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Hi, I'm new here. I don't know if I'm in the right place.


My husband and I are struggling in our marriage ( to say the least) and have been since the day we got married. We are in Christian counseling together now (well, for ONE session), and the counselor sent us to this website.


We both live in different states. Communication is very poor.


I thought by reading this website, I would find hope, but instead I just feel hopeless! My husband will NEVER seek to "bless" me! My husband only calls me out of a sense of obligation, and even then, he barely talks.


I ordered the books, but honestly don't know what else to do except sit and pray. I know my husband will not read the books. He did go to this website at the suggestion of the counselor and supposedly spent 2 hours on it, but I don't know what he read or did. We have not talked about it.


I just feel so hopeless!


Anyway, I guess I just wanted to reach out to someone for some help and support. Being in this position is just too painful sometimes, and running to my husband begging for attention, or for him to listen to me just begins another fight where he will hang up and refuse to speak to me for days.


I was hoping that he would go to the website and see the information about the intensives, and want to do one...he's always game for a "vacation" but I gues the two hours on the website didn't include reading about that. :cry:


Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions on anything I can do to help my marriage please let me know...I'm at a loss right now and feel helpless just sitting here waiting for him to turn into a husband instead of a single man (which is what he is right now based on his actions).

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Hi, First, glad you found this place. I'm still a hurting wife...but let me tell you...I'm hurting much less today than 4 months ago when I found this place. :!:


Spend some time here reading in the women whose husbands are working against the marriage. Start on page one of people's stories...and read thru...or read for awhile, get overwhelmed for that woman...stop, and find another one. Just read...read.


Order the books. Wow, the validation. Start with book 1 and get book 2 at the same time, if you can. You'll want to start right into it as well.


Encourage your husband to get the books OR...even, I believe you can get an online version of the book for a pretty low price when purchasing a hard copy of the book. Do this, and it can be emailed to him.


Be encouraged. If he's gone to a counselor with you and looked her even for a bit, he's doing something. Change does not happen overnight. You did not become this overwhelmed, hurt, and disillusioned overnight, either. You will find a family of other women here that have walked everything imaginable...and will point you to Jesus first...and that alone is a soothing salve.


When you feel like it, start typing out some of your story. I still stay pretty overwhlemed at times thinking of my story...and it takes awhile for me to type it. Do what you can. Every little bit gets you one step closer to healing.


Glad you're here. You will be blessed.

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Many husbands want to have a wonderful marriage, but have no idea to get from where they are. They really have NO idea that they really are the cause of the problems and the one who can make it different, or not.


As a wife, yes, read read and read some more. Please, get the books if you have not ordered them already. Soak in the info, and let it give you the strength you need. All of us wives have been where you are, tired of fighting, ready to give up (or kill them!). IF you are able, give a bit of your background - how long have you been married? Are you both professing Christians? My husband for years SAID he was a Christian but absolutely refused to LIVE like a Christian.


How you go about confronting your husband will depend on where you are with him... Why does he live in another state?


If your husband is willing to go to counselling, and especially if your counsellor is on board with J & K's message, and is willing to help it become real to you both, there IS HOPE.


IF your husband chooses to reject the message of this teaching, you may have to get tough on him, and let him know that you are unwilling to live this way any longer. That's where you will have to be strong.


But, if he is willing to listen, and be changed by this teaching, you are on your way to a MUCH different life. Only time will tell.


Welcome to the forum. This can be a place of great strength for you, even in the worst of times. God has placed many before you who have gone through what you are going thru, at some level. Many of us have now gotten through all the junk and are working on having WONDERFUL, happy and fulfilling marriages. Some are still struggling through. We will all come alongside you and help you see which way to go.


Be blessed.



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Please be encouraged that God led you to this website... here is the hope you have been seeking.


My husband and I were "hopeless" and lived in separate states for 10-1/2 months... we went to an Intensive hating each other and he moved back into our home the following week! Imagine how great our God is to accomplish that :D .


There is hope in God's message of what He designed marriage to be and Joel and Kathy are His ambassadors of this message!


