Up and down, up and down

[Maxine]

Hello Tigger,

 

I'm just catching up. I haven't posted in a couple of days. I am so sorry to hear that you've been ill. Now a new illness with fatigue. I am so sorry.

 

I am praying that Pooh just makes the CHOICE to die, obey Christ and love you to death!!!

[Tigger]

Dear Aunt Pitty,

 

It is so good to hear from you. I hope your moving is going well, to that land of opportunity . As always, I miss hearing from you when you are not here on the boards.

 

POOH is trying to meet the physical needs that I have right now and that is nice, good job POOH!! He said something to me last night that I am still pondering, I think it is a good thought.

 

He suggested that maybe he needed to do all the superficial stuff so that I could get to a place of feeling safe with him. Once I felt safe then I would be able to open up to the deeper stuff. I think, in his loving way, he is trying to figure out how to go deeper with me; which is my heart's desire. He has a really good point, I am not feeling safe yet, so I have a difficult time opening up to him. Until I can open my wounds to him, he can not bring healing to those wounds.

 

Does anyone out there have a take on this. If you did not feel safe, were you able to open up to your spouse?? If you did, how did you do it and where did you draw your reserve from?? I want to get to the healing part. I know POOH is right in this, I do not feel safe yet. He knows he caused this and he knows he has to fix this. I do see him trying to do certain things differently, so I want to give him praise right now here for those efforts.

 

Well that is all from me for now. I am not crying "Uncle" yet, but it is creeping to a different place then we were last week. Which BTW, is very good. Look forward to hearing others take on this situation.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

[Looney_Tunes]

Pooh is right (see, Pooh, you CAN get this! ). Trust is a process. You need to feel safe with small things first.

 

Suppose someone came to your house to visit and lifted 50 bucks from your purse when you weren't looking. They came clean and gave you the money back. You forgave them. However, I'm betting that the next time they visited, you'd make sure your purse wasn't out in plain sight.

 

At some point, if you wanted to get your relationship with this person back to where it had been, you would have to make the decision to trust again. So you'd leave your purse out, but there would most likely only be a few dollars in it. After a few more tries, you might feel safe leaving a 10, then a 20. Eventually, as they proved themselves, you'd stop worrying about it all together, but it would take quite some time.

 

Now imagine that this friend didn't touch any of your money. You got to where you were comfortable leaving your purse in plain sight on the counter with a $100 bill in it. THEN they took your money again. Wham! You are not even right back where you started - you are farther in the hole, because you gave this person another chance and trusted again. It will be a long, long time before you are able to leave your purse unattended around this person.

 

This is where you are with Pooh.

 

So, for now, Pooh is gonna have to be ok with there only being a dollar in the purse.

[Aslan's Child]

Looney, you described that perfectly. I can't add anything to it.

[son-worshipper]

Hi Tigger,

 

My oldest daughter and I have been diagnosed with adrenal fatigue. Chronic illness causes long-term stress, which depletes the body of cortisol. The adrenal glands can shut down, as well as the thyroid, parathyroid, and other glands & hormone-producing tissue/organs. Hypothalmus, pituitary, and adrenal involvement is very common in Lyme disease.

 

Did you say you'd been diagnosed with Lyme? I don't remember, but there seems to be several forum members with a history of Lyme or suspected Lyme disease. GPP?, Joyful50?, Scarlett's boys...

 

About the recent nausea & vomiting....couldn't that just be a side effect of chemotherapy and radiation? Is that symptom gone?

[C2]

Poo:

That was a good letter. You said:

 

I am so sorry that I have not made the internal process of moving my responses from my head to my heart.

 

That is great you recognize that.

 

You also said,

I am working to make you a safe place to come to

.

 

Again, there is both the awareness that you're not there yet but the recognition of how important that is.

 

Tiger:

 

You as usual are right on target. You said,

So much of what I feel like we are not addressing is the stuff deep down inside of me.

