Jump to content
God Save My Marriage

Recommended Posts

I agree with Eeyore. I was hit with major ick wave when I read your post. The " I don't understand/I need help" is a popular tactic here.

 

You ALREADY KNOW everything you NEED TO DO! You are just currently in a place where you don't WANT to do it.

 

BELIEVE your wife.

OWN your behavior.

DO something positive/sweet to pull yourself out of this place and turn things around QUICKLY with your wife.

 

She is seeing something you can't or won't at the moment. Believe her and see what happens.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 3.2k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

DO something positive/sweet to pull yourself out of this place and turn things around QUICKLY with your wife.

 

He has himself completely convinced that, since he did something "wrong", he MUST feel guilt & shame for what he did. Then, while living in that place of guilt and shame, he tries over and over (with his own strength and power) to pull his head out of his posterior... instead of what you said, doing something sweet and positive.

 

Ugh. Can I puke now?? :puke:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can I puke right along with you? :puke:

 

When you say you need help, HD, what you're really saying is that you want to find a way to just make your brain do the right thing without any effort on your part. You want to shut down those mother-son issues once and for all, flip the good husband switch, and love your wife like you're supposed to, and like we all know you want to deep down inside.

 

I want to drop 20 pounds that way, too. Guess what? Neither of us is gonna get our wish.

 

You don't need help from any of us. You need to dump your feelings on God. You need to deal with the huge amount of resentment you're feeling towards Eeyore, as evidenced by the boatload of mother-son you're dishing out. You need to remember that shame and guilt do nothing but sabotage your attempts to do the right thing, and you need to decide in this moment to love your wife, whether you feel like it or not. Then you need to give her a good LOVER apology with the right attitude, take her in your arms, and do a little bonding as soon as she is able to let you, because you obviously need it.

 

If you are unwilling - note I did NOT say unable - to do that right now, I'd suggest asking her if she'd like you to go to the office tomorrow so she can at least get a break from your lousy attitude. I have an early appointment tomorrow and then I'll come over and spend the day with her.

 

C'mon, HD. Pull it out. A pot of coffee really isn't worth this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

HD

I know I am new to this stuff but i will give my 2 cents and pray it helps.

When we do things like drinking the flavored coffee or eating the leftover steak and letting our wives eat the hamburger we are loving ourselves. We are very good at that and there is only 1 solution death we need to die to ourselves.

HD you have been at this for a long time now and the excuse of not knowing or not taking responsibility will not work.

Your wife is still in the fight she is still waiting,hoping, and praying for the Christ-like man you can be stop making excuses and die.

I would do anything to have my wife back anything!!!

 

Christ first then your wife second then your children third.

That does not leave much room for self kill it ask God to reveal it (threw your wife)do not be defensive be repentant be humble be Christ-like.

 

That being said this may not sound like it but this is meant in love and as an encouragement You can do this the choice is yours

Link to post
Share on other sites

We had a good conversation last night, on our way to a meeting for our homeschool group. Stephen has come a long way in realizing that the past is the past, and really all we have is today, and in a way, tomorrow.

 

We were talking about guilt and shame, and while it is "okay" to have any emotion (it is not good to say to ourselves, or other people, that we "should not feel that way"), there ARE negative emotions that we must learn to manage or eliminate, once we recognize that we have them. We were discussing the fact that he felt guilty for hurting me very badly a few days ago. And that guilt was propelling him into continuing to hurt me, instead of turning it around.

 

So, he made a comment about he is a bad husband. I don't know what his point was, but I said, "So, you might as well pack up and leave then". After all, if we only have TODAY, and he says that he is a bad husband, then he is telling me that he is being a bad husband today, and he is going to CONTINUE to be a bad husband tomorrow. It is like he is "throwing down", and deciding NOT to be a good husband.

 

He (and every husband) have a choice, which ONLY involves what they are doing NOW, and what they are going to do TOMORROW. If you hurt your wife, and you feel guilt, then let that guilt PROPEL you to make it better. DON'T let it be an EXCUSE to continue to hurt her today, tomorrow, and the next day.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I did want to post and say that things here are going better - Eeyore and I have talked a lot the past couple of days and we are making some good progress on dealing with the hurt and pain from the past week or so. As always, Eeyore is able to put her feelings into words that I can understand that really helps me to see things from her perspective - and, that is the key to making the changes necessary to become a good husband. She posted about the key for me, which is to realize that my actions in THIS moment and the NEXT moment are the only things that I can control - the past is gone, and I can't do anything about it. Especially, spending time and mental energy on what I have done in the past is wasted and leads to nothing productive; for me, time spent thinking about the past is nothing more than a ticket to blame myself and kick myself around. Instead, I need to admit to my bad actions, apologize for the hurt that they caused, and then move forward by blessing my wife and putting her first.

