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please read through BOTH of your threads ---

 

she wrote today:

I keep telling him, and i keep asking him to use LOVER and his immediate response is to say in an indignant voice "I am!" :o

 

 

ROCKY!

When your wife, your bride, your mirror, your MRI, your helpmeet, is telling you are doing something, YOU ARE. If she is telling that you need to use the LOVER, then this means you have NOT been demonstrating it. so, please go back to basics and re-learn the LOVER.

 

LISTEN to her (withOUT interrupting, arguing, explaining, defending, deflecting, excusing)

OFFER her an apology (again without using words to argue, explain, defend, excuse, etc and do not use the word BUT) - let her know she is right and that you are so thankful she brought this to your attention as you truly did not want to be hurting her

VALIDATE HER feelings -- (not YOUR feelings, but HER feelings -- how what you did that hurt her made her FEEL -- there is a whole list of "feeling" words if you can't seem to get it by listening to your wife)

EMBRACE (if she will allow it -- PURSUE the gentle and warm embrace) and ENCOURAGE her that you are in this marriage to stay - you are committed to blessing her

REPENT (this means to stop doing whatever it was that hurt her -- or start doing whatever it was you were neglecting for her) and let her know that you never want to do that hurtful action or inaction again. RESTITUTION (if needed) to try and make up for whatever it is it may have cost her -- or something even to bless her above and beyond!

 

LOVER does this without even considering that she will respond the way that you want her to respond. Leave it in God's hands and then keep on blessing your bride.

 

You have said you wanted to do this. so Get this done asap, and the road will become much more easy -- but you are still in the starting blocks and your wife's heart is dying.

 

As a Christian woman, God has placed a desire for you in her heart -- but, the scriptures say, Rocky, that we are NOT to tempt the Lord. So, just because He placed the desire for you in her heart never means you are free to treat her however you will. Why not try being thankful that she is such a tremendously perfectly suited helpmeet for you? And heed what she is telling you.

 

You CAN DO THIS!

 

We are cheering for you.

 

Blessings,

June of

 

 

re-read the 20/20/20/20 list, too... and the compliments: http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3395-101-romantic-ideas/

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Hi Rocky,

Wanted to offer you a word of encouragement in asking your beloved if she would like to join you on a trip in the car.

she wrote:

When Rocky is going somewhere, he says, "do you want to come, it doesn't matter if you don't, I don't want to control you by making a decision on your behalf, what do you want to do?"

 

Your insecurities are shining through all over the place on this. So, my suggestion is to read your wife's thread -- what she would love to hear is something like this:

"I would really like it if you would come with me........" and to give Charity the opportunity to say "yes please" or "no thank you".

 

Have a positive outlook on this, Rocky, that IF YOU WILL be pro-active in doing kind and gentle and loving things with a cherishing-type attitude of her, then Charity can receive healing, and you will both be superly blessed.

 

She is wanting your marriage to be joy-FILLED, Rocky. If you will do your part, I believe she is going to respond very warmly to your affection and devotion.

 

::love

 

 

so, get in gear -- and yes, get on the conference call tonight (your a.m. -- sounds like you need it)

 

June of

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Just a quick post to let you know I am reading Charity's thread, and we are talking about the ideas in a good book which she recently had recommended to her. There is much in it about listening - like listening to your wife's heart - which makes a lot of sense. Charity has been both encouraging when I begin to 'get it', and calling me when I miss opportunities. Thank you Charity.

 

Looking forward to a week's holiday, at home, with Charity. Some work to do on the house (maybe), but also plenty of opportunities to be together. Charity really needs me to switch from being 'task-focussed' to people focussed - in particular, her and God focussed! We can do it!

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Off to work soon, but just wanted to share something that is beginning to 'dawn' on me ... I actively seek praise from others - and so especially Charity - forgetting that this is not appropriate. We should seek to praise God, and remember that He sees everything and will reward us if we need it - and at the right time.

 

Charity is reminding me that none of us deserve a reward - this is all part of my carnal nature which is struggling to die!

 

Every time I do this I am denying Charity - and the family - the power and energy they need. I am trying to re-direct it onto me - and that is so selfish.

 

I think I am at the point of recognising this, and spotting when I do it - so that's half the battle. Next step is to change my mindset so that the thought is banished before it is even verbalised.

 

We read Proverbs 15 this morning. Verse 7 says 'The lips of the wise spread knowledge; not so the hearts of fools.' I have had the heart of such a fool, and Charity has lips that spread knowledge - very wise!

