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Ok going to make this short. (yeah right)

 

Trying to stay current so I will talk about this weekend.

1. I had plans for Pink's birthday, she didn't like them. I adjusted plans several times to fit around a changing schedule and this upset Pink. The final straw was when we were in the car headed to go pick up cats from vet, drop off girls w her ex and then to dinner. I didn't know what I did at the time, to me it seemed like from what she told me at the time, she was upset that I didn't make the dinner plans sooner. She told me to get out of the car and left for the evening. She came back late that night, tore into me again, not accepting my apology or any suggestion of making things up at that time. I asked her repeatedly, after apologizing, what I could do at that moment to keep her birthday from being a total ruin. Her answer was it was to far gone all ready. I didn't handle the situation perfectly and imagine at times I was acting childish. I don't blame Pink for her actions or re-actions, I just wish there had been some way to stop the cycle and get back on track with a positive attitude. I tried the apology and all that, but I was in her eyes only feeling sorry for myself. So when I apologize I either don't really mean it, or I am feeling sorry for myself.

 

2. The fliring issues...I asked her for clarification on the flirting and she gets upset that I am asking, taking it as defensiveness. Flirting w my son's mom is so not true in my eyes, as I feel like I talk to her in the same tone, mannerisms and result as I do Pink's sisters, women in our church and so on. I don't deny for the most part the way Pink described things going down...I was fed up with being attacked and all of the progress I had made for the weekend getting thrown out. The woman in our group issue at the barbecue, I didn't realize she was firting until about two seconds after it happened. I walked up to the group of women huddling around the vegetable tray, they made a joke at my expense and the girl jabbed me in the side. I have no interest in the woman, it didn't phase me until I had that moment to think about WHO it was doing it. I realized that she was probably flirting and I turned around and walked out of the house. Later Pink approached me in front of every one, kind of off to the side and let me have both barrels about how upset she was. I didn't handle it correctly and it took me a few minutes of thinking about what my response should have been...I approached Pink and pulled her into a room alone to apologize and try to reconfirm to her that I was not trying to flirt, that it had made me feel uncomftorable and to ask how I could have handled it differantly. She didn't know what I should have done differantly, just made the woman feel uncomftorable. I honestly don't know how to do so, w/o making a huge scene and all that, and felt that by distancing myself from her immidiately, and avoiding being next to her or anything like that the rest of the night that I had made my point clear but Pink felt otherwise. I was asking her for clarification on this when she said I was being stupid, childish and defensive then asked me to sleep in the living room. I did say "with pleasure" because it seems like every night she has to drag out every single little thing that has happened in the past 10 years, blame it all on me, and want me to fix it right then w/o even knowing what I am supposed to do to fix it. Then when I ask what I should have done, or how I can make it better, or how I can fix it right then she belittles me and tells me to "FIGURE IT OUT" I was tired of being attacked, and a little surprised to tell you the truth that she was worked up like she was.

Saturday while she was gone yes I had a football game on, and had drank a couple of beers so I imagine that she was right that I smelled like beer. However, I had gotten up that morning and began cleaning the house, going through the laundry trying to clean things up for Pink when she came home. After she had left again the evening before, I texted her several times to come home but she wouldn't respond back. I thought she needed some space, and kept myself busy doing the things I thought she wanted done. In the process, I had piles of dirty laundry sorted out in our room waiting for their turn in the washer and all that. She came home, got cleaned up and after giving me a few instructions on other chores she wanted done left again. There are more details here, just trying to keep it short. I wound up riding with her to the barbecue.

We had had a good time at the barbecue, laughed alot together playing a game with the other couples and seemed like we were actually communicating again. Then on the way home, she spent 20 minutes unloading on me, blaming me for everything under the sun including asking me why I had left piles of dirty clothes out when I know that she doesn't like that.....did I mention that I was in the middle of doing the laundry when she came home, giving me just a few short minutes to get changed to go to the barbecue? So I chose to leave the dirty clothes, as well as the load I had just pulled out of the dryer until we got home that night.

After spending the evening trying to emotionally re-connect with her, she starts attacking me because I am a pig, slob and stupid by not taking care of the laundry. I had two choices to make, go with her to the barbecue RIGHT THIS MOMENT, or staying to finish my self imposed chores....this is what I am frustrated with, and something that I am trying so desperatly to understand. Some are going to say to apologize anyways, but what I am trying to tell you is that this single act, exhorborates our relationship so badly that it just restarts the cycle of hurt for her.

She looks at the fact that I didn't finish the laundry, instead of all of the laundry I did, the rest of the house that I cleaned, and the fact that I dropped everything to go to the barbecue with her. Then on the way home, she is upset with me because of all of these THINGS that I didn't accomplish at home, while we were at the barbecue together, giving me a list of items that I should have done to make her happy that day. We get home, its late and I stayed up cleaning up the loose ends of my cleaning day as well as the few other things she had told me she wanted done on the way home.

Then I crawl into bed and she is upset because I wasn't spending time with her and I just wasn't getting it.