Please read the information and the life's stories here. Be blessed in seeing what God has done and continues to do for wives who are so hurting that it seems NOTHING could heal their wounds. God is the miracle worker!


I will keep you in my prayers.

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Hi and welcome


Question for you ........... why is your husband living in another state? Did you kick him out ? Did he leave ? work ? How long ?


Can you get him to listen in on one of the conference calls ? Right now, you are at the very beginning stages and I can hear the defeat in your voice. Many of us have been where you are now. The thinking that your husband will NEVER do this........... We are going to strengthen you and turn you into a woman who WILL get what she wants because she deserves it. God did not put you on this earth to be treated like a piece of furniture. We will walk with you through this process. It is a program - not only for your husband, but for you, too.


Be encouraged my friend. Give us more details of your situation, so we know how to help you. And, if you are afraid of your husband reading any of this, don't be. It is good for him to read your heart. He needs to understand that you are hurting, and things need to change.


Keep reading and don't be afraid to ask questions. We are all here for you.


God Bless,


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Welcome fellow marriage happiness seeker!! :D


You have just been handed the most beautiful gift by being directed to J&K's ministry. There is hope here.


The very first priority on God's heart for you sweet daughter of God is that you know that God never intended for you to survive marriage. God created marriage as a safe haven for the heart of a wife. God does not want you to just accept a loveless marriage. He wants you to be loved, nurtured and cherished.


God expressly instructed a husband to agape love his wife and lay his life down for HER. Just as our Beloved Savior went first and gave his life for us. The Bride is never told to lay her life down for her husband. A wife is only told to "philandros" love her husband with a warm, kind responsive love.


Your heart is aching and bruised because all throughout your marriage your heart reached and reached and reached out for your husband to connect with you, to draw you close, to make you secure and safe. As many of us women here have experienced is that those longings and efforts mostly fell on deaf ears and rejection ensued. No matter how many times we would desire to connect our husbands (inadvertently)turned us away. God will validate what your heart and senses have known for years. If my husband would just hear my heart, if he would just come close and listen to my pain, if he would let me address his bad behavior without reactions of pride and anger, all would be well with your soul. If somehow the fear and distance you feel with your husband could subside...your heart told you that perhaps you could breath again, live again, smile again.


It certainly is not your fault that this is how God Himself formed your inner being. God had a plan in how He made men and women differently. The reason you have a deep need in your heart is exactly the reason a man would pursue and seek you out. Men are created to give and a wife to receive. This principle bears itself out in all of Scripture. God gave and His bride must receive Him to be saved. Men are at their very best when they seek to give and love. Women are at their best when they receive life and love. God knew that as a man gives INTO his wife she will naturally give back to him. Wonder of wonders both would be loved. Both would get their needs met.


What happens is that men do not understand this principle. They are truly ignorant in what God has called them to do. Most men do not want to abuse their wives but because they are "clueless" and untaught they stumble through relationships trying to control and TAKE from others to get their need met. When a true man of God is taught rightly and given the tools and truth; that he certainly can meet his wife's needs, many men are happy at just the prospect that someone has finally told them and helped them understand exactly what and HOW to love their wife.


Even us wives have not been taught what it truly means to be a help-meet. We are demure and quiet or sit and submissively pray...but with no results. We are not taught what a powerful role we have instilled in us by our Creator. We are the manual, the road map, the instruction booklet to Godly, loving relationships.


Read the Books and soak up all you can by reading others journeys here. You will cry and laugh and others stories will resonate with you. This will bring a relief and comfort to your weary soul.


Stay and share your story...and be refreshed dear child of God.


With hope,


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There is hope! My string is in the section "wife whose husband is working to win her heart back." Reading my first several posts and jumping to the last three pages will encourage you that even the most clueless, proud, resistant husbands can change. Before I came to this ministry I thought that I was alone in my circumstances and that there was little hope for change. We are not there yet, but God has begun a good work, and I have hope for the first time. God bless you as you seek to reflect His glory in the restoration of your marriage. He will do this for you! I'll be praying.

