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Pardonn my ignorance or density, but i guess i just don't understand how these two statements add up.

 

Why must he continue to just hang on the phone.

 

This tells me I'm not worth listening to, my feelings don't mean squat and never will mean anything to him.

 

It sounds to me that he loves to listen to you, unless maybe its your 'feelings' of 'not wanting to TALK to him' that you want him to hear.

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Dory,

 

This is an ongoing issue with Jamer. Instead of going over it again, I hope the following will clear it up.

 

This para in bold is part of a post I wrote to Joel, but it reiterates the part where jamer asks me tons of questions all the time. Joel's response to this was that jamer needs to stop w/the questions immediately. Obviously questions are a part of a relationship, but not when they constantly taking the responsibility off jamer and putting it on me.

 

As far as all the questions, this has been an ongoing issue and he knows about it. Does he really need to ASK ME if he should leave an extra banana in the house? Can't he just put it in the fruit bowl without saying anything? You may think, 4toPol, it's just a banana, get over it. However, I need to tell you that this is after asking multiple little tiny detail questions all in an effort to avoid decision making and put the decision making on me.

 

 

This is the part that explains the issue with talking on the phone.

Hi all,

 

I need help with an issue about jamer.

 

I am going to describe what happens and then talk about a revelation I had this morning. But I still need help with how to deal with this.

 

The example I will use to illustrate the issue will be jamer calling me when he is out of town or even from work. I would prefer not to hear from jamer. I don't like talking with him on the phone, I basically have nothing to say to him. This has gone on for years, not just since he moved out. In addition to having nothing to say to him, he is VERY hard to understand on the phone. He also has a habit of not speaking directly into the phone or he calls me on the bluetooth (he has gotten better about that) or he calls when he is outside so any wind or outside noise makes it hard to hear or from restaurants, elevators, etc. He is trying to get better about that. Anyway, between the accent, background noise and him not speaking into the phone, it's just one big frustration and makes it not worth the effort. Joel, maybe you remember when we had a conf call w/our pastor last week, you had to keep asking jamer to repeat because you couldn't hear him. Well imagine having to do this with every phone conversation several times a day. Would that become irritating to you espcially if you've discussed this issue ad nauseum? Of course it would.

 

Anyway in January I was trying to explain to Joel & Kathy that I don't want jamer calling me so much when he's traveling. I was not getting my point across and Joel could not understand why I would not want jamer to call because J&K teach husbands to call their wives frequently when on the road. Joel did say that it looked like I was trying to push jamer into the arms of another woman. Well, that's not it at all. The only reason I could give for not wanting to hear from him is that it's very difficult to hear him on the phone, which it is.

 

It has taken me all these months (I was afraid to bring it up again) to figure out the underlying reason why I don't want him to call. It has also become apparent to me that I don't want to talk with him or txt him that much either. Some women would give their right arm to have their husbands txt & call as much as jamer. They would give their right arm to have their husbands help around the house like jamer does, because he does help.....by doing things that he THINKS will make me think he is wonderful.

 

Here is my revelation. 99% of the time jamer calls, txts or contacts me he is looking for strength from me. He is looking for me to say something that will feed his ego. He is looking for certain responses to comments or questions. Responses that will give HIM strength. Even when he thinks he is encouraging me, he is really thinking this, "If I say this to her then she will say that to me." And then when I don't react or resond the way he EXPECTS me to, he is frustrated, maybe not on the outside frustrated, but I can FEEL IT. I have often said that jamer is sucking the life out of me, but I have not been able to explain why or how.

 

Believe me, I have lived with guilt over this, I have beat myself up wondering what my problem is, why don't I want him to call me when he is traveling. Other women would die for this, but with me is calling feels like I'm dying when I have to talk with him.

 

Instead of FEEDING ME STRENGTH JAMER IS LOOKING TO GET STRENGTH FROM ME and it is totally exhausting. I need HIM to be the strong one, to make decisions, to take the hits. I have very rarely had that from him. He looks to me for strength in 99% of the conversations we have whether in person or phone or txt or email. He literally IS sucking the life from me.

