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The tarp was the best that we had at the time and the hope was to get it all put away by now. There are several cords of dry wood that we worked together on and put away. There are also several more down in the woods that needed to be put away.


But I spent several hours cleaning the garage out when i could have put away the wood because that was what Pink NEEDed.


The wood that is in the driveway and covered by this horrible tarp had one hole in it when I put it on, but it was long enough to double over itself and cover its hole.


If pink would like I can go stack that wood for her.


There is nothing you are going to tell me is going to make it ok for Pink to try to punish me by keeping me away from the kids.


Oh and I'm not sure if you just completely ignore the certain posts that I discussed the CE thing or if you just don't have the time to read through it all. I have had CE on this for several weeks now and the hold up was to get the wireless card for it so that I could use it at school.

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Does any of this really matter?


I am not going to quit the nursing program and I won't give up the computer that I need for my classes. So what good is getting a lie detector test? I get that done and show that I am not a man whore like she thinks then she is going to be ok with the program?


It looks to me like a big waste of time and money because I know darn well what the next step is and it's not going to happen.



I understand how she feels and how it looks about my choice to continue in the program but it is what it is. One minute she understands, and then the next she doesn't.

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Guest Mrs.Clean
Does any of this really matter?


I am not going to quit the nursing program and I won't give up the computer that I need for my classes. So what good is getting a lie detector test? I get that done and show that I am not a man whore like she thinks then she is going to be ok with the program?



Then, nope. None of it matters. Why are you even on the forum then?


You are just wasting our time.


We have advised you that the best way to save your marriage is to:


1. Quit the nursing program

2. Give up your personal computer (that you have used to look at porn)

3. Take a lie detector test.


Unless you do all three of these things, we would absolutely NOT advise your wife to have ANY contact with you whatsoever. Period.


Until you can put your marriage before anything else, we can't help you.


This is just us and our advice within this ministry. But, we stand firm and together on this. It is our opinion here at J&K's ministry that you cannot move forward toward healing your wife until you do these things.


If you want different advice, I suggest you go somewhere else, because the advice isn't going to change here.


Thank you,


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Ok I went to meet up with 631 to see my daughter and got a text that I wasn't going to get my hour with her this week because I had to talk to Joel about something. I got word back from Joel that he doesn't know what is going on and that we will talk on Monday. Does anybody else have any idea of why all of a sudden I don't even get my hour?

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Guest Mrs.Clean



The reason you don't get your hour with Sarah is because Hope and 631 have their own personal issues to deal with and right now they can't be bothered with you and your visits with Sarah. As usual, Flyboy, you have failed to realize that the world doesn't revolve around you and YOUR wants and needs. Hope is very close to giving birth and her and 631 have their OWN marriage to strengthen. You know this...or have you forgotten. A christlike man would realize that it takes a great deal of time and energy to maintain a marriage, and that ALWAYS has to come first. And for 631, he is actively putting his marriage and wife first.


It is unfortunate that it has come in the way of your visiting with Sarah. I understand that you care for your daughter a great deal, and that you want to see her. I'm sure Pink is working on a way for you to see her...it's just going to take a few days to make an alternate plan. Surely you understand that, right?


And with you being abusive and vindictive (taking a computer from the home, flicking off family members that have angered you while driving by) it surely doesn't go very far toward making YOUR WIFE (she still is your wife) feel safe in handing over your daughter to you. I understand you're angry and you feel out of control and "plotted against" but that is truly not the case. Please understand that all of us are on your side, and we want what is best for you, Pink and Sarah, but right now, you just can't see that the way you are doing things is NOT the best for anyone.


As far as Joel not knowing what is going on...surely you can understand that. He is in an intensive and we haven't had the opportunity to fill him in on all of the details. You know how busy an intensive is...and how they burn the midnight oil every night. We have helpers calls every single thursday night, but on intensive weeks, Joel and Kathy are usually not on...as they were not this Thursday. Flyboy, we in this ministry help hundreds of couples on a daily basis. Some of us focus on couples who are our personal favorites (like me, I tend to focus on a few couples at a time...and you and Pink are one of them), and we think and pray about them often during every day. I have emailed Joel privately about you guys frequently...and I would have e mailed Joel about this...but I always try to wait until AFTER the intensive unless it is a complete emergency. Since I know Sarah is safe and healthy, and since I know that you can wait a few more days, I chose NOT to alert him to this situation. If you go to an attorney, you will have to wait more than a few more days to get to see your daughter, I promise. It takes WEEKS to get anything accomplished with an attorney...but you seem to feel that you know best...so go for it.


Seems to me that what you are choosing is STILL second best...and I wish you could SEE it like we see it from the outside.


