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Dear J&K,

 

 

I thought we were �slipping� when he initially got defensive this morning about a daddy-daughter event that he forgot to sign up for. I thought about writing my feelings to you but decided to write to Nemo instead. I remembered what Kathy said about going back to the stuff taught at your intensive to explain a point. So when I pointed out his defensiveness and how much it hurt and reminded me of the old man, Nemo actually came to the rescue! Yay. Go Nemo. If you are interested in the details of the exchanges, here they are.

 

 

Thanks! and safe travel!

 

 

Dory

 

 

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Kathy (of Kathy and Joel) writes: Write about this on the forum.. it will help wives & husbands�

 

 

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So here goes!

 

 

From: Dory To: Nemo

 

 

I didn't appreciate our exchange this morning and here's why...

 

 

Back when I gave you the �Donuts for Dads� sheet and asked you to care for it since it was a "Dad thing", I didn't think I was asking much. You responded today that you thought it was just a reminder. (Dory interprets: A reminder of what? A reminder that once again Dory took care of it and all you need to do is show up?) Dory didn't take care of it this time.

 

 

Meanwhile we have a daughter who is too shy to say anything about it in a reminding way - probably out of fear of hurting anyone. And she is probably hurting each time it was mentioned in school for lack of assurance that it was handled (by turning it in with money). She gave it to me and I gave it to you. She never asked again about it. Perhaps I should have asked her to give it to you direct? Or should I have just taken care of it and wrote it down on my calendar?

 

 

Regardless of what happened or what didn't happen or what should have happened or what you forgot, the lack of attention to the issue hurt her and me and needed some balm. Instead of an apology (as a balm), the first thing I got was defense/excuses which was the last thing we needed to smooth this whole thing over.

 

 

Please consider the care I give to your physical needs, and please view our need for your care to important "heart matters" just as important.

 

 

--------------------------------

 

 

Nemo wrote:

 

 

Yes Sweetheart, it was my mistake entirely. I was in the old habit of assuming you would take care of everything. I am sorry. I can see how this would hurt both of you. Perhaps it would be better if she just took these things directly to me as you suggested.

 

 

 

Please forgive me.

 

 

 

459, (459 means I L Y from our old �texting� on pager days)

 

Nemo

 

 

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From: dory Wednesday, October 10, 2007 9:19 AM

 

To: Nemo

 

Subject: RE: I appreciated your apology. Thanks This is just a recap.

 

 

I accept your apology, but I am not sure you are clear on what was the most hurtful. The old habit that you speak of (�assuming you would take care of everything�) is actually less problematic than the more painful old habit of instant "defensiveness". That was supposed to leave with the old man. The new man was supposed to offer a heartfelt apology first. This old 'response' of yours is what was most hurtful and least helpful in smoothing over the lesser mistake of 'forgetting' and "assuming'. Please tell me this brings more clarity on the subject.

 

 

Dory

 

 

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Subject: RE: I appreciated your apology. Thanks This is just a recap.

 

Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:22:39 -0400

 

From: Nemo

 

To: Dory

 

 

You have been very clear. In re-reading my response, I can see that it does not encompass your real concern. Yes, baby, I understand that is what really aggravated things this morning. I regret not pausing to welcome the Spirit before I responded so rashly. I am sorry for that. I know how it stirs up old wounds.

 

 

---------------------------------

 

 

Dear Nemo,

 

 

Thank you, Love.

 

 

Dory

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  • 1 month later...
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I have a wonderful Bride who turned 29ish again today and I thank God she gave me another chance. Happy birthday, my lovely, lively, loquacious, Dory. You have helped rescue this sinking soul from certain death and have become the irreplaceable helpmeet I had no idea I needed.

 

God bless you my love, my sultry swimmer, my fabulous fish... okay maybe I'm going overboard here.

 

Happy Birthday Sweetie.

