Kay and Bob - We are finally making it!

[Kay]

Don't forget to pray.........

 

 

 

My husband and I were at one of the Intensives a few weeks back. He did everything that he was told to do for me, to help me get over my hurt, anger, disappointment, frustration, depression.............. the list goes on and on and on.... Any woman who is the victim of adultery can understand what I am getting at. As wonderful as our husbands are being, after making the choice to "die for us", the hurt still lingers on, and for some of us, like in my case, we don't always get better. Sometimes we get worse. I was doing good while in the presence of Kathy and Joel, but as soon as I got home, reality struck.

 

 

 

I stopped praying and instead, just analyzed everything. I wanted more and more details, and just couldn't get a grip on the incredible sadness that I was feeling. Nothing he was doing was good enough to take away the pain. We both worried that I would never get over the hurt and we wouldn't survive.

 

 

 

Then, one day...... I decided that I needed to pray again. It wasn't that I was mad at God or anything, but just too absorbed with my own self-pity to think of anything else. Anyway, I started praying to God to help me get through this, to appreciate these wonderful changes in my husband and to get past all the hurt and anger so I can move on with him and be happy. I also prayed for him to continue understanding my pain and to help me through it.

 

 

 

Ladies, I'm telling you, it works. Kathy and Joel can't do this alone. We need to continue to have faith in God. My husband has been so incredibly nice to me this past week, that I am simply amazed. I never thought it would be possible for someone to do such an incredible turn-around. He has been controlling for over 20 years, along with being emotionally abusive to me and our kids, not to mention the affair. How does a person just change like that, after one weekend ?? It just doesn't seem possible. God plays such a part in all of our healing. He will restore your marriage and help your families. You just have to believe.

 

 

 

Men CAN change! Keep the Faith and listen to Kathy and Joel. They know ! They've been there! And talk to God on a daily basis. Don't ever forget that he has the power to get you through this.

 

 

 

Miracles really Do Happen!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Rebecca]

Hello Kay, I am a bit puzzled by your post. You and your husband are at the very, very beginning of this process of him hearing your heart so that you can begin to heal. Healing is not a matter of, I prayed I am healed. The whole point of Joel and Kathy's teaching is for men to hear their wifes heart, to let her vent, to feel her pain that he caused.

 

If you continue in this attitude of "I am healed" you are not allowing your husband to mature as he needs to do by hearing your heart. Remember Joel heard Kathy's heart for a time period of 3 years. He still hears her heart. She is allowed to speak of any part of the adultery that she needs to even to this day. He still validates her.

 

You need to allow yourself to feel the pain and to begin the process of venting to your husband so he can begin to understand the pain he caused you. This is how he will grow and mature into a Godly man.

 

Although my husband did not commit adultery he used porn for many years and hurt my heart terribly. He defrauded me in many ways. I vented to him for a period of 6 months and was totally ruthless. I did not care if he got it or not. I just let him have it. Each time I vented he chose to die to himself. He chose to allow me to vent. He chose to try to understand the hurt and pain he caused me. Healing takes time. That is reality. There are no quick fixes. It is a process.

 

Maybe I just misunderstood your post. If so then please forgive me.

[Kay]

Hi Rebecca,

 

Thanks for replying. I am not saying that I am healed because prayer did that for me, what I was trying to say is that prayer "helps" I have found that when I turn to God instead of within, I believe that he listens and helps the process along.

 

I am not even close to being healed. Part of my problem is that I have suffered for a very long time from emotional and physical neglect and that I am totally starving for him to love me. Our situation is a little different then most. We have been more like room mates. It was always me that wanted him and made the innitiatives, not the other way around. We haven't slept in the same bed for over 20 years. I never had that physical and emotional security when the going got rough.

 

Since coming back from the Inteniseve, he is upstairs every single night and I am getting those hugs and kisses. He is meeting my emotional needs now, more than before. The physical thing is still a problem, not totally gone, but slow in coming.......but with lots of prayers, I'm hoping that it will get better. I am very attracted to him, but unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be the other way around.

 

When I vent, or express my anger towards him, it pushes him away.

I can't handle that, so I try not to vent. I am trying to move on and put it all behind me, and I pray for healing.

 

I hate making him upset because I don't want to push him away.

Turning to God is keeping me sane. Praying can never be a bad thing, and I believe deep down inside of me that he will help to restore our marriage. Because I don't think it will happen on our own without the prayers.