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I think I'm going to move my post to wives whose husbands are working against their marriage. I'll explain our "history" there.


Thanks to all who responded. I hope you follow me there.


Topics merged into one by Judy

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I posted yesterday in the "couples who are working together" section, but I think I should be here.


My husband and I have been married for almost 2 years (in November). We have a one year old son, and a baby that is 7.5 weeks old. I live in Florida and my husband lives in Missouri. When we got married, the plan was to move to Missouri, but my ex husband fought to keep us here so that he could see his daughter (didn't want her to leave the state, don't blame him, she's pretty great!). So, we gave up on that fight about halfway through my pregnancy with my youngest and my husband was going to sell his business and his home up there and move down here.


That's the simplest way to explain it.


During our marriage, and even when we were dating, my husband was verbally abusive to me. We got ourselves into this cycle where I wasn't getting what I wanted or needed from him, so I would start a fight to get his attention and we would have a huge argument and break up, and then get back together again later...never solving the original problem. Apparently, this cycle was attractive to me, so I made a baby with the guy and married him!


My husband and I were both Christians, and really wanted to turn our lives around for Christ and live for him, and raise our children in the church. That was our dream.


We have been really struggling in our marriage with the abuse, manipulation and arguments. He agreed to counseling two weeks ago. Our counselor is a really great Christian counselor who I was seeing before I ever met my husband. We were meeting on conference calls. She sent us here. I got angry after reading all of the information on the website because I realized that I had never gotten what I needed from my husband, yet I knew what I needed and was asking for it. When I would ask, he would tell me I was crazy! He blamed all of the marriage problems on me! I wish I could explain how many hours and days and weeks of my life I wasted on wondering what I could have said differently or done differently to make him understand me, listen to me, hear me. That's all I wanted!


So, this morning I called him and tried to tell him that. I tried to tell him that I wanted him to be my best friend, the person I could talk to about anything, my safe place. I told him that I wanted him to just HEAR me...just BE MY HUSBAND! That's all I wanted. Painfully, what I got from him were a string of insults. I kept on begging, because I thought if I just explained it better, or said the right thing, that *ping* somehow he'd understand and all of my prayers would be answered and he would finally love me like I have wanted to be loved since we met.


Instead, he admitted to me that he had cheated on me three times, with three separate women (I guess) since we've been married. He says that he is sorry, and he wants to work it out. But, at this point, I think they are just words. He's in Missouri. He hasn't sent a dime to help support his family (remember we have two babies together, so dimes are important!), he hasn't committed to move down here, he's just up there hiding behind a business and a house that needs to be sold. I told him once before that our marriage wouldn't last through a prolonged distance, and I guess I was correct, since he began cheating on me only a few months into our marriage.


I'm really numb right now, and I just can't express my feelings the way I want to. I asked God for help. I spent so much time asking God for a good marriage, and for my husband to be the man that God had created him to be...and for once, he was. He did the right thing. He was HONEST with me and ADMITTED his adultery. I'm thankful for that. I just wish it didn't feel so darn terrible! What kind of man has sex with another woman when his wife is at home pregnant with his child? I guess in the long run it makes no difference. Like my husband says, I've been pregnant the whole time we've been married...so he couldn't really find a time when I wasn't pregnant in order to have his adulterous affairs.


We had a counseling appointment for today, but ultimately it was cancelled. I spoke to my counselor alone. I explained to her what I told my husband. I told him that if he never wanted to be married to me (that was his excuse for the cheating...that I pushed him into marrying me, so he had to go out and cheat), that he was free to do what he wanted. Our marriage is over. I am divorcing him. If at some point, he does the work on himself that he needs to do, then he may come back and I will consider whether we want him in our lives again. But, I told him that the amount of work he needed to do was very great, and that I really, honestly didn't think that he could do it. If he was in the mindframe to do it, and gave himself up to God, there is nothing that he can't do...but right now, he is happy living in failure, depression and misery...and he was more than happy to bring me down into it as well.