 

We are still working through some hurts from the past week or so, and that is good. It's good to look back at the past three years and realize that we have come a long ways and that we ARE on the road to an OHM, despite the setbacks and speedbumps that is a marriage in recovery. We are making progress, and I know that I love Eeyore more than I ever have, and that just plain rocks.

 

Stephen.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Things are not really going that great. Last night I attended group with Steve (he is attending the same group that I attended a few weeks ago). On our way home, I pointed out to him that it hurts me when he makes "friendly" eye contact with another woman, specifically a younger one.

 

Of course he denied it, defended it, etc. But it happened and made me uncomfortable. No, he was not giving her the "once over", but it was a friendly, warm smile. I told him that he is not old enough to give her an older "dad" type smile, as he is not old enough to be her dad. And even if he is, he is NOT old enough to be HER dad, as HIS (our) daughter is only 17, and this young woman is in her 20s.

 

When I told him about his smile, and how it made me feel, he said, "thanks for pointing that out to me" and that was it. No apology, nothing. So then we had a discussion about his lack of apologies and how cold he is being.

 

After we got home he got right on his computer, and I thought he was posting here, but no post showed up. I asked him if he has posted and he said, "not yet". Then he got on a Facebook game. I told him that it hurts me that he said that he was going to post and then plays a game instead. He told me that he was working on the post in his head (which made sense) and I told him that if he had just told me that, I would have felt better. He admitted that his lack of communication does hurt me, and I told him that it is his passive way of hurting and controlling me... don't say what I need in order to hurt me, instead of just saying it and letting me feel safe and loved.

 

When we went to bed, we were watching tv. He handed me the remote control, and rolled over and went to sleep. He does this a LOT. He assumes I want to continue to watch tv, or he assumes that I don't want to ML, and he just goes to sleep. His excuse last night was that he knew that I was upset, so he assumed that I would not want to be with him. Well, after making me feel insecure about another woman, having his initiate ML would have made me feel a LOT more loved. But once again, he does not initiate... it has been weeks... I cannot remember the last time. He will probably say that it was not that long ago. But if I don't remember when it was, then it was too long...

Link to post
Share on other sites

REALLY, HD??!!

 

No response, which is fine, since you are working. But you just came downstairs, knowing that I am hurt... all you do is drop off your coffee cup in the kitchen, tell me something about work, then walk back upstairs???? :huh: :shock: :???: :angry: :|

Link to post
Share on other sites

Every attempt to post today is coming out as nothing more than self-defense and self-focus - I have typed in and erased 6 or 7 different posts.

 

Right now, I just want to say that I am sorry to Eeyore for how I have treated her - not just now, but throughout our marriage. I have and continue to put myself first and her last. I continue to make selfish and mean decisions and instead of thinking about her and what she needs. She gets hurt by me everyday and that is not the life that she wants or needs - she deserves to be treated in a manner that is deserving of who she is, and I also deserve to be in a marriage that celebrates who we really are as individuals and as a couple. I am the one that sets the tone for the marriage and I have failed more consistently than I have succeeded at setting the proper tone...

 

There will be more that I will post.

S

Link to post
Share on other sites

His EXCUSE for not touching me (last night) was that I was "[edit]ed off". No, I was not [edit]ed off... I shared a simple hurt. Thanks for caring...

 

What is your excuse for all of the other days??

Link to post
Share on other sites

Eeyore and I have talked this issue out this afternoon, which is good - I realize that I was shocked, embarrassed, and ashamed by what she said to me and focused on my feelings instead of simply realizing that this was more of a hurt/concern on her part than it was an accusation. If I had simply realized that she was looking for reassurance and to know that SHE was my girl, now and forever and that no one else can hold a candle to her, then all would have been different.

 

I needed to find a way to communicate with her that I was hurt by her question and that it made me angry, so that she could re-frame what she was saying to me - instead, I chose to focus on my anger (rather than her hurt) and then projected my anger onto her, and convinced myself that she was angry with me, when instead she was simply hurt and feeling neglected.

 

Eeyore - I am sorry for ascribing to you emotions that didn't actually exist (except in my own head), and for negatively reacting to how I imagined you were feeling. In the future, I will listen more and really, really focus on YOUR FEELINGs instead of mine, and I will ask questions to ensure that I understand what you are saying and feeling.

 

S

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, Stephen, you wanted a post, so you're gonna get one. I am laying it flat out here, and this time I'm not gonna try to frame it in encouragement like I generally try to do. You've got a big issue you need to deal with, and it's long past time you faced it honestly and did something about it. Eeyore, I, and many others in this ministry have tried to gently get you to face it, but so far you have refused, and your marriage isn't going to move forward until you do.