We asked you to choose to put Pink and Sarah FIRST in your life by quitting the nursing program, giving up your computer and surrendering to a lie detector test. In doing that, you would have Sarah and Pink in your life EVERY SINGLE DAY. You would be blessed and happy and you would be FREE from all of this anger and upheaval.


Instead, you have chosen to continue with the nursing career, having your computer and pride (with no lie detector test). In exchange, you are giving up the opportunity to have Sarah every day, and are trading it in for seeing her every other weekend for the rest of her life, paying child support and NOT being married to Pink, who I believe you do love.


It's not right, Flyboy. Do you see that? I like you, I believe in you, and I KNOW you can do this! But what you are CHOOSING is not right! It is NOT the best thing for you, for Sarah or for Pink. How is seeing her dad every other weekend for the rest of her life THE BEST for Sarah? That SUCKS! I would give ANYTHING as a mother for my child...and if that meant I had to give up a career or money or pride or whatever, I would...oh, wait, I did! I used to have a very great career making LOTS of money, but I gave it up for my kids, and I miss it sometimes...and I miss the money sometimes...but I am so thankful that my kids are happy and thriving.


Damon, too. He was CERTAIN that we were CRAZY for asking him to give up his business in Missouri to move down here to be with me. We were asking him to JUST LEAVE IT. Not sell it (because he tried and it was taking too long), but to just leave it...and come down here to FL with NO MONEY, and just be a husband. He was thinking to himself, "that's crazy! I'm a man, I have to have a way to support my family!" And other people were telling him that, too. They were telling him that he was getting bad advice, that he would be crazy to just leave everything and come down here. But they were thinking from the WORLD's perspective and not from God's perspective. Damon was supposed to put ME first...put our family first...and leave all of that other stuff behind. ANd you know what? When he finally did? God blessed him for it. God gave him a great job, with great benefits that is stable. I would have NEVER forseen how well he's doing finanically. Honestly, I thought we would struggle and struggle, and maybe I'd have to go to work for a while. Nope. God has taken care of every detail for us...but Damon had to choose us first.


Flyboy, please wake up. Please choose Pink before it's too late. How much of this do you think she will be able to endure before she totally closes her heart off to you? Please, call Joel tomorrow...don't wait for him to call you...be proactive. Call him and figure out how to get PAST this bump...or canyon...maybe it's a canyon now. We had such high hopes for you! I remember Joel talking about how impessed he was with you and Pink as a couple when they met you at the intensive. I know even HE had high hopes for you two. Don't let satan take you on a ride straight AWAY from your lovely wife.


You know better than this, Flyboy.


Okay...I'm done. I've probably plead with you way too much. But, for some reason, I feel led to. Maybe God wants me to try to reason with you...who knows. Maybe you're beyond reason...who knows. But it doesn't hurt to try!


Take Care,


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It's so sad to see you lining up with all the other men who continue to put their selfish wants and desires ahead of blessing and loving their wife and family; as Julie and the other helpers have said over and over to you: we all KNOW you can do this; but are simply choosing to NOT lay your life down for a season of time; and accept the help that God and everyone's offering to teach you how to live as a real man here; one who is Christlike and loving in ALL of his actions! I can't really believe that you're happy with yourself and the situation that you've put yourself in; so why won't you just choose to stop being stubborn, stop being abusive to your family; let go of the pride and sinful sense of entitlement that you are manifesting; and just really focus on loving and blessing your wife and family?

You know, everyone in this ministry gives unselfishly of their time to support and encourage everyone who comes here for help; do you know why we do this? We do this because we care, because we don't want to see any more husbands, wives, or children be in the same lonely, sad, lost situations we've been in! Are these 'things' in your life really that important; that you'd put them above your wife and family? When you stand before God someday, and He asks you why you didn't love your wife enough to treat her with Christlike love, and continued to put your selfish wants ahead of being a real husband to her; what answer will you give?

Julie has given you some great advice here today; and I'm praying that you'll take time to really stop yourself in the midst of having this huge temper tantrum of yours; and seriously read and consider what she's written; take time to humbly fall on your face before God and seek His help here in turning this situation around, the future of so many people hinge on your actions and decisions right now! I'm praying that you'll choose to start following God's path for your life; instead of continuing to give in to the leading of the enemy; which only ends in destruction, death, and a very unhappy, sad, lonely life.

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Again and again you guys jump to conclusions without asking what the truth is. I have BEGGED Pink to take 631 and Hope out of the middle of this. Instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt or even attempting to clarify you cast judgment and condemnation and then tell me that we are friends! WoW please sign me up for the BFF news letter!