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I hear that you are treating Charity in unkind ways -- and then blaming her -- what is up, Rocky?

 

Did you forget the promises you have made on this thread? on the calls? to your bride?

 

Posted 30 September 2010 - 06:01 PM

 

View PostWard & June, on 30 September 2010 - 08:22 PM, said:

For the next SIX MONTHS, Rocky, are you willing to NEVER be right? never? Focus on truly loving her, following sincerely the concept of the LOVER apology? with a tender/softened voice? If you will, it will change your life.

 

 

No I am not! I am willing to never be right for the rest of our life together. Charity deserves nothing less!

 

Thank you for your encouragement. I can do it ... I will do it!

 

 

Please get on the call again ASAP --

 

 

prayerfully,

June of

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Glad you were on the call tonight, however Rocky, it was VERY disappointing to here such a tone of non-interest in your voice.

 

I asked you weeks ago. Have you made "the Decision" ??

 

Kathy Davisson wrote:

Posted 16 July 2010 - 08:59 AM

http://joelandkathy....dpost__p__86686

 

Quote

ok, this is the 4th time that I have tried to post this so I'm going to make it short and sweet. I haven't posted in a while because my attitude sucks. C wants me to post everyday and I don't want to. I don't ever have anything to say or write and the stuff I do post is always the same. I know I have a "craptitude" and that you all will nail me to the wall because of it. I have to be transparent if I am going to earn C's trust. I do want to do this and be the husband she needs me to be, I'm stuck right now and know a tantrum is coming if I don't get it out in the open now. Well, that's it. I'm going to try this again and see if it posts. B

 

 

 

Hi there. I know you don't want to do post and I know it is hard for guys, but it is important.

 

Sometimes in life you have to do things that you think are not necessary, but you will reap the benefit of the "doing" in due season.

 

When my kids were little, I would have them clean their room and do chores...which our kids thought were unnecessary for "kids.'

 

A few months ago, our daughter Jen got a job cleaning houses and she got raving reports from the owners of the house.

 

When she told me about the raving reports, I replied with "Your welcome....and smiled. :D

 

Even if it's a little, just post.

 

Quote

This is little more than empty words and I'm tired of hearing them. LOVE me!!! Give me the opportunity to SEE that the life of which I dream is a future reality rather than a fairy tale. You SAY you don't want to listen to the lies anymore and yet, when you have to face something you don't want to you seek them out for comfort. This marriage is dying. I cannot resurrect it. You must choose to feed life into it before it's too late. We are all counting on you. Please don't let us down, again.

 

 

Faith without Works is DEAD.

 

Talk is cheap without ACTIONS!

 

How about if I say that a little LOUDER.

 

TALK IS CHEAP WITHOUT ACTIONS.

 

That means DOING what she NEEDS you to do, without RESENTMENT!

 

EVERY wife is looking for ACTION. GOD is looking for ACTION.

 

You can do this. You can listen to your wife's heart. You can decide NOT to dwell on yourself and learn to focus OUT.

 

Do you see, that by FOCUSING OUT and FOCUS on your wife and children, that helps you to step out of "selfishness" because you are not being selfish.

 

It seems to me that you have not made the DECISION to live this life. You WANT to live this life, but you have not DECIDED to live this life.

 

I might have told the story at the intensive about the 75 year old man that came to our intensive.

 

He grew up in the Mafia, and that is all he knew. He neither new how to read or write. He had avoided prison on many different occasions.

 

At one point in their marriage, they decided to get out of the Mafia and had to go hide for a season.

 

Their marriage was so bad, that his wife begged him one day to "take her life." She said to him that since you had taken others lives, taking mine should be no problem to you.

 

Then, they found or book. Because he could not read, he had to listen to the book on cd and it changed his life.

 

I asked him, when you got through the book, was it half the battle when YOU decided to live this life.....

 

his reply was, NO, it was the WHOLE BATTLE!

 

Once the DECISION was made, the struggle was over, it was just a matter of walking it out.

 

Jesus wasn't STILL deciding if her was going to lay his life down for the BRIDE while on the way to the CROSS. NO, the DECISION was made in the garden....Father, not my will, but yours.

 

The price is WORTH IT. The results are AMAZING.

 

As I said, while you were here, "make the decision THIS WEEKEND, before you go home....THIS WEEKEND is your Garden of where Jesus made his decision.