 

Does this make sense? The new song from Sanctus Real, "Lead Me" if you have not hear that song find it RIGHT NOW and listen to it. Anyway I heard it for the first time yesterday and realized that is the cry of my heart and I have NEVER HAD THAT FROM JAMER. Instead I have had to lead and get kicked around all at the same time. Leading does not mean being a drill sargeant. Leading does not mean being the CEO of the house.

 

Leading means:

loving me to you

taking the hits

never letting me think that I am a pain

believing in my dreams with all your heart and not secretly thinking I am ridiculous

protecting me and not letting coworkers suggest that I be the booth bimbo at a trade show

making sure the brakes are fixed before I have to ask repeatedly

looking at me as a precious jewel, not a rock

knowing that how you treat the kids has a direct affect on me

loving the kids if for no other reason than that they ar a part of me

knowing that when you pick on the kids you are ripping my heart open

knowing that disorganization drives me nuts and working on things that will help keep things neat and organized

NOT repacking the car when we go camping AFTER I have packed it and have everything nice and neat. You repack it and make it a disorganzied mess which, of course you know makes me insane

 

Leading is loving and that is how it is meant in this song, this is the chorus with my thoughts in paranthesis:

 

Lead me with strong hands (meaning you will take the hits, you will protect me, you will ALWAYS HAVE MY BACK)

Stand up when I can't (meaning, I can have a soft place to land, I can be sad, heck I can be sick without having you freak out. I NEED YOU TO BE A MAN!!)

Don't leave me hungry for love (meaning I'm starving here, LOVE ME AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH HELP ME LIVE!!!!!)

Chasing dreams

What about us? (Yes, what about US?)

Show me you're willing to fight (Will you take the hits? Will you protect me? Can I relax and know it, whatever "it" is is covered? Do I always have the be the strong one and make decisions?)

That I'm still the love of your life (I've never been the love of your life, YOU have been the love of your life)

I know we call this our home, but I still feel alone (I'm tired, I no longer have the strength to carry you and me. I've always been alone)

 

So that is my revelation, now what to do about it? He is acting like the wife in this marriage and that is why I always feel like he saps the strength from me when we communicate.

 

What do I do?

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my recommendation -- if you want it -- is NOT TO SPEAK with Jamer for two weeks (not on the phone, not when he comes over to do whatever "chores" you have approved for him to do) -- and HE MUST bring up whatever topics he wants to speak to you about ONLY on the forum for approval and THEN he must strictly go by those approved topics OR ELSE you are allowed to hang up on him

 

This sounds good. I would like to start it next week after we get back from 3 nights of camping. Unfortunately in a moment of insanity I thought it would be a good idea to go camping in the mountains. We do this every year and have a great time....now I can't cancel because my dd would be very disappointed and I don't want to do that. I will soon be telling her that we will not be able to afford her jazz violin lessons due to the extra expenses of jamer not living here so I don't want to have to cancel camping. At the time I wanted to do this I was still in the mode of giving jamer chances to prove that he is changing....sigh....I love the idea of having pre-approved topics to discuss. He really needs help with that.

 

Jamer has violated every boundary -- and still keeps pushing -- still keeps writing as if he is the good guy who just can't do it right (poor him)

 

This is EXACTLY how I feel. I see he just posted something about getting help with topics which is good, but he used the excuse that he won't beheable to get on the men's calls due to work and ME. Well, he will only miss ONE CALL due to camping, but it makes it sound like he will be missing several due to camping with me and one kid, not kids as he says. Our oldest can't go with us. I would venture to guess that he hasn't been on a men's call in weeks because he is traveling a lot, but going camping is only responsible for ONE missed call and honestly, he could get on it if he wanted to.

 

I apologize if you feel I am being too harsh.

 

June, you are not too harsh, you are sweet, kind and I love your heart. How can I ever express to you my gratitude for sticking with me through this? Thank you so much for your support and advice, I do not take it lightly and treasure it with all my heart!

 

Blessings,

4toPol

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Hi 4toPol

 

Jamer is blessed to even have you as a wife who has one little piece of her heart left for him -- we will pray that GOD does a mighty work in Jamer -- and a healing in you.