 

Maybe I am naive, maybe I'm not facing reality. Maybe reality hurts too much.

 

God Bless,

Kay

[HindsFeet]

Hey, you guys did better than us!! At least you got to making up, and even in bed!

 

Good for you - nice attitude, keep on keeping on.

[Judy]

Kay,

What I felt you were saying was that when you could pray about the issues and get your eyes off yourself that was when your healing began to take off. Adding God to the healing brings much power.

You will come to more and more healing as you respond to your husband. Of course your husband has much more to do but at least he's working at it. Don't hold back from sharing your heart, he's got to hear it all, grow up and heal you all the way.

The sex often takes time, as does everything. Years of damage compounded with fears and pain make it difficult. Here again, don't hold back, it probably won't be perfect the first time but it does get easier and easier, just like hearing your heart gets easier for your husband and responding gets easier for you. It all takes practice, time, patience and lots of love.

You didn't get here overnight and it's not going to be all gone overnight, but with God ALL things are possible. You are on a journey, you won't arrive until Heaven!

[Kay]

I am having a lot of problems trying to get him to understand my pain, and I keep beating myself up that I am pushing too hard for perfection.

He keeps reminding me how he is here for me and he's trying, but I can't expect him to change into someone he's not. Keeps telling me that if it's that Fairy Tale dream that I'm looking for in him, then I'm never going to find it because he'll never equal up to my idea of the Perfect marriage.

He is constantly telling me that he feels like nothing he's doing is good enough for me.

 

Last night, we were out together alone, and we got into this argument and I told him to just take me home. He said, "Fine" and turned the car around in complete silence. While waiting for a light, I jumped out of the car, risking my life and others. I took off, walked for over a half hour in the middle of no where, until I finally answered my cell phone and let him come back to get me.

 

It is so hard for me to accept anything but perfection from him. I think it's because I feel like he owes it to me for hurting me so bad.

 

But, he's here and he's trying. Why can't I give him a break. Why can't I just move forward. I was getting better, and now I feel like I'm slipping backwards again.

 

I think I"m starting to understand that we're not living in the Dream Land, this is going to take work, lots of it, and there isn't really going to be that fairy tale ending. Sorry, just having a bad day!

[Rebecca]

Hi Kay,

 

Are you truly understanding Joel and Kathy's teaching to men? The whole point is for the man to bring healing to his wife for the hurt and pain that he caused. I know that this kind of new thinking is just as difficult for the women to grasp as it is for the men. You are continuing to live in the old paradigm of you as the wife need to just get over it and be thankful that your husband is just still in the marriage.

 

Your husband needs to be more than just in the marriage. He is the one responsible to fall in love with you, you in response to him will fall in love with him. He is to be the initiater, you are the responder. If you back off from what Joel and Kathy are teaching out of fear then you will not see the healing and restoration in your marriage that you were seeking when you attended their intensive.

 

HOLD YOUR HUSBAND ACCOUNTABE! You must do this. It is painful and scary. Your husband has to move toward you and let you vent. He must cease from being a baby and responding childish by his behavior of putting you off balance if you try.

 

Read the books again. Listen to the intensive DVD's if you have them. Get the DVD seminar or watch it if you have it. If you don't hold your husband accountable to this new teaching and new way of living as a married couple then change will not happen. You may find peace and joy in the Lord because we as christians are all free agents in Christ. But if you want and desire a good marriage then your husband is key to your healing and health concerning all of the marriage relationship. He IS your source of life concerning the marriage.

 

Your husband is not trying if he is not hearing your heart.

 

Last year I was prepared to divorce my husband. I felt that I no longer wanted to remain in a marriage where I was being dishonered. I told him I can be single and at least maintain my dignity and self respect. I held him accountable to this new teaching we heard. I did not just let it go. There were times when it was diffficult to say the least. I was not willing to settle for a marriage where my dreams would never be realized.

 

I want to encourage you to move forward with this teaching and allow yourself to vent and to expose those hurts that are deep within. Tell your husband you want him to embrace his responsibility toward you concerning this. Don't settle for less. Nothing in life worth anything costs nothing or little. Even our christian walk is full of personal pain if we are moving toward maturity in Christ. THis is how your husband will mature in Christ concerning your marriage. This will affect his entire christian walk.

 

I mean to encourage you to be brave! GO FORWARD.