So sunday the almost same thing happened, we spent the morning making love, then watched a movie together while she researched pregnancy positions...then we went to town to pick the girls up, stopping at best buy to buy her a pink camera, so that I could take pictures of her...we picked the girls up, took everyone over to the capital and spent a bunch of time taking pictures...we got home later in the evening, I had hours of homework I had put off trying to get the houe cleaned saturday, then spending the day sunday trying to spend some quality time with Pink. I didn't get done w my homework until almost 11....went into the bedroom hoping Pink was still awake watching TV but alas she had drifted off to sleep during what ever show it was she was watching. So I crawled into bed, waking her and she started in on me that I didn't initiate sex and she was really hurt by that. I asked for clarification, she got more upset telling me to stop being an idiot and playing dumb. During this I was trying to apologize, to ask what I should have done but it just got her more worked up.

I reverted back to my old self, trying to point out to her (even though it was in a calm voice) that I had in fact spent the day trying to re connect with her, ignoring all of the things that I had to get done to stay in bed with her, and all she could tell me was that I needed to "FIGURE IT OUT" as to what else I should have done....then she started in on the flirting thing, I asked her for further clarification as to what more she wanted me to do to make it clear to the woman that that wasn't ok....again "FIGURE IT OUT" and quit being stupid. I was laying next to her, tried to put my hand on her leg, she has to have pillows on each side of her, so lately the cuddling has been at foot level, also I can't lay towards her because even with ear plugs in she still hears me breathing...not snoring but a click thing that happens when I breath in....so I am trying to cuddle with her feet, while having my hand on her leg...she told me to get my hand off her because she could tell that I didn't mean it...not sure what that meant but I removed my hand.

Shortly after was when she asked me to leave the room, and I shouldn't have said anything but just left....but honestly it is a releif to get sent out of the bedroom now. I am trying so hard, chasing my tail in a circle and feel like I am getting kicked while I do it. I don't complain to her, but after a certain point I give up.

Oh and the intensive thing again...Pink is PREGNANT and can not fly...and the baby is due in December so why don't you ask her how soon she will be willing to leave our baby at home for a week? That should give you your answer on the intensive timing.

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Her list of "I feel loved when...." is about 1% of what it truly should be, and I could spend all day attending to that very list, coming up short because there is only so much time in the day, and because I didn't pay attention to paragraph 4, sentence 3, subparagraph 5, by-line A, the day is a complete failure which leads me back down the road of trying to point out the things I did for her that day.

She doesn't notice anything I do, instead puts all of her attention and energy into feeling hurt for the things that I didn't do. Leading to more hurt.

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Pure in Heart,

Your post is exactly the problem with this situation. If you read other peoples advice, it is counter productive from what they are encouraging Pink and I to do, which is communicate my short comings in a positive way, with reminders that I did something wrong AS WELL AS, the kudos for when I get something right. Positive re-enforcement works much better than negative...not sure if you have ever heard that or not. So by telling me to "quit being dumb" because I know exactly what I am doing at all times, is not helping the situation out at all.

I have admitted there are times that I make a decision knowing full well that Pink isn't going to like it....normally I take the hit with out defensiveness. However, most of the time I am honestly pure in my heart trying to do well for Pink and don't understand that she wanted something else done at that time.

Shutting my mouth as you suggested I do only worsens the problem. Pink wants answers right then, wants it fixed right then, even if it isn't something I can control, it is my responsibilty to fix it right then.

"If you do not have wisdom or know what to do...ask your wife" ???? That is exactly the problem....I am admitting I don't know what the crap is going on...and ask her for clarification.....and get the normal "FIGURE IT OUT" response...oh and I'd better figure it out 5 minutes ago too.

 

For him for her,

 

I COMPLETELY AGREE THAT I NEED A STARTING POINT. I thought it was her chore list that she had given me, because I had let things slide outside, trying to chase her and all of that she got upset with me that she was overwhelmed with the outside....so I was killing myself working the outside, trying to show her I cared, and she got uspet because its not about a list its about the heart....

I would not be doing the work that I have been doing if my heart wasn't in it to show Pink how much she means to me. A starting point would be AMAZING.

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I do appreciate the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and find it funny how the comments are that I show ZERO appreciation for all of the heart felt and loving advice I get....have you actually read my posts Firewalker?

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I will say this, GOD knows who i am, where my heart is and what my true intentions are...and I would LOVE to be at his feet right now being judged. Yes I feel VERY misunderstood, and laugh at the thought of Pink doing the things that are suggested for her to do on here.....I laugh because those are the VERY SAME THINGS that I have asked for two years now. The very same things that we had agreed to do when we first met, spoke about our ex's and how much they hurt us.

 

Does God only hold the husband responsible for his actions, while the wife gets to lay down her sin on to the husband, blaming him for all of her actions, or is she expected to act according to his word as well?

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Pink,

Just in case you get this I am not ignoring you...I forgot my cell phone at home. Check the bed and you'll see it is in there. You might know all ready, but just in case wanted to be sure. I love you

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I have a question for ya...

 

Tell us how you meet your wife. What did you do then to win her heart and get her to agree to marry you. What promises did you make that you haven't kept? When you were dating, how did you go about pursuing your wife's heart?

 

Your post is exactly the problem with this situation. If you read other peoples advice, it is counter productive from what they are encouraging Pink and I to do, which is communicate my short comings in a positive way, with reminders that I did something wrong AS WELL AS, the kudos for when I get something right.

 

While, yes we do want a wife to respond when a husband is doing the right things...the cux of this is that right now, she is NOT in a safe place YET to respond the way you feel you need her to do... Which is one of the reason we ask husbands to go first..to do this WITHOUT expecting any response from him wife.

