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She moves toward you. You move away.

and, I'm guessing that when you are in "that mood", when you aren't escaping her, you are throwing more hurt, at her. How is this laying down your life for your bride? How will this bring healing to Dory?


It all comes back to that choice again. The choice to put Dory above yourself. The choice that says, "Her feelings are more important than mine" The choice that, "I love my wife so much, that I want to be there for in every way, possible." The choice that says, "I don't care about being right, I only care that Dory feels loved and cared for" The choice that says, I don't want my wife to hurt anymore, because she's hurt enough by my treating her badly all these years"


The choice that says, "Enough is Enough, from this day forward, I am going to rock her world with tenderness and caring, with compassion and sweetness, because my bride means the World to me"


Think of this, Nemo - How do you feel if someone else hurts Dory? Are you angry at that person? Don't you want to tell her to stay away from the person that has hurt her? So, doesn't it stand to reason, that when you hurt her, she wants to get as far away from you, too? Or, she stays and becomes the emotional punching bag, again and again.


When does she finally get the healing she so well deserves? Or, is it that you like your life better, like this?


Praying for you, both, today!


Edited by Kay
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See, the thing is, no one else would describe him as abusive. He does not "punch" me perse - even emotionally - unless I punch first. And I don't punch until I get so frustrated with his passiveness, undependability, lack of care, insensitivity towards kids, etc. (punch = verbal punch)


"I don't care about being right, I only care that Dory feels loved and cared for" The choice that says, I don't want my wife to hurt anymore, because she's hurt enough by my treating her badly all these years"


I don't really feel loved and cared for, but I don't think that Nemo really believes I NEED this. I think he married me because at the time, I was so independent he figured he wouldn't need to take care of me - in fact, maybe even I would take care of HIM! Granted, he DOES bring him the paycheck (even though at one time he wanted ME to go back to work while HE stayed home with the kids) , but if push came to shove, he knew there'd be no problem with my earning capability.


My temperament is largely one of self-reliance - EXCEPT emotionally, and EXCEPT sexually.


One he likes, the other he doesn't.


I don't wish to quit being self-reliant in many ways, but I do wish he could catch up in that department (self-reliance) and also show undying care for my heart.


Oftentimes, his responses (self-pity, or defensiveness, or resentment) make me feel like I am being too picky. He succeeds in getting me to back off.


Nemo don't you want to grow into something better than a passive man? Don't you WANT my help?


A man's passivity kills a woman's love for her husband because it kills her respect for him. You can't build a marriage on the kind of pitying or agape love a mother has for her son. When he acts up she wants to take him to the orphanage. A wife needs a man whom she can respect. A respectful man is one she can look up to and love in a wifely way because she can relax into that love and surrender to it knowing that her heart is in good and capable hands.

Edited by nemo
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You sent me a very good post from Gary Smalley today. I said something like a man is a Godly and respected husband when he is gentle, dependable, caring, responsible, sensitive, fair, etc. I don't remember the rest of the adjectives but they made me feel lacking. I want to be that man whom people, especially one person, sees as someone who deserves respect. Not because I am the VP of sales in a fortune 500 company or a renowned statesman, but because my character is rock-solid and built on faith.


All those characteristics describe how one relates to others. She can help me with the positive characteristics and does so with admirable constancy. But I cant exhibit any of them if I am on my heels. But that is my work alone... getting off my heels and leaning forward into my bride. The winds of her emotion can knock me over if I am in that reeling place and have been for the past 3 weeks or so. But if I am leaning into her heart the imagined barrage of blame and accusation does not hinder me in becoming that man of character.


I have wasted so much time going backwards. Dory, thank you for hanging on so long with such diminishing hope. Lord please forgive me and give my Bride the strength to continue being the excellent help-meet she is. Give me the strength and will to hang on to what I learned and make it my character.


Thank you Kay and C2 for 'having her back'. You are great friends to my Love.

Edited by nemo
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Thank you for posting, Nemo.


I appreciate that direction you wish to lean into and noticed the change starting last night.


How long will it last? Who knows. . .


But the thing I'd like to point out here - IF YOU WOULD ALLOW ME TO - is the fact that you won't RECEIVE anything transformational FROM ME.