 

Father, is there any other way???? Not MY will, but yours.

 

It was JESUS (THE HUSBAND) who went to the cross for the BRIDE. Who laid his life down for the BRIDE.

 

YOU HAVEN'T MADE THE DECISION THAT THIS IS THE LIFE.

 

YOU want the results of THIS LIFE WITHOUT paying the price to get it.

 

The longer you CHOOSE NOT to live this life, the longer it will take to get to an OHM.....IF your wife is STILL waiting and giving you a chance.

 

Sounds like, you are on the verge of falling off the cliff. :sad:

 

Back away from the cliff, lets get back on track and follow what we are telling you ....but not just in WORDS.......ACTIONS PLEASE!

 

Ask her what you can DO, to show her some beginning steps that you are SINCERE.....and

 

DO THEM......PERIOD.

 

I hope you will choose to DO this, before it is too late.

 

Sadly, some guys CHOOSE not to BELIEVE their wife....CHOOSE not to LIVE with their wife in an UNDERSTANDING WAY....choose not to DO the ACTIONS their wife so desperately needs.

 

The way I have been explaining this here lately....is:

 

A wife is in the desert, dehydrating. Her husband has the ability to give her WATER....but instead of giving her WATER, he gives her an Orange or a bananna or something else....ANYTHING but what their wife NEEDS.

 

Remember, Mother/son issues???? Do you really want your Mother/Son issues to conquer you or do you want to conquer your MOTHER/SON issues?

 

Maybe you need to come back to an INTENSIVE. You don't pay us for the Intensive....You obviously pay for the airfair, hotel, food, rental car etc....but not the $590

 

A 2nd time would probably do you some good....ACTUALLY, it would do you some "GREAT."

 

Blessings for now.

 

Here is hoping you CHOOSE LIFE and not DEATH. Choose ye THIS DAY whom YOU will SERVE??? YOURSELF or GOD. If God, then you choose to DO the actions without resentment that your wife NEEDS.

 

Kathy of Joel and Kathy ::love

 

 

If you will not make this Decision, Rocky, you ARE making the decision to emotionally divorce your bride. she is hurting so deeply and your passivity and non-compassion towards her is killing her soul.

 

There is another posting you should read as well as mother/son issues are probably also quite involved with this, too: http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/1026-mother-son-issues-by-joel/

 

praying for you,

June of

Edited by Ward & June
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I have promised Charity to post here at least once every day. I will be speaking to the children tomorrow, telling them they should also call me when they hear me hurting their Mum. They may not all understand, but they do need to know I'm ok with them supporting Charity in this way.

 

I am not proud of yesterday - it was a very bad day for Charity, and you heard how unkind I can be last night.

 

Today was our 24th Wedding Anniversary and although I gave Charity a card this morning, and took her out for a meal this evening, I missed too many opportunities to make it really special :( . Charity even suggested this last week - and I did not really give it much thought. This kind of thing (I think it is called romance?) is something that Charity has consistently missed out on, and it is an area I am very passive in. I kind of know what to do, but often only think of it after the event - too late! :( So this needs more careful planning on my part.

 

Anyway, thanks for all your support - especially for Charity who so needs to know she is doing the right thing. Thanks.

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Kimberly aka Pure In Heart posted:

Posted 07 October 2010 - 04:50 AM

Timothy,

 

I have been praying about the problems associated with passivity. I am aware in this ministry that there does seem to be a marked difference in the identification of specific issues that belong to the "passive" type of personality.

 

I believe the solutions are still the same irregardless of "personality" type. A passive man also needs to die to his peculiar set of sin issues.

 

I believe the other day God gave me a key. I am sure there are more to discover but this was helpful to me (I am a passive personality too and have been unwrapping this thing for myself to help others) I know what those "walls" look like!!

 

The passive man finds it hard to truly change his mind(repent) because he thinks that his passivity is not even wrong to begin with. He thinks, This isn't bothering me. I am keeping to myself, so what is wrong with that? I am not hurting anyone by doing nothing. I am comfortable. I am not feeling any pangs that would assist me in understanding that my behavior is abusive at all. So, what is everyone's problem?

 

For me, I became passive as a learned response with Joshua because he was so aggressive. (MY Dad was angry too, and distant...a passive/aggressive))I shut down and hid from emotional connection because it simply was too dangerous for me. I was either yelled at or ignored. Passives tend to do this same thing to others when they are adults. To avoid both of those extremes...neglect or anger...I learned to do things that would PLEASE people.

