Divorce Rather Than Participate Here

[Menomama]

This topic started in the Private women's section.

 

Congratulations on the marriage moving forward. What a great story so far and the best is yet to come! J and K

 

 

Hello Everyone, I'm new here but at the end of my 37 year. marriage rope. What makes things so hard to describe and pinpoint is that my husband is passive and withdraws every time I ask for anything emotionally but he does nice things for me and is stable. He isn't an adulterer and is always home. I know he's arrested in development from not bonding to his parents or anyone, for that matter. I left the house today and asked my husband to call Joel, pre-register for an intensive in Nov. and read the first book, which I e-mailed to him.

 

We have tried counseling several times. The last time the counselor said he was totally emotionallly disconnected from me. I have been going from passivity, being shut down and numb emotionally, to becoming enraged. I thought my job was to be submissive, treat him like a king and be a servant. If I did all those things, he would open up to me emotionally and treat me like a queen, NOT!!!! It doesn't work. If I wasn't a strong Christian, and an educated woman i would have long ago become overwhelmed with lonliness and despair.

 

My husband and I do not argue or yell. People think we have a great marriage. I have NOT found my voice and just swallow all my longings because when I open my heart to him, he just listens, then says nothing more and, nothing changes. Someone once asked me why I keep going to a dry well for a water. Recently I labored over a loooooooong letter, trying to be transparent. All he said was, "How long did it take for you to write that?" I was devestated. That is a difficult place for a mature Christian woman to be. I was determined to "take up the cross" stay married, for the sake of my children and grandchildren, and love my husband. I thought that if I contined to be kind, loving, sexually available and not demanding, he would lower his defenses, begin helping me and opon to me emotionally. Well this never happened.

 

I went to another counselor, recommended by New Life Ministries, and he is a good Christian therapist. He says the reason I stayed so long and allowed this behavior to continue, was rooted in my arrested development and childhood rejection from my parents. I do believe he might be at least partially correct, but I honestly have tried in the past to make some changes, but always met with anger and resistence, to the point that I always "caved" and gave in. This counselor feels I have ENABLED my husband.

 

I was always believed I should submit, pray, fast and take up the cross and lose my life. I thought I would have to be lonely for the rest of my life and trust God to be my Husband, as He says in the book of Isaiah.

I'm not sure where all of this will lead this time but at my age, considering the last 20 years I have left, I do not want to finish my life out the way it has been going. Perhaps I have needed to do something for a long time but whenever I tried, the ante was always upped and, because things escalated and I was more miserable, I always gave in and relented.

 

Well I guess that's about all I have for now. I plan to get on the call tonight and this week, as I'm not home right now. My husband has tried to call me several times today but I haven't answered the calls.

 

Thanks so much for your support and prayers. God bless.

[Looney_Tunes]

Hello and welcome! We're glad you found us.

 

Unfortunately these passive guys usually need a good kick in the pants to wake them up, which you've provided by leaving the house. Hopefully he'll read the books, smell the coffee, and realize that he needs to do something.

 

If not, at least you're out from under a marriage that's going to slowly starve you to death. One way or the other, it's going to get better.

 

Hang in there. We'll walk you through it.

[Bridget]

Hi Menomamma,

 

I'm listening to you on the call right.

 

I want to commend you for being such a strong, brave woman for leaving your home and putting your foot down with your passive husband.

 

I know that you do not want divorce, but you also do not want to waste the next 20 years of your marriage and life, either. You and your husband have much to do for the Lord in that time, and you are helping your husband grow up so that he can do those things that God wants him to do.

 

Yes, your final counselor may have it right...that your arrestedness did enable your husband...as mine did with my husband. But, now you know the truth, and you are encouraging your husband to learn the truth, too!

 

You are doing your God given job as a helpmeet to your husband by doing this.

 

So, I am encouraging you, and standing with you right now before God and claiming that you WILL NOT BE DIVORCED! You will have an outrageously happy marriage!