 

While we all know that its hard to do, its part of the dying process. Giving up everything no matter if she responds like you expect her to do or not.

 

She needs to feel safe that you are not going to blow it. Right now, its not about how she responds, but in HOW you handle that response. How you can become Jesus in the flesh for her. Being a Christlike husband...

 

Think about what Jesus did....and what He would do...He didn't expect kudo's for all he did. He didn't want the Kudos's for feeding the 5000..He didn't expect kudo's for going to the cross and laying down his life for his bride (the church), He didn't expect anyone to turn against their evil ways to follow him...even though that was his prayer. He went without knowing that We would follow him.

 

Pink needs to know that no matter what, you are committed to her, your marriage and following Christ...Laying down your life for your wife and HUMBLING yourself before her and others just as Christ did for you!

 

Blessings

Heather

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Heather,

Thanks for the advice, I don't mean to come off as sexist when I ask for man to man advice...its just a simple matter of understanding what the heck is going on right now. I do want to apologize for being the way that I have been, I am not the same man that my wife met.

I'll be glad to tell you the process, I am afraid to get into it and start trashing Pink so I need to think about how to respond, besides I am very short on time and as we all know I am not one lacking for words.

I will come back to this, this afternoon (hopefully) as long as it fits into the schedule that Pink has in mind. Not being hornery, just trying to get into the habit of asking her her needs when I get home so I can put her first. Depending on her response I may be back on here, also I have ALOT of studying to do to catch up but I will make every attempt to be back on here. Geeze that was long winded...maybe if Pink reads this she can get that started? I am tired of verbally crossing swordes with her, when we are both describing the same silver car.... and knowing when to give all of the detail and when she doesn't want me to give all of the detail....

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You are caught in a cycle and it is clear that you don't know how to get out of it. I see that you are desperately trying to communicate what you have been doing to show Pink that you love her and you don't understand where you went wrong.

 

But your approach to her hasn't really changed yet. Didn't you come into this forum with the frustration that nothing you do is really good enough for your wife? I am not saying this to condemn you, I am asking honestly. So... if you are still stuck in that same question, in that same cycle, then you must ask yourself, "Why do I keep doing the same things over and over again and expect a different outcome?"

 

I understand that you probably think think that you have changed what you are doing. And you have... slightly. You are now asking Pink more questions about what she wants... but the most important change has not yet occured. That change is your attitude.

 

Do you want this boiled down to the simplest answer? The answer at the core is ATTITUDE. When your attitude shifts, Pink will start to heal. IT WILL. But right now, your attitude is so unpredictable, that you are not initiating the healing process in her at all. I know you are trying but here is why it isn't working.

 

Imagine Pink has just suffered a nearly fatal wound on her leg. She can't function normal because it is nearly impossible to walk on it in its current state and she has to be extra vigilant so that no contaminants get near the wound or it could get infected. This IS what a woman's heart is like when it has suffered the kinds of blows to it that Pink's has. How she sustained the wound (whether from her parents, friends, past boyfriends, teachers, ex-husband, you) is not important. The critical issue is that she is WOUNDED.

 

It would be cruel of you to expect her to clean the house, run errands, give you a massage, host a dinner party, etc. while she is in this critical state. But in some ways you are acting this way. Pink is off balance right now because she is wounded. You have to adjust your expectations of her in this season of life with that understanding.

 

Imagine that we are the doctors on this forum and we specialize in wound care. We send her home with you and give you specific instructions about how to keep the wound clean and other ways to promote healing. You begin by following the directions, but then you decide you don't fully agree with us, so you start rubbing your own ointment on the wound, or you deal with it a little less gingerly than we instructed. Do you know what kind of reaction you would get from your wife? She would scream! Because not following "doctor's orders" would cause her MORE pain.

 

She has even said on her thread that she wishes that you would listen more to the counsel that is being offered to you here... but you have continued with the same approach since the beginning... you explain what you ARE doing and express frustration at her response.

 

Are you doing some things right? Yes. It is good that you asked Pink how you could have handled the situation with the woman better at the bbq. But I would venture to say that you slipped in a little attitude when you asked it. Why? Because of Pink's response. The way that you handled the situation did not cause a rest to come to her heart. She needed more from you... she needed UNDERSTANDING.

 

Back to the wound analogy. It's like Pink said, "Hey, this dressing is getting smelly. I think the wound needs to be cleaned." You don't FEEL like cleaning it, but you do. Seems like you're doing everything you can to promote healing, right? You are doing what she asked you.

 

Except that your attitude stinks while you are cleaning it and this causes you to be a little too rough as you are applying the ointment and putting on clean bandages. You are applying too much pressure and it HURTS Pink. You finish the task and stand back and say, "There, I'm finished, woman. Are you happy?" She looks at you incredulously and says, "No! You hurt me!" You raise your hands in exasperation and come to the conclusion that there is nothing you can do to please this woman!

 

You may not resonate with the analogy, but this IS what is going on in your marriage. You keep explaining what you are doing... and sometimes I wonder if you are thinking that if you just give enough details one of us is finally going to see the light and agree with you that your wife will never be happy.

 

Are you trying to initiate things to bless Pink? Yes, I think you are. But your heart is still not softened enough. When you are consistently in an open and humble place all of these side issues will fade away.

 

You HAVE to pour all of your energy right now into creating a safe place for Pink. You do not have to agree with everything that we say or Pink says. But you do need to come to a place in your heart that says, "I want to show my wife that I love her and I am going to do WHATEVER it takes so that message comes through clearly."