 

When I tried to speak up about my feelings, I got anger and/or negative feedback and had no idea what to do with it. So, I didn't deal with it. I grew used to that as a way of protecting myself and not trying to continue to fix something lest I fail. It was easier to stay behind a contrived facade and wall rather than looking at what I felt, taking inventory and actually doing something about it!! Truthfully, the way I handled this was to get busy "doing". I am not good at being still. There is a saying, that we are spiritual BEINGS not a spiritual DOING. Well, I was a DOING. To sit still long enough to connect (even with my children)was uncomfortable for me. I would clean or cook or do something else rather than spending TIME with them. As God is maturing me I am coming out of this. I am recognizing the subtlety of it all. I defined myself by what I did FOR people not how I was WITH people. I accepted the fact and thought there was nothing destructive about my behavior or should I say, lack of connecting with others. I thought staying safe in a comfort zone of non-relating was better than taking the risks of dealing with others emotions. I was poorly equipped, I falsely believed and so why try?

 

Like most passives, I was little "Miss Sunshine" or for the men...."Mr. Nice Guy" Just because I never said no to people had nothing to do with them but everything to do with me. It was about my feelings of being disturbed inside not really about how they would feel. I was protecting my right not to confront (self and others) and labeled it, "niceness". I used to say, it was their fault and blamed them for being assertive or "angry". Really it was because I was too afraid to be me, and assertive and confident in God. I had no SELF-control. I let others around me control what I did or did not do by their reactions instead of God's truth about what is healthy and Godly thinking and behaving. The lie comes in right here because by NOT doing the right thing, I end up controlling situations, people and outcomes. By choosing NOT to relate...I was still making a choice. Because now I AM determining right and wrong. I am determining for myself who and when I will relate, under what circumstances, what effects me positively or negatively and if the other person needs something differently, then in my mind they are wrong for needing anything. To avoid this conflict or dealing with feelings passives switch to tasking to hide their feelings and staying busy so no one can nail them down.

 

For a guy who is passive.....this is also most likely a learned response in his family system. He had to learn to hold feelings to himself because he was either not heard, got in trouble or faced anger if he voiced his feelings. When a person comes across as non-confrontational, nice, and even out-going...they are generally liked. So now we have a person who is emotionally inept and immature but they are being applauded and accepted for this dysfunctional behavior. There is a pay off for them. There is no need to work at emotional out-put because to give and take that risk may also mean risking the applause of men. That is called an internal quandary!!

 

behaviors that hurt others are to a passive, NOT a big deal. After all it does not make them uncomfortable, does not change the bottom line for them or staying on disconnect from others really does not bother them. They are so comfortable with their disconnect that they can not fathom what the big deal is, especially if the recipient of their lack of engaging and emotional output is in a marriage with a wife. I would say, the passive's KEY issue is fear of "emotional output" and thinking there is nothing innately destructive about it. After all they are cocooned inside their niceness and reinforcement from others so why should they ever change?

 

AND why should they REPENT? When we hear these poor wives begging for emotional connection and the men go through the motions of DOING or tasking and go through the L.O.V.E.R. but can't change their mind or REPENT because they do not think they need to change and be forgiven for it. They are caught inside a deception and lie that gets reinforced constantly from others outside their primary relationships at home. Sadly, this passivity grows and starts to effect other areas of their life. They put things off, are careless, do not focus outward, have grown content with nothing be required of them.

 

One of the difficulties in this ministry is that a wife loses her bearings NOT because he makes mistakes but because he is not seeing the need to change what she is pointing out to him. If he does not "get" what she is needing him to see, understand fully his specific problem, that it is abusive, wrong and destructive, and face it, then she knows there is NO chance of authentic change coming. That robs her peace and hope. She can not get healing if he does NOT change the very thing that is hurting her.

 

If a passive doesn't think that something will effect them negatively then they think it shouldn't bother the other person either. Which makes the other person feel like they are taking away their rights to be effected or hurt by their behavior. They can not change because they will not repent. How does he change his mind when he thinks his mind does not even need to be changed?

