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I'm trying to be patient, but I'm about at the end of my rope. I ordered book one, read it in about 3 hours, and passed it on to my husband. It says everything I've been trying to tell him that he won't hear. He is reading it, and I am confident that he will finish it. He said he would read it, and if nothing else he is a man of his word.

 

He is on chapter 9. I asked him the other day if he had any thoughts so far, and he said, "All it says is what a great book this is. It doesn't tell me anything."

 

Huh?????

 

My husband is an intelligent guy with an above average IQ. Very stupid when it comes to relationships, but intelligent. It absolutely amazes me that he can be in such denial. We've been married 24 years, have 5 kids, and he has managed to do a heck of a lot of damage to our family. It is, of course, all my fault.

 

The real question is this . . . assuming he still refuses to see the light, I am going to have a very hard time getting him out of here. Not because of me - I am SO ready to have him gone, and so are my kids. My husband is visually disabled. He is not totally blind and is really pretty funcitonal, but he does not drive. He goes nowhere unless I take him. He has a small amount of disability income that he would have difficulty living on. I am not sure where I would take him. He does not have any close friends, and I'm not sure his family would be willing to take him in. My mother in law often wonders out loud how I stand being married to her son. He is convinced that I am plotting to get rid of him and tells me on a regular basis that I am not going to drive him out. I can't exactly strong arm him into the car, and since there is no physical abuse at the moment (there was in the past) I have no reason to get the law involved. There are many reasons why I cannot be the one to leave.

 

My husband did leave several years ago - he was gone for a year and I was encouraged by a few well-meaning pastors to do the "right" thing and take him back. It's no surprise to any of you that the changes didn't last very long and we are right back where we were before. He admitted to having an "emotional affair" while he was gone, but I have no idea with whom, or if he still communicates with her. I don't have access to his email account so I have no idea who he talks to.

 

If the lightbulb goes on sometime soon, I might be able to actually care enough to put this thing back together . . . no, together for the first time, because it never really was together. It's going to have to happen fast, though, and he simply refuses to hear any of this, so I'm not holding out much hope.

 

I do have a cast iron frying pan. :lol:

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Hi Loony Toons,

 

My husband is an intelligent guy with an above average IQ. Very stupid when it comes to relationships, but intelligent. It absolutely amazes me that he can be in such denial. We've been married 24 years, have 5 kids, and he has managed to do a heck of a lot of damage to our family. It is, of course, all my fault.

 

Sure, we're not talking about my life here ????

 

Joel and Kathy say that it usually takes until Chapter 12 for the lights to go on, so he has 3 chapters to go... Also, are you sure he wasn't just kidding for real when he said, it wasn't telling him anything ? Perhaps he has that dry sense of humor like mine does. I could hear my huaband saying those exact words, because of his pride and ego.

 

Can you get him on the Call tonight ?? 10:00 Eastern Time. J & K do a great job at getting through to clueless Men.

 

I do understand your predicament, but I say, that if things do get worse, I would still drive him to his mother's house and let HER deal with him. After all, she and his father most likely created his "issues"

 

He is reading the book, so therefore, does seem to want to try to make things better, so you have to give him that.

 

Just stand your ground with him, and make him accountable for his actions. Let him know when he is mistreating you. STop it immediately.

I used to think it was being disrespectful to get inbetween him when he was dealing with one of the kids, but I was told by Kathy, that I need to intervene right away, so my daughters learn how to stand up for themselves, and my sons learn that it is "abuse" and is wrong.

 

If things go from bad to worse, and hopefully, they won't, but if they do..... how about going on strike ? Don't do anything for him. Perhaps you have an older child that could drive him places ??? or......... keep him at home (with the exception of work) and ignore the heck out of him, while he is in "jail" Leave the bedroom, if you have to......... Make him understand that YOU aren't staying in this relationship unless things change.

 

Also, get him to an Intensive Weekend. The knowledge that you both come home with will be the best money that you've ever spent.

 

And, I guess if nothing else works, then use the Ole Frying Pan Method. JK

 

Hope this helps...........

Kay (Married 24 years (almost 25 - with 5 kids too)

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Hi Tunes,

 

I don't have a lot of advice for you except that you need to keep reading and gaining strength and understanding. Can you get book 2, the DVD seminar or any of the other material by J&K. Every bit of information will be a help to you.

 

Begin to pray and ask the Lord for guidance. God makes a way for us when we ask in faith without doubting.

