Starting Fresh

[flyboy]

Cool you can stop. I asked for help on the Men's only part so I can get alot of this worked out. the only thing I get is negative out of this and it's not a matter of sugar coating it but putting it into a language that I can understand as well as keeping it relevant and from God's word...not your own two cents worth. thanks for your time though.

[selall2]

I asked calmly and w love and desire to please her how I could meet her needs.

I asked several times and each time was rejected.

I asked again what I could do to help her and comfort her. That I didn't know what was needed but I was very willing to learn.

 

Just hold her.

 

asked her if she would rather me go back to the other room.

She said she didn't care,

 

She does care and was waiting for you to initiate.

[pink]

Ok I understand

[InHisImage]

hey there flyboy;

 

you have a good thread going here. Lot's of open questions, lots of inquiry into behaviors, motivations, intentions...but what i don't hear is your heart. There is very little remorse for the state of your relationship...in fact, you sound a little annoyed When you wrote,

I'm delving deep into my heart trying to figure out why I am having such a hard time WANTING to meet all of my wife's needs right now.

...what did you conclude? Did you find the weakness you were looking for?

 

Looney Tunes recently posted on my thread that for many men, the "want to" just isn't there...why, i asked? I think it's because they are still too big in their own mind...still too concerned about our own "wants...too". When we offered our lives to our wives...we said that regardless of what your past has been, regardless of your present circumstances, regardless of your future fears and concerns...I will always love you...I will always cherish you...i will always put you before every single competing priority in my life, you will be mine and i will be yours, forever. Do you realize that you hold the dreams and fears of your wife in your hands? As a little girl...playing house with her friends...she started dreaming of her life...dreaming of her husband...dreaming and wishing. Holding out for the right man...holding fast to those sacred dreams in her heart that one day that devine relationship would come across her path...the one whom she could trust her heart to, the one she could share her life with, the one who she would share her hopes, fears, and aspirations with...that man is you. She is tender..she is vulnerable...she is scared of being disappointed...She put her life in your hands, believing that you had her best interests at heart. That you had the "want to" to make every sacrifice to better her life, so that she could respond to you are give herself to you and make your life a dream come true...

 

Her dreams are the "want to"...your promise is the 'want to'...your word of honor as a man is the "want to". You seem to be looking for the emotions to be present so that you can start the actions of love...instead, start the actions of love...agape loving your wife...laying your life down for her...and the emotions will follow.

 

You said,

I think I came into our relationship full of love and fire for her and ran into her old hurts which I wasn't ready to handle. I wasn't ready to handle the full responsibility of healing her hurts, and when I wasn't able to heal I began to add my own hurts. When I hit those hurts, they unearthed my own hurts which I hadn't really addressed.

Well, welcome to the human race God matched the two of you so that healing could happen; but He did that so the two of you would reach out to Him, and together...you, her, and the Holy Spirit, healing could happen and you wouldn't have to get a PhD in psychology to help her. All you would have to do is listen to her hurts...then turn around and dump them at the foot of the cross....go and listen to her heart some more...and dump it at the foot of the cross. See, it isn't our job as men, to handle our wives' hurts, but it is our job to listen, aplogize/empathize, validate, and hold them when they are hurting. Then we take that hurt and give it to the Lord so we can deal with life and our own junk. We don't react...we initiate...

 

So, you mentioned you needed straight talk...i hope that helps. We are in your corner and pulling for ya!

 

God bless you as you grow and surrender,

 

In Him,

 

Michael

[flyboy]

Michael,

 

I'll try to go down the list of questions and not sound defensive. First off thank you for taking the time to write me. I have had a hard time fully listening to those that have tried to help in the past but I am trying. I guess I get caught up in the details of what is being said.

 

I guess I wasn't "wanting" to any more because I was tired of it never being good enough and it always being that I should have done something else. If I know that I am going to fail, might as well save my energy for the [edit] chewing that I am going to get rather than the task.

 

 

I have made many choices for Pink without asking her, or burdening her with them. Then she (and you) turn around and tell me that I am a selfish man who does nothing for my family? I get out of bed before anybody else and am normally the last in bed. I am stressed beyond belief and there isn't much hope of an end in sight. I feel like I am carrying the whole burden of the family and I get kicked when I don't THANK her for allowing me to carry all of the stress. Maybe this is all why I don't WANT to meed her needs any more.

 

The best interests of her heart part struck a nerve with me. There is the best interest of her heart right this second and the best interest of her heart for the rest of our life. I am supposed to give and give and give to her, with no say in how things are supposed to go....and still have the means to give and give and give again tomorrow. I love Pink and have given her every ounce of my being but it is not enough. You can discredit that if you want, but God know's the truth and that is all that matters.

 

Things were going really good for awhile with lots of love flowing both ways.

 

All of a sudden things came to a screeching halt late Saturday night. I made a huge mistake and didn't leave the room when asked and it escalated from there. I hate the way things have become and take full responsibility for it. If I had left then things wouldn't be this bad.

 

That said I was kind of shell shocked when it all started and combined with being exhausted didn't see things clearly and became very self centered when she asked me to leave the room.

 

We had had a great day, starting with the oldest daughters BBall game, then a great hike as a family with a few pictures, then a short cuddle/nap before I had to leave for a study group for a test today.

