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God Save My Marriage

Please help me see HOPE!! I need you people terribly!!


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This was my reasoning for the e-mail and you all let me have it as to why my thoughts are not correct.

 

God wants YOU to understand those reasons, not your wife! YOU need to understand those things. God is teaching YOU! God wants YOU to grow!

 

It is great that you are learning things about yourself and what you have done. Take that and use it to grow. It is not intended for your wife. You have to accept that!!

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Somewhat like Cbad, but a little different, I know how awesome my wife is as a person and how any guy would be ecstatic to be the recipient of her affections, I am scared my wife will remarry before I will have time to get to where I need to ne to make a difference in her heart and thoughts.

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BW - you are looking for an EXCUSE for your past behavior and the hurt that you put on your wife.

 

Face it, man - there isn't an excuse that will bring her back. Only DRAMATIC change in you, brought about by humility and trust in God, with CONSISTENT behavior with NO EXPECTATIONS of a response from your wife will EVER have a chance!

 

You need to drop the "I was a victim, and it wasn't my fault!" mentality - I had to, also, so I am not speaking without knowledge and experience. I went for YEARS without accepting responsibility for my actions, and until I did, I did not change because NOTHING was MY FAULT.

 

Pray to God to show you the Truth about who you are, and how He views you, even though you were abused. Until you understand what God thinks about you, you will continue to REQUIRE validation from us, your wife, and others. Your value comes from God, not us and not your wife. Get this into your head and your HEART, and you will have made some significant progress!

 

HerDensity

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Thanks folks for hanging with me on that and not blasting me as stupid. I will re-read it again in the morning. Getting bleary eyed. Maybe you could address how I am to "initiate" if that is still an option in my case. BTW the videos I sent home with the kids-- still have not been sent out so she still has them in her house- I presume because she has not watched them yet. I doubt if there is any significance in that- but I will probably be seeing her this weekend when I pick up the kids. I could offer to mail them out or not. Not a big deal either way i suppose but it is the last thing I have been able to "do."

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BW - you don't have much of an opportunity to initiate at this point so what you need to do is always be ready to meet an expressed (verbal or written) need of hers. That is what will show her that you are changing. If you actually give her the space she is asking for, become easy to interact with, help her with the things that she is willing to let you help with then she will see the changes inside you. If you try to engage her in conversations about working on your relationship, asking her if she can see the changes in you and ultimately asking her to slow down on the divorce it will come across as you still being controlling and therefore, you have not changed at all. You must trust her into God's hands and focus on making changes in you and the changes will come as you forget about your needs and focus on meeting any needs she will let you meet and by loving your children and being a good father for them.

 

If you focus on trying to get her to change or do something you are off track. If you focus on meeting her expressed needs you are on track.

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all the strings of women I have read here are of those that had a foundational commitmment to their marriages. Are there any from women who were absolutely done... maybe even gone through the divorce and were getting on with life that turned around that I could read?

 

I contacted my Drs. office about getting meds. I do feel I am pretty deep in depression and even assuming if my marriage were back together it would fix it. But what if it didn't? I have a feeling that the dark cloud hanging over my head right now would / may be sabotaging any chance of having success- even if given the opportunity. When I am like this (been here in the past) I am a life sucking parasite. I have NO JOY! And certainly nothing to GIVE!

 

How easy is it to see that on someone's face?

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Belovedwarrior,

 

You sent a private message to me as follows:

 

You wrote...Cbad,

 

Quote:

I think J&K do take divorce too lightly! When they say, "divorce is only a piece of paper"

 

 

I'm not about to speak for J&K, but I believe if I heard them say that, I could understand it in a much different way than you are. I would interpret that to mean it is not to late to restore your family, even AFTER divorce.

 

In my case, my husband and I were separated nearly 2 years. For a year and a half of that, I KNOW if I would have seen anything consistent on his behalf that it would be any different, our situation would have turned out different -- we would not be divorced. Unfortunately, he waffled. I do believe there were times he was sincere, but the actions didn't follow, and even if there were actions, they were fleeting and then it was back to the same old selfish nature. He showed me that I would be inviting that same pain and misery into my life that I had taken courageous steps to remove. After about a year and a half of separation, that door was definitely shut and the divorce was going to happen.

 

Quote:

In my case my wife an I will probably loose everything i.e. finances, family, children picking sides etc.

