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MKD - great advice to 1SM...

 

Jaya - awesome post!

 

1SM - have you ever read For Him For Her's thread?

http://www.joelandkathy.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=39

 

Please do - there's a lot that you (and all guys) can learn from it.

Remember to focus on your wife the way that Christ would focus on your wife - that's what every man's goal should be.

 

HerDensity

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1SM,

 

Last night on the call, you mentioned that you are enjoying being around "like-minded people" at your church in your hometown. I want to call you out on something... you are surrounded by like-minded people here! On the calls, on the forums... and in person!! Do you reach out to these people? No! Do you call when you need someone to talk to? No!

 

Have you taken the advice given here and reached out to form a friendship with HD? No! He can relate, and obviously his wife and yours are very much alike! That might just help you relate to your wife better!

 

Your studying and learning is great, but if you are not putting it into practice, what is the point?!

 

Check out this post by Freej to Sellal2...

 

Remember [in] the movie, "Fireproof" and the lead character's friend said, "you can't go half way dude, your wife knows when you are faking it, women just know." Well there you go.

 

You can't talk about what you are gonna do. You have to do from you HEART. I could tell at the intensive that TAZ was 'trying' to DO. It's not the same thing. After I filed for divorce is when he completely broke in two and let himself love me for the woman God made me to be and I was able to clearly see the changes. It is effortless for him now. He still messes up sometimes but I'm no longer afraid to tell him so and guide him how to heal me.

 

Once you've completely stopped thinking of it in terms of "I did this or that for her" then you know you are doing it in love and that is what she will notice.

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1SM,

 

What would it say to Looney if you were to find your way back to an intensive ON YOUR OWN? The intensive is free to alums, don't forget.

 

Go to Florida without Looney?!? That would not be a good idea. She would Love to go there again. At one point, we had discussed about going in March of 2010 as sort of an "new" anniversary. Of course we also talked about going on the cruise - either one would be good.

 

As for me alone, I would first sign up for the Men's call since that's on my to do list. Just gotta re-work the finances to pay for it.

 

 

.

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Dory did not ask, "What would it say to Looney if you were to find your way back to Florida on your own?" She said, "What would it say to Looney if you were to find your way to an intensive ON YOUR OWN?" Looney can hang out with GoingSolo and anyone else who lives nearby and enjoy the beach while YOU are attending the intensive a second time.

 

I do think it is good that you are considering how much Looney would like to return to florida and are conscious of the cruise. You have definately got your work cut out for you but you can do this and you can get there!

 

 

Inregards to the men's calls you said:

Just gotta re-work the finances to pay for it.

 

How are you re-working the finances already to pay for this? what is your plan?

 

how are you going to get to a second intensive? Start thinking about this as well. Dory does NOT bring it up lightly so do not think this is something to just explain your reason why you can't and then move on from.

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how are you going to get to a second intensive?

 

How about on a bus?

 

Your wife is NOT going to feel left out if you went to an Intensive by yourself. (Yes, you could take her along and she could lay in the sun!) But what an amazing testimony it would be of your love for her if you were to hop on a bus and go by yourself! :shock:

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1SM - this afternoon, you posted the following on my thread:

HerDensity said "Profile Pic: Osmium - the DENSEST element known. Well, until I started J&K..."

 

I'm right there with ya Bro. We should have a Band... Osmium Brothers.

 

While I appreciate and enjoy the humorous comment, I immediately went to your thread to get a status update on your situation. Uh, nothing?

 

I am curious what you think your wife thought when she saw a comment on my thread, but no real status updates on your thread since 9/20. I know that you are working through things, but you HAVE to develop new habits and new thinking patterns.

 

Posting is a great way to do that, because it will force you into putting down your thoughts into a form that others understand, and it will make you learn it in another way. I try to post daily, before I go to work, because it helps me get into a mindset that isn't focused on me.

 

You have been asked MANY times to post regularly, by your wife and, more recently, by many here on the forums. We NEED to see what you are doing, thinking, working on, and how your inner thoughts are changing. We can't and won't guess - you tell us.

 

HerDensity

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This is a post to Snookster by Kay, but it applies here... (I have changed the names to apply). Their situation is not the same, but the question is one that you need to ask yourself, and find an answer to...

 

What if [Looney] was to say to you, "[1SM], I am finished with trying, and I just want to get a divorce and move on with my life"

 

What would you do, if she was to tell you this? A good question to ask yourself.

 

I know for myself, I wanted to know if my husband would fight to change my mind. I wanted to know if he'd fight for me. I needed to know if he'd just move on without me, and give up. These were huge questions in my mind.

