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I pray your week has been going well and God has been pouring new insights and wisdom into your heart.


and this is just for you..


"you're 5 miles from the outermarker, turn left heading 200, maintain 2700 untill established on the localizer, cleared ILS Runway 23 right approach...maintain VFR"



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lol thanks but I have plenty of my own. Did you read how she is pregnant? This is again an area of concern because of her past hurts. I asked every day and it was to much, I didn't give her a hard time when she wasn't in the mood I just hung out and waited for her to be "in" the mood.

Now I am used to once or twice a week, add on top of this whole thing that a quickie or anything short of her reaching climax is unnacceptable (again mostly from old hurts) so it takes ALOT of energy to get myself in the right mind set for quality love making. So I spend 20 minutes getting myself revved up (but not to revved..) begin 4 play and hope that she is in the mood. Getting shut down 5 or 6 out of 7 tries really really sucks to say the least.

I am not blaming this on Pink, it is my issue but I don't know how to tackle it. I love my wife, she is absolutely amazing and beautifull and I love making love to her. I would make love to her every day if we could, I understand that with 2 kids and a 3rd on the way that our "alone" time is rather limited.

Also, the only alone time that we have is in the evening and I get kind of frustrated with trying to get the kids into bed early enough and still have enough energy for each other has been extremely trying.

Just to make sure I do help get the girls into bed, but I have two evening classes that creates problems as well and so there are times i get home late expecting to have my wife to myself and the girls are still up and they aren't near to going to bed. This does not happen every night and it is more times than not a result of the girls running over mom all day and she is at the end of her rope...also causing more interferance...I come home ready to make love to my wife..and I have to be the big meany to back Pink up and meanwhile she's drop dead tired....

Please do not misunderstand what I am saying...I'm not tring to bag on her or anything close to that...just painting the picture.....

Oh and I can't tell you what that "clearance" to 23R did...brought back lots of memories.

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I just re-read the beginning and it sounded like I was trying to trash her and I apologize for that, I didn't mean it to sound like that.

I know that her hurts are my honor to heal and this is an area that there are very deep hurts on so this will take lots of prayer and strength on both of our parts.

Anyways, just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to trash her or I resented her for where she is right now. Thanks

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Just a quick reply, how can I try to be intimtate with Pink when she won't let me close. She spent the whole day angry at me, pushing me away when I tried to get a kiss and then we spent 3 hours on the phone call last night which culminated in her wanting to play on myspace at 1030. I get up early in the morning for school, with a test today and I need sleep. I have been trying to get close to her but every time I do I feel like she gets angrier.

The libido thing, call me a sissy or what ever and I know its not supposed to be about me but I honestly have a hard time feeling intimate with her when she is nasty with me all day. All of a sudden at the end of the day its supposed to be all good and let's be intimate?

The other thing, she is paranoid about porn and self gratification which I have done none of. Like I said with all of the emotional turmoil going on in our relationship, along with the kids and million differant iron's in the fire it seems like it's just not a priority in her life...until it's been a few days and she is hurt because I didn't choose what priority's she has given me aren't important any more.

I didn't get huffy BTW. I told her I loved her and to have a good night, her response was F*&& off A88Hole. I ask her to fill me in when she is hurting on what I have done and her response is that I am supposed to figure it out.

Oh and the quicky thing, last time we were intimate and she didn't get there we tried for almost an hour and an half on a thursday afternoon. I had late class that night, and she met me at school friday to go drop the kids off w their dads. Then it was rush rush rush back here, pack and head to the coast where we stayed in a tiny cabin with her sister and brother in law w 3 kids....yeah lots of time to be intimate their. I was getting frustrated because every time I asked my wife to go somewhere with me for alone time she wouldn't and it was more important to stay up until midnight playing games than to again be alone.

Did I mind the weekend w her family? No I like all of them and enjoy my time with them but at the end of the weekend she even admitted to me that she was way to tired to do anything...and now its my fault that I didn't satisfy her before Monday.

If it weren't for school I wouldn't want a lap top or computer in the house at all, yet alone the internet. We had covenant eyes on here but we just got my lap top back and they wiped it and not sure how to put it back on yet. I don't mess with it at all, I don't want her to have the wrong idea that I know a way around it.

