Struggling to Love

[firewalker]

Oh, BTW

 

Asking a porn addict to go to a video store for a "safe" video is like asking an alcoholic to go into a bar and order a Coke with you. Dangerous at this point in your sobriety.

 

631. You need to know your boundaries and inform your wife why they are important to your sexual integrity. She likely hasn't been an addict and may not know what you need to abstatin from or what the process of renewing your mind looks like for you. Keep her completely in the loop. She is your accountability. Utilize her heart for you to support you in prayer when you are feeling attacked. Stop everything, seek her out, ask her to pray with you for strength. Also, use your weakness to reach out to your wife. Turn it on its head. When you are feeling weak, seek her out and ask what she needs prayer for. Ask her how you can serve and bless her today, at that point in your day. Get your focus off yourself and get it outwardly focussed on meeting your wife's needs.

 

Don't do this alone. Don't ever let your mind convince you that you are strong enough to do this alone. You are not. You need your wife, and if she feels too hurt or angry at any given moment to hear what you have to share, you need to call another man for prayer and for accountability, and try and share with your wife at better time for her. First, the Lord, then your wife, then your fellow brothers in Christ.

 

It aint just you and God. That Doesn't Work. Ever.

[631]

I agree with everyone. We have been very careful about what movies we watch, and review them through several different sites. Sometimes, one site will disuss things in more detail than another, and visa vera. We don't watch general tv really, however we did just order SkyAngel TV. I was excited in that there are some programs on there, like the Discovery Channel, that have some interesting shows. The other day, when Hope was watching "Dirty Jobs" I walked in. After a bit, she got up and left the room, so I changed it to kids programming We have only watched part of "Dirty Jobs" and no other shows that I can recall. It has mainly been for the kids or PPV movies (All carefully selected by SkyAngel for content). I have been guarding myself rigouresly.

 

I am so upset that this even happened but I can't focus on myself. I know Hope is even worse off by how I treated her as a result of not discussing it with her. Again, I am open to whatever consequences she feels would be in line for my actions.

[hope]

I so wish the no media thing would be the answer, but last time we did that it got us nowhere. He didn't even get closer to me. After no media, we screened everything...at least when I was involved. At home he would pretend to be all on top of looking up movies on pluggedinonline.com and other review sites to make sure we wouldn't run in to anything bad, but when away from home, he watched whatever he pleased and looked at whatever magazines he wanted. He is so incredibly untrustworthy. He will do and say whatever it takes to be acceptable to the person he's with. With me, he's careful about movies, tv and anything that could be lustworthy, when with his work crew he'd drink alcohol (something he told me he wouldn't do)...he adjusts to his surroundings and has no convictions for himself. I have absolutely NO safety or security with him.

[hope]

One more thing to add...you can focus on what's in your hands (his phone that he was playing games on) or look beyond and focus on what's 3 feet away. It makes it really hard to believe he didn't mean to look at the video.

[JoelandKathy]

Hi Hope and 631 -

 

If this post is not helpful, please forgive it. I am very sleepy and it is the week of Shekinah passing last year - emotions are getting hit - so, if you feel like I am opening wounds instead of bringing healing here, ask the wonderful helpers who have been walking with you more closely.

 

Every wife is dead, dog tired of trying to speak up to hubby in being his helpmeet when they find this ministry. Every wife has to say, "Ok. this is a new day. My husband is agreeing to LISTEN to me - so now I am going to take a deep breath and start again!"

 

I see the video trip as a success for 631. He was focused on his phone (we recommend that a husband focus on his wife when this is an issue - he could have been walking a couple feet behind you, eyes trained on you!") - but for the moment, he was doing good - looking at the floor, then at the phone. The fact that he looked up and saw a video cover was not a sin. It was not a hit on your marriage. It was a video cover that just happened to be there. Then he looked away immediately and went on with the store visit and your date night.

 

That is is exactly what we would recommend. We are not responsible for temptations. We are only responsible to not fall into them.

 

Kenneth Hagin used to say, "We can't keep a bat from flying over our head, but we can keep it from building a nest."

 

Even Jesus was TEMPTED in every way, like we are. There are no temptations that any man has ever had that is new.

 

So, your husband had an opportunity to say "no" to temptation. The compulsion to act on that temptation is tied to the childhood experience that we explain in the 'favorite posts" section. (The Why of porn, adultery and flirting). So a guy needs to do a quick mental exercise when he is tempted.. "nope. No interest. i love my wife and I am turned on by her" and he uses that emotional reaction inside to put energy toward his wife, such as backing up and looking at you from behind, or my favorite, looking down your wife's shirt.