 

When I got home we went to a friends house and watched the UFC fight, where I thought everything was going great. Pink seemed relaxed and to be having fun while we there. She sat on my lap because the couch was full and we cuddled and kissed. I offered her my seat when her back started hurting which she turned down. I rubbed her back a little then she sat on the floor. I asked several times if she wanted my seat and each time she said she was fine.

 

We talked about how tired we were on the way home and how that we weren't going to be intimate that night.

 

We get home and I put everyone in bed, stoke the fire, feed the animals then climb into bed with her.

 

She asked me to hold the baby who sleeps with us at night, so I held her in my right arm while Pink cuddled my back. I had my left hand on her butt and leg often times caressing her during the movie. I couldn't hold her because it was my "job" to take care of the baby so she could get some rest.

 

The movie was over, she rolled over like she was going to sleep. So we were back to back and I asked her if it would be all right if I rolled over (which would put the baby between us) because it was hurting to lay on that side.

 

She started in with "it doesn't matter because you don't love me anyways" and then with "you were gone all day to the study group"

 

I was shell shocked and confused and reacted badly. I didn't respond with love and things got out of hand.

 

I just don't understand how we can go from cuddling and having this day that was 99% focused around Pink's wishes to me being told that I didn't love her and that the day had been horrible.

 

Before you respond about the UFC, it was with friends that started out as her friends and it was something that she really wanted to do. I was exhausted and would have rather stayed home and got to bed early. I didn't tell Pink that, am NOT holding it against her I just want to make sure you all don't jump to the conclusion that going there was about me.

 

Did I have fun? Yes I did. It was more fun to sit with my wife on my lap, my head on her shoulder and her head on my head than anything else. That was great quality snuggle time to me and I thought until bed time it was to her as well.

I truly love Pink and want only the best for her. After failing for so long, and feeling like I am giving her everything that I can I begin to wonder if I am enough for her. I have given up on myself I think.

 

At what point do you start saying that a Man has earned some respect? Respect does have to be earned and maintained but what point does that happen? It's not like one day you have no respect and then the next it's 100%, I understand it is a gradual process but at what point does that process begin?

 

Anyways I hope I didn't go off the deep end here. Again Michael thanks for your time, and I truly hope that I didn't come off as attacking or being defensive. I have taken a step back from here trying to readjust how my language comes across. As for my heart, I don't know any way to convince anyone on here that my heart has been for Pink and Pink only without them living it with us.

[Guest]

Flyboy,

 

This post sounds good. You sound like you want to work to help your wife, and heal her heart...and you sound like you will have no problem being Christlike toward your wife.

 

You have been working at this for a while with no visible results in healing for Pink.

 

When you've been around the forum for a while, you come to notice some things...often times, when a man seems so very committed in his words, but his actions aren't bringing healing to his wife, then there is USUALLY some hidden sin underneath the surface that is preventing you from living a Spirit filled life. You MUST be filled with the Holy Spirit in order to die to yourself for your wife. You can not do it alone.

 

So, right now, I would ask that you spend a day or two in prayer (and fasting, if you do that) asking yourself what it is that is hidden that is hindering your progress. I know that you adamantly deny any porn use or adultery...but I'm telling you, there is SOMETHING there that is keeping you from making this next step. I have thought and thought on it, and I'm wondering if it is the attention you get at nursing school? That (probably female) attention could really be hindering you. Not to mention, if you are relying on their praise and positive reinforcement instead of your wifes, that is also a form of adultery.

 

I'm not saying these things to hurt you or put you down. We ALL have to constantly search ourselves and ask God to search us to find out ways that we need to improve...places where we need to pluck sin out of our lives. I believe that this is where you are at.

 

You are tired, frustrated, exhausted and ready to give up. THIS is the time my friend. This is where the rubber meets the road. If you cannot do this by leaning on GOD, then you may as well give up. Because you cannot do this on Flyboy's strength alone.

 

So...pray, and ask for God to show you what is hidden in darkness. Hey, it may even be in darkness to you, too...often we don't realize something is causing a problem for us because satan is so good at disguising things with lies.

 

Everyone else, if you are reading this...please pray that whatever is hidden in darkness in Flyboy's life is revealed.

 

Flyboy, you can do this. You can heal your wife and you can have a great marriage, but you are still at the beginning. When Pink starts posting again about how you have turned around, and how you are really working to win her heart...then I will give you my respect.

 

Until then, I will give you every bit of advice that I have, and hope that you take it.

 

We did call your name last night on the call, but you did not answer. By the way, your attitude during roll call was TERRIBLE, and I would have advised Kay if she asked my opinion to not even take your call. The mens calls would be INVALUABLE to you, and whether you know it or not, the calls are WELL WORTH the money.

 

I understand that you don't have the money and that it is a source of frustration to you, but a response like, "I really would like to, but I just don't have the money yet," would be appropriate.

 

Take Care,

Julie

[flyboy]

going solo,

 

Well I understand that past examples color your future views. I can tell that no porn exists, no self gratification, and definitely NO attention from females at school. I have kept from any sort of friendship or really interaction with the people at school be it female of male because I have no time for anything outside of my family. I don't have time for my old friends yet alone try to make new ones. I understand where you are going with that, and just want to ease the fears that that is most definitely not the case.