 

I know that feeling. When Poo is doing the right thing but you know it is not from the heart, you can't really heal yet. I felt the same way. DW started reading Good Husband Great Marriage by Robert Mark Alter back in Feb. or March before I found Joel & Kathy. That is one of the books J & K offer. So really we had a head start before the intensive. Joel & Kathy provided the breakthrough but the Good H Great M book was our launching point. My point is, we may be just slightly ahead of you two as a result and yes, the intensive was a honeymoon but then the backslide.

 

DW definitely went through the motions at first and I had to let 2 out of 3 things slide. It still hurt. You may have to come from the opposite angle and make sure you address at least 1 out of 3. I could hear the fear in your voice when they called Poo to the phone. You may have to push yourself to bring up the things that hurt you. If you don't you will really prolong or stop the process. Will he likelly guilt you, or ignore you, or make you feel bad if you do, probably.

 

Poo still does not completely get it because men start off clueless. He is starting to get it though because he is right, at first he just has to go through the motions even though he will not feel it. This hurt my feelings a lot when DW just went through the motions but at least it was something.

 

Someone on one of the calls said I should tell DW, "That apology sounds like its from the head and not the heart. I'll accept it for now but I'll be looking for a heartfelt apology in a few days." I did that and it works. I let a few days go by and then I brought it back up. With DW I only had to wait a few days and then bring it back up myself once or twice. He hates it when we rehash an issue days later so now when I say that he usually is able to switch to a heartfelt apology withing minutes or seconds. This shocked me. I didn't think he could do that.

 

That is a very good question about how to deal with the pain when you bring something up and he still does it. I delt with the pain by exploding. J & K's book says men, if you don't listen to your wife's heart, she will explode. That is true. I did. It was my only option at that point.

 

Sometimes I thought I would have a stroke I would get so mad. But for me, the pain of being ignored and put down and belittled was even greater so I was motivated to bring it to his attention. That was my only hope for long term survival. I'm not saying that is good, but DW would not listen when I said things nice or patiently or matter of fact. I often wondered how women who just suffered in silence did that. I cryed at night. I couldn't sleep. I would get up and read and journal and exercise. I walked a lot, late at night, by myself. Not good but I had to get rid of the stress. This forum really helped give me strength. Dory helped me realize it was Ok to have a meltdown. Most people before that just guilted me.

 

You're right, its not always safe to bring things up. Only you know how much you can take but if you wait to be completely safe, you won't make much progress. That is good to get support on the calls. Also, keep bringing things up here on the forum. Thank you again for helping me on mine. I have not posted lately. I have not had much computer time

between work projects etc.

 

About weight. Yes, stress will do that. I have a friend who said she used to cry herself to sleep at night because of the way her husband treated her. She remembers the night she told herself, I am not going to cry anymore, I'm going to eat and eat she did. And it helped. She didn't cry anymore.

 

She didn't have J & K and ended up divorced but then she got healing for her hurts and stopped eating. It's a long story but that's the short of it.

 

You have been on my heart and mind. I'm glad you're feeling better and Poo is making progress. Just remember, he probably wouldn't have made this recent progress if you had not brought issues to the light so keep bringing up the issues you two are going through.

[Looney_Tunes]

Hi Tiggy, my friend. How are you today?

[Tigger]

Looney,

 

I am very hot and trying hard to get back on my feet. We have so many loads of laundry and my kiddos do not self motivate to do their school work. Since I took the fall last week I have not been coming down to watch them do their school work. Well let's say that the house looked like a disaster had hit and my 2nd son had wrecked his computer- again, second time this year. Ugh!!

 

The lab work says that my TSH is too high, which may be the reason I am so hot. I am getting it faxed to my specialist in Ca. and I will wait to hear from her.

 

Marriage wise it is a mixed bag. I was ready to murder him when I came down stairs yesterday, of course that would have had to happen later because he was not here and I went off like a mad woman cleaning.

 

He apologized when he got home. I just can't figure out why he just doews not see these things, without someone (me) always having to point them out to him. Anyone have suggestions.

