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Hey first off let me start by saying that yes I did talk to Pink about the fact that I was in physical pain because of the lack of intimacy, but I made clear to say that I am not asking for a quickie or anything like that. I was trying to open the lines to talk about what was going on. I didn't expect her to give me a quickie or anything like that right then but it is an issue that needs to be taken care of. Our sex life is a joke and has been for as long as I can remember. Nothing seems to work.

 

Second part where she is calling me a liar for not going to watch her mom and take care of the kids so she can have a "break" I do so every single morning that she goes to work out. Some mornings she takes the two girls with her to day care and others she will leave them here with me. I have never one time told her that she couldn't go because the girls didn't have day care. I shuffle my day to make it work for her. She has a gym membership in town and knows that any time she wants to go work out, I will take over here and she can go. I have no problem taking over for a short bit for her to take a break.

 

My issue today is that she has told me that I will be watching her mom all day for her so she can relax here. She is paid through the state to take care of her mom. If something were to happen while she was "relaxing" then we could both get into serious trouble. The house is a two story, four bedroom house and she has access to two of the rooms to relax in as much as she wants. One of the rooms I put an air conditioner in and has a nice big TV with a satellite dish with DVR for her enjoyment.

 

She admitted on here that the last couple of days my attitude has been great and all of that, but when we tried to be intimate it all blew up in our faces. I am expected to be Don Juan and read her mind when I am trying to pleasure her. I ask for feedback and she tells me that she isn't a whore who is going to scream like they do on pornos.

 

They say if you want to be good at something,PRACTICE. I want to be good in bed for my wife, but once a week or every other week isn't enough practice. Then stack on trying to read her mind and it gets much much worse. Then add on that it is the very LAST priority in our lives no matter what else is going on or how good of a husband I am being and you have the perfect recipe for a train wreck.

 

I am going to catch heat for the rant but we asked nicely for help around this. I understand that this is a difficult subject area, but from what I understand Pink hasn't gone on to the women's only section to get help. Anyways, got to go get the baby down for a nap.

Edited by flyboy
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Guest Mrs.Clean

Flyboy,

 

I understand that you are frustrated with this. I think you need to call Joel personally. Because while I understand your frustration, just speaking as a woman here...your frustration isn't going to get you anywhere with Pink in the sexual arena, you know? We have to figure out how to get you two over this "hump" (poor choice of words, eh?) so to speak without you making Pink feel pressured OR angry and resentful.

 

I know it is hard for a man to imagine, but think about it. For NINE months, her body was not her own. She didn't feel like herself. The things that she normally liked she didn't anymore, things that have felt good for her entire life didn't feel good anymore. She felt sick sometimes, fat other times, tired ALL of the time. Then she has the baby, and her body totally changes. Physically, her body parts are not back to normal from having the baby...even 7 months down the road...I think that it takes almost a year for your sexual organs to start to feel like "your own" again after having a baby. Add breastfeeding into that...and it's almost like your body belongs to someone else. By the end of the day, I know Pink is all TOUCHED out. If anyone else touches her, she's probably going to SCREAM or even worse, go postal on someone. Hmmm....lemme guess who she's letting loose on? Flyboy? I remember feeling that way. Ugh. Seriously, I remember thinking if my husband even put his hand on my shoulder, I was going to lose it!

 

Add all of your relationship problems into that, and we are talking about a big hurdle for you two to get over.

 

We really need to bring in the "big guns" here, meaning Joel. I really think that he feels very strongly that Pink is a good woman, and a good wife, and he knows that she is not being "mean" on purpose...(and I agree), so he will speak to her from that position, and I think it will make a lot more progress with her than your posts about how you are physically in pain because you haven't had sex.

 

Seriously. I understand the physiology of all of that, but we have men who have pursued their wives for YEARS with no sexual release. I understand that it might hurt...but you need to not say anything and just give that pain and that physical issue to God. This is part of your death to yourself right now.

 

I'm not saying that NO sex is okay in a recovering marriage, but until we can get your wife relatively comfortable with giving you some sort of physical release you need to not complain about the lack of it.

 

Here is a little visual picture...say pink is about 10 steps away from giving you that physical intimacy that you long for. And because you are being nice and patient and selfless and christlike, she begins to move toward you...two more steps...then after a few more days, she moves two more steps...now she is only 6 steps away from you. Then you complain about the physical pain, or the lack of intimacy and she is likely to move back to not only 10 steps away from you...but maybe even 12...and you have to start even further behind than you were before.

 

Any woman is like this in her position. Not just pink. And I understand the breastfeeding thing...and the progesterone issues. Fortunately she IS excercising, which will help...but if you two can work on the emotional stuff, she will at least want to have sex with you a few times a week.