 

Thank you for writing back, I understand what you are saying about constantly going to God for those check up's about our area's of improvement. I try to do that, but often the word I get back differs from the word that I get from Pink so I am conflicted as to which to follow.

 

The attitude you got last night was one of exhaustion but I understand what you are saying. I listened for several hours and had to take about a 10 minute break...long story but am willing to tell it if you want.....and when I got back on somebody else was talking so I figured I had been called on. Then as I listened I fell asleep and finally hung up but overall I was there for about 3 hours listening. You guys opened it up but again I was to tired to function effectively and it wouldn't have done anyone any good for me to open my mouth at that time. So I apologize for the attitude. There is a men's forum on here that I tried and that went absolutely no where with me writing to myself so I'm not going to pay 100 bucks a month for a phone call that is just like the forum. I am however in a Men's group that is based upon the J&K teachings which has helped out tremendously.

 

Can you tell me what it is that happens at an intensive? I have heard back from a few people that went and it was described as mostly just what you see on the DVD videos with that short one on one with J&K.

 

You are right about the response being inappropriate, and it is something that I have to work on. I hate the money situation and it is a very very very sore subject with me. That's no excuse, I will work on it I just wanted to let you know that I hear what you are saying and it is a process for me that I am working on. Thanks again.

[Pure in Heart]

Flyboy,

 

When a person feels like they do and do and do and get no visible reward for their efforts it can be very frustrating for you. The reward and the respect come when you learn what it looks like to be her hero. Yes, there is a reward. God however, blesses or rewards you when you are doing the right things. If God rewarded you or your wife rewarded you for the wrong behavior then you would not see your need to change. She will be more than happy to respond to you when you are giving and filling her love tank up. If she is still fighting all your old ways of doing things it is sapping life and love from her. She does not have anything to give back to you.

 

Remember here also that only doing for a reward can be tricky. It makes for a wonderful marriage when your wife is responding. BUT if the reward becomes more important that than the cost you have to pay to get to it then that is where men can feel resentful and feel like they are owed or "a sense of entitlement" Entitlement is one of those attitudes in a man's heart that can cause a lot of damage. The damage is that they are needing the wife instead the wife needing the husband. A man can slip very easily into demanding from her or like being "mommied" instead of being the Giver or Initiator. When a man feels like he is "owed" something or he will only change if he gets something out of it then you are not loving in a way that is sacrificial but in a way that is self-serving. This is hurts a wife deeply because she is looking to you to meet her need and not always trying to take care of her husband's feelings. When a wife feels like your feelings of getting a pay-off are more important than loving her no matter what then she is always holding back her heart. She knows she can never pay enough to get love. That is your job as a man to GIVE love freely and she receives it.In this way you are loving her like Jesus does. He does not make her pay Him to get loved.

 

Now this is the catch 22 for you as a man. You are trying to learn to love and at the same time you are feeling the pain of getting rid of behaviors you are very used to. That is the place of your struggle. God is mindful of this struggle and He will help you. He will also help you by surrounding you with others who can help you see what those behaviors are that you keep doing that are messing things up. It is also why God gave you pink. It really is HELP.

 

This is where it is hard for the man. You think this is not help at all. This does not "feel" to great to be told all the behavior I am doing wrong. The reason people feel this way is because of wrong thinking. They want to keep doing wrong things because being told it is sin wounds their pride and ego. We all like to think we are right, flyboy. When we want to hold on to our own thinking it comes out in all kinds of different ways. It is like protecting yourself from being told you have to change and that does not "feel" too wonderful. We know that. That is why the Bible calls it "dying to self." It is dying to those things we di not realize are hurting people and hurting ourselves. Yes, changing is hard and soemtimes our flesh wants to scream...leave me alone!! It may be anger, yelling, getting defensive, arguing with a wife that NO, I am not like that, lashing out or refusing to do something someone needs to punish them for trying to show them their true colors. Of course that is not easy for any of us. Yet, when you allow this correction, adjustment or tweaking to happen you are actually being humble and saying, "God I need you and my wife...please help me." When we are humble and accept that there are behaviors we as fallen people need to change is when God can give you the grace to make the changes. When you put a stop sign up and tell a wife she does not have permission to help you take away those wrong things then she feels you do not care if what you do continues to hurt her.

 

One the one hand you have hurt your wife. So many times that she knows you very well. She knows what kind of man or person you are by the way you act. That is how we know WHO a person is. We know by looking at their reactions to life/circumstances or being told they are wrong. We also know if that person is a Christ-like person because there reactions and behavior looks like how God wants His sons to act toward a wife.

 

No one is saying that you started out wanting to hurt her or not be a good husband. The fact is that most men do not know HOW to love their wife. So, now you are beginning to learn HOW to do this. What will get in your way is waht every man struggles with and that is to be told they are wrong or are not quite connecting to their wife. Right there at that exact point is where your flesh comes into play. Instead of saying, "oh, wow, I really am clueless here and keep making mistakes I think I need help"...you get defensive and combative with pink and others. No one is wanting to beat you up flyboy. There is a difference between people trying to challenge you to admitting you have changes to make not that we mean you harm. When a man has a difficult time really looking in the mirror then it is a good thing others will tell you. It is because we know you are hurting yourself and making your marriage more difficult.

