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Ok going to start another thread. The old one was getting to confusing and old to do me any good. I can hear the replies now that this isn't about me, but in a sense it is. I have to understand what I am doing wrong in order to change it more than on the surface. I've taken heat for not getting this as quickly as other husbands, which is fine but I guess the bright side is that when I do completely get "it" It will stick much better.


So this weekend I was extremely sick. Pink wanted to go to the coast which is about an hours drive each way. I told her I would go because she wanted to, but if I needed to take a nap then not to get upset with me. She exploded on me, called me all sorts of names. I told her I wasn't going to go, because I was sick I wasn't going to take the chance of getting sicker and at the same time be berated for being sick. She decided not to go and in the process told our daughters it was all my fault that they didn't get to go to the beach. The girls saw and heard her yelling at me, and after awhile I snapped back at her which I shouldn't have done.

I tried apologizing to the girls for it, which Pink accused me of brainwashing her daughters against her over. My exact words were "girls, Im sorry for saying those naughty things to your mom. It wasn't ok to say and I am sorry will you forgive me"


So what should I have said instead of that so that Pink would have seen my heart instead of satans.


I know that I need to deepen my level of patience with her.I also need to set the standard for the way that we talk to each other. I feed off her anger and hurt and start talking to her out of pain and anger which isn't right.


I also lied to her today because of something she found on the internet. I was reading a story about Colt McCoy proposing in their football stadium. Colt is a devoted Christian and they had a link that was supposed to be to the video of him proposing. Instead it was a picture of his fiance in her bikini. I immidiately closed it, and tried a differant link which unfortunately was the video of her. I again closed it and gave up. I didn't really think of it because I have to do that type of self monitoring every day on so many levels. Where I screwed up though was that for one I didn't tell her about it when it happened, and two when she asked I lied. I was afraid that she wouldn't beleive the truth, and it would just deepen the rift between us so I tried to lie. I have apologized for it, but the damage is done.

Just so you guys know, I know I'm not perfect.

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We were working together this weeked on a project at her Dad's house with her niece. They were chit chatting and I kept throwing in little sexual comments to Pink under my breath. I don't think that the neice over heard me, and I meant it as a way of forplay like I did back in the good days.

She has told me that she doesn't feel like I am attracted to her. I try to carress her, kiss her, touch her and all of that but it doesn't seem like she notices it because just moments after pinching her bottom or rubbing my hands down her back she'll tell me that I don't ever pay attention to her. If I try to ask her how she took what I had just done not 5 minutes ago I am being defensive.

So the problem is that she wants me to do something that I think I am all ready doing. I ask for ways that she wants me to show affection and she tells me that I used to know, so go back to when we were dating.


So that takes me to the comments to her. She doesn't think that they were heartfelt or honest. I was trying to flirt with her, and at the time it seemed like she was enjoying it but later she told me that she thouht I was lying and that I didn't really mean them. Which leads us back into the cycle of me asking her what she needs from me to show her and her telling me that I all ready know, or the alternate is that she has told me a million times and she's not going to tell me again, or the other stand by of if she tells me then it doesn't mean the same so I need to figure it out.


So that leaves me with a wife who is hurting and me trying but completely failing at making her happy.

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Now she is angry with me because I asked her to go to the movies with me. I am still sick, although feeling alittle better from this weekend but I would rather curl up on the couch and get some rest than go running around town. However I know she is going crazy with boredom and wants to get out of the house. I don't have it in me to do anything physically demanding, and the best that I have today for her is to go to a movie together.


This option is not good enough and since it's not 100% fun and exciting then it's not good enough and again I'm a selfish bastard for wanting to take her and the kids to a movie.


How do I handle this? I can't physically do anything else at this point. I love Pink and was trying to put her first by going to the movies but she doesn't see it this way. She see's it as me being selfish.


My asking her to go to the movies turned into another fight about everything that has been an issue in the last year.

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So she got angry with me because going to the movies was "boring" and she wanted to go do something fun.


She packed up the kids, without telling me where she was going, even though I asked nicely she just left.