 

Speaking of murder, is there a long list of those wanting to kill Noah, or is there still time to get my name on the list !! I wish I could have reached through the phone on Sunday night had twapped him over the head with something hard. Maybe he needs to go to another intensive and maybe that wouldn't help. I suggest you take him to Dory's party/BBQ, then just string him up like a pinata. I am sure you would have enough willing participants, .

 

Well I need to check on dinner. Thanks for checking on me, love you sister and have been keeping you in my prayers. Wish I could give you some "feel good" potion, but I guess only Noah could truly do that. He could give it to you by deciding one way or the other, either could bring healing and closure for you.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

[Maxine]

Tigger, where are you? I miss you. Come back and let us know how you're doing. I am sad to think that your absence means NOT GOOD things are going on in your life right now. Please let me (us) know how you are doing. Love you lots .

[Aslan's Child]

I second that. Where are you, bouncy friend?

[Tigger]

Hello sweet ladies,

 

Thank you for checking on me. I feel like I am drowning, but just barely keeping my head above water. I was going to get on the forum today, but when I came up to my computer, the bed caught me first. I slept for 3 hours and still could not completely wake up when POOH came in, after work. I am just so exhausted, both physically and emotionally. Well I am trying to listen to the call again, though my mind is kind of mush. Thanks for caring.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

[Eeyore]

Tigger,

 

I have been thinking about you and wondering how you are. I am sorry that you feel like you are drowning! Has Pooh stepped up at all?

 

Please keep us posted on things. I will continue to pray for you and your family.

[Maxine]

I feel like I am drowning, but just barely keeping my head above water.

 

I am not kidding, if I lived near you, I'd come and take you all away (except Pooh, of course). He is so disappointing. Very disappointing.

 

Praying for you and heading over to Pooh's string.

[Maxine]

You are very missed . I hope I hear you on the call tonight. I am so sorry that Pooh isn't healing your heart. Have you at least been able to get a breathe of air?

[Tigger]

Hello there my friends,

 

I appreciate that you have come to check on me. I am so very, very sad. I feel like the walls are closing in around me. I want to cry but do not seem able to let myself. So much is happening and not happening, that I do not even know where to begin. I am just feeling really sad. I have no energy and seem unable to form a thought. My thinking is so unclear that even typing is stressing and really seems to be over taxing my brain.

 

I had another dream about POOH leaving. I know Joel really jumped on this a few phone calls ago. Last night POOH did not pray what Joel had told him to and I had another nightmare that POOH was leaving me. I reached for him and he was not in bed; needless to say... that just sent me over the edge. I was shaking so bad in the bathroom that I could not hold myself upright.

 

I am not sure the not praying was the only thing that caused me to be fearful; yes I know the acronym for F.E.A.R., but who said dreams are real---> Though they sure feel real when you are living through them.

 

POOH told me yesterday that he is having a hard time not reverting back to his old ways because of the lack of intimacy between us. I hope this is not too much info.; maybe I should start a string in the private woman's section. Well this was on our way to the pre-surgical visit for our baby- the 11 month old. It was not a great time to talk, but then again, it was not a bad time as we did not have the older children with us at the time.

 

I am feeling an on going hurt from him. He is wanting to be intimate and I am so in a shell of protection that I am just not there. He has back slidden (is that such a word??). He is not reading and/or posting. He has not done the home work from over 2 weeks ago. When I mention that he has things to do, he acts like he is clueless; and YES I have told him about finishing the work. I don't want to be a mother or someone who is "bugging" him to do this. He is suppose to voluntarily write the '100 things he has done to hurt me' letter. He even has it outlined by AC in a post to him.

 

He asked this morning if Looney had ever sent that cattle prod?? He was looking for it for our children. POOH just came in so I am a bit off with my train of thought right now.

 

So back to Looney's cattle prod. My response to him was that he should know if it had arrived... because Looney would have had it aimed straight at him. I got no response. He thinks that the children should act a certain way, but that he is not required to attain the same level. I often think that he expects more from them then he does of himself; he wants them to act like mature adults, though he does not need to do the same thing.

