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Your right Wen ipray constantly God will show me what needs changed in my heart and take the skales off my eyes.My very top priority now is to become who God has called me to be .I resolve not to go back where i was .What a miserable selfish life . For me but especialy for mindy .She deserves so much better . In this prosess i so want to learn how to listen to Mindys heart and allow her to find some happiness in life .Iwonder if my listening skills dont lac in all areas of my life .Ithought at our mens meeting we should have a lesson on listening .Ineed it . It seems like i have my own agenda to oftenMindy could tell you that . Iwould give most anything to be able to listen to her heart .Any advice on these subjects would be greatThanks God bless . God is good all the time .

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Thank you Joel and Kathy appreciate your encouragement. Love you guys ican tell you really care.Ido want to keep moving forward and in the prosess learn how to listen to Mindys heart. Im really amwanting to learn how to listen. thank you for talking to me last night . Yesterday i must have frustated my help. Iwas in the little bucket truck trying to motion for to back up . Iwas not communicating well . madehim mad and he backed up so fast thought i might get killed. So much to learn yet Had to humbel myself and appoligise.

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Absalutly right Dory not only new way of liveing but new way of thinking. Thank you Joel for helping to protect Mindy. my heart hurts so bad for her this morning makes me cry with her.. Shes went through to much pain because of me already. Im praying for Mindy that the Lord will give her courage today.

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I am dumbfounded. Totally.

 

Kay reports that you went to church today after me giving you specific instructions not to go, under ANY circumstances.

 

Our recommendation is for your wife to now stretch this protection order out as long as legally possible.

 

No more raking her grass.

 

No more nothing.

 

Don't go into the yard.

 

Hire people to rake the grass.

 

You absolutely blow my mind.

 

A restraining order and you STILL won't follow a simple instruction.

 

Make that video, in front of the whole church, on a Sunday morning.

 

Tell them who you are and send that video to us.

 

If you do good, we will send it to Mindy.

 

You probably want to write your speech out first.

 

Type it here to get help in making sure it is right.

 

Mind boggling. Totally mind boggling.

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I think i want to do good yet somehow i manage to do things wrong, Ive had mindy tell me my mind is messed up.At the time i did not like to hear that. Im beginning to beleive she is correct. It seems i have a problem with the way i think and also the way i listen. Ido beg for help in these areas .I did something very wrong today,Iwas told by Joel not to go to church or the baptisim today. Somehow I ended up going to the baptisim. It was wrong .I can see now how it hurt Mindy.Im sorry Please forgive me. Iadmit ,Im not sure if it is selfishness ,making me look good,control,not listening,pride,or messed up thinking.Mayby all of the above .I somehow do want change so i can quit hurting Mindy. Ready to listen again. Thank you for your help

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You went to the baptism. That was the "CHURCH" that I specifically told you that you could NOT go to, under ANY circumstances on the phone when I called you at like what? 11:00 pm last night? JUST TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THIS!!!

 

You obviously did not have the talk we told you to have with the people you live with, telling them that you are NOT going, period - because of how badly they abused your wife.

 

This was huge, Bruce. Huge.

 

We really don't have much to say to you until you show some sincerity - and at this point, that will only come through seeing a video tape of your confession to the church.

 

"I am an abusive husband. My wife got a restraining order. SHE is the victim, NOT me. You folks are not understanding and that is my fault. Hear me loud and clear. I AM AN ABUSER - SO ABUSIVE THAT MY WIFE NEEDED TO GET A RESTRAINING ORDER TO PROTECT HERSELF. I have hit my wife _____ times in our marriage. She has REASON to fear me. I am a monster. Support my wife. She is a VICTIM of a very sick man. Me. Your looking at me as a victim is furthering the abuse on my beautiful and hurting wife. SHE is the saint. Not me. I have fooled you all for years. I am asking God to help me change, but I have been a lying hypocrite for all of the years you have known me. I have lived a lie. I have abused my wife and then come to church and smiled, looking all holy. I am the man that women are warned about. Poor Mindy. Not poor Bruce. You should hate me, but I am asking for your grace. Regardless of what you do with me though, you need to love Mindy. SHE IS the only one of importance right now. Me? I am just a messed up man who needs to be changed by the Spirit of the Lord, for the first time in my life."