 

All we are asking is that you take a deep breath and have a heart to learn some things about loving your wife and relationships that can actually help you feel better about the kind of man you are. You want that also...we know that.

 

Men get stuck in their stuff flyboy. We all have blind spots. Your wife knows you so well she knows where you get tripped up and the unhealthy behaviors you are more comfortable with putting into play. That is why God gave you a wife. She helps you see things about yourself you can not see. She knows because those very behaviors set off her heart and she is hurt by them. That is what we mean when we say she "responds" God created a wife's heart to to tell the difference between actions that hurt and actions that are loving. If you remove the behavior hurting her and replace it with what she needs then her heart is feeling better about you.

 

Others are helping her and you and supporting you both in these changes. The reason people get frustrated with you is because you tend to think we are criticizing you instead of challenging you. It is like saying, "hey flyboy that attitude you got on your shoulder is going to cause you grief in your marriage and hurt both of you in the long run." we are trying to help you.

 

Yes, of course it feels frustrating in the beginning of this process because you are not sure where you are at. It will help you feel a great sense of relief if you say to yourself.."I need help here and so I am going to trust people that they have pink and my best interest in mind."

 

On the other hand, you need to understand that your wife is hurt and because of her hurt she does not trust you that you really want to stop. Of course she has to guard her heart from any more pain because she is scared you do not want to learn how to love her. You think she is being difficult or manipulating you but all she is doing is showing you roadblocks you are putting up to having a good and happy relationships.

 

This is when a man realizes...I hurt pink and she is giving me a chance here to do things differently. She does and says things to me because she she is coming from a very hurt place and she needs me to make this alright for her. She needs me to love her enough that I will do anything to make up to her the pain I have caused. When I do this seh feels that I really do love her and I care. It matters to me that I want to take the responsibility as a man to make this right. To get my marriage back on a good path.

 

So when she seems like she is all over the map that is because right now you have been all over the map. It is scaring her that you are not going to lay your life down for her. That is something she is longing for. That you feeling challenged or frustrated will not stop you from ever loving her. That you are willing to pay the price and count the cost to yourself to maek sure she is feeling loved by you.

 

When you are truly connecting to her and reassuring her you are serious about loving her...she WILL respond to you. But if you keep going back and forth and making this process about how uncomfortable it is for you then she will feel like you are more concerned about staying the same than being willing to change for the sake of your family.

 

That is all the flesh is flyboy. It is that voice inside that tells you meeting her needs to be loved by you are too hard, or too frustrating or not worth fighting.

 

It just takes time for pink because she is the one trying to sort out in her heart all the ways you have not been trustworthy. she still sees you doing the same old behavior you have always done and that makes her heart close again to protect it from being hurt again.

 

That is why you NEED her. She will help you stop hurting her when you are willing to listen to her tell you and point out how you are keeping the two of you apart. Her heart IS about loving you. SHe loves you so much she desires and craves for you both to close and in love. To care about each other and be one flesh.

 

BUT, FIRST you have to get all the junk out of the way. That is all we are asking you to do. When your wife points out that something you are doing or not doing is distancing you from her just listen and trust her heart.

 

She is not out to control you. She only wants to be loved. God gave her that mechanism in her heart to see and exactly pin-point unhealthy behaviors you use to stop relationship. The stuff you are so used to doing it has become habit to you. The thing is flyboy, that connecting to a wife is the best emotional remedy for you too. When you take responsibility to heal her from the hurt you put there you get healed too. That is what being a man is all about. Trust her. She does know her own heart. She knows what makes her feel scared or unloved. She knows what makes her feel loved. Of course she does, it is HER heart.

 

To be Christ-like means that it will take dying to your old ways of doing things that do not work. It is not a big mystery or something meant to confuse you. Those behaviors that you learned that hurt others also end up hurting you. They hurt you too because God wants you to have a happy marriage and a wonderful life. But if a man does not learn HOW God loves then he is only left to figure things out on his own.

 

When you look away from how hard you think this is and look at pink then she becomes the focus and where you can take actions to bless and love her. If you are focused on that you can't think about yourself, can you?? That is how simple the principle is. The person or the object of your love becomes more important than yourself and you automatically start changing.

 

Hang in there it does get easier. Be more open flyboy. Trust a little here. We WANT your marriage to be great. We really do.

 

Kimberly

[flyboy]

PIH,

 

I understand that I have to do the right things and she will respond. I guess that was what completely blew me away about Sat night. All day she had a big smile on her face, she was relaxed and appeared to be having fun. Then that night she started saying things that weren't the case at all.....like that I ignored her at the UFC fight. I didn't ignore her, I barely watched the fight because I was so focused on her. We talked and laughed and kissed and cuddled it was AWESOME! Another was that I was gone ALL day to my study group, it was TWO hours! javascript:emoticon(':?:')

 

Then to get home and have her recount the night on the total different side of it hurt and confused me and I reacted wrongly to that.javascript:emoticon(':cry:')

 

She was upset with me because I didn't initiate sex...but we had talked about it on the way home and decided that we were both way to tired that night.....she completely forgot about that conversation until I reminded her of it....