So, I guess I'm getting a divorce. I'm very sad. I really loved this man and wanted nothing more than to hold his hand in church every week and be holding his hand when Jesus comes back for us. That's all I ever wanted. I can't believe that I'm in this place, making appointments for divorce attorneys. But, I do believe it is the right thing to do. I have to cut myself off from my husband because he is too far gone and into hurting himself and me right now.


So, here I am! It stinks, too...because I bought the books yesterday!


That's me! I'm hoping and praying that he will let go of all of his "stuff" and turn to God and get healed. I'm hoping that he calls our counselor and sets up appointments for himself. I'm hoping that he gets himself into church and finds the forgiveness from God that he's been looking for. I pray that he finds peace with the Lord. I just wish he could have done it all before he ruined whatever marriage we had in the first place!

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You have been through so much. Just know that you are not alone in going through this. My husband had an affair as well so I understand the pain you speak about.


I just want to point out that it is great you ordered the books! Read them when you get them as they can still help you! Joel and Kathy have a way of bringing men around and mentoring them into becoming Christ-like men (because that is the low-down of what we women want in our men) and they have a process of reaching difficult (to say the least) men that is more effective than most other ministries out there. I am not a helper so I do not want to give you a course of action but I do know the course of action (you will read about it in the books and more here on the forums) Joel & Kathy recommend to bring child-like husbands around to Christ-like men. A helper will follow me at some point with the appropriate words to encourage and motivate you. Just don't give up hope now! It is really good to hear your husband say he wants to work on things.....it is time to cause him to put to action those words and work to win your heart back! Just sit at God's feet and let Him comfort you and trust Him that He brought you here for a reason and will carry you all the way through!



(If you want to read my story my thread is in the wives whose husband is working to win her heart back section. It is titled 'From Sorrow to Joy'.)

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Thank you so much for your support. I know I'm still in shock, but I do feel God's presence in the prayers of those who love me.


I trust my counselor (I downloaded the free portion of the book, and noticed that she is quoted there as well...so I know she has experience with this program), and I believe that God brought her into my life for a reason. I believe that God is with me as I continue getting counseling for myself as I begin this healing process. She encouraged me today that I can still be a woman of God, and I can still raise strong Christian children, and I can still do what it is that God wants me to do on this earth. I don't need my husband next to me to do that...I just need God.


If my husband comes around, then I'll just be all the more blessed.


I don't know if he'll come back here. I'll just have to pray that he does. The "rescuer" in me wants to e mail him my counselors name and number and give him the web address "just in case he's forgotten it", when I know that he has to want these things bad enough to seek them out himself. These are the broken parts in me that God has to heal. I've probably been trying to fix him since I met him. Now I'm giving him back to his creator to do the job...I should have done that in the beginning!


Thanks again for your words of encouragement!

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Hi again, Ugabug,


First off, I want to give you a huge cyber hug, (hug) I'm so sorry for your pain. I have walked in your shoes, as so many of us, has.


Now, before you give up, I do want to encourage you. Your marriage may not be over, like you think, because as Jaya told you, Joel and Kathy and this Ministry CAN help you. You and your husband can be happier than ever before, and your dreams can still come true. You have a lot of work to do, though.


First things first. Your husband MUST read both books, and schedule a Weekend Marriage Intensive, in Florida. This will have to be demanded by you. If he doesn't have the books, then send them to him right away. Give him a time limit - say something like, "IF you seriously want to work things out between us, then you need to read these books and call J & K and schedule us for an Intensive. I need to see actions from you, not words. On Monday ( or Tuesday, Wednesday, Thurs. ?? ) there is a Conference Call, and I want you to be on it with me. Here is the phone number. If I don't see any actions on your part by next Sunday ( you decide when) then, this Marriage is OVER." THAT's IT.


Then, honey, you go Dark. This means that you cut off all communication completely. And, in the mean time, you start getting your ducks in tow by talking with attorneys. Now, if it does come to you having to file, then please let us know, and we will walk you through that, also.


