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At a suggestion, I'm going to make my first post on the forum. Even though I'm new to this I'm not new to the subject matter that obviously has brought each of use to the same place.


Since this is my very first time, I would like to express my gratitude to Joel and Kathy and the other very deserving people who share there love and concern for other people who find themselves standing at the cross roads. I kind of visualize myself standing in the middle of a dusty intersection in the middle of the Delta on a hot August day with suitcase in hand wondering which way to go. And yes, as the old blues legends once wrote the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. However, I choice the angel although the devil appears to have the upper-hand.


I know which way I want to go but I don't know how to get there. And the proverbial question in my mind is will I get there even if I learn the way.


To say that I'm beginning to feel lonely and somewhat discouraged as I see the shadow of divorce approaching in the distance, is an understatement. I know you all well know where I'm going with this. Five months ago my wife kicked me out of our home that I'm still paying for and moved her boyfriend in. I'm still paying as they...well we're all adults here you get the picture. We have four children and she's kept me from them many times during this time. Lawyers have cost a fortune and it looks like were headed for a lengthy trial.


My wife has often expressed some drastic mood swings and behavior sometime being somewhat nice and other times being beyond mean and hateful. I'm not trying to escape any blame. She obviously doesn't love me but I'm enabling her lifestyle with her less than successful boyfriend. She has totally headed the other direction away form God.


Here lately she has mention in the last several phone conversations this single consistent statement: "You are not my friend!" Okay, I get it on the surface but hey Women are from Venus Men are from Mars. What does this really mean from a woman's perspective? I can't seem to catch a break. She knows how I feel and yet sometime her anger towards me is beyond. She doesn't show any signs of turning my direction. She seems to be happy living this lifestyle with her boyfriend while we are yet to be divorced and continues to try and inflict maximum pain. I question if she ever really loved me at all.

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- congratulations on posting, that is a step in the right direction.



My wife has often expressed some drastic mood swings and behavior sometime being somewhat nice and other times being beyond mean and hateful.


Women don't act this way for no reason, fill us in a little on your story. What happened that lead to your wife kicking you out?


You can still win her heart back, no she doesn't love you now because of your abuse, but you can win her heart back by becoming the man that God has created you to be. This will happen as you lay your life down for her and love her as Christ loved the church.


Have you ordered/read books #1 & #2?

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It really goes way back to the beginning. I made some mistakes early on in our marriage. When we married, I wasn't quite ready because I had been in a difficult relationship before meeting her. She wanted to be married so bad and her family really pushed it. I did love her and we married.


I went through some depression early on in our relationship after some tough times with work, family, etc. I don't know that we ever recovered. She always brings up things that happened way in the past like years ago. I guess she never got over some of the pain I caused.


I read that sometime when people can't heal from the past they just go searching for a fresh start and the marriage never heals. Although I pray that is not the case, she really seems determined. I think she's been involved in her relationship for a while and with that she has not grieved like I am. We have a young 4 year old and it breaks my heart.


At present she's not even speaking to me or answering my text messages. When I do talk to her she extremely disrespectful and just seems like she pushing me to give up on our marriage so she no longer feels guilt. I'm not sure how you recover from something like this. I been trying for almost three years now.

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- have you read book #1? If you haven't you need it ASAP and begin putting it into practice. There is still a chance because sooner or later - and probably sooner, the current boyfriend is going to break her heart just like every other man has, including you. However, now is your chance to change and start loving (agape) your wife in any way that she will allow you to. When she falls you need to be a rock and a safe place for her.


Again, have you read book #1 - Man of her dreams, Woman of his?

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Brian thanks so much for being interested enough to exchange in conversation with me. I really appreciate it!


I did purchase the two books and hopefully they will be here not a minute to late.


I understand what you are talking about agape love. I've been studying the subject for some time now and trust me it is the only thing that keeps me hanging on. It's the love that Christ extends to me and in my pitiful attempt to be more like him I continue to forge forward in the face of a very brutal storm.


I need to take a moment in the face of my guilt to express my enormous grief. The past week has been especially painful. As I get closer to the impending day in court, my heart is reeling with sorrow. I haven't seen my children in several weeks and when I attempt to contact my wife via text messages she no longer responds and hasn't done so in four days. I've simply asked about the well being of my boys and asked if she would let them call me.