Where did she go?


The MOVIES. Oh and had chinese food....


So can somebody explain to me what I did wrong?


She got so upset with me bacause I asked her to go to the movies with me,. I was thinking that it would be great to stop and get some dinner together on the way home but that wasn't what she wanted so what is the differance and why does hat differance make me a lazy worthless bastard?

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So my assumption is that this is all stemming from some common source of hurt.


I am doing something, or rather not doing something that is stirring something up inside of her.


My question is how do I address that hurt, if we can't get even little things in common?


Instead of faulting me fornot finding something amazing to do on a wintery tuesday evening with a sick husband and a month old baby, how about just appreciate that I was making an effort to make her happy and do something just for her.


Instead of being able to focus on what is really going on, we are stuck in the continuous cycle of anger over my effort to read her mind.


She had the entire night to herself, could have gone and done anything she wanted to....she didn't want to go to the movies because that was boring and lame.....so why did she wind up there anyways?


I asked her for no to low cost date ideas, from my understanding there was a million things that I could find for us that we could afford....it took her a half an hour to tell me three ideas that all cost large sums of money and one idea that she had told me was off limits for awhile but strangely enough nothing that was a low to no cost date.


So our starting point seems to be that she doesn't feel loved, and to feel loved means that I have to come up with multiple ingenious and amazing date ideas that can be carried out with a month old baby and a limited budget. Any ideas?

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I would DIE for somebody to sit and listen to Pink and I discuss something rather than this back and forth crap on here.


I understand that the people giving advice think that they are giving "perfect" advice, but the language isn't something that I am picking up enough to actually apply it.


Case in point....


The problem this weekend.


I felt like I was dying to myself by getting out of bed when I was sick to go to the coast.


The only reason I was going was my love for Pink.


But my flesh has only so much that it can give and at the time I was running a 102+ fever.


That weakness of flesh meant that I might need to sleep on the drive..not that I was planning it or wanting it but that I might have to sleep.


How am I supposed to give more than I physically can?


And when I can't give any more...I am physically giving every single ounce of ME that I have....what happens when that isn't enough?


Please PLEASE if you are going to give me some advice, please speak plainly and clearly and more importantly to the exact point of what I am asking. Telling me that I must have broken some promise somewhere in the past and giving me the LOVE acronem though I'm sure was well intended doesn't help here.



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But Monday's Coast fiasco was because I PHYSICALLY couldn't give her what she wanted. How does emotional have anything to do with that? THIS is why I would LOVE for a face to face, in person mediator! I feel like i am pouring my heart out for her, giving her every last fiber of me....and then I get from her that I am not trying!!!!

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Flyboy...attitude is everything. It was your ATTITUDE that sent her off, I am sure...and triggered past emotional hurts.


You always seem to presnet your wife here as a slave driver...intent on making you work beyond your physical capabilities and not even being the least bit appreciative for your effort or its results.


I just cannot see it. If you were truly doing the things you say, WITH THE RIGHT ATTITUDE the details wouldn't matter so much to her.


The LOVE acronym works. Almost every time. It really does. That is why they keep giving it to you.'


If you do those things when Pink is frustrated and upset and about to blow, doing this...honestly doing this will almost instantly diffuse her.


And the fact that she ended up at the movies when you fought only further proves my point...it wasn't the movies and dinner that she found detestable, it was you and your attitude...and your inability to do what she needs!


I just did a google search on inexpensive date ideas and got a TON of them. I can't wait to date again now so that I can go on them!


Just find a list and start doing them. If Pink doesn't like one of them, hey, at least you tried and then go on to the next one! You will learn alot about what she likes and doesn't like...but you can't learn if you don't try.


Take Care,


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I'm tired of failing I guess.


When we were dating I gave her every ounce of my being....which was great for awhile and then all of a sudden it... just.... wasn't.


Sounds like I'm whining and that's cool but it is where my flesh is now. My spirit is weak.


I pray for the patience and humbleness that I used to have and I just can't seem to find it long enough to make a differance. I have it for minutes....which isn't near good enough.


