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Let me pose this dilemma...

When I am hugging my wife and she seems to be just putting up with it, am I to continue? (I think I should continue, maybe try again after a bit.) It seems so counterproductive to do something that she is obviously not enjoying.

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1SM - I agree with my wife here; if you need clarification on something that your wife told you, then that is something that you need to INITIATE a conversation with her about, not put her into a "she-said, he-said" discussion on your thread.

 

Your wife works a bizarre shift, and she has a mini-farm to run, and several children to feed and care for...

 

She NEEDS sleep. I think that her point here is that your physical contact/affection should not be something that happens when she is trying to sleep!

 

Besides, I believe that the intention of 20 Hugs/Smiles/Kisses is for those things to occur when she is CONSCIOUS!

 

HerDensity

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A great post by another on BAs thread, applicable to you:

Broken Arrow,

 

Get off your horse named Pity and stand up and freaking do it! My goodness. This is so simple. Do SOMETHING! Why is it so hard to do SOMETHING?

 

 

I get so angry at all the men here who whine and cry like a baby while I am watching their wives give them chance after chance after chance. How many chances is the magic number for ya'll. Is it 20,30,100,or 1000? This is NOT rocket science. If you love your wife, DO THE RIGHT THING!

 

Every single man who comes here knows the difference between right and wrong. We may have made stupid choices but we were given brains or we would be dead. COME ON! Stop being selfish! Stop being idiots! Stop hurting people you claim to love! Listen to God! Listen to your WIVES! Listen to your Children! Listen to those who came before you! LISTEN! Open your hearts! Open your minds! Open your soul!

 

I have spent the last 25 months busting my hump to learn every single thing that I can to become Christlike so that it will give me one chance. Let me say that again, ONE CHANCE! That is all it will take because I LOVE my wife and family enough to CHANGE! I have endured more than most people could in a lifetime but it didn't defeat me. Why? Because I chose not to let it. Why is that so freaking hard to understand?

 

I am sure that I will get in trouble for this post and it is not directed at just you Broken Arrow but all the men who WON'T do what it takes to heal your wives broken hearts. I hope every man who comes here reads this. STOP telling us what you are going to do and start showing us! Words mean nothing until the doing is in place.

 

I am a man and it drives me BANANAS to watch this over and over and over. I can only imagine what this looks like to a hurting wife. This will NEVER stop until YOU make it stop, period,the end. If another man was treating your daughter the way ya"ll are treating your wives, how would you react to that man? Would you tell your daughter it is ok for someone to treat her that way? Think about this! Your wife is SOMEONE'S daughter.

 

So get up off your whiny hineys and start being a MAN!

 

God Bless

David

 

You are still sitting and waiting and talking, instead of DOING.

 

He that has ears to hear...

 

HerDensity

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ISM,

 

To answer your question:

When I am hugging my wife and she seems to be just putting up with it, am I to continue? (I think I should continue, maybe try again after a bit.) It seems so counterproductive to do something that she is obviously not enjoying.

 

my point of view, she is resistant, because you are not YET believable. When you have become believable, she will not be resistant. Yes, keep trying. Make sure your hugs are tender and caring, not just "duty hugs" (hugs that only last about two seconds, with no real feeling going on, they just don't count!!) She will soften with YOUR consistency. She needs to know that you are in this for the long haul! That you are going to make a HUGE effort about becoming a part of her life. Not just living with her, in the same house, but LOVING her throughout all of life.

 

GO OVERBOARD... And then, keep going!!!!!!!!

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And don't blame her for not responding (especially when she is asleep!)! The "blame-game" is a sure sign to your wife that you are still only thinking about yourself, not about her! When you stop talking about what YOU want, what YOU need, how YOU tried, etc, she will know that you are trying for HER, not because you have to.

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To my most beautiful wife,

I Love You. You are the most precious gift that anyone could ever have. God has blessed you with many talents and you radiate His love.

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Thank you Eeyore, HerDensity, Hoping for Sunshine, Pure In Heart, Faithworks, Xena and Taz for each of your perspectives and encouragements.

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1SM - Being married to a man who spent his entire life playing the victim, I want to share something with you. When a man feels that nothing in his life is his fault, he is playing the victim. When he refuses to take responsibility for his actions, he is playing the victim. When he refuses to think first about others, he is playing the victim. When he refuses to grow up, he is playing the victim.

 

In HD's case, his victim role was due to the abuse at a young age, then his parents lack of recognition and lack of support for him. I knew that something was wrong, and after years of counseling, the abuse came out. However, HD used this as his justification for this "victim mentality" for the next 15 years.

 

But the point is this... whether you admit it to yourself or not, I strongly believe that you are living in this victim mentality. It is like the "bad kid" in school... they get attention for being "bad". They don't care that the attention they are getting is negative attention, they are still getting attention, and they live off this attention.