My struggle has been that these children that I love dearly are getting more time with a stranger than me. Another man is witnessing their lives and hearing there voices. It has been six months on Feb. 8 that I've been away from home. I've missed it so much. There are times that I've laid in bed walking through our home in my mind. Visualizing every step, stain, and mark on the wall. I picture myself home and I'm at peace. But then reality returns and I again see the small dimly lit over-crowded room that has been my refuge. I'm am often reminded of what it must have been like for young King David in the caves as he escaped from those who wanted to take his very life. I enjoy reading the Psalms and many times feel his pain and agony as he desperately sought the Lord for help. David generally starts with the struggle and cries out for the Lord with seemingly no response from God but then God finally answers him and rescues him from his affliction rejoicing in the praise of God's glory


I'm in the stages of crying out with what seems to be no response. My hope is in the fact that the Lord did eventually answer David and come to his rescue. I tell my brother in Christ, I've really cried on this past week sometimes so hard that my stomach cramped form gasping for breath. It was surprising because I though that I had already cried out those painful moments and was only with the swelling of tears from my eyes.


Why do I cry and struggle with agony? Is it because I feel sorry for myself or is it because I'm loosing my grip trying to hold on to the woman that I want to spend the rest of my life with and she seems to be getting further out of my reach.


I heard in church the other day that the natural progression of things is to become cold. I pictured a hot cup of coffee or a fresh hot meal so satisfying when warm but as time goes on it becomes increasingly cold and looses it satisfying flavor. I'm concerned that the longer I go without contact and interaction with my wife, stirring things up, that our relationship however so bad is growing cold to the touch for her as she is warmed and satisfied by another man. That lead me back to agape love. It is my choice to love her that keeps me from growing cold but I'm afraid that she has chosen not to love me.


I'm having a difficult time with the idea that divorce doesn't mean the end. There has been so few times that I've ever seen anyone recover much less desire too. At least for one of the parties anyway. Can anyone overcome a contested divorce? My only hope is in Christ and hope to see the glory of God in the restoration of our marriage and family. I have built up so much of my hope and faith in this event. What if this never comes?


Thanks for taking the time to read and respond. One day I hope to do the same for someone else. It is my hope that I can inspire them because through the power of the spirit God allowed my marriage to be saved.

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Thank you so very much for your prayers, your message, and your encouragement. Encouragement is sometimes hard to come by in my world today. So many like my family choose to tell me to go the other way. They just don't understand.


I'm coming to grips with owning my mistakes and lack of providing my wife with the love she deserved and the love I was called to give. Many times the enemy comes against me to remind me that I can't win. But I know with faith in Christ I have the victory. Even if I cannot manage to win back my wife's heart, which today seems like an even greater challenge than ever before. I must be willing and obedient to reach the promised land.


Not only are me and my wife separated but she has now turned to silence and closed off communication. How do I possibly show love in that situation? And finally, should I just lay down and give her the divorce she so desperately wants?

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Don't worry about being upfront. That's what I'm here for the truth. To answer your question I'm not involved in any porn, emotional affair, or any other situation like that. However, that was not always true in my marriage. About five years ago there was an emotional affair and some form or porn up until the early months of 2006. That's when I realized that it was destroying my life and it was not the road that I wanted to continue on. I felt God speaking to me to destroy all of that material and dispose of it and I obeyed. Don't get me wrong, I've been separated for my wife for six months now and I miss our intimate relationship but I miss her more. I've remained completely faithful during our separation and I'm still dedicated to that to this day.


In 2006, I rededicated my life to Christ and began a long but slow growth phase. I've found that my walk with Christ was not an event but a lifetime journey. I still find that true everyday with how much I've learned and humbled by how much I don't know.


There were periods early in my marriage that I drank a lot of beer from time to time. I felt my life was extremely stressful based on events of the past and I fell into deep depression using beer to temporarily ease my pain. Many times my lack of self control with my tongue got me into a great deal of trouble. I held in a lot of resentment toward my wife because I didn't feel she contributed as much to the management of the household and I had the burden of the finances solely on my shoulders. It was completely wrong and I hurt her with my harsh and unloving words. I'd wish that I had the wisdom of James and tamed my tongue because out of it flows the issues of life. It was not all the time but a little is too much.


Because of my resentment I would withdraw or withhold from her because of my self-confidence issues, derived in early childhood, that is part of my arrested development and lack of trust formed in previous relationships. I've carried it throughout my entire life. Sometimes I can be needy wanting to be reassured and given attention to believe that I matter and that I'm special. However, with that forms a destructive selfishness instead of being a servant leader that God has called me to be. I often struggled because my wife didn't give me the respect I thought I deserved and I sometimes lost my patience. However, at the time I was blind to the fact that I really didn't deserve her respect. And that is exactly what I got. The very thing I didn't want. I hope someday that I can convince with actions to match the words I express when I tell her how much I love her and miss her. There is not a day that goes by that I do not pray for her and our children and for God to complete His work in me.

