him miles down the road of negativity, and each thing I point out to him is something that he uses against me, and to hurt me more. There is never a point where he DOES turn it around... and that makes me feel like he "throw down the gauntlet" because he is basically saying, "I won't do it... I won't turn it around, I won't be nice, I won't make changes, I won't bless you, etc...".

 

 

HD, you keep talking about not "being the man" I need you to be. Well, that only happens one step at a time. You DON'T do what you should because you have already made up your mind that you are not that man. With this mindset, you never will be!! You have to decide that you are going to do it, and do it. A surgeon does not go to school, get his degree, get his medical license, then refuse to operate because he has never operated! He observes, assists, then takes the scalpel in his hand and operates. DOING is what makes him a surgeon. DOING will make you that man. Not a decision. While you do have to make the decision to do it, that is not enough. I need you to make a decision and do it. If you are not going to do that, then just let me know. I can't continue to wait and hope.

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