 

I have been quite amazed a few times with different women posters coming with such, what appeared to be, hopeless situations and then changes begin to take place. God opens a door for her to have the husband leave, or the husband actually reads the book and desires change, or the husband agrees to going to an intensive.

 

So, God does have an answer for you. When God brings new information into our lives it is with good in mind, we are ready for change.

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Hi Loony Toons,

 

My husband is an intelligent guy with an above average IQ. Very stupid when it comes to relationships, but intelligent. It absolutely amazes me that he can be in such denial. We've been married 24 years, have 5 kids, and he has managed to do a heck of a lot of damage to our family. It is, of course, all my fault.

 

Sure, we're not talking about my life here ????

 

 

It is kinda sad that so many men are like this, isn't it?

 

Thanks for the kind words. I am not actually going to do anything until he's read the whole book. He does mean it when he says it's not telling him anything - he doesn't have that kind of sense of humor.

 

I can get book 2 and the DVD's next week - bad case of Day Before Payday Syndrome here. :roll:

 

I strongly doubt that I would be able to get him into the car so that I could drop him off at his mom's. He is determined that I am not going to get rid of him. Besides, I like my mother in law!

 

I'm probably jumping the gun here - I am not holding out much hope that things will change and so I am already projecting to the next step. Patience has never been my strong suit.

 

I would love to get on the calls, but I work evenings. At this point I can't see him being willing to get on those calls himself, but hey, anything can happen. Same thing with the intensive - at this point I just can't see him agreeing to go, but I will bring it up and see what happens.

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Hi Loony Toons,

 

Don't lose hope. Give him the chance if he is still reading. At least he seems to want to change, even if he is not getting it quite yet.

 

If he rebels and does nothing, then you will have to start making some demands on him - Change or else......... GEt us to the Intensive, or else........

 

Also, keep praying to God to help him see the light!

 

We are here for you. I'm sure that Joel would be willing to give him a call next week too, if he seems to need it

 

God Bless,

Kay

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I know, I know . . . I just want him to change yesterday. :roll: I have never done well with that waiting thing. I really am going to wait until he finishes the book before I do anything else.

 

OK, that's not true. What I am doing is calling him on it whenever he is acting like a 3 year old, which unfortunately is pretty often. He is definitely not appreciating this. I am pretty sure he thinks that J&K's teaching is wrong and is blaming them for all of it. He did not go into reading the book with an open mind - apparently he did a little research and said something along the lines of knowing who Joel is, and if he hadn't dealt with his issues then everything he says is suspect. Last we talked about it, he still can't see where Joel has "dealt with his issues." The fact that our current pastors have an endorsement on the book and website hasn't made a difference. I am not sure he'd be open to a call from Joel at the moment. He'd probably hang up on him.

 

I looked at my 18 yo son after one of my husband's outbursts today and said, "Please don't do this to your future wife." He said, "Don't worry. I figure if I just think about what Dad would do and then do the opposite, I'll get it right." I find it really sad that I am hoping my kids will NOT turn out like their father.

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Quick question about the DVD's - I will be ordering them as soon as the direct deposit hits the bank. Do I need to make sure that my kids (18, 16, 13, 11) do not see them? We homeschool, and since I work evenings and nights they are all pretty much on my schedule - there is not really a time when we could watch them that at least a couple of our kids aren't up. If there are discussions best left to husband and wife I can move the player into our room.

 

He WILL watch them. I have duct tape. :lol:

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The DVD's do contain lots of references specific to husband/wife sexual relationships but not necessarily inappropriate for children. What there is is a lot of adult junk and damage discussed which you may or may not wish for your children to hear.

Begin watching them in your bedroom and see what you think for your children. We have no problem with our 11 year old daughter occasionally hearing parts of them as she knows what we do as a ministry, but there's also no need to burden children with adult information. What I'm trying to say there's nothing inappropriate per say, but to maintain children's innocence in adult problems would be the concern.

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Hi Tunes,

 

We viewed the DVD seminar with all of our kids. It was great. Joel Davisson and Kathy are light-hearted and funny at times.

 

My teen daughters really enjoyed them very much and our teen son, although he laughed at times at the jokes, was troubled by the message. Isn't that sad. We had raised our kids under the old paradigm for sure.