 

Take Care,

Julie

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Hey Julie thanks for taking the time to explain all of that to me. I understand that I am making a big issue out of the intimacy thing, but it is something that is bothering Pink just as much as me. It's like when it comes to that part we are complete strangers or something. Her ex caused a lot of issues around her "performance" so to speak which hasn't helped.

 

Then the late nights with the older two and the baby sleeping in our bed makes it all that much worse.

 

I have texted Joel trying to get him in on this but haven't heard back from him, and I also spoke to him on the men's call last week. It really doesn't seem like anything helps. They will say to do something on the phone and as soon as we get off she is telling me what she is going to do and how wrong J & K both are. My understanding was that neither of us are supposed to pick and choose what part of the ministry we were going to follow.

 

I understand the physiological part that she is going through, especially after your description. The problem is it seems like she LOOKS for things wrong so that she doesn't have to go "there" with me. Then when I am good enough that she can't find anything she will find something wrong with "that" itself!

 

We BOTH agree that something needs to change. She doesn't think that I care if she get's there, and I don't really know any other way to show her I do care.

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Seriously. I understand the physiology of all of that, but we have men who have pursued their wives for YEARS with no sexual release. I understand that it might hurt...but you need to not say anything and just give that pain and that physical issue to God. This is part of your death to yourself right now.

 

Ah - yea, like every man in the men's ministry that gave their word and commitment to Joel to learn how to be Christlike.

 

Sorry - hard to read this intimacy stuff and be sympathetic, Flyboy !!!! Been working on winning my Wife's heart back for 13 months now.

 

I was in physical pain because of the lack of intimacy
- Please tell me your kidding!

 

Flyboy, as a guy, I see this physical stuff as a crock. There is no way I can believe you can not have self control. Yes - you both have the intimacy issue to deal with. Most recovering marriages probably do. The "connection" your Wife expected from you as you were to be a husband is broke. You done and broke it buddy, when you failed that part of husbandhood.

 

The connection, is what is going to create the desire for your Wife to respond back physically. You are just going to have to take it and restore the connection first. Just continue to behave as a mature man, rebuild that bond of trust she had for you, and then rebuild that connection.

 

Sorry to beat on you man, but my own personal opinion, is that the physical part is the easiest part of the whole process to beat. Maintaining honesty, integrity and virtue everyday, every waking moment, with every thought that passes through our brains. Thats the hard part. Do that with every breath you take, and trust me, the other pain you mention will be like relaxing in your hot tub on a Sunday evening!

 

Peace man.....TimothyPaul

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so TP I don't remember your story what did you do that pushed your wife that far?

 

I have physical control, but I was told to be vulnerable to my wife and that was my attempt. I was trying to tell her that I was hurting but that I was NOT asking her for a quickie and was wanting to get things figured out so we could both be happy. Probably was a poor choice in wording in hindsight. Of course I had it worked out much better in my head before I approached her and when I got to talking I just completely lost track of it all. I guess i should have taken notes or something. The point of the whole thing was to try to show her that I do in fact care about her getting there as well.

Edited by flyboy
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so TP what did you do that pushed your wife that far?

 

He kept bugging her about sex.

 

LOL. No, I don't know all his story, but you really made that one too easy. Sorry.

 

I understand the physiological part that she is going through, especially after your description. The problem is

 

The problem is that even knowing that your wife is probably just absolutely SICK of being touched, you are still whining about not having sex. When my 3 were really young, YES, I felt like my skin was literally sore all over from being touched and patted and pulled on, and my nerves were FRIED from having to give out loving touches to all these little people all day long. And then here comes my husband......

 

Be patient. Then, be more patient. Based on how you are STILL making such a big deal about this, even after learning that you need to lay down your life for her FIRST, then you probably have made her pretty miserable about it in the past. She may want to know that you are not in this just to get lots of sex and then lapse back into your old behaviors. Each day without a fight about this will be healing to her.

 

Blessings,

Gracey

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Actually that was pretty funny.

 

J&K say that as part of the healing process, she is supposed to open up to my physically. We were TOLD to have two quickies and one long love making session PER WEEK! I couldn't use that as ammunition however and not do my part which was to go first, die to myself and put her first.

 

SO I did that. When the sex wasn't there the first week I was patient. When it wasn't there the second week I was patient. By the third week I started to wonder if this program was about making me a zombie slave with no emotions what so ever or if this intense DESIRE that God gave me for sexual intimacy with my wife was something that I was supposed to have or if like Pink has suggested...I am just a selfish bastard because I want to get naked with my very beautiful wife who likes to parade around in nothing but a t shirt....if I don't make a move towards her then she is CONVINCED that I am cheating on her....if I do make a move towards her then I am selfish because I want to be intimate with her.