 

I don't think she knows me at all, but instead is still working on her ex husband's rules. The funny thing is so much of what she said he did to her, she does to me. Like she knows how bad it hurts and she wants to hurt me so she uses his game plan.

 

I think I get combative when people tell me to put my pants on....when I all ready have them on....but I also see where that leads me into other areas of defensiveness javascript:emoticon(':oops:')and that has been something that I have been working so hard on.

 

Which was the struggle Sat night, to hear her say that I hadn't initiated when I know for a fact that I did.....how do I approach that?

 

I understand what you are saying when you say that you are just trying to help, it was the tone and the jumping to conclusions that was killing me. Don't put me into your husbands box. I am a different guy with different thought process than him. Don't say that because he was a way then THAT HAS TO BE YOU.....it could be suggested as going solo did. I didn't take that offensive at all in the least bit. She is concerned and voiced those concerns in a non threatening caring manner that speaks of her care for us rather than her judgment of me.

 

I truly am trying, and maybe I got/get stuck on the fact that when I do something good it doesn't count or matter at all. I don't clean the kitchen because I want to, I clean it because it blesses Pink. I didn't ask for a parade, I just asked for kindness and some respect. Maybe remember that I do a million things every day for Pink and count that in when I am being condemned for the two things I don't do.

 

I am trying very very very hard to trust here, and I greatly appreciate the tact that you both have shown when writing me today. I have gotten the butt chewing ones from you guys and so I recognize the effort it takes to deal with a guy like me. It is appreciated and it isn't falling on deaf ears. I take a little longer to get to the destination but it sticks with me better than others. Thanks again.

 

 

[Carnine]

flyboy,

 

Just a thought. You said:

I truly am trying, and maybe I got/get stuck on the fact that when I do something good it doesn't count or matter at all. I don't clean the kitchen because I want to, I clean it because it blesses Pink. I didn't ask for a parade, I just asked for kindness and some respect. Maybe remember that I do a million things every day for Pink and count that in when I am being condemned for the two things I don't do.

How many times has Christ done this very thing in your relationship to Him? How many times has He turned you away because he didn't approve of your response? How many times has he failed to meet you, right where you are when you are pouring yourself out to him? This is what He is calling you to do for Pink.

 

You are in our prayers. I know you will make the right choices.

[flyboy]

huh?

 

I don't tell God that he hasn't done ANYTHING for me when he doesn't meet ALL of my needs.

 

Not sure what you meant by that, I'll give it some more thought and try to figure it out though.

 

Sorry to be so dense, it's just the way it is for now.

 

Guess I'm doing better if that's all that got picked out so far.....

[Carnine]

Flyboy,

 

The point is that Christ doesn't tell you how wrong YOU are when you come to HIM and your attitude/actions/behavior/feelings aren't entirely "accurate" or honest. He just meets you where you are having compassion on your weakness. It is this kind of love (agape) that he is calling you to have for Pink.

 

I'm sorry. Is that any clearer?

[Pure in Heart]

Flyboy,

 

I am not comparing you to my husband. My husband is amazing. He has done this perfectly every step of the way.

 

Abusive behavior that hurts others is observable...it is honestly not that hard to spot. The hard part is getting the man to see it. That is where you feel up against it. BUT the Lord has to rattle your cage or you would get comfortable and settle for less than God has for you. That is simply the nature of our flesh.

 

The very reason you keep coming back is because people have been challenging you. You KNOW deep inside it feels right. You know because you are built for this. You are called to it. You are hungry and thirsty for it and to be that man. You WILL be that man.

 

 

All day she had a big smile on her face, she was relaxed and appeared to be having fun. Then that night she started saying things that weren't the case at all.....like that I ignored her at the UFC fight. I didn't ignore her, I barely watched the fight because I was so focused on her. We talked and laughed and kissed and cuddled it was AWESOME! Another was that I was gone ALL day to my study group, it was TWO hours! javascript:emoticon('Question')

 

Then to get home and have her recount the night on the total different side of it hurt and confused me and I reacted wrongly to that.javascript:emoticon('Crying or Very sad')

 

She was upset with me because I didn't initiate sex...but we had talked about it on the way home and decided that we were both way to tired that night.....she completely forgot about that conversation until I reminded her of it....

 

I don't think she knows me at all, but instead is still working on her ex husband's rules. The funny thing is so much of what she said he did to her, she does to me. Like she knows how bad it hurts and she wants to hurt me so she uses his game plan.

 

I think I get combative when people tell me to put my pants on....when I all ready have them on....but I also see where that leads me into other areas of defensiveness javascript:emoticon('Embarassed')and that has been something that I have been working so hard on.

 

Which was the struggle Sat night, to hear her say that I hadn't initiated when I know for a fact that I did.....how do I approach that?

 

When pink feels all over the map...and to you may feel like it is coming up out of nowhere or out of the blue..it is just something in her heart that is being uncovered and hurt being exposed from you or her past.... just stay there with her.

 

Another reason is she felt SAFE with you and it moved her heart to vent. A wife can only vent or get all flustered and pour it out because you were being with her in a loving way. I know you would think...will she ever level out and be happy? Yes!! She will. When you become that safe place for her and let here get hurt out more and more then she moves past it quickly and you grow quickly. She becomes more and more comfortable and trusting of you.