 

I feel like I am sounding caustic, I am sorry for doing that to you women; I know you all have enough problems, that you face, all on your own. I wish I was stronger, but I am just so worn down right now.

 

Some of you have sent messages asking where I was, well this is part of where I am. It is not a good place. I wish I could say I was in happy-ville, but sadly I am not.

 

POOH keeps saying he needs me to tell him more. How do I do that???? I feel that I am slain open and bleeding already. Why can't I make him understand. I feel like such a failure, as I can not seem to give him the information that he feels that he needs to be able to bring me healing. If I had all the answers I would just do it myself, but I can't, that is why GOD gave me him (POOH).

 

I found this ministry at the beginning of October 2007, so nearly 2 years ago; why can't I be more successful at doing this, by now?? WHY??

 

I am so tired of failing and not being worth the work/effort. How can I get things going... besides Looney's cattle prod... which BTW... I do not have . I am not sure if the afore mentioned cattle prod is MIA, or if one of you other lovely ladies is using it to get your 'clueless' guy moving.

 

Hope that ya'll have some encouraging advise. I could use the lift. I know that writing has really lifted my spirits, because... I know ya'll are here for me. You wonder forum friends are such a strong link- (read) life line. I sometimes feel that I can count on you more then anyone else in my life. Well before I get all maudlin, I will sign off.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

[Kay]

Hi Tigger,

 

I am so sorry that your Pooh is not healing your heart like he should be. Please don't blame yourself. This is NOT your fault! You ARE worth it, and your husband is the one who is not obeying God's plan for your Marriage. Even without you as a help-meet, Pooh should be stepping it up and doing what it takes. There are so many men who are trying to win their wife's heart back, who have wives that are NOT on board with this Ministry. So, you really need to give yourself a break, here. God knows your heart, and we know that you have been trying.

 

The only advice I have for you is to detach from Pooh, until he tries again. Don't lift a finger for him. Just take care of yourself the best you can and continue to pray to God for healing! God CAN heal you without your husband, and unfortunately, until he decides to do this, there isn't much else you can do. Again, pushing isn't working.

 

Have you gone dark on him, within your home? Has anyone given you this advice? I'm sorry that I haven't kept up. I should have. I am guessing that there have been men that have been working with your Pooh. Perhaps, they can "bomb" him with a wake-up call?

 

Know that I am praying for you............ You ARE worth it, and you ARE loved by God. He will NEVER forsake you. YOU are his precious child and he loves you so much, as we all do.

 

Continuing to pray for you, hon. Hang in there, okay?

Kay

[Maxine]

I had another dream about POOH leaving. I know Joel really jumped on this a few phone calls ago. Last night POOH did not pray what Joel had told him to and I had another nightmare that POOH was leaving me. I reached for him and he was not in bed; needless to say... that just sent me over the edge. I was shaking so bad in the bathroom that I could not hold myself upright.

Sweet Tigger, I am so sad you're living this life in this fear. Pooh is commanded by God to heal you and to make this situation nonexistent. Pooh is choosing to fight God. His choice to NOT heal your heart is rebellion against God. He is hurting you deeply as he is running from God.

 

So, silly, huh? How a man believes he can put a blanket over his head and God will be confused and not know where the man is , but Tigger, that is what Pooh is doing.

 

I agree with Kay:

Don't lift a finger for him. Just take care of yourself the best you can and continue to pray to God for healing! God CAN heal you without your husband, and unfortunately, until he decides to do this, there isn't much else you can do.

 

Have you gone dark on him, within your home

You need to go dark.

[Eeyore]

Oh Tigger, I am so sad for you. I wish that I had the perfect words to say to make you feel better. My heart breaks.

 

I will continue to pray that God wraps His arms around you and that you can feel it in a real, tangible way. You are SO precious. You are precious no matter where you are, no matter what you feel, and no matter how your husband is treating you. God is the husband to the husband-less. He is watching over you and is loving you. Please don't forget that.