 

I said to you last night, "Bruce, you have to do this right" - referring to straightening this out with the people you live with and not going to the baptism today. I said, "If you don't get this cleared up, we are going to ask you to do a confession in front of the whole church and videotape it for your wife. We don't want to ask you to do that - but if you don't get this right, that is the next place we are going."

 

And what did you do? You did EXACTLY what we asked you NOT to do!

 

We had another man do this recently. He came to an intensive and we asked him to do a couple SPECIFIC things. He went home and six months later, started convincing his wife that he did not need to do these things.

 

Abusive men are just "like" this. They refuse to do what they need to do in order to bring safety and healing to their wife's heart.

 

The other guy was smooth. Took a long time for him to be "found out".

 

You at least are openly abusive - and get caught quick.

 

But for now, there is nothing more to talk about - until after you do that confessional and video tape it.

 

On the Sunday this is going to happen, let us know so Mindy does not go to church. DO NOT DO A CONFESSIONAL without recording it on video. That will mean nothing and you will have to do another if you ever want to speak to your wife again.

 

This is the door that you have forced us to put in front of you. You must walk through it.

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I admit what I did was wrong but i did not go to church. I went to a farm pond.

 

Abusive men are just "like" this. They refuse to do what they need to do in order to bring safety and healing to their wife's heart.

 

Bruce,

 

Maybe I can explain what Joel is trying to say here...

 

"abusive" and "arrested" men, i.e. "LITTLE BOYS" in their thinking will try to find "LOOP HOLES" to "GET AROUND" the rules to "JUSTIFY" their fulfillment of their FLESHLY WANTS.

 

You are STILL wanting to do this YOUR WAY!

 

In your head, you think "farm pond" is not "church", and therefore I can go.

 

NO NO NO Bruce. Your thinking needs to change!!!!

 

You are focusing on the facts and on the details SO THAT you can FIND A LOOP HOLE! This is the TRAP OF RELIGIOUS LEGALISM!

 

Your thinking instead needs to be "HOW CAN I BLESS MY WIFE?". You should be asking yourself, "will my going to this pond baptism BLESS my wife or will it hurt her?" Never mind what YOU want to believe. You need to dig around in your brain and heart for truth, not for excuses and justifications!!

 

And IF you can't come up with the answer, then this is where you SUBMIT your wants and desires to figure it out over to an authority that you trust to help you. You know, kinda like ASKING FOR DIRECTIONS! You should have called or texted Joel and asked, "hey do you think going to the would bless my wife?" Truly maybe you are SO LOCKED UP IN LEGALISM that you couldn't figure this out on your own. I will give you that much. BUT... WHEN you are unsure, you really NEED to come to Joel and run it by him for now and for many days from now.

 

YOU CANNOT TAKE A GAMBLE ON ASSUMING THAT YOU HAVE ANY answers, much less, ALL THE ANSWERS. YOU MUST ASSUME YOU ARE VERY VERY IGNORANT WHEN IT COMES TO MATTERS OF A WOMAN'S HEART

 

We REALLY want to help you and Mindy. You really need to be in a place where you come to us for every little detail of your life with her. It won't last forever, but hte sooner you accept and submit to this, the sooner your restoration will begin.

 

You probably feel like a trapped squirrel right now refusing to "let go" and accept your state of being completely. You probably have 'periods of letting go" but then the moment you get your energy back or your dander back up you become squirrely and decide to try and crash out of the cage yourself again. You must truly die to self and show complete surrender for that the cage door to be ever opened again.

 

I am really sorry you are going thru this. But in your instance, it is what needs to be done to bring you into a MUCH better place with your wife adn thus, your life.

 

God Bless you!