[Kay]

Thanks for your words. I gave the books away to my sister in law who just filed for divorce, but am planning on re-ordering them again. I have the DVD's of the Intensive too, but they haven't left the drawer where they were put. I do plan on listening to them. He should too, but won't, I'm sure.

 

I always feel like I"m in a no - win situation with him. He gets upset with me when I hold things inside and don't share my frustrations with him, but when I do, he gets upset that I am being unreasonable and that his feelings should count too.

 

I can't get him to go on the Conference Calls at all. He won't read the books again, becasue he feels like he "gets it" and is doing everything that has been taught. He did promise me though, that if he starts slipping, that he will go on the calls and watch the DVD's, and Joel agreed that as long as he is doing good, then I should leave him alone.

 

He has changed for the good in so many ways, as he is constantly spelling out to me. I am greatful for that, but you're right, I need to continue venting to him, and take the risk of getting him mad. Can't possibly be worse then before, so I don't know what I'm worried about.

 

I can do this and I will.

[Kay]

Okay, I vented last night - He listened - He admitted that he was wrong - and apologized - but then asked me why I had to always vent at night - makes him not want to come upstairs - can't I let out my frustrations during the day instead of locking myself up in a room all day - I told him that I do that so my kids don't see me upset - and I am not going to get into things with him in front of the kids - I stayed strong and I feel better

 

Kay

[Judy]

It's just as painful for you to express as it is for him to hear it, but it has to happen for growth on both sides! Continue to hold your husband accountable. If you don't, he'll be a hero in his own eyes after one day and think everything is good when it isn't. Get him to understand that you're not holding him to your idea of perfection but to Christlikeness and meeting your needs. "Honey I need..."

 

If he were out of the home and calling J&K they would tell him it's not just about getting your wife back it's about growing up and becoming Christlike and it will could take longer than you think.

 

Read both books again. Once is not enough! Ask your husband to read them again or quote them to him, or read them out loud to him, get them on CD and put them on all day - or something. You're in marriage school here. Would you read something once before a college exam? No. Keep reading and growing.

 

J&K wouldn't mind if you got Ken Nair's books "Discovering the mind of a Woman and Discovering the Heart of a Man" which have lots more information on Christlike husbands and Helpmeet wives. Each time I pick up J&K's books something new jumps out at me and we teach this. So keep reading...

 

Your husband mentioned something to you that you need to hear and could help you - don't let it build up all day. Express yourself as things come up, don't bottle it up and save it until night when you're both tired. Go somewhere the children won't hear and tell him how you're feeling. Letting him sit and wonder when the bomb is coming doesn't help anything. Express your heart as you should, but remember Kathy said that at the beginning, she would wait until the third time or she would pick the "most important" topics and let a few smaller ones go by.

 

This takes time to get it all down right but look back, have things improved enough to continue on? Do you see the light at the end? Can you dust off your dreams and work towards those? Can you be patient while God works on your husband's heart with your being a good helpmeet? Of course you can! It really does get better and better, then an occasional bad day and then great days again. Remember, it takes 3 years until the old neuropathways are rewired and you are a new creature in Christ. NOT 3 years until change comes because it's a daily process, but 3 years until it's automatic.

[Kay]

Thanks Judy and Rebecca,

 

What you both said has made a lot of sense. I do need to continue reading and learning. I am ordering new books today, and I may order Ken Nair's books too.

 

My husband has a real hard time with listening to advice from anyone. He does, however, have a lot of respect for Joel and Kathy, and does admit that he learned a lot about himself during the weekend. He is glad that we went. He does apprecitate what they did for us, but he feels that there is a lot more important things for us to do, then to dwell on the past. He got it, and he's applying the principles. He's here for me 24/7, So, "Let's get on with our lives"

 

He does allows me to vent about situations or arguments, that come up, and usually always comes back and apologizes to me, admitting that he was wrong. And, will allow me to talk about past hurts too, although it is hard for him to listen and hear it.

 

He wants me to be happy, wants me to heal. Just wants me to do it with him, and not "complain" to others about him. I guess I can't blame him for that.

 

So, in a lot of ways, I feel like I'm in this alone. But, he is doing well. And, not only am I healing, but our kids are healing too. So, I'm giving him a break.

 

If he slips, I will get on him. And, I will send him QUOTES or demand that he go on the Conference Calls.

 

Everyone says it will get better, and it is. One day at a time.

Kay

[Kay]

I am wondering if there is anyone out there who has some advice for me.

