Working for her

[Kay]

Peter,

 

Hoping for Sunshine brought out some more truth for you to swallow, and I hope that you are eagerly learning from it, and not rolling your eyes or getting annoyed. Remember, we are here to help you, because we want you to win your wife's heart back and reach that OHM!

 

With that in mind, I do want to give you some Kudo's. You ARE fighting for your wife, which is a heck of a lot more than an lot of bad husbands do. You DID pack up everything from your Country and move here in order to fight for your Marriage. It's actions like these that WILL save your Marriage in the end. Yes, you miss India, but you proved that your wife is still more important. Right now, however, you must put these prideful feelings on the back burner, because your wife's hurts are more important.

 

Joanna is afraid that if she opens up her heart and thanks you for what you have done, that you'll be all over her, pushing it down her throat. So what does she do? She keeps her distance and watches. She is doing exactly what her heart is allowing her to do. Keeping it guarded. AS you stay consistent, her heart will open up more and more.

 

You are growing. Just make sure that your actions follow your words, and you both will continue to move forward on the road to happiness.

 

Praying for your family,

Kay

[Joanna means gift]

I must interject here - Peter is not from India. In fact, he should recall that while we were there, he was miserable with cultural adaptation. I used to spend hours talking to him about how to cope with the confusing things around us - my mother can testify as a second witness to this fact, since she lived with us for 4 weeks and 7 weeks and was one of the people involved in these discussions. I personally think his pride says he misses India, but his soul is glad to be back where he was brought up and where his whole being is comfortable. I think that his "culture shock" is more of his pride - if he tells everyone that he misses India, they think he is such a good missionary, that he was forced to leave a situation in which he was thriving. It is simply not true - the very day before I left him, he was talking about how he hoped that God would call him to a new place to have a fresh start, ironically. I have a journal entry about it. He went around the house and spoke of how he could leave all of it behind.

 

Anyway, I still feel that finally reaching the point where for the sake of his marriage, he left India is good, but it is not as good as he makes it out to be. And my testimony is consistent with the character that all of us see.

 

Joanna

[Joanna means gift]

By the way, Peter, I agree with everything these ladies have said about how my heart needs action and consistency. And how I can smell your pride.

 

Example - you mowed my lawn but immediately wanted to arrange for someone else to do it as a paid thing. Yet, I want you to do it as an act of humility, every time. Prove you are not arrogant.

 

Example - you continue to criticise my financial decisions when I am making very wise decisions with lots of input from people who know far more than you about real estate and investments. It is only your pride that makes you question me - that I would not involve you in the decision. I cannot involve you until you have my and the girls' best interests in mind!!!!!!

 

Joanna

[Joanna means gift]

Since you asked in the phone call last night about how I can hear from God, I thought maybe it would help to let you in on my relationship with him.

 

In the past, I have cried to him for mercy as your abuse of me absolutely destroyed me. I remember asking him why he didn't love me (not stopping this pain) and why he loved you (letting you continue to sin aginst me day after day). I even told you that one night.

 

As I continued my journey with Him, determined to learn what it means to cling to his promises in the midst of suffering and do everything according to his plans and timing, not my own. I used to cry after sex (when you fell asleep) as I was more lonely after sex than I was the rest of the time. None of my emotional and spiritual needs were met, and they were deep. Sometimes, he would lead me to the Psalms and David would speak my words of anguish as I cried softly next to you. Sometimes, he would ask me to meditate on a snapshot of Jeuss and he would show me that Jesus was right there with me. Jesus would be in the locked room in John 20:19 and he would say, "Peace be with you," or he would have me on the boat on the sea of Galilee and while everyone around me was scared of the storm, he held me in his arms, asleep in the bow.

 

Some nights, he would warn me in a dream that you were acting out and I would wake up and see you not in the bed. Sometimes, he would tell me that you had invited demons in to our home (with your sin) and I would go and pray them out of the house.

 

One night, on January 1, when I was calling out to him, he led me to a passage about divorce and made me feel at peace about being allowed to leave you. I spent the rest of that week researching the Bible and (interestingly) online seminary sites to ensure that this was not just my imagination, but as Joel and Kathy said in the Intensive, the word of God is clear about how your pornography is infidelity and that is grounds for divorce. Besides, you have dealt treacherously with me and in Malachi that is why he allows me to leave you.