 

You may or may not know, that I filed for divorce, after our Intensive, because my husband did nothing to show me he cared. I decided to move on with my life without him. I got used to living alone, and liked it. I was actually looking forward to being single and maybe, traveling. I loved the Peace that I was experiencing of being alone, with just my kids.

 

But, you know what? My husband fought for me. He decided that he didn't want to lose me. He didn't care how long it took, or what he had to do to make that happen. He MADE the choice! And, he won my heart back. Our divorce was officially cancelled this past June, and we are both happier than we have ever been before.

 

How did that happen ? He gave up trying to do this in his own strength, and submitted himself to Christ. He broke down and cried out to our Lord to help him, to show him the way. He was then, filled with the Holy Spirit, and through Christ all things are possible.

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1SM,

 

Can you find a place half-way in-between so that she doesn't have to drive 80 miles one way to see you? What? You don't drive you say? So now its time to think of creative ways to get to a place half-way in-between to SAVE her the hardship of doing all the driving.

 

Is there a bus system by you? Relatives? Friends? Time to come out of yourself to cultivate these treasures to aid you in life.

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1SM: I cannot get over how little you do and expect a response! On the call last night, you couldn't even do that small task...

 

Stop talking about acting and DO IT! You will like yourself so much for doing things.

 

My husband did not take repsonsibility and he is losing me, are you going to lose Looney, too?

 

And another thing - your emotional unavailability - is that from porn? Because porn is insidious. You may need deliverance from that and a breaking of the soul ties to the women you viewed while you MB'd. Every time my H made love to me, there were dozens inthe room with us. I think I would have preferred a man who had had an affair! At least there is only one girl involved.

 

Are you looking at what is going on with you to make you so passive?

 

Mel

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1SM,

 

Just wanted to add something here........... Each day that goes by with you doing nothing, or the bare minimum is another day that Looney's heart is turning away from you. I feel that your time is running out. I fear that you are losing your wife. I see another Marriage becomming a divorce statistic. Children will be hurt.

 

Is this what you want ? Can you look in the mirror and say that everything will be fine without your wife? Your family? Do you care?

 

Time's awasting, my friend. This is not a game that everyone is playing. This is real life, and your lack of motivation is going to do nothing but make Satan smile.

 

Continuing to pray,

Kay

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There are a lot of responses I could make in regards to several of the recent posts, however I understand that most people have good intentions and are trying to help. I do not write as well as some other guys. I do not compose thoughts and speak them as well as some other guys. That does not mean that I love my wife any less than some guys love theirs. It does not mean that I refuse to work the program. It means that I have struggles and want to get some straight answers. I am a guy. I do not relate to things the same way my wife does. For example, while I understand the concept of loving her like Christ loves the church, I struggle with forming something to say to her that represents that.

 

Let me clear on this, I LOVE MY WIFE. There are tangible things I can do to show this. Many of them have been posted here. The real issue, as I see it, is reestablishing that physical and emotional bond we once had. I agree that the starting point would be dating, when and if she is ready to do that. This could really only be accomplished when I can be geographically closer. Currently. she has no reason to want to date me.

 

For the record... I am not into porn. Period. Been there years ago. I am not going to repeat that story here. There is no "other woman." My thoughts are ONLY for my wife. My desires are ONLY for my wife. In fact, in the recent months after the intensive, I was begining to practice how to put her pleasure first during lovemaking. Historically, I did not consider her needs first.

 

I understand Looney's need to make good on her word of booting me out. The roller coaster effect seemed to overwhelm her. She needed space. She needed to see if I could grow. For the most part I have disappointed her, again.

.

It is late now and I am losing focus. I have questions that I will PM to one of the men helpers tomorrow.

 

Good night and God Bless.

.

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1SM,

 

Hi, when we last talked at church I told you that you don't have to do this alone, you can call me anytime to talk and get encouragement. Since I last called you to give you a wake up call to be begin working on the list your wife gave you and encourage you, it sounds like you have not moved the needle much toward Looney.

 

You know my situation, and you know how I longed for an opportunity to be able to apply what I've been taught. I got a brief opportunity before my wife left and she KNOWS that something definitely has changed in me. She just does not have the ability to accept those changes in me.

 

Looney has the ability and desparately wants you to apply what you have learned from this ministry. She has given you specific tasks to do, you know what those tasks are so the BIG question is, WHY ARE'NT YOU DOING THEM?

 

You are on a dangerous path that is leading to Looney shutting completely down on you and putting you out for GOOD! Only you can prevent this SO, take the list out that she gave you and JUST DO IT.

