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My wife and I are new to this ministry. We attended the Intensive in April of this year and have been on the calls and reading on a regular basis. We have not been as consistant with the DVD's and that's my fault. I am having problems with 20 HSKC and properly using L-O-V-E-R. I listen and instead of validating I deflect or justify my actions. I realize now that this is because of my selfishness and the need to protect me first at all cost. I realize this is the kind of action that has my family in this mess. I can do well with the steps for maybe two or three days and then flame out. My wife is sick and tired of the emotional roller coaster! When my wife is pouring her heart out and telling me how much pain she feels I immediately want to disconnect or get away as fast as I can. I am beginning to understand that I am very passive by listening to the Wed. night calls hosted by Jeff and Heather. I think Jeff and I were cut from the same cloth. I have been putting up walls and blocking any expressed feelings with the exception of anger. It's been four months since the intensive and I am ready to begin finally. I realize now that I can't do this by myself. I will need God's help and this ministry for any chance at healing my wife's pain.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Blockhead

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My wife and I are new to this ministry. We attended the Intensive in April of this year and have been on the calls and reading on a regular basis. We have not been as consistant with the DVD's and that's my fault. I am having problems with 20 HSKC and properly using L-O-V-E-R. I listen and instead of validating I deflect or justify my actions. I realize now that this is because of my selfishness and the need to protect me first at all cost. I realize this is the kind of action that has my family in this mess. I can do well with the steps for maybe two or three days and then flame out. My wife is sick and tired of the emotional roller coaster! When my wife is pouring her heart out and telling me how much pain she feels I immediately want to disconnect or get away as fast as I can. I am beginning to understand that I am very passive by listening to the Wed. night calls hosted by Jeff and Heather. I think Jeff and I were cut from the same cloth. I have been putting up walls and blocking any expressed feelings with the exception of anger. It's been four months since the intensive and I am ready to begin finally. I realize now that I can't do this by myself. I will need God's help and this ministry for any chance at healing my wife's pain.

 

Thanks,

 

 

Blockhead

 

Glad you FINALLY made up your mind to do the right thing --- you wife has been in agony because SHE knows that YOU KNOW what to do, since you were at an Intensive FOUR LONG MONTHS AGO!

AS the wife of a very very passive husband who delayed his "doing good" for me for 2-1/2 years after me knowing that he knew what to do --- IT IS CRUEL TORTURE.

 

So, now that you know ---

I need to ask:

Are you doing your homework?

Have you read the PLEASE READ THIS SECTION FIRST in its entirety -- every video segment/every link, the Abuse/Power/Control questionaire??

 

How is it hard to do the 20/20/20/20? You walk by her and smile -- touch her arm, hug her if she'll let you (you have to remember you have been torturing her, but also that IF she is still engaged with living in the same home with you, she may still be open to a sweet hug ... or she might not), a kiss -- on her shoulder? her cheek, her lips? -- you CAN ASK her, you know --- she may say ok, she may say not now -- hey -- you are reaping what you sowed and lots more of it --- 20 compliments -- write them down in a note, say it with your words.... GET TO IT! Of all the things to do the 20/20/20/20 should be the easiest, but for some reason the possibility of "rejection" with the PASSIVE HUSBAND (especially the "silent knight" silence abusers) are the hardest to get you INTO GEAR to do this... the sad irony is, that your wife is YEARNING to respond to such kindness.

 

I will tell you that FINALLY WHEN WARD started doing this after delay delay delay that when I did allow a hug, it was with arms crossed on my part --- until I realized that he had truly changed and then the hugs became more tender for me. If this is what your wife allows, then BE GRATEFUL she is allowing you anywhere near her.

 

DUCT TAPE -- this is what you may need to remind yourself to

LISTEN without arguing, defending, explaining, deflecting, interrupting --

 

Offer APOLOGY without arguing, defending, explaining, deflecting

 

VALIDATE her feelings meaning that you are repeating back to her the feeling that she has and acknowledging that she is indeed RIGHT TO FEEL THAT WAY -- and you are so sorry for ONCE AGAIN making her feel that way

 

EMBRACE her (if she allows it -- Encourage her by letting her know you are IN THIS and want to become a Christlike husband)

 

REPENT (do not do the action, the inaction, the bad words, the silence EVER AGAIN) and make RESTITUTION (if needed)

 

you do realize, blockhead, that the one who wants you to continue abusing your bride is satan.

