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Dear Friends,

 

I wanted to say that I hope that I am not being too much of a bully here, but I would like to get on the call tonight, but because of the time of the call, I would have to leave everything to POOH to be able to do that. Is that dumping too much on him?? I don't want dinner, so I will gladly skip it, but is it okay to leave him with all the work of the children?? I am so down that I hope this will help me to feel better. Please reply.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

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My Dearest Love,

It is alright to take time for yourself. I can handle the children. I think I even did it with out yelling at anyone. You were tired and in need of down time. I am happy to relieve your burden. I Love You!!!!

 

The surrender was my Yes Dear. I always thought that surrender and not fighting was a good thing. That is why I did not understand that it was hurting you.

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Pooh - it is good to see you and Tigger doing well...

 

One thing that is important to remember is that "Yes, Dear" has a lot of sarcastic undertones, and is a very RESPONSIVE attitude. You are not INITIATING peace, you are RESPONDING in a sarcastic or beat-down manner. I am not trying to be mean, but I just want you to see the message that you are sending. I think that you do GET IT already, but it's just not a good way to communicate with our wives.

 

In order to INITIATE peace, you need to communicate with your wife - bring up things that need to be brought up, offer to take care of the kids and let her rest or get on a call (be PROACTIVE here! - nice job TONIGHT!), and then tell her that you will join her as soon as you can. INITIATE ways to be together - you have a busy house and a busy life, but if you make time together a PRIORITY, it will come back to you!

 

One of my problems was (and still is) avoiding conflict. With our wives, not bringing something up is WORSE than fighting about something! Strange, but that's what their manual says! If something needs to be dealt with, and I know it, and she knows it, and she knows that I know it, but I do nothing, then that's a BAD deal. Be the man and bring it up - you will be protecting your wife's heart and blessing her, and that will heal her as quickly as anything else that I think we can do as husbands.

 

HerDensity

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Hi dear,

 

I have read A Crash... By Judy (found in the favorites post at the bottom)

 

To you I say rest. I can handle any extra work. I Love you and want you to be health and happy. That will require rest. Take what ever time you need I am here for you. I can handle any need actions in the house.

 

To Her Density,

 

I did not understand the crushing pain that this term was causing until a couple of days ago. I have stopped. I will endeavor to not use that term.

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Pooh - good stuff, glad that you heard your wife's heart here!

 

To you I say rest. I can handle any extra work. I Love you and want you to be health and happy. That will require rest. Take what ever time you need I am here for you. I can handle any need actions in the house.

 

I would like to see you add one minor thing here:

"Tigger, I will do these things JOYFULLY and POSITIVELY."

 

Doing them and doing them JOYFULLY are different to our wives. Learn from my mistakes, and START with the JOYFUL attitude! :wink:

 

HerDensity

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Pooh, I'm happy to see you posting. I spoke to your lovely wife this afternoon - she is absolutely wonderful, and she deserves to be treated like a princess. I know that posting is something she's wanted you to do for awhile, and it really speaks to her heart that you've started doing it.

 

You've already gotten a lot of good advice - just follow it.

 

I told her to tell you that I WILL come out there and kick your butt if necessary! :wink:

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POOH,

 

You are out getting pizza, so I don't know if I will get this done before you get back, but I wanted to say, thank you for taking the babies so I had some time to myself. I really needed this time.

 

I have some responses to your posts. Did I just say post(s), ooooooohhhhhhh yes I did. Way to go!! 2 Whoo Hoo.

 

HD took part of my thunder, but I still want to address a few things.

To Her Density,

 

I did not understand the crushing pain that this term was causing until a couple of days ago. I have stopped. I will endeavor to not use that term.

You said that you will endeavor to not use 'that' term. Well that is a start, but you have said you would do that in the past. Remember it is not just 'that' term, but the tone of that term. You explained to me last night what you meant by surrender, but that is not how it has ever felt. It has not felt like when you say "Yes dear" that you are surrendering to me.

 

You know that our oldest started saying it to me too, a year or too ago, so you know it was not feeding me words of life then. It was not a "surrender" word coming from his mouth, so you know that it is not true that the way you were saying it was in a tone of 'surrender'.

 

They say imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery. Keeping that in mind, your son was most sincerely imitating you. He was being a little POOH, but it really was not 'flattering', as it was him copying the worst of you.

 

HD has never heard you say it and does not even know the tone of voice you have spoken it to me yet he can say:

One thing that is important to remember is that "Yes, Dear" has a lot of sarcastic undertones, and is a very RESPONSIVE attitude. You are not INITIATING peace, you are RESPONDING in a sarcastic or beat-down manner. I am not trying to be mean, but I just want you to see the message that you are sending. I think that you do GET IT already, but it's just not a good way to communicate with our wives.