 

The same thing happens with a "victim". To be honest with you, it does not matter what happened or why you are in this place. But you must recognize that the ONLY way out of this place is to put your wife first... without fear of rejection, without blaming her when things don't go your way, without blaming the phone or the kids (or whatever else) for not talking to her... YOU need to do the right thing! There are NO acceptable excuses for not dying to yourself. You see, using excuses is the opposite of dying to yourself! It is feeding your own flesh! So, you must do the opposite of what your flesh wants. You must step out of your comfort zone. You must do the right thing, even if it feels like you are going to die in the process. Because you know what? You are NOT going to die. In this, you will find LIFE and LOVE and HAPPINESS!! But it is the only way to achieve this. Go first...

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When I am hugging my wife and she seems to be just putting up with it, am I to continue?

 

YES. Until SHE cries "uncle" you do whatever you need to to apply healing to her wounds. "taking the initiaitive" even with the chance of possible rejection is an application of healing.

 

Giving her the OPTION to REJECT you is actually BLESSING her! A woman needs to feel pursued whether or not she is able to give in. Pursuit by a knight in shining armor is a blessing! Knights who don't "get the girl" don't ride off with their tail between their legs, they KEEP trying!

 

Somewhere inside of you this desire to be a knight might have been shut down. But the question isn't when or by whom or by what was this desire shut down. Answering THAT question is just an exercise in frustration and further self-focus. The REAL question is ... how do I get it fired back up? You DO this by turning all your attention onto the greatest gift that God gave to you, your WIFE!

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To the Great Woman who has endured all these years, I Love You.

You mean the world to me and I miss you very much.

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Today I reviewed a conference call from 12/17/2008. The part of interest was Joel reading and commenting on a letter from "Patty" regarding the progress of her husband "Bill." This is a very good way to review the basics for interaction after an intensive. It reminded me not only of the things that I need to be doing, but the mechanics of properly initiating and doing the homework.

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. Dory - The link to the post was helpful. Thank you.

. Getting fired-up and giving all attention to my wife shall be the #1 goal.

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TTFN - and on to some happier times.

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Dear L_T,

I Love you!!! Wow! What a lover you are!.

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Today has been plagued with flaky PC & phone service.

I am unable to get on the call. I get a message that I am using an invalid access code. Was it changed??

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I shall spend some time reading another book. "The Man In The Mirror."

 

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Good Night All.

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Dear L_T,

pssst, hey lady, let's watch a movie? (A J & K dvd that is.)

I Love You because... You Rock! You express what you need and you mean what you say.

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Dory - Don't know what was up yesterday, code is accepted now.

 

For Him For Her - No robot chickens here. Posts will get better over time.

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TTFN

"I will have victory over my Goliaths - God says so."

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Dear L_T,

You are the energy that keeps me ticking. I Love You.

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.Hey everybody, Have I told you all how great my wife is?

.Well, She is! Very great and wonderfull too.

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I have a question about a bible reference (1 Tim 2: 9-15) that was mentioned on one of the calls. To whom should I direct such questions? What I want to know is how to respond to someone who brings this up in a conversation about marriage and the role of women in the church. Is there already a post on this?

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Good night & Bless ya'll.

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I have a question about a bible reference (1 Tim 2: 9-15) that was mentioned on one of the calls. To whom should I direct such questions? What I want to know is how to respond to someone who brings this up in a conversation about marriage and the role of women in the church. Is there already a post on this?

 

Pure in Heart just answered this same question on a wife's string (jitterbug is her name) recently. Here it is:

 

1 Timothy 2: 9-12

 

I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes, but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

 

First this is a Church conduct issue and NOT a marriage issue. Paul is writing Timothy a personal letter...Paul is not discussing universal Scriptural principles but addressing Timothy's problems at Ephesus. Paul entreats Timothy and gives in the first Chapter the reason for his writing Timothy...Paul is helping Timothy to confront issues in Ephesus. Ephesus was in Greece and notably some false doctrines were getting in that were antithetical to the Gospel.

 

Paul goes onto address propriety and good works which is evidence of a Godly life.

 

Paul talks about women and dress...then changes from plural women to "a woman" in this passage. Paul probably was talking about "A" particular woman who could have stirring up trouble and trying to teach false doctrines.

 

Paul changes back to the plural at the end of the discourse...

 

The word used here for "authority" is the only place this is used in the whole New Testament...the ususal word Paul used was exousia. Here it is a totally different word. Paul uses authenteo...where we get our word authentic....interesting...my guess is that Paul was actually saying "that" particuular "woman" was not preaching an "authentic" truth that she shoud be quiet and submit herself to THE truth.

 

Paul would not have told Timothy women should be quiet...or they could not teach...after all later in this same Book Paul mentions a woman who is an Apostle. There are several women mentioned in the Bible in leadership roles in the Church (Priscilla, Junius, Phoebe) Paul mentions they were deaconesses and Apostles. A woman pastor is mentioned in Romans 16. Jesus and Paul both depended on women in their ministries.