 

However, he still told me to wait. And I cried out for mercy. There was something about your treatment of me that got worse as the months passed from the time we met with the counsellors in Colorado. Now, I know that it was because addicts just transfer their behaviours and act out in new ways when not being medicated. And now I know that you need to deal with your past crap before you are not under compulsion to act out. Or die to yourself and live in Christ.

 

Then, when I was talking to Cynthia on the phone one day, I totally broke down and cried and said that our marriage was in trouble. She felt so safe to me and we prayed about what I should do. She and Vijila and Jenn and Rob were instrumental in helping me to see that I had reached a breaking point and needed to go home to receive healing. All of them agreed that I needed to call our bosses and let them know the situation. During that whole week, God led me to so many passages which reassured me that I needed to bring that which was in the dark into the light. That neither of us would ever get healed as long as I simply bore the pain and consequences of your sin.

 

The night before I left, I was awake after sex again. I took out the Bible and God showed me passages that I had read over and over again and showed me that he was now rescuing me and he would take care of everything. I just needed to trust him. My whole trip home from India was God-led. People to help were right there every step of the way. And as I cried about what I left behind - my entire ministry to so many women and children, he showed me that I was to seek his kingdom and obey him first and he would reward my obedience with his care.

 

You wanted to know if I would have left without help. YES. Before the people came from Pune, I was prepared to leave without their help, but we all agreed that meeting with you would be best. They hoped for your immediate repentance. I can prove with documentation that [our boss] bought my tickets. Everyone was fully supportive of my decision.

 

I hope this helps you understand my heart.

Joanna

[Peter]

Please stop telling me how I feel. I spent my life preparing for life and work in a developing country. My entire training and focus is in a disease that is exclusively present in poor countries! I am not comfortable back here in Canada at all. I hate this country and everything it stands for.

 

60 people showed up to a farewell dinner in which my sudden disappearance was met with shock and tears. I have worked to develop programs and projects that will fall apart without me being there. Our church family was deeply disturbed that we were leaving. I had struggles with the culture, but I was certainly not interested in leaving the relationships that I had worked hard to develop over three years. My lab colleague is just now starting to connect with me and share the work more evenly. I am just starting to make progress on so many levels in India.

 

I left India twice for her. Once to follow her home with a three month opportunity to get well and get back to our work, and then once for good for the sake of our marriage. I have made a decision to not give up on our broken marriage, that does not make me happy to leave behind what we had developed.

 

This website is not a popularity contest. I am not trying to get sympathy from a bunch of anonymous people I will never meet. I am not winning votes in an election. Please do not tell me I am happy to leave my job and question my love for India. God led us there through a miraculous visa and the sponsorship of a large number of Christians across the country. We joined an organization we believed in, and they in us.

 

I am not trying to say the marriage destruction was not my fault, because is was. I just can't listen to her say that I wanted to leave.

[Kay]

Peter,

 

Sound to me like you have plans..... to win your wive's heart back (your way) and then take her right back to where YOU want to live - India.

 

Your wife just shared her heart with you because she thought that you were safe to do so. You just proved, by your post above, that you are NOT safe at all. You are a cannon ready to explode, and by your post above, it looks like it's starting to leak out again.

 

You keep this attitude, and you WILL be soon be answering to a judge. You don't have to like us, or listen to us. You don't have to do this program. You can move back to India and regain all the control that you had there. You can meet up with the people that were so heart broken to see you leave. You can have all these things back. But, you won't be a Married man. You will be a divorced, single guy.

 

Perhaps, this is what you want? You are one lucky guy that your wife is even talking to you.

 

Wow, and here I thought that you were getting this a little bit ?? I was fooled, but guess what? You're wife was not. She knows you.

 

Joanna - You're doing fine. Don't respond to these immature outbursts. He just acted like a 2 year old.

 

Hang in there, gf.

Kay

[gms]

Peter - she has obviously touched on a deep nerve in you. Slow down for just a second.

 

You said:

I spent my life preparing for life and work in a developing country. My entire training and focus is in a disease that is exclusively present in poor countries!

 

Could God be redirecting you for a season because in your zeal for "ministry" you abandoned you wife? How do you know that if you really get your priorities right: 1st God, 2nd Joanna, 3rd your children, 4th everyone else including minsitry work, He won't send you back into ministry more equipped/better prepared.

 

I am not comfortable back here in Canada at all. I hate this country and everything it stands for.

 

Aren't there people in Canada who need to know that there is a Savior who loves them and died for them? You sound like Jonah...

 

I have worked to develop programs and projects that will fall apart without me being there.