 

It seems that you are good at asking Pink what she wants, so why don't you put your focus on your ATTITUDE when you are asking her and when you are completing the task? Stay in touch with yourself. Listen to your tone of voice. Be aware of your body language. Think, "safe place" in your mind and try to embody that. I really believe THIS is where the breakdown is happening. And it is a trainwreck over and over!

 

There is no excuse for you to be reactive to her anymore. Remember, she is critically wounded right now. She needs you to be extra vigilant. Even the slightest tap on her leg could potentially hurt her. Take this attitude when you deal with her. It will not always be this way so long as you actually start bringing healing to her heart.

 

So the next time that you do something for Pink and you don't get a good reaction from her, step back for a moment. Take a deep breath and remind yourself of the task you have been given right now. Think, "Safe Place." Then, return to Pink with an attitude of gentleness and say, "Honey, it is really important to me that you get from me how much I love you. I know I have not been doing a good job at this recently, but I do want to learn. Is there something else that I could do right now to bless you?" Don't change your attitude based on her response. Remember, she is still in a lot of pain. She may not know immediately what she needs. YOU are the initiator here.

 

If you will take this stance and keep this attitude CONSISTENTLY, you are going to see some huge changes happen in your marriage. You won't find yourself asking the same questions and experiencing the same frustrations. Why? Because your approach will be different and you WILL get a different outcome.

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Does God only hold the husband responsible for his actions, while the wife gets to lay down her sin on to the husband, blaming him for all of her actions, or is she expected to act according to his word as well?

 

This is why you NEED the intensive.

 

Flyboy, I understand your frustration...and I understand the things in the way of you going to the intensive. I went to the intensive when my baby was around 12 weeks old. It was hard...but what was worse was caring for the baby as the marriage was crumbling apart around me.

 

Maybe Mike and Annalea know someone who can watch your baby there, while you are at the intensive, but that way, you'll still have the baby at night and during "off" times for breastfeeding and bonding and such?

 

The issue with the intensive is that it can seriously help you understand all of this so much better. Your marriage is basically struggling to stay alive, and I think everyone is just worried that if you wait for a long time before going to the intensive, you might not make it.

 

You will have so much more understanding and ability to "hear" your wife AFTER the intensive. I know it's really hard to believe it, but it is true.

 

Anyway, as far as your wifes seemingly constant demands and venting...I know it seems wrong to you, but you must just take it. Become the impenetrable wall. Don't let it get you upset or flustered. Just imagine how Jesus would take it. Jesus would be angry and sin not. Just take it.

 

Nobody is saying that your wife can do as she pleases with no accountability. Not at all. The women working on their marriages have A LOT that they must do. It is hard work, too. But at THIS STAGE in your marriage recovery, you should refrain from worrying about anyone elses behavior but your own. Let the helpers and the moderators on calls work with your wife if there is an issue.

 

Also, I really REALLY think you should try to get on the calls. Really. Can you do that? That is not asking too much. I know you are both busy, but they are late in the evening. They will help you SO MUCH!

 

Another thing. WHen you insult helpers like Firewalker and Pure in Heart, you are really wounding your wife. These helpers are very wise and mature, and many times when they take the time to comment on your string, they are speaking your wife's heart for you...in a different way, in order to help you understand. WHen your wife reads you getting frustrated with them, it hurts her...and in turn, it makes her vent more rage and poison on to you. So, if it hurts your wife, it hurts you.

 

I'm just trying to help you, here. My heart is to see you and Pink happy, and welcoming this little baby into the world. Please put down your pride and your frustration (and exhaustion) and just try to hear what people are telling you.

 

I'm sitting here typing this post with my 6 month old infant son in my lap. He doesn't even know his father. He hasn't seen his daddy in over a month. Don't let this be you! It is a terrible loss for you, Pink and this precious little baby that is waiting to come into the world!

 

Take Care,

Bridget

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Oh and the intensive thing again...Pink is PREGNANT and can not fly...and the baby is due in December so why don't you ask her how soon she will be willing to leave our baby at home for a week? That should give you your answer on the intensive timing.

 

I am not sure if you are aware but this response you gave came out quite rude. Nor do I understand why you need to apply sarcasm (bolded) to answer a question that has been re-iterated as very important. Are we aware Pink can not fly? yes. That being said do we expect Pink to fly to the intensive? Obviously not. Can you leave your baby home for a week? no and no where has that been communicated as the expectation from anyone here.

 

This is my question. Have you spoken with Joel and Kathy to find out what they have set up for a situation such as yours where there is a young child. You can still go with a baby. I believe their daughter babysits even. If Pink is nursing you might even be able to talk to Joel and Kathy and work out a schedule where Pink can take the time she needs for the baby to nurse her (or him) as needed or pump so J&K's daughter can feed her as needed.

 

I am wondering if you stop and read your posts out loud before you post them? my reason for asking is I have yet to see a post from you where you are not offended and responding to something someone said in a rude and sarcastic way. You will not move forward until you get over your need for people to see you in a good light over your need for people to think highly of your wife. Pink can not write a post on her thread without you coming to yours and dissecting it and writing about how you did this and that and she did this and didn't give you accolades for this and you keep trying but it isn't good enough and yadda yadda blah blah blah.