When she tells me to leave the room I have been instructed that I am to get up and leave, not comments complaints or suggestions so to speak...and that includes asking her what is going on. So that said, when she told me to leave last night I got up, grabbed pillows and left. How was I supposed to know she was crying if I can't ask, or be here to hear it?

Anyways, like I said real quick....

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No matter what I write it hurts Pink and I am trying to figure out how to write w/o doing so. I am going to back off from writing until I can figure out how to communicate effectively. I'll still read the posts and all that but going to try to quit speaking for now.

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how can I try to be intimtate with Pink when she won't let me close


OK...this is a question that almost ALL men ask at one point! So this is showing alot of growth right now!


While it may seem that she is shutting you down, the fact is that women need an emotional connection before the sexual can happen...Now the best way to go about doing this, is making sure you are connecting with Pink ALL day long emotionally and physically... Talking to her, listening to her, validating her feelings, etc...these are SO important to a women.


Another thing, part of the dying process is initiating with Pink..even if she does not respond. There are going to be times when you have no clue what she needs...thoes are the times when you need to ask...Do you need a hug right now? What can I do for you right now? These are good questions when you are not sure what you need to be doing...Sometimes she might come back and say..."I don't know" or "nothing"...thoes are the times you just sit close to her and put your hand on her knee or arm around her and "be there" in the moment with her...don't walk away and say to yourself "ok..she said there is nothing I can do"..sometimes its just "being there " beside her and being "in the moment"...


Now you do have a great thing going right now, even though it might not feel this way right now...Your wife is Pregnant at this moment...This is a time of celebrating her, making her feel beautiful, make her feel loved, pampered, etc....Women go though alot of things while they are pregnant, hormones running amock, body changes, and all thoes little embarrssing things as well...But the best thing a husband can do during this time, is to show her in words and actions how you adore her, how beautiful she is and what a miracle she is creating...


Now for lovemaking it self...it's not always about the climax..(while even that is part of it and a big part of it for both men and women), its also about being open to each other, vunverable to each other, and bonding to each other....and that starts the moment you wake up in the morning and all through out the day. You start by doing the 20/20/20 each and every day...(20 hugs, 20 smiles, 20 kisses)...Anticipation is the name of the game here...Women need anticipation through out the day, we need to have that conection with the man we love...


So let's get to the root of the problems...What has Pink been asking of you that you are not doing? Is it more conversations? Is it more listening to her feeling and taking responsablity for thoes hurts? If she is spending the whole day angry...then you need to find out what is going on? Is she feeling down about herself and the changes in her body? Is there a disconnect between the two of you?


Flyboy...I am starting to see a change in your posting here, and I hope that this is being carried over into your marriage as well. Yes, its small steps...but it does feel as if you are wanting to make these changes so that you can grow and mature..becoming the man that your wife knows you can be..it's going to be a long road...but you can do this!


I asked you earlier this week...How much have you read of the books? Where are you in your reading? This is VERY important...Reading and understanding these books are the TOOLS you need to learn and grow...SO I pray that you are still reading and learning...




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I understand where you are coming from. Ive always been told foreplay begins in the kitchen..or laundry room. By meeting her needs she gets in the mood. But it doesn't seem to work the other way. Its hard to get in the mood to initiate when you've been recently emasculated.


But enough of our pity party.


Ok.. I'll keep my labido..but Ive got some pills if you need them.



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Just finished reading your wife's posting...should probably have read thoes first before responding...


What is up with NOT wanting to take pictures of your wife while she is pregnant?????????


Are you nuts!!! Now come on...this would have been a great time to initiate with her, show her how much you love the changes her body is going through, a time to connect with each other and improve her self worth and self esteem!


You really need to apologize for this one, and get that camera out and take rolls of pictures of her! This would have been a great time for the both of you and could have led to a wonderful love making session!


Get that camera out! That's an ORDER! Do it tonight!!!!!!If you don't I'm coming after you will a caddle prod!



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MKD, I was wondering if you are in aviation as well, your Instrument clearance was almost spot on so you have to be invloved some how.