 

If you have to take your list by the hand and carry it around all day everyday until the behaviours become a habit then DO IT. If you need to set an alarm to remind you to do something, then DO IT.

 

BUT, you need to do whatever you are going to do NOW!!!! Before it is to late!!!!

 

As others have said, the time for talking about what you want to do or what you are going to do is way past over.

 

PLEASE JUST DO IT, AND DO IT NOW!!!!

 

I care about you and you know I have your best interests in my heart as I say these things to you. Please, please, please, wake up and do this for your wife and yourself.

 

You know how to reach me if you want to talk.

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1SM,

 

or the record... I am not into porn. Period. Been there years ago. I am not going to repeat that story here. There is no "other woman." My thoughts are ONLY for my wife. My desires are ONLY for my wife. In fact, in the recent months after the intensive, I was beginning to practice how to put her pleasure first during lovemaking. Historically, I did not consider her needs first.

 

Thank you for addressing this. This just so happens to be OUR area of expertise!

 

Your childhood woundings led you into porn, and your current emotional disconnect is a by-product of this indulgence, be it past or present. Minimizing the fact of this sin does NOT make it dissolve, nor does it magically heal the inherent aftereffects. I do not say this to shame you for the porn or SG, but to get you to open up to the fact that you need to be transparent to Looney in ALL matters concerning your one-flesh arrangement. Once you share your innermost secrets with her and she accepts you as you are despite them; so long as you confess them and work WITH her to irradicate all traces of their poison, only THEN will you BOTH feel like a one-flesh TEAM fighting the good fight and moving forward.

 

If you know so much about the insidious effects of porn and SG, then how much of that knowledge have you imparted to your kids to retrain them differently from the way you were raised? If you have done nothing in this area, then you have probably passed the wound of neglect/ignorance onto them. We have B.T.D.T. too and are now working to change that generational curse. The curse only continues to exist in ignorance and apathy. Don't keep the light of understanding under a bushel.

 

"A" type wounds = "abense wounds" = direction/love we should have been given but weren't

 

"B" type wounds - "bullet-type" wounds = bad things that happened to us but shouldn't have

 

Both wounds need to be brought out into the light and understood in order to be healed of. You heal them by working thru them in a loving environment. For a married man, this means bringing them to his wife and letting her help him fight the good fight via her presence, her relational capacity, her body, and her prayers. But if you fear Looney or shut her out, you deprive yourself of this healing. Overcoming that fear of her (mother-son issues) requires Jesus's strength. So you need Jesus to gain strength to go to her. You NEED her in order to heal yourself of these 'things' (wounds turned into sin) in the flesh.

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Been there years ago. I am not going to repeat that story here

 

As Dory said, You NEED to talk through these things with your wife. Apologize to her for the past, and ask her to help you through them.

 

Why not ask her out on dates, regardless of where you are living. Who knows, maybe, one of these days, she'll say, "YES"

 

And, then when you are alone with her, "TALK to her" and apologize for your past sins. Assure her of your love for her.

 

We heard you loud and clear when you said, "I LOVE MY WIFE" but, it's not US who needs to feel this love. It's LOONEY!!

 

Call TAZ - Call somebody................ DO IT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!

 

I'd like to casually let you know that we are almost $3000.00 poorer because of our "divorce proceedings" It STILL angers me. We could have USED that money! Trust me, You don't want to have to go that route, when the easy way is right there inside of you!

 

Continuing to pray!

Kay

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I do not write as well as some other guys. I do not compose thoughts and speak them as well as some other guys.

 

Who are you comparing yourself to? I think most (or ALL) of the men in this ministry struggle with communicating with their wives, sharing their feelings, etc. If they were good at it, they might not be here!

 

BUT, if we let you off the hook due to your supposed inability, then we are going to have a LONG line of men who want to sign up for the same pass that you would be getting! Give me a break!!

 

This ministry is about calling men to GROW past what they are in the flesh!! That is called DYING!! It is allowing God to help you become more than you EVER could be on your own! If you refuse to let him, then you are refusing to die. You are continuing to live in the flesh, feeding the flesh, and letting the flesh conquer your life. Is that what you want?

 

Don't be proud of making a decision to live in the flesh. Don't brag about it. Don't use it as an excuse. Don't come crying to others when you are unwilling to improve the things that you are struggling with. You obviously need to PRACTICE the things that you are not good at!! If you are not good at communicating, then PRACTICE!! If you are not good at posting, PRACTICE!! If you are not good at telling your wife that you love her, PRACTICE!!!

 

Here is (another) analogy for you...

