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POOH,

 

If you ever come back here to read... this is something I found on another guys thread. It was his waking up to this fact, maybe this is too much for you, but it really talked to me, so I am passing it along to you.

We are where we are because of me. Not only is dying difficult but staying dead isn't any fun either. At least the daily venom has stopped.

 

Well Fru Fru is waking so I need to go get him up.

 

Tigger

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How can we get past this. Is this mountain worth hiking?? He says he is "on board" but I am not sure if we are on the same ship ; I am beginning to think that he is on the free floating ship of life and I am out here on the dinghy. I am not sure I can even call it a life boat, that has meaning. Mine is a Wal*Mart special for $19.99. Could anyone out there send me a life vest??
As I read this, this came to my mind:

 

The Titanic hit the iceburg, has started to sink, you and Pooh are on it, stewards are calling, "all women and children" to the lifeboats and as you're running, Pooh catches you, knocks you over and jumps on the lifeboat as it is being lowered. You're on the Titanic looking overboard in shock, as tears run down your cheeks. Pooh waves to you and yells, "sorry, I wouldn't die for you...." :shock:

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Ouch!! That makes me sad. I always love your comments Aunt Pitty. Maybe this will hit POOH like and iceburg.

 

I could not imagine him doing that in real life, but... it is so accurate of an analogy of our marriage. Why is he willing to take care of the physical but not the emotional, spiritual, healing my heart??

 

Any thing you care to share, I would be happy to read. Please feel free to post on my thread, I suspect I should not be posting here anymore; it hurts to much to not see him posting.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

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Thank you friends who have been out there,

 

I am still waiting for POOH. It has been since Sept. 10th and still nothing, nearly a month. He is suppose to post everyday, am I missing something??

 

The following are some things that I found that I thought ministered to our situation. I will post them, without comment, as they seem to be self explanatory. So here they go:

I know that you "guys" want to "figure things out" on your own. But reality IS, you need to stop FIGURING, and start DOING. She is going to resist for awhile - until she sees for sure that you are SERIOUS. YOU cannot give up- unless you are telling her you are done with your marriage for good. Are you?

 

You are so scared of trying and failing that you won't try - well, then you will stay right where you are. Failure brings growth - like you've been told, God is present in our weakness.

 

The problem becomes when we guys try to fix or relate to problems only from a man's perspective - most of the time, we send COMPLETELY the wrong message to our wives. An example: if I come home from work and my wife says that she is completely overwhelmed by homeschooling and can't tell if the kids are on the right track, etc., and I say "Well, have you been marking off what they've done on the schedule every day?" - I have basically said that she isn't smart enough to follow a schedule, and I have The Answer to her problems.

 

In reality, what she wants to hear is that I am concerned about her heart, and the fact that life has her overwhelmed. She doesn't want a practical response, she wants a validating response - she wants to know that I understand that she is emotionally overwhelmed and wants to share that with me, rather than have me "fix" the problem.

 

This isn't easy - I won't blow smoke up your skirt; but, it's a way to show them and others that we are trying to change and grow. Your flesh will fight you - as you try to listen to her heart and her emotions, you will want to defend and deflect, rather than listen and validate. Just know that if you start to feel angry about things that she is sharing, you are beginning to feel the emotional side of things, and you have to not respond in anger, but initiate something positive despite the anger.

 

Most of these were written to your "twin", but not all of them; I believe all but the first one were written by HD. I hope you can glean something out of these.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger AKA: One sad and lonely wife.

 

What could be worse then a Tigger who has lost her "bounce"??

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This is a quote that I missed when I was copying them to here last night.

 

How did that happen ? He gave up trying to do this in his own strength, and submitted himself to Christ. He broke down and cried out to our Lord to help him, to show him the way. He was then, filled with the Holy Spirit, and through Christ all things are possible.

 

This was in a section about winning the wife's heart by becoming Christ like.

 

That is all that I needed post here.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

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The problem becomes when we guys try to fix or relate to problems only from a man's perspective - most of the time, we send COMPLETELY the wrong message to our wives. An example: if I come home from work and my wife says that she is completely overwhelmed by homeschooling and can't tell if the kids are on the right track, etc., and I say "Well, have you been marking off what they've done on the schedule every day?" - I have basically said that she isn't smart enough to follow a schedule, and I have The Answer to her problems.

 

In reality, what she wants to hear is that I am concerned about her heart, and the fact that life has her overwhelmed. She doesn't want a practical response, she wants a validating response - she wants to know that I understand that she is emotionally overwhelmed and wants to share that with me, rather than have me "fix" the problem.