 

since you have already made plans to go camping with your dd, why not have an index card of topics that you would be willing to have conversation about with Jamer ON THE TRIP....

and also take an ipod or mp3 player with headphones of praise music for when you have had enough of listening to his voice -- (bring extra batteries :rotfl: )

Bring a camera or pencils w/drawing paper -- perhaps a small board game or deck of cards -- (we personally LOVE Apples to Apples and they make it in travel size)

 

Blessings and FUN WISHES GALORE!,

 

June of

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He is looking for me to say something that will feed his ego. He is looking for certain responses to comments or questions. Responses that will give HIM strength.

Yup!

 

My husband used to be giving his revelation on a subject and insert the words, "Right?" or, "Eh?", or "You see?" every once in awhile. It was as though the listener better agree wholeheartedly, that second, or else he (the listener) would be seen as a raving lunatic rebel, or something.

 

Sorry to invade your space. You DO need to cut Jamer off from all that talking! Like June suggested.

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please do not enter the place of bitterness --

 

View Postjamer, on 22 August 2010 - 08:46 AM, said:

You are incredible at making the things look pretty in the house

You always organized things and it keeps things clear!

Smile: when you are happy and smile there is brightness about you!

Your eyes are focused and bright when you are happy

You are loving mother

You are genuine!

There is depth to what you are saying

You mean what you say!

 

your reply to Jamer

Can I just throw up now? Someone mentioned that all the compliments are just blah blah blah and they are. I don't need more words from you. What I need is action. Jamer, I won't be able to take this much longer.

 

The statements that Jamer made are all true -- thank the Lord that Jamer at least has enough sense to see it....

 

You definitely do need to see that action --- and we are ALL praying that he WILL start doing that.

 

(I am the one who told him that without the actions backing up his words it is just blah-blah-blah-blah -- trying to get HIS ATTENTION!)

 

Blessings,

June of

Edited by Ward & June
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(I am the one who told him that without the actions backing up his words it is just blah-blah-blah-blah -- trying to get HIS ATTENTION!)

 

 

Hi June,

 

When you said it just words, blah blah blah, you said what I've been thinking....so many words.....he's always said stuff like this which is why it doesn't impress me. I compare my journey with jamer to sitting on his lap having him rub my back, whispering sweet nothings in my ear and then suddenly hauling up and punching me in the face, (not literally) with the crazy making, abuses and passive/aggressive things he does. I've given jamer this comparison before and I think Joel & Kathy too, but I'm not sure, I think I may have said it in our one-on-one meeting at the intensive.

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Last night on the call I praised jamer for some of the things he did yesterday, I also told him where it went wrong. Susan made a point of showing jamer how I had been singing his praises for like 15 minutes. I pointed out that I can't praise him a lot because then he stops trying.

 

I went to bed with a light heart and woke up with a light heart. I saw jamer at a camp thing that our youngest was at and he brought me down almost immediately with his joking face (which I hate and he knows it) stupid questions and then ending the time together with more questions and then frustration/whining.

 

I really can not stand him. I really can't.

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To Everyone who has helped Jamer and myself I want to let you know how much I appreciate you all.

 

The last few days have been very difficult. I don't want to get into details. It has become apparent that I need some professional counseling. I am unable to deal with the pain anymore. Yesterday I was actually trying to figure out how old our youngest should be before I can die and get out of the pain. After mulling this over for several hours, I realized I was actually planning my own death and what would be the best way to do this. Praise God, I realized what I was doing and I know I need help.

 

At this time I need to concentrate on getting myself better. I have looked to Jamer to do this, but he is not. I need to concentrate on my mental health and looking to the Lord, not Jamer. I cannot work on this marriage it is tearing me apart and making me nuts. I have to get some help for myself. I have told Jamer this.

 

Thanks for all the help these last few months. You all are wonderful.

 

Pray that I can start to feel better soon. Thanks so much.

 

4toPol

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Dear Father God,

We pray for Your loving arms to surround 4toPol -- to bless her in every way. Help to bring about all of the sweet memories of things YOU HAVE DONE to show her loving care. We thank You that You desire us to bring ALL of our anxieties to You, that Your yoke is easy and Your burden is light.

The joy of the Lord is L's strength -- may you fill her with YOUR JOY, YOUR STRENGTH -- our sister is weak -- help her dear Lord, Abba Father.