I know this isn't supposed to be about me, but if I'm supposed to be leading then I have to have the strength.


This is probably going to get me into trouble but it is where I am.

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I was just going over Pink's old posts and was seeing things that were posted there. I ask her to tell me when I am doing something right, so I know that it is acceptable behavior. She told me she is afraid to because I might get an ego like her ex. They addressed that pretty good here



I would love to see him be creative with our dates. No this doesn't mean it always has to cost a lot even though he likes to tell everyone how I'm thinking. I like to do different things. I guess I get bored pretty easy. I hope this isn't too much?

Not too much at all. Flyboy just needs to not take it personally if one of his dates doesn't quite touch your heart right now. You can keep coaching him, and not think that he is deliberately trying to give you "bad dates", but reward his effort with praise.


Hey some of us long time married ladies are glad when our husbands even think to plan any date. :roll:


The calls is a very easy thing for him to do. It requires nothing other than the initiative that you want to see from him.


I get that you don't want to be his mother and "make him get on the calls". So while he is seeking to know what it is that will give you hope and trust that he is working hard at this marriage, then getting on the calls is a very easy answer for him to understand.

I do like apologies but I need to see some action and not just words. we'll see if the words are backed up.

I would add that after the calls, you can then thank him for following through on his commitments. Remind him that when he keeps his promises, then you regain trust in him.


Even if you are afraid of his backsliding, compliment his efforts. He needs both compliments and correction for mistakes. One with out the other means:


You got trouble....Right here in River City.....With a capital T, and that rhymes with P, and that stands for Pool.


Musical Interlude supplied free of charge for your entertainment and enjoyment.


When we compliment and don't correct, we create an egomaniac who thinks he is always good and right.

When we correct and don't compliment, we create a discouraged little boy who feels like he is always in trouble.


Balance and consistency is key.


It will be really very tricky for you to be consistent when the baby comes. You will be so tired that you are going to be unable to confront strategically or calmly. You might just blow your top over something that you have been letting him slide on. But, a man with a new baby in the house really has to step up his game and assist you in the ways that prevent the frustration and complete fatigue.


Have a blessed Thanksgiving, Pink. Love on those sweet little ones (in and out of the womb), and love on Flyboy.

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I'm delving deep into my heart trying to figure out why I am having such a hard time WANTING to meet all of my wife's needs right now.


Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to say it's ok or acceptable.... I am trying to identify a weakness that I have so it can be healed.


I think I came into our relationship full of love and fire for her and ran into her old hurts which I wasn't ready to handle.


I wasn't ready to handle the full responsibility of healing her hurts, and when I wasn't able to heal I began to add my own hurts.


When I hit those hurts, they unearthed my own hurts which I hadn't really addressed.


Things like a very verbally and physically abusive step father...where nothing I did was ever good enough.


I think I gave as much as I did hoping to finally find someone who thought I was good enough.


At first it was, and then when it wasn't any more I didn't know how to handle that.


My step dad was never supportive or positive to me. The only thing I ever heard from him was how stupid and lazy I am.


Amazing that my wife uses the same verbage. It's also amazing how deep it cuts me and how high I pile the wall to protect my heart.


It's hard to be the caring loving husband that I desire to be when you are hunkered down in Ft. Knox licking my own wounds.


So when I gave her everything I had and it wasn't good enough...and she was telling me how much I sucked it brought up alot of old stuff which I reacted to. Which of course brought up alot of bad stuff for her.


I had hoped that if I just pour all the love I had in my heart on her that she would be healed from her ex. It may have worked if I was aware of all of the little things that were negating the things that I was doing for her.


I have to get myself back to the point where I was when we met. So I can go back to pouring the love on her, but this time "hopefully" without the little things that I did before.


My heart is to fill my wife with love. That was what I started out to do and that is what I want to do now.


So my starting point this week is to not defend, and to plan a date for Pink. Good thing I all ready had something planned for the weekend so hope that's not cheating....