 

If you had a puppy, it would require that you feed it. If you lost your job, your would still need to feed that dog. You cannot tell the dog, "Sorry, I am not able to feed you". It will starve, even if you give it the crumbs from your own dinner. You need to find a way to feed that dog, or give it a new home. Plain and simple.

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1SM said:

 

reestablishing that physical and emotional bond we once had. I agree that the starting point would be dating, when and if she is ready to do that. This could really only be accomplished when I can be geographically closer. Currently. she has no reason to want to date me.

 

If this is true, then THIS is where you start! YOU give her a reason to want to date you!

 

YOU COULD post on here, your love for her. YOU COULD post every single day, another reason that you DO love her. YOU could write her a lengthy letter (even if it took you ALL DAY!) and tell her what you can remember that she used to LOVE. YOU COULD post an apology here, for everything YOU can recall... YOU could just keep trying, keep pursuing, keep professing your love for her. YOU could send her an "e-card" EVERY DAY. YOU COULD call her, MANY times a day, and initiate apologies, and HOW you want things to be different.

 

I have been watching you guys, and listening to you on the calls. There really is SO MUCH you COULD DO, and yet you simply refuse to do it. OF course she doesn't WANT to date you, you have SHOWN her that YOU DON'T WANT HER!!!

 

I know that you "guys" want to "figure things out" on your own. But reality IS, you need to stop FIGURING, and start DOING. She is going to resist for awhile - until she sees for sure that you are SERIOUS. YOU cannot give up- unless you are telling her you are done with your marriage for good. Are you?

 

Or will you choose to step out of your comfort zone and PROVE your love for her?

 

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Hi 1SM,

 

I believe the Lord is leading me to direct you to the following scripture:

 

2 Corinthians 12:9

 

9But he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me.

 

Don't allow what you perceive as shortcomings of your own hold you back from doing what the Lord is leading you to do. Step out in faith, and know that the Lord will meet you where you are at. If these things that are being required came easily and naturally to you, it wouldn't really be stretching you. If we aren't stretched, we don't grow. If you are asked to express something you find attractive about your wife, lay it out there. It doesn't matter if the others listening think what you said was suave, or smooth, or cool, or romantic. It doesn't matter if they laugh out loud. You've got to let that stuff go, man. Anything influencing your response other than touching Looney's heart is tainted by pride - and she will smell it from a mile away. What matters is that you put yourself out there, at risk, for your wife to see. I think that she is still in a place now where, if you did that, you could say the corniest thing in the world, but it would touch her heart. How long will she stay in that place? I don't know, but if I were you I'd be taking action pretty quick, because she may not stay there forever. Trust the Holy Spirit to give you the words just in time that Looney needs to hear.

 

There are a lot of responses I could make in regards to several of the recent posts, however I understand that most people have good intentions and are trying to help. I do not write as well as some other guys. I do not compose thoughts and speak them as well as some other guys. That does not mean that I love my wife any less than some guys love theirs. It does not mean that I refuse to work the program. It means that I have struggles and want to get some straight answers. I am a guy. I do not relate to things the same way my wife does. For example, while I understand the concept of loving her like Christ loves the church, I struggle with forming something to say to her that represents that.
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May I add here that if I had used your excuse and not allowed God to grow me up (and most of the women on here, too), I would be just as complacent as you! But in the Kingdom, we are called to throw ourselves at God's feet and become who he can make us. You are talking as if you are not in the Kingdom! Or that you don't believe in the power of God!

 

Sad,

Mel

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There are a lot of responses I could make in regards to several of the recent posts, however I understand that most people have good intentions and are trying to help.

 

First of all, I believe that EVERYONE here is trying to help you - if they weren't interested in helping YOU, they wouldn't be posting on your thread. Stop leaving yourself convenient excuses to ignore some people's insight under the guise of them not having "good intentions". You need to listen to EVERYONE, because they are all telling you the same things in different ways, in hopes that one of them will actually get through to you.

 

No one is judging your speaking, writing, or posting aptitude, just your DESIRE to actually do those things to heal your wife. Your lack of MOVEMENT is the evidence that speaks volumes - 1SM doesn't love his wife because he won't do little things that she and others are asking him to do.

 

Right now, it doesn't MATTER what you want! Plain and simple. If something makes you UNCOMFORTABLE - GOOD! Growth isn't comfy.

 

You are making choices by not doing things to heal your wife - and those choices will leave you ALONE. You cannot expect Looney to want you - you have hurt her with your inaction and your neglect. If you REALLY want her back, then PROVE us wrong - SHOW HER.

 

You are not in the same home as Looney because you didn't do the things that she needed you to do - you wouldn't/couldn't and you left her no choice (you even admit that).

