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  • 2 weeks later...

Ya know... I USED to LOVE rollercoasters. Today I really don't have much desire for amusement parks. Why pay the outrageous price :blink: (did I really use that word "outrageous"?) just to beat myself up in a tiny little 'train-like' car? My body just can't take that anymore. Oh, I remember, I do it "for the kids". Yeah, that's it! FOR THE KIDS!

 

Hmmmm... I am beginning to feel the same about marriage: rollercoaster, high price, beat up, and my emotions just aren't as resilient as they used to be either. And, for the kids?

 

Today Nemo felt "convicted" about a detail in his life that he hasn't shared in over a year. *sigh* (I had a sense that working with Marpay and Duart was bringing on some new 'tremors'.)

 

What the Lord reveals he wants to heal, right? Then why am I just feeling beat up again while Nemo gets to just skip away "free" now that he has "come clean"?

 

The actual revelation wasn't actually a "big deal", but then, why did he need to keep so silent about it? Because I might "take it away"? So then, what about the bigger things that might REALLY evoke 'fear' in him? UGh! Where is the man in there? And if I post this and he feels I "tattled", then what motivation does he have to be honest in the future?

 

I am so confused and tired.

 

I have great difficulty in trusting him and in showing respect. I don't WANT TO struggle with that anymore. I WANT to feel like trusting, I want to WANT to be respectful. But I can't. At least NOW I know why. Because I am the mirror.

 

Until he respects himself to do the right thing and to stop being deceptive with me, and UNTIL he trusts ME enough to share his life with me and lay his life down FOR me, then I, as his helpmeet, can't generate respect and trust from nothing.

 

I can't. So in the meantime, until he DECIDES to start listening to that still small voice inside him, and until he decides to stop fighting this one-flesh arrangement, he won't see in me a reflection of trust, respect, and outrageously happy. Until he does this, he will have to be happy with mediocre, cause folks, that's all we have.

 

If there is something hugely wrong with me and my attitude, let me have it!

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I'd love to help, helpee to helper, but I don't know if I can.

 

What I did think of was, maybe it's the mind set behind the confession. Maybe he still feels like he's confessing a no-no to his mother. (I may be way off, of course.)

 

Z has confided various things to me over the years. I kind of liked that, because I wanted to know him. One thing, at least, was yukky. But he wasn't telling me like a little boy hanging his head before his mother. Actually, now I'm thinking about it, it really was more like a husband being open and vulnerable with his wife.

 

I don't know if this has anything to do with you, Dory, but it may help me to be more sociable when I get home.

 

God, help Dory in this moment, I pray. Jesus!

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I have great difficulty in trusting him and in showing respect. I don't WANT TO struggle with that anymore. I WANT to feel like trusting, I want to WANT to be respectful. But I can't. At least NOW I know why. Because I am the mirror.

Yes Dory, the reason you feel like you can’t trust him is because you can’t …yet.

 

You know after your set back a year or so ago and you said you were less volatile I felt like the difference was not because of you but because Nemo was feeding you less to react to. I was too “new” to speak up on that Monday night call but that’s what I was thinking.

 

You have a sensitive antennae. That is a blessing from God. It causes you a lot of pain because you see things other people can’t see (or sense) and therefore support is hard to come by.

 

I had a similar incident with DW yesterday only he didn’t come clean. He does favors for people at work and it ultimately makes everyone’s day longer and then he hides it from me. I stumble upon information like this EVERY week. I count my blessings because it used to be more like EVERY day and the issues were bigger but regardless it still opens the door for the enemy every time. There is no wonder there is strife in our household.

 

I told DW I need him to call and tell me EVERY time he makes an exception to something we have agreed upon. Otherwise he is letting the enemy in. I have had this same conversation with him hundreds of times but this time he seemed to get it a little bit more. I knew it the very second we had the conversation and today he has confirmed that.

 

I’m sure we’ll have this conversation some more but I trust him a little bit more today because he got it, at least for that moment. If you’re not trusting Nemo it’s because you can feel it. He might have confessed something but did he really get it? I’ll bet not if you’re feeling uneasy. Follow your instincts.