 

You are doing the most abusive thing a man can do to his wife. I am absolutely convinced that - at least for you - this is the root of all your mother/son crap, all of the self focus, and all of the dozens of other little things that don't quite add up to an OHM. You are refusing to make love to your wife. I've been praying through this since I talked to Eeyore this afternoon, and I am absolutely convinced that this is the root of your problem.

 

I am also absolutely convinced that deep down inside, you know the reason for it. It's obviously something you haven't been willing to deal with so far, but I don't believe it's some mysterious, I-don't-know-why-I-do-that part of your brain. There is something, because normal, healthy men generally want sex. I'm praying it's not porn or SG, but at least that would explain a few things.

 

You know that making love releases neurochemicals in Eeyore's body that she needs. You know that it makes her feel loved and desirable, something that, frankly, you haven't done a great job of making her feel over the past 20 years. You know that if you are making love to her on a regular basis, it enables her to handle all of the other . . . stuff . . . you throw at her on a regular basis. You also know that the same neurochemicals are released in your body, which causes you to bond with your wife, which in turn helps to kill the mother/son monster. And when the mother/son monster is dead, you don't abuse your wife.

 

Making love isn't for you, no matter how strongly you are determined to believe it's a selfish act. Making love is for your wife, Yes, you get a nice fringe benefit, but it is a gift you give to Eeyore. And no matter how many times we've explained all that, no matter how many times she has said yes, I want it!, no matter how many times you have been told to assume she wants it unless she tells you otherwise, you refuse to give it to her.

 

WHY?

 

I don't really care if you answer that question on the forum. I just care that you deal with it in a way that solves the problem and doesn't abuse your wife in the process.

 

I also don't care how you feel about being "controlled" or any other word you want to use. I know you think that making love shouldn't be planned - that it should just happen naturally. Well, guess what? When left up to you, it doesn't. So if you really want your wife - you do, right? - then you will start acting like it. You will initiate ML at least 3 times a week and let Eeyore decide if she does or doesn't want it. You'll do it even if you don't really feel like it, because your wife needs it and you are going to meet it like you meet every other need she has. You might even find after a couple of weeks that a whole bunch of mother/son crap is disappearing, and that it's a whole lot easier to be a decent husband.

 

I realize I can't actually make you do this - I really do wish there was some way to compel you to do it until you finally figure out how important it is. I will tell you that Eeyore is tired of feeling ugly and undesirable, and tired of a husband who refuses to give her that part of himself. She doesn't want a roommate. The question is, are you willing to give her ALL of you, or are you going to keep holding back?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Stephen admitted last night that HE was the one who was angry, and he was projecting HIS anger onto me.

 

I say something that makes him mad, and while I may be upset or hurt, it is not to the point of anger. But he accuses me of being angry, and does not approach me, because "I am angry". BUT in reality, HE IS ANGRY. He is mad at me for what I said, and HE is the one who does not want to touch ME!

 

This is SOO much about HIM and HIS emotions... what I have always feared was that HE was mad at me, or was rejecting me, or whatever... it was true! HE has these emotions and projects them onto me. Yet the whole time I can FEEL that it was rejection, even though a silent rejection. I could feel his disapproval and his anger and whatever...

 

Time to FACE these things, Steve. Time to admit that you don't want to make love to your wife... just long enough to recognize it and CHANGE IT! If you are angry at something I say to you, you don't puke it all over me, you tell me that you feel like I am accusing you of something AND THEN let me respond... don't keep talking... express your thought then let me respond.

 

Don't deny your emotions and don't blame ME for your emotions... recognize them and then be a man... deal with them in a Godly way!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tonight I talked to him on my way home, and he was sounding all uptight. I pointed this out to him, and he said that he had an emotional day.

 

REALLY??!!!

 

My marriage is just about over.... you think mine might have been stressful too???????

Link to post
Share on other sites

All Stephen has to do is love (agape) his wife and his problems will be over.

 

We're in our 60's. We ML every 5 days. I don't know whether that's "normal" or not, but I'm pretty sure it's better than some 40-year-olds...

 

That is one part of marriage a man is "allowed" to be selfish about -- in a loving way, of course!

 

I hope you guys make it to "the other side"!

Link to post
Share on other sites

LT - thanks for your post. I appreciate the honesty and directness of your post, and I will work on dealing with what's behind it (not porn or SG, I promise)...

 

Eeyore is right in saying that I always have an excuse for not ML - typically they are internal thoughts and judgements that aren't based in reality, but they are strong enough to short-circuit my desire and they are things that I don't challenge because they "seem true". Eeyore and I have talked about this topic this morning, and I definitely realize how much I am harming her and not helping myself by not making ML as high of a priority as it should be...