SO, whom do you want to serve? The Lord God who has allowed you the opportunity/privilege/responsibility of caring/loving one of His daughers, your bride? or satan? The choice is clear... and the choice is made daily.

 

Several times a day, ask your bride, "How can I bless you?" "What can I do to bless you?"

and then DO IT RIGHT AWAY -- and come back and ask again.

 

Did you write your list of 100 things you have done/or not done to hurt your bride throughout your marriage? If you need a list it's at the end of Ch.14 of Livin' It and Lovin' It

You probably have 100 more just since April when you SHOULD HAVE BEEN bringing healing to your wife's heart.... so, get to this list ... IF YOU ARE NOT at a place in your mind where you admit that you are an abuser, you will be stuck. IF YOU stay stuck in the thought of you are an abuser but do not use this as motivation to bring healing to your wife's heart, you will stay stuck....

 

SO, get to your homework, the reading of Please Read This Section First, the conference calls (AND BE HONEST WITH THE MODERATOR AND TELL THEM YOU ARE PASSIVE AND AN ABUSER), and the 20/20/20/20 TODAY!!!!!! Time's a-wasting!

 

Joel asked Ward, "You are married to a Christian woman, so IF YOU are not going to love your wife, WHO is?

 

SHE NEEDS LOVING BY HER HUSBAND --- agape-loving -- you always putting her first! It IS a win-win if you'll do this, so GET TO IT!

 

Hoping that you are really "teachable" this time.

 

my multi .02

June of

Edited by Ward & June
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Welcome - I'm glad you started posting.

 

I should warn you that I'm a call-'em-like-I-see-'em kind of girl. You may find that you don't like me very much by the time I'm done. :rolleyes: That's ok.

 

I think you need to start by making an honest assessment of the problems in your marriage, because right now it seems like you and your wife are in two different marriages. Your summary of the problems is very different from hers, and you need to take a good, hard look at yourself. Hint . . . the word honest has a lot to do with it.

 

It seems as though you are a nice, likable guy who tells everyone what they want to hear, and then does whatever he dang well pleases anyway. I'm guessing that you actually have a rather low opinion of yourself deep down inside, hence your need to say whatever you need to say to make yourself look good. It seems like you need to be in control of every situation, lest people really see you for who you are. It seems like you will do tasks until the cows come home, but never actually connect emotionally. Am I touching any raw spots yet?

 

If you want to stay married, you need to come out from behind that wall you've built and learn how to have a real relationship. Stop tasking, stop making yourself look good, and learn how to connect with your wife's heart.

 

How do I know all this? I was married to your twin brother. I say WAS because, although he went through the motions for a time, in the end he refused to break down that wall and love me. It was either leave him there or die there with him, and I was not willing to die.

 

You CAN do this - the question is, are you willing? It's not going to be easy. It will require changing almost everything about yourself, until the man God created can finally be set free. It will be overwhelmingly painful at times, but it will be SO worth it. In the end, though, it's up to you - we can help you, but you are the only one who can do it.

 

If you're willing to get started, I have an assignment for you. I'd like you to read this thread:

 

http://joelandkathy.invisionzone.com/index.php?/topic/1000-the-donkey-the-delorean-eeyore-herdensity/

 

It's a long thread . . . it was originally two separate husband/wife threads, and then they merged them. It's up over a hundred pages, so you are not going to read it all in one sitting. Her Density was very much like you - the operative word being WAS. He has done some incredibly hard work over the past year and a half, and he is not the same man he was when he started. Is he there yet? Nope. Does he still crash and burn? You bet. Does he still hurt his wife? Unfortunately, yes . . . but he works through it and makes the changes he needs to make and does his best to heal her heart. How do I know he's not just saying the right stuff on a forum where nobody sees him? Because his wife is my baby sister in every way but biologically, and I live with them every weekend.

 

So man up, decide you are going to do this, and dig down inside yourself to find the determination to follow through. Your wife deserves to be with that guy she sees inside you, not the one he's hiding behind.