 

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honorable, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

Keep the children close to you also, dear Lord, as these sorrows in the household are hurting both L and the children... Let each of us remember to pray that YOUR glory be shone as you bring about the "peace that passes all understanding" into the heart of L.

 

We pray also, Lord that you would get hold of J and show him what he MUST DO to become a Christlike husband, a Christian husband. If he does not know you as Savior and Lord, may you bring this to him today.

 

satan, you have no dominion over this household -- it HAS BEEN AND IS COVERED BY THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS! your presence is not welcome, so you must leave.

 

prayerfully in the name of Jesus Christ,

 

 

 

Blessings,

June and Ward

Edited by Ward & June
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4topol,

 

Yes, you need to take a break from your husband. It is not worth losing that beautiful person God loves and has great purposes for.

 

I have had my bouts with depression and other psychological struggles also due to my marital conflict. I do understand and pray for your comfort in these trying times.

 

I had to go on an anti-depressant for awhile just to stabilize my emotions and get back to a state of well-being.

 

I am profoundly sorry that you are feeling the fall-out from your husband's on-going abuse and lack of kindness toward you. The great pull of our heart's desire going unmet and the constant failure of a husband grieves also the heart of God. You are not alone. The Lord understands your battle fatigue and your fragility of soul.

 

We are here for you and are praying as well for God to completely revive you and rescue you from this place of devastation you feel.

 

God will make a way for you where there seems to be no way. He will part the waters of your distress and you WILL crossover into a pleasant place. Your joy will return in that day. God is watching over you even now to perform His Word and sending healing to you. His angels are surrounding you and your daughters. He will come right on time to redeem this situation and breath again into your frailness of heart a strength and courage you have never encountered before. The Lord believes in you. He sees and knows the place you are. He knew before you called His Name. He is delighted in you because your heart is brave. Many would not have risked what you have. Truth has gone deep into your inward parts and God will complete the perfection of Himself within you. He is giving you a true heart and a heart of faith as you have asked.

 

Much love sister,

 

Kimberly

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I realize that these statements may be hard for you to believe right now, but GOD's WORD does not lie -- you can trust them, L. Please have faith to believe them and be encouraged -- take a few moments to use this as a "quiet time" and look up each verse - thanking the Lord God Almighty, Creator of heaven and earthy, your Abba Father, who loves you so very much, that HE IS HERE FOR YOU now and always.

 

Who I Am In Christ

I am accepted...

John 1:12 I am God's child.

John 15:15 As a disciple, I am a friend of Jesus Christ.

Romans 5:1 I have been justified.

1 Corinthians 6:17 I am united with the Lord, and I am one with Him in spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 I have been bought with a price and I belong to God.

1 Corinthians 12:27 I am a member of Christ's body.

Ephesians 1:3-8 I have been chosen by God and adopted as His child.

Colossians 1:13-14 I have been redeemed and forgiven of all my sins.

Colossians 2:9-10 I am complete in Christ.

Hebrews 4:14-16 I have direct access to the throne of grace through Jesus Christ.

 

 

I am secure...

Romans 8:1-2 I am free from condemnation.

Romans 8:28 I am assured that God works for my good in all circumstances.

Romans 8:31-39 I am free from any condemnation brought against me and I cannot be separated from the love of God.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 I have been established, anointed and sealed by God.

 

Colossians 3:1-4 I am hidden with Christ in God.

 

Philippians 1:6 I am confident that God will complete the good work He started in me.

 

Philippians 3:20 I am a citizen of heaven.

 

2 Timothy 1:7 I have not been given a spirit of fear but of power, love and a sound mind.

 

1 John 5:18 I am born of God and the evil one cannot touch me.

 

 

 

I am significant...

 

John 15:5 I am a branch of Jesus Christ, the true vine, and a channel of His life.

 

John 15:16 I have been chosen and appointed to bear fruit.

 

1 Corinthians 3:16 I am God's temple.

 

2 Corinthians 5:17-21 I am a minister of reconciliation for God.

 

Ephesians 2:6 I am seated with Jesus Christ in the heavenly realm.

 

Ephesians 2:10 I am God's workmanship.

 

Ephesians 3:12 I may approach God with freedom and confidence.