 

Anyways, I know people are trying to help with the comments but it really doesn't help. I appreciate Mrs. Clean and June for their care and the time they put in to writing on here to me. I understand that I am the most dense man in the world and I probably need my own special day complete with a helmet and medal and all of that so reading what they have written to me I do notice how careful they are to say what they want and need to say without attacking or calling names...unless it really is called for.

 

Sorry I am completely scatter brained right now. I'll probably come back later and edit this so it makes more sense.

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J&K say that as part of the healing process, she is supposed to open up to my physically. We were TOLD to have two quickies and one long love making session PER WEEK! I couldn't use that as ammunition however and not do my part which was to go first, die to myself and put her first.

 

I know J&K know your situation better then anyone, but now, just maybe for a time, that won't work for Pink.

 

.if I don't make a move towards her then she is CONVINCED that I am cheating on her....if I do make a move towards her then I am selfish because I want to be intimate with her.

 

Its a balancing act. We were just talking about this on the men's call on Tuesday. Still consider, (correct me if I am wrong ladies) but men and women just come from a different place when it comes to intimacy. For women, its all about the emotional bonding and that connection I mentioned earlier. For men, its all about ego and physical satisfaction. Both are just different, certainly neither are wrong. So, I still think, if Pink isn't being forthcoming, there must be something missing in the "connection" part. And that may not be your fault, but you need to figure out how to heal that part of her and create that connection and just be patient. Her season of healing is on God's timetable, not yours.

 

And move on her just enough, so that she knows you are interested and just figure out when to pull back so she still feels safe. And eventually, you will restore the connection. But dealing with a woman's emotions is like tuning a Steinway piano. You tighten that string just a bit to much and for some reason its just sounds wrong. The string too loose and again, its just wrong. A piano can be so close, that even the concert pianist may not hear it, but he can feel it. It just resonates incorrectly. God can feel it, Pink can feel it. Guys like us, well we are just a little slow when it comes to figuring a female heart.

 

so TP what did you do that pushed your wife that far?

 

He kept bugging her about sex.

 

Hah!!! Exact opposite!!! Very passive guy... But I'll get it right when we remarry!!!

 

TP

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Guest Mrs.Clean

Oh, Flyboy...how quickly we stumble and fall, huh?

 

You mentioned that Joel and Kathy taught you that you should have two quickies a week and one long session a week, right? Yep. That's what they teach. That is what you should be WORKING UP TO. That is where you should be in oh, say, around SIX MONTHS. So, let me know in SIX MONTHS if you are still dying to yourself and working hard at this (which is what you are doing, I will give you that) and Pink is not responding with sex in some form 2-3 times a week. Okay? IF a wife is not responding at that point, and we see that it is an issue with her, we will address that issue with her PRIVATELY.

 

It is NEVER your place to address that issue with her during this time in your marriage recovery.

 

NEVER.

 

Clear?

 

NEVER.

 

You initiate in nice, loving ways. Keep a journal to yourself of ways you initiated...STUDY your wife. Okay, Monday night, I tried to rub her feet and she liked that, she said she did. She told me that she could fall asleep if I did that for a while. So, next Monday, I am going to do it, and I am going to tell her that I want her to FALL ASLEEP while I do it. As a man, you won't think that this counts as initiating...but for a woman in Pinks situation, I promise you, it is. The NEXT night, draw her a bath or run her a shower and ask if you can come in and wash her back for her. What about offering to blow dry her hair for her?

 

These are ways that you can PHYSICALLY express an interest in your wife, while also meeting her emotional needs and also initiating. Initiating for a wife doesn't mean you verbally SAY you want sex. Trust me, she knows you want sex. We ALL know you want sex.

 

But, if you are reading her string, she is expressing to you that she has needs that are not being met. She is SCREAMING for those needs to be met. I know that they are the most difficult needs for you to meet...because you don't really understand them and you are still learning. This is where you pick up that air of humility and that teachable attitude, and you show her that you are not afraid to strike out. That you adore her and desire her and you want her every need to be met. If you can't figure out how to meet those needs emotionally today, then you will try more tomorrow.

 

She mentioned on her string that looking into her eyes and kissing her softly and gently really meant a lot to her. Can you do that more often? That is something you can do with the baby in your bed. Trust me, my honeymoon night will be spent with TWO babies in my hotel room...and they are not going to be stopping me ONE SINGLE BIT! What they don't know won't hurt 'em!

 

But right now, I can't stress enough to you that the more you make it clear to Pink that you want and need sex, the LESS she is going to want it. Period. She has to FEEL and KNOW that you will go the rest of your marriage WITHOUT having sex with her and still feel satisfied because you are enjoying just being with her and having a relationship with her and meeting her needs.