 

Say, pink, I love you so much sweetheart, I am sorry you felt I did not initiate or felt I was not doing enough for you.

 

This is where you have to trust her...Yes, even when it doesn't make sense to you. It might not have anything to do at all with something you did wrong RIGHT then and there. It could be hurt and pain that is inside her desperate to come out. She may act like this for a long time.

 

She is testing your love for her. Will he really love me even when I am so scared and confused inside? Will he stay strong and wrap his arms around me even though I look like a crazy woman? Will he love me when I do not even know what is wrong inside or my feelings are jumbled up?

 

Just love her...get in close and reassure her.

 

I love you baby, I am right here. I am not going anywhere. You could never, ever ask too much of me because I love to love you. You are my life sweetheart. I am so sorry I put your heart in such a mess. I want to heal you of ALL of your pain and hurt. I want to be the one you look to and rely on for always.

 

When this is the heart and attitude you have toward her....she will be amazed!!

 

PIH

[Pure in Heart]

I don't tell God that he hasn't done ANYTHING for me when he doesn't meet ALL of my needs.

 

Not sure what you meant by that, I'll give it some more thought and try to figure it out though.

 

Sorry to be so dense, it's just the way it is for now.

 

Guess I'm doing better if that's all that got picked out so far.....

 

Carnine was not pointing something out...she was reiterating back to you that you are treating pink like Jesus treats you. That His heart is to give to you because He loves you.

 

I hope you read ALL my post to you flyboy because there was a lot of helping you see the big picture..to help you wrap your mind around the what and why of things. I know it was long but it will help you understand why we are asking you to do this and what pink needs from you. To help you get past the reasons sometimes you fight this process. There was also understanding in there that I know this is not easy.

 

PIH

[flyboy]

When I said YOU I meant those that have written me in the past, not you in particular I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[flyboy]

He does doesn't he? If I think that it's ok for me to hit my wife (both attitude and action) because I am angry, how does he react to that?He teaches me other wise right?

 

I love Pink no matter what, but it is the interaction between us that breaks down.

 

God get's to tell me what to do in order to gain access into his kingdom which is a little different than my interaction with Pink right?

[flyboy]

I am not trying to fight or throw mud I was honestly confused as to what was being said. I am honestly asking these questions because I don't know what my role in my home is supposed to be.

 

I guess the point that I am right now, the point that I was when I got on the call last night, is that I am tired of the physical violence and it has escalated since we started this. It feels to me like now that we are on here, and it was brought up that she hits me when she is angry and that it was ALL turned on me she feels the right to go further with it.

 

I know that I made mistakes Saturday night, but there is nothing in this world that will convince me that if she get's her feelings hurt that it is ok to physically attack me. If that is what the message is, I want no part of this ministry or marriage.

 

I am kind of hung up on that and having a really really hard time letting go. I am so so very SORRY for my actions and would take them all back if I could. I have apologized to both Pink and the girls for my actions and it was heart felt. i wanted to vomit at the thought of where my relationship with Pink went that night.

 

I just keep going back to how violent she is becoming and how she has a sense of entitlement around it and how later she tells me that she wishes she had hit me some more or harder. I can't take this.

 

Of course you could say that if I didn't make her mad she wouldn't hit me......sound very familiar?

 

Where in the bible does it say that it is ok for her to strike me? Where does it say that I have to be perfect in all manners of life no matter how small or I get punished?

 

That is the other thing.This whole idea of "punishment" If she is going to punish me for making a mistake, then again I want no part of this. I did not marry a woman to PUNISH me when she feels slighted.

 

Right now my focus is to forgive Pink for the violence before I try to work on us again. I have asked God to help me but so far I just can't bring myself to do so.

[flyboy]

I probably shouldn't be posting right now....I'm extremely tired and very hurt by this whole thing and am not being Christ like. So I apologize for the previous couple of posts and will revisit this issue after I have had a chance to rest. Thanks.

[InHisImage]

Hey Flyboy,

 

it seems the conversation about saturday night is still on...but more importantly, to avoid more "saturday nights" like that one, give this a read:

I get out of bed before anybody else and am normally the last in bed. I am stressed beyond belief and there isn't much hope of an end in sight.

okay flyboy; we'll start here. This whole deal about laying your life down for your wife is not a 50/50 proposition...it's all in, but inorder to do that successfully, you are going to have to put the score card away get back intouch with the power source...you need the power of the Holy Spirit to carry you and sustain you. The reason you are stressed out is that you are trying to carry all the load on your own...hint! you were never designed to do this! You were designed by God to initiate; with your wife and with God. Only God has the power to revive you, lift your spirits, and carry your stresses.

 

I feel like I am carrying the whole burden of the family and I get kicked when I don't THANK her for allowing me to carry all of the stress. Maybe this is all why I don't WANT to meed her needs any more.

Flyboy, flyboy...i too like to feel appreciated, and no one likes to be unappreciated or kicked; but please stick with me...in our arrested development ( you have arrested development issues just like me ), we will flip-flop between wanting to serve our wives and heal their heart and just tossing in the the towel for lack of interest in the work load...i am telling you this out of my own experience...not yours. Joel and i had a nice chat one day and we figured that i was about 4 years mature...that fit with a lot of other issues But once i knew the truth...then i could fix it.