My husband has no interest in sex. When it does happen, it's because I initiate it, and even then, I feel like it's being done out of obligation on his part. We've lived like this for over 20 years. (Sex wasn't non - existant, but not done very often and I never felt like he wanted this.) He had an affair 4 months ago, and I kicked him out, which landed us at the Intensive 6 weeks ago. He is doing great, with the exception of the sex part. I am so frustrated, don't care about the sex as much as I care that he doesn't "want me" I have told him my feelings over and over again. Joel and Kathy explained that the day I had a baby, I was being looked at like his mother and not his wife. (which makes sense because that is when it all changed) I have been doing everything I can to "spice" myself up, but nothing is working. I vent to him about this too. The only explanation I ever get from him is that I am wrong - He is attracted to me, he does love me, but goes on to give me every single excuse in the World. Headache, stomach ache, sore muscles, arthritis, too tired, needs his sleep, on and on and on.......

 

Last night, I had another anxiety attack. (haven't had one in over a month.) Couldn't stop thinking of his affair and how he doesn't want me, but wanted her. Also, I'm to find out that she was probably 10 years younger than me. Great for my self-esteem. It's tearing me up inside.

 

They say the husband is the initiator and the wife the responder. Ha - with him, it doesn't work like that. There is hugs and kisses going on 24/7, but it ends there, or it's a "quickie" out of obligation.

 

I am so tired of laying in bed next to him and listening to him put the Tv on because he can't "sleep", him asking me if I mind? Having him stop me, if I start, because he doesn't "feel good" He doesn't deny me totally, but why would I want this, knowing he doesn't ?? Makes me feel dirty. Joel and Kathy told him "make love" to your wife every day or every other day and it will begin to feel natural to you. He heard it, but it is NOT happening. Am I being impatient ?? Maybe 6 weeks is just not enough time ? Maybe he can't because he is still so guilty for hurting me ? Do I just continue to keep my distance until he's ready ?? Do I continue to initiate and complain ? Do I stop talking about the affair, because it will just make it worse ?

 

Pressuring him in the past to love me, I believe, made him look for someone else. (Even though, everyone has told me that it isn't my fault.) I don't believe he'll run again, but......... I am worried that my fairy tale dream isn't going to happen. I told him that he is so lucky that I still want him after all that he has put me through. Never has answers for me, just hugs. (which I suppose I should feel greatful for)

 

I feel myself slipping backwards again, and I do NOT want to. I'd appreciate any feedback.....

 

Kay

[Rebecca]

Wow, where is Joel Davisson when you need him? My guess is that he still has the other woman in his heart. Sexual refusal is a sin. My husband and I have never lived without sex in our marriage. This is totally wrong on the part of your husband. I can only imagine that you need for Joel to speak to him. He is not hearing your heart.

 

I desperately need for my husband to want and desire me sexually. This is your right as your husbands wife. You are not wrong about your feelings.

 

My husband and I remained having a sexual relationship even during the worst months of him hearing my heart. Sex in marriage should never stop.

 

Sex is marriage/marriage is sex. Only real physical sickness should interfere or as the scriptures say prayer and fasting.

 

You should not be a beggar for sex from your husband. He is sinning in his mind and has not fully repented.

 

Hopefully when Joel and Kathy get back from the intensive they can speak to him on your behalf.

[Rebecca]

Hi again. This is such a hot topic for me because although my husband and I never refused one another sexually this is the main area where my husband has needed to bring healing to my heart.

 

Quick obligatory sex is not making love.

 

I needed for my husband to meet my needs my way. I wanted him to do my pleasure. This takes time and patience on his part. This takes for him to deny himself in order to put me and my pleasure first. I also needed for him to let me know that this was OK. That I am not being selfish to need and desire this from him.

 

I am a woman and this is how God made me. I need validation from my husband about who I am sexually. He is my husband and I am totally and completely dependant upon him in this area of my life. This is how God made it.

 

Your husband needs to be willing to completely renew his mind about you, your sexuality, your needs, your pleasures, your desires and how this is all your right in your marriage with him.

 

I better stop here because I could go on forever about this!

[Kay]

I really don't know what to think. I don't believe that he has any other woman in his heart. He has always been like this, since the day I had a baby, which was 23 years ago. We have 5 kids, so this hasn't been a total platonic relationship. Just wasn't very often, or gratifying to me.