That out of the way, it seems like I am always chasing my tail when it comes to satisfying Pink. If I am doing one thing (because i understood that's what she wanted) then i should have been doing this instead. I do ask constantly what I can do for her, run what I am doing by her making sure that it is in line with her goal for the day...I help with the kids, I help make dinner...all trying to ease her burdens, freeing her up for more energy to be happy and healthy not only while pregnant but so that she can be that AMAZING mom that she is. That said, I don't feel in my heart that I am good enough for her as when I do 10 things, running between them, doing one while waiting for the paint to dry in the other and then running back to the third so that she see's that i care for her....I get really really exhausted. During all of this time, i love nothing more than to pinch her bottom, flurt with her by making sexual inuendo jokes that only we can pick up on, and constantly constantly kissing and hugging her. So the 20 Hugs/kisses/smiles thing I have no problem with and i do keep going back for more when she is upset. it just seems like some times there is nothing that I am going to be able to do to make her happy and break her out of the mood. If I am kissing her, she starts to relax and then whammo you can see something else come rushing in to that void and she is off and running again on some totally differant direction.

I am getting so many mixed signals that I am CONFUSED. Time to read the book? Yes I have been trying but w 15 credits, two kids, 10 daily projects and chores as well as trying to wait on Pink trying to show her I love her with a smile on my face the book hasn't gotten read a whole lot. Two or three page average per night.

The "trying to wait on Pink" was not meant to be derogatory. I try to get one daughter up and in the shower w/o waking the other or Pink, would love to make breakfast for her but so far more mornings than not she either isn't hungry or just makes it herself after I have asked her. doesn't hurt my feelings just saying that I try. Take the daughter to school, head off to school myself, call/text thru out the day, get home try to kiss her as soon as I get thru the door, ask her how her day went and if there is anything that she needs me to do immidiately, if nothing I try homework or work on the honey do list she has given me, kiss her as often as I can, which is more for me than for her I think as I am a very affectionat person and love to laugh and play with both her and the kids.

She told me I was being a jerk yesterday, because I wasn't initiating intimacy, but when I asked her how to initiate when she is physically pushing me away when I try to kiss her, she said to stop being a jerk and she won't push me away. How can I stop being a jerk and be a jerk at the same time? Again I am so confused right now, I don't know what the heck I am doing that is hurting her so badly. I try to communicate, and have done a better job of just apologizing and listening to her but its VERY difficult when she is blaming me for something that I did not do. How do I apologize for that? The porn thing, she is absolutely certain that I am looking at porn and I can understand her concern, however I have been doing everything I can to reasure her that I haven't. She has covenent eyes on the computer and its coming up with all of these weird websites that I have no clue what they mean. I ask for times and dates of when I supposedly visited them and I guess that is being defensive. I feel like since she is suspicious of the porn that she is making things up trying to trip me up and make me apologize...for something that i am not doing....its a vicous cycle and one I would LOVE to break out of.


One more thing, Pink gets upset with me that I write to much, then gets upset with me when I don't tell every single detail of a certain situation. Like my comment about having late classes and saying the kids are awake when I get home. The exact details are that I have a Tuesday class till 9 and so get home at 930...thursday I have a class that begins at 8 and is over at almost 11 then the hour drive home so I don't get home until midnight...then get up at 630 the next morning so I can shower and help get our daughter ready for school....to much detail or not enough? Talk or not talk? Apologize and accept consequences for something I am not doing or clarify details and sound like I am being defensive?

I really really wish that some one could observe our daily life, and tell me what the heck I am doing that is making my wife so miserable. I am exhausted from all of the fighting, and feel like I am physically dieing every time my wife is upset.

She is pregnant, and this was supposed to be one of the best times of our lives but instead I some how have completely screwed it up and what's worse have no idea how to fix it, make her happy and show her how much she means to me. The more I try, the worse things have gotten. Not giving up, love her to much for that but I wonder some times if her life would be better off with out me in it. Early on she said I was amazing but for the last 10 months I have been everything but when my heart has been for her. Honest evaluation of where my heart lies in daily living is 95% for her and 5% me trying to clean up the loose ends from life past and give her the other 5.

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I do want to take pics, I bought a brand new camera just so I could and she accidentaly got dropped in the bath tub. So we have to use her OLD school one....that doesn't ever seem to be charged and is definiately HERS and I am to have no say in where it is...why do I ask this? So I can make sure it is charged. My old camera doesn't hardly work any more but I still try to use it.