 

A husband went to balance a checkbook at his wife's request(by all appearances indicates he is "listening" to her heart) He said fine (tasking).....he forgot the password and so could not do it. He was careless, but he does not see it that way, he sees it as "forgetting" (minimizing, not facing himself)...she is wounded....she comes home and is UPSET(she is showing emotion..ut, oh...feelings.....he has to get away from that (because his feelings of dealing with her feelings triggered HIS FEELINGS)..he apologizes (going through the outward steps without realizing there is no inward change)...her spirit picks up on it....he begins to run from her feelings, gets upset, defends without ever seeing the real sin issue. Worse is that he does not see it as SIN, a coping mechanism, or his Arrested Development.

 

The real issue is carelessness...carelessness a million times. The issue is that his neglect and laziness HURTS his wife. He has become non-attentive to her needs. These are not good character qualities. She is Seeing CLEARLY his issue. He doesn't care because not balancing the check book doesn't hurt him or bother him. Really, his feelings and safety emotionally are not effected, so who cares?

 

It was never about meeting her need was it? He is only meeting his own need based on whether something effects his emotions negatively or positively. Balancing the checkbook cost him nothing emotionally therefore, he is fine with it. NOT balancing the checkbook is fine with him too and so he is fine with it. BUT...NOW his wife is a wreck and crying and he is stupefied. After all, he "apologized", tried to task, therefore, in his mind it is her problem. Her response has nothing to do with him, he thinks!! In his passivity he could care less she is hurt because he does not think there is any reason to be hurt. Talk about under-cover control!! Her NEED to be validated that his careless attitude causes her to feel abandoned all the time and hung out to dry is nothing to him.

 

Push the passive for holding onto to this belief and he will then get aggressive. He feels bad for that but still never gets to the real issue. Now he is looking at the blow-up instead of how he is neglectful, careless, self-focused (because he controls what hurts others based on what hurts him...he does or relates only based on how it effects or does not effect himself) The anger actually took the focus off of the real problem so it never gets fixed. The wife is left hurting and feeling crazy.

 

What does the passive do? Blames her. He thinks she is making too much of it. He thinks the other person is controlling him. He thinks they are criticizing. He feels punished wrongly. If he is pushed he defaults to self-pity and "I am a failure mode". That tactic is really to get out of dealing with the other person's emotions too. They use it as an excuse so no one will confront them. It is a manipulative weapon to take the heat off themselves hoping the wounded party will feel sorry for them. He punishes by cutting the person off, withhold feelings, opt out of relationship and hurt others even MORE.

 

Hope this helps. Sorry, I rambled. :blink:

 

Kimberly

 

I think this might help, Rocky --

 

 

 

Blessings,

June of

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One of the difficulties in this ministry is that a wife loses her bearings NOT because he makes mistakes but because he is not seeing the need to change what she is pointing out to him. If he does not "get" what she is needing him to see, understand fully his specific problem, that it is abusive, wrong and destructive, and face it, then she knows there is NO chance of authentic change coming. That robs her peace and hope. She can not get healing if he does NOT change the very thing that is hurting her.

 

Thank you for posting this. Yes, it is very much me - and Charity agrees. I see that I need to accept Charity's hurt, my responsibility for it, repent of it and that means stop hurting her. Whether or not I understand why she's hurt is less important than accepting that she IS hurt, and doing all I can to bring healing.

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Rocky,

something is standing in your way of becoming a good husband -- it is not God.

 

We believe that you NEED TO COME TO AN INTENSIVE to "get this" concept into the depths of your being -- because your marriage is at a very serious crossroads.

 

which is going to be less expensive: attending the Intensive or getting divorced?

 

which is going to give you the tools you need to DO THIS?: attending Intensive or separation?

 

which is going to give more honor to God: following thru with an Intensive or family break-up

 

When Ward and I attended the Intensive we did not have the $$, but felt it was very important that we used up important home equity in our home -- to save our MARRIAGE. WOW! Are we so glad that we did.

 

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3656-my-prince-has-come/ tells what happened to them -- and they had all types of things trying to keep them from coming, even a hurricane!

 

Please remember that you are responsible to God Almighty, the Maker of the heavens and earth and you, for how you treat your bride. So, if going to an Intensive will show you truly how to get to an OHM, don't you think it is worth it?

 

side jobs, anything extra, Rocky? you need to be doing all you can -- sell YOUR "stuff" that you really don't need and put this $$ towards showing Charity that you love her

 

my .02 and that of other helpers,

June of

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Rocky, in the 2+ years I've been around this ministry, I've seen a common difference between the guys who seem to get this, and the guys who struggle and then eventually give up.