 

When I had suspicions of the affair, about 2 months before the Intensive, he "gave" to me in the bedroom, listened to me explain to him about how upset I've been that he never could "meet" my sexual needs, and he tried. Things got better....... (I do believe that he had ended the affair before this too.) - It's just since we got back from the Intensive, that he has clammed up again.

 

As for letting him read this ?? I can tell you that he would have a real problem if he knew that I was "airing" our dirty laundry to anyone, especially this very sensitive topic. He won't go on the Conference Calls, won't email Joel about anything, and wouldn't even respond to him, when Joel emailed to him. The guy is about as Private as they come.

 

He knows that I'm upset about this, I have spelled it out to him over and over and over to him, that's what is driving me crazy. Every time, he gets nicer to me, kissing me so much more, passionately, looking into my eyes, telling me how much he loves me, all of that. It's just the SEX part, that he can't seem to deal with. Or, he will make love to me, but will do the bare minimum. Before he would allow me to "give" to him; but, the other day he asked me not to, saying that he didn't feel good.

 

He did make one comment to me about a month ago, said that I am going to have to be patient with him regarding the sex part, that he knows that I am mad at him, and he just can't. (Whenever I have an emotional meltdown, or a panic attack, he holds me and stays patient, but afterwards, he seems so down, and says that he just wishes that I wasn't so mad at him all the time.

 

Deep down, I think his guilt is playing a huge part of all of this. Maybe there is more to things, that he didn't come clean with at the Intensive ??

I just don't know, but it's holding me back from moving forward.

 

He is home every single night, so no way is he involved with anyone. That I know for sure. So ?????????? I'm stumped, basically.

 

Kay

[Melissa]

Kay,

 

Wow this hit home for me. My husband David and I have been married for 8 short years compared to your 20 some, but maybe this will help.

 

It was very much the same story in our sex life, I would initiate sex 9 times out of 10 and while David always enjoyed... well a wife can feel things. It's just not normal for a husband not to be jumping on his wife. An it hurts like crazy even if you aren't rejected, per se.

 

When I became pregnant with our first son 5 years ago, the sex stopped completely!!!! In fact he was not even able to perform. I wondered, "what is wrong with me" How crazy is that when we wiives blame ourselves for our husbands issues.

 

Well, 3 years ago, on our 5th wedding anniversary, I "caught" my husband masterbating in the shower, right after he had been in bed with me! Ha! is the mild way to put it. Husband thrown out a 47th story hotel window would be what was in my heart at that moment.

 

To make a long story short, was when I found out about my husband moral failure and when he started dieing to self everyday and being pure, all our sexual problems stopped.

 

He had such a huge level of guilt and he was feeding his mind daily with trash. This caused him to be unable to be a husband to me sexually.

 

I would imagine that your husband is in moral failure (porn, lusting, attached to other women) and he knows it's wrong, but he odesn't realize that it's the reason you guys have a terrible sex life. I don't know him... but guys are hardwired the same.

 

Unless he is willing to become a man and die to self your sex life will stay the same.

 

I can tell you it's not you, but that doesn't really help much. I just wanted to share our story and maybe it can give you hope.

 

Melissa

of David and Melissa

[Rebecca]

I would imagine that your husband is in moral failure (porn, lusting, attached to other women) and he knows it's wrong, but he odesn't realize that it's the reason you guys have a terrible sex life

 

This is almost exactly what my husband said about Kays husband. As my husband also for many years in our marriage did the same to me.

 

Praise God we are on the other side of that. Some reading can help.

 

SIMINOK, Sex In Marriage Is Not OK, by Glenn and Phyllis Hill.

http://ndxpress.com/ndxpress_stuff/hill/index.htm

 

 

Intimate Issues, by Linda Dillow and Lorraine Pintus, for women.

http://www.intimateissues.com/

 

 

The Way To Love Your Wife/Creating Greater Love And Passion In The Bedroom.

http://www.passionatecommitment.com/mid_home.htm

[Rebecca]

[Kay]

Thanks to both of you for your input.. Although, I feel physically sick listening to all of this, I am glad that I read it. I am going to read those articles later when I have time, and maybe I will forward them to him.

I am also thinking that maybe I should initiate sex to him on a regular basis, if he doesn't, so he releases the (I forgot what it was called) on me and not on some crazy sick person in his mind.