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Thank you Looney Tunes and June,

 

Let me start by saying being nice to me doesn't work! You are both right , I do worry about how I look to other people and I am an abusive husband. And what's worst I always criticized my wife for worrying about what people thought of her. All she was trying to do was connect with me and share her concerns and FEELINGS which I wanted nothing to do with. I want to save my marriage. I love my wife!! I am sorry for the pain I have inflicted on her and I want to make it right. Every bone in my body right now wants to explain why I have had a problem with the 20/20/20/20's. But you are both right and I am not going to waist the space with more justifications and excuses. I have waisted enough precious time and my wife deserves more.

 

I have avoided posting because I knew I would be held accountable. I have alot of work to do.

 

Thank You

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hi blockhead,

It's been four months since the intensive and I am ready to begin finally. I realize now that I can't do this by myself. I will need God's help and this ministry for any chance at healing my wife's pain.

and

I have waisted enough precious time and my wife deserves more.

I have avoided posting because I knew I would be held accountable. I have alot of work to do.

 

So, let us help you to get on your journey to bringing healing to your wife's heart by answering ALL of the questions from our postings above...

 

 

Thank you,

June of

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Let me start by saying being nice to me doesn't work!

 

Then we should get along just fine. ;)

 

I am not going to waist the space with more justifications and excuses.

 

Thank you. Frankly, nobody cares. And don't waste your wife's time - she doesn't care either.

 

I have alot of work to do.

 

You certainly do. Most of the men who find themselves her have a lot of work to do - if you didn't, you wouldn't be here.

 

The only way for us to help you is if you really start sharing here . . . what are you struggling with, what's holding you back? Your post, although appreciated, doesn't really say anything. We already know you're abusive - HOW are you abusive? We already know that you care deeply about What Other People Think - that's the main reason you lie. It's probably going to kill you to open yourself up to a bunch of people you've never met (good, you need to die!), but if you don't, you are going to stay stuck where you are. I promise that no one here is mean or out to get you, although it may feel like that at times.

 

I don't want you and your wife to end up where I am, so let's get this thing done, ok?

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Looney Tunes,

 

 

I am struggling with everything. It's like my head is swimming in all directions and I am confused. I am struggling to initiate anything for fear of rejection. Fear of showing real emotion because I was taught not to. Showing emotion was a sign of weakness. I think maybe over the past 20 years I have focused on the only things I could bring to the table, TASK. It also is the easiest for me to do. Looney, I haven't given 20 hugs to any one person in my life!!!! And now 20 in a day. That's change. I thought by working hard at home and at work would make everything OK. What's holding me back? I don't know? I am thinking maybe stop with the TASK. Just focus on my wife and ask her what will bless her instead of assumimg I know what she needs me to do. It is difficult for me to listen to her pain. It is difficult for me to connect emotionally for reasons I do not understand. I do have a heart. I feel emotions but I do not show them??

 

I will read the site with the 100 pages and the "Please Read This Section First". I will be on the Wed night calls for sure. Tomorrow night I will have to take the call on the road but I will be there. I will be honest with them. I am starting to learn things about myself that are not fun. I think I have lived my life with a chip on my shoulder for reasons I don't understand.

 

 

I have walls. I feel it when thet go up but I don't know why?? I am a damaged unit.

 

 

Thanks

 

Blaockhead

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You're not doing anything I'm not familiar with. You CAN change this.

 

FEAR = False Expectations Appearing Real

 

I am struggling to initiate anything for fear of rejection.

 

Yup. So let's unpack this for a minute. What is the worst thing that is going to happen to you if you try something and it's not what LRG needs? Hopefully she will feel calm enough to recognize that you made an effort, even if it wasn't what she needed. If not . . . well, I know she yells. You've heard her yell before, and you didn't die. You probably won't this time. She is unlikely to cause you physical injury. So just take the plunge and do something, ok? Remember that you are dying to your feelings right now - when that feeling of rejection comes up, recognize that it's from satan and send it back to the pit where it belongs.

 

And start trying to understand . . . because I know you struggle with this . . . that just because she doesn't like what you've done doesn't mean she doesn't love you. Your wife is still with you because she still believes in that man who's buried deep inside of you. She knows you have an awesome, strong, loving man in there somewhere. It's the man she saw when she fell in love with you. If she'd given up on him, she'd be gone. She WANTS you to get this. You are just gonna have to take my word for it, because your wife is so hurt that she's having trouble with those feelings right now.