 

Nemo

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Happy birthday Dory and Joel! I had a birthday on the 24th - this is a hoppin' month :lol:

 

Question? Dory, did Nemo get you a gift? Joel do you always give Kathy a gift for her birthday (I told Michael to ask you this when he spoke with you the other day but he said that you had to go and whispered that I already knew the answer to that question)? Okay, so you know where I'm going with this...

 

Michael did give me a gift but not until several days after the fact. Yes, he DID do what I asked him to do for my birthday which was to take me to see "Enchanted" (very sweet, BTW). But no present, no card, nothing special. He said that he thought he was doing the right thing by doing what I wanted, and I told him that a girl shouldn't have to tell her fella that she wants a gift on her birthday...it's an unspoken rule which, he has promised, will never be broken again. :P

 

Annalea (39 and holding)

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Wow. To be the "subject" of a string. WHat a great gift! Happy Birthday Joel, I feel so honored to be sharing the day with you. I don't know of any other person born on that day. Too cool! Thanks for sharing that!

 

To Kay, Beauty, Annalea and Rebecca: "Thanks for noticin"

 

As for Nemo, thanks love, for embracing the things that are important to me. That's really my love language. I think Gary Chapman missed a few. My two biggest love languages are "show effort" by "surprising me". Note: Forgetting (like last year) is not the surprise I am talking about here! LOL! Thanks for showing me that you learned the lesson in THAT unwritten rule.

 

Nemo did a fine job even though there were no gifts. I am not a "gift" person anyway. First he took the day off, then he asked me what i wanted for breakfast. I asked "How good are you at making cinnamon bread?" He dashed out and got two cinnamon rolls from Panera, came home and made me some tea to go with them. After the kids were in school he drove me to a new park path - one that we have not yet walked (3.2 miles) - and we explored that new adventure. Ohio is not that beautiful in November, but we found new ways to appreciate it. God blessed us with sunshine at the very least. Then he took me to the restaurant of my choice for lunch. Then we windo shopped and went to one of the kid's school play together. Then we came home where he had already stocked up on some wood and he made a fire for us to snuggle to until the buses dropped the kids off. Then he ran kids to activities while I cooked supper and then we went to our Ballroom dance lesson. Then of course there was bedtime where he was totally focused on me! In essense his gift was the gift of "time" and a little bit of extra effort towards "adventure", sprinkled with an "attitude of blessing" ME all day long. It was WONDERFUL!

 

Perhaps this post should go into praise reports!?!

 

Thank you, Dear Nemo! You made turning 43 (dare I say) "FUN"? You were truly the best "Birthday Bird in Katroo" a wife could ask for! (Seuss)

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Hi Annalea,

Happy late B-day!

 

I just HAD to share this with you...When Jay and I were first dating, I told him that instead of buying me cards that would be tossed and flowers that would die...just give me your attention. Well, that worked great for 7 years until about that time I wondered why I NEVER got cards or flowers on special days or the occassional "just becuase".

 

Come to find out, I had forgotten what I told him and never "taught" him in later years what to buy me. I retrieved my first words and openly, constantly gave him ideas as to what a girl wants. Now, he's a professional!!! I love it!! Girls, it takes some training but it is worth it once he catches on! Especially if he comes from a family that didn't share gift giving or the preciousness of being one.

 

Try to teach and learn rather than rip and roar!

 

Happier than ever,

Christy Baird

flabeliever

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Indeed, happy belated Birthday Annalea! Sorry I missed that in my earlier post.

 

Try to teach and learn rather than rip and roar!

 

You are so right! We all mumble this over and over because we know its right! But after years of pain that this gentle approach caused, many of us find ourselves HERE writing on this forum! LOL! Its hard to reprogram away from the rip and roar when "gentle teaching" never worked for so many years and instead caused so many deep wounds. But now that we are on the other side, and hubbys are starting to get the picture - its time to return to "gentle"....

 

Easier said than done in this household, but will keep trying! :wink:

 

Thanks for the "gentle" reminder! :)

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WoW! What an AWESOME example! I want to get to the point that I too can express my needs from my marriage manual so clearly! Thank you for sharing this, it encourages me greatly as my Dead Guy and I press on to get the "prize" of Livin' it and lovin' it!