 

How do I make the change in my mind from a do this, then that to a place of relating to feelings. I am lost and unsure how to make this change.

 

Thanks for the quotes Dear, they have given me something to ponder.

 

I love you tigger!!!

Your Pooh.

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How do I make the change in my mind from a do this, then that to a place of relating to feelings. I am lost and unsure how to make this change.
I believe I know what you mean, to a point.

 

I was the eldest of 5. I came home from my travels, for a year or two, when my little sister was 16. Somehow, I knew I would need to change my approach to the siblings -- from dictator/boss/lecturer, to friendly comrade.

 

The first few times my sister said something that "definitely" needed correcting, I forced myself to keep my mouth shut. That was hard.

 

In other words, I listened only.

 

Before I knew it, she was confiding in me AND I found myself confiding in her! A whole new relationship! Voila!

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POOH said:

How do I make the change in my mind from a do this, then that to a place of relating to feelings. I am lost and unsure how to make this change.

 

Mary Jane wrote:

I believe I know what you mean, to a point.

 

Well Mary Jane I am glad you sort of get it because I totally do not get what he is saying. I read what was written, that I had quote from another thread and it seems clear as can be as to what the writer was saying. Then I read POOH's VERY brief reply and I get so lost as to what he is saying. I mean I have no idea what his comment even related to or what it was about; it seems totally not like it has any meaning to the quote.

 

I feel like I am drowning.

 

POOH,

 

Please give me more then just the "B" in the word blankets, it has 7 other letters. I need the whole word, and preferably in th context of a sentence, please. Maybe asking for a paragraph is too much, but that is certainly something to aim towards. I feel like a fish out of water.

 

Last night you told Brian that you do not know what to write. Well I guess my point now is I do not know what to write either, because I totally do not get what you meant. Maybe you could take just a bit more time to explain this to me. That will give you something more to write about on your thread.

 

FYI: I proper letter has 3 paragraphs (at least).

 

You may not be able to manage a letter but a bit more of a note would sure be nice. Thank you.

 

Mary Jane,

 

With all you are going through, I appreciate you taking the time to drop in on us. Thank you for sharing, I need more of your wisdom and insight. Thank you for helping me/us!!

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

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Pooh,

 

For me, personally, I know that my heart started to change when I stopped defending my actions (or lack thereof) and started actually listening to my wife without thinking about what I was going to say in response to what she was saying.

 

Remember LOVE:

L - listen

O - offer apology

V - validate her feelings

E - embrace, if possible

 

You've been gone for a while - it's good to see you back. What changes have you pursued since your last post? How have you reached out towards your wife? What positive things have initiated in your house and your relationship?

 

HerDensity

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I am presently listening on the call with Steve and Melissa as they share with Lorna and Chris.

 

Lorna said something that really struck me. She said that she backs off and then steps up on "Forcing her H on the call and the forum". Her point is not about backing off and stepping forward, it is about the "forcing" him to do these things. Why do we wives have to "force" our husbands to do any or all of the things needed to make a good marriage. What is the big deal about being on the calls?? You can just sit and listen. I realize that being on the forum takes more work.

 

Melissa just said: "You will have to do this for the rest of your life".

 

That is so great. Just like breathing, you will need to do "this" for the rest of your life. You can give up and stop working on your marriage when you decide you want to give up breathing. They go hand in hand. I need you to love me as much as I need to breath. Give me the 'oxygen' of our marriage, please.

 

Tigger

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Pooh said:

It is like I am turning down a dark tunnel that you do not know here it ends only that it leads to this different place. You don't know what to take or how long the trip will take

 

Pooh, when in a dark tunnel, you must use your other senses to carefully navigate your way... so you must sharpen your OTHER senses - your HEARING, your touch, etc. You must LISTEN very carefully to your wife so that you will know what direction to follow. You must keep your mind firmly planted on FOCUSING on her. You must hold her hand, stroke her hair, gently and lovingly touch her, and she will guide your steps.

 

LET go of your SIGHT (your OWN UNDERSTANDING), and follow the guidance and direction you are being given.

 

L

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Pooh, I'm very glad to read your latest post. It's helpful to all of us to read what you're struggling with and what you're thinking. It's also nice to see you actually respond to the people who have posted to you - it's always nice to know we're not talking to a brick wall. :roll:

 

Something that I meant to say on the call last night, and then got sidetracked - you mentioned that you were "doing what you'd been told to do" as far as getting chores done and the kids in bed. That's great, but remember that Tigger's most pressing need will change from day to day, or sometimes minute to minute, depending on how she's feeling physically and emotionally. I'm not saying that to frustrate you, but to remind you to just gently check in with Tigger and see what she needs at that moment. And remember that your focus is not "doing what you're told," but rather finding out what will bless her most at that particular point in time. Yes, getting the laundry done and the kids in bed is a good thing, but if what Tigger needs right now is for you to hold her, then folding laundry isn't going to have the impact you're hoping it will. Another time, the laundry might be at the top of her list.