This is what I mean by when I say, "You won't believe ME." YOU won't LISTEN to MY HEART (unless its trumpeted from the lips of some Man like Gary Smalley, or Joel Davisson, or Joshua, etc). You might listen well enough to do the L.O.V.E.R. with a good face and sometimes with a humble enough attitude to make it believable.


WHEN are you gonna really receive it FROM ME!


Nemo, Its MY heart that is affected by your attitude, not theirs. They could care less. Yet my life and emotional well-being hangs in the balance.


Perhaps the REASON I am on the forum so much, perhaps the REASON I have so many dang posts is because it is here that I feel valued. Here, I feel like my voice actually MEANS something to someone somewhere.


Yes, I married a man just like my father, in this regard: you have little regard for MY thoughts, MY feeling, and MY opinions.


Instead of taking them at face value, you won't receive them until (a) I am having a major meldown, or ('b') life for you is miserable until you do, or © another MAN comes alongside and echoes what I am saying.


In Nemo's mind, Dory is too damn picky, UNLESS another MAN comes alongs and says, "no she's not. She has a right to feel that way. Every woman does - whether they voice it or not."


You won't take me at my word unless I do the painful thing and say something mean and hurtful like: "Fine go find yourself a good woman who will accept cold, callous, insensitive, undependable, passive, callous and uncaring." Do you think I LIKE saying stuff like this?? Yet what else am I left with?


NO I DON'T LIKE saying stuff like this! No I don't like saying stuff like "Go sleep on the couch" or "no we can't make love tonight." I LIKE to ML, but now I must punish both of us because YOU won't listen, and my heart is breaking, and I am dong what I am called to do by God as a helpmeet to a very passively resistant man. I would MUCH prefer that you would instead use MY HEART as your barometer and not some OTHER MAN'S "certification" or "confirmation" of what I am saying so that we can move forward into OHM land.


After all what I saying is NO DIFFERENT than what God says in his Word for Christlikeness. And until you accept it, you seem to have not a care in the world for how my heart might be breaking in the interim.


As I said, thank you for posting and thank you for last night's new start. I have so much pain built up inside me for all the times that I let 2 out of 3 slide because I just wasn't strong enough, nor healed enough, to deal with your painful, insidiously passive, rejection of whatever I might say.


I need you to LISTEN TO MY heart and NOT make me wait until Gary Smalley comes along.


I am the one you GET to live with! And I am a wonderful person to live with when you treat me the way GOD wants you to - which is the way MY HEART NEEDS you to.


Houston, do we have contact here?

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Nemo, I’m glad to hear you’re coming back around and Dory senses the change in you.


However, what just happened is you two were doing great. Then she had an emotional issue and needed strength from you. You treated her poorly, not listening, not understanding, etc.


You created a distance which was more comfortable for you than the closeness. Then she HAD to make the distance uncomfortable for you. Otherwise you would stay there. This cost her excruciating pain.


This is Jekyll and Hyde. Now she is wondering, how long will it last? Why won’t he listen to me?


This is our pattern too. Let me tell you it is wearing for the wife.


I have hope from the intensive that we are going to break this pattern. We flip into this pattern every week so we will know shortly if it is working. It is too soon to tell right now but if you want to know what DW is doing, just ask.


According to the intensive, there is only ONE way to break this.



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Questions for Nemo..................


Why did God put the two of you, together? Why was Nova chosen to be your wife? After all, it was all in God's plan for the two of you to be married, right? God makes NO mistakes!! His plan is always the best one! So, why do you think this is?



I think it is a huge problem when a wife has to go to a girlfriend, in order to be validated. Why does she do this? Why does she lash out at you?


Why haven't the two of you reached the OHM yet, after all this time?


All Questions to ask yourself, and then share with Dory. The bible clearly states, "Husbands, lay down your life for your wife"


Nemo, think about this.............. Jesus Christ, himself, is inside of Dory. When you hurt her, what happens to her insides? What is going on in her spirit? And, what about Jesus who lives inside of her?


Perhaps, if you think of Jesus, as he lives inside of your bride, it will help you to bring her the emotional strength, that comes from Jesus, who lives within you. YOU, Nemo, have the power, through Jesus Christ, to be that source of strength, but you have to first seek the Holy Spirit, who lives inside of you.