 

The road may be rocky at times on the way, but God will bless you with one!

 

Hang in there, and just rest in your hotel room...as much as you can!

 

Take Care,

Bridget

[Purple]

Praying for you. Glad you're here.

[Menomama]

Hello, I'm still away from home. I have not heard anything from my husband today. I e-mailed him a letter I composed a couple of weeks ago but received no response. I plan to join in on the call tonight at least to listen, and share if there is time. I read more of the first book and am now on ch. 16. I believe the Lord can do anything but my husband has been so stubborn for so many years, it is difficult to believe anything can be different. We have been married for 37 years. I was saved in l972 and learned that wives are to submit and love their husbands and God would change their hearts and bring them to maturity. I'm an educated woman with a Master's degree and feel as though I was deceived all these years and that there were many things I could have done to change our situation. Unfortunately I was too passive and didn't believe it was right to stand up to my husband's behaviors toward me. I can see I have been part of his not growing. I pray he will want more for us and his life as well. It is very difficult to be here away from my home, dealing with all of these feelings.

 

Thanks to all who are here.

[Sister B]

Hey you Menoamam!

 

You are in a great place when it comes to learning how to find your voice and be a different kind of stander! There are alot of wise people here. You can exhale abit now sister.

 

[Maxine]

Hello Menomama,

 

I heard you on the call and you're doing great, being very strong and bringing encouragement to many hurting ladies, through your strength. I know you're sad that your husband didn't respond to your email. Stay strong, trust God through Joel and Kathy's Ministry. Ask tonight about whether to be emailing him or not.

 

I'll be on the call tonight, too. Looking forward to hearing you .

[melandash]

As a fellow sojourner on the journey to healing with or without our husbands, welcome! May you find joy and peace as God's Truth sets you free from the years of sorrow.

 

I, too, am educated and have done everything to heal myself with God's provision, but we have been fed death in our marriages, so our hope and our hearts have died. I do hope that your husband will get his wake up call by this brave act of leaving him, but if he doesn't, you have 20 fantastic years to enjoy life in the palm of His hand!!!

 

I am so glad God led you to us!

Mel

[Maxine]

Hello M,

 

Yesterday at 6pm you posted:

I have not heard anything from my husband today. I e-mailed him a letter I composed a couple of weeks ago but received no response.

Have you heard from him yet? Any response to your letter?

[Menomama]

Hi Everyone. thanks for your responses and encouragement. He e-mailed me and said it would cost too much $2000, plus we would have to be in the same room and if it didn't work, we would have wasted $2000. He also said he was going to quit counseling if I didn't think it was working. (We have been seeing a counselor separately he 2x, me 5x. This counselor is on board for me leaving and understands what my husband has been doing to me all these years.)

 

He also said he didn't think HE would get much out of it at this time. We would have to put it on a credit card, which I don't like but when you think of the st of your life, I think it's just an excuse. He said I'm forcing this. I suppose he's right. I AM forcing this. I am not saying anything to him, except to make reservations, call Joel and read the book.

 

I guess Joel won't be available until Monday because he and Kathy are leading an Intensive tonight and thru the week-end. He said that since I make contact with Joel, I can continue to communicate with him. I guess he's saying he won't be calling.

 

I told him there are suite rooms with pull-out couches. he's just making excuses and doesn't' want to spend the money. I'm sure he thinks nothing will change and we will be wasting money.

 

As of now, he's worried about me being away and spending money on a hotel. He doesn't know when I'll be coming back because I haven't told him.

[MaryJane]

He said I'm forcing this. I suppose he's right. I AM forcing this. I am not saying anything to him, except to make reservations, call Joel and read the book.

 

Yes, you are forcing him -- which is absolutely necessary.

 

I guess Joel won't be available until Monday because he and Kathy are leading an Intensive tonight and thru the week-end. He said that since I make contact with Joel, I can continue to communicate with him.

 

"Generous" of him...

 

I guess he's saying he won't be calling.