 

You CAN do this, Pooh. You just have to remember that Tigger is like that little baby we talked about - you HAVE to meet her needs, because no one else can. Are you going to do it with a happy heart, because you love her, or are you going to resent her for it?

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I am sprinkling this around the forum because I think it's such a good idea:

 

On our call last night, I mentioned keeping a notebook where I keep track of important things that I am learning about my wife, and also to keep track of ideas for blessing her - when I hear her say something that I know will bless her, I will write it down so that I don't forget, and so that I will hold myself accountable for doing these things that I hear.

 

I also mentioned that, in the back of the notebook, I keep track of things that I am learning about myself. I make mistakes, lots of them, during my journey to becoming a Christlike man. My goal is not to repeat them, so I try to write them down so that I can "head off" the same problem if it starts to happen again. The whole idea, for me, is to become PROACTIVE about my own behavior and prevent myself from doing the same hurtful thing to my wife when I have already learned that it hurts her. If I write these things down that I have learned hurt her, then I find that I OWN them more effectively, and I am less likely to repeat them. I can also review them to make sure that they don't slip my mind and creep back into my life...

 

To me, becoming a better husband and the Man that God wants me to be is all about OWNERSHIP - I am willing to own the hurts that I have caused in my wife, and I am willing to learn how not to do them over and over again. Becoming Christlike isn't a "checklist", it's a way of like, and I want to be a DIFFERENT man, not the same man with a different set of behaviors.

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pooh,

 

More post sharing :D

 

Brokenarrow,

 

I have not had a computer and so catching up on your story has really blessed me.

 

You are growing and being a man. You are learning the truth that will set you free. Pain is not to be avoided but embraced as a teaching tool...our general perceptions of struggle and trials is to avoid them at all costs...but it is precisely the struggle that that is the catalyst for change.

 

As wives we tend toward the softer side of things in dealing with our husbands. We are nurturing even to our own detriment. As you take personal esponsibility for your actions and attitudes you are releasing your wife. You are showing her that she is no longer your crutch to lean on...but you switch gears by becoming the man and stay in GIVING mode. You are her SOURCE of LIFE AND STRENGTH. This one truth is the most powerful of all marriage truths...if you can get into your spirit that everything comes from you...all blessings or cursings...all life or death...all bitter or sweet..the wide or the narrow...led by the Spirit or led by the flesh..everything in your marriage can be traced back to you as the Source or originator of her responses to you then you will be on the fast track to becoming like Christ.

 

Men need to understand that God is for them...His heart toward His sons is on the level of your potential for greatness. Men miss the God's heart because they focus on their mess ups. God's intentions in showing you where you need to mature is so you CAN become all God purposed you could be. The promise God Himself put within the day He thought of you. God has not changed His mind about you or any of these men. God created you for His pleasure..to love you and transform you.

 

What men misunderstand is that God is correcting them...or making a correction and adjustment in them. Men have taken on certain deceptions in their thinking...this leads to wrong behavior and attitudes of heart. God wants men to walk out His original WILL for them. God knows that true masculinity is a powerful force in the earth...it is the force of LIFE and STRENGTH for others. The very nature of God in GIVING is established in that man's identity. Wow. It is not being a man that is wrong it is that men walk in their role as husband and father wrongly. I can not use a broom to hit a golfball...it is not the broom that is bad it is only an improper use of it. Even the golfball can not react or properly respond to the improper equipment. In the same way a husband has taken on functions and roles in marriage that were never designed by God...they try and do marriage and relationship but are using all the wrong tools. God is only saying that He wants men to realign themselves in their proper roles. Your role as a husband is to be a giver...you give and submit to Christ by laying your life down for a bride...you give up yourself so that your bride has the right material to work with. When she RECEIVES love...this the material she is designed by God to take and multiply back to a husband. It is planting a seed of love and with time and nurture that seed of love flourishes and blossoms into a Garden of Love. There is an analogy relating to this which helps clarify that principle...when you give her food she cooks you a meal..when you give her your sperm she gives you a child..when you give her healing she returns with compassionate understanding..when you give her respect, adoration, time, affection, words of blessing and passion...she will give it right back...the wonderful truth about giving in God's Kingdom is that its return is far more than the investment you first put in. ONE SON... sown into the earth as a first fruits seed of sacrificial love has produced children of God as a harvest.