 

Yes, we know that this would make you a SAINT...but every woman deep down wants to know that if she was in a horrible accident and lost her arms and her legs and her beautiful face and then she got cancer and went bald and all she could do was lay there in bed and BE...that her husband would STILL love her and want to know her and talk to her and honor her heart.

 

I know again...that man would be nominated for sainthood...but then again, wasn't Christ OUR original SAINT?

 

That is what she is asking for from you.

 

Go back to where you were after the intensive and realize that there isn't ANYTHING on this earth that you wouldn't do for this woman who you love. And then do it.

 

And for goodness sakes...do you understand that this is a breastfeeding woman? Do you realize that she is not going to put on fourteen layers of clothes so that you don't get turned on just to take them off every 4-6 hours to latch her (adorable and loved) lifesucking parasite onto her breast? Nope. And realize that after pregnancy and breastfeeding, the hormones are really fluctuating...not just progesterone, but also many of the hormones regulated by the thyroid (Mr. Nurse, you should know this). My endocrine system went NUTS after my third baby, and I would wake up in a puddle of sweat in my bed a few times a night. It was TRULY terrible. I would have slept in the icemaker if I could figure out a way to fit.

 

Flyboy...you are totally LOSING ground here with your attitude. Please figure out a way to get back to that humble, teachable, servants heart...where you will just DO ANYTHING for your wife. I promise you that I've seen her be a quick responder to you when you truly get it right. She will turn around...AFTER you go first.

 

I am on your side...I am on Team Flyboy and Team Pink. You two hang in there and don't give up on this. This is a very normal speedbump that you are hitting right now...it is the post intensive honeymoon crash. You guys are just getting a worse case of it than normal because of your life circumstances (Pink starting to work, you being in school, new baby, two older girls, etc). You can get through this, but Flyboy, YOU are going to have to be the one that pulls you two out of this mess.

 

Take Care,

Julie

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Hey Julie real quick. The two quickies and one long session were our TAKE HOME instructions to work on immediately. Not an end goal. My attitude has completely stunk the last few days and it embarrasses me to say the least. I could give you excuses why I have begun down that road, but surprisingly I won't. I will however tell you that I am going to try to get back to loving her in what ever way she needs and go from there.

 

That said I have to apologize to Jeff, Kimberly and the other lady that were all trying so hard to talk some sense into me tonight. I got angry and let my pride completely take over. I am embarrassed by my actions and the way that I spoke to and about my wife. I also need to apologize to Joel. I know that you are just trying to help our marriage out and I also know that you are extremely busy so the time that you do to take with us I need to be quiet more and listen more.

 

I am going to try to get back to where I was before the intensive which involves time reading. I don't know how to work that in to the schedule just quite yet but I am sure it will get figured out.

 

Thanks again to all who have invested so much time into my marriage in the hopes of getting through to an often times arrogant and pig headed man.

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Hey TP I would love to discuss this further but my big fat mouth has gotten me into enough trouble for a life time so I will just hope to catch up to you some time on the phone call and hash it out then. Thanks!

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Flyboy,

You breathed out the "spirit of divorce" over your bride last night -- your attitude continues to be one of self-righteousness to the point of you being willing to turn your wife into the State just because you don't want to blooming fulfill a promise made to Pink about relieving her DURING the day of tending to her mom, your MIL. You are going to school for nursing but you won't even oblige your wife and MIL by sitting with her for 90 minutes (occasionally) so that Pink can get a break.

 

Pink has been a loving helpmeet to you and has told you what she NEEDS -- and you refuse her. She tells you that she loves it when you hold her head in your hands and kiss her tenderly -- and you said, "That is only for special occasions" -=== GOOD GOSH, man. What woman wants to ML to a husband like you who cannot/WILL not do what she tells you she would really like.

 

Joel asked you if you wanted to divorce your wife (after a very heated discussion about the MIL and the State where you were willing to turn your wife in over something that is NOT even illegal - it's not immoral or unethical --- it COULD have been a very loving gesture for you to do)... and you said, "Yes" and a few other choice curse words.

 

This is the "spirit of divorce" -- it came from satan and the pit of hell that wants you to continue to be self-absorbed and your marriage to be ruined. You have allowed satan to guide your steps and words -- even though he is the father of lies who came to steal, kill and destroy --- for whatever stupid reason, you would prefer to follow him instead of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

prefer to be right instead of in a happy marriage and blessing your wife

 

"Lay down your life for your wife" and you won't sit for 90 minutes at your MIL's (using that time to study for your classes) to bless your wife and who knows -- possibly even to ML at the end of the 90 minute "break."

defend, argue, self-protection, explain, interrupt,== this is what you've been about nearly every time I've listened to you on the calls, PLUS the occasional cussing (as last night) -- YOU having to be the one who is always right, forgetting that at least 80% of the time the wife IS right (her feelings are ALWAYS going to be her feelings 100% of the time) and since you don't know when the 20% of the time is that you might be right you are supposed to be LAYING DOWN YOUR LIFE, lay down YOUR RIGHTS. For SIX months you are to solely focus on doing this... and you did not even make it a few weeks, Flyboy.