At the coast this weekend I tried to take pics, I took our cam corder with me but lost it in the mess of the weekend, instead tried to use her camera which was conveniently dead. I have asked to take pictures of her, but I am not very imaginative on poses and places....my mind just doesn't work that way. So if we are in the bedroom and I ask for THOSE pics she denies because she doesn't want me to look at them and self gratify, or she says she's not a slut or what not....ok so be it..let's go outside and take pics....well we can't do it there because her EX took those pics, can't do it here because she doesn't like this or that....then after she has shot down all of my ideas she tells me that I need to think of some more.... I finally BEG her enough to allow me to just snap some shots and she winds up liking them, wishing that she hadn't been so grumpy faced when we took them. I do take pics of my wife, does she want them every day? If thats the case GREAT....I'll make it happen but I am telling you I am not creative in the least bit, I try but again it's a case of my effort not being good enough because her EX/Dad/brother/cousin/mailman can do so much better and I just need to use my brain!!!

The only solution I can think of is to buy a new camera today, and keep total control over it so I don't have to go looking for it when I want to take pics and that it stays out of the water and is charged w room on the memorie card when the time comes to take the pics.

My old house when I lived alone I had an organized system of where my camera and other electronics were when I wasn't using them...since I am not allowed to decorate or say where something should be kept then I am at the mercy of the willy nilly organization system that seems to be in effect in the house.

She makes a pile that is in the middle of something that I think something else should go there, so I move it to the middle of something that she thinks should go there, she gets mad, moves it back, I get mad, move it back.....its a bad bad cycle.

I guess maybe I need to take pics of her even when she's mad or what? I feel like I am being over worked trying to keep up with everything that she wants done.

The "I feel loved" list is about 1% of what it truly is so do I wait to fullfill her needs until she lists it or do I ignore (for lack of time) some needs for others? VERY confused, hurt and tired. So I guess you could say the changes are maybe a broken spirit leading me to a broken mind and body.

I feel like since her Ex led the house with power and authority, she didn't have a say in anything to do with anything....and since I am the opposite and just want to get along that she is running amok trying to fix everything that her ex did to her by being mad at me. (That is a very rough statement so please don't pick the wording apart but instead focus on where my heart is>)

Would it be wrong to voice what my list of "chores" or what the honey do list is that I am faced with right now? Not saying I can't do the list, just saying that they are HUGE projects individually and together are near impossible to all get accomplished on a very limited budget and time. maybe that would shed some light on what my day is like and all that...better yet maybe Pink will so that i don't look like I am trying to self glorify or anything like that. Would rather be clarifying questions that she raises than looking like a glory hound as I have been blamed of here.

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Good go take thoes pictures no matter what you have to do..


I know that you are getting confused...and that it would be so easy if we could just give you a "to do" list and that would make it all better...and then Pink will be happy...


It's more than just a "to do" list...its about making emotional connections, bonding and listening, validating, apologizing, etc.


She is looking for a deeper level of itimatcy from you, a one flesh relationship in her marriage...


While I am sure you are busy with the "to do" list that you have to do each and every day...we all have our own "to do" lists as well...it's deeper than just getting the "job" done...


It's living in knowledge with your wife, having a one flesh relationship with your wife...a deeper initimate relationship, opening your heart to your wife and allowing her heart to be opened to you...flaws and all...and standing naked before each other and seeing that love in your eyes, and not feeling rejected...like I said, it deeper than just doing "job's"...


It could be that you are trying to do all these things like a "list" while she is sitting there watching you run around doing things while she is wanting you to just sit down and "be there" with her in the moment...Go there with her in her pain and frustrations...


This is a heart change she's looking for...a heart that turns to her and fills her with love...knowing that no matter how busy life is...you are able to meet her where she is at...It's not about changing her or fixing her...its all about changing your heart..and turning your heart towards her...




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I would have NO problem just sitting down and sharing a "moment" with her, the problem is that I am not getting the 10 things done that she wants at that moment and so later that evening she would then change tracks from being upset with me that I didn't spend time with her to being upset with me that the house isn't as clean as she wants or that the house in Lowell hasn't gotten any closer to being taken care of....

Like I said mixed signals and not enough time in the day to meet every single one of her (spoken) needs that she requires every single day.