 

But you are going to be "dark" until he does what you said above.

 

I told him there are suite rooms with pull-out couches. he's just making excuses and doesn't' want to spend the money. I'm sure he thinks nothing will change and we will be wasting money.

 

At this point it doesn't matter what he thinks.

 

As of now, he's worried about me being away and spending money on a hotel. He doesn't know when I'll be coming back because I haven't told him.

 

GOOD!

 

 

I think you're doing fine.

 

God bless you.

[Menomama]

He says I'm "acting out" and it doesn't help him when I "act out" like this.

 

He said he doesn't want to spend money when I'm acting like this and that it would cost $2000. I believe the flight would be about $500. Intensive $500, Hotel $500 plus food. How much did it cost most of you?

 

He is not used to me taking a stand on anything. I'm not either.

[dory]

Hi Menomama,

He isn't an adulterer and is always home.

 

First off, this isn't true according to Matt 5:27. And adultery in ANY form inhibits the bond between husband and wife. If he has had any immorality in his life, then he has sinned against himself. being the other half of his one flesh arrangement, then he has also sinned against you as well as his own body, the temple of the H.S. (1 cor 6). So let's stop saying he isn't an adulterer, because he is/was. An adulterer can't and won't bond with their bride... period. And until he confesses and repents of this, and draws upon the strength of Christ to truly turn away, seeing it as death to his soul, there will be no change in your marriage.

 

He won't see the need to do the above UNTIL he HAS to. A man must feel the pain of NOT changing to be greater than the pain of changing before he will do it. And yes, his arrestedness WILL up the ante in this chess match until he talks to Joel and Joel might be able to talk some sense into him. Joel is anointed in being able to reach these guys - at least enough to "get their ear" so-to-speak. But he won't even give Joel the time of day until YOU make it clear - one way or another - that things will get very bleak if he doesn't. Joel can mentor him, , but you must motivate him. And unfortunately, the only motivator that will work right now is pain.

 

He probably has a trace on your credit card to know where you are if you haven't told him. And just to bide your time and line up your ducks, you might want to check further into that efficiency apt.

 

We can't Do these actions and EXPECT change - only God can help them change. But we can be REAL with our feelings enough to set the record straight to the true facts of life: "I can't move back with you and live the rest of my life like we did. SOMETHING must change and you need to read these books and sign us up for this intensive. This IS the fork in the road, or i am done living like this."

[MaryJane]

He says I'm "acting out" and it doesn't help him when I "act out" like this.

 

It will help him in the end.

 

He said he doesn't want to spend money when I'm acting like this and that it would cost $2000.

 

You're not worth even $2000 to him?

 

I believe the flight would be about $500. Intensive $500, Hotel $500 plus food. How much did it cost most of you?

 

I don't know and I didn't care. It was worth every penny!

 

He is not used to me taking a stand on anything. I'm not either.

 

It's a new day for you both.

 

Please keep up the good work, Menomamma! You are actually doing your husband a favour. He is going to be learning how to grow up and how to become a Christian husband!

 

I have a very hard time, myself, standing firm for change in my marriage. However, I'm 62 and I'm NOT living the rest of my life in some sort of marital prison camp!

 

I'm glad you're not either.

 

Be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might.

[dory]

Amen MJ.

 

$2000 is a drop in the bucket (especially as compared to other marriage "seminars"), and this is NOT a "marriage shot-in-the arm retreat". This is a LIFESTYLE change. Aren't you worth $2000? I think you are worth 10000000000000 TIMES that!

 

A divorce is FAR more costly - and you will make sure of that!

[Menomama]

Hi Everyone, I'll be on the call tonight and hope to get some help but I'm sitting here in this hotel room wondering how to be when I get home.