 

Since the intensive you had improved, some. Pink praised you for those things. However, you have brought great emotional pain upon Pink, too. the flirtations with a family member were just 2-3 weeks ago.... and yet, you want to call the STATE about Pink resting in her own home while you take her place at her mom's.

 

plank and the splinter

 

The helpers (including me) were trying to get you to understand that we are FOR you and Pink and ML. That GOD is FOR you and Pink and ML. You continued to disregard ALL of it because YOU have to be "right" -=- and with that attitude no one wins, especially Pink.

 

There are plenty of men on this forum that would have loved to be in a position where their wife was still sleeping in the same bed - - astonished that you would be willing to give this all up with your words of "Yes I want a divorce" because you HAVE to be right about the MIL care-giving... because you refuse to show love in other ways to Pink the way that she has asked you to show love.

 

Read Proverbs 4, especially vs 23 and beyond:

23"Watch over your heart with all diligence,

For from it flow the springs of life."

24Put away from you a deceitful mouth

And put devious speech far from you.

26Watch the path of your feet

And all your ways will be established.

27 Do not turn to the right nor to the left;

Turn your foot from evil.

 

the spirit of divorce -- pretty evil

 

 

IF you are a believer, a Christian, the Holy Spirit is within you -- and "greater is He that is in you than he who is in the world." IF you are a believer, you have the power to overcome the evil one. IF you are a believer.

 

IF you are a believer, show it and REPENT!

 

 

prayerfully,

June of

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Guest Mrs.Clean

Wow, sounds like I missed some really "great" fireworks on the call last night. :rolleyes:

 

I don't know WHY Pink doesn't want to sleep with you. (Insert sarcasm here)

 

Like a great helpmeet, Pink was picking up on this terrible attitude (as June said, the spirit of divorce) earlier, and that is why she couldn't connect with you enough to make love. God has allowed her alarms to sound on this attitude way before the outward manifestations become visible to US.

 

Never question Pink again. If her alarm bells are going off and she just can't make love with you, there is a complete and total justified reason.

 

Then fix it and pray that she'll want to make love with you in the future. Because right now, it's probably questionable! :rotfl:

 

Take Care,

Julie

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Abuse/Power/Control QUESTIONS TO ASK of husband about how he treats his wife ….and of the wife about the husband (NEVER the other way around). When answering, just check off the ones that are a “yes“ -- do

not defend, explain or overlook any question -- do not excuse it as “this is how our family is” or “that is how I grew up” -- simply use the “yes” or “no” method with either an "x" or a check-off.

 

Since husbands might not necessarily recall their bad behavior, the wife most probably will, so it is important for both husband and wife to honestly answer these questions. UNLESS the wife feels “safe” enough to answer, she should only use this list when feeling safe enough to discuss it without recoil and retaliation. Determining the type of abuse is VERY helpful in beginning the healing process in a damaged marriage relationship.

 

Have you ever exhibited these behaviors, even ONE time?:

Beating ___ biting ____ choking ____ grabbing ____ hitting _____ kicking _____ pinching ____ pulling hair ___ punching ____ pushing ____ restraining ____

scratching ____ shaking ____ shoving ____ slapping ____ excessive tickling____ twisting arms____ using weapons ____ spanking ____ smothering ____ tripping ____

If yes: Physical Abuse

 

Have you ever treated your wife like a servant ____

Do you make all of the decisions ____ act like “Master of the Castle” ____

If yes: Male Privilege Abuse

 

Have you received therapy, OR gone to seminary, OR used self-help books then come back and turned this knowledge/info against the wife, but do take responsibility for personal behaviors ______

If yes: Knowledge Abuse

 

Have you ever demanded unwanted or bizarre sexual acts ____

Made physical attacks to sexual parts of the body ____

Treated her as a sex object ____

Interrupted sleep for sex ______ forced her to have sex ____

Ever exhibit extreme jealousy ____

If yes: Sexual Abuse

 

Have there ever been displays by the husband of

hostile humor ____ publicly criticizes____ degrades her appearance ____ degrades her parenting skills ____ degrades her housekeeping ____ degrades her cooking____ forces her to eat foods she doesn’t like ____

If Yes: Humiliation Abuse

 

Do you make your wife responsible for everything in life ____ ie bills ____ parenting ____ etc ____

If Yes: Responsibility Abuse

 

Have you hurt your wife and then do not allow her to receive medical treatment ____

Have you ever forbid her to receive medical treatment for normal health issues. ____

If Yes: Medical Abuse

 