631 and hope being in the middle of our relationship has been an issue all along…… them being involved in issues they had no business being involved in It bothered Pink that Hope was involved and could read about our issues on the forum but she was afraid to say anything to her. I even posted on this very fact that Joel had said that 631 wasn’t supposed to be in the middle but NOTHING changed or was even addressed until it became too much for them and then all of a sudden it is ALL my fault that he was in the middle. There are multiple ways that we could have handled the hand off/drop off w/o involving them.


Before I get too far I want to say that it was NOT 631’s fault that they were in the middle and I tried to be reasonable with texting him and understand that it was Pink that was calling the shots. I texted him on multiple occasions about the need for Pink and I to have some sort of resolution that did NOT involve 631 being the go between. I could completely see that he was following Hopes heart when it came to scheduling time for me to see my daughter and I don't blame him one single bit.


Yes I lost my cool and flipped 631 off as we crossed paths. I am very sorry for that and will try to make amends to him for doing so.


As for Pink working so hard to make sure I get time with my daughter I really hope that you don’t believe that. There are multiple people in our church and within her family or mine that would be more than happy to be the go between. They are aware that we are separated and have volunteered to help. I also know that she is reacting to the hurt and have tried to be patient while waiting for her to decide to let me have time with our daughter.


In the last three weeks I have gotten ONE hour with my baby girl. I resent you being in the middle and calling the shots on me seeing my daughter. I have offered Pink several different ways we could work this out between us w/o having to go to an attorney but have been ignored up to this point. One hour a week was not ok and instead of going forward towards working together things went backward and my one hour was taken away from me. WHAT CHANGED???? What would have been the harm in letting me see her on the agreed upon time? The ONLY thing I asked for was more time with my daughter. I didn’t try to tell her how or when I just asked for more time. She told me to talk to 631 about it like she had no control or say in the matter. I asked several times to go through someone else because I understand that he has a lot going on in his life.


So there should have been no reason at all to pull my one hour out from under me at the last minute. When did YOU decide that I wasn’t going to be able to see her? Was it at 10am when we were supposed to be meeting at 11 and me being so excited to see my daughter I was already sitting waiting to see her or was it the night before? Why did they wait until the morning of to tell me?


Look when you told me that until I did ALL three things there would be no further “help” I understood that as to be saying you were going to quit messing with my life and leave me alone. I could care less what this ministry has to say at this moment and all of Pink’s little games are just making matters worse. I made a decision to put the long term ability to support my “family” over the short term and I am sticking to that decision.

Dropping the nursing program will change nothing between Pink and I. She puts a great show on to you guys on the phone call. The difference between her and I is that I show you guys who I am up front while she is afraid to be criticized and waits until we get off of the phone to criticize the ministry. She will deny it but she has on so many occasions looked me dead in the eye and said that she didn’t care what you guys said that she wasn’t going to do “it”….whatever “it” was. So YOU guys heard my reaction to her refusal to do her part and decided that everything is MY fault. And then like the night that I completely lost it to Joel and told her to divorce me she was LAUGHING. She got exactly what she wanted. She was out from under the light and I was smack dab back in the middle and she didn’t have to worry about being “traumatized” or pushed into making love.

So at this point it really is a waste of time to continue until you all realize that I am finishing the program no matter what you say. You see you guys are trying to use the bible and God’s will to force me into something that is really going against his will. You don’t think I have spent time talking with God about this? There have been so many steps along the way that he could have pulled the plug on my nursing program. So many doors have opened for me that had absolutely no right opening. I have put my program completely in God’s hands and told him that if he didn’t want me to do this then no problem, fail me out. Guess what I have one of the highest scores in the class and I hardly ever study. WHY? Maybe it is because God wants me to travel this path? Maybe it is to show Pink something or maybe it is to show you the “helpers” something I don’t know. The only thing I do know is that when I go to my Father with my fear, he has told me over and over that I am on the right track and above all he has my back.

I do know he isn’t proud of my actions yesterday and again I will try to make amends to 631 over that. I freaked out about not getting to see my daughter and lost my cool and I apologize for that.

I agree that Pink needs better than I can obviously give her. You guys want the easy answer that I am obviously doing something different than what I say because things aren’t changing like they should. How many times have I heard “If you were REALLY doing that then she wouldn’t be acting like this” or “ If my husband did all of that then I would LOVE him so MUCH” and it makes me completely sick. I offered you to come SEE how we lived and then tell me what I am doing wrong. Nobody has the time I understand but it was a serious offer I don’t know what to tell you folks except that dropping the program will do nothing to help our relationship.