 

C2

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you are right, Dory, a rollercoaster is no fun in marriage...

 

hey Nemo, what happened to:

what you Posted Yesterday, 01:50 PM

Hi Duart,

 

This is just a reminder of what we spoke of on last nights call. When she 'vents' or 'shares her heart' or 'yells at you'... (insert any other way of describing how her hurt comes out)... and you are trying to listen and validate... it very important to remember that you keep doing so until she has had enough. We guys don't get to decide when she has been validated.

 

Just as we guys have to endure physical exhaustion to win in sports, mental exhaustion to finish the job, we also need to learn how to endure emotionally to maintain our marriage. That is one area of maturity in which 21st century men fall desperately short. So it's not like we need to become and emotional superman, it's just that we need to learn how to bring our emotional maturity up to par with the other aspects of our lives.

 

From an simplistic viewpoint most of our marriages might look like this:

 

Two kids are playing a game. Child A accidentally hurts the child B. Child B starts crying and says 'You hurt me!' Child A says 'No I dinn't. You should have caught the ball with your hands not your face.' And the argument ensues. Ultimately the children part on bad terms.

With Christian teachings in those same children it continues like this:

 

Child A says 'OH! I'm sorry, I bet that hurt. I'll bet a popsicle would make that booboo feel better. Lets get some!"

 

We've probably all seen similar situation play out in our children. The difference between the two is what Child A is focused on. If he is focused on himself, the consequences are almost always much more serious in the long run. Sure he isn't threatened with the blame for an injury in the short term but he has lost a friend. In the second case, because he is so concerned about his friend's pain, he doesn't even worry about blame and there is no long term consequence.

 

String about 1,000 of the first sequence together, tie the two kids together with an unbreakable bond and you have our marriages. We just see the other partner as the one at fault because they can't seem to catch the ball that we threw to hard in the first place. We've always done it that way so that must be normal right?

 

No. Not right.

 

The ball is everything we share in life: troubles, triumphs, bounty, scarcity...

The bond is a gift given to both by God. If we imitate him in our actions we bring each other joy and bring joy to God within the bounds of that bond.

 

As men, we play hard. We throw the ball hard because that's the way to win with other men with whom there is no bond. But your bride is not one of them. She is right next to you. When she gives you the ball, give it back gently... with love.

 

Dory needs you to do everything it takes to apologize thoroughly and repentantly until SHE feels it, not just because you feel good about airing it -- right now, she has little peace because you keep violating the trust

 

What the Lord reveals he wants to heal, right? Then why am I just feeling beat up again while Nemo gets to just skip away "free" now that he has "come clean"?

bring her some healing, Nemo -- she's worth it!

 

Dory, you are doing wonderfully as his helpmeet! praying for you -- rollercoaster marriage is no fun at all

 

prayerfully,

June of

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I hesitate to say this (why is that?), but "things" feel like they are going from bad to worse.

 

He wants to talk, yet when we do, he wants me to see things his way. The "talk" brings me no healing, no relief whatsoever.

 

Things haven't felt right and easy for along time now (since Christmas) and I have kept telling him that I feel that he is holding something back. He insists that he doesn't know what I am talking about. So yesterday when some truth finally comes out and it hurts me to hear that he still hides stuff to self-protect, does he think that I can "get over it" in a jiffy? Rarely is it the first blow that takes a man down in the ring. I have gotten back up after MANY MANY blows. In this analogy, a blow is a "lie". Has the ref counted to 10 yet?

 

I can see where some women who choose to walk away will NOT be turned back. It would seem a HUGE GIFT to them to be "released" of the addiction (addiction = Gen 3:16 desire for a happy marriage) that keeps pulling them back to a carnal man and an emotionally-shredding environment.

 

A few weeks back he says, "Baby, I'm here and I am not going anywhere." Great! So he's addressing my fears and wounds of abandonment. But now out come the reality that he still lies to self-protect. And when I point this out, life around here gets pretty tense becasue he gets very full of resentment.