 

Showing emotion was a sign of weakness.

 

Wrong. It's a sign of strength. I know that's how you were taught, and the only way you can overcome that is to just accept that it's wrong. Pretend you're at work with me for a minute. Every time you give meds, the kid's IV blows an hour later. You can't figure out what's going on, and so I come along and watch you give your meds. I find out you're pushing gentamycin. You can't push gentamycin - it's caustic. Well, you tell me, that's how you were taught. At that moment, you need to accept that what you were taught is wrong, and that by doing things that way, you are causing damage to your patients. Same thing here - stuffing your emotions is wrong, and you are causing untold damage to your wife and kids.

 

Remember that not showing emotion is your default setting, so you are going to have to make a conscious choice to do it differently until it becomes automatic. Also, showing emotion doesn't mean that you are allowed to dump all your negative junk on your wife. No crying on her shoulder or telling her how bad YOU feel. Show her love, joy, peace - positive emotions. The negative junk gets dumped here.

 

Rom 12:2 says Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. This is a command - YOU have to renew your mind. That means, when you find your thoughts spiraling downward, you consciously choose to think about something else.

 

I am thinking maybe stop with the TASK. Just focus on my wife and ask her what will bless her instead of assumimg I know what she needs me to do.

 

BINGO! Ask LRG what she needs. She'll tell you. It's easy for you passive guys to task . . . actually, it's one of your strengths when used in the right way. A strength taken to an extreme becomes a weakness, though, and you have gotten to the point where you are using the tasks to hide behind. Tasks are good if that's what LRG needs at the moment, but if what she needs is for you to sit and talk with her, then the tasks become a nail in the coffin.

 

Please try to get through HD and Eeyore's thread asap . . . so much of what you need to hear is already written there.

 

I know you can do this - if I didn't think so, I wouldn't waste my time posting to you. Get out of your head - not easy, I know - and focus on your wife. Ask her what you can do to bless her, and then follow through. However, don't put her in the position of being your mommy - you are a smart guy and you can figure some things out for yourself. She does not want to feel like you're a puppet who doesn't move unless she pulls the string. It's kind of like your job - when you are just learning, your boss tells you everything you need to do, but at some point you are expected to do things on your own. Right now you're learning, but if you are paying close attention to what she's telling you you'll soon know what she needs.

 

So . . . how was the couch? :P

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Looney,

 

The couch was not good. I surely don't want to be on it for very long. I am listening to Heather and Kathy rip this guy to shreds on the call tonight. I was going to get on when I get a chance, but now I don't know!!! I was late returning from work and by the time I got the kids to bed it was really late. My wife is out of town tonight so I am holding down the fort. I am thinking to much about the steps instead of just doing it. It's in my head. Did I mention that I am as stuborn as a mule? It's a hugh fault. Did I mention that I am a control freak? The main reasons why I haven't done this yet are probably:

 

I am stubborn.

 

I am trying to control it in some stupid way??

 

I am pretty clueless. Example I have been trying to figure out what LRG is?? I am assuming that is my wifes nickname on the forum?

 

I must die to this garbage. My wife has asked me to fix this financial mess I caused and that's what I am going to continue with the rest of tonight. I thought this was something I could do in one day. Again I was wrong. My wife ask me to get this done a month ago but I kept making excuses why I couldn't. Another example of what not to do.

 

I am making a concious decision from this point on to do what my wife ask immediately and show her that I do love her. It's time to stop being concerned about me. It's time to stop selfishness. It's the source of great pain to my wife.

 

 

Thank you and I am not going to quit.

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Looney,

 

The couch was not good. I surely don't want to be on it for very long. I am listening to Heather and Kathy rip this guy to shreds on the call tonight. I was going to get on when I get a chance, but now I don't know!!! I was late returning from work and by the time I got the kids to bed it was really late. My wife is out of town tonight so I am holding down the fort. I am thinking to much about the steps instead of just doing it. It's in my head. Did I mention that I am as stuborn as a mule? It's a hugh fault. Did I mention that I am a control freak? The main reasons why I haven't done this yet are probably:

 

I am stubborn.

 

I am trying to control it in some stupid way??