 

Considering the ages of your kids the DVD seminar should be just perfect for them. Be casual about it. Have a light hearted attituded. Your husand may be squirming, but that is a good thing. :wink:

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What I'm trying to say there's nothing inappropriate per say, but to maintain children's innocence in adult problems would be the concern.

 

That's what I was wondering about. I certainly wasn't thinking there would actually be any R rated material in there. :wink: I do want my kids to learn this before they make the mistakes we did, so I am thinking that I will play them whenever and not worry about them listening. We can always move it to the other room if it gets to be too much for them.

 

Joel and Kathy, if your ears were burning today it's because Pam Dumont and I were talking about you. :D She sends a hi and blessings your way. She had a lot of positive things to say about you, which is just another confirmation that I am in the right place, and I know I have her support if I need to tighten the screws. I know I have all of you here as well, but I can run to Pam's for coffee. Jim always has coffee. :lol:

 

I am very ready for my husband to squirm. Right now he's just angry, which is nothing new. He's always angry, no matter what happens. I do or don't do something, he's angry. Kid falls out of the tree, he's angry. Horse gets out, he's angry. I don't think he knows how to be anything else.

 

I guess I find this so frustrating because I really can see the other side. Once upon a time there was this funny, loving, considerate guy who put me first and promised me the moon. Then I married him. :? I think he's still in there somewhere, but danged if I can find him.

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This morning, I asked him how he was coming with the book. He said he had finished it. That's it, no comment, no discussion. If his behavior this morning was anything to go by, it made no impact whatsoever.

 

I will be ordering book 2 and the DVD's this week. He has not yet agreed to read the second book, and I'm not sure if he will. He seems pretty resistant to the message. Hopefully the DVD's will wake him up.

 

:idea: Light bulb moment! If there is one person my husband might talk to, it's probably a long time friend of his who's also a pastor. I know this guy well enough to believe that he'll jump right on board with this. He is the one who counseled us when my husband left. I fell in love with him the minute he looked at my husband and said, "You don't listen well, do you? That's not what she said." :lol: I need to order an extra book and get it into his hands so he'll know what's going on if my husband calls him.

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Hi Lt'

 

It doesn't look like you are impatient, 24 years is a long time! My husband has said so many times, "just give me some time", so I have, 15 years, I think thats pretty patient, don't you? It's so funny to me that when we are waaiittiinngg for them to "get it" and then "think about it" and then decide to change, that we are supposed to be patient. What do you call 15 years? Pretty patient wouldn't you say? I am just saying this so that you aren't so hard on yourself about "patients", maybe thats the problem, we are all to patient??

 

Michelle

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maybe thats the problem, we are all to patient??

 

Patience with nothing else (like consequences!) does not help a man become Christlike. Imagine if our children had ONLY our patience, with no consequences. We'd have monsters on our hands!

 

Patience is certainly a requirement once a man is "in the program", but patience with no action before then sure keeps us in a miserable situation! Ask me how I know? :evil: Beauty

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Hey there Tunes,

 

you know Pam and Jim Dumont? Wow!

 

We really enjoyed their church so much while we were there in PA.

 

They were an encouragement to us after the Adultery.

 

I remember one time I was so upset and hurt over the adultery and I had walked out of the service just hurting to the max and didn't know what to do. I was having a hard time focusing from all the pain. Pam came out and said "Hey, lets go back in there."

 

She knew that being in the Praise and Worship was where I needed to be.

 

I don't let people stay out of Praise and Worship either. I know that is where they need to be at that moment. Sitting in the hallway will not solve the problem. Being in God's presense will.

 

While people are going through their stuff they need to be in the Word, prayer and church. Being in God's presense helps you get through your stuff. They are really big on the Word and we are too.

 

We were at their house for lunch after church one time and Jim showed us how to make the salsa/cheese dip. We still make that to this day. Sometimes 2-3 times a month, and just about everytime we have a party at our house. :D

 

Tell them we said Hello and a BIG THANK YOU! :D

 

Kathy of Joel and Kathy

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You got that right, the monster thing, that also applies to the children in our homes with an adult body. The problem I have is I don't know what consequences would even have an effect anymore. He has control over all the money, which takes away alot of options. He has also had me admitted to phsyco wards before so I'm afraid to do much or I might end up without my kids(I was made to look like I abandoned the kids when I left for a few weeks last summer, the kids were supposed to be with me, but he wouldn't let them, but didn't tell anyone that part and when I tried to explain no one would believe me because I'm Psycho). I wish I had the guts to stand up to him, but I've waited so long that I'm worn down physically and don't have much fight left in me. He has read the first book and watched the dvd's with me and agrees, but he doesn't think he's that bad, and you can't tell him any different, believe me I've tried. What a baby, and he runs his own company with 40 employees, "go figure"! He has a partnership with his dad(a true narcisist), but my name isn't on the business and he says it's for my own benefit. I haven't figured that one out yet, so if anyone does, let me know?????