 

In HIS Grip,

CHeRIsh

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  • 1 month later...

Take heart folks, 10 months into this program, even my hubby still blows it. This morning while still in bed, he complained and grumped loudly at the cat who was scratching at the bedroom door. I reminded him that it was just a cat and that his grumping will only serve to irritate me while not affecting the cat's behavior one little bit. Then he says that while he desires me, he NOW feels he can't get excited because of my "admonishment" over the cat. Hmmmm....

 

Its perfectly OK with me if he doesn't get excited because quite frankly, his grumping doesn't exactly "rev" my engine either! Hard to get excited about the toddler sleeping in my bed.

 

So even in this tiny little exchange (which will probably set our Saturday off on a bad foot) I explained to him that this is a perfect example of how he leads and I respond. His life unfolds in the manner that HE starts it off. If he prefers to grump about the cat instead of being sweet and ML first thing in the morning, then go ahead and, "grump about the cat". But you'd better not try self-satisfaction in the meantime or you will have MORE that just a cat to grump about.

 

Grrr....

 

Be a blessing men, and not a drain. Now I need to go print this off and show Nemo.

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Aw, Dory...sorry about the cat and the grumpy husband.

 

I tend to be the "morning grump" in our house. WHen I was real little, my mother had a dear friend who SERIOUSLY had this attitude of "DON'T talk to me until I have had my coffee!"

I never got that.

 

Now, I do. :D

 

I am NOT good in mornings, and my husband wakes up all cheery....I am such a bad morning person that just the fact that he wakes up happy ticks me off!

 

I hope this does NOT set the tone for your day!

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Thanks for the chuckle, Quiver!

 

I know this is minor, but it happens in all our lives: these things slowly and insidiously build, pile up and gain momentum in turning things sour. THese are single, simple, typical events whereby the husband just needs to grow up a little.

 

For ten years I have "just overlooked" his grumpiness and trudgged on in my cheery, happy-go-lucky mode hoping to not let him bring me down. Looking back I realize this was my arrestedness and how I enabled him to not grow up. IF, for many years I could "just overlook" these little Mr. "Grumpy-Gill-isms", then why can't he grow up and "just overlook" the cat? Or, if he can't overlook, then maybe DO something positive to change the cat's behavior, like squirt it with water?

 

I am sorry if its sounds a bit nit-picky. I still do over-look two out of every three "blips" as J&K recommend. As this is probably very minor as compared to what many other wives are going thru presently. In previous years, I overlooked everything until something was bad enough to bring me to "tears". I tip-toed and I pandered just to try and keep Mr Grumpy-Gills happy in our household. (now you can see where that name "Nemo" is a step up!)

 

It chuckles me to read that "the fact that he wakes up happy ticks you off!" I'll bet it didn't USED to be that way - you were probably once a happier camper all the time, right? Send the happy clown off to brew you a fresh cup of coffee. Would that help???

 

AS an update.... Nemo read the printed note and sees the trickled down effect. All is well.

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Thanks for the chuckle, Quiver!

 

It chuckles me to read that "the fact that he wakes up happy ticks you off!" I'll bet it didn't USED to be that way - you were probably once a happier camper all the time, right? Send the happy clown off to brew you a fresh cup of coffee. Would that help???

 

AS an update.... Nemo read the printed note and sees the trickled down effect. All is well.

 

Uh, no, this one is ALL my bad. :?

I am NOT a morning person, never have been. About the only way I could feel remotely happy in the mornings is you know when it is insanely early and your 8 month old is standing in the crib, happily blowing raspberries? THAT makes me want to get up.

Or this one. Same 8 month old, happily saying "da-da-da-da-da-da!"

Okay, so yeah, I thought it "DA DA isn't here! Go back to sleep!"

But then comes that morning when it is "Ma-Ma-MA-Ma!"