 

I am pretty clueless. Example I have been trying to figure out what LRG is?? I am assuming that is my wifes nickname on the forum?

 

I must die to this garbage. My wife has asked me to fix this financial mess I caused and that's what I am going to continue with the rest of tonight. I thought this was something I could do in one day. Again I was wrong. My wife ask me to get this done a month ago but I kept making excuses why I couldn't. Another example of what not to do.

 

I am making a concious decision from this point on to do what my wife ask immediately and show her that I do love her. It's time to stop being concerned about me. It's time to stop selfishness. It's the source of great pain to my wife.

 

 

Thank you and I am not going to quit.

 

WHO IS POSTING??? You are on your wife's name

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I am on my wife's computer and some how she was logged in with the line not connected!! I caught it after I posted and logged off and logged back in as me. I should have known that I had to log in. So know you might get the idea that I am clueless!!!

 

Blockhead

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Sorry about the confusion.

 

That's okay -- just wanted to make sure you began posting on your signature --

 

Hope you got to listen to the conference calls last night -- absolutely dealt with guys who are not "doing" and trying to have things their own way.

 

 

20/20/20/20 today -- your wife needs them!

 

 

to get on the call -- *6 to mute *6 to unmute

 

 

June of

Edited by Ward & June
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I am listening to Heather and Kathy rip this guy to shreds on the call tonight. I was going to get on when I get a chance, but now I don't know!!!

 

If we are on a call "ripping a guy to shreds," it's generally because he is refusing to do what he agreed to do in a previous conversation, on the forum, or at the intensive. We don't do it just for fun (believe it or not! :P ). The man you heard being "ripped to shreds" has been involved in this ministry for years. He has been extremely abusive to his wife, and he has made tons of promises that he has not kept. Would you rather we hold his hand and coddle him along? Trust me, that's been tried and it hasn't worked. Sometimes we have to get tough with a man.

 

We don't tear apart the men who are honestly trying to understand, who are sincerely making efforts toward making this work, who ask questions and are teachable. I hope that's you.

 

The bottom line is that we don't intentionally put the fear of . . . whatever . . . unless a guy really needs it. So don't be afraid to get on the calls - and if you are, do it anyway. ;)

 

I am thinking to much about the steps instead of just doing it. It's in my head.

 

Classic passive guy. You have GOT to get over that. It's really not the thought that counts. It's kind of like sitting there learning brain surgery out of a book - you might learn everything you need to know, but if you don't ever perform an operation, it doesn't do anyone any good.

 

There's nothing I can say about the stubbornness except get over it. You can stay stubborn and lose your wife, or you can let go of it an have a happy marriage. Take your pick.

 

And yes, LRG is an abbreviation of your wife's username here. :)

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I'm copying this here just so you can find it easily - it's in the book your wife just got. What I'd like you to do is read through this list and find which types of abuse apply to you (hint - there will be more than one). Then I'd like you to ask your wife which ones she feels apply.

 

The only rule for this exercise is that your wife is right. If she feels that you have done a certain thing, then you have. You are not allowed to argue or defend. The reason I'm asking you to do this is so you can get a glimpse into her world. What did she feel like, living with YOU for 20 years?

 

“There are 20 areas of abuse and only one of them is physical.”

ABUSE WHEEL (per Paul Hegstrom - Angry Men & The Woman Who Love Them)

ONLY TO BE USED TO DESCRIBE THE HUSBAND:

[read the book to find out why this is focused on the husband as abuser rather than the wife]

 

“Every relationship has its ups and down, and no marriage is completely free of conflict. But how do we know when normal conflict has crossed the line into dysfunction?… Typically, an abusive partner will attempt significant control by exercising one or more of the following behaviors.”