 

The men who struggle want to DO this. They look at it as a checklist of actions, and if they can only put the right number of marks in the right boxes, their wife will be happy and all will be well with the world. They concentrate on getting the boxes checked, and if they miss something they tend to be hyperfocused on pointing out all the boxes they have checked, in hopes that they will be given grace for the one they missed. They are still looking primarily at themselves and their performance, as if this were a college course on Husband 101 and they must pass it with an A. If the "teacher" (their wife) gives them poor marks, they will argue for a better grade.

 

The men who get this go through the above stage at first, but then at some point they decide they want to BE this. They want to be the husband their wife needs. They want to be a Christlike man. They take a good, hard, honest look at their character and realize it sucks. They honestly desire to make the internal changes that need to be made. Their focus moves from checking the boxes to understanding their wife's needs and doing their best to meet them, because they never want to hurt her again. When they miss it, they are not concerned about their performance, as if they'd gotten a poor grade on a paper, but on the hurt they caused their wife. They understand that by loving their wife, they are getting whole and healed, and they honestly want that.

 

You are solidly stuck in DO, Rocky, and if you are ever going to really be successful as a husband, at some point you need to switch to BE. Otherwise you are going to stay right where you are - worried about your own performance and resentful when Charity doesn't give you the credit you feel is due.

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Looney -- that is such an awesome post -- we need to have it PINNED!

 

Kathy just posted another truly wonderful post re: What does a HERO look like/

 

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/3676-what-does-a-hero-look-like/page__pid__98797__st__0entry98797

 

 

Hope you take these to heart, Rocky.

 

 

We are rooting for you to "get this" SOON!

 

prayerfully,

June of

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We stayed up most of last night and listened to most of the phone call, as well as taking part. This morning I guess I was quite irritable when I got up, and have not used the time before Charity goes to visit her father particularly well.

 

I keep asking Charity to respond to me, and shrink back from taking any risks in showing initiative - that makes me the 'wife', or the son with Charity as my Mum. Neither of these are how God intends, so my decision is to change this by committing to Charity and to God; to follow the programme and remain accountable.

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From your wife's thread:

 

Rocky has the amazing capacity to make me feel so small and so insignificant. I have taken over the payment for the utility bills in preparation for him moving out, I have just one more to manage I think.

 

I came home from caring for my dad for most of the day (he is VERY ill), and I was tired and exhausted. Rocky chose to belittle me rather than supporting me.

 

I am SO tired! I just need a break from the icy cold and arrogant attitude that Rocky persists in showing me.

 

Rocky, do me a favor . . . shut up! I am SO tired of hearing what you're going to do, and then watching you turn around and refuse to do one blinkin' bit of it. You think that by making promises you can buy yourself a little more time, and all the while your wife is dying inside. Just. Shut. Up. :angry:

 

I don't think you actually have any intention of making any changes, because you love yourself just the way you are.

 

Prove me wrong. I dare you.

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I need some help please. After a very bad time, Charity has rightly asked me to give her a letter of apology and suggested I post it here for others to help me with.

 

If the words I have written remain just that and nothing more, I will have wasted everyone's time. When they are put into practice, and continue to be, I know that Charity will let you know on her thread.

 

This is my draft letter:

 

Dear Charity

 

My behaviour has been outrageously bad, and you deserve not only a sincere apology but also a genuine commitment to put things right and a promise never to hurt you ever again.

 

Last Sunday, my irritable behaviour was entirely my own fault and caused you a great deal of distress. I did not respect you - or the rest of the family - and this hurt you greatly. Since then, I have been ignoring you - never once asking you to be here at home, to give yourself the time you need (e.g. for your studies), and letting you give so much, as you always do, to others. Your father and your step-mother are in great need, and will have benefited greatly from your intensive care and support, especially in this last week or so.

Your needs are important too.

 

During this particularly difficult time, I have not really been listening to you properly, there have been no dates for you to look forward to; the attempts at smiles, kisses, hugs and compliments has fallen well short of 20/20/20/20; and there has been no real intimacy.

 

I have gone back to enjoying the glory of acting as a 'Silent Knight' by doing stuff to please people, and expecting recognition and praise for it. This has been to your detriment, and also taken my time and energy away from considering you and your needs, all of which are legitimate. I will completely stop doing this.