 

God's work never depends on you specifically being there. After Moses (the irreplacable one) died God said, "my servant Moses is dead, now you (Joshua) will lead this people." Like God told Elijah when he said, "I alone follow you", God said, "I have reserved for myself 7000 who have not bended their knee to Baal that you know nothing about. Like when Mordecai told Esther to go to the King with Ammon's plan and Esther pushed back and said; "I can't just go in there" and Mordecai said, "if you choose not to go, God will raise up deliverance from another quarter..." Trust me you can be replaced at any time in God's work, because it isn't dependent upon you individually.

 

 

Our church family was deeply disturbed that we were leaving.

 

Understandably, they love you and you love them they are going to miss you and I am sure there are also some who know what had gone on that are disappointed in your behavior that drove your wife to flee. Your immediate repentance, if that had happened, sounds like it could have prevented this from happening.

 

 

 

I had struggles with the culture, but I was certainly not interested in leaving the relationships that I had worked hard to develop over three years

 

Are you willing to work at least this hard on developing/repairing your relationship of 20 years with your wife?

 

My lab colleague is just now starting to connect with me and share the work more evenly. I am just starting to make progress on so many levels in India.

 

Again, God is able to raise someone up to help in your absence. If there is progress it is because of His work in and through you and He is still there working eventhough you are not.

 

 

This website is not a popularity contest.

 

Too right, we don't care about popularity, which is why you are going to get some straight shooting, no punches pulled, real life truth to chew on and digest. We don't care who you are and at the same time we know that you are a child of our Great God and we long to see you grow up, love your wife, restore your marriage so that you can be better equipped for whatever the Lord has for you. We also long to see your wife and children healed from your heinous abuse of them.

 

Listen up Peter, like Nathan said to David, "you are the man!" Own up to it and repent before it is too late.

[Peter]

Let me explain something to Kay. My wife is a missionary and has been since the age of 4 when she committed her life to serving God in a difficult place. When we met, she only gave me a second glance because I was also interested in mission work. She thrived in India, and misses her ministry, as she says above. She was not there against her will and she was not there to simply follow me. She is more committed to overseas ministry than I am. If this has changed, she can post here but I know who I married and she is a missionary in her heart.

 

She is wounded by my actions. I can see in her post that she did actually struggle before making the decision to leave me. Unfortunately, I was completely unaware that she had this struggle. We have very different perceptions of what our mission agency arrived to do on the day she left. There was no talk whatsoever about repentance. After she left, there was a lot of talk, however nothing about this. A very senior missionary told me to go home and get my marriage straightened out, but there was no blaming.

 

I am not planning to win her back and then take her to India or anywhere else as a prisoner. I am planning to win her back and heal her heart, and then try to make sense of who we are now, where we are supposed to be, what happened to God's call in our lives, and what our future will hold.

 

She called and offered to meet me but I am not ready yet. Her indifference to me is too hard to take at this point. I cannot make small talk with her yet. I am afraid I will say something wrong.

[Kay]

Peter,

 

It really doesn't matter what I think, does it ? Let's just concentrate on your goal here, and that is healing your wife's heart. What I think does not matter. What Joanna thinks, does.

 

Brian posted above, but yet, you ignored what he said, and focused on defending yourself from me.

 

Sure, I don't know the facts, but who cares. You are here to learn HOW to win your wife's heart back. You are the student, and paying attention could really help you figure this out. It's not that hard!

 

I am afraid I will say something wrong.

 

L = Listen O = Offer an Apology V = Validate E = (You're not at this stage yet, so I'm guessing the "embrace" won't work, instead, "encourage" her to say what's in her heart, cause you ARE safe and won't verbally attack her, or defend yourself.

 

We are not your enemy. We are here to try to help you, cause we care.

 

So, next time, before going off and defending yourself from something that is said against you, take a deep breathe and think, what will Joanna think if she reads what I about to post?

 

When you are ready to put your feelings on the back burner, then, maybe, you can bring on some healing. Until that time, your wife will continue to hurt. Is this what you want ?

 

Go read Joanna's posts again, and try to respond by using the L.O.V.E. message. It will be good practice for you, if you truly want to learn.

 

Kay

[gms]

Joanna wrote:

He started abusing me in our dating life, first sexually, then emotionally, 20 years ago

 

His family has always spiritually abused me by acting as if their faith is superior to mine. And they have never believed I am "good enough" for Peter. Now, his mother treats me like she is my judge and jury every time I see her and reminds me that she is a better Christian and therefore if I do something that she thinks is wrong (like live separately from her "perfect" son), I am wrong.