 

The goal here is to get healed by replacing the dysfunction with the solution. It is not going to help your relationship for your husband to say "whoops.. just saw a video cover." It is better for you to notice that he is "checking you out" and you can assume that he is doing his internal work - and that is a good thing.

 

It is like a person who quits smoking. They can't focus on "I'm not going to smoke. I'm not going to smoke" It is "what can I replace smoking with right now that is positive. I have an urge to smoke, so I am going to make love with my spouse, or play with the kids, or help the kids with homework etcetera.

 

Trust your instincts, Hope. God has given wives "radar". If he looks at porn or has a fantasy or self-gratifies, you will "know" it - you will feel "something" wrong in the air. If you don't feel that, then trust that he is not falling to temptation and yes, if you see him gawking or something, point it out to him immediately. But Kathy would not have wanted me to tell her every time that my eyes saw a picture on a video cover or something. But if I "fell" for the temptation by doing a double take or locking on to commit the image to memory, then I would be guilty and should confess it.

 

Your husband wants to beat this thing - let him fight that battle with helps by you of "hey, what are you doing looking at her? or that video? or that billboard?" This is if you see him obviously not winning the battle.

 

But remember, the winning way is for him to forcefully put his focus on you. He needs to "diffuse" the struggle to check someone else out by saying, "I love my wife and am attracted to her. I do not need to affirm to myself that I am attracted to other female bodies. I am focused on her and her alone." At some point, that "clicks" into place and the bulk of that struggle is OVER. After that it is just normal guys, being surrounded by sexually stimulating material at every turn. That is just the world we live in and cannot escape unless we want to live on a mountain or on a deserted island.

 

In other words, a guy is not guilty for seeing a video cover. He is not guilty for seeing a pretty female. he is not guilty for seeing a billboard.

 

He is only guilty if he allows the sudden reaction inside to NOT make him turn his focus onto his wife.

 

We hear so many guys who struggle with these surface issues and I am TOLD (but do not know from personal experience) that dealing with the surface issues is what "every man's battle" talks about. "Bouncing" the eyes etcetera. Yeah, bounce my eyes right onto my wife - if that is what they are saying - then that is a good thing. I don't think that is what they are saying though...?

 

Kathy's cheerleading to women is "It is a new day. We have your husband LISTENING to you. Sure you are tired from the years he did not listen. So is every other wife in bad marriages. But don't let that stop you from GOING FOR THE GOLD!

 

On the children, one thing that we are SO grateful for, is that we somehow perceived, at a young age, that our relationship was more important than our children. Even in our bad days - we intuitively knew this.

 

So, when our first son was home from the hospital, in the first week, Kathy left him with a "sitter" for five minutes. Then it increased. By two months we were able to go on a two - three hour date, leaving him with a sitter.

 

When we went to church, we instinctively KNEW that we needed the respite that the nursery offered, so yes, our children cried for the first ten minutes when we would leave them in a church nursery at six months old, six weeks old! But they would quit crying in ten minutes. We were able to have husband and wife time. Us time. Alone time.

 

When we traveled as a family, we would "land" in a town and we would call a few churches. "do you have any teens that you recommend to sit with children?" We would get the parents number, took the churches word and the parents that they were trustworthy - and we went on a date! At LEAST once a week. If we could not find a teen, we would find a daycare and pay for a day so we could get some alone time.

 

Anytime that we moved, our FIRST priority was to locate sitters.

 

Your relationship MUST take precedence over the children. If parents are not healthy, then children just get more dysfunctional by being with them all the time anyway.. and having six days a week with HAPPY parents is ten thousand times better than seven days a week with dysfunctional parents.

 

One of our "rules" of a happy marriage is MINIMUM - one date night a week, JUST for husband and wife. No kids. This takes sitters.

 

Then you can use those sitters for longer stays away - such as an Intensive. The kids who are old enough to understand are told that this is a week for mommy and daddy to get more happy together. For the ones who are too young to understand? Like three or four? They won't remember a thing, in most cases - and the rest of their lives will be much better.

 

Think about it... we took Chris and Jen to Disney when they were 3 and 4. We had a great time. The children were laughing and having SUCH a great time. We were "building memories" for them of a great childhood.

 

They don't remember one second of it!

 

So, if a child is one, two, three or even four - they won't remember you being gone for five days and the rest of their lives will be SO much better.

 

If all else fails, you can hire our daughter, Jenifer. Bring all the kids! They can stay at our house. I think she asks $200 for two children. $300 for 3-4 children and $400 for five or more children... that covers all five days plus all five nights so you can FOCUS and forget they exist. Jenifer is amazing.