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Bruce,

 

Before you talk to anyone from the Church about Mindy being the real victim, here, you need to post your letter on this forum for all to see, first!

 

You have proven that your words alone mean nothing, so please let those with experience proof-read, first! And, just for the record, this is what Mindy wants, too.

 

We are all worried that you will word it wrong, and by doing so, you will still come out the good guy, here.

 

Also, we want to see apology letters written out to each one of your kids.

 

You OWE these kids the truth as it is seen in God's eyes!!! Not yours or mine or your Pastors, or the Community, or anyone's.

 

And, although your Pastor's are trying to help, they aren't seeing the full picture, here. All they are seeing is that their "brother" can't go to Church, boo hoo............ "That Poor man" "His wife is bitter" NO, Bruce, your wife is NOT bitter, she is hurt. She loves her Lord, make NO mistake about it, and God WILL bless her, with or without YOU!!!

 

WE need to see action. When we start seeing this action, "people" will calm down with getting on your case! And, maybe, if you're real lucky, I will too. :shock:

 

Now, go get busy writing!!

Kay

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Thank you Dory and Joel. Ineed to be responsible for my actions and furthermore i want too. Iadmit yeasterday i felt low. It was a hard day. Im sure that satan would like me to give up. I WILL NOT GIVE UP .Im not real sure what went on sunday, but as i ask God to show me , probably ,Im a peaple pleaser or still want my own way . As Joel was saying today blessing our wife should take priority over others. Today i was considering eating at Logans then remembered today was tuesday and Mindy eats there on tuesdays sometimes so decided that would not bless her if she wanted to eat there . I just pray that can happen a lot more .By the way i did feel like a caged squirrel there for a while but thats okay ill try to learn somthing from it .

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Bruce,

 

Bruce..I wrote this on your wife's thread...she agrees...all personal letters are to be put here FIRST...for approval...

 

 

Dig deep and fast and pray for God to help you and give you the words...to your children. Having a relationship with your children based in lies will never satisfy your life or THEIRS. They are owed the truth for their sakes. They will probably love you more NOT less for being a man of God and not a man of hiding in the Darkness.

 

Put yourself in God's way...do whatever it takes.

 

 

I think he needs to write each of his children a letter and apologize to them for what he has done to their mother. He has to DO an ACTION to move past his "FEELINGS" of self-pity. Actions trump feelings. Actions trump words. Actions back up the TRUTH about words and prove a man's motive and intention of heart.

 

He needs to set the record straight...all the truth and nothing but the truth...so help him God.

 

He will not go anywhere and remain abusive if he can get even one person's ear or sympathy.

 

If he stays in the "victim" mode he can not work toward growth and change.

 

True repentance is taking responsibility and ownership for his actions. It is also taking responsibility for the harm and damage it has caused for you and his children. There can not be a real restoration here if he does not repent and stop looking for somone to feel sorry for him. Trying to find someone to coddle him only proves he has not repented. He is looking for someone, anyone to let him offf the hook and hold him to God's standard or being in a right relationship with his Maker.

 

You can not have reconciliation without this...reconciliation means you give the hurt party the permission or NOT to offer a way back into relationship. This does NOT mean mindy you did not forgive him. Forgiveness is a choice. But even with forgiveness it does not mean he has earned the right for you to trust him for a very, very long time.

 

The next step in the true process of forgiveness is moving toward restitution...he has to Do something to make amends for his abuse. writing those letters is a good place to start and publically renouncing his abuse before his Church.

 

Restoration of relationship can only come by walking through these steps. Restoration means putting back to God's original intent. It means for Bruce to walk out God's original intent for him as a husband.

 

This is what he must DO.