Have you ever used Scripture and words like “submission” and “obey” to abuse ____

Used spiritual language to defend any hurtful words or actions ____

If Yes: Scriptural/Religious Abuse

 

Have you ever used the children to give messages ____

used visitation rights to harass ____ uses child support as leverage ____

If Yes: Using Children Abuse

 

Have you ever exerted control regarding:

what is done ____ who is seen____ who is talked to ____

limits or listens in on phone calls ____ sabotages car ____ restricts outside interests ____ insists on moving frequently ____ required your wife to stay in the house ____

restricts access to the mail ____ deprives your wife of friends ____

If Yes: Isolation Abuse

 

Have you ever denied your wife of basic rights ____

used the law to enforce your power ____ deprived her of a private or personal life ____ Have you ever mandated duties of your wife ____ control everything ____ (ie, the amount of bath water she uses ____)

If Yes: Power Abuse

 

Have you ever had spies checking on her ____ follows her to activities ____

ie store ____, church ____, work ____, etc just to make sure she is where she “should” be ____ Have you displayed extreme distrust and jealousy ____

If Yes: Stalking Abuse

 

Have you ever put her down____ called her names____ played mind games ____ commits mental coercion ____ exhibits extreme controlling behaviors ____

withheld affection ____ caused her to lose her identity ____

If Yes: Emotional Abuse

 

Have you ever threatened to end the relationship ____

threatened to emotionally or physically harm her ____ threatened her life ____

threatened to take the children ____ threatened to commit suicide ____

Threatened to report her to authorities ____ Forced your wife to break the law ____

If Yes: Threat Abuse

 

Have you ever:

puts restriction on her employment ____ made her ask for money ____

give her an allowance and take the money she earns ____

required her to account for every penny she spends ____

If Yes: Economic Abuse

 

Have you ever:

ruined her credit ____

put the car(s), house, recreational equipment, and/or property in ONLY your name ____ spend her money ____ used her credit or savings to make her dependent on you ____

If Yes: Financial Abuse

 

Have you ever:

used looks, actions, gestures, and/or voice to cause fear ____

argued continuously ____ demand that your wife says what you want to hear ____

If Yes: Intimidation Abuse

 

Have you ever during your marriage:

punched a wall ____ destroyed property ____ broken down a door ____

Pounded on a table ____ abuses pets ____ etc

If Yes: Property Violence

 

When speaking have you:

Used curse words ____ accused your wife ____ called her names ____

used past to control and manipulate ____ committed mental blackmail ____

made unreasonable demands ____

If Yes: Verbal Abuse

 

Have you ever used silence as a weapon ____ punished her by not speaking to her ____ unwilling to communicate ____ do not express emotion ____

refuse to repeat back statements to your wife ____

If Yes: Silence Abuse (aka in Hegstrom’s book as the “Silent Knight”)

 

Have you ever

used jealousy as a sign of love ____

controlled what wife does ____ who she sees ____ who she talks to ____

controlleds when/where your wife goes ____

refused to let wife participate in activities outside the house ____

drop in “just to watch” ____ isolated wife from friends and family ____

is possessive of wife in every area of life ____

If Yes: Jealousy Abuse

 

 

IF ONLY ONE answer in a category is a Yes, then the entire category is an ABUSIVE behavior that the husband has exhibited, making the husband an abuser. IF you have repented fully (in ways that are wholly acceptable by your wife) and no longer act in these ways, then you are a recovered abuser. THAT is the goal.

Most men in an unhappy marriage are abusive in at least 6 categories - some more, some less. Reminder, however, that only ONE category still an abuser makes.

 

WHAT IS ABUSE ?

Physical Abuse:   Any touch not given in love, respect, and dignity.

Emotional Abuse: Any communication, admonition, reprimand, or reproof that does not uplift, edify, or bring conflict resolution.

 

Are you aware that there are 21 forms of abuse? Some forms of abuse are so subtle that people accept them as normal. All forms of abuse are devastating and destroy individuals and their relationships. (per Paul Hegstrom)

 

Not accepting the reality of the abuse is detrimental to the marriage restoration. Humility is needed -- the Lord can help the humble - the teachable.

 

Need a reminder?: listen to J&K conference call with an abusive husband:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/jk_calls/march2010/Abuse_behavior_Checklist.mp3

 

 

So now, on to the process of bringing healing and breathing life into the marriage, towards an outrageously happy marriage. IF we can do it, You CAN do it!

 

*******

Am not sure what steps you need to take in this since you told JOEL LAST NIGHT that you wanted to divorce Pink and he approved the divorce, but I would recommend that to ever have a hope or prayer is that you answer this questionaire and get honest, get real, and get humbled!