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HI August,


Keep reading as much as you can on the forums and the books.


How is work going? Many times a guy in your shoes cannot focus on work.


If this is where you are at - your recovery includes focusing in and functioning on the job. Think of how a two year old is immobilized if he cannot find his mother and starts crying in a panic. Growing out of this age is key right now. So, focusing in at work is a key to growing.


Do you not have regular times to see the kids right now? At least with divorce proceedings, you will be legally enabled to see the kids.


You are walking two roads - one, as a dad. Your children need you. Second, as a husband. Though your wife is not receiving text messages, you can still send "bombs" once a week - otherwise known as "small gifts" - ten dollars or less. Flowers or a starbucks card etcetera.


There is a great topic somewhere - in the couples or favorite posts section - about expressions of love for a woman. One says, "Love is Starbucks!"


You are new to this - and need to grow. We don't want you to enable their adultery - but we also don't want your children to be stuck, not having a roof over their heads.


Get on the men's calls - and we need to talk these things through.


On the one hand, you need to win your wife's heart back and save her from herself. On the other hand, the children are being unmercillessly (sp) bludgeoned by your wife exposing them to the adultery.


We need to find the perfect balance for how to accomplish both things - ultimately winning your wife back and restoring the family (after the divorce, no doubt) and rescuing your children.

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Celia - Thanks so much for taking time to join in on my posts. I hope that you will return to provide me with advice. I obviously need a WHOLE lot.


I appreciate you for giving me the link. I've read every single one of them and wish that I could do many for my wife. Over the past year, I did get some of those things right so I was encouraged to know that I was headed in the right direction. Well who am I fooling... I must have done more wrong than right. I believe she had already had an emotional attachment to the other man.


Being separated and her boyfriend living in our house, it is very difficult for me to think of anything to do to get past those barriers. So if you have any specific suggestions or advice. I certain welcome it and I'm a willing student!

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Joel I wanted to wait until after the call tonight before responding to your questions. I'm sure you got a better since of my personal failures this evening and I thank you for your straight forward honesty. It only helps me to further see how I hurt my wife's heart.


Work is going better than it has in the past few months and I've been able to focus more than the earlier days.


I try and see the kids every two weeks but I don't get to see them all. I've tried to ask her to have them call me but she has ignored my request. One of the boys is struggling in school and I've offered to meet him at the library two nights a week to help him. After about four days and three separate attempts, she finally acknowledged my request with as few words possible in a text message. This is our primary form of communication and its fading. Sometimes I want send a message to her but I hold off because of the legal issues.


I've thought about the gifts before but never in the manner you suggested. I suppose I can give it a try if you really think it would make a difference. She'd probably toss it in the trash.


Thanks to you and the other guys on the call tonight for helping me make progress in my responsibility to all of this. It seems like an impossible task at times but I truly in my heart want to succeed in this effort. At the very least, to prevent this from ever happening again or in future relationships if things don't work out.

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August - be willing to give anything a try that Joel recommends, your attitude has to be that of one who is truly willing to lay his life down to prove to her that you do in fact love her in an unconditional way. Agape love is the only chance you have of winning her heart back and then keeping it and growing with her for life. Die to self and love (agape) her. Joel will help to guide you on being Dad and also on how not to unintentionally support her adultery.

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Praying for you and your family August.


I think the statement, "You aren't my friend," is your wife's way of talking out loud to herself. Does that make sense? If you've lied in the past or done wrong, when you do try to be nice or Agape loving towards her, she says this out loud to you, but also so she can convince herself.


This may look like doom, but I see hope in this statement. If she's having to work to convince herself of this, then you can "work" harder to Agape love her to make her question her beliefs.


Brace yourself, you may hear this more than you want to in the upcoming days, especially as you crank up the love, but I just felt led to share this with you......to see it as a positive.


Ornate Design

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Brian thanks for hanging in there with me. Thank you for continuing the message of agape love. I need to hear that. I am bless to have this connection with you. Thanks to your family for sharing you. Please continue to come back. God bless you!


Ornate Design: WOW! I didn't expect to see a message like this tonight. I always come in from work hoping that someone's dropped seeds of wisdom and encouragement and you certainly exceeded my expectation. I was so encouraged by your words and insight that I had read it three consecutive times before stopping. So thank you for this enormous blessing. You just don't realize what you've done for another person. God bless you for your kindness. Please return and I welcome your thoughts whether good or bad.


So...where do I begin as I dump my thoughts for today. I keep busy at work and had a productive day. This was the point in my project that I was able to be creative. My favorite part!