Another thought, I think it matters too much to me that people like me and understand the "situation" to the point that I am fighting to be right instead of fighting to understand her.


Maybe that goes back to my step dad as well. Never having the love from him, and always always being wrong even when I wasn't. Then when I was wrong I got beaten for it both physically and mentally. Then when Pink says I'm doing something Im not I get that same feeling. It leads me down that road to defensiveness. I get those same feelings now as I did when I was a little boy. Only now I'm not supposed to be the little boy, but those emotions are so strong!

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You said you are struggling to know why you don't WANT to meet all your wife's needs now.

It's simple. Because meeting all her needs requires effort. It is very difficult. It means dying to your OWN needs.

Jesus said He wants you as a husband to lay down your life for your wife.

It is NOT easy. If it was, all men would do it.

When you were dating you had a good reason to meet her needs. You were trying to win her heart. You would do ANYTHING for her then.

Just a suggestion. Have you read through ALL of 'Undying Trust' and 'For Him/For Her' posts.

It's all about attitude. Read them through, over and over. Try and see the ATTITUDE of those two men. Their actions, not just their words.

You said 'My heart is to fill my wife with love'. But you are not filling her with love if she is not happy. It's not love if you are only willing to love her how YOU think she should be loved.

Also read 'Favourite Posts of Preciousone. Encouragement to men'. The posts there are not that long and there's not too many.

God says to live with your wife with understanding. That's where you're at. You're LEARNING to understand her. Just don't get mad at her because YOU are struggling with the learning.

Don't forget when you do become the Man of her dreams that she WILL BE the Woman of your dreams!

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So my starting point this week is to not defend, and to plan a date for Pink. Good thing I all ready had something planned for the weekend so hope that's not cheating....


This is a wonderful starting point. You will begin to heal her so much if you just don't defend. And also remember what firewalker said in that post to you...don't be offended if some of your dates don't "touch" her...just cheerfully cross it off of the list and go to the next one.


What about a romantic scavenger hunt? You leave clues for the next hiding place at each previous hiding place...start out with a love letter to her explaining the hunt, and give her a clue to find the next place...hide the things in places where she can take the baby in a stroller and the girls as well...see if she can get them all involved. If there are places nearby where you enjoyed a kiss or a cuddle or something sentimental, hide something there. Buy a bag of hersheys kisses and hide them at each spot. At the last spot, leave a not asking her to dinner (at home if budget doesn't allow).


What about playing pool? I always wanted to play pool with my husband...it is time to talk and flirt and joke with each other, all while competing with one another. If you are good at pool, there is lots of time for contact with pink as you generously try to help her with her pool skills.


As far as not "feeling" the "love" and desire to expend all of this energy on your wife...please remember that a man must just DO these things...he need not FEEL it right now. I man begins to feel the change after he begins to DO the things needed for the change. This is covered in the intensive.


I almost put the intensive as a cheap date idea, but I know it is not cheap. Still, it is totally worth the money, and you would not regret going.


Take Care,


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It's not so much that I get offended if a date doesn't hit the spot for her, it's that it causes so much havoc and hurt for her that it has become safer to not try than to try. When I try something, and it blows up, it begins another downward spiral for us so it has become kind of a cop out on my part not to try. I have little ideas that before we were married I would have tried, but I know in my heart that she won't care or it won't make a differance and that time and energy will be wasted. We'll be fighting about the same ol' stuff and I'll have that much less energy and time for it.


I didn't stop persuing her because we got married. I stopped persuing because nothing I did was ever good enough and I gave up. Yes I gave up. I quit apologizing, I guit trying to impress her, I guit trying to learn more about my wife. I just didn't/don't have the energy to be the all encompassing husband right now. I admit I'm doing just enough to get by because that's all I have the energy for right now. Sucks and pitifull but it's the truth.


Last night I slept in the spare room. She woke me up at 4am because she had had a bad dream. So I went back to bed with her, thinking that because just earlier that evening she had voiced to me that she wanted help with our 1mo old. I was holding her when Pink came back to bed.