So, the next time, you get resentful, remember that Jesus Christ is knocking on your door, right at that moment, saying, "Hey, I'm here. Remember me?" Seek and you shall find! And, then, when you receive it, give it to Dory, as God instructs you, through his word.


Hope this helps,


Edited by Kay
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You are right, In Nemo's mind, Dory is too damn picky. Sadly, this is a battle I fight everyday. It reaches my waking mind as resentment. It is something long overdue for spirtual surgury.


In the early time of my faith in 07 and 08, I was able to focus the Holy Spirit's power on my porn, gaming, fantasy sports and other addictions and melt them like candles under a magnifying glass. I can see that though these were worthy targets, they were really symptoms of the real problem of bad character. You are showing me that selfishness and pride are the infections that allowed those idols to fester in our life together. And like a fool, I reject your insight too often.


I think this is the underlying message behind all of your venting. That, at my core, I don't care enough about you and too much about myself. This is the message I don't want to hear because, at my core, I feel demeaned and devalued by it. So I reject it on the same sub-consciousness level that I understand it... with passive resistance.


All the while my good intentions and faith kind of float on the surface of my consciousness. They let me think I'm okay and prevent me from seeing the crud underneath. So when I finally do hear you enough to push away the pretty stuff on top, I see the stuff underneath that hurts you. I recoil in enough distaste that I can finally empathize with your pain for a little while.


My reliance on the Holy Spirit has been rather surfacy itself. You have been stirring up the waters of my character to show me what's underneath. THen I foolishly pray that He helps to calm the waters and restore the shiny surface. In truth, you have been showing me what I really need to pray for: that the the Spirit would dive deep with me and clean up the muck underneath. That he would affirm that he does cherish me but I am not the only person in the world and that I still need extinguish the pride that slowly poisons myself and those I love.



Yes Dory, You are a wonderful person to live with when I live with you in the heart God wants for me.

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I just wanted to describe a vision my mom got of the "old man."


Picture an old style sardine can with the turn key. It's shiny and new and looks fine. But when you turn that key and the top peels back it is filled with maggots. There is nothing that can be done to "fix" up that sardine can. You cannot simply pull out the maggots one at a time and then say "there, all better." you can close that top back up and try to hide what's inside, but that doesn't make it any better because anyone who has a glimpse of those maggots knows the can is no good. The only thing to be done with that can of sardines is to throw it out and use a new can.


In the same way we cannot fix up our old man. "There is nothing good in me." the old man is unreachable by Christ, that is why he is put to death and we are given a new man resurrected by the Christ life. All you have to do to walk in your new life is choose it, in every single circumstance of every single day. You hold the two sardine cans in your hand and while both might look ok on the outside, using the maggot filled can will only bring sickness and death (hope deferred) while the other can brings energy, life and nourishment. Choose wisely.




Ps I hope i didn't ruin sardines for you if you like them...I don't so no big loss here haha

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Thank you Nemo for taking the time to reply - at my insistence. And because its at my insistence, from that standpoint, it still feels like I am trying to squeeze 'blood out of a rock', 'truth out out a little boy who only wants to please'. That last analogy you should be able to relate to first hand. (... as our son is a chip off the ol' nemo).


So when I finally do hear you enough to push away the pretty stuff on top, I see the stuff underneath that hurts you. I recoil in enough distaste that I can finally empathize with your pain for a little while.


kinda feels like too little, too late. Although very eloquently spoken, it still feels like crumbs. I do appreciate that you are digging a little more.


Granted, the last 5 days have been relatively good with a few hiccups here and there. I can live with hiccups - especially in light of how well you have handled those hiccups. I need the last 5 days to be more of a 'forever' deal rather than a '5 days this month' deal.


I am probably sounding picky again to you. Cynicism and cautiuousness have sadly crept into my spirit. Loving you with wild abandon left me long ago. I would welcome its return. As a responder, I supposed I must wait and "RESPOND" to wild abandon love when it is forthcoming from you for more than a few days. Keep it coming.


The words "finally" and "enough" would satisfy and affect a change in me when they relate to "wild abandoned love" and "for a longer while".


Thank you for the changes you have made since my last post.