I believe that your husband WILL do what it takes to turn around, but he will "sit on it" and procrastinate until he has to do this. This is why it is so important that you put your foot down and TELL him, instead of "asking" him. YOu can be nice about it, but make sure he understands that you are serious. Do NOT beg him or plead with him, or cry in front of him. All this will do is give him power over you. IT makes him feel like he's your hero. It makes him feel that he's such a "hunk" and that you'll never leave him. It will allow him to walk all over you.


Time to get tough, my friend. Tough love is the only way to wake these immature men up.


You are young, and God has blessed you already, with two beautiful babies. Unfortunately, you have a 3rd one. Your husband. Time for him to grow up.


Hang in there, hon,


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Thanks so much for the advice and support.


I believe it is time for me to call the attorney and start the process. I could be wrong, but I feel backed up by God on this one (and my counselor agrees, too). This has been a long, hard road...and he has been given ultimatum's before. He just says what he needs to say and then I take him back and then we start the whole cycle again.


Not to mention, there is no marriage with him in Missouri and me in Florida. Especially since he has been unfaithful multiple times. He can attend the marriage intensive with me, and then return to Missouri and have another adulterous tryst and never tell me. Or better, keep it a secret until we are back together again and then use the information about it to crush me back into his kind of submission.


He is very smart, and very charming and he knows how to pull at my heart strings. I am the mom to my daughter who is almost 9, my son who just turned 1 and another son who is 7 weeks old and I can't continue to be a mess for them. We are poor, we have no money. My husband hasn't worked since we've been married, but always seems to find the money to go camping for a weekend, or to go to a triple header in St. Louis for the weekend, while I cash in my daughters savings account to buy diapers. He probably spent that money in order to cheat on me with his various affairs! Yet through all of this, he insists he's being responsible by staying in Missouri because somehow he's going to be able to sell it all and have a handful of money and come riding down her on his white horse to rescue us! I'm living in my parents house with my three kids because I had to sell my home. They are supporting us right now until I find a job. I started interviewing for jobs when my child was 3 weeks old, while my husband watched movies all night and then slept in until noon (or maybe that's NOT what he was doing every night...I don't know).


This anger isn't for you. I'm sorry. It's for my husband. It IS time to file for divorce to protect myself. Otherwise he can just keep manipulating me. I'm sure you've heard all of this before, though!

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Julie, just want to encourage you to keep coming here....pouring out your hurts, confusion, disappointments, anger, etc. No matter what your course...this place...these women will help you immensely.


You have alot on your plate...and you are right that you children need you not to be a mess. I started waking up in my marriage when I realized I was swallowing so much anger, hurt, and disillusionment...and it was coming out in my attitude towards my daughter. That's what this ministry tells women...that to stay in the marriage and become bitter...is not what God's plan is for us...and that is true.


So glad you are here. You will find Christ's healing love here.

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He can attend the marriage intensive with me, and then return to Missouri and have another adulterous tryst and never tell me.
You don't know this until you give the intensive a chance. The intensive completely turned my husband's thinking around. I encourage you to do that first. Tell him that this is his fork in the road. If the intensive doesn't turn him around, then on with the next step.
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Expanding on what Miss Jane just said...you might go read her thread and Scarlett's thread...they've both just been to an Intensive...and it completely turned their circumstances around. Great reading there. These ladies are a testament (and their husbands) to this program.

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PS ... I am not a helper. But I also wanted to say ... It sounds like you do have a good counselor, and I am glad that you trust her. What a blessing! I would strongly encourage you to also get advice directly from Joel when he returns from the cruise. He is extremely practical, no pie-in-the-sky thinking at all. Your very complicated situation would need some special guidance. For one thing, having to sell a house in this market right now is difficult. But we have a God Who is an expert at solving huge problems! God would be hugely glorified by the restoration of your marriage, and if your husband would get on board, I'll bet God will sell that house right away. You're right, you can't have a long-distance marriage!