 

You must remember that Pooh's issues are HIS. I know that it is hard not to take it as a rejection of who you are. But you are precious!! If Pooh does not recognize that, it does not change what an amazing, loving, beautiful daughter of the King you are!!

 

My only advice that I have for you is to rest. Rest in God's loving arms. Rest, rest, rest!! Cuddle with your children. Read to them if you are able. Love them. And let God's love seep into your heart.

 

Sending you prayers and hugs, dear sister.

[C2]

Tiger:

 

I feel for you. Of course you don't want to be close. Pooh has not done his homework. If he was meeting your emotional needs and letting you know how beautiful you are consistently you would be adoring him right now.

 

When DW did not do his homework at the very beginning I was too nice, at first. I felt sorry for him because he has to get up at 5a.m. and earlier every night and often gets very little sleep. So I let slide the 10 minutes of reading a night until all of a sudden one weekend he wasn't treating me very nice. So then I insisted he sit down and read all at one time and make up for the time he missed. I felt awful, mean, and demanding at first but this ministry gave me the strength to hold him accountable. It felt wrong but I knew it was right. It hurt me to do it but I'm so glad I did. In two hours time he went from antagonizing and ignoring me to saying kind and loving things.

 

If he made me do that all the time it would wear me out. Luckily for me DW is highly motivated and was always an A student so I can't take all the credit but I did have to use a cattle prod at first. I can only imagine with your health issues how hard this must be for you.

 

Next thing I did was I struck up a deal. I asked him ahead of time if I didn't like the way he was treating me if instead of arguing for hours he would be willing to stop, call a time out, and read the book for 10 minutes. He said yes. So that is what we did for a while. He cooperated and it helped. Sometimes he would come back with a total change in attitude after 10 minutes. It did not work every time but it did work more than 50 per cent of the time. All this was before we went to the intensive. It took some of the pressure off me and onto him where it should be.

Pooh is clueless and he will stay in that place if he does not do his homework. As intelligent as my DW is, he does not seem to be able to retain this information without a lot of repetition. He is very good now about doing his homework regularly, almost every single night for at least 10 minutes. If it were not for that, we wouldn't have a chance.

 

Pooh has asked for a BIG BRICK so give it to him. Do not let him out of the homework no matter how tired he is by the end of the day.

 

I hope you get your strength back soon. Keep us posted.

[pooh]

Tigger

 

You are not the problem!!! I am the problem. You are wonderful!!!!!

I love you!!! I am sorry that I have not been what you have needed. I hope you are resting well. I miss you!!!

 

Love Pooh

[C2]

Pooh:

 

That was a good start. If you would add one more sentence to your post here that would help. I am going to ________________ (fill in the blank). It needs to be specific.

 

Not something vague like be there for you. Something specific like read the book for 10 minutes every night or when I hear the children fighting I will go downstairs and deal with it immediately. Whatever you fill in the blank with must be something specific TIGER has requested.

 

And what about not praying the prayer Joel asked you to? Would you go to Tiger and apologize and then pray that prayer? Or maybe you have already done that. If so, would you come back and let us know? We all want you to flourish.

 

Tiger needs you. You are her source of life, source of strength. Her power supply has been taken away and she could barely stand upright in the bathroom. She needs you.

 

Tiger:

 

Do you realize how articulate you are? I love reading your posts and hearing you on the calls because you are so clear and honest and refreshing. Even when you are hurting you are thinking about other people. Pooh is so very lucky to have you. I think he knows that. He needs to tell you that every time he thinks it and be specific. I am so lucky to have you because you ________.

[Tigger]

Hello C2, Eeyore, and all of you others out there,

 

I started posting on another string and realized that I really should put this on my own string. Here is what I started:

I am having phone problems, so have not been on the calls. POOH is gone, he is in New Mexico; so without a good phone I have not been hearing from him.