(JUST being guilty of ONE part in a category below qualifies it as an abuse, and therefore the husband, an abuser. Period. -- Side note: many abusers are guilty of about six categories, some fewer, some many more)

 

Pgs 22-39

1. Physical: exhibited by beating, biting, choking, grabbing, hitting, kicking, pinching, pulling hair, punching, pushing, restraining, scratching, shaking, shoving, slapping, excessive tickling, twisting arms, using weapons, spanking, smothering, tripping

 

2. Male Privilege: Treats victim like a servant, makes all of the decisions, acts like “Master of the Castle”

 

3. Knowledge Abuse: get therapy, goes to seminary, uses self-help books then comes back and abuses with the knowledge he has but doesn’t take responsibility for personal behaviors

 

4. Sexual Abuse: demands unwanted or bizarre sexual acts; physical attacks to sexual parts of the body; treats her as a sex object; interrupts sleep for sex; forces sex; exhibits extreme jealousy

 

5. Humiliation: hostile humor; publicly criticizes; degrades her appearance, her parenting skills, her housekeeping, cooking, etc; forces her to eat foods she doesn’t like

 

6. Responsibility Abuse: makes victim responsible for everything in life, ie bills, parenting, etc

 

7. Medical Abuse: hurts her and does not allow her to receive medical treatment, does not allow her to receive medical treatment for normal health issues.

 

8. Religious Abuse: uses Scripture and words like “submission” and “obey” to abuse; spiritual language

 

9. Using Children: uses the children to give messages; uses visitation rights to harass; uses child support as leverage

 

10. Isolation: controls what is done, who is seen, who is talked to, limits or listens in on phone calls; sabotages car; restricts outside interests; insists on moving frequently; requires her to stay in the house; restricts access to the mail; deprives her of friends

 

11. Power: denies basic rights; uses the law to enforce his power; deprives her of a private or personal life; mandates duties; controls everything; ie, the amount of bath water she uses

 

12. Stalking: spies on her, follows her to activities, ie store, church, work, etc Displays extreme distrust and jealousy

 

13. Emotional Abuse: puts her down; calls her names, plays mind games; commits mental coercion; exhibits extreme controlling behaviors; withholds affection; causes her to lose her identity

 

14. Threats: threatens to end the relationship; threatens to emotionally or physically harm her; threatens her life; threatens to take the children, commit suicide, report her to authorities; forces her to break the law

 

15. Economic Abuse: puts restriction on her employment; makes her ask for money; gives her an allowance and takes the money she earns; requires her to account for every penny she spends

 

16. Financial Abuse: ruins her credit; puts cars, house, recreational equipment, and/or property in his name; spends her money, uses her credit or savings to make her dependent on him

 

17. Intimidation; uses looks, actions, gestures, and voice to cause fear; argues continuously; demands that victim says what he wants to hear

 

18. Property Violence: punches walls, destroys property, breaks down doors, pounds tables, abuses pets, etc

 

19. Verbal Abuse: curses, accuses, name-calls, uses past to control and manipulate, commits mental blackmail, makes unreasonable demands

 

20. Silence: uses silence as a weapon; does not communicate; does not express emotion (much explanation of the “Silent Knight” is given in “Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them“ because this is such a hurtful yet ignored abuse)

 

21. Jealousy: uses jealousy as a sign of love, controls what wife does, who they see, or who they talk to; controls when/where their wife goes, refuses to let wife participate in activities outside the house, drops in “just to watch,” isolates wife from friends and family, is possessive of partner in every area of life

 

The quickest way to becoming a good husband is to understand your wife's pain. If you insist on believing that you're not that bad, that you've done a few things wrong but you're basically a good guy, that she should be grateful for the things you've done right, then this is going to take longer.

 

And it doesn't matter if you did these things intentionally or not. If you accidentally slam my finger in your car door, the fact that you didn't mean it doesn't make it hurt any less.

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Looney is right...

and for more indepth AND to listen to Joel & Kathy go through this "list" please go to the PLEASE READ THIS SECTION FIRST to the abuse/power/control and click on the phone call plus, take the "questionaire" posted as well...

 

Admitting where you ARE is vital to getting going in the right direction

 

 

 

 

my .02

June of

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Looney and June,

 

First I want to say I started listening to the call Wed. night late and caught the tail end of the guy with the attitude. I will agree that I have never heard any guy getting ripped that didn't deserve it. The host and helpers give it their all and I appreciate it. You may or may not realize how many lives you have saved.

 

I don't realize the true hurt I have caused LRG. You are right that I think of myself as a good guy with a few faults. I am starting to realize that I have been a very abusive husband to my wife and children and it breaks my heart and I pray it's not to late to reverse the damage. This list is eye popping. I think with me it has all been about control.

 

And yes I think I think too much!!

