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  • 2 weeks later...
Tom,

I just wanted to know how to become Christlike. I went to the intensive and was doing good, but lately too many things to put into words...

 

Hello, it sounds like you are discouraged and need some Godly advice. I understand the intense struggle at times. The enemy is trying to steal, kill and destroy all us men. Our pride and ego is difficult to get over, as you know.

 

My advice to you is to never give up. God will never leave you or forsake you if you are seeking Him with all your heart. Please give it all to Jesus through bible study, devotions and prayer.

 

This is a process and most of us have been so arrested in our emotional development at a young age and it takes time to work through the reactive behaviors that are the result of the damage of childhood.

 

I know you have heard all this through the intensive with J&K and I assume that things aren't going as well as you had hoped for.

Just remember that this does not happen quickly in fact it is a process called sanctification and is a work of a lifetime.

God is refining you through tests and trials to develop you character and to make you a fit citizen for heaven.

 

I really care for you and want to help you in any way that I can. Don't grow weary and give up. Build on your experiences rather there are good or bad.

When you fall learn from that experience and continue on. It does get easier as you make better and better choices as God leads in your life.

 

Keep in touch and write to me and I will pray for you and your journey with Christ.

Your brother in Christ,

Tom

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  • 2 weeks later...

Tom

 

That is a great way to think of the stages of listening to our spouse or former spouse in my case. I can complettely sin when I was in gross sexual sin how I was stuck in the first rung. I think I am somewhere between 3-5 but I dont have a lab to practice it everyday because I am divorced.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Tom

 

I loved what you had to say. I too beleive the key is surrendering every area of our life to the Lord and the more we seek Him the more we find areas that need to be surrendered. When my former wife filed for divorce I beleived the only areas I needed to work on was pornography and sexual sin. Little by little the Lord revealed areas of self discipline, parenting, self pity and fear that my former wife will never come back to me. The truth is that as I have grown closer to Christ it is more apparent than ever how much I need His grace. I also love Oswald devotions because they are so challenging almost to the point of I need a whole year just to work on what he says for todays reading.

 

Thank you for encouraging men and their marriages.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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  • 1 month later...

Tom

 

Great posts on the Biblical affirmations as I do struggle with fear and rejection all my life and especially now as I am divorced.

 

It reminds me of in Romans where God calls things which are not as though they are. Romans 4 17

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  • 2 months later...

hi tom,

I am a wife whose husband has read both books and the Ken Nair book. He has ministered this message to so many men and continues to say he's in agreement with this approach. We have healed in so many ways over these 2 years. However, recently we have been butting heads again. It has escalated and now is really bad. What I am finding is when I sense a negative attitude resembling the past I instatnly feel afraid. When I see a pattern, I say something. It seems to me that when I say something, he very rarely agrees with my perception or feelings. He spends a lot of time talking and convincing me of how it's not the case. He tells me that I'm reading him wrong or that is not what he was doing, or the face he made did not mean anything. I start to second guess myself and wonder if I really am reading him wrong. Maybe I'm too sensitive. I tell him that even if I'm wrong, just reassure me instead of telling me how it's not the case!! grrrr!!! We seem to be stuck here. I am growing more and more hurt. I just read your post on the eight growth areas. It is so true. It prompted me to post for the first time. thanks

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hi tom,

I am a wife whose husband has read both books and the Ken Nair book. He has ministered this message to so many men and continues to say he's in agreement with this approach. We have healed in so many ways over these 2 years. However, recently we have been butting heads again. It has escalated and now is really bad. What I am finding is when I sense a negative attitude resembling the past I instatnly feel afraid. When I see a pattern, I say something. It seems to me that when I say something, he very rarely agrees with my perception or feelings. He spends a lot of time talking and convincing me of how it's not the case. He tells me that I'm reading him wrong or that is not what he was doing, or the face he made did not mean anything. I start to second guess myself and wonder if I really am reading him wrong. Maybe I'm too sensitive. I tell him that even if I'm wrong, just reassure me instead of telling me how it's not the case!! grrrr!!! We seem to be stuck here. I am growing more and more hurt. I just read your post on the eight growth areas. It is so true. It prompted me to post for the first time. thanks

 

Hello Pat,

I'm so glad you posted for the first time!

I split your post off to a new topic "Second Guessing Myself" in the Women Whose Husbands are Working to Win Their Hearts Back forum so you can get some women's insights over there.

I'll let Tom know you've written but I wanted you to know that you should not be second guessing yourself in this area you are his guage, his mirror and if you're not feeling what he's saying then he's not meaning what he's saying - he's just going through the actions.

This is a men's topic so to not hijack it - let's go talk over on your new topic: http://www.joelandkathy.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=1578

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  • 3 weeks later...

I love the list. Thanks Tom.

 

Now, there are so many, I decided to pick a 'favorite.' And further, I have decided to pick 2 with such a long list :)

 

I am a prisoner of Christ (Eph. 3:1; 4:1)

We are all 'owned' and under the authority of God or the Devil. I love that I am HIS prisoner. What wonderful security there is in that knowledge!!!

