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To have come this far . . . really?

 

I'm asking this in all honesty - please list the real changes . . . heart changes, not surface, look good changes . . . you feel you've made. What have you CONSISTENTLY stopped doing, or started doing, since you've joined this ministry? Which of the behaviors that hurt LRG are now gone - you don't struggle not to do them, you rarely have to apologize for them, they just don't happen - and you are genuinely GLAD they don't happen? Please list them, because I must have missed it, and I want to give credit where credit is due.

 

My prayer for you is that you will see and face the truth, because then we might get somewhere.

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Looney,

 

1. I am home by 5pm or close to it. That was never the case before.

2. I think of LRG all day every day. That was never true.

3. I buy her gifts if not every week every two weeks.

4. HSKC. I did this consistantly for the last 6 months.

5. I pray. I listen to my audio bible every day.

6. I listen to LRG about how to raise our children and I do what she ask.

7. No more violent anger. That's new.

8. I initiated things I could do to help her around the house. That's new!

9. I initiated dates. That's big time new.

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Oh, and I initiated LM and it was always met with no. That was fine because she owed me a bunch of rejections.

 

I stopped out of town trips that were not neccesary including hunting trips

 

I stopped night time meetings with customers.

 

I sold the camper and that was a very good thing.

 

I sold two shotguns at LRG's request which showed how serious I was about stopping the selfishness.

 

I told some friends from Church face to face with LRG present what I had done to LRG for 20 years and I humiliated myself in front of them.

 

I took and passed a lie detector test. Humiliating for her and me.

 

I humbled myself greatly.

 

I cut way back on the cursing.

 

I also told her mom and dad everything I had done to her. More humility.

 

I told a close friend of mine everything I had done. More humiliation.

 

 

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If you were truly working on your marriage, instead of yourself, all of the times you said "humiliated or humiliation" would have been "HUMBLED". You would have HUMBLED yourself and put your wife first. This makes me very sad...

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giacché cercate la prova che Cristo parla in me: Cristo che verso voi non è debole, ma è potente in voi. Poiché egli fu crocifisso per la sua debolezza; ma vive per la potenza di Dio; e anche noi siam deboli in lui, ma vivremo con lui per la potenza di Dio, nel nostro procedere verso di voi. Esaminate voi stessi per vedere se siete nella fede; provate voi stessi. Non riconoscete voi medesimi che Gesù Cristo è in voi? A meno che proprio siate riprovati.

(2Co 13:3-5)

 

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I will give you all the proof you want that Christ speaks through me. Christ is not weak in his dealings with you, but is mighty in power within you. His weak human body died on the Cross, but now he lives by the mighty power of God. We, too, are weak in our bodies, as he was, but now we live and are strong, as he is, and have all of God's power to use in dealing with you.

 

Check up on yourselves. Are you really Christians? Do you pass the test? Do you feel Christ's presence and power more and more within you? Or are you pretending to be a Christians when actually you aren't at all?

 

2 Corinthians 13:3-5

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That was fine because she owed me a bunch of rejections.

???? People who understand forgiveness don't talk like this.

 

.I stopped out of town trips that were not neccesary including hunting trips I can stop stealing from my friend, but then I have to go the extra mile and start generously giving to my friend.

 

I stopped night time meetings with customers. Ditto from the last answer...

 

I sold the camper and that was a very good thing. Based on what.. How did this connect to or heal your wife's heart?

 

I sold two shotguns at LRG's request which showed how serious I was about stopping the selfishness.

Stopping selfish behaviors is only one small baby step. .Babies can do what Mommy asks of them and then say: "Look at ME. I'm good. I did what you said!" when you begin to GROW UP.... Letting your heart be transformed.. being broken by God's love and never wanting to hurt your wife again, ever.... then.. well.. at that point you wouldn't even find it necessary to tell what you had done.. true love living inside you wouldn't let you....

 

I told some friends from Church face to face with LRG present what I had done to LRG for 20 years and I humiliated myself in front of them.

And whose idea was this??? And how did that make your wife feel? and what was the real purpose???

 

I took and passed a lie detector test. Humiliating for her and me. Really?????