 

 

That is exactly what happened in our case. My ex-husband is definitely not doing well financially. I am struggling under the midst of legal bills, and yes, even the children picking sides. Unfortunately in our case, my ex-husband is the one that placed the children in the position to pick sides by him needing "loyalty" from them as a condition of his love. Yes, our family was severely severed. My dream since being a young girl of having a family of my own with children and grandchildren to delight in at gatherings, holidays, sharing life, all with a husband by my side is dead. Even in light of that, stepping back into that abuse that I finally had the courage to face and challenge and step out of would have not just killed my dream, it would have killed me! If not physically, although there were definite signs headed in that direction, definitely spiritually and mentally. I promise you, your wife is not oblivious to what she is losing. Unfortunately, it seems the risk and pain of stepping back into togetherness with you is greater than the loss of the unity of her family. That should be a mighty statement to any man that has brought his wife to that point.

 

So back to that statement: divorce is just a piece of paper. Here I sit today divorced. Yep, I hold that piece of "paper." The "paper" removed that final level of control he wielded over me. The paper, however, could not remove the tenderness in my heart I can still feel for him. Boy, if he were to begin pursuing me today?? Hmmmm. It would be mighty scary. However, if he had Christ as his center instead of himself as his center (his pain, his wants, his needs) my heart would be restored to him. That is a pretty big "if" though. So, therein lies any casualness attached to a statement such as "its just a piece of paper."

 

Cbad, I hear so much of my ex-husband in you. Sadly, he too had childhood traumas that have so severely crippled his development. It amazes me how he can take nearly everything positive and turn it negative immediately. It amazes me that his biggest fear is not being loved and being alone, and yet he does the very things that will insure that. I so desire for him to surrender himself to Christ's love, removing the shame and guilt that rules his world, and see himself as Christ sees him -- worthy. Until he puts Christ as that center, he will never be able to break free of those woundings from childhood and will not be able to properly love those around him or even receive true love from those around him. He is the one blocking the very thing he desires. Die to self, surrender ALL, including the past, to Christ and the promise is great!

 

The power to restore our family has ALWAYS been in my now ex-husband's hands -- still is. And he, like you, would refute that statement. However,

 

You wrote just 2 days ago:

 

Quote:

I will point out that my wife was responding to my efforts over the past 5 months i.e. she really liked some of the gifts and the fact I'm taking care of her financially but she did say to me last week that my core character was not changing!

 

 

See, she shows you that same tenderness in her heart toward you that I spoke of in my case earlier. Unfortunately, she sees much that shows her you are not safe. She shared a lot in that statement. Now, what will you do with that? Own it, or make an excuse for it?

 

Quote:

My core is not changing because of the severity of my arrested development. I'm still protecting myself from pain that I associate with my wounded past! Fixing this problem is so important to me that I've cleaned out my life saving so I can attend intense therapy at the end of this month!

 

 

Good for you! You are right that self-protection can destroy. Don't let the severity of your past be your excuse though. Let that knowledge and understanding be a tool for moving into the future. That was where you were, but the biggest question is -- where do you want to be tomorrow? Where do you want to be a year from now? Still holding on to those woundings or healed?

 

Cbad, two days ago you sounded hopeful, now you are back to arguing about divorce or what this person said or that person said and how this was wrong or that was wrong. It is a roller coaster -- one that I'm sure your wife wants off. Not because she doesn't love you, but because you continue to take her on a ride she can't endure. Don't you want off too? There is a peaceful boat ride on calm waters right around the corner you both could hop on. You need to lead the way. The price of the ticket: total surrender and death.

 

My God is the God of miracles! In my case, He is showing infinite mercy on my ex-husband by keeping that tender place open in my heart for him for a season -- even with the "papers" already signed. But the matter of free will still stands. As has been the case for the past 2 years, my ex-husband still can choose. And yes, it will be harder now. However, if he continues to negate God's desire for him, I believe God, in His time, will release me from that special tenderness. I don't know how long this season is, but His timing is always perfect as I keep my eyes and heart on Him. God also shows his infinite mercy on me. God is showing infinite mercy on you too Cbad with the evident tenderness your wife is still able to respond to you with. Each day you delay, Cbad, the road gets a little harder with respect to your marriage and your family. Their woundings get bigger and your work as the husband and father to bring life and healing to them gets harder. However, here is the hope: God entrusted your wife and kids to YOU. Not someone else -- YOU. What an awesome responsibility He entrusted to you. All by His design. He doesn't make mistakes.