 

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.

"The more you reaffirm who you are in Christ, the more your behavior will begin to reflect your true identity!"

(From Victory Over the Darkness , by Dr. Neil Anderson)

 

praying for the Joy of the Lord to bring you strength -

 

Blessings,

June of

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Kimberly, thanks for saying "hi". :-)

 

I did something today to protect my boundaries, but it wasn't easy. Two weeks ago I told jamer to leave me alone, don't do anything for me, don't bring me anything including chai tea which he used to do a couple of times a week. I need a break, I need to heal and I can't do that with him constantly keeping me off balance.

 

I am going to a counselor, I need to heal and jamer does not provide that for me so I've decided to save myself so my kids have one healthy parent.

 

We work in the same small company so it is not easy to avoid each other, but it is possible. The first week after I told jamer to leave me alone he did. The 2nd week he was out of town so that doesn't count. Today he comes in with a chai tea for me. I refused it. I said, "I told you not to bring me anything, you are ignoring my boundaries once again, this is about boundaries." I know it's only chai tea and I know it SEEMS like a nice gesture. However, this gesture was about HIM and not me. He ignored my boundaries using a nice gesture and now I'm the one who has to spend the rest of my morning trying to get back in balance and focus. I truly believe this is done intentionally and it is manipulation. For someone on the outside it seems like such a nice gesture, such a sweet thing to do. Thankfully, because I'm concentrating on getting healthy I can now see this for what it is. He has consistently, throughout our entire marriage and supposed recovery time, blown my boundaries to bits, totally ignored them, smashed through them, etc. But it is still hard not to feel like a schmuck, but unlike what would have happened 2 weeks ago, I WILL get through this attempt at manipulation without getting depressed or thinking horrible thoughts about myself. I guess I am starting to see through this mess a little.

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Hi 4toPol,

It is so good to see you posting -- have been praying for/thinking of you.

 

Your strength is returning to you, slowly & surely -- and hopefully, the offer tai chi tea will not upset the apple cart too much. I feel sure that Jamer is being encouraged to pursue you and initiate acts of goodness. For you presently, the act of goodness is to be left alone for a season. You are right, he is only thinking of himSELF when he does this act of service -- and this is cluelessness or wishful thinking perhaps, or it could be, as you say, manipulation. Whichever the case, your boundaries do need to be preserved.

 

Has J made the decision to "die to himSELF" yet? -- I am not certain. Does he fully understand the depths of hurt he has heaped on you and the children? -- probably not. His postings do seem to indicate that he is beginning to understand the hurts and pain he caused.

 

When he truly does "die to self" and realizes that "it is not about me" (as Ward puts it), then it is my hope that you will see this and will be able to respond warmly to that -- for now, though, that is not there.

 

Please stay posting -- we are FOR YOU -- we care about you -- GOD CARES ABOUT YOU, so keep "casting your cares on Him for He cares for you."

 

 

Blessings,

June of

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Hi 4toPol,

It is so good to see you posting -- have been praying for/thinking of you.

 

Your strength is returning to you, slowly & surely -- and hopefully, the offer tai chi tea will not upset the apple cart too much. I feel sure that Jamer is being encouraged to pursue you and initiate acts of goodness. For you presently, the act of goodness is to be left alone for a season. You are right, he is only thinking of himSELF when he does this act of service -- and this is cluelessness or wishful thinking perhaps, or it could be, as you say, manipulation. Whichever the case, your boundaries do need to be preserved.

 

Has J made the decision to "die to himSELF" yet? -- I am not certain. Does he fully understand the depths of hurt he has heaped on you and the children? -- probably not. His postings do seem to indicate that he is beginning to understand the hurts and pain he caused.

 

When he truly does "die to self" and realizes that "it is not about me" (as Ward puts it), then it is my hope that you will see this and will be able to respond warmly to that -- for now, though, that is not there.

 

Please stay posting -- we are FOR YOU -- we care about you -- GOD CARES ABOUT YOU, so keep "casting your cares on Him for He cares for you."

 

 

Blessings,

June of

 

 

Hi June,

 

I've wanted to post, but am not sure where to post. I am also in the other side of the fork in the road, but really don't know if I should be there. I'm there in my heart, but not sure where to post any more.