Sometimes during the day a wavered back and forth in my mind between holding on and letting go. Acceptance and denial. I started the morning with prayer because I didn't have a good night before. I had got into a disagreement with a family member who continues to speak negatively about my wife although I've asked many times for them not to do that. I understand what's my wife is doing I have eyes and a brain. But she is still my wife and I love her. They're not hurting her with their words but me instead.


I tried to express that I had to take my responsibility for driving her to this. However, the person expressed that I not fool myself and accept all of the blame. What else can I do? I only have myself to work with and I'm wanting to change. Anyway it wasn't a good experience and lead to an argument. I tried to make peace last night and this morning.


Okay moving on... I sent my wife another text about one of our boys who is not passing 2nd grade. I expressed my desire to my wife that I wanted to help him catch back up and I would meet with him at the library twice a week until he was where he needed to be. After weeks of trying, she finally agreed and accepted my proposal to help him. In as few words as possible I might add but agreement just the same.


I was supposed to meet with him tonight but there was a miscommunication and she didn't bring him. I sat at the library for 1.5 hours and sent another text. When she didn't reply I finally decided to try and call; however, she didn't answer and when it went to voice mail I just hung up. Shortly after I got a text back " U call?" I guess she doesn't want to talk to me anymore. I've tried to ask her to call or request to speak instead of communicating everything through text messages. I mean text messages are great and all but they are not for everything. Must be a reason for that and it make me suspicious.


So since I was at the library waiting, I walked around and found the marriage section. I was disappointed that they seemed to have more books on getting through divorce than saving a marriage. But I found a real jewel among the rocks. "His Needs Her Needs" I sat, read, and learned. God had turned something bad into something good. There was a whole lot of good and valuable information in that book. It gave some informative insight into affairs and the differences between men and women. Why is it that we never know about or read books like these until we're crisis? I can only speak for myself.


I have some nephews that just got married and I couldn't help but want to warn them not to become complacent and focus on the needs of their wives. Here's to being more affectionate to our wives!


Oh yeah...I got my two books this afternoon from Joel and Kathy. So I'm off to hit the books I've got a lot to learn.

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August - don't worry about other people's criticism of the approach that you are taking responsibilty for "driving" your wife to her current state. No doubt she does have some responsibility in this however, it is very mature for you to recognize your responsibility in not loving her and abusing her heart and in effect driving her out of desperation to another. This will help you grow as a man and as a man of God. They are probably defending your "right" to remain immature and selfish because they don't want to face it themselves.


I am glad to hear you have Books #1 & #2 - dig in and start applying everything you can.


Do you know of anything she is currently asking of you for support of her and your children?

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No not really I don't know of anything. Besides there is not much money left over after I pay all her bills and attorney fees.


The thing I'm most concerned with right now is the fact that she absolutely refuses to talk to me. All I get are short text messages. I don't understand. The last time I spoke to her was 2 weeks ago and she just started insulting me when I asked a question about my child. She's all but forgotten about me. Yesterdays news! I'm sure the boyfriend doesn't want her speaking to me.


I've asked a few times if she could call or if we could talk instead of all these text messages. Not everything can be communicated through text messages. Its like she's trying to collect things for her attorney or something. Maybe not but I'm suspicious.


There's not much I can do if she won't ever talk to me and there is a divorce looming in the not so distant future. I feel so helpless. I mean she has made up her mind and she's not looking back. She really doesn't care anything about me or for me. And all I've been doing for the last six months is everything I can to save the marriage. She's done everything but. I really don't know how to work with this anymore. People act like I'm crazy for trying. They say "your a better man than I am." And " I wouldn't stick around for this."


I'm getting to the point that I need to defend my own heart. My expectations are way to high. Someday I hope that I have someone that fights for me as much as I've fought for her. I wish it was her but evidently not. She just wants me to go away and disappear. If it wasn't for the kids, I'd never hear from her again.


She must be happy in her new life with her new man. She's got a life and moving on and I'm stuggling to hold on to something that is not there anymore LOVE! Am I wasting my time and energy? Should I just give up and not look back? I can still learn the material and just accept its over.

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Awesome quote


My Brothers in Christ,


The following post, written by Pure In Heart, tells the beautiful truth of why we are on this road. This is for every one of us. God bless you as you work to bring healing to your wife's heart.


Pure in Heart wrote:

I am not a helper or given to the gift of discerment but what I can palinly see is a man going in the wrong direction. No one is wanting to "beat you up" for the sake of sounding off here. "Faithful, are the wounds of a friend." That is an astounding statement made by Solomon. He learned that a true, genuine friend is one that will not hold back the hard saying just to protect the person's hurt feelings--but would rather wound the flesh to save the soul. Jude says, "with others yank them from the fire and to others show mercy, show mercy mixed with with the fear and reverence of God." Show mercy for their struggle but say the truth.