He gets it. I hope you will too from what I have written and what HD has shared with you.

 

Our little Roo has just brought me a book so I will close and get back to this later.

 

Blessings,

 

Tigger

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To My wife,

You are correct my Love I have not always had a good heart, I have always ment it is a way of surrender though. This is all in the past. I hope to always speak with love and joy in my heart. I Love you.

HerDensity,

Thanks for the reminder

Doing them and doing them JOYFULLY are different to our wives. Learn from my mistakes, and START with the JOYFUL attitude! Wink

"it is not what goes in to a mans mouth that makes him unclean but what comes out. For what comes out of the moth comes from the heart."

It dose not matter what the words are it is the attitude that counts.

 

To My Darling Wife,

I soooo owe you an apology for the way I have spoken in the past. I have hurt you and for this I am deeply Sorry. I am to be you source of life. The world feeds enough death. Please forgive me. I am deeply sorry.

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I was talking to my beautiful wife(Tigger). We were having a nice discussion(working on the marriage). When the topic of my yelling came up. She said it was great that I was not yelling as much. She then said that this was not going to heal her, it would only stop heaping hurt!! I then asked what would help and she did not know. Dose anyone have any ideas. Any help would be great. I am desperately seeking help to move my wife to a OHM. Thanks in advance Pooh

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Pooh, if you will read back through your wife's posts you'll see what she needs from you. Here's one:

 

When he wants to do something he is good at putting an effort forward for that time of doing what he wants/needs to do, but not when it is something I want/need. Plus, unless I am pushing him forward he does not finish what he has started.

 

I bolded the part you especially need to pay attention to.

 

Yes, not yelling is a good thing - it helps by not piling on any further hurt, but it doesn't do a lot to heal the hurt that's already there. The good thing for you is that Tigger has been very upfront and honest in her posts here. Read them. Take notes if you need to. Then - and this is the important part - DO IT!

 

I'm sure you love Tigger and you want an OHM, but the best of intentions without actions to back them up are useless.

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Pooh, I am very happy to see/hear that you're so desirous to heal Tigger's heart :D .

 

Although, she may not be able to "think" of how you can do that, she HAS told you many, many times what you can do. I suggest you re-read her section, as Looney suggested and I know that if you pray and ask your Heavenly Father to bring to your remembrance, the things your lovely bride has asked of you, that He will be faithful in that. God loves your wife! He wants his daughter's heart healed and He is calling you to heal it. So, He will tell you if you ask and listen with a servant's heart.

 

Can't wait to read what blessings you're showering on Tigger to heal her heart :D .

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Dear Looney and Aunt Pitty,

 

I wanted to post yesterday to Looney, but put it off because POOH asked me if we could read from J&K's books for a while. We went to our home church group for the first time since the whole cancer thing started back in March, so we were gone for part of the day and did not get home to evening. I thought that since POOH was initiating reading that was a good thing and that I should take that as a priority.

 

Now having said all that... I can write one post that will address the same thing with both of you.

 

I did NOT not give him an answer. I gave him several things, we talked for a long time. What I finally said to him was... go ask the helpers. PUT out the effort to seek HELP!! You are now on this forum, seek help from others who have walked this road.

 

POOH aka Mr. Brevity, did his... I can post in as few a number of words as possible, wrote what he did, but did not give accurate information. URGH!! :evil: :evil:

 

I feel like I have to go behind him all the time to explain. I think that maybe I am being too much of his Mommy and I also feel like I needed to defend myself. I felt that in the light of how he presented this info., he made me look bad; as usual. He may not make me look bad on here but in real life he does frequently, usually with his parents and our children, but that is another issue all together.

 

I suggested that he (POOH) PM GMS and HD and ask them to read his thread. he was suppose to post his specific questions, as in he needed help as to ideas for bringing healing to his wife's heart. I thought that the men might have general suggestions that had worked with their wives. GMS had been on here before but has not chimed back in to POOH's thread much since he has started posting. I know HD has, he has just had 'life' happening. I thought the PM was appropriate to ask them to read and respond.

 

Now I have you lovely ladies helping, but no men. I REALLY appreciate all your help, please do not think otherwise. I love your replies, they are so helpful.

 

Looney I appreciate you cutting and pasting for POOH. He would really be in a pickle to get caught up on all of my thread. He has read about half but it is VERY time consuming for him; I mean it would probably take him more then a hour to read one page and he is like back at 10 or 12. He is getting on here and that is a good thing, I do not expect miracles in speed reading for him, though I do think it may help him to get reading some more on my thread.