 

everytime i feel like i do too much...i give too much...i am not getting enough...i remember; "oh, ya...i'm 4!!" Here is where AGAPE LOVE kicks in...regardless of your maturity, agape love is an unconditional, fire-proof determination to love without ever expecting anything in return. It is not counting wrongs...or paybacks...or compliments...or sexual favors. It is an unconditional giving...no holds...no stops...no expectations. That is how Jesus did it; that's how mature men do it...that's how guys like you and me will do it. Here's why...

 

If we don't get it right, in the marriage we are in...if we can't figure out the issues as we have them clearly set before us now...if we toss in the towel for someone younger, older, taller, shorter, bigger, smaller...it won't matter one iota...We will not have changed and we will drag our immature self back into another deadend relationship. Let's get it right, right now. You can have an Outrageously Happy Marriage

 

The best interests of her heart part struck a nerve with me. There is the best interest of her heart right this second and the best interest of her heart for the rest of our life. I am supposed to give and give and give to her, with no say in how things are supposed to go....and still have the means to give and give and give again tomorrow.

...Flyboy...i am reading this, and it feels like i am reading my own journal; let me see if we can break this down a bit:

 

"best interest right this second"...either this means that you are constanting thinking of ways to bless her and consider her in every area of your daily life...in which case you are doing great or your thoughts might be leading in the direction of ...good for her now, and great for me later: eg"when is it my turn?" My friend...it will be your turn for the rest of your life! When you are laying your life down for your bride and she is safe and secure in your love, she will overwhelm you with every good thing!!! The Word of God says that when a man finds a wife, he finds a "GOOD" thing. The word GOOD is the same word as the word that God used to describe His GLORY as it passed before Moses...so, when you find a wife, you have found God's Glory in your life. As you heal your wife's heart, you are ensuring God's Glory in your life is secure and welcomed, and God's Glory is meeting every need you have too! It's a complete win-win situation

 

 

We talked about how tired we were on the way home and how that we weren't going to be intimate that night.

...side note for future reference..."Always give your wife the option to reject your request for loving her; never take that option from her"...just a thougth; you are laying your life down...regardless of what was said earlier...always offer your interest in her...allow her to accept or decline...put it in her hands to make this call; what could be better?

 

She started in with "it doesn't matter because you don't love me anyways" and then with "you were gone all day to the study group" I was shell shocked and confused and reacted badly. I didn't respond with love and things got out of hand.

....This was a test of the female responce system...it was only a test. She was testing your reaction to her; reaction=defensive, deflecting, protective of self image.....or initiating healing to her feelings. Flyboy...i have failed this test more times than i have passed it...it's okay. Yes, you took a step backwards...but nexttime you don't have to. She is trying to get you to tell her how you feel for her...she was sharing her heart and seeing if you responded by protecting your heart, or considering her's and the pain that she was sharing by being vulnerable. That's how she went from 0 to 60...she felt herself being vulnerable to you, and you responded defensively....aka...she didn't feel safe any longer.

 

Before you respond about the UFC,

...if this was for her and her group and she enjoyed it...then get a cable subscription and get her friends over more often...Go overboard to make "her thing" your thing.

 

I truly love Pink and want only the best for her. After failing for so long, and feeling like I am giving her everything that I can I begin to wonder if I am enough for her. I have given up on myself I think.

okay..so here we are back at age 4 talk again...this is not a judgement; you and i should be in the same grade Anyhow, once you begin to see that your job is to unconditionally love your wife, lay your life down for her....bless her daily...encourage her and put her needs and interests before yourown...you can not fail Your success is ensured...as your wife sees that she is the center of your world, secure that she captivates your attention, that she holds your interest, she will begin to respond. And when she does Flyboy...that is when your maturity will be tested beyond todays difficulties....we'll talk about that later

 

At what point do you start saying that a Man has earned some respect? Respect does have to be earned and maintained but what point does that happen? It's not like one day you have no respect and then the next it's 100%, I understand it is a gradual process but at what point does that process begin?

Now that is a great question: let's take it apart:

 

At what point.....never. Throw out your score card. Respect is earned by consistent behavior that is predictable and valuable. Jesse James the outlaw was consistent and predictable...but his behavior was never valuable....hence-no respect. Abraham Lincoln the 16th President was consistent and predictable and his behavior was valuable....great respect. Do you think President Lincoln went around asking when he was going to get some respect? Have youever read the story of his marriage...yikes!!!!!

At what point does the process begin?...when there is trust that you will first be respectful and honorable. You are the initiator. Have you sown seeds of respect in your wifes heart? Are you honoring and respecting her, or being critical? Just a few thoughts....

 

May God bless you Flyboy...He is watching...it is between you three, but when your heart finally gets engaged in humility, empathy, and contriteness of spirit, you will know and we'll all see.

 

In Him,

 

Michael

[Giving Hope]

Hi Flyboy

 

First, I haven't read every single word that has been said to you in the past couple of days, but I would like to point out a few things that the Spirit keeps saying to me.

 

Unrevealed sin=Pride! This in itself is a sin! Someone was asking you about hidden sins and you kept coming back to porn, etc. But what I am seeing is your pride showing. That you are excepting your wife to respond in the way you want her to respond. At this point you do the right things regardless of the way she responds or not.