 

I am spending time each day gaining strength from the living God who loves me unconditionally. I could not possibly survive parenting two incredibly hurt children without His strength.

 

Our dd8 was emotionally and verbally abused by my husband as well. She suffers from anxiety and perfectionism. I have successfully convinced her that her only job is to be a kid and stop trying to take care of me (she used to stay awake listening to us fight and pray for us and try so hard to "take care" of me)

 

Even our dd5 says that she would pray for us when she awoke in the middle of the night and heard us fighting.

 

When they return from visits to Peter, they are relieved. They do miss him, but find too much time with him a strain. I deeply hope that someday they will be able to freely love and trust him.

 

I am fully prepared to spend the rest of my life alone if Peter refuses to grow up with this program. I have seen in the past 5 months that I am fully capable of coping without him. In fact, most of my life without him is easier since leaving

 

 

I do pray for him every day, all day long

 

 

Peter wrote:

 

She is wounded by my actions. I can see in her post that she did actually struggle before making the decision to leave me. Unfortunately, I was completely unaware that she had this struggle.

 

We have very different perceptions of what our mission agency arrived to do on the day she left. There was no talk whatsoever about repentance. After she left, there was a lot of talk, however nothing about this

 

A very senior missionary told me to go home and get my marriage straightened out, but there was no blaming.

 

 

Peter, let me get this straight;

1. Joanna says that you have abused her emotionally and sexually since you met 20 years ago

2. Joanna says that you have verbally abused the girls as well

3. Joanna says that the girls miss you, but are relieved when they come home

4. Joanna says that your family thinks that she is wrong and at fault in the marriage with you

5. Joanna says that your 8 and 5 year old daughters have both interceded for you in prayer to stop yelling and arguing, and the 8 year old has taken it upon herself to try to comfort her wounded mommy

6. You say - I was unaware of her struggle and apparently the fact that she felt you were abusing her...

7. You say - no one talked to me about repentance

8. You say - a very senior missionary told me to go and work on my marriage with no blame

 

Questions:

1. What are you to blame for, i.e. responsible for?

2. Is Joanna right or is she lying about your abuse of her and your daughters?

3. Does your family know the truth of your behavior towards Joanna that would cause her to feel the need to flee from you?

4. Does this very senior missionary know the extent of your behavior towards Joanna?

5. Is the mission work so important that Joanna's needs and the children's needs are irrelevant?

 

The hardship/sacrafice of mission work is not; "wives tolerate your husband's abuse, after all they are serving the Lord"

 

Peter was a missionary who was married and he said; "Husbands live with your wives in an understanding way as they are the more delicate vessel, so that your prayers will not be hindered."

 

Paul was also a missionary and he said; "Husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave Himself for her."

 

Jesus The Missionary held a very high view of marriage; "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

 

You don't need to answer me, but you do need to answer to the Lord for your behavior towards Him in your abuse of Joanna and your girls.

[Peter]

We had a very brief meeting. I was very apprehensive and she made a lot of excuses about needing to be anywhere but there, but at least we saw each other. It showed me that she is somewhat interested in the marriage, but she has erected some strong boundaries and needs to be in control, which is fine by me. Unfortunately she started to insult my family and tell me all the things that were wrong about them as well, and I had to leave at that point. I did try to listen to her, and asked to hold her hand as we walked. She looks good! I had "heal her heart, heal her heart" in my mind the whole time. I don't think I was very successful, but she did say we might meet again, so that is positive. I need to be patient.

[MaryJane]

Unfortunately she started to insult my family

"Insult"? Perhaps the wording should be, "She started to show me how my family has hurt her and I have NOT defended her to them."

[Peter]

That is part of it, yes. My mother has attacked her in violent ways that in two instances I watched it happen. However, she goes further and tells me how my relationship with my mother is pathological and how terrible a person my father is. She is right about some things but she is so hurt right now that she is using her empowered position to attack and release all kinds of latent resentments, some dating back to before we were married. I guess I can take them, but I wonder how many are exaggerated because of her hurt. I will try to accept them and be glad that at least she is talking to me.

[gms]

Peter have you read Joel and Kathy's 2 books on marriage?

[JoelandKathy]

Almost every bad husband met his mother's emotional needs in one way or another when he was a child and that makes it impossible for him to be a good husband until he understands the dynamic. We taught on that on Friday night in the intensive. As Brian pointed out, keep reading and do watch the Intensive DVD set again in full. It will speak more loudly to you now than when you first came.