 

He finally got his laptop connected to the internet on Sunday. He did not have his going because of the other issues he has had, so he did not, so that I would have peace of mind. He would ask to use my computer so that he could post. As ya'll know, I am on here alot, so that did not leave him much time. We now have both laptops up and functional, so we can both be on together, but separately, if that makes any kind of sense.

 

So giving him something specific was really helpful. He needs to learn to more accurately ask for what he really needs, without putting me down too!! I gave him feedback, but then said if he said back to me word for word what I had said that it would not feel too genuine. He had to work on this some himself. I tried to give him lots of examples of the things that have hurt and some things he might do differently that would help in the future. I also gave examples of what I felt a "real" apology would be like- again.

 

He found it hard to keep from defending himself so I read him something that I had copied and had planned to put on my thread and discuss. It was perfect timing, so I will share it right here.

It's also important to understand that any form of EXPLANATION is the same as DEFENSE to our wives. If we attempt to explain our actions in any WAY, SHAPE, or FORM, we are defending. Our wives understand emotional things much, much better than we do, and we have to trust their views, not attack them. Even though we don't think of a defense as an attack, they do. Nothing good will come from defending or explaining - the sooner you can change your mindset about this, the better.

I am not certain, but I think it was GMS that had written that to someone else. I have cut and pasted several things lately from other people's threads, but forgot to write who wrote them. It was just something that was really where we were at on Saturday, or was that Sunday??!!

 

We were having a nice long chat, which we have not had in such a long time. It was Saturday, because on Sunday I was in the hot tub for most of the day trying to feel better from physical aliments.

 

Well this is again one of my long winded posts. I am trying to get better, I know POOH can read shorter ones better, but I just feel like I have so much to say; especially after feeling like I have had no voice in such a very long time. I have not had anyone to talk to since my best friend (POOH)decided that his wife (me) already knew everything about him so there was no longer anything to talk about with each other. Ouch!!

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

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Pooh - Tigger is being very clear about what she wants from you. I have recieved no PM from him as of 4:00pm, Monday the 31st.

 

It is hard to not defend/explain, I actually caught myself starting to do this with GPP this past week in regard to a past sin of mine. I started off trying to clarify what I said in realtion to it (at the time I confessed) and after about a minute just stopped myself and said, "you know, it was just sinful, selfish and wrong and I am sorry." This is something I have apologized for several times before, but a conversation stirred up the memory for her and she referred back to what I had said before and said, "that was BS." Instead of trying to clarify even for a second I should have skipped right to, "I am so sorry, that was wrong, sinful and selfish and I am so sorry I hurt you." I did end up there pretty quickly, but it is an area of self protection called minimizing that needs to die in all of us. For me it is based in fear of punishment. Maybe if I have a good enough reason, eventhough it was wrong, the punishment won't be as bad. Self protection, self interest, selfish...self, self, self. Don't get hung up on the facts in the conversation, get immersed in Tigger's emotions and seek to understand her feelings about what happened. This takes the focus off of yourself and puts it on her, where it needs to be. This will help you bring healing to her heart, if you allow her to share without being cross-examined as to the facts and just take responsibility for whatever it was that caused the damage. Then you embrace her and tell her you love her.

 

What are you struggling with Pooh?

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Pooh - she's right, stopping a harmful thing will NOT remove the effects. Healing requires a DIFFERENT action, something that will REPLACE the harmful effects of the bad behavior.

 

So, you have stopped yelling - that's good, but that's not healing.

To heal from having yelled at your wife and children, scared them, frightened them, demeaned them, made them feel inferior, powerless, weak, and small, what do you think that you should do?

 

YOU can tell US the answer to this question.

 

HerDensity

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Dear GMS,

 

I want to start by saying I feel weird writing to you, without your wife being in the process. I am writing on my husband's thread, so there is nothing untoward. I have not PMed you, but rather suggested that POOH do that, just to ask you to read.

 

I want to say thank you for posting back to POOH. What you wrote touched a chord in me and I feel that I want to put something down here in writing. Your quote:

Self protection, self interest, selfish...self, self, self. Don't get hung up on the facts in the conversation, get immersed in Tigger's emotions and seek to understand her feelings about what happened. This takes the focus off of yourself and puts it on her, where it needs to be. This will help you bring healing to her heart, if you allow her to share without being cross-examined as to the facts and just take responsibility for whatever it was that caused the damage. Then you embrace her and tell her you love her.

 

What are you struggling with Pooh?

Please let me start by owning that I put that one sentence in bold. It was kind of the biggest thing that I wanted to comment on, at this time.