 

Unrevealed sin=Selfishness! You are expecting something as a reward for doing the right things. Iin your mind that if you do something right then you deserves a reward or response for that good thing or action.

 

Unrevealed sin=Manipulation! You want things to be seen your way and see things just the way you want them to be. Not looking at things through someone else eyes or perspective. You twist things around to make you look like the good guy on the outside. You twist words and actions around to show the outside world that you are doing your best.

 

I am only pointing these things out to help you and show you what you need to see and change about yourself. YOu have to fill yourself up with the Holy Spirit here and ask the Lord to reveal to you these actions and what you need to do to change them.

 

From what I understand, your life has changed once again. You and your wife are now seperated. Which in itself might actually be a good thing for the both of you. This gives you a chance to grow with the Lord here. This gives Pink a chance to gain her strength that she is going to need to help you as well when you do (if you do) get back together. This should be the time in which you are starting to think along the lines of what you are going to be losing in your life. I know that you love Pink, but its more than just loving her, it about loving her the way SHE needs to be loved, putting her first in your life only second to the Lord. Learning what she needs from you and you learning to drop your selfish ways and pride and come to acknowledge the gifts that the Lord as given to you.

 

You can't do this what the Lord, nor can you do this looking for the rewards that you want. You have to give all of that up and just do the right things regardless if you get a reward or not. Remember Jesus went to the cross, suffered all that pain, for you and me, he didn't do this for a reward on what he was going to get in return, he didn't do this what any reason other than what was ask of him from the Lord. He went willing and ready because he KNEW it was what was asked of him. He gave himself up for the LORD and for all of us. But he didn't know that in doing this we (as believers in the Lord) would follow him and laid down our own lives to follow him. We give up our whole selfs so that we can be and come as close to be like him in every day and every way in our lives. We turn our backs on the secular world, we turn our backs on our own pride and our own rewards, and the Lord in returns blesses our lives for the best.

 

I am trying to "dumb" this down for you, and I know its hard to grasp sometimes but you have to get this into your heart here, it's not just about the actions and rewards, its about changing your whole heart.

 

Blessings

Heather

[pink]

I didn't read all of the last two post's, I'll have to go over it again later but one thing stuck out. That someone was asking me about unrevealed sin and it's ME that keeps bringing the porn thing up....hinting that I am revealing my sin or what ever it is that you are hinting. If you go back and re-read it my response is very direct to the point of porn because it is asked of me to do so. I am responding to something somebody has asked me, so if you can give me a specific situation maybe I can answer it and we can move on.

 

I'll address the other stuff I guess this evening on the call. I don't like to talk/write on here because things get taken out of context and there are about 5 differant conversations going so when I answer one it get's taken out of context and people try to make assumptions based off of that...just like the whole porn talk.

[Guest]

Flyboy,

 

You are acting like a toddler.

 

I agree with Heathers post, though. Your hidden sins are really getting in your way.

 

For example, if you weren't lugging around all of this sin, you would be filled with the Holy Spirit and walking closely with God. IF you were filled with the Holy Spirit and walking closely with God when your wife lost it and hit you, you would have displayed one of the FRUITS of the Spirit...PATIENCE and your fuse would not have been so short. You would NOT have hit her, and you would have also shown another fruit of the spirit SELF CONTROL. A real man would WALK AWAY from a woman who has hit him. A Godly man would do the same. Just walk away, and come back when she has cooled off!

 

Flyboy, I don't understand why you can't HEAR us. Are you reading what we're saying to you? I have told you to PRAY PRAY and PRAY some more. Get close to God. PLEASE. This is the ONLY way you are going to be able to do this.

 

You tell us how tired you are, how overwhelmed you are. How hard you work, what you are doing for Pink, etc. What about your spiritual life? What Bible verses did you read last night? How often are you reading your Bible? How often are you praying? How often are you turning to God to get your needs met? How often are you going to God with your frustrations instead of us?

 

You need to work on this. I believe that the closer you get to God, the better you will be able to deal with this entire situation.

 

Don't worry about what is "okay" for Pink to be doing. Worry about what is "okay" for Flyboy to be doing. Worry about what FLYBOY needs to apologize for. Worry about what things FLYBOY did wrong.

 

Not Pink. You can't change Pink...the only thing you can do is change FLYBOY.

 

Take Care,

Julie

[Pure in Heart]

[pink]

I never said that I was right in provoking Pink. I never ever felt that and felt sick to my stomach that it got to that point. There were SO many points that I could have stopped the whole thing and I made the CHOICE not to. No matter the circumstances it was a choice that I made to act the way that I did.

 

 

My only concern was that it was taken to the physical level in the first place. Was I doing the right thing?? Not at all and it was abuse I understand that now.

 

I found the podcast that I was trying to describe awhile back from our church. Would you guys listen to it and tell me what you think please? I appreciate it.

 

Go to Christs Center podcasts and look for the "living water" by Pastor Ed Glaspey. It's 49:38 long but has some good information.

 

I am so very sorry for the way that I acted both Saturday night and last Tuesday night on the phone call.

[Pure in Heart]

flyboy,

 

I tried to find this but need a more specific address.

 

PIH