 

prayefully submitted to you for your consideration,

June of

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Hey June I understand how it looked but that was not my point. I have no problem what so ever sitting with her mom and do so often. I did so most of the day yesterday for Pink so she could go work out and then later in the day get her hair done. I had better clarify that statement. What we had worked out in the past was that I would go and check on her mom every half our or so to make sure that she didn't need anything. In the past that was what Pink had asked me to do in order to bless her and allow her the freedom to come and go as she needed.

 

I had broken a promise in coming to see her as often as she needed. We talked that out last week and I had been making a concerted effort to go see her more often.

 

That would be great to get the 90 minutes or whatever to do my homework but with the taking care of her mom comes taking care of the kids. The older ones really aren't a problem at all and for the most part take care of themselves. They are very messy doing so but we are working with them to clean up after themselves. The baby is the one that consumes so much energy unless she is taking a nap.

 

When I met Pink and she told me what she did for a living I related with her because I had taken care of my grandparents and their farm for almost a year and a half. I understand how ungrateful family can be and just how hard of a job it really is. It doesn't sound like it is too much but sitting and waiting for someone to call you and ask you to do something for them, especially when you can't hardly understand them is very difficult.

 

I also understand that it came across that I was trying to "get her in trouble" with the State. I had no such thought at all. To me if I were doing that, it wouldn't be just a slap on the wrist but immediate termination and maybe even legal consequences which would have affected the whole family. I have never been a vindictive person so that surprised me that it went there. I understand that was where I took it but it was not on purpose and I apologize for that.

 

Last night I let my pride and anger take over and ran my mouth. I guess I have an answer to Joel's question about what I have faced that is just killing me. In the past I kept my mouth shut and did what ever it was that Pink was asking me no matter what I thought needed to happen or what I thought the truth was. I got away from that and I guess I need to get back to it.

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I have never been a vindictive person so that surprised me that it went there. I understand that was where I took it but it was not on purpose and I apologize for that.

 

"For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks." Mt. 12:34 So yes, this was in you and under pressure, it came out. If it wasn't there, it would not have come out. Like June keeps telling you, it is time to get honest about what is in your heart toward your wife.

 

If your actions and attitudes were as good as you claim they have been, you would be getting different results.

 

And WOW to your arrogance that you are still defending yourself when Joel told Pink last night that they are in full support of a DIVORCE since you are saying you want one. If you had an ounce of humility, you would be quaking in your boots, wondering what Pink will choose to do. But no, you just get on here and tell us how you didn't really say what you clearly said, and that you were "surprised" by it and didn't say it on purpose, and how you are really this great guy who sits with MIL and the kids while Pink goes out to pamper herself. WRONG. You are a pompous, arrogant child who demands his own way, bashes his wife over the head with teachings that he WAS TOLD not to hit her with, and then has a temper tantrum when called on the carpet and threatens to turn her in to the authorities and divorce her. Wow. Just Wow.

 

Ask God to allow you to see yourself clearly. You have rose-tinted glasses when it comes to yourself.

 

Gracey

Edited by gracey520
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Guest Mrs.Clean

:(

 

I'm just so sad. Flyboy, I thought you were going to stand up and be the man Pink wanted you to be. It sounds like I should have been on the call last night. Sounds like you really pushed Pink AND Joel over the line.

 

A few weeks ago, when Pink posted on her string that she was ready to kick you out, I gently corrected her...saying that when a man is trying, we don't encourage kicking him out/divorce.

 

If Joel said that Pink could divorce you, then that means HE'S determined that you have given up. Wow. Joel is the BIGGEST proponent of men on this forum. He LOVES you guys, and if there is ANY chance you guys are trying, even just a smidge, Joel will be your biggest cheerleader. So for me to hear that you have changed his mind about you is pretty saddening for me.

 

You can turn it around, I'm sure. In God there is ALWAYS hope...but you sure have dug yourself a pretty deep hole. This sounds like behavior that would have been more fitting PRE intensive.

 

Take Care,

Julie

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I clearly deserve all of this. I was trying to clarify something about what I said and what I meant to say. I honestly had no intention of ratting my wife out at all. It was all wrong to speak that way at all to her and I am sorry for that.

 

Is there a recording of the phone call last night? It says it is recorded but is it kept? I would like to be able to replay it so I can hear how foolish I sound. Maybe that would help me break through all of this and see how I am coming across to my wife. Thanks

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You are right Julie I did push Joel and Pink over the line and it embarrasses me to have acted that way. There's really no excuse for it and it was my pride and anger that pushed me into saying that I wanted a divorce. It doesn't matter what was in my heart or what I have meant to show my wife, it matters what she receives from me every day and I forgot that. Thanks again for all of your efforts. It really is appreciated and I am sorry that I don't show that in a better healthier way.