 

BTW, if you do get back to India in the future, there is going to be a change in the atmosphere. We, Joel and Kathy, are flooding the airwaves on Miracle net in India.

 

Here is the link and the time to see it here. We can only watch on internet - but in India, miracle net is on TV, satellite, etcetera.

 

Five times a day, seven days a week!

 

 

http://www.miraclenet.tv/

 

http://www.wherever.tv/tv-channels/MIRACLE-NET.jsf

 

 

 

noon 7 days a week India Time 2:30 am Eastern Standard Time

4 pm 7 days a week India Time 6:30 am Eastern Standard Time

9 pm 7 days a week. India TIme 11:30 am Eastern Standard Time

4 am 7 days a week India time 6:30 pm Eastern standard time

9 am 7 days a week. India time 11:30 pm Eastern Time

[MaryJane]

She is right about some things but she is so hurt right now that she is using her empowered position to attack and release all kinds of latent resentments, some dating back to before we were married. I guess I can take them, but I wonder how many are exaggerated because of her hurt.

 

She's not attacking. She is informing you of wounds she has received from you, the person who, I presume, promised to love, honour and cherish her. You did not "leave" your father and mother by protecting her from them.

 

Her "latent resentments" are latent because they are wounds that have been continuously opened up over and over again throughout the marriage. By you, her husband.

 

Now, is the time for you to begin to tenderly dress her emotional wounds. However, it would be unwise for her to let you near her emotionally, until you have become an emotionally safe place.

 

Her resentments are not exaggerated. They are real -- because of how seriously you have wounded her.

 

You have got to call on God for help! Your heart has to be broken before Him, first of all.

[Peter]

Dear God's mighty soldier,

Thanks for the input. I have abused her by using porn and forcing my opinion and being selfish. I am guilty of all these things. I am struggling to take accountability before God for them, since I am just starting now after five months to realize how much I have hurt my wife. Nobody knows that I was abusive, not the mission agency, not my family, not our church, and until recently, not even me.

 

Of course my work is important to me, but of course it is not more important than my marriage. It is just really hard to watch it go away! I wish this thing could have been prevented! I dwell on what happened and who said what and who didn't say what, instead of moving forward.

 

My wife says this website has helped her open up in a protected way, and I am so glad for that on her behalf. I am here, posting daily, to try to get straight how to act and who to be. I can change and face the consequences of what I have done. I want to be the man of God she wants me to be. I want to face the issues in my upbringing and my past if that will help her heal. I want to follow her lead as the wife who understands the relational/emotional/spiritual side of me better than I do. I am so glad that she is so empowered to stand up to me. I love her and want her to be happy!

 

During our meeting I had the L.O.V.E message in my head. I tried to listen, and a few times was able to say "Yes, you're right" to her accusations. I hope I have not pushed her too far away again. I am like a backhoe trying to cook with an egg. I just can't treat her gently enough.

[UndyingTrust]

Peter,

 

You're not being completely honest with us. You're posting what you think we want you to say. This isn't going to help you, and it's not going to help restore your marriage or your wife's heart.

 

Why don't you tell us how the meeting REALLY went this morning?

 

-- Joseph

[Peter]

Well Undying Trust, since you obviously were there with us the whole time, listening to what we both said, why don't you tell me how it went?

[gms]

Peter I appreciate you responding and saying what you have, but what you haven't yet acknowledged is whether or not Joanna's version of the story is correct. This isn't just about porn although that in and of itself is enough to destroy lives and marriages and but for the grace of God I and my marriage would have been destroyed by my porn use and self gratification.

 

I have yet to hear/read you say that you are responsible for abusing Joanna and because of your abuse she felt there was no other option but to flee the country. People don't flee countries half way around the world with small children for no reason. Are you really dealing with the severity of what Joanna has suffered at your hands? It doesn't appear that way to me or anyone else here.

 

It is time to get honest and stop the self deception, you are the only one who is believing it...

[Peter]

I am willing to be brutally honest. I do not think her version of the story is completely correct. I have learned that I abused her, that I treated her badly, that I hurt her with porn, that I did not cherish her in the way should be cherished. I was a bad husband in every way. BUT I simply feel she could have given me a clearer signal that she was in distress so I could have realized the extent of the problem!

 

Today she told me she had given me warnings, but they were subtle insinuations, not the kind of clear message I needed. I needed a red flag!