 

 

Michelle

 

p.s. Looney Tunes, your situation sounds alot like mine, I'm sorry for that because I know how you feel.How can someone so intelligent be so in denial?? By the way, I've been looking for a good cast iron skillet, you never know when one might come in handy, where'd you get yours???

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Hey there Tunes,

 

you know Pam and Jim Dumont? Wow!

 

We belong to their church. It's amazing how God works, because I didn't find you through them, but when I saw their endorsement I figured you guys must be ok. :lol:

 

I remember one time I was so upset and hurt over the adultery and I had walked out of the service just hurting to the max and didn't know what to do. I was having a hard time focusing from all the pain. Pam came out and said "Hey, lets go back in there."

 

That sounds like Pam.

 

We were at their house for lunch after church one time and Jim showed us how to make the salsa/cheese dip.

 

Hmm, I'll have to ask him about that. Jim and I share a coffee addiction. We figure that since God made plants before He made people, then He made coffee before He woke Adam up. :wink: See, it's biblical! Just goes to show you can rationalize anything if you try hard enough. :roll:

 

Tell them we said Hello and a BIG THANK YOU! :D

 

Will do!

 

Michelle, wonderful cast iron skillets can be had at http://www.lehmans.com :P

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Why don't you have his e-mail password?

 

As far as we are concerned, if a husband will not give his wife an e-mail password, then he has declared divorce.

 

Looney Tunes, you are WAY TOO ENABLING. You are concerned for where he would go and where he would live if you kick him out? That is not your issue.

 

If he maintains his current attitudes, then you do what is necessary - and yes, - for the purpose of restoration. However, you enabling him to stay the same is not helping him.

 

Having your kids listen to the DVD set if you are a homeschool family is fine.

 

For both you and the other Michelle: I highly recommend that you both find an attorney who offers a free initial consultation. You need to know what your position is legally and if you did need to file for a legal separation and divorce.

 

Michelle, you are 100% right about NOT leaving the home. YOU stay. HE goes, if it comes to that. See an attorney asap and discuss your husbands financial manipulations. I can see you ending up in a VERY bad place if you don't start now to get your ducks in order legally. Don't tell him you are conferring with an attorney. Just get input on how you would come out in a divorce. Remember, when we recommend a wife file for seperation or divorce, for the purpose of restoration, we want her to take her hands off her attorney and give a green light for the attorney to "take him to the matt."

 

I am more concerned for Michelle on a legal end. Your husband has everything set up to go his way. You need legal counsel, NOW. Looney tunes, you just need legal counsel on how to get him out if he does not begin to fulfill his marriage covenant; to love, honor and cherish you.

 

If he refuses to give you his e-mail password, then that is a declaration of divorce. He has divorced you already in his heart - and the only reason he is with you is because it is convenient. We do, I am sure, discuss e-mail accounts in the DVD set. Since you are not in imminent danger, as the other Michelle is, you can put the DVD set on and make him watch them, and when it gets to the e-mail password talk, which I assume is in there somewhere! - then you, at that point, make it non-negotiable. You can ask, right now, for the password though.

 

You do want to have that thirty minute appointment with an attorney soon. Just to get your ducks in order and know what would be involved. If he has divorced you already, in his mind, as his actions declare, and if he confirms this by refusing to give you his password, then you will want to lower the boom. So, you were talking about getting ahead of yourself. This is where you want to plan to go, IF he stays in his current mind-set. You would not be divorcing him. He has divorced you already. You are simply making it official and giving him what he wants. DO NOT start "threatening" these things. Give him a small amount of time to watch the DVD set, get him onto the calls, and a small time to read book two, and in the meantime, set that appointment.

 

The free consultation with an attorney does not mean you are doing anything. You are gathering information to empower yourselves.

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Looney Tunes, you are WAY TOO ENABLING. You are concerned for where he would go and where he would live if you kick him out? That is not your issue.