 

I don't know what its gonna take for him to surrender that last little bit of himself. Right now, he is NO WHERES NEAR it and chock FULL of self-absorbed resentment. By reading this, it will probably push him FURTHER into self-absorption. What's it gonna take? Another FULL FLEDGED BLOW-out before he sets himself right again?

 

I am a nervous wreck that feels at peace only when he is (a) outwardly loving me, or ('b') when he is gone! I don't want thim around when he is in THAT resentment place. And if he is going to go to "THAT place" as an excuse IN ORDER TO GET SOME FREE TIME AWAY, then he can STAY AWAY. I need a man who can self-correct and show love IN THE MOMENT, not three days from now. This is ridiculous. The man reveals his boy-nature and is resentful that I didn't respond with accolades because he "came clean"?

 

This morning, when I called him out on his resentful behavior, he response was "Well, do you want honesty or not?"

 

me: "Not when you wear it on your sleeve and tear me up inside in doing so."

 

him: "You're supposed to let me work through my feelings." :blink:

 

ON the way out he says, "You need to answer the phone every time I call you so that I can tell you what I am about to do something that you need to know."

 

Pendulum swing.

 

Was this to hurt me or control me? To me it was hardly an "I want to bless you" statement, but rather, more of a "You better answer your phone so that I can bug the hell out of you for making me do this" statement.

 

So long as he feels this resentment we go nowhere and spin wheels.

 

Meanwhile, I feel like I git to choose between my two woundings from him: "abandonment" or "lies".

If I stay and sooth the abandonment issue, then I git to deal with the self-preservation lies.

But if I choose to deal with being lied to in order that I might never be lied to again (i.e. "leave"), I get to face my abandonment stuff.

Oh joy!

 

Hmmmm....

 

"Who will love me for me?" And never lie to me in the meantime? Oh yeah, that Jesus guy.

 

Wish my husband might one day grow up to be just like Him.

 

At this point what should I do?

 

ps - Well he just called, and wasn't in an argumentative state. ....sigh... here we go again.

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ON the way out he says, "You need to answer the phone every time I call you so that I can tell you what I am about to do something that you need to know."

 

Was this to hurt me or control me? To me it was hardly an "I want to bless you" statement, but rather, more of a "You better answer your phone so that I can bug the hell out of you for making me do this" statement.

 

My take is this was to blame YOU. It gives him permission to “forget” to tell you something if you don’t answer the phone immediately. Does he have a pencil and paper in case that happens?

 

Nemo, a loving response where you take responsibility for doing the right thing would have been, “Honey, I will call you immediately if anything comes up I need to tell you and if I can’t get through to you I will jot down a note to myself and stick it in my pocket so I will remember to tell you later. This will not happen again. I will see to it.” Now that’s the man!

 

I would deal with the lies first. My big issue is rejection. Most of the time when I bring up an issue with DW I feel rejected. It might be subtle but that resentment feels like rejection to me. But living with the lies makes me crazy so I deal with the lies and take the punishment of rejection. I feel like I live in a pool of rejection most of time.

 

By the way, you two were a big help to us Monday night. I will post about it on our thread. Nemo is going to pull out of this Dory because all of us need you guys to stay good.

 

C2

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I would deal with the lies first. My big issue is rejection. Most of the time when I bring up an issue with DW I feel rejected. It might be subtle but that resentment feels like rejection to me. But living with the lies makes me crazy so I deal with the lies and take the punishment of rejection. I feel like I live in a pool of rejection most of time.

 

HOW DO YOU DO IT! Is DW happy that you live in a pool of rejection? Does it help him feel powerful? Whatever happened to "Happy wife, Happy life?"

 

Unhappy wife will eventually find Happy Life elsewhere!

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HOW DO YOU DO IT! Is DW happy that you live in a pool of rejection? Does it help him feel powerful? Whatever happened to "Happy wife, Happy life?"

 

I don’t think DW is yet at a place where he feels my pain. He chooses to block out the pool of rejection I live in most of the time. It might enter his brain for a minute and then it’s gone.

 

He does enough things right that I just deal with it for now. He is making progress. He is taking the right actions. He is willing to get on the phone calls.