This upset Pink.


She said that I wasn't there to comfort the baby but there to comfort her.


I asked calmly and w love and desire to please her how I could meet her needs.


Her response was that it didnt matter. I sucked at being a husband if I didn't know.


I asked several times and each time was rejected.


I changed the babies diaper and she got upset with me for caring about the baby instead of her.


I asked again what I could do to help her and comfort her. That I didn't know what was needed but I was very willing to learn.


I was rebuked, and belittled. T


hings were escalating again so I voted myself off of the island and asked her if she would rather me go back to the other room.


She said she didn't care, but as soon as I started trying to get the baby back to sleep it became obvious that she didn't want me there.


I wound up back in the dog house.


I asked almost perbatem the way that I was instructed to ask. When she told me that I am a horrible husband because I didn't know how to comfort her I didn't defend or get upset. I asked again.


I understand that she needed something from me, I was willing to give it to her but I just didn't know how. I tried to ask for guidance and was shot down. I'll apologize to her again this morning for that, but what else do I need to do? How do I learn what my wife needs if she won't tell me?


I don't know what way is up

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It's your spirit that she's responding to.


You can mouth verbatim any good words, but if your tone, your body language, the look in your eye, the way you hold your mouth, in other words, the other 80% of communication which is non-verbal, are saying the opposite of the words, then she will respond to the bad with bad.


Your non-verbal communication communicates your true spirit. (It's not the only way that your true spirit is communicated though.)


God has a clearly defined divine order. I pray for divine order in your home.


The order is God first - and a married man proves to God that he puts God first by putting his wife first. After wife, then it's children, then job, (without a job, he cannot provide for his wife and children), then home, then church.


pink knows what you're doing. She knows that you're using your new born as a shield for yourself so that you can hide from your responsibility to her first.


flyboy, initiator / responder is real.

Domino or ripple effects are real.

Your great gifts that God gave you as a man, and the great responsibilities he gave you in exchange for the great gifts he gave you are real.

The real truth is real.


It would be foolish to continue to deny this truth. It would be even more foolish to run from it.....it is always the truth that sets us free.


And Gods ways always work. (On top of that, He will not be mocked. He may be patiently waiting, but in the end, he will not be mocked.)


Please flyboy, you have got to start L.O.V.E. ing your wife. You have got to be a brave warrior and initiate anyway. You can not give up. Read goingsolo's latest post. This is where you're heading if you don't get this right right now.


Love and truth, peace and forgiveness,


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You are shielding yourself by drawing attention away from dealing with your wife's emotions. You knew she was upset. You knew she NEEDED you to be engaged at that moment WITH HER. You knew there was an issue of her heart to resolve and you by-passed what she needed and decided that your daughter was more important than her. She saw the light my brother and your pride would not allow you to own it and make it right. That is your MO.


You move under the radar constantly flyboy. It is like a stealth aircraft. You are abusing your wife horribly and yet you pretend you have gone undetected.


Except that God has given you a wife for this very reason. She is created by God to push your buttons so that your covers are pulled. You have been exposed and you are angry about it. Truth has come to your home and finally God is calling you into accountability. You take out on pink what has been God's calling on your life from the moment you met Christ. With or without a wife you are called to be a Christ-like man. You are called to identify with Christ's Cross and pick it up DAILY and carry it.


Your form of manipulation is "bait and switch". You draw her in with promises of giving her tenderness and making her believe you will sincerely listen to her....AND THEN...as soon as you "hook" her...you change it up and make it about FLYBOY!! What you do, what you don't get, what she is not responding too, what she owes you, how hard you try and get crap from her....and on and on and on. All you have successfully done is proven to everyone that FLYBOY is on the THRONE of HIS OWN LIFE.


You are found out and it is a blessing flyboy. God loves you too much not to let you stay the same and miss out on all the blessings and provision for your life.


If you stubbornly resist God...His Word says that like a hammer His word will pound away at you until your carnal man breaks off of you. God's purposes are to break you free and out of your strongholds. You opened the door to a bad marriage by YOUR CONSISTENT ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR.