THAT will get me out of bed happy.

Other than that. Uh, no. Not happening.

Now, don't get the idea I am a tyrant. Not true. All I ask is that NO ONE say ANYTHING to me until I have had coffee!

Is that so much to ask?

 

My husband does brew coffee. I would love to say and to think that it is out of his deep love for me, and a sincere desire to please his wonderful wife.

Sadly, I think it is more out of fear. SHE'S AWAKE! :shock:

 

(Really, I'm not that bad, am I?)

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Two mornings ago, my beautiful daughter had some extra credit homework she needed help with, she handed it to me, it was all these complex numbers, with lines in between, compare and say which is greater than or less than... Come on now, I haven't had my coffee and you want help with MATH? What is this stuff, rocket science, my brain is NOT working!

Sure enough, she waited, and a cup of coffee made all the difference.

Oh, I see, all the lines and stuff, it's just sixth grade fractions. :oops: It was all clear after a cup of coffee. Fractions are easier after coffee!

 

Okay, I really am that bad. :shock:

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  • 1 month later...

I have had a really lousy day and I am now laughing my head off- thank you from the bottom, top, sides, and inside out heart!! I really needed this "fun" message!! I hope school my children, so I need much jump starting on some mornings; and yes we have home schooled in our PJ's!! Some times with my VERY perky youngest DD, she would show up with her workbook and sit on my bed in the mornign before I was even awake!! YIKES!! Talk about scary, I did not even get out of bed, let alone have anything to drink. She has slowed down in more recent years; she is the one that started school at just turned 3 because she was NOT going to "not" do kindergarten with her brothers. She has now passed by both of her two older brothers, and is more then 2 grades ahead!! Well I guess I did not kill her love of learning or do any other irreversible damage. :D

 

Really thank you for your post.

 

Blessings,

 

Tigger

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Yikes... I spelled "Home Schooling" wrong. I guess that gives a REALLY lousy impression of what kind of teacher that I am. I do love spell check, it is my weakness and one of the reasons I hestitate- at times, to write on the Forum. Oh well, no one is perfect; Christ was and they crusified Him!! Grace covers a whole host of sins, mistakes, and blunders.

 

Blessings,

 

Tigger

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So what ages, number of children at a time and time frame(s) (grades or approximates) did you home school? I have been at it since my first came into my home at almost 18 months, my second came at 1 day old and my third (miss perky morning bird- just like I USED to be as a little girl) came the labors way!!

Both of my boys have some learning difficulties, which are better handled with the one on one contact. I almost fell off my rocker when the school special ed. team said that my boys were better off being educated at home. WOW!!

They take a good bit of my time and a boat load of patience, but it is all worth it when I see the light go on and they "get it". Someday I hope my biggest "boy"( the 42 yr. old) will "get it" (sigh)... someday.

DO you think I should use the same approach with him?? I think maybe that is something that I should ponder a while. Home school the hubby. He, of his own admission, says it takes a TON of bricks to hit him over the head for him to get some things. He has even told me that my "ton" has not been big enough sometimes. I do truly want him to "get it", I am still as much in love with him as I ever have been, well maybe a slight and different kind of love over the last few years.

In our "talking" he has pointed out- in a good/appropriate way, how things have changed over the 13+ years of our marriage. He is correct about how I handle our interactions differently; I think it has alot to do with how things have changed- real or preceived, in his actions and/or opinions of me. I was a very active, do-it yourself kind of girl/young woman; then out of the blue... I was struck down and am now disabled.

 

Since my disability I have gained sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much weight- honestly I am obese, truth and fact, not pity party, just the truth of the matter. My husband did not like when I was "too skinny" in his opinion and he steadfastly says that he loves me the way I am now too; but I hate myself this way. I went from running everyday and working out, as well as swimming, to being totally bed fast; not even able to sit up without blacking out. I have come a long way, but life with this disability has great limitations. I have no idea why I got side tracked on that, maybe it was something I just needed to say. Oh yeah, I was getting to the real or preceived change in his opinion of me.