 

The "self" stuff was true too, so I included it so that POOH would know that it had touched me. But the stuff in bold, well... that was just a tear jerker for me. To think that he would embrace me and tell me that he loves me even after I have just let so much out would be amazing. I always feel that he just takes it in and now fights just to keep his mouth shut. There is never any kind holding me after I have let him know something.

 

I can not even call it venting, because that stopped happening a long time ago. I am just trying to open up just a little bit with him. This really is hard.

 

Once again, thank you GMS for your input to my husband. I pray that your little bump did not hurt GPP too much and that you brought her healing after your minor slip. All of us make mistakes, myself included, it is how we handle them is what really matters.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

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HD,

 

You must have posted while I was typing to GMS, on POOH's string. I know that you hit the nail right on the head, as to how his yelling made us feel. It is really hard now too because the children have all learned that yelling is the way to handle things.

 

You wrote:

YOU can tell US the answer to this question.

But I am not sure that he "can" tell us. You have a confidence that I do not have. I am not really sure if I once had it but lost it, or if I just did not ever have it. That sounds stupid, doesn't it, but I am floundering here.

 

I must have had it once. We used to talk all the time. Does that mean I think he knows how to make right that which he has done wrong... I don't know. We talked, but I think we mostly saw eye to eye on things; therefore... he has never had to make right that which he has made wrong. Does that make any kind of sense, except to me??!!

 

He does not apologize, or at least not well. He seems to be missing the skills necessary to undo what he has done. Is that possible?? His family never takes responsibility/ownership of anything that they ever do wrong. He has never had an example. I guess that is what I had hoped you and GMS might become for him. He needs a mentor. It is like the "baby steps" thing, he needs to be taught to crawl before he takes any baby steps.

 

Am I putting him down by saying this. I am not meaning to, but I wonder if I am being too much of his mommy in this. I do not want to be his mommy. I have always wanted to be a mommy, but not this way. Please give feed back. I need to go check on the babies, so I must go. I will check back later. It is just now 2:30 our time, so maybe he will get on here today, while ya'll are still awake.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

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Tigger,

 

If he can't answer the question, or isn't sure about his answer, then he needs to ask me to clarify. If he is as serious about healing you and his children as he says he is, then he will engage me in a conversation about this topic and we can uncover some of the things holding him back. That's what I think that he is asking for, and that's what I would like to help him with.

 

POOH needs to step up and answer what's being asked. We know that he is confused, he has said it outright, and we are here to help. Both GMS and I want to help him grow and learn how to heal you, but we need him to want it, too. I can't reach through the computer and grab hold of him - he'd be second or third on my list if I could.

 

So, POOH, I ask you again:

 

So, you have stopped yelling - that's good, but that's not healing.

To heal from having yelled at your wife and children, scared them, frightened them, demeaned them, made them feel inferior, powerless, weak, and small, what do you think that you should do?

 

YOU can tell US the answer to this question.

 

HerDensity

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HerDensity

So, POOH, I ask you again:

 

Quote:

 

So, you have stopped yelling - that's good, but that's not healing.

To heal from having yelled at your wife and children, scared them, frightened them, demeaned them, made them feel inferior, powerless, weak, and small, what do you think that you should do?

 

YOU can tell US the answer to this question.

 

My answer would be to do the opposite of these: Support and Love them, Uplift them, and Empower them.

 

This will take a little reworking. I had never thought that I was putting the down. So I will have to be more careful and think about my actions better. Thanks

 

Looney_Tunes

Aunt Pitty

God's Mighty Soldier

 

Thanks for the input work has settled down so I hope to be able to devote more time to reading her string I am currently at page 16. I will pick up the amount of time I spend talking and just being(holding) with her. these are a few of the things that I think I hear coming from her heart.

 

Tigger

 

I am so deeply sorry that I had put you down. I should have been able to ask for help in a different way. Please forgive me. I long to hear you and to bring healing. I pray that God helps me to Love my wife more tenderly. to hear her heart and be strong enough to respond to her with out running away. I also pray that God helps me to die to my selfish ways so that I can become more Christ like and be the man that my wife needs me to be. Lord hear my prayers. I love you deeply Tigger.

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Pooh - GOOD!

 

You're right - find ways to "un-do" what yelling did. And, you're right, it will take some re-working; that's a great way to look at it, kinda like when a company goes into an existing factory and changes all of the inner workings so that the same building produces a different product. On the outside, it's the same building/person, but the output is completely different than it was before.

 

Do you know of other ways in which you have hurt your wife? What other things have you picked up in the first 16 pages of your wife's thread?