 

Tuesday we did great all day long. He looked at me and made eye contact when we exchanged information ALL DAY LONG at work. It felt great. Then at the end of the day when we finally had a minute to talk about personal things I told him something sensitive about my son and he literally made a very loud yawning sound (over the phone). I just paused and let about a minute of silence go by to see if he was going to say anything.

 

He didn’t. Rejection. That’s how it hit me. He’s so bored he doesn’t care about something really important to me. He would never be so openly rude to another person but toward me, it comes naturally. I went to sleep feeling rejected.

 

But he is showing effort and the next day we were able to collaborate on some ideas for work. We actually had a grown up give and take exchange of ideas without him getting the usual attitude.

 

Sometimes he gets Happy Wife Happy Life. Sometimes the self-focus creeps back in and we have to get some help from you guys and then he gets refocused again.

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This is a good conversation that I'm listening in on.

Well THAT'S good! Me thinks that our beloved, mature, and strong C2 should run the Monday night calls so that WE could listen in too!

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Dory,

 

i am so sorry I have not been a better friend to you... You have been here a long long time, and I totally understand how frustrating these passive men are. I wish I could offer you some 'it'll get betters' and 'keep your chin ups'..

 

But i can say YOU too, are doing a fabulous job, considering all :)

 

I can't give you advice, unfortunately, I am not the person to be giving that at this point. I can say PRAY like crazy before you say one word to him, and DO NOT WAVER in your strength to stand for what's right-- in your life, from him, for him. for the kids...

 

This really is a hard place-- as they say, there are decisions to be made here. Either he's going to do it or he's not. and if he's not, then YOU have to make up your mind when you are done with dancing the dance. Your feet are only going to last so long. The dance cannot go on forever.

 

and those seeds of resentment, abandonment, lies, etc... they will continue to kill you from the inside out. You have to choose to LIVE. For yourself and for your kids.

 

I really hope Nemo decides once and for all to make this his LIFE, your LIFE, so that you can be that WONDERFUL story.. that we all want to hear. You are definitely worth it, all the way.

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Choosing Life,

 

Your words, as well as many other fine ladies who took the time to come read, are life giving. THank you.

 

I can't give you advice, unfortunately, I am not the person to be giving that at this point.

Not so! You have been here longer than I.

 

Interesting choice of words you use to convey your message.... "dance".

 

Love that YOU remind me to PRAY first. All my sisters here are invaluable to me as vessels of God's love.

 

Thank you.

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I hesitate to say this (why is that?), but "things" feel like they are going from bad to worse.

 

He wants to talk, yet when we do, he wants me to see things his way. The "talk" brings me no healing, no relief whatsoever.

 

I want to be the means by which you are healed. To do so, we have to be able to talk. If we stop talking there is no healing. You need that and deserve it. I need to figure out how. And so we must keep talking, even if I blow it sometimes.

 

I am a nervous wreck that feels at peace only when he is (a) outwardly loving me, or ('b') when he is gone! I don't want thim around when he is in THAT resentment place. And if he is going to go to "THAT place" as an excuse IN ORDER TO GET SOME FREE TIME AWAY, then he can STAY AWAY. I need a man who can self-correct and show love IN THE MOMENT, not three days from now. This is ridiculous. The man reveals his boy-nature and is resentful that I didn't respond with accolades because he "came clean"?

 

This morning, when I called him out on his resentful behavior, he response was "Well, do you want honesty or not?"

 

me: "Not when you wear it on your sleeve and tear me up inside in doing so."

 

I understand. There is no 'try'. There is only 'do'. That is my goal and what God and you hope for. This time I failed. I know what to do when I fail: just get up and keep trying and keep praying. But what do I say when I fail?

 

him: "You're supposed to let me work through my feelings."

 

A wretched anwer on my part.

 

ON the way out he says, "You need to answer the phone every time I call you so that I can tell you what I am about to do something that you need to know."

 

Pendulum swing.

 

Was this to hurt me or control me? To me it was hardly an "I want to bless you" statement, but rather, more of a "You better answer your phone so that I can bug the hell out of you for making me do this" statement.