 

Actually, no. I am concerned with HOW to get him out. I'm certain that he would refuse to leave, and short of knocking him out and dragging him to the car I am not sure how to go about getting him out of here. He doesn't work, so it's not like I can just dump his stuff and change the locks while he's gone. Once he's out, he can figure it out for himself.

 

I probably don't have his email password because I have never asked for it. To be honest, at this point I don't really care who he's emailing. I think what I am is way too TRUSTING - he screws up time and time again, and yet for some stupid reason I believe him when he says whatever he says. Then he lets me down again and I can't believe I was so stupid! Sheesh, talk about the definition of insanity . . . maybe I need to use that cast iron frying pan on my own head. :oops:

 

I figured I would give him a reasonable amount of time (does a week sound about right?) to watch the DVD's once they arrive, and then I will be talking to an attorney unless he has an attitude adjustment. I have absolutely no trouble with holding his feet to the fire after giving him a reasonable chance to get with the program. I woulda done it 15 years ago if I'd had any support, but unfortunately I was hanging with the shut-up-and-pray crowd and was made to believe it was the wrong thing to do.

 

I work 3pm-3:30am . . . in Cleveland. I get home at 5am. Yes, I am crazy. I only work 3 days a week, but unfortunately I work every Thursday as well as most Mondays. I am going to try and juggle things around on the next schedule and see if I can get a Thursday off. I really do want to get on the calls but there is absolutely no way I could listen in from work.

 

If the lightbulb does go on, maybe we could arrange for him to talk to Joel at some point?

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Wow, what a schedule. Yes, I will talk to him if the lightbulb goes off. Your time for him to watch the DVD's is a good guideline. He can actually get in on the calls while you are at work if he is actually buying into the program. We also are going to offer a couple other times a week for men only that would do him good. That is a littel different (requires a $100 per month comittment and we are going to be available at least eight times each month JUST for men who are working to win their wife's heart back.

 

That is for later, though, obviously! The only help he may need is finding an apartment! We will see. God does amazing miracles when men read the books, watch the DVD etc. Funny that your husband decided that I have issues and may not receive anyway. Funny how a guy like him can be arrogant (know it all).

 

Well, you are giving him a fair chance! MORE than fair!

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Funny that your husband decided that I have issues and may not receive anyway. Funny how a guy like him can be arrogant (know it all).

 

Yeah, I thought that was pretty hysterical myself, especially since he spent several years of our marriage being sexually abusive to me. Apparently that's not an "issue." Good grief.

 

If the lightbulb doesn't go off, something else will. I am board certified in toxicology. You'd think the man would be more careful. :evil: :P :lol:

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He was nasty to me the second I got out of bed this morning. I often wonder what I do in my sleep that ticks him off so. :roll:

 

Turns out he was mad because I gave Jesse an instruction, but I didn't go to my husband and tell him what I told Jesse to do. Umm, Jesse is 11 years old. He is certainly capable of following my instructions without filtering them through his dad first. Besides, my husband is totally incapable of making the kids do anything they don't want to do, so I don't know why he thought I was going to need backup from him. Aaaargh!

 

One of the biggest issues we have is that my husband is in his own little world most of the time. I can have a discussion with a child right in front of him, and he will not know what is going on at the end of it. I will tell him something, and then he will make a comment or ask a question that makes it very obvious he hasn't heard a word I said. And yet when I'm talking to someone else and not involving him, his radar is up and he is certain I'm deliberately leaving him out.

 

I hope the DVDs arrive soon.

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Loony Tunes

I just want to encourage you that NOW you are hanging with the right crowd, continue to read J&K's books you will be affirmed that you aren't "loony", you'll love the DVD series.

 

Watching the DVD's in one week is an entirely dooable plan and should be a great motivation for your husband.

 

Your husband's "own little world" is caused by his arrested development, something happened in childhood to make him totally internalized. Once he realizes this and makes the choice to take his mind off himself and join your world, heal your heart and grow up things will change. In the end it's his choice so pray that he opens his eyes and heart to God's calling and he makes the committment to becoming the man of God he was called to be.

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Thanks for the encouragement. I'm hanging in until he has a chance to watch the DVDs. We actually did have a nice morning before I left for work. He can be very nice and considerate at times. I'm just never sure if I'm with Jekyll or Hyde at any given moment.

 

I just want to shake him and tell him whatever it was, get over it already! This is why I am not a psychologist. :lol:

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