Jump to content
God Save My Marriage

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 1.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

This bears repeating:

 

I am of the firm belief that you WILL NOT "get this" until you learn how not to put everything that you do into a self-focused frame of reference - you HAVE to think about what you do, but ONLY in reference to how your wife feels.

 

That's what I wanted you to do when I asked you to reword your post earlier. You didn't do it. Every flippin' thing is still about you.

 

Tell me something, Phil . . . what's it gonna take? What is gonna cause you enough pain to change this? Divorce papers? Fine . . . I'll tell LRG to file tomorrow. Being totally out of your family's life . . . no communication, no visits, not even passing them in the grocery store? OK, we can do that. Financial ruin? Well, we can't do that (unless you'd like to start sending me some very large checks every month ;) ), but God can. I'm praying that He will do whatever He has to do to you to make you want to change, so you might want to watch out.

 

As I said earlier, I do still believe you're going to do this. The question is, when? After LRG has divorced you, taken most of your income in support, and severely restricted your time with your kids? Ask Timothy Paul how that's working for him. Or before, when you can still have a happy marriage? Talk to HD about that - I think he'll tell you that he's glad he chose to do this before Eeyore was totally done.

Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said earlier, I do still believe you're going to do this. The question is, when? After LRG has divorced you, taken most of your income in support, and severely restricted your time with your kids? Ask Timothy Paul how that's working for him. Or before, when you can still have a happy marriage? Talk to HD about that - I think he'll tell you that he's glad he chose to do this before Eeyore was totally done.

 

Yup - no arguments. I was LUCKY that I did not end up in the shoes of many of the husbands in this ministry that weren't as bad to their wife as I was to mine. I got close, WAY TOO CLOSE WAY TOO MANY TIMES, and today I am crushed when I think about how much I put Eeyore through all because I wasn't willing to drop my PRIDE and my PAIN and put my eyes on her and her heart.

 

I am trying to make you realize that you still have a chance to heal your wife's heart - but, it's going to take some changes to what you have been doing and how you have been thinking. EVERY TIME you interact with your wife, you need to think about HER, and not you - that's the idea behind "not defending and not arguing". You might be like me and be able to stop arguing for a time, but you still aren't making the heart change to PUT HER FIRST. If you THINK about how you are impacted by something IMMEDIATELY, then you aren't getting it. If you are viewing the encouragements of your wife and this ministry as ANYTHING other than a chance to grow and to change, then you aren't in this for HER. Not truly - you might SAY that you are with your words, but your actions speak differently.

 

Stephen/HD

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here it is. I have been resentful toward you because I have been feeling pressure from customers throwing all the trips my competitor is taking them on garbage in my face. On the surface I pretend it doesn't matter but inside I have been allowing it to rip me up. This I say is the truth as to my heart, which is bad. I have been worried that I'm loosing business. You said that yesterday and it is true. I know the what but I am not sure yet how to deal with it. I am working on it. I am thinking about you.

 

BH

Link to post
Share on other sites

So, let me see I can re-word this a bit, to make sure that we all understand what you are saying to LRG:

"LRG, because I have had to change how I used to do business and take my clients on hunting trips (that I enjoyed and that got me away from the house) and instead have to remain at home and work on our marriage, I have been letting that eat at me and I have allowed resentment towards you to grow in my heart and in my mind. My customers rub my nose in the fact that I am staying home with the wife and kids instead of taking them hunting and having fun with them, and if they start to leave and go to my competitors, I will be able to blame you and the ministry."

 

LRG - please don't let me put words into your mouth - if I am off-base with how this might feel to you, please let me know...

 

Stephen/HD

Link to post
Share on other sites

Read up on LRG's thread (hope you have, too), and something jumped out at me, from my journey...

 

For the longest time, I was convinced that I was "a good guy that just keeps making mistakes", and that held me back from TRULY changing. Until I admitted this fact, way down all the way in my gut and the depths of my heart, I COULD NOT honestly hold myself accountable for my actions - there was always "an out" for me to take that let me off the hook. And, my wife continued to bear the brunt of my "mistakes" and my internal thinking that I was such a "good guy".