I would like to invite you to my post at "Help me see hope" and talk to you more if you are up to it. Specifically I would like to know how you as a woman "see things" I only see my wife a few minutes every other sometime two weekends in a row. Can she "see" anything in me in that brief time? She is also dating.

 

First of all, I don't private message with men and you should not private message a woman, and certainly not a single woman. No matter what you say your intentions were, it is clearly stated all over these boards that is a no-no -- and for good reason.

 

God's Mighty Soldier posted to you this morning and it was an awesome post that answered the question above. Here it is again:

 

BW - you don't have much of an opportunity to initiate at this point so what you need to do is always be ready to meet an expressed (verbal or written) need of hers. That is what will show her that you are changing. If you actually give her the space she is asking for, become easy to interact with, help her with the things that she is willing to let you help with then she will see the changes inside you. If you try to engage her in conversations about working on your relationship, asking her if she can see the changes in you and ultimately asking her to slow down on the divorce it will come across as you still being controlling and therefore, you have not changed at all. You must trust her into God's hands and focus on making changes in you and the changes will come as you forget about your needs and focus on meeting any needs she will let you meet and by loving your children and being a good father for them.

 

If you focus on trying to get her to change or do something you are off track. If you focus on meeting her expressed needs you are on track.

 

How will she "see?" Women are relational beings, gifted in seeing the depths of the heart sometimes, especially endowed with that gift with respect to our husbands. If you are are focusing on doing something so she will see the change in you or trying to get her to change her mind, ultimately that is still self-focus. It is still what you want and what you will get out of it. When you get down to the heart of it and just work on being the man called you to be, she will see. I don't imagine that is something a man can fully understand as God made us different in that respect but it just is. A woman can "see."

 

You have received awesome advice from a lot of people on your string and they continue to say the same thing over and over again.

 

In Him,

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Alright point well taken I apologize for breaking protocol. I am sorry I can understand how you felt that way I will not do it again.

 

Secondly, I am on the back side of my first dose of anti-anxiety meds and feeling much less fearful, anxious and insecure about everything. I know that I know God loves both me and my wife deeply and He has good plans for us. He will protect her, minister to her and give her insight.

 

I can see how my emotions / feelings of fear, anxiety, pain, abandonment, rejection were so powerful all I wanted to do was deaden the pain by making her make it go away I don't feel that right now. I actually feel compassion for her- especially regarding the uncertainty she has to face regarding what is "out there" in the big bad world of new relationships and who is trustworthy.

 

Eeyore / Looney Tunes, Gaining Hope I think this is for you all.

I do want to ask you guys some advice. Tomorrow I get my "magic" 20 minutes and to tell you the truth I have not ever felt comfortable addressing my wife by her birthname ever since I attached my "pet" name to her unless we were out in mixed company and even then it did not feel right. She adores the pet name I have for her and was thinking seriously about addressing her with it tomorrow when I pick the kids up. Something along the lines of "Hey__________ how are you?" and if she says "don't call me that" I could honestly from my heart (without the fear and anxiety in my voice) say, "I am sorry, I know I have caused you a great deal of pain in the past and I can understand why you feel I have lost the privilege to call you that right now, but I just don't like thinking of you as anything but pet name.

 

Thoughts on this? Do I have anything to lose instead of continuing to act as if I am afraid of my own shadow when I am around her? Or should I confidently try and engage her heart and be bold?

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BW, you wrote, asking if you should say something to your wife:

 

....but I just don't like thinking of you as anything but pet name.

 

Game show - what's the operative and wrong word / attitude?

 

That's right: I

 

You would be telegraphing to her that what's most important to you is that you like calling her by her pet name. It's on your terms still.

 

Remember how walkingwithhim cites that women are very relational? This is very true. (In general....however, the reason why generalizations exist is that they are based in truth.)

 

Your wife will immediately pick up on your more self-centered desire to call her what you love to call her, regardless of her desires.

 

Once this stuff starts geling for you, it will become easy. You will be more able to understand things from her perspective then. You will be more other-centered, and less self-centered. In other words, there will be more of Christ and less of you....which is the goal.

 

Good job for pondering and posing the questions. Now the trick is to absorb the answers. Not easy...but you are trying....which is noble.