Please hold onto what you are doing right now. It is good.

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Sweetheart, I thank you for your effort in squeezing this 'rock'. There is blood and life to give and I want to give it... except when I don't... when you are venting and I am resenting. And that happens because I refuse to bend to the truth that you DO speak God's will for me. But the 'squeezing' is for my growth and your health. You shouldn't even have to squeeze.


No one in this world knows me like you do. It is foolish selfishness for me to presume my mate might not know what harm I cause from my arrested inner me. You are the target of that abuse. And I spit it out at the worst possible time... when you are trying to help me grow out of it.


So again, I thank you for your efforts to help me grow. I know that it can hurt you deeply when I respond poorly, and that makes it harder for you. You are so worth whatever struggles I have yet to go through to be the man you deserve... The man who blesses you every minute of your day.

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I hope that saying this doesn't CHANGE anything. But I just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your efforts of the past 18 days! ::clap


Eighteen! There, I said it!


Let's go for 36!


Love you! :wub:

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18 days of what? :wub:


For a second there I thought you were implying 18 days in a row of “rewards”. :rotfl:


I never should read these things late at night after I’ve taken my Ambien. :wink:


:oops: C2

Edited by C2
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Mary Jane posted this today


Well, I boarded a plane to leave the USA on July 4th and didn't get back home until today (the 5th). There was a LONG flight delay in Minnesota, which meant I didn't get to my North Dakota destination until about 9 PM. Then it was too late to get to our little isolated border crossing. It closes, daily, at 9:30 PM. :)


So, Z and I spent the night at a nice motel down there! ;) We did a little sightseeing before crossing the border, today, too.


I've spent too much time reading the forums tonight before posting this, so will do a real update later. Anyhow, the trip and the reunion with Z was ALL GOOD!


Here's a list of the forum people I saw:


Eeyore and Her Density -- and children -- and animals

Looney_Tunes -- and children -- and animals

Dory and Nemo -- and children -- and cats

Sister B -- and Ipad (or is it Ipod?)

Sonworshipper -- and her two youngest children -- and cat


I'm still feeling amazed to think I've actually had the good fortune of meeting these people in the flesh!! What a superb thrill!! ::clap


I responded to Dory when she forwarded it to me:


She is classy.


Thanks for forwarding. One feeling about last week is that I've never felt more whole and complete as a family. The kids are developing into awesome young people. I am so proud to know them and be a part of their lives. My bride is a gem of great value and she helps me strip away the worldly stuff that still clings to my heart.


Thank you Lord.


Thank you Nov. I love you.



Truly, I have never met better people than those I meet in this ministry. Thank you all for all your help.

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I'm a bit jealous! Okay, maybe, envy of ya'all would be a better way of saying it! Anyway, I so wish I could have been a part of your reunion, but, next time, for sure!


So happy for all of you, that you got to hang out with each other. Glad you had a great 4th weekend!



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One feeling about last week is that I've never felt more whole and complete as a family.

This is EXACTLY what I saw -- a whole and complete family!


THANK YOU for your generous hospitality, Nemo and Dory! You and every one of your four children made me feel relaxed and right at home! I enjoyed every minute! :D

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Honey, I want you to know that I think you are simply awesome. You put all you have into making life for our family loving, safe, fair, and educational. You are the greatest blessing God has put in my life. May he bless you with peace, energy, wisdom, and love.


I love you.

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Honey, I want you to know that I think you are simply awesome. You put all you have into making life for our family loving, safe, fair, and educational. You are the greatest blessing God has put in my life. May he bless you with peace, energy, wisdom, and love.


I love you.

Thank you , Love.


My confidence in us is growing and my anxieties overall are lessening.


Life is good.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, we hit a blip . . . er rather a series of blips during our recent vacation and neither Nemo nor were able to recover quickly.


He would "try" to recover and my "return to center" wasn't fast enough before the next trigger would hit.


We had lunch with Ken and Diane on the 17th.


Next thing, we were talking on sunday 17th night's call here...


Two days later, July 20th, Nemo came around and recommitted to this process.


He is SOOOOOO much like the Peter in the Bible!


So now we are waiting for him to convert the 3000!


Come on little fishy!


Time to become a great fisher of men! LOL!

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