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So just so you know I did call Joel several times and texted him as well to try to figure out what was going on before I went over to the house and grabbed a few of my things. I was told to talk to Joel, he didn’t know what was going on. Why would you change things FIRST and then ask for guidance later?


We need to get something in writing between Pink and I concerning support and my time with my daughter. Maybe this is where we can start rebuilding the broken trust and working towards reconciliation I don’t know. I am willing to hold off on going to an attorney so long as I get it in writing that I get our daughter every other weekend.


She can choose which weekend to start it out. I have offered to take them either on the same weekend her daughters go to their dad’s or to alternate the weekends which ever would work better for her. I have no problem working with her and doing what is best for Sarah. If I thought it would be better for Sarah for me to stay away I would do so. Is Pink suggesting that I am a bad parent? That Sarah has something to fear from me? Then fine let’s get it in the open and deal with it but if not then why is she not letting me see my daughter?


I also have offered to maintain a relationship with her daughters. I love them like they are my own and if I had any rights to see them I would push that issue. I understand that my relationship with them is at her discretion and so I won’t push it. If she ever needs anyone to watch the girls or help out around the house I would be more than happy to do so.


It would be completely selfish of me to ask for joint custody so she doesn’t have to worry about me messing around with that. Pink works in the home and besides the time when she works out has Sarah full time. If I had her any time besides the weekends she would be spending time in daycare and that wouldn’t be fair to her. I understand this. I also know that I am hurting my daughter by not being there full time and it was something that I tried desperately to avoid. Unfortunately I made a poor decision and now my family must suffer the consequences with me.

So it is really up to her about how we go about this from here out. Thanksgiving is next week and it shouldn’t take too long to figure something out between us. If you guys want to try to help out here then great but if not then I’ll go through with my attorney appointment. We pushed the appointment back until the week after Thanksgiving so we have a little time to work on visitation. It’s amazing how God works though because it happens that a good friend in the program has a wife that practices family law so the early stages won’t cost me anything. No judge in the world will keep me from every other weekend with my daughter so taking this to court is pointless for Pink. I would also like more time during the summer and a rotating holiday thing but I don’t expect to get all of the “good” time with her.

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Guest Mrs.Clean



My post was pleading with you to reconsider your path...the path of going toward a divorce from your wife.


But you seem as if you could not hear the wisdom offered to you in my post because you've already made your decision.


Nursing program. No lie detector. Now even more than one computer.


You say that you made a poor choice and now your marriage and family will suffer for your choice. I'm assuming you're talking about the porn. Flyboy, I lovingly say this to you...that is not the only poor choice you've made and you know it. Thinking that the choice to view porn is the only hurtful thing you've done is a lie from the pit of hell that you are choosing to believe and you know it. I'm sorry that it's come to this, and I'm sorry that you feel betrayed.


I will continue to pray for you.


If you should, at some point, change your mind and decide that you would like to listen to our advice and possibly restore your marriage (if your wife hasn't completely given up), you are always welcome on the forum. Otherwise, we have nothing more to talk about. We are NOT going to give you legal advice or help you arrange visitation with Sarah. You go ahead and work that out with the attorneys.


Take Care,




PS: There is no BFF club...but if we start one, I'll make sure to add you to the list.

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I want to clarify something.


The only thing your wife is hearing from the last few posts of yours is this - I don't give a crap about YOU, Pink! I only care about my daughter, school, and my rights!


So sad!



Continuing to pray for your family,


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I don't need you to give legal advice I need you to decide to either follow through completely with something or stay completely out.


Why did you stop my visitation? Another question. Why did YOU have the say to stop visitation? All of a sudden you want to play possum and not say anything about getting to see my daughter but sometime last week you pulled the trigger on my visitation with my daughter and I would like to know why.


You say you are here for ME but normally you attack first, then try to give me some good advice and then tell me how stupid I am for not taking your great advice when you have no idea about what is truly happening here. She is playing you like a fiddle and it's sad.


So you aren't going to try to set up visitation, instead you are just here to STOP the visitation that we all ready had going and needlessly throw gas on the fire and then jump away from the heat and pretend that you didn't have any part of it.


Yes the porn was what I was referring to. It gave you guys the excuse to blame all of our problems on me being a "porn" guy and I gave you the ammunition to do something that you wanted the whole time. End the nursing program.


I need the lap top for the nursing program and until Pink changed the password on it, it had CE on it. After she changed it so I couldn't use the internet I gave her until the next day to either change it back or set up another account for me to be able to go trough CE to access the internet. She decided not to and I had CE removed. I can set up another account but it really won't do any good if I am the account holder and accountability guy both.