God is KIND in that His goodness is trying to lead you to repentance.


Make a Covenant with your eyes, your ears and your MOUTH. Seek His Kingdom first. Cry out to God and ask for His Holy Spirit to help you be quiet and LISTEN. Put a muzzle over your mouth as God's Word declares so that you will not be snared by the words of your own selfish man.

Only by pride comes contention ..He that troubles his own house shall inherit the wind.


There is contention in your home and YOU are the SOURCE of it. When you sow to the wind you will reap the whirlwind. Whatever you have spoken that is not in love will land in your lap.


Proverbs 13


He that keeps(guards) his mouth keeps his life: but he that opens wide his lips shall have destruction.


Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuses instruction: but he that regards reproof shall be honoured.


A scornful man does not listen to correction


Scornful in the Hebrew flyboy is a man who will not keep and guard his mouth...it means to mock, boast and to talk arrogantly.


Be teachable...learn...be open to correction and you will prosper.



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Listen to PIH...she speaks the truth to you out of love, and pure hope and desire for your marriage to work.


I agree with her and I see the same thing.


It's all about you...how you tried and she shot you down, etc.


It's been this way for MONTHS! Don't you want it to change?


Take Care,


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flyboy, PIH wrote to you:


You are found out and it is a blessing flyboy. God loves you too much not to let you stay the same and miss out on all the blessings and provision for your life.




Meditate on the fact that it is good that you now have the opportunity to change for the better.


It is the truth that sets us free.


We love you so much that we are giving you truths.....that will enable you to feel the greatest love of all one day - a healed marriage because you manned up and embraced your role as the man in the relationship....which is what God planned for you from the beginning of time....perfectly.


Now follow Him. Do it His way. Choose God. Choose pink.


You won't be sorry in the long run, even if it will be painful for you in the short term. Short term pain, for long term gain. Longest term: Eternity.





PS: When you took the baby from pink at your arrival to your Bible study, you used the baby as a way to distract yourself, and as a way to paint yourself as a good father, but it hurt pink. And your spirit then was bad too. This hurt pink too, because it hurts a wife to have to respond to a bad spirit.


The best father of all is one that treats his children's mother well. If you are not L.O.V.E.ing pink, and she is experiencing same old, same old with you, then you are not as good a father as you think you are. Ouch. Sorry. That is said out of love. Really. It is the truth that sets the stage for change for the better.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Ok I didn't take the baby to shield myself or to LOOk like a good father. i could care less about that. I wanted to hold my daughter believe it or not. I didn't do it in a big show, and I didn't do it to punish anyone. Is it not ok for a father to hold his daughter?


AFTER kissing my wife it is nearly the first thing I do when I get home. Sorry to be such a jerk that I miss my family while I am gone and this is the only way for me to interact with a two month old. I show my wife with hugs and kisses and words of love, I show my older daughters with hugs and words of love. I HOLD my baby girl and give her words of love.


I do not shield myself with my daughter. It goes back to the part about not knowing what I am supposed to do at any given moment and so I go back to what I was told last time...which was....YOU DON"T HELP WITH HER AT ALL. Ok I'm helping. Then its ALL YOU DO IS PAY ATTENTION TO HER.


There has to be a fine medium in there some where, and hopefully we have it figured out.


Don't worry though Pink and I have had a great discussion about this and I "think" it has been worked out. I know she'll read this but I'll ask her anyways when I get home to make sure.


I am trying to not be negative, and not get hung up on the rediculous conclusions that you come up with but it is very difficult for me.


Maybe if somebody were to say that "in my opinion you are being this way" rather than it being a fact that I am being a certain way...especially when it is not the case at all.


Now I remember why I had to take a break from this.

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There is still a TON that I have to work on but believe it or not things have been better around our house lately.


I don't interact well on this forum and have taken a step back from it and instead relied on our marriage group and more importantly the men's group.


I guess saturday night somebody had a word for me on the phone call? I don't know who it was but here would be a way for me to hear it.

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