I lived with my parents, and with two sets of friends this past fall. My situation was different from yours, but I had to get away from my husband for a time of peace and healing. I am so glad you have your parents. And I am so sorry that you had to sell your house. You have been through more than your share of pain. What do unsaved people do?? We have a Savior and Friend who has suffered and Who knows exactly what we are going through and Who wants healing and joy and an abundant life for us! And we can have that in Him!!


Please talk to Joel before you file divorce papers. That truly may not be necessary yet.

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Thank you Miss Jane!


Is it common for people to talk to Joel? I didn't participate in an intensive, and haven't participated on the conference calls, either. I don't have any additional money to spend on counseling right now. I would love to seek his advice along with that of my counselor, but I didn't know that was a possibility.


I worry about what I'll do when the book arrives. Will reading it be as painful as reading the free excerpt was?


On a good note...I feel so blessed today. Having the stress and FEAR of my marital situation removed from the forefront of my mind I am able to see that it was like a blindfold to me. I couldn't see my fathers love (my heavenly father, that is), and I couldn't see how much he valued me and cared for me while I was caught up in satan's lies that were being spoon fed to me in my marriage by myself and my husband.


This morning I woke up with a beautiful vision of the feast that God has prepared for me in heaven, a table set with gold and silver. I saw a room with jewels and beautiful linens prepared for me as if I were his bride. I saw him waiting there for me expectantly. I saw how my denying him his rightful place in my heart has hurt him all of these years. How could I have EVER questioned my value and worth when God, who created heaven and earth has prepared a place like that in heaven just for me? How could I have ever allowed someone to treat me so poorly? How could I have caused God such great pain?


I spent time last night and this morning praying to him to forgive me for this. If I had only put him first in my life to begin with, I would not have found myself in this place. But, I know God can restore me...he can and he will! I pray that he restores my husband as well, and that we can someday be together...but I know now that my future (and my children's future) does not hinge on the choices of their father now...regardless of what he chooses, we will be okay.


Thank you God for that!


I know there will be bad days, but today is a good day!

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I emailed Joel, and he got right back to me. He asked me to contact several helpers to weigh in on this with you. He also asked me to post this to you:


Joel said:

A woman SHOULD NOT file for divorce unless she has given her husbands the books, invited him onto the calls, pushed for an intensive, etcetera - and he beligerantly and stubbornly refuses all.


Chances are that her counselor is giving good advice - but just be SURE that she has given her husband this much consideration. Please post this reply onto her topic.


The filing MUST BE for the PURPOSE of RESTORATION - NOT for the purpose of divorce. Her heart must stay soft and open to him changing and she must be willing and ready to participate in that restoration. This keeps her heart open to the Lord.



So ... send your husband the books, give him the times of the conference calls and arrange for both of you to call in on the same one, and ask him to sign up for an intensive.


You can do this! God is on your team and He has already won the victory!

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Miss Jane,


Thanks so much for getting back to me and taking the time to ask Joel. I felt uneasy after reading your earlier post, so I called and spoke to Kathy. Initially, she told me what Joel posted...but then I asked her why my counselor would have given me conflicting advice. I told her who my counselor was, and she knew her and said she was on board and that I should listen to what she has to say. I also gave her a few more details about my husband and I and I believe that changed her mind as well.


I'm glad that you looked into it for me! I still want to call him and say "here's the book...please read it!" but Kathy ended the phone call telling me that I needed to file for divorce and go cold. This will be hard for me...but I will do it because I know that it's the only chance my marriage has at being healthy. Yes, if I call him today, we can get back together, but it will never EVER be the marriage God wants for either of us.


I pray that even if I make mistakes in this journey, God's grace will cover my mistakes and bring about his perfect will for my life.


I welcome your comments and appreciate your genuine concern.

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I don't know if this will help any of you understand why I need to jump to filing for divorce...I don't really know why I'm jumping to filing for divorce...I'm operating on sheer faith right now that this is what God is telling me to do.



My husband started cheating only a few months after we were married. All of his relationships (that I know of) were in Missouri. He chooses to stay in Missouri, claming that he must stay there in order to sell his house and his business. The business is losing money, which is why he tells me that he can't financially support me and my daughter (from a previous marriage) and his two children. He has repeatedly told me that he does not want to be married to me, and he does not want any part in his children's lives. He has also told me that he should not have to pay child support because he never wanted these children in the first place.