I worked full time and did anything that I wanted; we were gutting an old house when I became disabled. I could go at it swinging the sledge hammer right along side him; taking out these thick old walls. We were on the East Coast back then where the really old houses had REALLY thick walls, the room dimensions actually change by several inches when you get rid of the old wall structure.

Anyway, once I collapsed the doctors could not figure out what to do with me and, in fact, told my husband to put me in a nursing home there was nothing else they could do for me. So I went from being a vibrant wife and true helpmeet, to being a total burden and leaving him with a half gutted house.

My folks came to help, they lived 400 miles away but they were semi-retired and could come. They had been there for the beginning of the re-model and helped alot then; we have all always gotten along. My husband was able to go back to work, but I know that he worried about me, which was hard on him. The whole time was difficult, but we got through it and I am better then being confined to a bed now.

The facility that I was working for was holding my job, they really wanted me to come back; they were, in fact, paying all of mine and my husbands benefits for over 4 months in the hopes that I would get better and be able to return to work; as well, they were paying a per diem therapist to carry my work load while I was out. I was very good at what I did, in fact I was at the top of my game- so to speak. I made a good living; I made twice what my husband made in salary, plus I had all of mine and his benefits covered by them.

SO when we told them to not keep on waiting for me to come back, I not only lost my benefits, but also lost a great amount of income. We had bought our new "old" house less then 30 days before I collasped, so we were really in a pickle. I am sure my husband felt that burden; I know I sure did!!

 

SO much changed! I am what my husband calls his "rudder". He is NOT self motivated, by his own admission, and I give him direction. His family of origin are worthless in the "do" anything department. They think everyone should just do for them, like they 'deserve' to have things just done for them. SO that being said, they were no supposrt and fairly much an opposit pull; they would say "Why are you working on this, just sit back and relax". I do not know 'who' they thought should get the house done. Anyway he (POOH) and my Dad finished,working around me being bedfast in the midst of them remodeling.

We rented the house out and moved in with his folks, so that my parents could go back to their home; his parents lived near by so my husband could keep his job and we could stay together. My parents would have taken me home with them, but then POOH would have had to drive 400 miles to see me on the weekends. His parent's place was better; and since they never expect much of themselves, they did not do anything much to help us. We lived in his old bedroom and he took care of me when he was home and set up stuff for me while he was gone.

He started to get me therapy too, which was kind of funny as my profession had been to be a therapist my self- but I did not have the means and/or the strength to start my own rehab.

By living with his parents, my church family was closer to us, and could help, at times and were around to check in on me. I tried to keep up my spirits, but I suspect that I was burying a lot of feelings. We eventually bought a small 1 floor house; the other one was 2 stories with the bedrooms and bathroom being on the second floor, not good for someone who can not walk. We moved into our small little house and were finally just "us" again, but with me very limited. I could be out of bed and in a wheel chair now for periods of time, but was very worn out when I was up for any amount of time.

We went on for a while and then we started to want a family. We had always wanted to adopt, so we got into the foster care system and our first two placements were the children GOD had us eventually adopt; I say eventually because it took 8 years and 8 months to finalize the adoptions. Yes that is the truth, I have all the paperwork to prove it, though our boys were with us the whole time without any visits from the birth family and we even moved across country before the adoptions were final. I add all this to explain some of the stresses. We got pregnant with our daughter and I spent so much time in the hospital, when I was not in the hospital I was on bed rest; my parents to the rescue again, as I had two little boys who needed to be taken care of at ages 2 and less then a year. Yes do the math I had three children who were under 3, there is only 34 months between them; they all could have been mine, biologically and I am sure there are people who do have them that close, but it was insane, especially with my disability. We had a good amount of stress at that time, but it seemed like "good" stress at the time!! :D

 