 

New day, new start, new beginnings are good - Eeyore told me that today is "National Kiss and Makeup Day", so I will take advantage of that!

 

S

Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe I am way off base here but don't J&K teach that men change by doing physically first and then the heart changes come after and women get the heart change first and the physical change comes after? It seems HD, like you are doing all this internal searching and expecting a heart change that will precede your physical actions. That is role reversing.

 

I hope in this new day, new start and new beginning that you stop all this internal searching until you've let your actions precede it so you can truly have the change you are looking for. All this talking with your wife is good but I don't know that it should be about why YOU do the things the way YOU do them or WHAT makes you think the way YOU think. It doesn't matter. I am pretty sure as you just DO this you will find that you deal with the reasons behind your actions naturally and it wont be forced because the change will just occur as that is how men are created. If you are trying to figure out the why's and what's first before you initiate the change then I think you are asking yourself to not be the man you were created to be. That is one out of control spinning merry-go-ground. Only you can decide to stop the spinning and start doing. I hope you do. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Just feel the need to report, since everyone is keeping an eye on things around here ;) . . . Stephen is firmly back on track. I am really impressed by how quickly he can get out of the ditches these days. Yeah, the crashes still happen and they tend to be big, because at this point he has dealt with all of the surface issues and is down to the really deep, hard stuff. We were all talking this morning, and we agreed that there really isn't any way for him to learn this stuff other than to go through it. I know this thread looks like it's been one train wreck after another lately, but in reality there are a lot of good days in between the bad ones. Stephen has just gotten rather lax about posting when things are good . . . but he's gonna fix that, right? :P

 

Anyway, there is a lot of smiling, Eeyore is relaxed, and Kiss and Make Up Day is being thoroughly celebrated. :D

 

This is LT reporting live from the Donkey & Delorean Roller Coaster. :rotfl:

Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know that it should be about why YOU do the things the way YOU do them or WHAT makes you think the way YOU think.

 

I wanted to address this just for teaching purposes, since I have a lot of people reading this thread. Eeyore and HD, you two can go make out in the back seat or something . . . :P

 

Jaya's correct in that guys have to do before they feel. However, Stephen's at the point now where he has learned how to look at a problem long enough to solve it without getting stuck in his head. I know that, and I know that I can tell him to figure something out without running the risk that he will navel gaze for the next six months. In this case, just do it wasn't working - we've been talking about this issue for 3 years, and he wasn't doing it. So he was at the point where he really needed to take a good look at the issue so he could find the roadblocks and deal with them.

 

I would never have said that to a man who is not as far along in this process as Stephen is. I don't want anyone to misinterpret that and think that I am suggesting a bunch of self focus and introspection across the board. The first answer is always for a guy to just do it, no matter how he feels. But we have to remember that the idea here is for a man to grow up, and that if this process works the way it's supposed to, a man should get to the point where he is eventually able to handle looking at his issues without abusing his wife. A man who is almost at an OHM, but going through a rough patch, isn't in the same place as a guy who's just starting out here.

 

So hopefully that makes sense . . . Eeyore, you and HD can come back now, unless you're having too much fun back there. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

The past couple of days have been very nice - back to our "new normal", which isn't something that we tend to post a lot about. Our life is VERY, VERY nice most of the time, when I am keeping my attention on my wife, listening to her, and doing the things that I know blesses her. I think that one of the greatest parts of our "new normal" is that I am able to bless my wife in ways that she doesn't explicitly express to me, just because I know her and know what blesses me.

 

We have come a long ways in this area - this isn't just a matter of doing what she asks, but about KNOWING my wife and finding ways to surprise and BLESS her. This is the greatest part of this ministry - once we get past the early stages where we are dealing more with apologies and the old hurts head-on, we get into a period of FUN and LOVING times where we REALLY begin to rebuild the relationship and the reasons why I love her come back FULL STRENGTH. We are spending more and more time in this place (even though it doesn't look like that from reading our thread!), and that's what makes our life fuller and more blessed than it ever has been before. This is PROGRESS and HEALING and where things go, once the initial work is done - healing our marriage isn't about the early changes, but about LIVING our life TOGETHER every day and enjoying it!

 

We have gained tools for our life together and for Eeyore to express her hurts and for me to fix her hurts, and our life is moving past the point of needing to use those tools every day, but instead we are spending a LOT more time enjoying life together, with pauses to fix up things that happen here and there. The things that happen are still very hurtful and still look very much like times when I have hurt her over our entire relationship, so I am not trying to say that everything is fine and dandy, BUT I also know that I am NOT the person that I was three years ago - the process of learning how to listen to and heal my wife has CHANGED me forever.

 

Stephen

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...