I am on the other side of this forum. I am divorcing my husband, because like you, I had to hear the truth I NEVER wanted to hear--that God would ask me to offer up to Him my most valuable treasure. I knew if I didn't his selfishness would steal what was left of my heart, and any hope in my boys' lives. What a sad closing statement to 22 years of marriage. Yes, our truths are different. I had to walk away from the love of my life as he chose the path of least resistance. I see you very near and/or walking on this same path. Get off the road that is wide and leads to destruction, and with every fiber in your being cry out to God for the narrow way that leads to life. Cry out in your inability for God to show you the highway of holiness. Cry out for the Father to lead you in the painful way--love. Oh, God is good in that, it is only for a little while and then life breaks through the hardness of our hearts and we are mesmerized as we behold the new heart He puts within us. There is a way that seems right to man. Right to his needs, right to his feelings, right to prop himself up, but the end thereof leads to death.


I read this last reply you wrote and no kidding I wept for your wife and for you. My answer would be to you, "it is too bad that being like Christ is not very appealing to you."


You need to start in the Garden of your Gethsemane and agonize like Jesus did over coming to terms with having to go the Cross and his willingness to die. Jesus was not anyone's victim. No one took His life, the Bible says. He chose to lay it down. No one coerced him or manipulated Him. Love drove him there. You, His creation and child, and the thought of you loving Him drove Him there. You were the joy set before Him.


John 10:17

Therefore, does my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.


John 10:18

No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.


Paul said, "It was for the joy set before Him that Christ endured our sufferings." You are still too busy enduring and being swamped by your own pain. Yes, Jesus had to face the pain he would feel. Then He said, nevertheless, not my will be done, but Your's.


Are your wife and children not a great enough joy? Is the end result your own satisfaction and happiness? Or is it the smile of an eight year old little boy who will one day understand his daddy made the supreme act of love? Not for himself but for the heart and life of his 11 year old son, who is on his way to becoming a young man? Whose greatest blessing will be to know it was him his daddy thought of on the way up that hill to die.


"No greater love has any man than he who lays his life down for another." Will his sacrifice revive the heart of a wife unloved? Would love go to the depths of her pain and fear and rescue her there? Even if he did not cause it? Jesus died and he did not one thing wrong he could be blamed for. Would love take unnecesssary blame and absorb wrong to cover over the flaws of the loved?


Men forget that the response of the recipient of love is awe and abiding adoration that can not be shaken. The loved is filled with gratitude of heart for the sacrifice made on her behalf. A single-hearted devotion and a heart of giving back. Her heart is secure and trusting and she opens it to abandoned intimacy.


Love puts its focus on the object of love. Oh, what joy that brings. To know that a heart so selfish and focused inward could find boundless blessing in the act of giving! In the act of giving life and breath into something dead and cold. Yes, this is the place where love is born. In a cold, lifeless tomb knowing God Himself will breath life into his nostrils as he did with Adam. He unveils in that man the second Adam. "Christ in him, the hope of His glory."


God is not unmindful of the place He asks His sons to go. He is not insensitive and without understanding of its cost. He promises to provide the grace upon grace it will take to follow Him there. God already knows what manner of man is under the ashes of his life. If God thought there was not a true man waiting to be resurrected , why would God bother asking that man to die? Because God knows He is that man's source of life and He will unbury it and make that man His fountain of life to his wife and children.


There is only one command by God wherin a man is told how to love a wife. That command calls him to lay down his life. Period. God would not be harsh or cruel in His asking because He knows that when something dies it multiplies. When death comes it breaks open the deep of our hearts to give and receive love. It exposes the darkness so light can shine in. It breaks our chains, sins are washed away, the soul is healed, and forgiveness flows. These are the rewards. The husband chooses to die a death Jesus already died for him. He is only given the honor of following in His footsteps.


I want so badly for you men to get it. Not because I think you are devalued because of your past failures or sins--but because the world is waiting for the sons of God to be revealed. The whole earth is groaning.

Marriage needs to be recovered for God. One at a time. It can be done.

The alternative you know is a child's broken heart and a wife's dream laid waste. Her heart plundered. The Cross he should have taken up is laid upon her back. Thank God Jesus is never too far away from her and rushes in once again to take that weight off of her.


I pray God opens your eyes. I pray truth floods your soul. I pray you will be brave and strong. I pray your sons would see in you the man they can become because of your example. I pray your wife's heart would soften and know love again. I pray you hear Him say, "Well done, my good and faithful servant."