 

I am feeling so lost and confused. I got some good news from the Neuro Ophthalmologist on Thursday, but then I got equally BAD news. I think I was so hoping that I would be released to be able to be a bit more independent, now I am just such a burden to everyone who knows me. POOH battled all weekend to help me get past such a bad slump. He kept telling me I am "worthy", but he does not understand what I am feeling.

 

I am also battling some other issues. I am so fatigued I can barely move and on top of that I have been on an elimination plan for wheat and sugar, which is a struggle. While I have been doing this I keep gaining weight. POOH has tried to be supportive, but he is at a loss for what to say.

 

He sees that I do not over eat, he was with me all day Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; he was with me and/or prepared all of my meals and I did not over eat; I gained more weight. I am just really down in the dumps. I feel under attach, like satan is gunning for me.

 

I am weary and overwhelmed for the first time this year. I have calculated just how much has happened to me this year and I have not buckled, but now I feel like I am down for the count. Why is this, seemingly minor stuff, crippling me.

 

Please encouragement needed, badly.

 

BLessings,

 

Tigger

[Aslan's Child]

Oh, Sweetie, I'm so sorry for all you are still trying to overcome. I don't know what I can say to help you feel better.

 

Father, my friend is hurting. Only You can bring her comfort and healing. Please surround her and her family with a hedge of protection the enemy cannot penetrate. Bind any spirits that are plaguing this family, and send them back to the pit from whence they came. Please send angels to help her and comfort her and encourage her. In Jesus' name!

 

Tigger, you are not a burden. Are children a burden? Are aging parents a burden? Are the foster children you have cared for a burden? Love erases all semblance of burden. Love gives because that is its' very nature. Pooh loves you, even though he's not so great at loving you the way you need to be loved, he loves you.

 

We are blessed to know you. We love you. Your children love you. God loves you, and God made you just as you are. Did you know that when we put ourselves down, we are basically telling God that He messed up when He made us? God showed me that last year. Who am I to say God messed up? How dare I? Yikes! It's still a struggle not to get into that pit of self-depreciation. I know how hard it is, and just this weekend, I was in that pit and couldn't pull myself out. Even LO couldn't figure out how to save me. I had to wait for it to pass. It's like a cloud descended on me, and no matter how hard I tried, I could not get free. But it lifted, and the sun is shining again.

 

You have been beaten up over and over and over again by life. You are physically and emotionally drained, and you have every reason to be, but I believe when we accept where we're at, and give ourselves some grace, we start to come out of it. It's a looooong slooooow process, but you can't stay down forever, right? The good thing about hitting bottom is that the only way left to go is up.

 

I hope you feel better and that Pooh is able to come home soon. Are you reading the Daily Devtionals? They are awesome for helping combat those hopeless feelings. God bless you, my friend.

[C2]

Tiger:

 

Have you ever heard of Hydrotherapy or Colonics? It is an amazing thing for your immune system. Totally natural. You can look it up on line and most towns will have someone listed in the yellow pages. The medical profession is totally ignorant of it. All the medical field is trained to do is cut it out or medicated it.

 

 

 

DW, myself, and his mom all had it done with amazing results. If you are at all interested after you reserch it let me know and I can fill you in on more of the details. My son is coming down in a couple of weeks to have it done. Really simple, painless, and oh so cleansing and good for your overall health.

 

The hydrotherapy might be able to help with the eating very little yet gaining weight problem

 

Is it your cell phone not working or a house line? My son who is a techy told me to call the cell phone company. New towers in the area may mean they need to update the sim card. My phone had poor reception yesterday. I'm hoping its just a passing thing but I've never had them update anything and our phones are very old.

 

I am so praying for your comfort and health.

[Looney_Tunes]

Tigger, dear, I'm sorry you're having such a bad week. I wish there was something I could say to make it better. I wish I lived closer so there was something I could actually DO.

 

Just out of curiosity - how do you manage when Pooh is out of town? You are obviously able to keep things going without him there. Do you have someone else to help you, or do you just muddle through as best you can?

 

I'm asking because I'm very afraid that Pooh is never going to take this seriously without a HUGE wake up call.