 

Kimberly

 

God is kind Bruce...God will help you and give you every avenue to win her heart back. You must take and receive all God is giving you to accomplish His will. God wants your marriage restored...more than you do. God wants it done, however, according to HIS WAY and HIS WORD concerning marriage. You can not climb in another way and be in the fold. God has been gracious to you by extending His hand of mercy to even give you this chance. God's grace is for the humble. The Lord has even put these people around you to show you His path. Think of that Bruce...God sent you people because of His great mercy. Be grateful , deeply, deeply grateful for all God is doing for you. Get with God...join God in His Plan...God owes you nothing...and yet, God sent you KAY...everyday of your life pray for this woman who was the very voice of God to you to save you from yourself. Bless her, honor her for her obedience to God....honor her by DOING all she asks you to do for your wife.

 

God sent your wife KAY to rescue His precious daughter from the hands of an abuser. That is WHO our faithful God is. KAY is a faithful, faithful servant of God. Listen to her...listen to Joel. God LOVES mindy more than you do. Do not ever forget it!!

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Bruce,

 

Sorry to be so hard on you, but you have to understand...........

 

I saw your wife's tears, her heartbreak, her pain, her anguish. You need to feel her pain, Bruce. Really really feel it. This pain that you caused.

 

Like I told you before. I want more than anything for you to turn into a good man of God. A real Christ-like man who will die for your bride, who will love your wife as much as Christ loves the Church. Not only for her, but for you, too, because God doesn't want any of his children to perish.

 

Make today the day, Bruce, that you stop the pity-party and wake up each morning saying, "What can I do today that will bless my wife!"

 

Continuing to Pray,

Kay

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Bruce,

 

I challenge you to start writing out on paper, a nice LONG apology letter for your lovely wife. Of course, you cannot GIVE it to her right now. However, I think if you start getting down in the mud of what you have done to her, it will help you start to feel her pain. Get as specific as possible -write down as many things you can think of that you have done that even MAYBE hurt her, and apologize as genuinely as possible (on paper) DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT give it to her now. But, keep it, add to it. Keep adding to it every chance you get. Keep apologizing every time you think of something new. Write it all down. think hard about how those things must have made her feel. Let that all sink in. Confront yourself with your sin.

 

What ever is brought into the light can be healed. Whatever is kept in the darkness is a tool of Satan.

 

you could even post the apologies here, so that we can help you with wording things in a way that Mindy might actually receive HEALING instead of hurt from your words.

 

Do something different Bruce.

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You probably want to write your speech out first.

 

Type it here to get help in making sure it is right.

 

These are words directly from Joel............. We are all wondering, Bruce, did you write out your speech yet??

 

We would really like to see what was written, as Joel requested. That would be a great "action" that would most likely bless your wife, which is the ultimate goal.

 

I think we can all agree that humbling yourself is a very good start!

 

Bless you, today,

Kay

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Bruce,

 

I have not followed your thread until today. Here we go again. It boggles my mind at what you have in front of you. It is so clear. It is so obvious. It's time to change the glasses you peer through as you look at life. I am going to share something that I shared with another man just like you.

 

Get off your horse named Pity and stand up and freaking do it! My goodness. This is so simple. Do SOMETHING! Why is it so hard to do SOMETHING?

 

 

I get so angry at all the men here who whine and cry like a baby while I am watching their wives give them chance after chance after chance. How many chances is the magic number for ya'll. Is it 20,30,100,or 1000? This is NOT rocket science. If you love your wife, DO THE RIGHT THING!

 

Every single man who comes here knows the difference between right and wrong. We may have made stupid choices but we were given brains or we would be dead. COME ON! Stop being selfish! Stop being idiots! Stop hurting people you claim to love! Listen to God! Listen to your WIVES! Listen to your Children! Listen to those who came before you! LISTEN! Open your hearts! Open your minds! Open your soul!

 

I have spent the last 25 months busting my hump to learn every single thing that I can to become Christlike so that it will give me one chance. Let me say that again, ONE CHANCE! That is all it will take because I LOVE my wife and family enough to CHANGE! I have endured more than most people could in a lifetime but it didn't defeat me. Why? Because I chose not to let it. Why is that so freaking hard to understand?