 

I am an enemy of the devil (1 Pet. 5)

Oh, this feels GOOD!! To have left the devil's 'team' and now be COMPLETLY AGAINST him is a great feeling! That devil lost me to the GENTLE SAVIOR!! Praise Him.. Thank you Lord for loving me and drawing me to YOU! Miracle of Miracles!

 

--

SIDE NOTE: Her Crown is the most amazing woman.. I am one LUCKY DUDE!!!! :wink:

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  • 1 year later...

Tom,

 

Thanks for this great post. This is me! If LRG does evrything just right then all is fine. If she does something that I think wrongs me then I harbor resentment that builds and then I blow! I have decided to follow Christ and ask him to change my heart and cast Satan back to where he belongs.

 

Thanks Again,

 

Blockhead

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  • 2 weeks later...

http://joelandkathy....dpost__p__86686

 

ok, this is the 4th time that I have tried to post this so I'm going to make it short and sweet. I haven't posted in a while because my attitude sucks. C wants me to post everyday and I don't want to. I don't ever have anything to say or write and the stuff I do post is always the same. I know I have a "craptitude" and that you all will nail me to the wall because of it. I have to be transparent if I am going to earn C's trust. I do want to do this and be the husband she needs me to be, I'm stuck right now and know a tantrum is coming if I don't get it out in the open now. Well, that's it. I'm going to try this again and see if it posts. B

 

 

Hi there. I know you don't want to do post and I know it is hard for guys, but it is important.

 

Sometimes in life you have to do things that you think are not necessary, but you will reap the benefit of the "doing" in due season.

 

When my kids were little, I would have them clean their room and do chores...which our kids thought were unnecessary for "kids.'

 

A few months ago, our daughter Jen got a job cleaning houses and she got raving reports from the owners of the house.

 

When she told me about the raving reports, I replied with "Your welcome....and smiled. :D

 

Even if it's a little, just post.

 

This is little more than empty words and I'm tired of hearing them. LOVE me!!! Give me the opportunity to SEE that the life of which I dream is a future reality rather than a fairy tale. You SAY you don't want to listen to the lies anymore and yet, when you have to face something you don't want to you seek them out for comfort. This marriage is dying. I cannot resurrect it. You must choose to feed life into it before it's too late. We are all counting on you. Please don't let us down, again.

 

Faith without Works is DEAD.

 

Talk is cheap without ACTIONS!

 

How about if I say that a little LOUDER.

 

TALK IS CHEAP WITHOUT ACTIONS.

 

That means DOING what she NEEDS you to do, without RESENTMENT!

 

EVERY wife is looking for ACTION. GOD is looking for ACTION.

 

You can do this. You can listen to your wife's heart. You can decide NOT to dwell on yourself and learn to focus OUT.

 

Do you see, that by FOCUSING OUT and FOCUS on your wife and children, that helps you to step out of "selfishness" because you are not being selfish.

 

It seems to me that you have not made the DECISION to live this life. You WANT to live this life, but you have not DECIDED to live this life.

 

I might have told the story at the intensive about the 75 year old man that came to our intensive.

 

He grew up in the Mafia, and that is all he knew. He neither new how to read or write. He had avoided prison on many different occasions.

 

At one point in their marriage, they decided to get out of the Mafia and had to go hide for a season.

 

Their marriage was so bad, that his wife begged him one day to "take her life." She said to him that since you had taken others lives, taking mine should be no problem to you.

 

Then, they found or book. Because he could not read, he had to listen to the book on cd and it changed his life.

 

I asked him, when you got through the book, was it half the battle when YOU decided to live this life.....

 

his reply was, NO, it was the WHOLE BATTLE!

 

Once the DECISION was made, the struggle was over, it was just a matter of walking it out.

 

Jesus wasn't STILL deciding if her was going to lay his life down for the BRIDE while on the way to the CROSS. NO, the DECISION was made in the garden....Father, not my will, but yours.

 

The price is WORTH IT. The results are AMAZING.

 

As I said, while you were here, "make the decision THIS WEEKEND, before you go home....THIS WEEKEND is your Garden of where Jesus made his decision.

 

Father, is there any other way???? Not MY will, but yours.

 

It was JESUS (THE HUSBAND) who went to the cross for the BRIDE. Who laid his life down for the BRIDE.

 

YOU HAVEN'T MADE THE DECISION THAT THIS IS THE LIFE.

 

YOU want the results of THIS LIFE WITHOUT paying the price to get it.

 

The longer you CHOOSE NOT to live this life, the longer it will take to get to an OHM.....IF your wife is STILL waiting and giving you a chance.

 

Sounds like, you are on the verge of falling off the cliff. :sad:

 

Back away from the cliff, lets get back on track and follow what we are telling you ....but not just in WORDS.......ACTIONS PLEASE!

 

Ask her what you can DO, to show her some beginning steps that you are SINCERE.....and

 

DO THEM......PERIOD.

 

I hope you will choose to DO this, before it is too late.