My lap top I just grabbed from the house is going to get repaired. It has been broken and the warranty is going to expire so dependent upon how things are going when I get it back Pink may or may not get it back. If I have to go to an attorney then I won't have the money to buy my own lap top and will need to keep it until the next round of paychecks. My little net book w a 6" screen wasn't meant to be full time use. It was meant to get me through the day at school where I went home and then used the lap top to do my homework.


I don't know why I am wasting time talking about this, you guys all ready have me tagged and bagged as the bad guy here but I've never been one to quit.


I assume that my staying in the program is the other choice that you are referring to. Does it mean anything to you at all about what God actually wants? Do you agree that he would not bless my progress in the program if he didn't approve of it? Maybe he want's to use my time in the program to help heal Pink's insecurities around other women. There is no job in the world where women are not involved and if I am going to get a girlfriend I'm going to do it no matter where I work or go to school.


The only way to avoid women other than my wife is to sit in the bedroom with the lights off and the door shut, I mean after all even our mailman is a female so who's to say that I wouldn't have an affair with her right?


If we want to let Satan's fear run our lives lets go full bore with it and do it all the way, none of this half way stuff right?

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So at this point it really is a waste of time to continue until you all realize that I am finishing the program no matter what you say. You see you guys are trying to use the bible and God’s will to force me into something that is really going against his will. You don’t think I have spent time talking with God about this? There have been so many steps along the way that he could have pulled the plug on my nursing program. So many doors have opened for me that had absolutely no right opening. I have put my program completely in God’s hands and told him that if he didn’t want me to do this then no problem, fail me out. Guess what I have one of the highest scores in the class and I hardly ever study. WHY? Maybe it is because God wants me to travel this path? Maybe it is to show Pink something or maybe it is to show you the “helpers” something I don’t know. The only thing I do know is that when I go to my Father with my fear, he has told me over and over that I am on the right track and above all he has my back.

Are you serious flyboy? Have you gone to God over and over again about your marriage and how you are handling that? Has he told you you’re on the right track there? Or do you just give God certain parts of your life but not others?


This is a ministry where we support you, challenge you, and speak the truth to you. We need husbands that are not going to bail when the going gets tough.


I heard a guy speak Sunday. Young guy in his late 20s or early 30’s. His life was packed. He worked 12 hours a day. He got involved in paddle surfing 2-3 hours a day, and then he decided to work on his master’s degree on top of that. He started having health problems and marriage problems. (Gee I wonder why?)


He had double vision and the doctor’s couldn’t figure out why. He had more than 25 doctor visits. His wife suggested he give up his master’s. He was having such a hard time reading he agreed. He became obsessed day and night with figuring out his vision problem. Every time he opened his eyes he was reminded of the problem. He went to prayer meetings where people prayed over him. He expected instant healing but that didn’t happen.


His wife suggested he give up paddle surfing for a while and see if that did anything. He eventually did but pretty much against his will. He was depressed and maybe even angry about giving up the paddle surfing. It was the one joy he had left in life but he gave it up.

He sulked for a while but eventually got a better attitude about it.


His double vision has now gone away. Sometimes God works like that. Sin for a while is pleasurable but God will have his say in the end. It’s about priorities flyboy. Putting other “things” before your wife is sin. You are sinning against your wife and against your God. Your world is falling apart around you thanks to your choices. You are loosing your wife and your family and you think God has your back?


Did you go back to the house and grab more things? Are you using this opportunity to harass Pink instead of pursuing her? I would have a hard time giving up an infant for visitation with a man that was out of control enough to force his way into my house and start grabbing things.


I am really disappointed in you flyboy. I thought you were better than that.


I have something for you, Proverbs 11:1-7.

“The Lord detests the use of dishonest scales, but he delights in accurate weights.

Pride leads to disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom.

Honesty guides good people;

Dishonesty destroys treacherous people.

Riches won’t help on the day of judgment, but right living can save you from death.

The godly are directed by honesty;

The wicked fall beneath their load of sin.

The godliness of good people rescues them;

The ambition of treacherous people traps them.

When the wicked die, their hopes die with them;

For they rely on their own feeble strength."

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I understand that is the posture that I have taken. I was told to make a choice between completing the program and being married. It wasn't a choice of just living at home. You guys said that if I don't drop the program then she would divorce me. She has followed along with you guys and so to my understanding she is going through the process of divorcing me. If that is the case then my priorities as you pointed out are my daughter and school. I still act during the day like I am married. I don't talk to girls, flirt with them or ask them to dinner or what ever it is that Pink thinks that I was doing.


I am not blaming her. It was my choice to 1 look at porn and 2 continue with the program so I understand why she feels like she needs to divorce me. However the need to divorce me is completely different from keeping our daughter from seeing me.