 

This very pattern in the Word of God is the same pattern from which everything flows. That patten is Initiator/Source/Giver/....Receiver/Responder/Help-meet. You are the Source of all things for tammy. From the well of your own heart springs forth every issue of life. It is the mouth or source where that river begins that matters.

There is nothing wrong with the river or the tributaries that flow from it.... it is dependent upon the Source of the river what kind of Life emanates from it which will effect the life of the whole river. It all starts...begins...or is initiated from the mouth or the beginning place. Your wife and chidlren are like that river...your children the branches or tributaries that flow off of that. If the Source is diseased in any way the whole will be affected.

 

This is the what God called from the beginning the spirtual principle or pattern of seed...time..and harvest. It is the same as the principle of sowing and reaping. When you give God the whole of something God will bless the remaing part. You must plant seeds of love...the more love and attributes of love you sow the greater the response or harvest from your wife's heart. A Christlike man is called to this highest of honors God Himself bestows...a man is most masculine...most like His God when he takes on the heart of generosity and gving. Giving of himself no matter how painful or the cost involved. The whole matter brokenarrow...hinges on the husband. God has spoken it and it cannot be reversed. Just as God will not change any of His spirtual principles. The word of God says...I am God and I change not. You can count on God's promises and provisions to be there when you live according to His principles set forth for a husband and God-honoring marriage. This is not a inconsequential matter...it is weighty and sobering in light of God's own example to you of Christ as a Husband.

 

Part of watching over your wife's heart will also include removing the weeds that will choke out any life in her. As much as you sow LIFE into her you also must remove those behaviors from effecting that life getting to her heart. These are in your case abusive behaviors, attitudes and words that bring death and destruction. By removing the sin/Arrested Development/mother-son issues...you get more Life to her. Strength in God's Word means to build and establish. This is esssence giving your wife a solid foundation in her heart to be able to work from to deal with her own issues. When a husband gives a wife strength this means that he makes sure he is pouring love, acceptance and not putting any demands on her to perform or die for him. She will get strength from her husband and from that place of being loved she will take your strength and grow...every spot, blemish and wrinkle will be healed.

 

For example, I am much more disorganized than my husband. I am out-going and spontaneous. Yet, I know that the flip side of my sanguine personality is a more relaxed approach to life. There are weaknesses that come with my strengths. My husband hates a messy house. He is definitely more phlegmatic and likes order. Now...he could demand that I be orderly and make my life miserable about it. He could get on my case and make remarks and hurtful jabs by reminding me of my weakness all the time. But if I started to try and die to myself and make every effort to be orderly to meet HIS needs then I am trying to gain my husband's love by what I DO. I am trying to perform to get love.....I am now put in the position of being the husband. I am trying to bring him life and making his world alright so he won't get mad at me. Here is the difference..I am doing this for him because I am AFRAID of punishment or him saying mean words to me...or his disapproval and anger over it...I am not feeling strong but beat up emotionally. I am afraid of MY HUSBAND. So I try and change and feel hurt inside. Now, all my life and strength is sapped out of me...even if I wanted to be orderly I can't because my heart is fearful and broken and distracted and wrestling with my pain instead of feeling completely loved. I have nothing but pain to draw from instead of strength and the power of love. This is not God's design. Instead my husband pours strength into me by holding his tongue and going about his business making sure he is dying and not even mentioning my weakness. He just loves me even in my weakness. I begin to see that my husband loves me without conditions or demands...I feel loved just for being me even with those very weaknesses and bemishes. He focuses on giving love not hoping that my weakness will change and make his life better. The very miraculous thing that happens is that because he spent his whole heart on loving me I want so badly to respond to this unselfish and kind love. Because I long to respond to this love...guess what...because I know order makes my husband feel loved I choose out of a RESPONSE of my heart to meet this need FOR HIM. I WANTED to NOT that I HAD to to be loved or avoid abuse. Again, I want to...it is not a fearful reaction to avoid his disapproval but a response to love. Can you see the difference? In this way, just as Ephesians 5 says, my husband's love washes me with the reality of love...because he embodied or made the Word like Rhema...alive to me..I yearn to respond to this kind of love. So men need not fear that there is no response or reward from agape loving the wife...God's purest love...she will turn her heart again when the husband lets her know without any strings attached...that she is perfectly loved...even in her own imperfections.