 

Sadly, some guys CHOOSE not to BELIEVE their wife....CHOOSE not to LIVE with their wife in an UNDERSTANDING WAY....choose not to DO the ACTIONS their wife so desperately needs.

 

The way I have been explaining this here lately....is:

 

A wife is in the desert, dehydrating. Her husband has the ability to give her WATER....but instead of giving her WATER, he gives her an Orange or a bananna or something else....ANYTHING but what their wife NEEDS.

 

Remember, Mother/son issues???? Do you really want your Mother/Son issues to conquer you or do you want to conquer your MOTHER/SON issues?

 

Maybe you need to come back to an INTENSIVE. You don't pay us for the Intensive....You obviously pay for the airfair, hotel, food, rental car etc....but not the $590

 

A 2nd time would probably do you some good....ACTUALLY, it would do you some "GREAT."

 

Blessings for now.

 

Here is hoping you CHOOSE LIFE and not DEATH. Choose ye THIS DAY whom YOU will SERVE??? YOURSELF or GOD. If God, then you choose to DO the actions without resentment that your wife NEEDS.

 

Kathy of Joel and Kathy ::love

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  • 10 months later...

Especially for the Guys - Becoming Christ-like!

 

 

I wanted to share with you something that God has showing me and we talked a little about the last time we were all together. I have struggled most of my life in a reactive type emotional way because of wounds that set me up to live in a shame based indentity. If Judy didn't treat me how I thought she should treat me I would become angry and react in negative ways towards her, developing walls of bitterness that would cause her and I both pain and a lose of oneness. Remember what I was saying about how God needs to be our security and He needs to be our identity as we die to ourselves and ask Him to live in us and through us. I found a great text that I wanted to share with all of you that sums this up very nicely.

 

2 Corinthians 3:5 (NIV) "Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God."

 

 

Praise God my competence doesn't come from anything that I do of myself however I have alot to do to in choosing to die to myself or carnal nature and ask Christ to live in me and through me.This is a moment by moment baptism that empowers Christ to live in me and through me. In my past I have been very co-dependent on Judy and what she did or didn't do had a large effect on my my feelings. God is showing me that my competence and security comes first from Christ and then with that power in me I can then agape love my wife as Christ has told me to do. I know longer expect Judy to do certain things and I can overlook my perceieved wrongs that she does to me and be free of bitterness,walls and self-pity. I haven't arrived yet however am seeing amazing things happen in this area as I seek to die to self on a moment by moment basis.

 

I really enjoy being able to reflect on older posts... Thank you

 

 

I encourage you to give 100 percent to God and allow your security and competency to come from Him. This has allowed me to be the man that Christ wants me to be with the supernatural power to agape love my wife as Christ loves the church but remember that this works as long as I am able to use my will to choose to allow Christ to live in me and this means moment by moment surrender of my will to His power. I care about each one of you and am praying for you this week. I am looking forward to our monthly meetings where we can pray and discuss important biblical principals and how they will help in our relationships.

 

Love, Tom

 

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  • 9 months later...

God is amazing! The other night God showed me things about my self and then set me free from the chains of them. God showed me how as a child I became depressed because of a lack of love, no direction, no values, no dicipline given to me by my parents. I felt useless and didn't care about anything. i just wanted to have fun. Getting into porn and just being a ornry kid (around 10) ,being sneaky was filling my life with all sorts of adventure and "fun". God revealed to me that this caused alot of guilt, shame and anger in my life. In years passing I covered all this up with an image of maturity and reponsibility, which I was not. But I believed the lie and lived it out. Now I was just a big fake and didn't know it or care to know. My wife, for the past 22 years has been trying to show me this lie i was in. Well seeking God over the past year or so, and being involved with Joel and Kathy's ministry, God opened my eyes the other night and gave me insight to my sinful past. He lifted this lie and opened my eyes to the "real" me. A true blessing!. Jesus has truely moved in my heart. I feel a true sense of direction with my marriage and my kids. Our walk with Jesus is an every day relationship. I still have alot of work to do in my marriage and kids lives but it feels so much more attainable now. I have been redeemed! God is faithful, if we keep on seeking him, he will answer. Now I must stay obedient to His word and follow Him. Love you guys, stay close to Him, Don

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  • 1 month later...

Hi Men- I struggle just like you with temptations that come from the carnal nature that I was born into. I feel the struggle especially as I have come forward and ask God each day to search my heart and test my mind and point out anything that offends Him and to point me along the paths of everlasting life.

 

The key is to believe and act on that belief by coming to Christ everyday through bible study and prayer. Some of us have busier lives than others but there are ways to get that time in with Christ everyday. It is so important to develop maturity in our emotions and spirtuallity. I pray for each one of you each day because I know the struggle and how hard it is to put to death the pride and ego that permiates each one of us as Satan trys to steal, kill and destroy us. By getting to us men, Satan can destroy whole families.

 

I admonish each of you to go deep into your heart and see if there is any know sin that is holding you back from having that freedom that God wants you to have. I love each one of you. Tom

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