 

Thanks,

 

Blockhead

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I KNOW you think too much! :rolleyes:

 

HD wrote this to another passive guy here . . . it might help you.

 

One thing that's important to realize here is that you and your wife are intricately linked together, in ways that us guys just don't even begin to understand - that's what the Bible calls "One-Flesh" - see Genesis 3:24. As passive guys, we tend to think about a situation prior to reacting to it - which is NOT a bad thing in a lot of circumstances - weighing out options and alternatives, etc. Unfortunately, to a wounded wife, this "delay" speaks unwillingness, lack of desire to be with her, resentment, and a multitude of other negative emotions.

 

That's because a wife wants to know that her husband LOVES her, unconditionally, and will do anything to bring life, joy, blessing, peace, happiness to her - as passive guys, we aren't impulsive and we tend to try to think through all possible outcomes of a situation before we act or even answer. THAT is the definition of "being in your head" - too much time spent dwelling on the negative consequences of any given situation (face it - we aren't spending all of that time thinking through the positive benefits, but rather every reason why this isn't a good idea, or what we would rather do, etc.) A wife SENSES those thought patterns and that negativity, and knows that we aren't excited about whatever she just suggested or whatever it is that we are thinking about. And, a wife will AUTOMATICALLY assume that we are thinking negatively about HER - and that's when you become "DEAD MAN WALKING".

 

Your actions cause her responses - that's how God designed it to work. That will, eventually, make you realize that you can effect your wife for GOOD, but, right now, you are using it to bring her pain and hurt, simple because you don't understand it. That's why you have to TRUST the people that have walked through this already - Joel and Kathy, Ward and June, etc. - because they have LEARNED the other way through diligence, practice, and trust.

 

I won't blow smoke up your skirt and tell you that it's easy, or that going this once or twice will make a difference - it will take time for you to learn a new way to relate to your wife, and it will take her time to figure out that you are changing. Be patient with that time, and learn something every time you make a mistake - eventually, it will all come back to you, seven-fold or more, because you are being faithful, trustworthy, dedicated, and you are learning to love someone else. God will DEFINITELY bless a man with a heart like that...

 

HerDensity

 

You also need to get very specific here so we can help you. We know you have been a very abusive husband - coulda told you that before you posted your first word - but HOW have you been abusive? Which numbers in that list are you guilty of? Be honest - making general statements is not gonna get you where you need to go. You have to face it and own it, and the quickest way to deal with your pride (yes, that's a problem for you too) is to admit it publicly. It will also be interesting to find out if you see yourself the way she sees you. So c'mon, 'fess up.

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abuse/power/control list at the PLEASE READ THIS SECTION FIRST

on the forum

 

 

go through the questionaire, listen to the call of Joel and another man who refused to admit abuse

 

this should help you get yourself IN GEAR -- it only works if you are being honest AND if you accept the words from your wife -- she speaks truth -- she KNOWS how she's been hurt - very specifically

 

 

June of

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June and Looney,

 

Alright here it goes. I am guilty of the following abuses listed above:

 

Numbers: 5,6,10,11,13,14,16,17,18,19,20 and 21 when we were dating.

 

Why couldn't I see this before ?

 

Blockhead

Blockhead, you are admitting that you are guilty of being an abuser in the following categories:

 

5. Humiliation: hostile humor; publicly criticizes; degrades her appearance, her parenting skills, her housekeeping, cooking, etc; forces her to eat foods she doesn’t like

 

6. Responsibility Abuse: makes victim responsible for everything in life, ie bills, parenting, etc

 

10. Isolation: controls what is done, who is seen, who is talked to, limits or listens in on phone calls; sabotages car; restricts outside interests; insists on moving frequently; requires her to stay in the house; restricts access to the mail; deprives her of friends

 

11. Power: denies basic rights; uses the law to enforce his power; deprives her of a private or personal life; mandates duties; controls everything; ie, the amount of bath water she uses

 

13. Emotional Abuse: puts her down; calls her names, plays mind games; commits mental coercion; exhibits extreme controlling behaviors; withholds affection; causes her to lose her identity

 

14. Threats: threatens to end the relationship; threatens to emotionally or physically harm her; threatens her life; threatens to take the children, commit suicide, report her to authorities; forces her to break the law