 

Please recognize that I am trying very hard to stay polite yet I also recognize that something in you needs to change in order for this marriage to move forward. You can not keep defending and explaining YOUR SIDE so that the people here see what YOU feel is accurate. This season you are in is about YOU dying to yourself and your wants. It is about you putting your wife first and making sure that your posts here reflect her beautiful nature and the woman you fell in love with and are in love with. This season is about you getting to a place where you can weep for all the pain you have put Pink through. That is where you are going here.

 

As long as you stay in this defensive cycle that destroys Pink further and puts yourself first you can expect to stay exactly where you are. Actually you can expect to become a divorced man because that is not acceptable behavior and it is moving into abuse. You say that you can not do anything right yet what have you had to say that is good about your wife? Please find one post where you were praising your wife and one post that does not include you defending your rights and your needs and your efforts. Please do this. I am not being facetious here. I am trying to get you to see exactly the cycle you are stuck on and where it is taking you.

 

 

Her list of "I feel loved when...." is about 1% of what it truly should be

 

So what do you feel her 'I feel loved when...' list should be? I am unsure why you feel her list is different than what she is telling you it is. And I am unsure why you feel you have a right to say that her list is 99% not what it should be. Would you post what her list is so we can use it to check in and see how you are doing? And I mean her actual "I feel loved when..." List. Not the 99% more one you feel it should be.

 

Moving down your post...

 

Pinks Birthday. I understand Pink's frustration here. Getting my husband to celebrate my birthday in the past has been hell. Awful. I prayed about our last anniversary for a year just so we could not fight on that day! Can't say we did anything great for it but it was great to not fight. I am believing this year will be better after two years of prayer and a year of communicating how important it is!

 

Plans should have been cemented in well in advance and then Pink would have known not to book anything for that night. All you would have had to say is, "Honey, your birthday is coming up! Don't book anything for that night/weekend as I have something special planned okay?" If those words came out of my husband's mouth to me nothing could make me book something for that time my husband had planned for me and us. All you need to do is communicate. If she asked for money for clothes and both of you don't have enough money for both clothes and her birthday weekend you can talk to her about that and mention that the budget you have for her birthday celebration is $X and then ask her what she would rather do? Find out what is important to her! Don't hear her request for clothes and then assume you need to find a way to do both without communicating that with her!

 

2. Flirting.

 

If you are asking your wife how you can handle something better (this is a good question by the way. Please do not stop asking that, as long as you keep sarcasm and exasperation out of your tone of voice it will go a long way) and she does not have an answer or is unsure my advice would be to immediately excuse yourself and try to call a male helper here from the boards. There are some that will offer that assistance as you need it and do your best to connect with one or two of them here. If you are in a situation where both of you do not know how to handle it and resolve needs to happen immediately then take the time you need to get ahold of someone from here and ask their advice. The helpers here will know how to advise you and help you both move forward. Just make sure you do not call them defensive and annoyed. Call with a humble heart that is teachable and not bent on explaining your side above standing in support of your wife. If you are unable to get ahold of someone right away then in that situation I would remove myself from any contact with the woman and stay in conversation with the men that are there.

 

My response when I see my husband in a situation that makes me wonder is to go over to him immediately and put my hand on his lower back and lean in for a kiss. He then will immediately introduce me as his wife and I shake hands with her and smile. I do recognize that sometimes it is my husband who needs to be recognized and the KEY THING for this scenario is that when I do that my husband smiles at me after we have moved away from the woman and THANKS me with a kiss. It is a rescue and a relief for both of us.

 

My advice to you? In any future situations where there is interaction like that (I would be uncomfortable with another woman even poking my husband in the side) with another woman, smile at the woman, stop and look around for your wife and wave for her to join you and then you can introduce her as your wife and move forward from there.

 

Anyways, I am going to wrap this post up now. Flyboy, you need to stop defending. I would encourage your next few posts to be ONLY about what you have done for Pink. NOT about your response to what she has posted and how what she posts is wrong and you do so much and it is never enough and no one here recognizes the effort you are putting in and we don't get it and yadda yadda. You get the point. Those posts do absolutely nothing for you except for prevent us to be able to accurately speak into your lives as you are stuck in the responder role which is actually your wife's role in this marriage! You are to initiate! You need to stop responding. You will not move forward until you are ready to do so. So now the ball is in your court. Are you ready to move forward from where you are with a humble heart and a teachable heart?

 

From now on, please read every single post that you post out loud so that you might see if you are responding in defensiveness to something someone has said or if you are in the right heart.

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In my prior post I said:

my reason for asking is I have yet to see a post from you where you are not offended and responding to something someone said in a rude and sarcastic way.

 

Just wanted to say that the way you responded here to Giving Hope:

Heather,

Thanks for the advice........

 

was not in offense and not responding negatively. You did well on that response. That is more along the lines of what we are looking for in a reply from you and what will help you. You are teachable here. Good job!

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Thanks Jaya

Pinks post about this morning, I was trying to respond like what she told me to do last week when we were fighting. I gave her distance, she took it as pridefull and wan't happy. So this morningI greeted her with a smile and a good morning, talking to her in a reasonable, loving tone. I wasn't pretending nothing was wrong, I was trying to respond like I understood she wanted the week before.

The rest of the posts Ill have to get back to later...haven't had a chance to read them all.