 

The fact is that we aren't just "good guys" that need to change a couple of things - we are sinful, prideful, egotistical jerks that will do anything to protect ourselves and that would also hurt anyone who challenges our internal assertions of who we are. I had to accept the truth and then let Christ be my identity - He is the "good guy" that I need to be, and He will take me to that place, as I let Him in more and more and as He works through me to heal my wife's heart. That's the message of this ministry, not anything else, and not anything more complicated. It's not easy, but that's the ticket, if you want to ride...

 

Stephen/HD

Link to post
Share on other sites
I have been resentful toward you because I have been feeling pressure from customers throwing all the trips my competitor is taking them on garbage in my face. On the surface I pretend it doesn't matter but inside I have been allowing it to rip me up. This I say is the truth as to my heart, which is bad. I have been worried that I'm loosing business. You said that yesterday and it is true. I know the what but I am not sure yet how to deal with it. I am working on it. I am thinking about you.

 

 

"LRG, because I have had to change how I used to do business and take my clients on hunting trips (that I enjoyed and that got me away from the house) and instead have to remain at home and work on our marriage, I have been letting that eat at me and I have allowed resentment towards you to grow in my heart and in my mind. My customers rub my nose in the fact that I am staying home with the wife and kids instead of taking them hunting and having fun with them, and if they start to leave and go to my competitors, I will be able to blame you and the ministry."

 

 

I repeated those two posts because I want the difference to be glaringly obvious to you. This is the clearest example I can find of what you're missing. You have been to five intensives, and you still refuse to put LRG first in your thoughts.

 

BH, Stephen was you! That's why I asked you to read his thread so long ago . . . because he used to think and act just like you do, and he knows how to get past the things that you are letting get in your way. He's spelling this out in words of one syllable. There is no way you don't understand what he's telling you. Now take it and DO something with it! Change your thinking, and change your behavior.

Link to post
Share on other sites

HD, Looney and LRG,

 

I read HD's post above and my first reaction was of course no that's not it but I kept reading and I reread it and the truth is as follows:

 

I have been worried about loosing business and worried about loosing my family. I choose my family and then resent that I can't have both. I want my cake and eat it to.

 

And I like going on the trips as well. This is the part of HD's post I initially had the problem with but I have to say it's true. I enjoyed going for the very reasons HD cited above.

 

LRG and the kids are everything to me and I am ready to let the toys go.

 

BH

Link to post
Share on other sites

BH,

 

Let's cut through all the B.S. and key words and phrases you have been spewing for well over two years. There is one and ONLY one reason all of this continues to happen. It is because you have yet to go ALL in. As a matter of fact, you aren't even close. It's time to get real. Either you love your wife and you are willing to go all in or you don't love her and you just stay right where YOU want to be.

 

You are very lucking in the fact your wife understands grace and hasn't thrown you to the curb. You should view this grace as the greatest gift you have ever received from another human being not as a licence to continue to do exactly as you please in a covert and underhanded manner. It's rather sicking if you want to know the truth.

 

I have helped hundreds of men in the last five years. I have met all different kinds. There is only one kind that makes this work and truly loves his wife with understanding and loves her the way Christ loves the church. He is the kind of man that stops being chicken spit and pushes ALL his chips in. The only way to win it all is to risk it all.

 

Risking it all for another is what true love is. If you truly love your wife, you will push all in. No more excuses and no more B.S. lines aloud here. Stop blaming everyone and everything for your choices. We live and die by our choices. Aren't you tired of watching your wife die a little more each time because of your choices? I guarantee you I know what her answer would be.

 

It is time to man up. Time to make THE choice. Either you love your wife the way Christ loves the church or you do it your way. Either push all in or stop trying to convence everyone here you love your wife. I know what ALL in looks like. I have seen it at work and it is a beautiful thing.

 

This is what Her density wrote to you:

 

BH - you're getting a lot of attention and self-focus on what you are doing wrong, and I don't think that's a good thing. I know that for me, it was counter-productive to be constantly talking about what I did wrong or how I messed up - until I started to post more about what my actions were doing TO my wife, then it was all about me. I spent more time feeling sorry for myself and how I wasn't getting this and how lousy of a husband I was, blah, blah, blah, than I spent thinking about what I was putting my poor wife through - until I was able to "flip that bit" in my brain, then my "recovery" was more about me. I am of the firm belief that you WILL NOT "get this" until you learn how not to put everything that you do into a self-focused frame of reference - you HAVE to think about what you do, but ONLY in reference to how your wife feels. Until you get that, you are changing for YOU and not for HER; God wants your heart so that you are His for her.