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We lose our way,

We get back up again

Never too late to get back up again,

One day, you gonna shine again,

You may be knocked down but not out forever,

Lose our way, we get back up again,

So get up, get up

You gonna shine again

It's never too late, to get back up again

You may be knocked down, but not out forever,

May be knocked down, but not out forever!

 

TobyMac

 

 

I sing this to myself everytime I nose dive. Yea - your right, I sing it a lot......TP

Edited by TimothyPaul
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Hey June I understand how it looked but that was not my point. I have no problem what so ever sitting with her mom and do so often. I did so most of the day yesterday for Pink so she could go work out and then later in the day get her hair done. I had better clarify that statement. What we had worked out in the past was that I would go and check on her mom every half our or so to make sure that she didn't need anything. In the past that was what Pink had asked me to do in order to bless her and allow her the freedom to come and go as she needed.

 

I had broken a promise in coming to see her as often as she needed. We talked that out last week and I had been making a concerted effort to go see her more often.

 

That would be great to get the 90 minutes or whatever to do my homework but with the taking care of her mom comes taking care of the kids. The older ones really aren't a problem at all and for the most part take care of themselves. They are very messy doing so but we are working with them to clean up after themselves. The baby is the one that consumes so much energy unless she is taking a nap.

 

When I met Pink and she told me what she did for a living I related with her because I had taken care of my grandparents and their farm for almost a year and a half. I understand how ungrateful family can be and just how hard of a job it really is. It doesn't sound like it is too much but sitting and waiting for someone to call you and ask you to do something for them, especially when you can't hardly understand them is very difficult.

 

I also understand that it came across that I was trying to "get her in trouble" with the State. I had no such thought at all. To me if I were doing that, it wouldn't be just a slap on the wrist but immediate termination and maybe even legal consequences which would have affected the whole family. I have never been a vindictive person so that surprised me that it went there. I understand that was where I took it but it was not on purpose and I apologize for that.

 

Last night I let my pride and anger take over and ran my mouth. I guess I have an answer to Joel's question about what I have faced that is just killing me. In the past I kept my mouth shut and did what ever it was that Pink was asking me no matter what I thought needed to happen or what I thought the truth was. I got away from that and I guess I need to get back to it.

 

defending, arguing, interrupting, explaining, excusing, etc and now cussing and stating you want a divorce!

 

I have HEARD you on the phones, FB, plenty of times --- this IS HOW YOU ACT -- you do NOT keep your mouth shut -- you do NOT have a good attitude with Pink -=- have your read Pink's thread -- OMG -- hers is the much more accurate description because she is sharing her feelings and she senses what you are doing - God put this in her to be discerning

 

YOU are totally deceiving yourself.

 

Yes, the phone call was recorded. am not sure when they will post it.

 

I feel very badly for Pink putting up with all this JUNK -- hopefully she won't put up with it anymore.

 

I don't want to read anymore from you that includes the word "but"

 

Did you go through the abuse list -- did you mark which all ones you have done? If not, why not.... you need to be in super humble-pie mode if you even have a prayer of not getting booted out.

 

my .02

June of

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Yes I went through the list which was an eye opener. I am sorry that I didn't reply to you about it earlier. That was very helpful to see all of the different ways a person can be abusive/abused. I will make it a point to go back through it on a regular occasion to make sure that I am not going down that road again. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

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Yes I went through the list which was an eye opener. I am sorry that I didn't reply to you about it earlier. That was very helpful to see all of the different ways a person can be abusive/abused. I will make it a point to go back through it on a regular occasion to make sure that I am not going down that road again. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

 

The list is ONLY GOOD if you apply it to yourSELF, FB. and not look at as just an exercise about:

That was very helpful to see all of the different ways a person can be abusive/abused.

 

You need to list it, ACKNOWLEDGE EVERY AREA of abuse to Pink -- apologize for EVERY AREA of ABUSE, and REPENT OF EVERY AREA OF ABUSE --

 

head knowledge and general terms get you NOWHERE!

 

June of

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Would it make you feel better if I rephrased that?

 

That was very helpful to see all of the different ways I as a husband can be abusive towards my beautiful wife without even being aware of it. Thank you so much for pointing this out!

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Guest Mrs.Clean

Very good, flyboy.

 

Yes, the calls are recorded. They are posted every so often in the "recorded calls" section. If you two pay 10 dollars a month for the couples calls, you should be able to access them. Same thing for mens calls, ladies calls...if you are paying for the calls, you get access to the recordings.

 

Check out December 6...that was when Mr. Clean F bombed Kay. Classic. Someday, you all will listen to yourselves and be truly embarassed for your behavior.

 

Joel says all of the time that he thinks back to what a lump head he was back when he was still learning...but then, don't we all? I have done lump head things, too.

 

Just try not to do any more...your poor wife is so hurt!

 

Take Care,

Julie

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