 

16. Financial Abuse: ruins her credit; puts cars, house, recreational equipment, and/or property in his name; spends her money, uses her credit or savings to make her dependent on him

 

17. Intimidation; uses looks, actions, gestures, and voice to cause fear; argues continuously; demands that victim says what he wants to hear

 

18. Property Violence: punches walls, destroys property, breaks down doors, pounds tables, abuses pets, etc

 

19. Verbal Abuse: curses, accuses, name-calls, uses past to control and manipulate, commits mental blackmail, makes unreasonable demands

 

20. Silence: uses silence as a weapon; does not communicate; does not express emotion (much explanation of the “Silent Knight” is given in “Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them“ because this is such a hurtful yet ignored abuse)

 

During Dating

21. Jealousy: uses jealousy as a sign of love, controls what wife does, who they see, or who they talk to; controls when/where their wife goes, refuses to let wife participate in activities outside the house, drops in “just to watch,” isolates wife from friends and family, is possessive of partner in every area of life

 

*********

SO, it is now time to bring healing to your wife whom you have sorely abused -- being PRO-active in cherishing and honoring her, listening and validating her feelings, NEVER NEVER NEVER arguing, defending, explaining or interrupting her, laying down your life for her by putting her FIRST (being willing to lay down your life will not 'cut it'), apologizing as often as SHE NEEDS you to do, with FULL REPENTANCE.

 

If you are humble and teachable, you can be on your way to an OHM by becoming CHRISTLIKE and treating one of the daughters of God, your bride, as a Christian husband should.

 

prayerfully,

June of

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Good. I'm sure that wasn't easy for you to admit.

 

Now you want to start working up an apology letter. Come up with as many specific examples of how you have hurt her (your list of abuses should help jog your memory) and apologize. Include something that indicates an understanding of how it made her feel. For example, don't just say, "I'm sorry for ignoring you." Say, "I'm sorry I ignored you at Joe's party. I talked to everyone but you. You must have felt like I didn't care about you at all." Get the idea?

 

Then - and this is important - post your letter here before you give it to her. Most men inadvertently make their first apology letter all about them, simply because they don't know any better. We can help you tweak it into something that will actually be healing for your wife. I've suggested that she stay off your thread for now, so it's unlikely that she'll see it until you give it to her.

 

I know it seems like I'm dumping a lot of stuff for you to do on your plate right now, but you don't have much time to turn this around. Your wife's at the end of her rope. Besides, you're good at tasking, right? ;)

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Looney,

 

 

I will write an apology letter but I think it's too late for that now. I am a little slow but she told me today that she hates me, she hates her life and she really doesn't care anymore. My apologies and words mean nothing and she doesn't want to here them. I can't imagine life without her and my two kids. But that's were we are. I don't have a clue what I can do to turn this around but I will start with the apology letter.

 

I know we are in this position because of my abuse of my wife. I know it is all my fault. My stupid pride comes in and ruins everything. I am at a place I don't recognize. Complete hoplessness and confusion.

 

 

Blockhead

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I don't have a clue what I can do to turn this around

 

Really? :blink:

 

How 'bout that list of promises you signed at the intensive? Dig it up and start doing it. Where are you with the finances? Didn't you tell her you'd have that done a week ago? Where are you with the 20/20/20/20? It looks like you're making a rather pitiful effort there - I can't say you're not doing anything, but you really need to go overboard to show her that you're committed to her, and 2 hugs and 2 kisses in an hour and a half does not qualify as overboard. How 'bout a real LOVER apology?

 

You already have all of the information you need - it's in the books and the intensive DVDs and here on the forum. You don't need to learn anything else. You just need to start doing it. She's tired of waiting.

 

And yes, you need to write the apology letter whether she receives it or not. Her response is not the point. The point is that you finally take ownership of what you've done and begin to feel her pain.

 

It's time to fish or cut bait, my friend - get busy, or be honest and tell her you're not going to do this. Your choice.

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your delays are hurting your wife --- what is up with this????

 

it is sad to know you won't even smile at your bride or do 5/5/5/5

 

WHY?

 

You cannot bring healing to your bride if you won't take these steps --

 

every day all day focusing on "what can I do to bless my bride"

 

 

Blessings,

June of

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