 

HD/Stephen

 

Do you know why he was able to see this and point it out to you? Because when he was backed into the last corner he pushed ALL in and the rest is history. Every man, whose wife is willing to try, that pushes ALL in wins their wife's heart back.

 

Stop writing about how you see things. Start writing about LRG and her feelings and what you are doing to lay your life down for her. Everyone here is sick of reading the B.S. If you want our help from this point on, listen to what is being told and implement it. That means LISTEN TO YOUR WIFE and HER HEART. Then listen to the helpers. Then you do what has been suggested. NOTHING else.

 

God Bless

David

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think my post above proves your point Dave. I wouldn't be worried or resentful with LRG if I were all in. I thought I was all in until the first week of December when early pay began in my area. That's when I through my wife under the bus and I was focused on me and my work. I had no earthly idea this was happening and I wasn't listening to my bride. So I was not all in at all. I'm ready and willing and in all the way. I'm on my knees.

 

BH

Link to post
Share on other sites

::xx it, BH!!! Are you listening to anything we're saying here?

 

STOP TALKING ABOUT YOURSELF!!!!!!!

 

We do not give a rodent's posterior why you think you're doing what you're doing. Stop the Paralysis by Analysis and start writing some posts that will give us all some clue that we're not wasting our time with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

BH,

 

Can you do a couple of things for me, please:

- Re-write your last post in a "non-BH" view. I want you to think less about what you were thinking and less about why you went where you went in your head, and more about what you did to your wife's heart and how that made her feel.

 

- Change your signature here on the forums and document the dates of the Intensives that you have been to, whether you went with LRG or solo, and what "topic" or "concept" jumped out at you in each Intensive.

 

NOTE: To change your signature, go up to the top of the page and click on the arrow beside your forum name, and choose My Settings, then go to "Signature" to edit it.

 

You really need to work on holding off on posting or saying the first things that come into your mind, because those are the selfish reactions of the flesh - I had to learn not to just spout off at the mouth, too, and I know that it's not easy. That's the point of "not arguing and not defending", because those are the fleshly reactions of an arrested man; the goal, however, is to change our thinking so that not only is it automatic for us not to argue or defend, but also that we stop thinking about ourselves first and instead focus on our wife and how our actions/words have affected them. At this point, that is something that you just haven't grasped yet - in my recovery, I was able to "make progress" toward healing my marriage, but, in all honesty, it was "surface level" stuff until I stopped giving into the incessant selfish need to "make myself heard". Until your WIFE becomes more important to you than YOU are to you, you will continue to struggle with becoming the man that God can make you.

 

Stephen/HD

Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife has been humiliated, made to feel worthless, unloved, lonely, bitter, angry and crazy because of my selfish actions. She has been lied to by me and her spirit has been painfully crushed.

 

I also need to tell you that I have avoided dealing with her pain because I am a coward. I have left my wife badly wounded and on her own.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok HD,

 

I will give it a shot. When I argue and defend while LRG is trying to share her heart i think it first takes away her safe place and confirms why she doesn't trust me. I show her that I care more about me than her and her feelings don't count. She probably sees my arrogance and pride which adds more fuel to the fire and leaves her feeling hopeless. Then the anger starts followed by depression, fear and total despair. Piled on top of this is 23 years of garbage so she now is dealing with a mountain of garbage while her clueless husband is still fixed on defending himself on the rock that got it all started. She then becomes more frustrated and hates him for it. All of this because her stupid, selfish, arrogant, prideful moron of a husband cares more about defending himself than defending her.

 

Yes I am seeing clearly and looking at it from her view and kicking myself in the can in the process. Only an immature fool would do something like that to his wife. I want to stop it now.

 

Don't give up on me, I'm fighting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

. All of this because her stupid, selfish, arrogant, prideful moron of a husband cares more about defending himself than defending her.

 

Don't give up on me, I'm fighting.

 

I have not been around this ministry as long as most of you and I really feel mostly unqualified to 'speak' here but I am just going to take a risk and jump in an say what I think- :)

 

#1. The more time you spend describing yourself, the less room you have for her. STOP IT! There is a giant world of difference between WHO you are and WHAT you do... YOU are a son of the LIVING GOD.. with (I Hope!) the LIVE JESUS living in you, Who has overcome the law of sin and death... YOU are not as you described above... but you are doing all of those things because instead of focusing on God and your wife you are focusing on you...