 

Love and truth, peace and forgiveness,

Abigail

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BW - you are asking for permission to antagonize your wife, the love of your life, into a state of anger and resentment for your own purposes.

 

I do NOT think that you will find support for that here.

 

What you do is your choice and YOU will be the one to live with the consequences, so either DIE to your desires, or do what you want...

 

Someday, we will hopefully begin to see less of "Me, Me, Me" in your posts...

 

HerDensity

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just so you know I am getting past my "suffocating pain" and obsession to "fix my marriage" for my benefit and pain relief and have come to the conclusion that not only is my wife's heart closed to me- but probably turned in a different direction altogether. I cannot see how picking the kids up- not engaging her in conversation whatsoever, is Christlike. He does not give up on us- trying to touch our hearts- rekindle a love through sentimental memories. Me addressing my wife as "honeybear" is just that- reminding her of a better time. If you all feel that is a bad idea- I won't do it but becoming Christlike as I serve my wife and listen to her heart isn't happening either.

 

I pray for her, my kids and I as individuals. I pray that God's best for us would be manifest in our lives and we would here his voice and our hearts would submit and grab ahold of it. That our hearts would be protected from the enemy and our minds from deception.

 

I was just suggesting what I thought was a low key way of "initiating." That regardless the outcome I could still show Christlikeness in my response. I know I am not the most tactful communicator most of the time especially in the written words but my intention was to say it very tenderly, very sincere, and with the tone of voice that a heart felt greating of joy carries with it (and no personal pain) - not an antagonistic tone at all.

 

Does this help at all or is it still a bad idea? Just tell me....

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Still a bad idea...

 

If this was our situation, it would make me shut my heart up even more. Christ does not harass us, annoy us, badger us, remind us of the past, demand His way, or manipulate.

 

Being Christ-like is all about DYING!! You have got to stop using the process as an excuse to get your way. "Well, I am just trying to initiate!"

 

Christ did not look back as He was on His way up the hill to say, "Look at me! Aren't I doing a wonderful thing for you? Don't you love me even more?" NO! He went, he was spat upon, he was hated. Yet he went anyway... that is what Christ did. Are you willing to do that?

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SMALL STRAWS IN A SOFT WIND by Marsha Burns -- August 21, 2009:

 

I am opening the recesses of your heart to reveal the basis for attitudes and motivations that are detrimental to your relationship with Me and with others. As you look honestly at what I show you there is a great opportunity for healing of things that have rooted themselves deeply in your soul. Now is a time when you can gain much needed liberty of body, soul and spirit. Allow Me to do this deep work in you, says the Lord.

 

Acts 10:38 ...God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.

 

This is from my latest devotional / prophesy.

 

I will do whatever you folks tell me is the right way to handle my thoughts and attitudes. If you have noticed I can tend to be a bit impulsive, but at least that has been submitted to the counsel I am receiving here. Having lived all my life doing what I felt was right- I know now it wasn't but I still need to learn what is- that is why I ask. It is very easy to convince myself "thoughts in my head that sound good" to be the voice of the Holy Ghost right now.

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Reminder: The husband....the man....is called to be like Christ within the special subset of relationship of marriage. (This is the most important subset that God devised, btw.)

 

The wife is not called to be like Christ. Apples and oranges.....and context is important....meaning, outside of the marriage relationship, women are called to be Christlike too, but within the marriage, especially in the healing stage, during which the husband is growing up and out of his childish self-centeredness, it is only the husband that is called to be Christlike.

 

Eph. 5:25 and 1 Peter 3:7 are just 2 of the scriptures, among the dozens, that address the husband / wife relationship.

 

Btw, in Eph. 5, 5/6 of the text is instruction for the husbands, whereas only 1/6 of the text is instruction to the wives. What does that tell you about God's design and His ways on who is more responsible for the state of the marriage?

 

That's right - the husband. He gave men the great gifties of testosterone and their various body parts. With each great gift comes great responsibility. This is the way that God designs things.

 

The problem today (and throughout the ages, actually) is that men want to cherry pick and indulge in all the good gifts, while at the same time, abdicate the responsibilities that go along with those gifts. This is a chief reason why men (and women too....but again, it is apples and oranges), stay childish and self-centered.

 

Praise God that you are here now. You are trying to learn, understand, grow, and change. It is no accident that you are here.