 

I humbled myself greatly. :puke: Sorry, BH, but this is my reaction to a statement like this.. The point of anyone humbling them self is so they can connect with another person in love. When you are stuck on how much you humbled yourself,, well.. you haven't even begun to humble yourself...

 

I cut way back on the cursing. Are you looking at what YOU cut back on and how that made YOU feel like a better man- or are you understanding that the reason for not cursing is because it initiates DEATH into people's lives... The power of LIFE or DEATH is in the tongue... (proverbs)

 

I also told her mom and dad everything I had done to her. More humility. All you can see here is how much humility you exercised??? Come on... really??

 

I told a close friend of mine everything I had done. More humiliation. Is this about your humiliation? or about joining with someone who can help you become a better man? Where is it leading? To Jesus? to LOVE? or to more points racked up in your own mind so you have something to your credit that you can fall back on? Because you think that you have to assign some kind of accounting ledger over your life?? keep a balance sheet so others can't have the upper hand?

BH, you can't convince or persuade or fool anyone who has really and truly humbled them self.. really and truly gone to the Cross.. really and truly let Jesus transform them...

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Thanks for doing that, BH. Eeyore and 4evr have already pointed out what I hoped you will understand . . . in your mind and heart, you are still keeping score. You're keeping track of points for good behavior, and you're angry and resentful because LRG's and our tally doesn't line up with yours.

 

Almost everything you listed is a surface issue, and I specifically asked you NOT to list those. Although they are helpful, they are not the things that heal her heart. They are the things that make it tolerable for her to stay while you work at healing her heart, and they have a time limit. You've run that out, so they're not working anymore.

 

What HEART changes have you made?

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I have been struggling to figure out what to say to you for days - I still don't think that I have a clear decision on what I think that you need to hear. I still believe that you would rather feed on all of the negative crap that you create around you - either at home, within your family, or here on the forums - that you want to look at yourself and your actions for what they really are. Any effort that we try to put into this situation to try to crack through your denial seems so fruitless - you are SO convinced that you have done all that you could have to change and that you are being mistreated, misunderstood, and that your wife is SO wrong to treat you like this...

 

When I read your list of "things that I have changed, deep inside" it was so clear that you are sitting in a place of superiority and pride - just your use of the term "humiliation" in reference to the things that were probably VERY significant glimpses of hope to your wife is extremely disappointing. You don't seem to understand what the goal of all of this work is supposed to be - I do not think that you ever grew past the point of wanting to simply "do what I am told to do" to a place of REAL change, deep inside, with Christ's Spirit guiding you in Truth.

 

So many of the things that you mentioned as being "deep changes" are the same things that you are so RESENTFUL over - we spent dozens of minutes on phone calls and pages of your thread discussing your resentment issues, and here they still are! You are so convinced that you did not do anything that warrants your current situation - you believe that you are "in the right" in everything that you say to us, and I can only imagine how hard you are working to "un-do" the impressions that others in your life got from all of the "humiliating" work that you did over the past few years.

 

I know that I spent time struggling in my growth when I had some of the same mental "hangups" - I believed that I was a "good guy" and that my intentions and actions were "misunderstood"; I believed that I was "not listened to" and that if my wife and the helpers "just understood" what I was trying to say they would agree with me; and I believed that I had done "all that was asked and more", when I had barely even begun.

 

At some point, I hope that you can come back and start asking what to do to TRULY CHANGE with a humble heart, rather than a angry attitude about being HUMILIATED.

 

Stephen/HD

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Looney,

 

1. I am home by 5pm or close to it. That was never the case before.

2. I think of LRG all day every day. That was never true.

3. I buy her gifts if not every week every two weeks.

4. HSKC. I did this consistantly for the last 6 months.

5. I pray. I listen to my audio bible every day.

6. I listen to LRG about how to raise our children and I do what she ask.

7. No more violent anger. That's new.

8. I initiated things I could do to help her around the house. That's new!

9. I initiated dates. That's big time new.

 

These were good, positive things. Obviously, the second post brought the replies of correction. Figured I'd acknowledge the 9 positives. This is a day of great change for you, BH.. Change if you take the replies that you are getting to heart.

 

Read Eeyore's praise report on the topic, "The Donkey and the Delorean" in the "couples working together" section.