When the program is over then what? Are you guys going to say that because I didn't drop it then there is no hope of reconciliation? The polygraph is a joke and after talking to a few people in our lives that I trust it was pointed out to me that if I have to take a test to show her I am telling the truth now, what happens the next time that I go to the store and she wonders why I was gone 20 minutes instead of 15. Am I going to have to take ANOTHER polygraph?


Look I understand that she doesn't trust me and that it is going to take time to work towards rebuilding that trust. There wasn't trust BEFORE we got married and none was built during it.


That goes both ways however.


I don't trust her that she will allow me to be the man that I am called to be.


Case in point is being a father to my son.


That is something that J & K were VERY clear on and something that Pink looked me straight in the face and said NO.


Do you guys care? Nope.


You will "advise" her to do what is best and she will say "oh ok" on the phone, then hang up and take it out on me that I am FOOLING you guys into believing that I am not allowed to go see my son or give him any financial support.


In the past I have been raked over the coals because I was able to list the steps I had taken in an attempt to show Pink she was first. If you would like I can give you VERY specific examples since the intensive that will show you exactly what I am talking about. Of course you don't really care to hear the truth because it is much easier to condemn and judge me rather than take the time to sort through the garbage being thrown around to find and minister to the truth.


This all has been my decision to stick with the program and there is no blame being placed any where else. You all laid it out to me that we would be divorced if I did so and I made the choice.


Now if you say that I am not allowed to see my daughter because of that choice what is your reasoning?


Is it because I am unsafe? How would my being unsafe change if I were to drop the program? We all agree that I would be living at home, taking care of all three daughters by myself at times correct?


So what would change? I'll tell you. I would be doing what YOU felt is correct and therefore I would be granted the privilege of spending time with my daughters.


But since I went against your advice all of a sudden it is OK for Pink to keep our daughter from me. WHY?


What you are showing the world through not only condoning her behavior but reinforcing it is that this ministry is based on fear and punishment which if I understand Jesus correctly is exactly opposite of his teachings. Am I wrong?


Mrs. Clean not only condoned it but she reinforced it by telling Pink to not allow me to see my daughter this weekend. She took away my one hour per week of time with my daughter and nobody will tell me why.


I understand your line you took with the either be a nurse or be married but that does not relay into being a father for my daughter. Does anyone disagree?

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Mrs. Clean not only condoned it but she reinforced it by telling Pink to not allow me to see my daughter this weekend. She took away my one hour per week of time with my daughter


Flyboy, it was ME, who gave the advice to hold up with the visitation, not Mrs. Clean.


We all know that you love your daughter. You have made it it perfectly clear to us, where your priorities lie.


My advice to you is to spend as much time as you can in prayer. We are doing the same.


God Bless,


Edited by Kay
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Thank you for stepping forward and letting me know that. Mrs. Clean I apologize for blaming you for taking my time away.


Question still remains why?


What changes if I drop the program?


If I am not a fit parent to spend time with my daughter then what is going to change by dropping the program?

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You are missing the whole point.


It isn't about school


It is isn't about porn


It isn't about a computer


It is about YOU. Your core pride, abuse, and ego.


Nothing in your life will go well with you if you do not deal with YOU. These events and circumstances are only the outward problems that is putting YOU on display. These circumstances are only REVEALING the REAL YOU.


ALL of these issues are only the symptoms of the main PROBLEM.


Everything flyboy always comes back to you and then you get offended and act all bent out of shape without ever, ever looking at how abusive you are and your refusal to change. It is easy to blame everyone but you. That is the easy way out and you only prove what kind of man you are by fighting everyone else rather than your own demons.


This will keep happening over and over again. The events might change but HOW you handle them never changes. You are not handling life in a Christ-like way. You do not handle your wife or family with love. You are not handling people with His character. His character is such that Christ does not think about Himself anymore. That is your only, only salvation to finally deal and come to terms with yourself and REPENT and seek God to change.


A carnal man vs a Christ-like man thinks about SELF as opposed to thoughts of a Bride.


your wants

your needs

your desires

your livelihood

your goals

your dreams

your selfishness

what you don't get

how life and everyone around owes you

how entitled you are

how you come first, get first and everyone comes last

how what others do effects you

how you are a victim

It is about YOU


Until you understand that you are the problem and need to change you will continue to stay stuck in this place of wounding and abusing others.


Who cares what you have to give up.


A man who loves asks what it is WORTH rather than what it costs!!



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I am really praying for you to put down your sword, and let's just start over!


The real question is this? Is your wife worth it? What we are hearing, from your attitude, is a huge NO!