 

I am sure that I will get in trouble for this post and it is not directed at just you Broken Arrow but all the men who WON'T do what it takes to heal your wives broken hearts. I hope every man who comes here reads this. STOP telling us what you are going to do and start showing us! Words mean nothing until the doing is in place.

 

I am a man and it drives me BANANAS to watch this over and over and over. I can only imagine what this looks like to a hurting wife. This will NEVER stop until YOU make it stop, period,the end. If another man was treating your daughter the way ya"ll are treating your wives, how would you react to that man? Would you tell your daughter it is ok for someone to treat her that way? Think about this! Your wife is SOMEONE'S daughter.

 

So get up off your whiny hineys and start being a MAN!

 

I hope and pray, from the depths of my soul and for your beautiful wife's heart, that somehow this hit the spot in you that is UNWILLING to change.

 

God Bless

David

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Its okay Kay you dont have to be sorry.Idonthold that against you. Im sure i need to hear it. Asfar as the letter of appology to the the church Ineed to say it just like Joel told me to say it .It is alreadywritten out in the forum.If you look and can not find it i will be glad to write it out but it will take a lot of time. Some of our children have ask me why i think i need to keep appologizing.If you think that is nessesary in a letter form then iwill appreciate it and start working on it . A very good idea also to write an appology letter to mindy. Your right about me needing to see and feel mindys pain. Ive been praying the Lord will show me that. Even the smallest amount i would see would not even come close to anything she feels inside her heart. Keep the imput coming.

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I am an abusive husband. My wife got a restraining order. she is the victimnot me .you folks are not understanding andthat is my fault .Hear me loud and clear. Iam an abuser. So abusive that my wife needed to get a restraining order t o protect herself. Ihave hit my wife 200 times in our marriage she has reason to fear me. I am a monster.Support my wife .She is the victim of a very sick man.Your looking at me as a victim is furthering the abuse to my hurting wife .She is a saint not me .I have fooled you for years.Iam asking God to help me change Buti have been a lying hypocrite for all these years you have known me . I have lived a lie. I have abused my wife and then come to church and smiled lookking all holy.I am a man that women are warned about. Poor Mindy not poor bruce. Youshould hate me but i am asking for your grace.regardless of what you do with me you need to love mindy. She is the only one of importance right now .Iam a messed up man who nedds to be changed by the spirit of the Lord.

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I guess im not getting all of this pity party stuff everyone is talking about . Of course ive had my moments. But i just dont feel like i am going around in self pity. Now i realize my feeler may be stuck and it is obvious i dont always think clearly. Iask peaple around me if they see self pity and they say they dont. In all sinserity from the bottom of my heart if i really am in that mode please help me see where it is at so i can work on changing it GOD BLESS YOU

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bruce,

 

Iask peaple around me if they see self pity and they say they dont.

 

 

It all depends who you are asking. If you are asking people who have never been behind closed doors with you then doesn't it it make sense they would agree with you?

 

SELF is the operative word Bruce....when self is on the throne it can not see clearly. When one's soul is in a pit your view is narrowed.

 

Your pit that has swallowed you up is not realizing that you never..not once ever had the right to abuse your wife. God never will condone that evil. Just because mere men who are but a vapor...who are dust....who fade like the flower....try to enable you by not confronting your evil then they are just as guilty as you are. That is the Gospel of TRUTH.

 

You could change the whole course of your Community by YOU being that person who will stand up and declare truth. Declare the truth of protecting the innocent, bringing God's justice into the light. God's very own heartbeat is for the oppressed and the downtrodden...for that wife who has no voice because of "religious" leaders who have no heart at all.

 

Jesus condemned the Pharisees of His day for these very reasons. They put so many rules on people but they themselves were evil to their core.

 

Stand on the side of righteousness Bruce and you will be called a son of the Most high God.

 

Be that ONE man who will have courage and a valiant spirit like Joshua of old and take down every enemy of God who mocks Him.

 

God honors that man who will HONOR GOD.

 

Kimberly

 

How do you know how many people your testimony may save and free from similar abuses? All God needs is ONE./..one man who will say No More...

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