 

Love and truth, peace and forgiveness,

Abigail

 

PS: Imho, you have not yet incorporated the proper spirit within you to be able to convey to your wife that your term of endearment to her is coming from a giving, unselfish place. You will get there with study, some hard work,* and time. Don't give up. Keep going. Your children will benefit.

 

* Some men "get" this stuff quicker than others. It is dependent on how willing you are to submit your own self-sufficiency and old, broken, controlling ways to God....and how willing you are to obey His ways, even before you "feel" them.

 

In general, men learn by doing first...and then the feelings follow, whereas, in general, women learn by feeling first and then doing.

 

Another difference between the genders, as God made it in His perfect plans: Men change and grow by being challenged, whereas women change and grow by being cherished.

 

Remember context is important: We are referring to the man / woman marriage relationship...a distinct and particular subset.

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I will just say this:

I get the impression that you saying very little to your wife (for a season) will speak more to her heart that anything that will come out of your mouth.

 

NOTHING that you say (this is for all guys, not just you) will fix your wife's heart - NOTHING. Our ACTIONS fix our wives' hearts - CONSISTENT, gentle, Christ-like actions, over time.

 

You have a challenge given the amount of time that you actually get to spend around your wife, I understand that. But, that's reality, and you can't change that.

 

HerDensity

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Hey BW,

 

I was typing while you posted your latest, so I did not read your before I composed mine.

 

Very interesting: You posted that you are open to instruction before you were able to read that which I wrote to you. This is a good indicator.

 

HerDensity's advise to you is very good...feels spirit led to me.

 

If you continue to develop your relationship with Jesus, then you will be more able to figure out, on your own (it's actually not you....it's God leading you), the things that will minister to your wife.

 

It is not an easy thing...this dying to oneself....we are here to help you.

 

Blessings,

Abigail

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Bw, you said:

 

I was just suggesting what I thought was a low key way of "initiating."

 

GMS said to you in an earlier post:

"you don't have much of an opportunity to initiate at this point so what you need to do is always be ready to meet an expressed (verbal or written) need of hers. That is what will show her that you are changing. If you actually give her the space she is asking for, become easy to interact with, help her with the things that she is willing to let you help with then she will see the changes inside you. If you try to engage her in conversations about working on your relationship, asking her if she can see the changes in you and ultimately asking her to slow down on the divorce it will come across as you still being controlling and therefore, you have not changed at all. You must trust her into God's hands and focus on making changes in you and the changes will come as you forget about your needs and focus on meeting any needs she will let you meet and by loving your children and being a good father for them.

 

If you focus on trying to get her to change or do something you are off track. If you focus on meeting her expressed needs you are on track.

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All I said to her was:

I heard you say you need me to be leave you alone, give you space, and to let you go. Leaving you alone and giving you space I can and will honor, letting you go on the other hand is much more difficult because honestly there is nothing you can say, nothing you can do or anything that can happen to you that will cause me to stop loving you.

 

Now from what I have learned women have this supernatural intuition to know a man's heart and over time through my actions you will be able to determine if I am sincere or not. I will not try to influence your life or change your mind in anyway from here on.

 

And she said, "Thanks."

 

I still get a bit tongue tied when I am around her- I wanted to apologize for trying to engage her in friendly conversation last week when I asked her about what she was doing this weekend and wanted me to pick the kids up one day early as I know I have caused her too much pain to enjoy even that level of intimacy, but went blank.

 

I wanted to add that I know God has plans for each of us and I am praying that she experience God's best in her life but forgot to say this as well.

 

So was I out of line? Did I screw up? pressure her? Blow an opportunity? Say something wrong?

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From here on out it is me focusing on Jesus and the kids. There has to be something somewhere in her heart that if nothing else thinks I am good for the kids. She is still allowing my two middle step girls come with my son on weekends- maybe someday down the road this will grow into something more- then again maybe not.

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If you try to engage her in conversations about working on your relationship, asking her if she can see the changes in you and ultimately asking her to slow down on the divorce it will come across as you still being controlling and therefore, you have not changed at all. You must trust her into God's hands and focus on making changes in you and the changes will come as you forget about your needs and focus on meeting any needs she will let you meet and by loving your children and being a good father for them.

 

This is exactly what I did in my mind. I said although I will always love you- you are free from my influence. Please tell me I did this without the control and manipulation she has become hypersensitive to through our past.

 

In addition, is becoming Christlike anything more than feeding my Spirit so that it becomes the dominate force driving my soul?

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