My heart bleeds for your wife, and for your family.


We all make mistakes, Flyboy, but it's what you do with them, that matters to God.


Just remember, while you are ranting and raving, God is holding all the tears in a bottle around his neck. How many tears have you shed for the pain that your wife must be feeling, Flyboy?


God = Love. Marriage is supposed to be sacred. Your bride is supposed to come after your relationship with God. God, first. Your wife, second. Your children, third. You are asked, by GOD, through his word, to lay down your life for your bride and love her as Christ loved the Church. This is NOT J & K 101, this is GOD's TRUTH!


Again, I ask you to lean into the Lord at this time. It is through him, that you will find the answers that you are looking for.



Edited by Kay
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Guest Mrs.Clean



You said:

Thank you for stepping forward and letting me know that. Mrs. Clean I apologize for blaming you for taking my time away.


Question still remains why?


I believe I answered that question a few days ago. Hope and 631 are overwhelmed by being in the middle. I understand that you felt that they shouldn't be in the middle a long time ago...but it was recently brought to OUR attention as helpers again. At that point, given THEIR needs, we had to make a decision. And it might have been Kay who made that decision to suggest that Hope and 631 stopped being in the middle, but I fully supported it, and so I have no problem accepting your blame and/or accusations.


All helpers who are dealing with you guys agree that Hope and 631 needed to be taken out of this. The situation was getting more and more stressful for them, and more volatile.


Pink simply needs a few days to get an alternative plan for visitation set up. Which I also explained in a previous post. Please just be patient with her. This is A LOT for her...and now with our communications HINDERED because of lack of computer, I couldn't tell you what is going on with her.


As far as what would change if you quit nursing school? Well, like Pure in Heart said, it's all about priorities. Obviously, we all agree (except for you) that nursing school needs to be given up. It causes your marriage MORE than a few problems. When you claim that you can't do this or that to heal Pink's heart, it is because you have to go to nursing school, or you have to do homework for nursing school. How were you able to view porn? On a computer you attained FOR NURSING SCHOOL. How have you retained legal advice to hurt your wife, through a friend you made AT NURSING SCHOOL. You said that God has been blessing you with wonderful grades, even though you don't even study that much, but in the history of your posts, you complain about NOT having enough time to study, and needing a certain number of hours to study each day...needing to go to the library to study, etc. So, in our opinions, the nursing program is a huge time sucker (which it SHOULD BE, I mean, you people are training to save other peoples lives) and for now, your marriage is struggling to breathe its last breath. Like one poster was mentioning about a testimony of a man who had to give up this activity and that schooling, etc...to get his sight back, we have been asking you to give up the MAJOR TIME SUCKER to get your marriage back.


Also, I personally did not expect you to stay at home with Sarah every day while Pink works. Nursing is NOT the only job you can do. I understand you have disabilities or something going on, but I refuse to believe that you CAN do nursing, but can't work at a grocery store, or find some other job worth having to support your family. Do you feel it is beneath you? Probably so, and I understand that, but for right now, for this season, it is about putting your marriage, that is going to DIE, first!


I hear what you're saying about Pink saying things against the ministry, and without her confirmation I can't really speak into that. However, I agree with Joel. When a wife is NOT doing what we ask, it is your job to bring it to our attention, and then step back and trust that we've got it covered...and don't sit there and have a tantrum waiting for her to be nailed to the wall. That is not how we work with wives. In fact, we were IN THE PROCESS of working with your wife over the sex issue, and she was working with us and cooperating when your porn use was discovered. That pretty much stopped us in our tracks. We can't force a wife to make love to her husband when he has committed adultery against her. Often times, a wife FEELS that adultery, even though she cannot put words to it, or even know that it has occured. She can FEEL it in her spirit. I felt it in mine when Damon cheated on me, even though I didn't know for several MONTHS. I could feel the lack of connection when we were together...and it was very difficult. I didn't have a definition for what I was feeling, I just knew that making love wasn't working for me, there was no connection, and therefore, I didn't like to do it. So, I can understand where Pink was coming from there.


If she had said, "I don't care what they say, I'm not going to ML to you 3x a week," I agree with Joel, you should just nicely, pop your head back in the room, or text or call, or grab them at lunch and say, "Pink said she's NOT going to do that, and I really feel that needs to be adressed."


But as always, let US deal with your wife in our way, in private. This is the way it must be.


Anyway, I hope and pray that Kimberly and Joshua were able to speak some wisdom into you last night. I missed that part of the call. I ended up falling asleep with the call on, and then woke to a pukey 2 year old (three times) in the middle of the night...so it's going to be a LONG day for me!