 

I asked that you please answer the phone because I cannot begin to heal you If we cannot talk. If talk makes no difference and action is the only thing that will make a difference then I need to be able to ask you before I do something you might have thoughts on.

 

Meanwhile, I feel like I git to choose between my two woundings from him: "abandonment" or "lies".

If I stay and sooth the abandonment issue, then I git to deal with the self-preservation lies.

But if I choose to deal with being lied to in order that I might never be lied to again (i.e. "leave"), I get to face my abandonment stuff.

Oh joy!

 

Your dream of a man with integrity is holy and good. I want to be that man. Thank you for all the chances you've given me. I have failed to this point. God help me to succeed now.

 

A few weeks back he says, "Baby, I'm here and I am not going anywhere." Great! So he's addressing my fears and wounds of abandonment. But now out come the reality that he still lies to self-protect. And when I point this out, life around here gets pretty tense becasue he gets very full of resentment.

 

I don't know what its gonna take for him to surrender that last little bit of himself. Right now, he is NO WHERES NEAR it and chock FULL of self-absorbed resentment. By reading this, it will probably push him FURTHER into self-absorption. What's it gonna take? Another FULL FLEDGED BLOW-out before he sets himself right again?

 

There will be no full fledged blow-out. Integrity is what you need. It is what God wants. I will not stop trying to smother resentment and overcome selfish desires in favor of honesty.

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To do so, we have to be able to talk. If we stop talking there is no healing.

 

Nemo, You are missing something here! You MUST give her a SAFE PLACE (Let me repeat this) You MUST give her a SAFE PLACE TO talk! Maybe, a little louder would help!

 

You MUST GIVE HER A SAFE PLACE TO TALK!!

 

You may not like my advice that I gave her this morning - It was to SHUT DOWN, when he doesn't give you a safe place. To not engage in any discussions with him, when he has that resentful attitude. To put your hand up and say, "Talk to the hand"!! Okay, I didn't say that to her, but I'm thinking of it, now! Arguing gets NO WHERE!! All it does is feed you with more power and control!

 

Nemo, WHEN you hurt your bride, your feelings do NOT matter.... They need to be given over to God. You need to bring on the healing, by applying the L.O.V.E.R. apology. Come on, you KNOW this stuff! Where does YOUR feelings come in, when applying the lover apology??

 

YES, you should be at the place where your feelings do matter. And, when things are going great, and you are the Source of Life, of course, she will respond warmly to you, and yes, your feelings do matter. But, when you hurt her, and feed her death, your voice, your feelings, your thoughts, MUST be given to GOD and not your bride! Because all this does is make her sink further into despair?

 

Do you really think that when Joel blows it, or hurts Kathy, that Joel starts dishing out HIS feelings to her?? NO, he shuts up, listens, apologizes and loves on Kathy until she is feeling better!

 

This is what it means to die to yourself for your bride?

 

You are holding onto your wanting and needing your voice to matter! IF you want it to matter, than start earning her trust! Hiding truth isn't going to get her to trust you!

 

Yes, you came clean, but did you really think that you wouldn't have to apply healing to the hurt you caused from your deception??

 

(deep sigh) The only other thing I am going to say to you is this - The next time you feel like "talking" when you are in that resentful place, make the choice to not talk, and hand her over a airplane ticket to Chicago, and I'll love on her!

 

btw..... your post sounds like you are frustrated! This isn't THAT hard!!! Sorry if this is harsh, but I don't like seeing my friend hurting. When she hurts, I get angry! :angry: '

 

Okay, here's the sandwich part - We love you, Nemo! Now, let's get swimming!

 

Kay

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Guest Mrs.Clean

Dory,

 

I don't know much about what is going on here, except what I just quickly skimmed...hey, it's nap thirty in my house.

 

One thing I want to say is that Nemo telling you that you MUST answer the phone every time he calls (after you obviously required him to update you consistently after his confession) is him letting you know that IF you are going to demand accountability from him, there is going to be a price to pay for you.

 

That is not okay. It is childish and hurtful and NOT christlike at all.