[dory]

[Kay]

Well, I DO have my work cut out for me. I didn't reveal what I found in his pocket last week. It was a note - that simply said, Craig's List "Girl's Just want to have fun - 19" Then, it said, "Look familiar ???" This was NOT his handwriting. I immediately made him take a ride with me in the car and confronted him with the note - He swore up and down that he never saw this before. He had just come from being on a bus that went to U of I (He was visiting his daughter at school) He claims that he dropped stuff out of his pocket on the bus, and picked it all up, and maybe this was on the floor or something, it was dark, he has NO idea, that was all he could think of that might of happened. He begged me not to do this to myself, told me he was glad that I talked to him, tore it up and said, "Give me a break - Do you really think that I would go for some 19 year old ?? What kind of pervert do you think I am ??" I put it out of my mind - Now after reading all of what you all have been telling me, I am feeling physically sick. I avoided him all morning, but he caught me and locked me in the bathroom and made me talk to him about what was bothering me. I spelled it all out to him - told him I've been researching and I'm convinced that he has been lusting for someone other than me and that is why our sex life is / was so bad.

 

He became very defensive - told me that I was "crazy" and that he doesn't know how much longer he can deal with me. I'm a different person these days. He thought we were doing great - He can't "perform" because I am "judging him - nothing he is doing is good enough for me - He feels like he's my dog - He has to be this person that I want and expect him to be - and because of all of this, I am pushing him away. He brought up separating again, maybe that's what I need - because he just doesn't seem to be the guy I want. I want someone else, someone who can meet my sexual needs every night - says there is no way he can do it every day, or every other day - he's a 50 year old man - I need some younger guy or something. Now, I'm making crazy accusations in my head about him being involved in Porn which is simply NOT TRUE -

 

He has called several times, and keeps telling me that he loves me, not to do this to myself, to stop analyzing things and that I can't keep throwing the past in my face. He wants to sleep, period. He needs his sleep and so do I, says that the TV is just to help him get back to sleep - it helps him. Says that he agrees that we should not have sex due to obligation and that it should come naturally. He is working on making himself a better person, and that he notices that I have been fixing myself up too, that he loves me and that we need to just let things go one day at a time.

 

says that when I put pressure on him, that it is making things so much worse. I need to back off and let our love for each other to make things happen on it's own time.

 

He DID say that he would review the DVD's of the Intensive again with me - He wants to be happy and wants me to be happy. He is trying - I need to allow him to make these changes within himself and give him a little bit of a break here - says, I'm just expecting perfection from him and he can't be this perfect guy that I want him to be.....

 

boy, am I rambling or what....... so now what ?? Do I back off in the bedroom ??? or....... I am planning on staying up with him every night downstairs and go to bed with him, so he has NO alone time at all in the house. He agreed that our life for the 20 years was a mess, and he wants us to get better as much as I do.

 

I will look above and pray to God to help us..........

 

God Bless,

Kay

[Kay]

He is very very hurt and upset right now, although he has called and told me that he loves me and to please try to stop thinking in the past - We NEED to move forward!!!!

 

Kay

[Judy]

The most important part is your husband caring for your heart and initiating good things. Something is keeping him from connecting and initiating and the women who've written earlier have nailed it, it's moral failure of some type that is keeping him from connecting 100% with you, resisting your reaching out to him, blaming you for pressuring him.

 

Your idea of keeping him accountable, being with him, etc. is a step. Did you check out that note about Craigs List? You need to. Are you checking his cell phone? Do you call him at odd hours at work and on his cell phone? Call from a friends house or pay phone. All kinds of ways to check up on him and he shouldn't mind as you are simply being a helpmeet! Tell him that you expect nothing but 100% of him, anything less is acceptable to you.

 

When things are right emotionally in your hearts sex isn't a problem it happens naturally and regularly when two hearts are connected.

[dory]

Kay,

 

Perhaps my last note was a little strong for your situation even though it was true in mine. Age 50 might be a little tough to perform every day. We were 42 when this all broke out. The extent of our sex life was every weekend. I settled in with that routine, but had occasions of hurt when I would "dress up" and not be able to arouse him mid-week. I let it go figuring that this must be normal for our age (with 4 kids) even though it hurt my heart.

 

All the "other" problems - which refer to as the "I AM" trio: incredulousness, anger, manipulation - were tearing us apart for most of our marriage. We were near the final split due to all those things BEFORE I even discovered the porn addiction. I guess I was lucky. Even though he was angry and spilled out more than was necessary - likely in a little boy effort to push me away to protect himself (sound right Annalea?) - I guess I was lucky that he spilled out EVERYTHING. (At least I hope there's not more ) So since we were so near "the end" anyway I suppose he had nothing to lose to let it all pour out. Alternately, he "could" have come up with another excuse or defense that I probably would have bought into. But since Kathy asked me to to say that prayer and to watch for God's work to be done, I was walking around with eyes wide open.