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I also don't think you guys realize that the things I do are because my heart is turned towards her. I could spend all day listing the things that I have given up in my life in order to put her first, not a job list but a heart list. Things that she was attracted to when we met, but that needed to go away in order for her to be priority in my life. Do I resent her for me making the choice to put her first? Not at all, I would however like that to be taken into account when my love for her or my priority in life is questioned. I love her very much and try to love her in the ways that I know how....asking her for further advice hasn't been to successfull.

Speaking of which somebody was supposed to have lots and lots of date ideas for those on a very limited budget? I would love to hear some! The picnic at the park is kinda out of the question this winter though....will definately take it up for next summer...speaking of which I had the same idea but mine was a nice fire on the beach just her and I, but I couldn't get her to co-operate to make it happen. There's more to the date, but I know that she is going to read this and I don't want to give all of the details and give it away....lol

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I just got finished reading over the last page of your thread. I don't know your WHOLE story, but I feel I understand enough to respond.


I understand that you are genuinely frustrated. With the pornography, for example, if it is true that you aren't looking at pornography and your wife is still convinced that you are... I can understand where that is frustrating. But part of your growth right now is laying that frustration aside and asking, "What is this about? What is my wife needing right now?"


I don't know if you are being honest or not. For the sake of argument, let's say you are being honest... you aren't hiding ANYTHING from your wife that needs to be confessed. Well... your wife STILL has a feeling that something is off. That HAS to be listened to and addressed. It cannot be ignored or written off.


I have been there with my husband. A wife KNOWS when something is amiss. There have been several times when I have had this knowing and assumed it was pornography because that is what it was for so many years, but it actually turned out to be some other thing that my husband was hiding. My husband did not get defensive with me when I confronted him about it. He looked me in the eyes very sincerely and said, "I haven't looked at anything, babe. I promise."


Did that reassure me? No! He had lied to me in the past. There was no resolution in my heart. (This is where Pink is right now. And any smidgen of defensive--which sometimes comes out in an irritated tone--just reaffirms her uneasiness.) So I asked him, "What ARE you hiding from me?" And do you know what he did? He searched his heart and he DID identify something he had been hiding. I knew it!


Why am I telling you this? Because your wife is sensing something. It is a gift for you. God has given her a knowing about things so that the two of you will not be separated. Secrets create separation.


Okay, let's say that even after searching your heart you can't identify ANYTHING that is hidden. Even then, what Pink is feeling is STILL valid. What she is expressing is that she is feeling unsafe, unsure. Your job is to then speak words of life and hope and comfort to her. Instead of getting frustrated at her for feeling the way she does, you empathize: "Honey, I can totally understand why you would feel uneasy and like you can't trust me. I have broken trust with you many times. I am so sorry for the way I have wounded you by looking at pornography and keeping secrets. I am committed to breaking that cycle. I am committed to doing whatever it takes to heal your heart and show you that I am a man worthy of your trust. Please tell me whenever you feel this way so that I can help ease your pain."


If you will consistently and continually approach your wife IN THIS MANNER I know that you will feel less frustrated... because she will begin to heal.


You said that you feel like Pink gives you mixed messages.... Early on in the process with my husband I didn't know what I wanted. He had me so off balance for so long that when he started to change and genuinely asked me what I needed, I had no idea how to respond! OR my needs changed frequently... so even though I said I needed one thing I would realize that I really needed something entirely different! (When a woman has been mistreated and lied to over a period of time, she eventually feels so off balance and loses so much confidence in her own sense of knowing that she has to do some work to get back in touch with what is really going on inside. At least, that was true for me.)


My husband was very patient with me (not perfect, but patient) and pressed through his own discomfort and frustration and stayed in a place of being open to what I needed. Sometimes he asked me what I needed and I would get frustrated and snap, "I don't know!" and sometimes he would check in with me and say little things like, "If you can think of something I can do to help you right now, let me know and I will be happy to do it." OR he would just go and do things to bless me. And you know what? After a very short period of time--as my husband was loving, patient and consistent--I started to more easily identify exactly what I needed and was then able to communicate that with my husband. But I couldn't do that early on... I was still reeling from all of the years of pain, betrayal and neglect. It takes time.


I hear you saying that your heart IS turned toward your wife. I am not going to argue with that point. BUT your wife is NOT getting that message from you, and that is what counts. So you MUST figure out what will communicate to her that you are IN this and committed to doing what it takes to restore what has been damaged. Not all of her wounds were inflicted by her ex-husband. Pornography is extremely destructive in a marriage and causes deep wounds. Did her husband wound her? Yes. Would she be in pain right now even if she had never been previously married? Yes.