 

If they eat normal food, that is included. If someone wants special food - then they have to pay for that, of course. Our home is a children's wonderland. The only problem you will have is convincing them to go home!

[For Him For Her]

631,

 

Luke 8

 

16 "No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.

17 For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

18 Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him."

 

God Bless

David

[631]

[631]

Oh yeah, been working with my mom on babysitting availability so we can make it to an intensive. Pretty tight right now for time. The Sept intensive won't work so going to try for one in October if it works with her schedule. Please pray that something works out with her schedule and we can make this happen!

[631]

Me again. One of the goals of this ministry is for the husband to create a safe place for their wife to share her hurts and frustrations. I just took that away from Hope in person and on the forums. She posted a comment on a frustration related to the time that I get home from work, and I defended myself on my thread. I'm sorry Hope. I will create that safe place on the forums from here out. Please continue to post on my forum and comment in regard to my posts, I am the one that needs the retraining. I need to hear from you in order to make myself better. I don't need to be chasing your posts and getting defensive or explaining myself. I was wrong and I am sorry for trying to trample you down.

[dory]

Indeed you two are in a 'pins and needles' place in time right now. Anything you do brings pain to her, I am certain. I felt that way too during the time in-between "the revelation" and "the intensive". (journal about these feelings - I wish I did! - so that you can refer back to how you felt at this time if ever you feel like slipping, or, if ever you are about to write a book to help others thru this valley of the shadow of death!)

 

The intensive brought new understanding and a fresh new start. Not without pain for sure, but with renewed hope.

 

GET THEE TO AN INTENSIVE!

[firewalker]

What the heck were you doing on the computer so late at night?

 

That would be a big time boundary violation. Even posting as an excuse puts you at risk to utilize porn while your little family is all in bed.

 

 

Get real, dude. Stop the excuses.

[631]

Firewalker, I can appreciate your concern over the time of night that I was on the computer. I will make sure that I do not allow myself to be on the computer late at night if Hope is not also up. I do have Covenant Eyes on my computer to help with everything but will make this change. Again, thanks for pointing this out to me.

[dory]

Just heard: Next Intensive date was changed to Nov 4-8 rather than last weekend in OCT. You GOOD with that?

[631]

Dory,

Thanks for letting us know. I checked with the babysitter and these new dates should still work. We appreciate the heads up!

 

631

[631]

Hey everyone, I need help with something that may sound pretty stupid. I have never been a flirt with my wife, always very serious and business like. I really need tips on things I can do to help fix this and meet my wife in regards to this need. How can I change this seriousness inside me that makes my marriage so boring? Any advice here?

[dory]

I love it when Nemo kisses me on the back of the neck while I am preparing dinner. Then he asks what he can do to help.

 

If I am having a bad day/moment, he will take me in his arms and pray for me out loud in that moment.

 

He calls me up and sings to my voice mail.

 

Does this help?

[631]

Yes Dory. Keep 'em coming! You guys recommended the singing thing a while back and I haven't followed through with it. I guess I'm a little embarassed but have to get passed that. It is my wife and she has said she would love it! Hmmm.... so what to sing... Probably not "You are my sunshine"... I was thinking that'd be good but looked up the lyrics and they are not good for this relationship. Gonnna think of something though. Any body else out there have things your husband does, or that you do to/for your wife, in regards to flirting? Things you can say over the phone from work, in person, things one can do that doesn't come across as childish or lame? I really feel dumb asking for help on this but it is very important to my wife and I want to meet this need. Thanks again!

[dory]

But a bag of her favorite chocolate miniatures (or chocolate kisses) and leave them hidden in places that she will likely stumble across them. On each one attach a little post-it note with something about her that you LOVE about her.

 

Some might not surface for 6 months, but at least you know in your heart that one day she'll find it. This is an act of love that offers great practice in "delayed satisfaction".

[Giving Hope]

Jeff leaves me love notes all over the place

 

in the shower

on the mirror

visor of my car (didn't catch that one for a while)

 

as for "you are my sunshine" , if Jeff were to sing that one to me, I would probably freak out...that was my dad's song to me when I was a little girl...so wouldn't be good there....

 

Do the two of you have a "song" together? If not, come up with one...sing that one to her...no one is going to hear you other than your wonderful wife!

 

Blessings

[dory]

no one is going to hear you other than your wonderful wife!

 

Especially in her voice mail - unless, of course, she puts it on SPEAKER PHONE!