Your Cross is waiting......

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I want to encourage to read the posts on the forum. There is alot of great help available.


Falling in and out of the rut you are in is normal , but it takes your focus off your wife causing you to lose ground. you need to lay those feelings at the cross. She fought for you throughout the marriage but when the pain of staying became worse then the pain of leaving, she let go. If you stay consistant, your love for her will be appealing.



Check out this video


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Celia - I realize that I should read your first post before writing this but I have to spill my heart for a moment.


First of all thank you for posting something tonight. I really, really, really need it. I'm beginning to think the only people who care is on this forum so I keep coming back for a sense of love a friendly love. I'm not sure what I'd be thinking right now if I didn't have your insight and opinion. I just can't thank you enough. At the same time, I realize that you and your husband have to manage through your own marriage. So to step in and try to help someone is takes a super special person. God Bless...


Its a little after 10 pm where I am and I just got my son after two weeks of not seeing him. Oh how I love this child and I'm so honored that God trusted me enough to guide him for a short time. But I understand who his real Father is in heaven. It truly humbles me when I look at him that way.


I got to see my wife for the first time in approximately a month. We don't always meet each other to exchange the children sometimes I have to go through grandparents. As I mentioned earlier, I had not even spoken to her in weeks not and the only looming memory what her harsh words.


She looked absolutely beautiful, I wanted to hug her and tell her how much I love her but I didn't dare. I felt it all inside like a the pull of a magnet with matching polarity. I wanted to spend more time with her but all I get is a public parking lot and only a few minutes. If my eyes could say I love you they were on over-time. She hugged and kissed our youngest son and I so much wanted to be him at that moment. I even managed to get enough courage to say "What would it take to get one of those" she smiled and said "Be a child like him" I told her I sure wish I could.


As she made her exit, I felt compelled to step around the back side of the car at a safe distance and say " Can I see you again?" Oh how I wanted to hear YES. But she replied with a very similar response, "I'll think about it." This was a consistent reply in the past but I've learn that maybe mean no and I'll think about it also mean no. However this time, I responded a step forward and said, "You always say that." As to imply that the answer, was always the same in the end.


Why does she say that and then not mean them? I have to admit that when she looked at me when I first arrive she had a twinkle in her eyes that I've seen many times past when she desired me. But I take it with a grain of salt because it could have been something else but I know that look.


When she back up to pull away, I stood beside my car and put my hands together as if to pray and blew a kiss her way. As if to say, may God have mercy and I love you His way. She smiled and waved goodbye and then she was gone.


At first I felt really encouraged, like a sudden charge of energy flowed to my body and my mind was filled with endorphins. However, just before getting into the car to leave I had given the phone to my son and dialed his grandmother that he enthusiastically wanted to talk too.


During his conversation, he was telling her all about what the other man was doing and how his two daughters come to visit often and stay with them. Yes, all together. Usually at the mere sound of that name my body would flush and my heart would pound. But this time I felt an unusual sadness and peace as if I were letting go. Not of my usual despair, but one of almost moving beyond my hurt. I thought to myself maybe I'm finally free and have move beyond my grief to acceptance. Acceptance that it was truly over. I just can't take it anymore. I'm still married paying all the bills and these people of playing house and worse than that they are including all their children. What message does this send? How am I suppose to ever get beyond that?


My children spends more time with them than me and are being influenced by this behavior. Everything sound like its going so well and instead of the husband I feel like the third wheel. It's really hard to live with.


Then on my way home, I got a text message. The first thing that crossed my mind was she was finally answering my earlier request and saying "Yes" to seeing me again before getting back to the boyfriend. But to my discouragement, she was sending me a notice to pay her cell phone bills.

That's all I am. I'm the provider with no benefits. I'm just isolated from my whole family and children. It is an awful place to be especially for six months. I've learned a lot and I still have more to go but I question if I'll have the chance to apply it with her.


Sometime I kind of wish in the back of my mind that Joel or Kathy has contacted her and she's secretly reading my posts and watching my progress and loyal commitment to her. But then I tell myself that's impossible she probably wouldn't even care.


Thanks everyone. Please feel free to send me something even to just say Hi if you can think of nothing else. But I'm seriously needing a double portion of faith, hope, love and encouragement.

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Celia the quote you provided above is one of the most amazing things I've ever read. Believe it or not tears started rolling down my face toward the end. But more than that, it defines my purpose and why I have been lead to this calling. Glory to God! We have to save marriages.


Never before have I seen this more clearly than by reading those words. It was inspiring and ever since I was a young boy I have alway wanted to be considered among the Sons of God.