 

I spoke to Joel, who said I should kick my husband out if he won't comply with reading, attending the Intensive, etc. but I know he will refuse to leave. It has always been me leaving when things got horribly uncomfortable, which has only been a couple of times in 37 yrs. Joel said I should make him very uncomfortable being there. This just isn't my personality, as I'm more laid back than that I'm not the screaming, yelling type. Since my husband's passive pattern is withdrawl, just withdrawing from him, won't make much of an impact either, because that's his mode, already. Any comments of ideas on this will help. I'm still reading the first book; almost done and have started the second as well. I have asked my husband to read, call Joel and make a reservation for the Intensive, all of which he has done nothing, so far. I've been gone since Monday.

 

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my thread. You are helping and encouraging me so much as I spend these days here.

 

Also, do Joel and Kathy still lead the Thurs. phone mentoring call, when they are doing an Intensive (as they are tonight?)

 

God bless...............

[Looney_Tunes]

Someone else usually moderates the Thursday call when J&K are in an intensive, although they will often pop on for a bit later in the evening.

 

As far as what to do with your husband, making him uncomfortable usually means what we call "going dark" in the home. You don't speak to him unless necessary. You don't cook his meals, clean the house, or do his laundry. You don't run his errands. You don't take his phone messages. You don't let him sleep in the bedroom.

 

You know your husband best - obviously if this wouldn't bother him, then it's not the right approach. Your choices then would be to stay gone (which we don't usually recommend, but sometimes it's what you have to do), or go back home, go dark, and quietly leave the divorce papers on the front seat of his car.

 

As Joel said, though, we obviously want to give your husband the chance to do this. He might surprise you.

[dory]

I jusr read this on another string written by JOel and it made me think of you. A God nudge?

 

God does miracles with the book - so give it to him to read, ask him to read it, follow up by asking him if he has read it and proceed accordingly. If he refuses to read, in light of the letter below, you will probably be best served going the legal separation (to get his attention) and then divorce if he still will not read and begin the process to recovery. Personally, our suggestion might be to go straight to divorce. A re-marriage is easy and why not have a "brand new" marriage later if he changes instead of an extension of the current misery?

[MaryJane]

How is it going, Menomama?

[Menomama]

Hello everyone. I am still out of the house. Please read my string. I think Dory put it on here. This is the last e-mail my husband sent me after cleaning out all our bank accounts yesterday. I e-mailed him and demanded he put my check back in there and half of what was there, as well. This is what he wrote:

 

I did not steal your money. You refused to allow me access when I asked nicely. (This isn't true as he had a debit card just like me, all the time. I never took any money out of the bank escept for two meals) I stayed at a hotel for 5 nights just to get away but used case that my dad gave me.)

 

I sent a second e-mail asking again necely. You didn't reply. You scare me with your behavior. However, I will be fair and place your check amount back into the acct. today.

 

You need to know that I will not make reservations to go with you to FL. You also need to know that I did read both books twice and have some real concerns regarding that ministry as well as Paul Hegstrom.

 

You don't need to return home. You would only want to fight or give me the silent treatment. I doubt you can talk with me in a reasonable way. However, if you want to come home and have a mature discussion I would be glad to talk.

 

You have to understand that I do love you but actions of walking out, demanding that I read those books and go to the conference is unreasonable. My response was to protect myself and I will do so because you are spiralling out of control.

 

You have placed in my mind a doubt that you are not to be trusted. Unfortunately this is sad. Defferences we have but we also had some very positive things going for us. (All his way-no concern for my feelings or needs)!

 

I told Charis and Ben (our children) because they needed to know for family events and planning for the holiday that I didn't think you would be back by then. I probably made a mistake on telling them but I felt they should know and making plans for (Ethan our grandson).

 

Sad, very sad you brought this to this level. I trust the call in conference sppnsored by this ministry is supporting your behavior. The books do encourage you to leave and see if I come back crawling and begging your forgiveness.

 

You need to apologize for your behavior and the turmoil you have unleashed. When you can do that I will apologize for not being sensitive to your needs.

 

It's up to you to begin afresh or continue in with this current set of events that will not lead to a positive outcome. The books are firm that I need to break my neck to win you back and to crawl at your feet. I will not lose my dignity as a person nor will I just take your negative actions and ignore them.