 

Nemo, this reminds me of something only SNOOKSTER would do.

 

Nemo, if Dory doesn't answer (her perrogative), leave a voice mail and also send her a text. That is enough. And also a reminder, you should be answering the phone ALWAYS when she calls. If you can't "hear" it, then you need to be checking it every 7-10 minutes when you are away from your wife. This is NOT too much to ask. I do it all of the time when I am away from my children and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. It is just a side effect of loving someone more than you love yourself.

 

Now, go home, hug your wife (if she'll let you) and tell her that she doesn't have to choose, abandonment or lies. Tell her that she can have a life FREE of both. Thank her for pointing all of this out so that you can finally counquer this mess and put it behind both of you and bring her some much needed healing. And apologize for your bad attitude as well.

 

There you have it. Advice from a not-so-senior helper.

 

Take Care,

julie

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Advice from a not-so-senior helper.

You must be referring to "age" here. You are one the THE BEST! Thanks for pouring into us.

 

And Kay, that goes for you too - senioritis and all! LOL! Love you! This senior doesn't need her trifocals to read that!

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Guest Mrs.Clean

I meant "senior" because I'm a baby on the path to this OHM...but, I can say, I'm having a happy week.

 

I hate the cycles though. At least we lady helpers seem to be rotating when our marriages are having those challenging cycles!

 

Is Nemo and his phone accountability (answering and also calling while away to report changes in plans, etc) part of this problem? I went and read his post, and got that maybe it isn't an issue any longer...so now I feel a little flustered that I put my YOUNG foot in my mouth.

 

Disregard me if I have. I'm just going to munch out on my own toes...

 

Regardless, Nemo...you've got to listen to our Fishy friend. Give her what she needs. SECURITY. LOVE. HONESTY. FISH FOOD.

 

:rotfl:

 

And seriously...isn't it Thursday? Sounds like I'll be settling in for a lengthy helpers call this evening. THAT would be my suggestion. I've gotten my BEST help when I got Damon on there and had the best of the best all on one phone line speaking the truth to him. Either that, or he's just being good so he doesn't have to do it again! Who knows!

 

Kidding.

 

Take Care,

Julie

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Nemo, I think it shows your sincerity that when Dory would not communicate by phone (and with good reason) you posted to her here.

 

I like your ending with reassurance:

 

There will be no full fledged blow-out. Integrity is what you need. It is what God wants. I will not stop trying to smother resentment and overcome selfish desires in favor of honesty.

 

The only thing I would change there is the word “trying”. Maybe say, I will not stop until I HAVE smothered resentment and overcome selfish desires in favor of honesty. That one word change sounds more sincere and confident, like I WILL DO THIS!

 

Quote from Dory:

him: "You're supposed to let me work through my feelings."

 

Quote from Nemo - A wretched anwer on my part.

 

True that.

 

Excellent point by Kay about the safe place to talk.

 

You were persistent in a good way when she wouldn’t talk on the phone to come to the forum.

 

I’m glad you didn’t wait 3 days. I was just getting ready to post to Dory:

 

Three days seems like an eternity Dory unless you sense he is really using this time to reflect and self-correct. My thought is he should still be going through the actions of comforting you and being there for you in the moment.

 

I was getting ready to post when you posted:

 

Is he really spending the three days trying to get help, trying to see it from your viewpoint, and trying to be a good husband? Or is he using it as time to, as you say, get the distance he wants and focus on himself?

 

Looks like #1! Good, now where’s the comfort?

 

 

In response to Dory’s earlier post:

 

 

This morning, when I called him out on his resentful behavior, he response was "Well, do you want honesty or not?"

 

me: "Not when you wear it on your sleeve and tear me up inside in doing so."

 

him: "You're supposed to let me work through my feelings."

 

I think this is called garbage dumping Nemo. You revealed something you should not have hidden from Dory. Instead of preparing yourself to comfort her and be there for her and mend your ways, you didn’t get the response you wanted so you focused on your own feelings. Seriously? (Isn't that someone's private code word?) :P

 

I think more apologies are in order. And roses - $9.99 – Publix. ::love

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