 

The word in all "submissiveness" is hupotage...translated here as to align, to obey or control oneself. If Paul here is talking about "a" woman then Paul is clearly saying this woman needs to get with the program!! The other places Paul uses hupotage is talking about "subjecting" to the truth of the Gospel. Once it is used regarding children obeying. It is only found 4x in the New Testament.

 

Remember that this same argument came up in the Corinthian Church...about women being silent....and Paul adequately addressed the same subject...by essentially saying...you have got to be kidding....

 

The Jewish culture of that day was to seperate men and women at synagogue. Some modern Jewish traditions are still the same way. It seems however that the face of the CHurch was changing as Jewish believers were incorporating Gentiles. The Gentiles were experiencing a freedom including for women they had not otherwise known before Jesus. In the Corinthian Church Paul talks about people prophesying and speaking in tongues out loud and some of those were WOMEN!! SO Paul would not keep changing his mind about women being an integral part of the Church and being viable members who were involved.

 

Hope this helps...

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Hey 1SM,

 

You said, a couple days ago:

For Him For Her - No robot chickens here. Posts will get better over time.

 

I know that you have been working on the consistency of your posts, and we are seeing that, but I also think that your wife needs to see more, so it might be a good time to decide to kick it up a notch.

 

She needs to see you PURSUING her in any way that you can.

 

My wife really laid some truth on you tonight - I hope that you can receive it and make some real changes as a result of it.

 

HerDensity

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On Sunday I challenged you to get to know your wife and her life, and to make a REAL decision to join her in that life or get out.

 

Where are you in that decision?

 

What have you been doing while she has been gone?

 

What have you been thinking about?

 

What have you been working on?

 

What have you been dreaming about?

 

You have not seen your wife since last Friday...

 

Did you hold her tight when she walked in the door?

 

Did you tell her that you missed her?

 

Did you greet her at the door with your overalls and straw hat on? :wink:

 

Are you ready to help fun the farm WITH your wife?

 

Are you ready to fill the void that has been there throughout your entire marriage?

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1SM,

 

It breaks my heart to see your wife STILL enduring your "lack of' emotion... I know for a fact that it is the simple matter of a choice. A choice to do what you THINK you cannot do. A simple CHOICE to die to self, and become this man that everyone here KNOWS you could be, if you would only make that choice.

 

Get off your tail, and get moving!

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Dear L_T,

I am sorry for not being sensitive enough to remember to turn off the phone ringer in the bedroom.

I say I love you and then I forget something important that you want. That was not very consistent or considerate of me.

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And this morning, I didn't even try to call you. It does not matter why. I just did not do it. Once again, I am sorry that I disappointed you.

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Thank you HD - Would you have some ideas on what other topics I might discuss in my posts?

 

Dory - I read the post by Joel and the referenced post by wanting to love my wife. I am a bit unclear about what aspects of the posts you want me to note. Was it the way the guy was venting about his wife's actions? Or perhaps it is about how he chooses love & forgiveness, etc. but still sounds like he is blaming his wife?

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Eeyore - Oy! Dat's a lot o questions! Let me see if I can cover them.

The decision - I would join her. There is still farm stuff I need to learn. Haven't yet found out what that fence tool is. :?

 

What I have been doing / working on. - Reading books, typing out notes from the dvds, doing laundry, fixin' the fence, doing dishes, keeping the fire going. Not to mention hours on the phone with Tracfone to get Ash's phone working. Other stuff like that.

 

Thinking / Dreaming - Mostly about what things I could do here to be useful. Dreaming about what it might be like to have a happy wife.

 

When she got back here, I met her at the door in my jeans - sans straw hat :) . I did give her a hug and a mooch. I think I said I missed her. Have to ask her. Her need was to get a nap before running back out to drive the kids to lessons.

 

That void I put there is mighty deep. I'll need a backhoe to fill that. [Or maybe just God's help.]

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Gotta go finish cleaning up the kitchen.

TTFN & Have a Great Rest of the Day!

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Haven't yet found out what that fence tool is.

 

WHO CARES?? When you do find out what it is... first hit yourself on the head with it, then put it to some good use on a piece of fence!! Use it!!! No more excuses! :evil:

 

I think I said I missed her. Have to ask her.

 

No, I am asking YOU!! You CANNOT tell me that you don't know what you said to your wife! :evil:

 

One more thought... on the call I told you that you were "playing stupid". You insisted that you are not. Well, you are... but I do realize that it is not a conscious thing. Just like the mother-son issues... that repulsion that men feel toward their wives is not a conscious thing... but it is still there, it is still a fact, and it is still something that needs to be changed.

 

A second "one more thought"...

 

I did give her a hug and a mooch.

 

NO MORE MOOCHES!! No more baby talk!! No more acting "CUTE"!! It is VERY attractive to a wife when her husband begins to GROW UP and his voice gets DEEPER. It is sexy and inviting to the wife. She will be drawn to that. You need to begin to grow up and let this change occur... it will, and your wife will respond. But baby talk makes a wife wanna PUKE!! Why would you want to initiate THAT response??? You have been told this before. NO MORE BABY TALK!!

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