 

She feels I was ignoring her messages, I feel she was not sending them. There are surely many marriages on this forum in which the wife keeps her needs too quiet and secret.

 

I can face all the wrath you all have against me. I was a bad husband. She didn't give me a clear enough signal that she was in distress.

[gms]

Peter - as a brother in the Lord I have no wrath against you, not even a little. My heart for you is to see you grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus the Christ, that He would be glorified in and through your life and that you would be blessed beyond all you could ask or think.

 

As Joanna's husband it is your responsibility to draw your wife out and listen to her heart so that you know what she is feeling. If you are abusive she retreats within herself for protection and that is your fault not hers. The arguing is a clue though and a pretty significant red flag. You being clueless is not her fault, you being insensitive is not her fault, you not living with her in an understanding way is not her fault. Based on some of her comments I have no doubt that she at times expressed dissatisfaction with the marriage and wanted to work on things. You yourself stated that you left India two times for her and one was to specifically work on the marriage. How can you now say that she didn't give you any signals? Or that the signals weren't strong enough?

[Peter]

I left India twice after she left me.

 

The counseling we went to in July was sex addiction rehab, not marriage counseling. We had not been involved in marriage counseling since we went to a marriage weekend many years ago. We went through psychological testing before the mission field which did not identify a marriage problem.

 

Every marriage has arguing. How is that a sign that a bomb is about to drop?

 

She asked me to read books and I found that tough, like all husbands here would. She expressed dissatisfaction, like all wives will at times do. She asked me to connect with her spiritually and emotionally, which I tried to do. She did not stand up and say she was in distress and the marriage was about to explode.

 

I don't think asking me whether she was wrong or right is productive right now Brian. She will say that she warned me, I will say that she kept it to herself. I will accept that she really was in distress without showing me or anyone else, but really I feel she could have let me know in a clearer way.

 

I don't think any of this posting is productive. I am back in the doghouse now and will be penalized with more isolation.

[UndyingTrust]

Peter,

 

None of us have wrath against you! We are trying to help... nothing more. I have walked through this, and did "all of the above" to my wife too. Unfortunately, I didn't get the message... until it was too late. I lost my wife, and she's not coming back. She doesn't want to have anything to do with J&K's ministry, and has no interest in restoring our marriage. I broke my wife to the point of no return.

 

She also didn't communicate the whole extent of her pain while we were married, but that's really, really hard to do. It's not like there's a "feelings chart" like they have at the hospital she could have shown me.

 

I've said every word you're saying now, and I've heard everything your wife is saying to you in my own situation. I could stand here and say that my wife didn't clearly communicate in a way I needed her to, but that would be shifting blame.

 

We're both Christian guys... you're a missionary, a leader in ministry. I'm also a leader in my church, and I know the Word like you do. I didn't need my wife to tell me her pain to know that what I was doing was wrong. I knew it, just like you do. I knew that looking at porn, flirting with other women, and acting out of my pride and ego were not a right way to keep a healthy marriage. I didn't need a "red flag" or anything else to tell me that. I just had to get honest with myself. I was self-deceived, so it was hard to see the reality of what I was doing, but deep-down, I knew it was wrong.

 

That's all we're trying to do here Peter -- we're trying to help clear the fog of your self-deception. Brian and I both dealt with this, and we're not trying to "beat you up".

 

You're trying to justify yourself, even though "admitting" to being a bad husband, by saying that she didn't give you a sign. This is where the "who goes first" question comes in. The only thing to say is: "Yes, I was a bad husband, and I didn't treat my wife the way I promised to at the alter, before God. I don't ever want to be that kind of man again. Please help me see the places in my heart and mind that need to change, and I'll change them."

 

It's all about your heart attitude. And yes, it comes through on your posts. I've never met most of the men on this board, but their attitudes and posture toward God, themselves, and their wives come through in their writing.

 

I've walked this, I've been you, and I know what you're going through. Trust me, I would have given ANYTHING in the world to be where you are RIGHT NOW. You don't want to be on this side... you want to be where Brian is. He is with his wife. You are with your wife.

 

You are very fortunate to be receiving all this help... it is priceless.

 

It doesn't matter if her version of the story isn't 100% correct. Yours isn't either. We're more concerned about where your heart is...

 

-- Joseph

[gms]

Ok, then let's shift gears. What is she asking you to do for her? The heartbeat of Joel & Kathy's program is to listen to your wife and meet her expressed needs. What is she asking you to do now? Focussing on her needs will help the situation...