I went to a private Christian school up until high school. We actually used to study the Bible there. I remember studying about the story of Noah in Genesis thanking to myself please God I never want to be like the people of those times that you had to destroy. Help me to see the way clearly in my life.


Thank you so very much for providing what you have to help me. You have been a wonderful blessing to me and I praise God you.

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But I found a real jewel among the rocks. "His Needs Her Needs" I sat, read, and learned.


August - be careful. We have that book too and it does NOT have the life-giving truth of restoration, as J&K's books do. I'm not saying that it's ALL bad, but I (personally) believe that if you're going to jump on-board with J&K and their teachings, you need to commit 100% to their teaching, leaving all other marriage books aside. We NEVER found a book/teaching that set us on the path of healing, until we found J&K - and b/c you're in a vulnerable emotional state, I would just hate to see you mixing & mashing info - trying to glean all you can. J&K's book 1 and 2 are ENOUGH, along with the mentoring calls & the forum.


Oh yeah...I got my two books this afternoon from Joel and Kathy. So I'm off to hit the books I've got a lot to learn.


Atta boy!! :)

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August wrote:

But I found a real jewel among the rocks. "His Needs Her Needs" I sat, read, and learned.



GPP wrote:

August - be careful. We have that book too and it does NOT have the life-giving truth of restoration, as J&K's books do. I'm not saying that it's ALL bad, but I (personally) believe that if you're going to jump on-board with J&K and their teachings, you need to commit 100% to their teaching, leaving all other marriage books aside. We NEVER found a book/teaching that set us on the path of healing, until we found J&K - and b/c you're in a vulnerable emotional state, I would just hate to see you mixing & mashing info - trying to glean all you can. J&K's book 1 and 2 are ENOUGH, along with the mentoring calls & the forum.


August wrote:

Oh yeah...I got my two books this afternoon from Joel and Kathy. So I'm off to hit the books I've got a lot to learn.



i saw GPP's post on your thread and felt i needed to respond.


i am a wounded betrayed wife. my husband (His Crown) has embraced J&K's presentation of God's message in the Summer of 2008 and it has changed our lives. i do not know what our future holds, only God does. but i can tell you, from the perspective of a wife, that this is THE path that enables men to grow up and be the men God called them to be.


i hated that book, His Needs Her Needs. i threw it in the trash.


so, on to the point of my message to you (however, please keep in mind that GPP is a helper on this forum and i am not):


i get wary when told NOT to do things (the rebel in me?), but I think what GPP meant was this:


other MESSAGES/METHODS can get confusing, but keeping with THIS message will get you down the right road.


there are THREE books we found that distinctly parallel J&K's presentation of God's message.


they are:

Discovering The Mind of a Women by Ken Nair (J&K endorse this book)

Do Yourself A Favor: Love Your Wife by H. Page Williams (from the 1970's?)

It's (Almost) All His Fault by Robert Mark Alter


they are all exception books that my husband and I recommend to anyone wanting to learn God's model for marriage. the first two are Christian, the third is secular by a counselor with a terrific writing style.


I think all can be purchased inexpensively on Amazon under the "new and used"


this is a difficult road we are all walking. i never imagined such pain in my life. but God provides resources, alliances, tools with which to grow and learn... books, forums, ministries -


i bought two cases of J&K's book and gave them to hurting couples because i believe their presentation is powerful and succinct. i do believe that they are annointed for this cause and that God is using them powerfully. they are the only book of the four (with this teaching) that offer a forum with support for free, they offer many conference calls, and an affordable Intensive that's worth it's weight in gold.


the Helpers on this forum DO give so much of themselves, they are gifts to all of us too. good for you for seeking and wanting to grow, for not being intimidated into wheat our families or common culture promote. what does God want from you? that's what'll keep you straight.


is there irreparable damage? likely. but that's because our God will not be mocked. somewhere we lost our fear of Him...


we just need to continue to seek Him. without Him, it's just a "to do" list...


walk smart,


Her Crown

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Thanks Wen appreciate the advice. As you know, when your in this situation you'll look for anything that you think might help. Now I shouldn't go so far as to say anything but you know what I mean.


I'm really bummed right now. I feel like I'm under the microscope and have to be perfect just to have my wife say a single word to me. I am an imperfect human being and I cannot be perfect. The biggest emotional difficulty that I'm having is the boyfriend and all our kids getting together playing house. Their living in the house like a big happy family. Like their married. How would that bond really ever be broken? I mean even if I did everything and she decided to go with me she would still be with another man in her heart. Really after a woman does something like this do you think she is honestly saying I'm going to give my husband a chance to win back my heart? Even though I'm preparing my heart and home for another relationship. I mean this isn't casual dating. That would be one thing and this is another.