He went to Africa on a mission trip last year and when he came back, he visited me in Florida. At the time, the three homes that he owned (2 investments, one I lived in) were at risk of being foreclosed on. He found out the man who was running the business for him in Missouri was stealing from him, so he left me at home with my daughter and his infant son who was only around 3 months old at the time. I was pregnant, too. He told me to initiate the legal process to move with my daughter to Missouri with him. This whole time (and even before he left), I was paying all of our living expenses (our meaning myself and the kids). I paid my own car payment, insurance, etc...and our food. I didn't have a job because I was at home with the kids. My husband never once sent us any money. I was forced to keep going into my home equity line (from the house I owned previously...before we got married) to support our little family.


So, when hubby left and told me to hire a lawyer, I did...and spent my money on that, too...which ended up being over 5000 dollars. A few months down the road, he told me to call it off, because we were going to be required to do an evaluation and it was going to cost me ANOTHER 5000 dollars and I didn't have it. He said he would move down here with me. He said he would list his house and his business and move down here and get a job. He didn't list his house or his business until a month or two later. He didn't work while he was in Missouri. He stayed at home and played cards with his roommates, went to bars and apparently cheated on me! He would go days without calling me, he didn't call me the night before my birthday or on my birthday until about 4 in the afternoon after I was already upset and then fumed at me that I was crazy for hoping for a call on my birthday (remember, I was pregnant and ALONE...a call would have been nice even if it wasn't my birthday).


We have fought off and on for this entire time, culminating in multiple arguments where he tells me how he hates me, thinks I'm ugly, was never attracted to me, etc...followed by days of silence where there are no phone calls (in my opinion, that's him punishing me and training me not to disagree with his treatment of me in the future). We did this until a few days before our son was born. I had called him at one point and told him not to come down for the birth...and he just went silent. He for once, listened to me and didn't bother me at all. So, of course I called him begging him to come down for the birth because I didn't want to be without him for that big occasion. He stayed here for three weeks, staying in my parents house with me (I moved out of the house he had me in because I was there alone, with no help, 45 minutes away from my family, and I was afraid that the house was going to be foreclosed on soon after the baby was born, the plumbing wasn't working right and there was not enough room for all of the kids), and then when he went back to Missouri, he made sure that I paid for it by telling me that those were the worst three weeks of his life and that nobody else in the world would ever have done that for me but him.


Through all of these months and months of separation and arguing, I begged him to just drop the business (if it's not making money, who is going to want to buy it in the first place!) and leave the house (he can sell a house from out of town) and move down here with me. I needed him. I begged him. He would just get angry and say I didn't understand, that I was just willing to let him throw away the money he could make on the business selling, etc. I tried to remind him that NO AMOUNT OF MONEY was ever going to be worth losing his marriage, but he did not agree. He told me I was being a baby about it.


Ultimately, being in Missouri is where he wants to be, because he can live the irresponsible life that he's always led. He doesn't have to commit to me, he doesn't have to care for his children, he doesn't answer to anybody. He constantly goes to baseball games, out to dinner, movies (triple features, no less!), camping...whatever he wants. While I borrow money from my mom for diapers and cash out my savings accounts one by one. I owned my own home when I met him, and I used up almost all of the equity in it paying for our family, and I had to sell my house to my parents (luckily) for nothing. At least I no longer owe on it. Fortunately for me, my parents have been gracious enough to let me move into it rent free once the current tenants move out in August. I was doing everything I could to avoid doing that because my parents DO NOT want my husband living with me on their dime. I tried to get a job, and am still trying, while my husband enjoys his leisure time.