 

I pray this gives you more understanding of God's breathtaking design of marriage. God is so wonderful that when this is lived out rightly BOTH people get LOVED. Both know each other and love face to face...no hindrance or fears that come between them. The husband has created a safe place for love to flourish and blossom. He is filled up with self-respect and is walking in true manhood. God smiles and pours grace, favor and honor upon him. She is finally safe and secure in love and responds by giving her beloved back all the love he died to give her. She admires him for his sacrifice. She is stunned that she is valuable and cherished. Like Jesus says to us that we are HIS treasure. His Bride is filled up with all the fulness of God...she is strong and gives Christ the yes of her heart. She looks everywhere to bless her Savior's heart...she praises Him and reveres Him. In the same way this is how MARRIAGE will look like our relationship to Christ, our Bridegroom. Amazing.

 

Kimberly

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POOH,

 

Just wanted to put this here so that we will have a 'flow'. I am also e mailing it to you because I am not certain you are reading here. We have been so sick for the last 2 weeks that we have done nothing, now we need to change that. I know we are both still so sick and battling what ever this bug thing is but we are not working on our marriage.

 

We have not read nor watched any of the DVD's, neither have we been on any calls. Next week you will be out of town again, all week, so this will be more of a challenge, but... it still needs to happen. We need to get back on board, NOW. We will be at our class tonight and on Thursday night, but this weekend we need to make this a priority; even with all the problems with our negative "Rabbit" who is camping out.

 

Please read this excerpt from one of the newsletters.

Joel and Kathy,

 

This is Ward the passive husband of June. I would love to thank you'll and all the people on the phone lines for helping me see myself through things that happen in their lives. It has been very helpful to just listen and reply when needed.

 

 

Things in my life and June's are getting better but I can not stop for I have a lot to learn. Just last week I found out one of my former bosses was going though adivorce and I was able t o share with him that I knew where he was coming from and that there is hope but he was going to have to make a change.

 

 

When he told me some of his problems and that he would do all kinds of nice things for his wife I knew he was like me, for instance cooking dinner ,taking the kids places and going on nice vacation.

 

 

This was me also because those things did fill the void in my wife's or any Wife's heart unless she wanted you to do that. My big thing was not doing the 20,20,20 and being passive on not apologizing at the time I needed to. Not protecting her, standing up for her or providing like I should have.

 

 

Those are what she needed and wanted --- and I hurt her really bad for many years because I wanted to do what I wanted to do. When I wanted to do it... and not until --- how selfish and hurtful. God gave me June to love so now I know this and am doing much better.

I gave him book 1 and he told me he would read it.

 

Thank you

Ward

It so much made me think of you in so many ways. Especially about going on vacations; we went away when you had lost all that money in the stock market- but you never even told me. I still am feeling such guilt for having spent more on that trip. You lied to me. You promised you would not let it drop below the basic investment. Instead of listening to me you did it YOUR way. This was also in the above quote. Maybe you do not see the things from Ward as being like you, but I do, soooooo much!!

 

So many things hurt, and you do not think that there are any problems. You do not want to get on board with the L.O.V.E. way of life and that hurts. I mean so little to you that you do not see that these little things would mean so much to me. We have known each other for 27+ years and been married 15 of them, as of tomorrow. You would think that you would have a clue about the 'little' things. I am surviving yes, but it is less then crumbs that you are giving me.

 

You know I am terrible at scripture quoting but I know that there is a scripture to this affect: Even the dog at the Masters table gets scraps (hear crumbs). Why then do I get less then that, I do not even rate as high as a dog :arrow: and you know KNOW know how well that goes over with me. TO think that you love the dog more then you love me hurts; especially seeing as we do not have a dog!!

 

Well I have gone on long enough. I am not sure you will get my point, but maybe even a little of it will sink in to you. Otherwise, I am hoping that others may comment and help you along in hearing my heart.

 

Still yours,

 

Tigger

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Pooh,

 

Please hear Tigger's heart! Her message is clear!

You do not want to get on board with the L.O.V.E. way of life and that hurts. I mean so little to you that you do not see that these little things would mean so much to me.

 

It's those "little" things that count.

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My dearest tigger,

 

I am sorry that I was not able to keep it together long enough to post last night. I was reading and rereading my post to get refreshed. Then I lost it and fell asleep. I hope your day went well. I miss you!!!

 

Yes we need to pick up the pieces since being sick and get back on track. Sorry that it did not happen this weekend like you wanted. I am working on getting home early. Iwill post this then get some dinner and give you a call. I love you.

 

Your Loving Pooh.

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