 

This is harsh for me to have to say that to you but I have to tell you my feelings how you are effecting me. Just like you want to tell me yours. (I have never been asked or given the chance-as I'm still not allowed to do here, once again) You need to give up the Joel idea of blowing the husbands brains out tith belittlement and coercion.

 

Stop living as a victim and embrace the ideas we had mutually agreed to go to counseling. That is a positive step in the right direction, as Kaghy states in the book, "its a baby step and you have to look at as a plus." (I need to look this one up in its context. I'm sure she didn't mean in the condition things are here and with his attitude toward me).

 

I miss you but I don't miss the drama and your bitterness towards me. (I have never said bitter words toward him. Only that he is hurting me and won't listen to my heart of needs and try to be sensitive to them.) And by the way, THE LAST SENTENCE IS NOT TO BE INTERPRETED AS ME LOOKING FOR SYMPATHY. PW

 

I need some feedback on this.

 

 

 

Thank you and God bless.

 

Menomama

[Enjoying the sunshine]

Memomama,

 

Your husband is trying to scare you into accepting his abusive ways, and blaming you in front of your children. He doesn't want to have to give up his selfishness, and so he is trying to stand firm.

 

Your only position is to make the choice to either stand firm, and just keep telling him to call Joel, OR for HIM to get on the forum, and ask one of the men to call him and talk it out. Or you choose to go home, thus giving Him all the power and control. It really would have been better had you had him leave, but I totally understand how that is not possible in some situations.

 

Does he claim to be a spirit filled Christian? If so, you can simply say to him, I am tired of trying to figure out our own way - I want to do things God's way. And I believe that this IS God's way. If he is unwilling to follow God, then the failure of your marriage is on HIS shoulders, NOT yours. I am sure, like most women, you have been trying to "fix" your marriage all your life together. Most of us have. It will take HIM stepping into his God given role, the way GOD MEANS for him to be in it.

 

So, you have to decide whether you want to remain in the oppressive environment (and go back home) or if you want to stand firm in your desire for a godly, loving marriage.

 

You are a much stronger woman than I see myself as - 37 years is a LONG TIME to stay in an unhappy marriage!

 

Have you gotten a phone call from any of the helpers yet?

[Menomama]

I haven't heard from anyone or received a reply to my last post here. My husband says he's going to be on the call tonight, so we'll see how it goes. Please pray for us. Menomama and Menopapa.

 

Blessings,

 

Menomama

[Sister B]

Sweet Mama! Prayers will be covering you this evening and I'm glad he has agreed to be on the call.

 

His words sound like so many others . . . it's sad but there is hope here. It's hard for a man to see this . . . maybe they will understand more why Jesus wept and sweated blood the night before He gave His life for us. These guys don't realize that they ARE the bride of Christ and He died that death for them . . . now it is their turn. And we respond, and it is beautiful . . .

 

You are beautiful despite the way you must feel right now . . . you are in a wonderful place here. Stay strong sister!

[Joanna means gift]

Welcome menomama! I am joanna means gift and you can read my thread, but just to tell you, my husband has sent many emails with a similar sentiment over my 8 months apart from him. And now people in real life (here in my city) believe me, because they cannot hold it in. Just keep praying and drawing close to the Lover of your Soul and He will direct your path.

 

Praying for you,

Elisabeth

[dory]

Taking her paycheck could probably be considered illegal! It's certainly far from Christian! She needs a lawyer -- FAST!

 

If she has time, she could check out Family Law for her state, on the web.

 

She's probably called Joel by now. He'd talk to her husband, I expect, even if he IS in an intensive.

 

My oh my. I'm feeling up in arms!

 

I'd like to write her but can't use the private string yet, right?

 

I'd REALLY like to know where she's at in this, now that it's the middle of the day.

 

Her string is probably safe - her hubby isn't a computer hacker like some of the others.