 

Always try to keep in mind that when we guys figure out how we have been hurting our wives, that's only part of the battle - we then need to figure out how to HEAL those hurts, and what we do as men to "un-do" our wife's hurts. Same for our children.

 

Nice work, bud, keep it up! Your wife is precious and you hold ALL of the keys for her happiness and wholeness!

 

HerDensity

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POOH,

 

I am disappointed. I have looked here all day and nothing here. I know today was the monthly hoopla of meetings, but ... I took you at your word.

Thanks for the input work has settled down so I hope to be able to devote more time to reading her string I am currently at page 16. I will pick up the amount of time I spend talking and just being(holding) with her. these are a few of the things that I think I hear coming from her heart

 

I even sent you an e mail, but nothing. No reply or anything. That makes me sad. You knew I was having a bad day and still NOTHING. I needed more from you. They are your kids too that are driving me nuts. Ugh!! You are just like adding to the burden, you are one more child to deal with.

 

I am really grumpy right now, so I should close. You are near home, but the exit thing has delayed you. Maybe you will be able to explain yourself better when you write.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

 

PS: HD, sorry I just had to get that out. I did not mean to take anything away from your post. Thanks for staying on him, even if he is not necessarily ??? I am not even sure how to put it. He posted, but I am still wanting more. I know... baby steps, baby steps. Maybe he can pass that trophy, for the man who would not post, back to Noah/1SM/Dave/Jack/The one who would not post/???? That would sure be nice. Tig

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Tigger said:

I am disappointed.
I took you at your word.
That makes me sad.

You knew I was having a bad day and still NOTHING

you are one more child to deal with.
HUHHHH! :shock: :shock: This does not sound like a bride who is healing from her husband's wounds. Pooh, :shock: .

 

I'm sorry for your pain, Tigger. Marriage is not supposed to be painful.

 

Must I carry kleenex to my computer when I know I'll be reading your beautiful bride's posts to you? Her posts should be bringing smiles to faces, not tears. You're breaking hearts here, Pooh!

 

Tomorrow, after a good night and morning, I want to read of Tigger's joy from your loving on her so much tonight!

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My beautiful wife,

 

I am so sorry that I did not fulfill your desires and needs. I am sad that I have let you down. I love you. thanks for the email, that is a place I want to be. I hope to be able to meet your needs my Love. I have always desired to not be able to tell where you move from You to me. To be One in all Things. I pray that your load is lightened and you are able to be happy and Joyful.

 

Aunt Pitty

You are correct I let my wife down and did not meet her needs. I will have to be more proactive and aware of her emotional needs.

 

 

HerDensity

 

Yes I am working on a list. I know that there have been many things that I have done that have caused her pain. I am working to try and change these things to things that edify her.

 

All

Please pray for my wife. I have to be on a trip for the 2nd and 3rd. I pray that she has peace and comfort with the strength to glide through her day. Lord be over the children and give them wisdom and guidance.

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My beautiful wife,

 

I am so sorry that I did not fulfill your desires and needs. I am sad that I have let you down. I love you. thanks for the email, that is a place I want to be. I hope to be able to meet your needs my Love. I have always desired to not be able to tell where you move from You to me. To be One in all Things. I pray that your load is lightened and you are able to be happy and Joyful.

 

Aunt Pitty

You are correct I let my wife down and did not meet her needs. I will have to be more proactive and aware of her emotional needs.

 

 

HerDensity

 

Yes I am working on a list. I know that there have been many things that I have done that have caused her pain. I am working to try and change these things to things that edify her.

 

All

Please pray for my wife. I have to be on a trip for the 2nd and 3rd. I pray that she has peace and comfort with the strength to glide through her day. Lord be over the children and give them wisdom and guidance.

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Then you embrace her and tell her you love her.
Pooh, we are all taking deep breathes as we hit the computer key to log into your string, hoping to see that you've chosen to heal your wife's heart consistently. Disappointed again. The above remark is what she is needing/wanting from you. Is a hug and an "I love you," too much for you to give her? Why, when it is almost two years after your Intensive, is she needing to beg for "J&K 101?"

 

You said:

Please pray for my wife. I have to be on a trip for the 2nd and 3rd. I pray that she has peace and comfort with the strength to glide through her day. Lord be over the children and give them wisdom and guidance.
The thing is Pooh, you're asking for prayers for your lovely TIgger, when you are the one causing her to feel uncomforted, unpeaceful, and without strength? Did you realize this?

 

God is calling YOU to bring these things: COMFORT, PEACE and STRENGTH, into Tigger's life.

 

Praying for your lovely Tigger and children today.

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