I can change and I can learn but the wind is not at my back but my face. This would be so much easier without the other relationship. A friend of mines wife told me that my wife was just to far gone to ever turn back. The point of no return. Is that really how it is for women? They get hurt and just never turn back? Even when the other person is going to great lengths to seek restoration.


This would take nothing short of a miracle to turn-around.


I have another question for anyone that would like to answer. I'm told to go looking through the forum and seek help from others situation. But the thing I'm curious of is that I see many in the men's forum who have stopped posting and it didn't necessarily seem that it ended on a good note. Maybe people become less active as time goes by. I'm just trying to honestly prepare my expectations.


Like Kathy said in the first book that she had a vision but what if the vision never came to be. I mean it certainly doesn't if you don't try. Wasn't there something in the depth of everyones heart who've had a successful restoration that they just knew it was going to happen? Has there been anyone that has come back from too far gone?


Thanks for you honest reply.

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This is a quote from David


I have been divorced for 9 days. Since that piece of paper was signed by the judge,I have spent more "quaility" time with my Beautiful wife and precious daughters.We have eaten meals together at home.We went out to eat a Japanese steakhouse together.The significance of that is,it was the last place my Beautiful wife and I went on a date when we were married and living in the same home. I have even spent the night twice.


So, you see,or you should see,that divorce doesn't not end your relationship.It only ends your marriage.Do I think doing this is crazy at times?Absolutely! Do people constantly tell me I am nuts? Absolutely! But you know what Cbad? It might be just crazy enough to win my wife's heart back.


I am already becoming a better Christlike man. Step 1,mission accomplished.I am becoming a better father to all 4 of my children.Step 2,mission accomplished.Step 3,love my Beautiful wife with all my heart and give her back all that I have taken from her,still pending.


I am getting to watch my Beautifull wife and my precious children's hearts being healed and won.I am seeing that through the eyes that my Heavenly Father opened.And from where I am sitting,nothing in this entire world could bring me more joy.


God Bless



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Thank you Her Crown and Celia. I really need the perspective of a woman in my situation.


I have a very straight forward question:


If you were in my wife's situation, you were hurt and got to the point of filing for divorce. You established a new relationship with another man. You kicked your husband out of the house and days later moved your new boyfriend in his place. You not only introduced your children to this new man but now had his children coming over and staying weekends. Your husband has been gone for 6 months and has been required to pay all the bills to support you and your boyfriends lifestyle while you deny to the attorney's that your new man is staying over night.


Your so bitter that you actually enjoy the thought of having him pay for everything. You actually laugh with you new man and friends about your advantage. You no longer attend church and the man your now living with does not live a christian lifestyle. Your having fun, your free, and you have the "in love" feeling (we know this is not real). You have many children. You've been married before.


Over this period of time, you are still have not changed your mind about divorce or had any desire to seek counseling or help to rescue your marriage. Your emotionally gone and because you immediately established a serious relationship you think are fulfilled. You do not talk with your husband except in short text messages. You do not speak on the phone with your husband. You have taken his belonging and put them out in the garage or stuffed them in his closet out of site. All this while you are still legally married to your husband.


At the same time, your husband has been attending classes at a local church in addition to private biblical counseling. He has also sought out and joined a men's marriage mentorship program and is actively reading books along with the Bible. He has been completely faithful during this entire separation. You are aware that he does not want a divorce but reconciliation. You give him no choice and know the courts will grant you the divorce and you will be free from any guilt you may have about your lifestyle. In you mind, you say the children will get used to it and adjust. You just want to forget your past and move on with your life. Your marriage was a mistake. You hope this destroys him.


Now for your honest straight forward answer. Would you ever return to your husband? Would you ever want to go back and face this if you were unwilling to face it now or would you just put it out of your mind and forget it what's done is done? Start all over with this new man.


I desperately need these answers. I have faith in God but not my wife. She is lost and I care about her soul and my children's well-being. I wouldn't be trying to save my marriage otherwise. But I need the truth, so I can mentally prepare and know where I'm headed. I don't want to have false expectations. I want to change myself so this will never happen again but I must admit that I am now skeptical of marriage in our societies today. I wouldn't wish this upon anyone. That is why I believe so much in defending marriage and preparing people before marriage. Not everyone has been properly taught how to be a husband or wife. We study for years to get degrees for our jobs and careers but we are never required to graduate from husband and wife school BEFORE we are married. It should be a requirement for a marriage license.


Thank you for your honest response. I really need your help. I would appreciate as many responses as possible. God bless you and your marriage.

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