I hope you hear my heart in this. I genuinely want to help you. I get that you are frustrated. But I hope this helps you understand a bit more of how to get out of the cycle of frustration you have been living in because that will NOT help heal your wife's heart.


Think tenderness, compassion, understanding, kindness, patience. Be aware of your tone when you speak with Pink. If you will get these things in line in YOURSELF, all of this periphery stuff ("does she want me to do chores or sit with her?") will work itself out. It is just the way it works. I know it because I live it.


You can do this. It really is simple. Not easy, but simple.

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flyboy...I hope my instrument clearance was more than ALMOST spot on.. since I am an air traffic controller. =-)


I get where you are coming from. I do the multitasking thing too.

I know you don't want a parade, you just want other things taken into consideration on the balance. But, we also must take into consideration

the pain we've caused in the balance as well.

I may or may not be on the boards much longer, so just know I am

praying for you, Pink, and your family.


oh..and talk to the baby in her belly if she will let ya..


grace and peace



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well it has been refreshing speaking with you and I appreciate the positive and supportive writings. I will keep you in my prayers as well.

I kind of thought that must be what you had going, like I said it brought back ALOT of memories for me. Almost painfull to recall how much fun it was to fly. Unfortunately after Silver State went bankrupt, I couldn't leave to chase the helicopter like my other buddies did. Take care of yourself if I don't hear back from you.

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I understand laying things aside until she is able to be healed, my frustration is around what I feel like is her trying to trap me into admitting something I'm not doing.

My question is can she hear my heart or is she still stuck on her ex husband's hurts...I can answer part of that but what I am asking is if she is going to accept the love that I am showing her...or am I going to continually be dealing with her ex's past. HE was the one into porn, and HE was the one that supressed her so I can see that she doesn't have it all figured out what exactly she wants like you were saying and I have no problem being patient...my problem is when she is pushing me for everything to be PERFECT right this minute...no work or time taken from fun family time but everything right this second. I am in this for life and in that life there are going to be dark times when we are going to need each others strength to push thru...so far I feel like during these dark days I am having to fight her to go thru it with me....again rough so please don't attack me to hard here. Thanks

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Am I wrong or aren't most women who are 8 months pregnant a little flustered and unpredictable? The whole nesting thing.


You've got one more month to go. Hang in there.. bite your tongue, and do the latest thing she has asked you to do and assume that it will be wrong but do it anyway. Keep no record of her wrongs and love her. Momma and baby don't need any more stress.


I know you can do it.. make this last month of pregnancy remarkable.. in a great way that is.



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Actually have almost two months left....but I understand what you mean. I try not to keep track of the "wrongs" and used to be much better at letting things go...it's just a culmination of frustration of not getting my love across to my wife I guess. Poor excuse I know but that's where I am.

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Ok the porn thing. I haven't told her just because we have a watch dog on the lap top that she doesn't have the right to feel the way she is feeling. Where my frustration lies is vague questions about something that the filter turned up to her, and feeling like it is a witch hunt with her trying to prove her feelings mean that I am looking at porn!

I understand that her ex screwed around on her, and I screwed up once in the past as well so she has every right to be suspicious. The only thing I have asked is that when the filter comes up with something, give me the time and date so I can give her an honest answer about what was happennig at the time. For awhile she was upset because she thougt I was looking at the Personals, when it was a spam email that was being sent to me, not being looked at on my part but deleted and the filter was some how picking up on it. I have tried to get the spam to stop, but it is a loosing battle.

For me to just apologize and accept the responsibilty for the personal's would have been stupid suicide on my part. Instead I asked questions and we did some research to find out why it popped up. I have none of the passwords to any of the filters or blocks and I really don't want any. I am trying everything that I know to prove to her that she is my one and only...mind, and body. I know it will take time to prove it to her, and I am more than willing to give her the time...I just want the witch hunt questions to stop. Give me specific times and examples, not just vague questions that no matter how I answer I am going to be be wrong.

Anything else besides lust/porn I have some sort of flexibility to make a mistake, but here it is a do or die, pass or fail type situation.

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