 

#2. the more you beat up on yourself, the more repulsive you become.. to yourself and to your wife. .. because that is the picture and the gift that you are presenting to your wife... One of my sons used to do this from the time of his youngest childhood. It was frightening and disgusting.. He used to try and scratch himself and wail and cry about how horrible he was and what a miserable failure he was... whenever I caught him doing something junky and tried to correct him... he lept into despair instead of just standing up and saying: "OK, I'll take care of it." or "I'm sorry" or anything like that. Today he is thirty eight years old and he is finally beginning to learn that it really is that simple. Your negative proclamations don't fix the problem. But you keep pulling out the same worn out tool out of your tool belt to fix a problem that needs a different kind of tool.

 

#3. .The problem seems to be that you are too busy navel gazing at how bad your problems are.. and trying to work up feelings for what you think she is going through... The more you just stand up and ackowledge the times when you thoughtlessly or accidentlly or even on purpose hurt her.. and then set about to change it.. without wasting time looking at the 'poop in the toilet' (sorry! but that just came to me..) the more your empathy for her will naturally grow...

 

#4. I don't think anyone around here would consider giving up on you unless it became very clear that you were giving up on you... :)

 

#5. I apologize if this seems rude or crude or spoken out of turn...

Link to post
Share on other sites

So what I hear you saying is that I an spending a lot of energy wasted on beating myself up and wallering in it and staying stuck when I could just use that energy to bless my wife. That's exactly what I am going to do and I will post the results here for all to see. I will try to post more than a "narrative" and keep it real.

Link to post
Share on other sites

LRG is the most wonderful and beautiful lady in the world. She is full of intelligence, integrity, beauty and common sense. She can talk to anyone about anything. She gets her feelings hurt easily and I know this and I should be the last one she would expect to hurt her feelings. She needs a good friend and that should be me but I don't think she feels that way. LRG is tired of the roller coaster ride on the way to an OHM. The ride is making her sick. I know what I'm supposed to do but that's not the same as doing it. I put pressure on myself to do this and LRG has a lot more pressure on her for risking getting hurt yet again. Let's see what all in looks like?

Link to post
Share on other sites

BH - one of the things that was most important to me changing my view of myself and becoming more outward focused was to realize that my wife CHOSE me for WHO I AM and for WHO I CAN BE. Do I think that my wife has great taste? Do I think that my wife is intelligent and has common sense? Yes, to both. Does it insult my wife when I "cut down" her choice in men? Absolutely. Does she find it attractive when I ridicule the man that she chose to spend her life with? Uh, NO.

 

Getting our of our own heads means that we view life from someone else's perspective - to you, it makes complete logical sense to beat on yourself for "messing up" and for being "an idiot"; your wife, on the other hand, sees that as an insult to her choice in a husband and in a father to her children. God also sees that as an insult - He chose you, paid the ultimate price for you, and yet you feel that it is your right to abuse His valued son's prized heir (you)?

 

Self-abuse is mental and it is emotional, and it places us in a place of not being able to hear those that love us, and not being able to hear God's whisper in our ear. It is giving in to the enemy and it is a complete and total rejection of all of the love that our wife's have for us, as people. And, truth being Truth, it is merely a ploy for us to beg for someone to come rescue us - Husband: "look at me, I am worthless and lousy!" Wife: "No, dear, you are a great husband and a great person, I love you." Husband: "Ahhh." Cycle repeats, and nothing is ever learned or changed...

 

Becoming the husband that God wants you to be and that LRG needs means breaking that cycle of feeling sorry for yourself and setting yourself up for rescue - you WILL NOT GROW UP when you act this way, you will be stuck here forever.

 

Trust me when I say that the boost to self that you get from "being rescued by your wife" PALES in comparison to growing up and standing in the identity of Christ - no comparison, and it WILL end the cycle of creating your own crisis and expecting your wife to rescue you...

 

HD/Stephen

Link to post
Share on other sites

HD,

 

I don't think I understand. I am trying to show what I've done to hurt LRG and how I think it made her feel. I don't know how to say it without including me since I'm the one that did it. When I start feeling her hurt and pain while writing about it I get mad at me for doing it to her. That's what I'm supposed to quit doing is what I think I understand you are telling me. Am I wrong about that?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...