 

Before J&K (and thus Jesus) entered our lives, Nemo could settle down and "be sweet" to get us thru to the next storm. He had me all figured out. He hid his tracks oh so well on the computer. We "shared" the Windows log-in account, so I thought he had no secrets. But lo and behold, he would log off and use the "administrator" account to do his "dirty" surfing. Histories and cookies were always deleted before he logged out and thne he would put it back to our family account before I could ever figure anything otherwise. I am an engineer. So while I might not be the most "naive" on the computer, he was always one step ahead of me. And the computer is the most pervasive source: free, secretative, and VERY accessible.

 

Now that Nemo is guarding his thoughts with scripture and starving his eyes for only me, I see a BIG difference in his desire for me. This J&K stuff isn't so hard for him to swallow because he now knows he really needs me for his salvation. He needs me to help him break this destructive force that would otherwise have taken his soul. He needs me for his own purity. AS Joel and Kathy point out towards the end of Book 1., he needs to feed her emotional needs in order for her to be able to fill his sexual needs. This was God's design. But if the husband doesn't desire her, then it all breaks down. he doesn't have the sexual drive to inspire him to die to himself for her needs so that she will in turn feed his needs.

 

So what do we do? I wish I had a good answer. For now, I would give your hubby the benefit of the doubt. (Punt and) Pray that prayer we spoke of. Even anoint your house, every entry into your house, your computer, his car, your bedroom, (even his underwear!). I know it sounds crazy. But I believe it helped awaken the Holy Spirit to the work that needed to be done on our home. Ask hubby why he's getting so much info about Viagra. He may well be researching the drug as you say, but keep in mind those bulk Viagra e-mailers ALSO come if you look at ANY sex related sites - even Victoria's Secret on-line catalog. (Speaking of VS stuff, I learned later that my hubby would even grab those when he needed a quick fix. Ugh.) Ask him if the next time he's goes to the doctor concerning this, you could go WITH him. This might help allay your fears and bring perspective to the situation. If he resists that, I would be suspect. Did he attend any of your visits to the OBGYN when you were pregnant with any of your 5 children? During the delivery? If so, then your reproductive system is obviously an open book for him - isn't turnabout fair play?

 

I apologize if I've led your down a road of suspicion that creates undeserved condemnation for a Godly man. And from that standpoint, I hope I haven't caused undo damage. Pray on this one Kay. And I will pray for you too. I hope God brings clarity and light and understanding to the Truth for you both.

 

And if my words are too strong or hurtful, I am open to suggestions or help. The ultimate goal here is saved souls and happy marriages, right?

[Kay]

Before the Intensive, we did not sleep in the same bed. Now, he is with me in our bed every single night. I am on his name on his computer every single night. He got a new cell phone number and I check that regularly. He calls me all the time, I call him a lot too. He works independently, part time, and is home a lot too. He is NOT involved with any other person, that much I know, I feel, and I believe. He made a huge mistake and cut all ties back in June. She moved out of State.

 

Now, as far as her being in his mind........ ??? who knows. He did tell me many times that he is trying to forget, and when I keep bringing it up, it makes him remember too. So, I stopped bringing it up.

 

As for the note, Yes, I checked it out - It was a Porn sight - He denied it and will continue to deny knowing anything about it. I don't want to live in the past, I want us to get better for our future.

 

I am very frustrated. Do I or Do I not initiate sex ???? He is not going to do it until it feels natural to him, and that could take awhile ?? Joel told him to make Love to your wife every day or every other day, and the more you do it, the more natural it will be for him. He told me today that that is simply not going to happen. He can't. He tells me, "maybe once a week, once a month ??" He can't handle more than that -and if that's what I need or what I want, then maybe we do need to separate.

Then, he calls back and apologizes and it just seems that he is as frustrated about all of this as I am.

 

I don't know how to handle this ?? I don't want to back down, but by enforcing the issue, is putting more pressure on him and I'm risking him pulling away from me. You can't demand sex ........ He has to want it, if he doesn't, then it isn't good for me either??????????

 

So............ now what ???????

 

Kay