 

As a faithful daughter of God, you have continued to respond to whatever I have initiated. For most of the time this has not been life-giving. It has been dissention (in which I more quickly complain than show grace to others), factions (in separating you and the children), fits of rage (in me - returning to the toddler tantrums you should reasonably have expected me to have left behind), selfish ambition (in setting my own agendas and financial management, or rather, mis-management and not collaborating with you on them), rudeness (by persisting with a tone of voice and body language that lacks gentleness or warmth, and by using poor eye contact with you), and discontent (never satisfied, and always wanting more).

 

God has called me to initiate life, and that is what I promise to bring by:

- studying the scriptures daily with you and making sure something I read is applied to my life that day – meditating on God's word;

- inviting you to pray with me for our relationship, for the family and for whatever is on your heart, that is on God's heart too;

- setting aside time for us to be together, uninterrupted, and to practise the listening skills I have been learning about;

- planning dates, including a weekend away, that are within the budget we will discuss and agree on first;

- supporting you in the financial management of the family in ways which remove the control that I have had, and share it with you. I shall make a fair contribution to the family's needs, having first discussed and agreed it with you, and ensure that I am no longer a 'skin-flint' but quietly generous (not acting as 'Silent Knight' again);

- enjoying life, and bringing energy to the family, as the beginning of the outrageously happy marriage which you have always deserved;

- reading and re-reading the 'Marriage Manual' which you so kindly spent time creating to help me, accepting the ongoing additions and changes which such an 'organic' document should contain;

- doing things the first time you ask so you don't need to waste your precious time and energy reminding me;

- finding creative ways to support you in things such as your studies, your exercise programme, your creativity (photography, baking, etc.) and all your leisure time;

 

I am so sorry for doing all this to you. Thank you for giving me another chance. This is amazing grace, to a wretch like me.

 

Yours with all my love

 

Rocky Bee

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Hi

 

Charity has kindly read her posts to me, and I am now posting using her computer as mine is temporarily a bit poorly :(

 

There seems to have been a lot on her thread recently, and we have been reading it through. I need to take accountability for my constant requests for understanding and explanations. This is an avoidance tactic.

 

My biggest problem seems to be that I say what I think people want to hear - to please them. Last evening, I just wanted to go to bed and sleep, but said what I thought Charity wanted to hear. I can see how this hurt her, and it is very understandable that it would. It is more loving to be honest with people - including the children - and not promise things I cannot do.

 

I can stop being passive - and understand that even doing the 'wrong' thing is better than doing nothing. Charity quickly tells me when it is the 'wrong' thing, so this helps to keep the 'Marriage Manual' up to date.

 

As soon as we can raise the finance (by me finding more work, etc.) we will be over for an Intensive. I am sure that this is what we need. The phone calls are great, but no substitute for meeting 'face to face'.

 

The advice we are being given on both our threads contains much wisdom, and I do appreciate the time and energy each of you is giving to us. I hope it will not be long before we can show you our outrageously happy marriage!

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Rocky, have you read this?

 

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/833-favorite-posts-by-pure-in-heart/page__view__findpost__p__96688

 

If you have, read it again.

 

I think the reason you're struggling so much is that, deep down inside, you don't really believe there's anything wrong with you. You are still looking at this as changing behaviors rather than changing your character. The difference between DO and BE is finally realizing that you are abusive at your core and determining not to be that way anymore.

 

Tell me something - if you are not feeling well or just in a bad mood at work, do you treat your boss and coworkers badly? Somehow I don't think so. I think you paste a smile on your face and talk nicely to them no matter how you feel inside. If not, you'd probably be out of a job before long. So why do you refuse to do the same at home? Why is Charity not worth the effort to be nice? I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, but what do you think?

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Tell me something - if you are not feeling well or just in a bad mood at work, do you treat your boss and coworkers badly? Somehow I don't think so. I think you paste a smile on your face and talk nicely to them no matter how you feel inside. If not, you'd probably be out of a job before long. So why do you refuse to do the same at home? Why is Charity not worth the effort to be nice? I'm pretty sure I already know the answer, but what do you think?

 

 

Hi there, I was "coasting through the forum" and this paragraph caught my attention.

 

RockyBee, when you go home, you need to stop at the door and put on a new hat.

 

I literally tell men to buy a hat that says, "husband, lover,friend and daddy," and put it on before you walk in the door. That is remind you, that you are HOME and what your job is.

 

As a husband, you listen to her heart and DO

 

As a Lover, you pursue her romantically all day long. (calls, txts, pats on the tush, HSKC etc)

 

As a Friend, you become a "safe" place for her. You listen. You care. Your understanding. Your considerate and kind.