 

You are so scared of trying and failing that you won't try - well, then you will stay right where you are. Failure brings growth - like you've been told, God is present in our weakness.

 

Step up.

HerDensity

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When are you going to stop thinking about what YOU want and do the SIMPLE things that have been laid out for you? Yes, you want to go back home. SO DO THEM!!

 

Since you left...

 

Have you APOLOGIZED to your wife for not meeting her needs all these years?

 

Have you told her EVERY day that you love her?

 

Have you called her and told her that you love her FIRST in your phone conversations?

 

Have you called her JUST to say "I love you", without discussing business?

 

Have you told her that you are sorry for being with another woman in the past, for the past porn, and she is the ONLY woman for you?

 

These are some pretty simple steps that you can do, BUT you MUST be willing to OPEN YOUR HEART to her, put aside your own PRIDE, and bless your wife. So far, you have been unwilling to do this. And that is why you are in this place. This is NOT rocket science.

 

You cannot continue to ignore suggestion after suggestion, then claim that you don't know what to do. It cannot get clearer than we have made it for you...

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1SM - Do you have Ken Nair's "Discovering the Mind of a Woman" with you?

 

I have been reading it recently, and I am in Chapter 7 right now - the title is "That Mysterious, Incomprehensible Woman". The main point is that, as men, we approach problems differently than woman do - I think that you understand this, since you said the other day:

I am a guy. I do not relate to things the same way my wife does.

 

You're exactly right - we don't relate to things the same way that women do. That's how God designed it; that's not your "fault" or my "fault", or any other guys' "fault".

 

The problem becomes when we guys try to fix or relate to problems only from a man's perspective - most of the time, we send COMPLETELY the wrong message to our wives. An example: if I come home from work and my wife says that she is completely overwhelmed by homeschooling and can't tell if the kids are on the right track, etc., and I say "Well, have you been marking off what they've done on the schedule every day?" - I have basically said that she isn't smart enough to follow a schedule, and I have The Answer to her problems.

 

In reality, what she wants to hear is that I am concerned about her heart, and the fact that life has her overwhelmed. She doesn't want a practical response, she wants a validating response - she wants to know that I understand that she is emotionally overwhelmed and wants to share that with me, rather than have me "fix" the problem.

 

Something else that it talks about in that chapter is that when a man can't solve a woman's problems using his normal tactics, he becomes frustrated and begins to feel like giving up or that he won't ever figure out how to make his wife happy. Eventually, this wears him down to the point where he stops caring about her and loses interest in the marriage.

 

As men, we try to fix things "mechanically", or with a mechanical mindset; something along the lines of "If the engine ain't runnin' right, change the oil; if that don't fix it, change the spark plug. If that still don't fix it, you need an overhaul". That won't work with wives - they aren't mechanical. If we don't choose to learn a new set of "problem-solving skills", then we are going to decide that we can't fix them, and give up - usually, that will change our marriage into a relationship where we are just trying to "keep the peace" instead of truly learning to "live with our wives in understanding".

 

I would like to suggest that you work at approaching your wife differently - show her that you care about her by seeking out the "non-practical" aspects of things that she is sharing with you. When we are always focused on the practical, we are sending a message to our wives that their emotions (the majority of who they are) isn't important to us.

 

This isn't easy - I won't blow smoke up your skirt; but, it's a way to show them and others that we are trying to change and grow. Your flesh will fight you - as you try to listen to her heart and her emotions, you will want to defend and deflect, rather than listen and validate. Just know that if you start to feel angry about things that she is sharing, you are beginning to feel the emotional side of things, and you have to not respond in anger, but initiate something positive despite the anger.

 

I hope that this helps some - I know that you've been told so much to do, and that you are having a hard time sorting out where to start. To be truthful, you can start ANYWHERE that begins to change your heart - that's the main issue here. You aren't going to be able to heal her heart without opening yours - and the only way to do that is to do things that you haven't done before.

 

Praying for you everyday,

HerDensity

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From your wife's thread:

So the top things I need from 1SM are:

 

1. Tell me he loves me and needs me in every conversation, and not just as I'm hanging up, like it's an afterthought.

 

2. Post every day, and actually respond to the people who post to him. Ask questions, let people know what he's thinking, and stop giving everyone the impression that they're talking to a brick wall.

 

3. Initiate contact with one or two other men who can help him through this (initiate means not waiting until THEY call HIM).

 

Maybe if he could do those things, he might make a little progress.

 

OK, bud - there's a practical, well laid-out set of things that your wife is looking for you to do every day.

 

Take these things seriously and do them.

HerDensity

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