Somewhere along this road I started to feel my husband left me behind. I believe it was more of when we got to the "left"/west coast. He had changed jobs and I was not as much a "part" of the new job. His old job I went with him to work when I had therapy. I would be in therapy for the morning, then I would be in his office the rest of the day. I would lay down and take a nap in his office or sometimes out in the car; when the weather was nicer I would go out on the grounds of the campus and lay on a blanket. His entire staff knew me and watched out for me; if I was outside they would stop for a talk or if I was resting they would just check up on me- and report to him that they saw me and I was fine. He had a lot of freedom at that job. He could take me to and from therapy, take me to the car and come check on me, take me to the garden and come check on me; University settings are really conducive to that kind of freedom.

 

When we moved, his job was so different. Of course by this time I was more mobile and had 3 children, but we were NOT welcome to visit him at his office; we- all of us even the 3 very young children were welcome at his old office. When we went to his old office they would pass the children around and talk with them; we have gone back for one visit to his old office (4 years after we moved away) and they were still the same way. But here we were shut out; his office almost became like a mistress- this is a revelation to me right now. WOW!! I knew I resented things but stop the presses, I have just learned something.

 

So if no one ever reads this, I know I am very long, at least I have made a new discovery about myself and our relationship.

 

It may sound silly, but so much of what he does is so secretive. I can say that he was in charge of running the recent "dirty bomb" scare; that was a simulated nuclear attack on our country and he was in charge of the "nuclear" stuff. I can say that because it is "public" knowledge, but so much other stuff is hush hush. I always feel left out, and I do not have all the knowledge that he does. I can remember all kinds of things he can not-life pertaining stuff, people, places, dates,etc., but he far exceeds me in the "techno" area; and especially stuff to do with his career field- he is a Health Physicist. I can just about figure out how to use this forum; e mail I can handle, but other computer stuff--->I am totally in the MUCK about!!

I would love to understand it, but my wires must be crossed in my brain, because it all seems like (!!@#$%^&*) to me.

I much appreciate you people out there that helped to walk me through setting up my forum stuff. All of this has been to say that I preceive that I have been left behind, in my husband's mind; though he says it is not true. I feel like he views me differently. It HAS made the change in our marriage. Whether or not he is treating me differently seems not to be the "issue", it is that I take offense very easily now. He says that we used to joke around the way he "jokes" with me now, but now I get my feelings hurt, where as I did not used to get my nose out of joint.

 

Am I being super sensitive?? Should I just not listen to any of his "jokes". My point is that jokes are suppose to be funny, when they cease to be funny but hurt someone instead, then they should stop. Boy oh boy have I gone on so long. Maybe this is why he tunes me out. I need to ponder that one for a while, as well.

Well I guess I should get this sent off, before I write an ever living book.

 

Thank you for being here for me. I hope that I hear back from someone, but I understand that maybe it was just too long and no one is really all that interested in my life.

 

Blessings,

 

Tigger

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I hope that I hear back from someone, but I understand that maybe it was just too long and no one is really all that interested in my life.

 

Now, now, is this the defeatest in you talking here? silly me!

 

Is it possible for you to cut and paste the meat and potatoes of the above post and put it into your other string? I would love to comment on it over there!

 

Thanks for posting and giving us a chance to help

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Where should I try to move it to. I am getting better at some stuff, but am not real swift at knowing what it is I am suppose to do. Is there a section on "my journey" I must have missed that. Sorry to be putting things in the wrong spot. I will try to do better, just tell me what to do, I will try. Thank You for your help, and most of all... thank you for even reading and writing a little something back, it really made me feel like I did not bore EVERYone to death with my story..

 

Blessings,

 

Tigger

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Tigger,

 

You have a great string started entitled "I am frustrated".

 

We encourage you to post wherever you want to - to be an encourager, a supporter, an empathizer, whatever it is that you feel inspired to offer.

 

Its just a suggestion that when you post something long and detailed about your self, that you also include it in the string that you start. That string will eventually grow into becoming "your journey" as we watch your new life unfold.

 

Great to have you here!

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