My favorite comment my husband made to me when I had the nerve to complain to him about waiting in line for WIC checks (free formula for the baby) was that maybe it would "humble me up". That's truly my favorite. I am a successful, intelligent woman with a college degree who had a job making 80 thousand dollars a year before I met him. I worked hard and took care of my daughter, I taught sunday school, I was very pretty and I was well liked by my family and friends. I had a good life. Now I am the mother of 3 instead of 1, I am tired, I am unemployed, I have no money in the bank, I am on public assistance, I am living with my parents, I have no job and no current prospects for one and I am alone. Nothing has changed for my husband. He still lives the same life he lived before he met me. I don't think I am the one who needed to be humbled!


Anyway, all this typing I guess is for me to say that I think he may "sound" repentant right now, but I think he's just saying that in order to get things back to the way they were. I don't think he really means one bit of it. I don't think he wants to change. He knows where the Joel and Kathy website is, he has been on it. So, I'm sure he knows about the intensive. He has my counselors name and number (or he did at one time, he may have deleted it). He has all of the tools to find his way back into my heart. I cannot do it for him. If I did it for him now, it would just be me trying to "fix" him...and that's what I always tried to do, and it just puts us right back into this cycle.


Wow...I think I convinced myself that I'm doing the right thing.


My heart is open to him, and more importantly, open to God...but I must stand up for myself now...even if I don't like it at times!

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((((Welcome!)))) So glad to have you here, and yet, so sorry that you find yourself in a place where you're so pressed in and have to make such difficult decisions. We've all been there, in some form or fashion, and so I'm glad that you've found the BEST MARRIAGE MINISTRY IN THE WORLD, so that you have godly, sound advice, and whatever ends up happening, you can rest in God, knowing that you've been given godly counsel & have done all that you can do. God does NOT call you to agape love your husband. He calls your HUSBAND to agape love YOU. Your hubby was created to initiate, and you were created to respond. God did not make a mistake in those plans!!! ;)


As I read thru your post, you've gotten great counsel and I too am glad that you got to talk to Kathy. She's a straight shooter and she'll tell you what you need to hear.




Kay also gave you great advice. She has SOOOOOO been in your shoes, and so she is more than qualified to give counsel on this too!


We are glad you're here, and so sorry for your deep pain and betrayal. Hang in there sweetie ~ I know you're sleep deprived right now, but realize the precious blessing in your children (esp. your newest bundle of joy!) and then think about how miserable your husband must be, as he's choosing not even to take part in his own kids' lives. That, my dear, is sad!!!


We're here for you!!


Much Love & Prayers,


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Thank you so much for your comments and support.


You know, I have been sitting here and I'm just SO ANGRY! Why would I even consider wanting my husband back anyway? It's not like I could ever touch him ever again without thinking about the women that he was with.


I feel like I should just take the "out" that God gave me and run.


And as far as my husband being miserable? I tell you, he does NOT love his children, nor does he want to see them divorce or not. He has stated plainly on many occasions that he did not and does not want them. He will not be sitting alone and miserable. I think he is not human

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Hey there, Friend,


I don't have a lot of time, and am leaving in a few hours for the Cruise.


Please be encouraged. If Kathy says file, then listen to her, but know that our entire Ministry is for reconciliation purposes, so listen to Wen.


Yes, I've been in your shoes. It's been a long hard road to follow, but God knew what he was doing the entire time. He pulled us apart, fixed us both, and put us back together again. Remember, "God is mighty to SAVE" Yes, your husband can grow up. He can fall to his knees and repent. He can learn how to love. This Ministry does work, because God is on board with us.


Follow the advice given to you. WE all care deeply for you, and you deserve the best of the best. Don't lose hope, just lean into God and trust him with all your heart. YES, Go COLD! Become the Mystery Woman in your husband's eyes. Make him wonder what has become of you. Fall off the face of the Earth (to him) for awhile. It will worry him, even though, his pride won't let you know it. NOthing makes the guys more crazy than not knowing what is going on.


Btw.... Joel and Kathy will never allow the two of you to leave an INtensive without a plan in action of getting the two of you back in the same state. The Intenisve is a MUST!


Try to go on the Tuesday morning call. It will be good for you. It's a woman's call. Don't be shy. Speak up and tell your story. You will feel better.


Hang in there, and know that I'm praying for you,


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