 

and

 

As a Daddy, you play. Spend time with your children "DO" ing, things that they like to do, not just things YOU like to do with them. You and your wife, AS A TEAM, guide and train up your children in the way they should go.

 

Your job is suppose to be just a means to allow you the privilege of doing what is most important in your life....being a husband, lover, friend and daddy.

 

There was a doctor who came to our Intensive. He was taught in medical school to "not have a heart." He, as a doctor, is suppose to make decisions without his patients feelings or emotions influencing him in any way.

 

When he would go home, that is how he ran things at home. His wife's feelings, emotions, opinion etc did not matter. He didn't have a heart at home. No one's thoughts, emotions or feelings mattered, except his!

 

When you come home, you have got to put on a "different" hat. Be ready to be a husband, love, friend and daddy. The people you are coming home to are the most important people in your world.

 

They are the ones that matter the most....or should.

 

You will notice, the moderators and helpers, have to be much like a doctor. They can't allow your feelings, emotions etc to influence the advice they give to you.

 

They can't allow their emotions or feelings to get in the way. If they did, they would hold back on the advice (medicine) that you need to hear.

 

They are giving the advice that they do, because they know that if you take the advice and "DO" that your future in about to change. Change for the better.

 

so DO what they are telling you. The medicine is only going to made you a better man.

 

We are ultimately just pointing you back to your wife's heart.

 

Listening to her heart and what she has to say.

 

Ultimately, we are just asking you to be a proactive husband, lover and friend for your wife and a proactive daddy for your children.

 

And beyond that, all we are asking you to do, is be a Christ-like man of God behind closed doors....where is counts the MOST.

 

So put on a different hat when you get home. A proactive hat. A positive proactive man of God.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Blessings, Kathy of Joel and Kathy ::love

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Thanks, Kathy - yes, it does help. I recognise that I do behave differently outside the home. What has not been ok is that Charity and the children have not felt safe because my behaviour is worse at home than outside. Not only do I need to mentally 'put on a hat' as I come home, I need to make it a hat of positive initiation and proactivity. This is what Charity needs, and what she is brilliant and telling me!

 

When we read Hebrews 12 this morning, we noticed the first verses include the idea of getting rids of sins 'that so easily entangle'. For me, that has included having a deep desire to 'please' everybody - with the result that I either fail, or I look like a 'Silent Knight'. God calls me to love Charity, not simply 'please' her. And loving her, and the children next, may not always fit with 'pleasing' others. I have to decide ... to stop trying to please, which only becomes a tangled mess. I have spent a lifetime doing this, and enjoying the praise and recognition it brings. Without doubt, I need to die to this - it is not Christ-like, and does not honour Charity.

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True enough, your home is a "safe" place to DO nothing and to BE carnal - in part, thanks to Charity's arrestedness (fear of man and desire for you).

 

Coming to a place of realizing the damage this insiduous behavior does and then repenting of it and DECIDING to turn 180 degrees away from it is key to rescuing your family from this generational sin. BE good from the inside out FOR God. Let Charity's voice and needs GUIDE you.

 

We are also coaching Charity to come out of her fear based place and to know her worth and to stand up to passivity and carnality and to use her voice regardless of how she might feel shut down by you.

 

She is SO GOOD for you. God doesn't want man to be alone and so he made a helpmeet for him. How she responds/feels to your treatment is, in essence, the holy Spirit showing you how to be Christlike. She is the manifest of the HS in your marriage where you are the manifest of Jesus in your marriage. "Let US make THEM in our image." Her feelings are LIKE the Holy Spirit, your treatment is to be LIKE Jesus. It is GOOD!

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Charity has written on her thread ...

 

So Rocky what is my repeat request? Please will you persevere with loving me selflessly and provide enough time for me to respond to that selfless action? Would you allow me to respond to selfless love in MY time - not yours - you really are quite impatient. You are much more able to quote the fruit of the Spirit than I am (Gal. 5:22), SO please love me selflessly for long enough for me to respond, and please do NOT expect a parade.

 

Yes - I will persevere, yes - I am impatient, yes - I will try to love you long enough for you to respond, and I am not expecting a parade.

 

Thank you, Charity, for being such a fantastic help-meet - among many other wonderful things that you are. And how dare I be so impatient when expecting you to continue to be patient with me. You have the patience of a saint ... and you are an angel ... though I think that is a little theologically confused?

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