 

No, the offer of chai tea did not upset the apple cart too much. I am getting better at getting my balance back because my exposure to jamer is so limited.

 

Jamer may be encouraged to pursue me, HOWEVER, bringing me chai tea was something that I specifically asked him NOT TO DO when I asked him to leave me alone. So of all the things he could have done he chose to do one of the things I very specifically asked him NOT to do. So you see, the tea was ALL about him and NOT AT ALL about me, this is why I believe it was manipulation, yes it's a strong word, but I've just been around him so long that his tricks are pretty apparent.

 

No, jamer has not made the decision to die to himself. He has not hit rock bottom and although his posts may portray a person who is starting to "get it", I don't believe it and I don't feel it in my heart.

 

On the positive side, not having exposure to jamer has really been great! I FINALLY have a joy in my heart and spirit that I've not had in years!!!! God is so good and I know He has my back!!

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I have had a light bulb moment.

 

Jamer is very good a agreeing to everyone and everything....on the outside. He will nod and smile and agree, even if someone is telling him his faults. Therefore it APPEARS as if he is listening and understands and will "do better".

 

However, the TRUTH is that he will do whatever he wants because deep down inside he believes he is correct. And THAT, my friends is what is going on here, which is why we have not been able to progress in marriage recovery.

 

It has taken me YEARS to realize this very simple concept, well, I think I did realize it but didn't want to believe it until now.

 

Did you all know that I am the daughter of a King and not just any King, but the KING OF KINGS. I was not born to be abused. I was not born to live in abuse, that was never the intention of my Father, the King of Kings. This morning my King gave me a new white dress and told me the mud, dirt, thorns and dung would be washed away. He also told me that if I had not gone through the last years I would not love Him as much as I do now. When I was born He rejoiced, He laughed, He was excited because He knew I would be HIS. And I am HIS, thank you Father that you rejoice over me and you've got my back!

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4topol,

 

However, the TRUTH is that he will do whatever he wants because deep down inside he believes he is correct. And THAT, my friends is what is going on here, which is why we have not been able to progress in marriage recovery.

 

It has taken me YEARS to realize this very simple concept, well, I think I did realize it but didn't want to believe it until now.

 

Wow, that my friend is a revelation. Understanding revives us. It brings life and strength.

 

The most notable characteristic of the "passive" man is that he abuses by what he refuses to do.

 

What specifically for the wife does this look like? I believe it is that he consistently with a stubborn resistance refuses to DO what SHE needs. As soon as she makes a request, presents her need, cries out in desperation; her husband will make sure he does everything BUT what she asks for. For the "passive" type of man this IS his CORE ABUSIVE NATURE at work and that very thing for him to ever, ever make headway is to first identify this about himself and then DIE to it. It is honestly, that simple.

His major problem comes out in his thinking that he really is NOT the problem here. He is set in his thinking, grasping at straws, claiming he is confused because he thinks he has it all together and refuses to be teachable. You, L were given to him by the Lord to teach him about the depths of God's heart and the many facets of love and being like Christ.

 

It is not abnormal for most husbands coming to this ministry to be called out on resisting meeting her need. That is already been established. But men like jamer, do it under the pretense of making sure they have done other things first that present them in a good light. So, now the wife points out...Hey, you are not meeting my need and He says, But look at all I have done. She now is in a dilemma. Yes, he has done things but they were what HE IS COMFORTABLE WITH and NOT what she NEEDS.

 

This is called sabotaging the relationship. If he meets your need then he has to connect with you and he avoids that connection like the plague. This is his carnal, sinful behavior, developed out of Arrested Development he has to die to and do the opposite of what he wants to break the cycle. He learned somewhere along the line those certain behaviors to please other people to get love. He decided that this is all there is to love. He surmised these things or learned them to get love in his family of origin and from others. He must learn that properly loving another does not necessarily mean those behaviors that worked for him in the past and with other people work all the time. He needs to get out of his comfort zone and LISTEN to what you are asking him in each and every moment to KNOW and learn to understand what YOU NEED to be loved.