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Pebbles,

That seemed a little more clear so wanted to say thank you for breaking it down a little. I understand what you are asking me to do, I will pay better attention to my body language. I don't think the problem is when I am doing the tasks, because I am tickled "pink" so to speak that I have something constructive to do towards healing our marriage. The problem arises when after cleaning the kitchen, which is what she asked me to do, she tells me that I don't love her because I do nothing to help keep the house clean. My hands are still wet from doing dishes, and I am doing nothing at all?

So I get frustrated. Then I let that frustration show through in our conversation because I want so badly for her to see that I love her and am trying to show her. Do I want to be cleaning the kitchen? Not a chance, I would rather be sitting on the couch hanging out with her like she later tells me she wanted in the first place.

It's not right for me to react like that, no matter what and I used to be much much better than it is now...I just need to retrain myself to get back to that place in my heart.

At some place eventually, will Pink begin to see the things I'm doing as my heart showing love for her? Right now, she sees everything through hurt, and until that original hurt is addressed, everything I do is going to just add to her hurt, recreating that cycle of pain.

Thanks again for the advice, the way that I look at this is it's like eating a watermelon....you take a big bite, then spit the seeds out before swallowing the good stuff.

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oops I made a mistake in my post! Too bad I can't edit!

 

This:

I do recognize that sometimes it is my husband who needs to be recognized and the KEY THING for this scenario is that when I do that my husband smiles at me after we have moved away from the woman and THANKS me with a kiss. It is a rescue and a relief for both of us.

 

Should be

 

This:

I do recognize that sometimes it is my husband who needs to be rescued and the KEY THING for this scenario is that when I do that my husband smiles at me after we have moved away from the woman and THANKS me with a kiss. It is a rescue and a relief for both of us.

 

 

Bolded word is my mistaken word! hope that makes more sense now! :)

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Really quickly Jaya, I have several times tried to praise Pink for something that she did for me, and I got raked over the coals for it. The non-defensive post however would be a differant story.

The birthday thing, you suggested communicating with her about not being able to afford both clothes AND a great night out.....beleive it or not, I do try to communicate that with Pink quite often...and I do it calmly with a loving heart...but normally it turns into a fight because if I REALLY loved her I would find a way to make it happen and if I were a REAL man like her ex...dad...along those lines.

Maybe I need to figure out a better way to communicate that with her, my normal start to that is..."babe I love you but I can't do both, so we can either do A or we can do B but we can't afford to do both"

Any ideas about how to better approach that?

Also I have asked a couple of times now for date ideas and besides the blanket/park idea which is in the memorie bank for next summer, I need some for the winter.

Just to clarify, as I just hurt Pink with my response to your asking me to find a post that I am praising her....were you actually challenging me to find one, or was that a way to point out that I am not praising her? I took it as that you were challenging me to find a post of the praise, as well as one that I am not defending.

I was trying to answer a question honestly, i.e. admitting that there aren't many (if any) post's that don't include defensiveness as well as that I have tried to praise Pink with mixed results.

The post that I asked to talk to Pink about the intensive was not meant to be offensive, it was meant to put an end to that line of questions so that we could focus on something that was more productive. I apologize for sounding offensive, that wasn't my intention and I'll make a better attempt at "proof reading" my posts. I try to but sometimes just run out of time. Thanks for the heads up.

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I have several times tried to praise Pink for something that she did for me

 

I just want to point out that mainly you want to be praising Pink for who she is not simply for something she did for you. Pink's job as helpmeet is to praise you for what you do. Remember men change from the outside in. You need to do the actions first and then the heart change happens. Women on the other hand change from the inside out. They need the heart affect first AND then the actions follow. That is why it is so important to praise Pink for WHO she is to you rather than for what she has DONE for you. Men typically have such a 'fix it' mindset or an action based mindset that they praise women in the same way they need to be praised to motivate and encourage each other. So to summarize. You praise Pink for who she is to you and she will praise you for what you do for her. Work both in sync with each other and there will be change on both ends but it has GOT to start with you, Flyboy. It can not start with Pink.

 

"babe I love you but I can't do both, so we can either do A or we can do B but we can't afford to do both"

 

Are you aware of what the word BUT does in a sentence? It cancels out everything you say before it. So basically when you say Babe, I love you BUT I can't do both, so we can either do A or we can do B BUT we can't afford to do both this is what has happened. The first BUT Cancelled out the 'I love you' the second BUT cancelled out the 'I can't do both, so we can either do A or we can do B'. What is left? Merely this: "we can't afford to do both" What has your wife heard? You can not afford to both of the things you are discussing. That is where the disappointment comes in. Perhaps wording it something like this would be better.

 

"Babe, I love you and I've been planning your birthday for a while. I have saved $X up to use to bless you with. This is what I was thinking I would do but if you would rather do ____ then that is totally feasible."

 

This way you do not even need to communicate what you can 'afford.'

 

Anyways, I must go to a meeting. I will finish tomorrow.

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FB - I completely agree with what Jaya has said, she is ON IT with what she is saying!

 

I also want to point out that you have grasped a CRUCIAL point today (probably before today, this was just the first time that I saw something along these lines in your posts)!

 

You said:

At some place eventually, will Pink begin to see the things I'm doing as my heart showing love for her? Right now, she sees everything through hurt, and until that original hurt is addressed, everything I do is going to just add to her hurt, recreating that cycle of pain.