 

You and Steve and Melissa and Amanda are so much couples cut from the same cloth. If Steve got THROUGH his stuff, so can you.

 

Jeff and Heather were also cut from the same cloth, but Heather was Amanda and Melissa on steiroids. They have been living happily ever after for years.

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LRG said,

 

Now my eleven year old has told me that he thinks I am the reason Dad gets angry and if I would have left him alone and not done the counseling/intensives everything would have been fine. He also blames himself for his dad putting his head into the wall because he was being a smart mouthed kid.

 

Are you admitting to your sons that you have not treated them well and their mother well? This makes my heart break.

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Eeyore,

 

Yes I have. The only thing I can figure is they are very upset that their dad is gone and they are trying to pass blame where they can. I have told the boy's straight up that everything is my fault.My heart is breaking as well. I tell our boys how lucky they are to have a mother like LRG often. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar!!!!!

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Well, the kids seem to be getting a different story...

 

Again, this is not about your heart being broken. It is about you finally feeling the pain that your wife has felt for so long. I keep praying that you will somehow make a connection with it. Hmmm...

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Eeyore,

 

Our 11 year old has been texting me often. I sent him the following text:

 

"I love u to!!!!! I need for you and your brother to know that the problems between me and your mom is not your fault. It's not your mom's fault. It's my fault! I am so sorry I have let all you down. That is something that me and God will have to sort out. I love your mom more than life but love alone can't solve some problems. I will always be your dad and I am always here for you and your brother. Your mom is a great lady. We are truly blessed!!!"

Edited by BlessingHer
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HD,

 

I haven't done all I could have to change. I have done some changing but not as much that is possible if I had God in my life. I don't have God first in my life. That has been obvious to everybody but me for some time. I have had ME first for as long as I can remember. I have put LRG first for several months and apparantly resentment from me is what greeted her. I am a very selfish dude. That's all I can say. I can be upset about what has happened but it is my fault. LRG is not perfect but she hpis not the problem. It is me.

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Hate to tell you this Phil, but the only way your kids will get healed is by your actions. You can say anything you like, but they won't believe you and honestly, they really don't want to hear it.

 

My kids got to the point, where when I would say "it's my fault" they would roll their eyes and say "whatever". But as I continued to honor and put B first, and put B and their needs first (servant leader), over time they actually started to believe and I earned thier trust back.

 

Today, I have an incredible relationship with my kids. It took a few years but when it comes faith and trust, they know that can count on me. They know when I speak I speak truth to them. They know I love them and even when I say things they don't want to hear. It's from truth and love.

 

Both my kids walk the walk of a Christian and I am so proud if them. I know how difficult that is for a young adult.

 

It's only because they saw Christ through me, they know the power and freedom the Truth provides.

 

TP

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BH,

 

If you really want to see what true change looks like, you have two of the best examples possible writing to you. Instead of pouting and sulking, spend all of your new free time reading HD's and Tim's threads from beginning to end. When you are finished with that, read everything they have written. As you read these threads, you will see their transformation. It is glaringly obvious.

 

It is time to put in the neccessary work or accept your current state as the rest of your life. Playtime is over.

 

God Bless

David

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I love your mom more than life but love alone can't solve some problems.

 

This one just made me go grrrrrrrrrr . . .

 

You THINK you love LRG, but the love you have for her doesn't even come close to what God wants you to have for her. What you have is a love that makes YOU feel good, not a love that makes HER feel good. And until you find that, you will be stuck where you are.

 

. . .but love alone can't solve some problems. YES IT CAN! Love - His love - will solve every problem you have, but you'll never know that until you give up YOU in order to get what He has for you. And don't you dare even suggest that loving LRG the way she needs to be loved will not solve your marriage problems. I know it will, because I have seen it. Have you forgotten that Eeyore and HD are my family? I have watched HD learn to love her, and I have seen both of them change into what God has always wanted for them - an amazing couple who love Him, love each other, and spill that out onto everyone they come in contact with. They are not some special case . . . they are just like you and LRG, and what worked for them will work for you.

 

Stop lying to yourself, Phil. Stop pretending, and just come to the Cross. Everything you need is there. The "conversions" you've had in the past have been intellectual, and maybe emotional, but they have not been real. Until you change that, you won't change anything else.

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