 

 

Since he is so good at presenting to others this face of Mr. Nice Guy, he finds it near impossible to repent of this and humble himself. He defines his whole existence by what he thinks is right and good instead of dealing with others on their terms and GIVING into others needs. That is God's definition of love. It is also God's definition of an Initiator in marriage.

 

I believe he must repent of this manipulation, as this is what it is and the root of it is mother/son issues. It is almost like getting back at his wife for what his mother did. He is, in essence punishing the wife for the failings of another. And as we have learned in this ministry, his mother did not understand she was leaning on her children in a dysfunctional way. Forgiving his father is the root and finding compassion for his mother.

 

To break the bondage and stronghold...even though that stronghold may be subconscious, underneath the surface, is to focus on the wife and her specific needs. For example...your need L is for him to leave you alone. To give you space and time to heal and gather yourself. It is a time to be strengthened again after your long battle. When he does what you NEED, his bondage is healed. He is set free. Loving you is the way out for him. It also means that he is hyper vigilant on ONLY MEETING the NEEDS YOU ASK HIM TO MEET.

 

(he may be being told to initiate acts of love and I will copy this to his string so he knows to STOP)

 

When you are good and ready then you will let us know.

 

This IS how he dies to himself. His own thoughts that he thinks and has determined make relationships work needs to die. God gave him a help-meet to show him a better way of love.

 

His ideas are skewed and have caused damage and he needs that same revelation. Believe it and act on it. ACT on what makes his wife feel loved. To meet her needs. To listen to your heart. That means what it means. LISTEN to the actual words coming out of her mouth and DO them exactly.

 

I am thinking of you. I pray this helps.

 

Kimberly

Edited by Pure in Heart
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Thank you Pure in Heart, I can so connect to your post. My responses are in purple.

 

4topol,

 

 

 

Wow, that my friend is a revelation. Understanding revives us. It brings life and strength.

 

The most notable characteristic of the "passive" man is that he abuses by what he refuses to do.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!! But he won't OUTRIGHT refuse, he SILENTLY refuses.

 

What specifically for the wife does this look like? I believe it is that he consistently with a stubborn resistance refuses to DO what SHE needs. As soon as she makes a request, presents her need, cries out in desperation; her husband will make sure he does everything BUT what she asks for.

 

For the "passive" type of man this IS his CORE ABUSIVE NATURE at work and that very thing for him to ever, ever make headway is to first identify this about himself and then DIE to it. It is honestly, that simple.

 

His major problem comes out in his thinking that he really is NOT the problem here.

YES YES YES!!!

 

He is set in his thinking, grasping at straws, claiming he is confused YES YES YES!!!

 

because he thinks he has it all together and refuses to be teachable.

YES YES YES!!!

 

You, L were given to him by the Lord to teach him about the depths of God's heart and the many facets of love and being like Christ.

jamer doesn't REALLY listen to me, he never has.

 

It is not abnormal for most husbands coming to this ministry to be called out on resisting meeting her need. That is already been established. But men like jamer, do it under the pretense of making sure they have done other things first that present them in a good light.

YES YES YES!!!

 

So, now the wife points out...Hey, you are not meeting my need and He says, But look at all I have done.

YES YES YES!!!

 

She now is in a dilemma. Yes, he has done things but they were what HE IS COMFORTABLE WITH and NOT what she NEEDS.

YES YES YES!!!

 

This is called sabotaging the relationship.

YES YES YES!!!That is what he continues to do.

 

If he meets your need then he has to connect with you and he avoids that connection like the plague. This is his carnal, sinful behavior, developed out of Arrested Development he has to die to and do the opposite of what he wants to break the cycle. He learned somewhere along the line those certain behaviors to please other people to get love.

His mom expected perfection, by can we just get over that??? So if you read this jamer, that is not an excuse for you, GROW UP!!!!!

 

He decided that this is all there is to love. He surmised these things or learned them to get love in his family of origin and from others. He must learn that properly loving another does not necessarily mean those behaviors that worked for him in the past and with other people work all the time. He needs to get out of his comfort zone and LISTEN to what you are asking him in each and every moment to KNOW and learn to understand what YOU NEED to be loved.

I have bent over backwards to give him chances and opportunities to do this, he continues to walk all over me.

 

 

Since he is so good at presenting to others this face of Mr. Nice Guy,

YES YES YES!!!