 

This is EXACTLY correct - your Pink is HURT, through and through. So was my wife, and I went through a LOT of what you are saying you are frustrated with. You hear her say "You don't ever do X", so you do X, and she says "Why can't you just do M, N, and O?"

 

It will be like this for a while yet, and all you can do is to INITIATE good and positive things every day for her - that will help her heal. As was mentioned previously, make sure that you are saying kind words to her about her - who she is, what makes her special and attractive to you, and the things in her character that you admire. You have to make her feel special and cherished EVERY day, and I believe that the only way to do this is for a man to SPEAK these things to his wife. Doing things will NOT heal a wife - God didn't design in that way...

 

One of the things that I learned at the Intensive (this will be a bit of a SNEAK PEEK for you!) was that a man's mind works differently than a woman's mind. (Stay with me, that was the obvious part).

 

A man thinks in relation to "cause-and-effect" - when I do this, this happens. Very logical and straight-forward - this works great when we are flying helicopters or fixing computers, but not so great when we are trying to relate to our wives.

 

A woman thinks relationally - this is connected to that which is connected to them which are connected to last year which also happened when she was 12. This is a creative and a connective way of thinking - nothing that a woman thinks is NOT related to something else that she thinks which is then also related to 12 other things that she then thinks about, etc.

 

Picture a waffle - that's a man's brain, nice and compartmented and everything separate.

 

Picture a plate of spaghetti - that's a women's brain, everything is connected to everything else. Just try to pull ONE strand of spaghetti out without moving any of the others!

 

Another important point is that a woman feels her emotions like an AVALANCHE because of the "spaghetti" in her head. Because everything is interwoven and connected, she doesn't feel only one thing at a time - a TON of things coming flooding through her mind every time she feels something.

 

So, what's all this mean to you and Pink? Well, because your wife is feeling a lot of hurt right now, her plate of spaghetti is VERY, VERY BIG. When you do something positive, you are likely reminding her of 159 times when you didn't do that, and THAT'S what comes to her mind, along with lots of other things that you didn't do before, most likely not even related to what you did.

 

I hope that this kind of makes sense. You are on the right track, and the key for you will be understanding how Pink is being bombarded by her feelings (and this is NOT something that she can control, but rather just how God made her) and hopefully try to empathize and put yourself in her shoes. As you do this, you will learn how to relate to Pink and her feelings and you will get a better grasp of how your actions in the past have hurt her, and how things you are doing now are "stirring the spaghetti"...

 

HerDensity

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Flyboy,

 

You need to read all of the posts from today, again and again. There is a lot of great advice and direction inside each of them. The only thing that I can add is: start paying attention to how your are responding to everyone outside of Pink. It has become very clear that you respond to everyone in the same manner,Pink included.

 

Your attitude is very abrasive. In your frustration, you are demanding to know the steps instead of asking for the steps. You are asking the same questions over and over. You are getting the same answers over and over. Your attitude and approach to your marriage has failed to this point but you continue to stay the course that did not work.

 

Everyone here is trying to get you to see a NEW approach. Many of the people here helping have walked this path and successfully made it to a great marriage. I personally think you may have to start doing things that make absolutely no sense to you. I think you may have to just do it as the commercial says. It may take you seeing the fruits of something in order to understand them. Early on, I had to take the same route as I am suggesting to you.

 

It is very obvious that you want to make your marriage work. But it is also obvious you can NOT see your old ways of doing things. It is that very thing,your old ways, that is holding you back. This path for a man is about one thing and it is CHANGE. You will have to change so much that no one including yourself will recognize you. The sound of it is quite scary but the reality is very freeing.

 

I don't live with my Beautiful. I don't live with my children. I live alone. I have not been employed since January. I drive a crappy car. I have no money in the bank. My rent is due on Saturday and I have no idea how I am going to pay it. My prospects for a good paying job are not good. All of this to most people would be too much but it's not for me. I have never been happier in my entire life because Jesus Christ lives within me and he will not forsake me.

 

I started this journey over two years ago. During that time I learned how to open my heart and how to lay my life down for my Beautiful. It took the one thing that I wanted to do the least to get here. I did not want to change but thank you God and thank you Jesus, I did. If you don't believe me, my thread is there for your reading pleasure. If I can change,ANYONE can change.

 

God Bless

David

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.were you actually challenging me to find one, or was that a way to point out that I am not praising her? I took it as that you were challenging me to find a post of the praise, as well as one that I am not defending.

I was trying to answer a question honestly, i.e. admitting that there aren't many (if any) post's that don't include defensiveness as well as that I have tried to praise Pink with mixed results.

 

I was doing both of those things Flyboy. Find a post that does NOT contain defensiveness and find one that DOES praise Pink (and not one that is you saying you love her in exasperation). The point of this is not to see IF you can find either of those but to bring to your own awareness just HOW many of your posts are you defending your rights and your entitlement and your efforts and how few actually stop and value your wife and praise her solely for who she is. After you find the posts go back and count just how many times you have posted and see if there is some work that needs to be done. Just another thought.

 

I have not forgot your request for date ideas in winter but I have to go to work now.

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Ok so I did understand you correctly, I caught some heat from Pink because she understood it differantly and felt I was being defensive again.

Early on I was just trying to tell my side of our interactions, trying to see where things went wrong and I came off as trying to trash Pink...I made a point of writing praise reports, trying to do the opposite and show her that I see how amazing she is and wanted to tell the world. Like I said though, the result was exactly opposite, and I got in trouble because I wasn't understanding that this wasn't about her or her actions....so I quit writing about when she does things that make me feel special.