I will find it and listen later when it is downloaded onto the forum.


Take Care,


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And by the way...


Didn't Pink go with you on a camping trip and your son acted like a fool?


And didn't he cuss his mother out? and isn't he supposed to go to a juvenile type center because of his actions?


What we asked at the intensive is that she would include him with you in family things.. we did not ask her to have you just disappear with him. We are all about family.


Didn't your son disqualify himself from further family involvement for a season with the way he acted at the camping trip and with his OWN MOTHER?


Pink is small.. your son is LARGE and scary.


We don't TELL Pink what to do.. please stop misrepresenting things on our forum.


You chose your schooling and career over Pink and the family. Your choice. Bad choice.


No one has told Pink to divorce you. ANY WIFE SHOULD DIVORCE a husband who has a porn issue who inists on pursuing a career that is heavily female. Sadly, you claimed innocence with her and with us.. your stance was ALWAYS that you might have your issues but at least you were not into porn like her last husband. You lied.


We give men the benefit of the doubt. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. That which was hidden in darkness was revealed.


You are disqualified by your actions to pursue a career that is heavily female.


That is our opinion. Pink makes her own decisions on what to do about that.


She gave you a choice. You chose.



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On Monday, my heart became heavy, as I listened in on the forum. I could not believe that a Brother in Christ, in this ministry would place a career ahead of a lifetime of being with the bride GOD Blessed him with with. I understand that Oregon's unemployment is higher then most states. With that in mind, how do you propose to provide for your family while in school? I pray you think this through. An instant fix is not always the best option. My actions turned my bride to another leading to divorce. Now our children are living at another mans house. You get a time to really reflect especially during Holiday's like today. I will be going over to friends house's for thanksgiving, while my bride and our children have a family get together at her mother's house. I understand there is pain on both sides, yet this is nothing compared to the yearning of wanting another chance, and bring healing to my family. I did not find this ministry till the pain out weighed the pleasure for my bride, and now have a permanent restraining order till 2065! I ask and pray that you fast and really search your heart.

The isolation and loneliness you will feel, pails to what pink is feeling. Moving to another state might be an option for finding employment. This is part of of the dyeing process, are you willing to place your Bride and family ahead of pride, and EGO. This is from one on the outside looking in on my family. So the decision you have is embrace what you have been taught here, or have the haunting memories of " I should have". I do not have all the Biblical references as others, so I can just tell you in my own words. My prayer is this does not fall on deaf ears.

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So exactly what is it that you are saying about my son? I would much appreciate it if you would be clear in what you expect me to do around that issue because it sounds like you are telling me that since he is having a difficult start to life that I should "for a season" exclude him from my life. Am I hearing that correctly?


Also Pink said she would let you guys know and then you would let me know when the next time I had with my daughter was going to be and I was wondering if you guys had heard anything yet.


I also have a few things over at the house that I need. Besides a book I need for class I don't think anything is in the house so was wondering when I could stop by and grab some of my things.


Thank you for taking the time to tell me your story, I am sorry that you are in the situation you are in. It sounds like for this season your family is better off without you while you figure out your part in all of this and it sounds like you are up to the challenge laid out before you. I'll keep you in my prayers.


That reminds me. I got in "trouble" because I wrote my cousin a message on facebook. I am not going to try to defend or anything but want to ask what I am supposed to do when I hear God's word to do something. I woke up out of a dead sleep worried about her with a conviction in my heart I am sure was placed by God to write her a quick note. I tried to ignore it but it bugged me all day and I finally gave in later the next evening.


Here is what I wrote to her just in case anybody was wondering;


I hope this doesn't sound overly weird but I woke up last night worried about you. I don't know what you have going on in your life right now but I wanted to tell you that some pretty great people in my life think the world of you, not to mention that you are pretty high in my favorite cousin book as well.

I know that you have faced down a lot of hurt in your young life and it can feel very overwhelming at times. I haven't been through everything that you have but I have shouldered my share of hurts and I just wanted to tell you that God doesn't give you what you can't handle.

I know that doesn't really help in the middle of hurt, but I remind myself when the days are dark and lonely that God has enough faith in me to handle everything that is being thrown at me.


I look at the hurt and pain as a way to get stronger for life ahead of me so that I can help somebody I love in their time of need.


Grandma Mackoo was always there for me as a shoulder or an ear and I just wanted to make sure that you know that I am here if you ever needed anybody to talk to.


Like I said I really hope I didn't sound like a complete weirdo I just wanted to let you know that people care about you.


Also if anybody was wondering she tried to commit suicide the night before Thanksgiving and spent the weekend in ICU. Maybe God was trying to use me to keep that from happening with a kind word?

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