 

he finds it near impossible to repent of this and humble himself.Oh he SAYS he repents, but true repentance bears fruit and he has no fruit with me.

He defines his whole existence by what he thinks is right and good instead of dealing with others on their terms and GIVING into others needs.

YES YES YES!!!

 

That is God's definition of love. It is also God's definition of an Initiator in marriage.

 

I believe he must repent of this manipulation, as this is what it is and the root of it is mother/son issues. It is almost like getting back at his wife for what his mother did. He is, in essence punishing the wife for the failings of another. And as we have learned in this ministry, his mother did not understand she was leaning on her children in a dysfunctional way. Forgiving his father is the root and finding compassion for his mother.

 

To break the bondage and stronghold...even though that stronghold may be subconscious, underneath the surface, is to focus on the wife and her specific needs. For example...your need L is for him to leave you alone. To give you space and time to heal and gather yourself. It is a time to be strengthened again after your long battle.

He continues to ruin this for me. I think the only way I can gain strength is to divorce.

 

When he does what you NEED, his bondage is healed.

He has been given every opportunity to do that and driven me to the point where I had to cut off 90% of our contact and tell him to leave me alone. Yet he still tramples all over the boundaries I set up. Which is why I don't see any alternative than divorce for me to be able to breath again.

 

He is set free. Loving you is the way out for him. It also means that he is hyper vigilant on ONLY MEETING the NEEDS YOU ASK HIM TO MEET.

He has RARELY done that.

 

(he may be being told to initiate acts of love and I will copy this to his string so he knows to STOP)

 

When you are good and ready then you will let us know.

 

This IS how he dies to himself. His own thoughts that he thinks and has determined make relationships work needs to die. God gave him a help-meet to show him a better way of love.

 

His ideas are skewed and have caused damage and he needs that same revelation. Believe it and act on it. ACT on what makes his wife feel loved. To meet her needs. To listen to your heart. That means what it means. LISTEN to the actual words coming out of her mouth and DO them exactly.

Yes, that would be a beautiful thing, however I have no hope that will happen. My hope is completely and utterly gone and that no longer makes me sad as it used to.

 

I am thinking of you. I pray this helps.

 

Kimberly

 

There are many things he has done since I asked him to give me space, some of these he has given his side of in his posts, but it is never the whole story. I'm too tired right now to write everything down.

 

Thanks for this post.

 

L

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Jamer is like a pin ball. He keeps bouncing around trying to rack up points (a legend in his own mind). You know how a pinball will get "stuck" in a hole racking up crazy points until it gets spit back out? That is jamer asking for advice. He is bouncing around asking for advice, supposedly pouring his heart out of how he's messed things up. He says Help me, help me, what do I do? Someone fix this!! Someone say something that will fix this!!!

 

All the while bouncing around, getting useless points for things that mean nothing.

 

When all the while he has missed the opportunity to make the choice to just do this. It IS a choice. He does not CHOOSE to do this. He jumps around looking for help, advice from everyone around, meanwhile he has no intention of making this CHOICE. But as long as he ACTS like he is LOOKING FOR HELP then it will be harder for people to realize that he is not making the choice and never will.

 

Yesterday I saw him talking with Pastor and another brother in Pastor's office. My guess is that they are going to pray for deliverance for him. He's been prayed for before. They can do all the deliverance they want, everyone can pray their heads off including jamer. But it will come to nothing because he still does not CHOOSE to do what is required. Some men blatantly reject this ministry so you don't have to guess if they are rejecting it. Jamer has taken a much more subtle route. He is going through the motions, but he is silently rejecting this ministry. It would be easier if he just blatantly rejected it. It would have saved a lot of time.

 

So, what does a man get who refuses to make this choice? Well, the answer to that is nothing. Jamer will have nothing. I don't want him, our kids don't want to be around him. He's lost it all.

 

I mentioned before that it used to make me really sad to talk about not having hope for this marriage. But over the last few weeks as jamer has consistently and persistently blown threw my boundaries, I have lost that sadness. I am still in the grieving process for the "death of a dream" as I call it. But the lack of hope does not phase me anymore and bring me to tears as it used to.

Edited by 4toPol
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