I do try to tell her that she is a wonderfull woman, and maybe i have slacked on that lately...it's rather difficult to find the energy and time to tell someone all the great things when you are in a bad fight...but maybe that would be the best time to tell her. I'll have to try that.

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flyboy, you said:

 

it's rather difficult

 

Yes, it is....and you are called to do the right, yet difficult thing anyway....first. You are the man.

 

It really is the only way for you to heal her, which in turn, heals you from the unfair situation your father dealt you as a child.

 

So simple. All you have to do is listen.

 

Love and truth, peace and forgiveness,

Abigail

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Ok so I did understand you correctly, I caught some heat from Pink because she understood it differantly and felt I was being defensive again.

 

I am not so sure you understood what I was saying, Flyboy. How many times going back in your thread did you see yourself praising Pink for who she IS (NOT for anything she DID for you)? Please go and take account of that. And then please count the number of your posts that had absolutely no praise of Pink in them and had nothing but your own side (you trying to make yourself look right rather than owning your own actions in order to bring healing to your wife). When you have posted the number of posts that contained nothing healing towards your wife please take some time to think about that and think how your wife felt reading those posts and think of how Pink feels knowing you feel that people need to hear your side of the story more than you feel that Pink needs healing. Because that is what the majority of what you have posted boils down to - You feeling the need to defend YOUR side of the story. You feeling the need to defend YOUR motivation and by doing that, leaving Pink to fend for herself and causing her to hurt even more than she already does. When you have began to get a glimpse of the PAIN Pink has felt please come on here and post about that.

 

Early on I was just trying to tell my side of our interactions, trying to see where things went wrong and I came off as trying to trash Pink...I made a point of writing praise reports, trying to do the opposite and show her that I see how amazing she is and wanted to tell the world. Like I said though, the result was exactly opposite, and I got in trouble because I wasn't understanding that this wasn't about her or her actions....so I quit writing about when she does things that make me feel special.

I do try to tell her that she is a wonderfull woman, and maybe i have slacked on that lately...it's rather difficult to find the energy and time to tell someone all the great things when you are in a bad fight...but maybe that would be the best time to tell her. I'll have to try that.

 

Essentially what you are saying here is that early on you were getting involved in he-said/she-said. You might feel it is important for us to see where you are coming from but that really is not the point. If I say something completely innocent to Pink and it hurts her feelings - Even if I did not MEAN to hurt her feelings I do not have a right to excuse what I said by the fact that my intention was NOT to hurt her feelings. I need to immediately OWN the fact that my careless words hurt her and ask her forgiveness of that offense! it does not matter that my heart might have been in the right place and it should not be of utmost importance to me that everyone around me knows my true intentions. The crux of the matter is that Pink's feelings were hurt by me and I need to own my words and repent and ask forgiveness.

 

This is how you need to relate to Pink! It does not matter what you intended! it does not matter if you set out to hurt her intentionally or if it happened by mistake! It matters that you simply own your own behavior and apologize immediately WITHOUT explaining yourself to Pink or to us or to anyone. Can you do this? can you make your future posts about where you are at in bringing healing to your wife. Can you stop the defending your actions and decisions? Are you aware that most of your posts do not contain any words of you owning your wrongs? They just detail 'your view' or your side of the story which does nothing good.

 

Please understand that I mean everything I say in the most polite manner. It is not my intention to offend yet these things need to be said and you need to step up to the plate and bring healing to your wife before it is too late. Take the posts you have read of late (on your whole thread) and start applying what the helpers here are sharing! They have walked through exactly what they are instructing you on so it is not like they are giving blind advice. You just seem to have been so focused on your side of the story and what you think that you are blind to the advice given. Hopefully we see that changing now (your posts have been less defensive) and that change continues to happen and motivate you to bring healing to your wife faster. Like Abigail said, You have to go first. Are you ready to start?

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Flyboy,

 

You asked for help from a man. A man posted to you and you skipped right over it. Then you do the very thing that EVERYONE including your wife has asked you to stop doing. You bring out the defensive card and wave it in our faces. What the heck is it going to take to get you to see what you are doing?

 

There is no way you are THAT blind. If you are then the situation is sadder than I thought. WAKE UP DUDE! Do you want help in the healing of your wife's heart or do you just want a sounding board with the hopes of someone siding with you. I can tell you right now, if it is the later, there is NO chance of your wife's heart being healed. The end result will be a divorce and you having to heal her heart from the other side.

 

If you think you have it hard now buddy, keep this up. I want you to read Cbad"s and Beloved Warrior's threads. I want you to see how the advice is exactly the same as we are giving you. I want you to see what happens to men who Refuse to listen and Refuse to stop playing the defensive card. Both of these men ended up in the exact same spot. That spot is where you are headed. You can talk all you want about anything you want to convince yourself that you are different but you are not.

 

I warned both of these men repeatedly to open up their hearts and listen to what we were telling them. Like you, the did not listen. I spent hours,along with many others, trying to help each of them. They refused to listen. They both lost their wives. I hope and pray some day, when a man who is like you and the other two men, that he WILL listen. I hope and pray we can finally see what it looks like when this type man lays his life down for his wife. I hope and pray for your lovely wife that this man will be you.

 

God Bless

David

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