 

But rest assured, that IF she does that, its only because you made her SMILE and he wants the kids to smile too!

[firewalker]

Eye contact. Big indicator of desire for emotional connnection. Eye contact coupled with touch: gentle stroking of her arm while you talk, touching her hair while you are staring into her face (if that isn't uncomfortable:some women hate anyone to touch their hair). She needs to be disarmed by your fascination with everything about her and your demonstration of your interest and focus by the way you look at her and the way you touch her.

 

Besides eye contact and touch, you need to begin to playfully speak out your fascination with her. Speak of her figure and those things about her which drive you crazy with desire. Speak of the favorite parts of her face and then kiss on them saying something like: "I love the curve of your nose." or "Your neck is driving me crazy".

 

Flirt with your desire to be close to her. Spontaneously sit right next to her for no reason at all other than nearness. Stand beside (not behind) her while she does dishes, then give her a gentle nudge and tell her thanks for taking such good care of you and the kids.

 

Watch old Cary Grant movies, or Gregory Peck movies to see how old hollywood showed flirting in a time when girls were still taught to be virgins and men were still fascinated by the fairer gender.

 

What you need is not to disband the seriousness of your character, but you actually need to cultivate intimate behavior which focusses on another. You likely associated intimacy with you getting sex. Nope, sex is to be an organic side effect of emotional intimacy. You are too self-focussed and focussed on what you perceive as "your" problems of connecting. Time to focus on your wife, with new eyes to see her beauty, her goodness, her giftedness and for you to respond to what you see with your body language, your words and your touch.

 

Go on dates that are active: bowling, dancing at dance classes, batting cages, putt putt golf, and in between times amidst the activity, pull her close, or quickly kiss her, or spin her around (a dance move, not a pinata party move), or just slide your hand along her bare arm as you pass.

 

Lots of eye contact

Lots of nearness

Lots of gentle touch

Lots of appropriate joking about what a "turn on" she is to you

 

Flirting is a sign of focus and attention on your wife. It shows sexual interest but demands NOTHING. Flirting is powerful, because it is an invitation to come out and play with you, in the lovely, fun, safe garden of your relationship.

 

Flirting is not foreplay. If your wife thinks that everytime you flirt, you expect sex, then she will be turned off and feel manipulated and very hurt. If you have done that in the past, it was because you were selfish and only "gave" so you would "get" something for yourself. Repent from that attitude and make your wife your focus.

 

Flirting shows you like her, admire her and desire to be near her.

 

Hope this is helpful.

[631]

Excellent advice to all! Thank you! I don't have time to say much as I am late for a trip today, but wanted to see what was posted. I appreciate all your tips and look forward to more ideas. As well, I look forward to sharing how things are progressing with my initiating these things with Hope!

[631]

Just completed my reservation deposit for the intensive. I know it is going to be good. I really need help driving things from my head into my heart, and as I hear on the calls, the intensive will really help me in this area. Actually, there are SO many areas I need help driving into my heart I don't know where to start...

[Looney_Tunes]

I am sprinkling this around the forum because I think it's such a good idea:

 

On our call last night, I mentioned keeping a notebook where I keep track of important things that I am learning about my wife, and also to keep track of ideas for blessing her - when I hear her say something that I know will bless her, I will write it down so that I don't forget, and so that I will hold myself accountable for doing these things that I hear.

 

I also mentioned that, in the back of the notebook, I keep track of things that I am learning about myself. I make mistakes, lots of them, during my journey to becoming a Christlike man. My goal is not to repeat them, so I try to write them down so that I can "head off" the same problem if it starts to happen again. The whole idea, for me, is to become PROACTIVE about my own behavior and prevent myself from doing the same hurtful thing to my wife when I have already learned that it hurts her. If I write these things down that I have learned hurt her, then I find that I OWN them more effectively, and I am less likely to repeat them. I can also review them to make sure that they don't slip my mind and creep back into my life...

 

To me, becoming a better husband and the Man that God wants me to be is all about OWNERSHIP - I am willing to own the hurts that I have caused in my wife, and I am willing to learn how not to do them over and over again. Becoming Christlike isn't a "checklist", it's a way of like, and I want to be a DIFFERENT man, not the same man with a different set of behaviors.

[631]

Thanks Looney for the forward. This really hits home with me right now. I have really been struggling this past week meeting some very specific needs of Hope. Perhaps keeping a book such as this will help me become a different man, rather than the same man with a different set of behaviors. I also just realized with Hope's help that I am defending the man I want to be, rather than the man that I really am. Thanks again!