She is lost What does that mean

[phowes1]

Last weekend was a tough one we basicly argued all weekend! See my 18 year old sister-in-law lives with us , and for the past 2 months her 24 year old B/Fhas been living here too. Now he works full time and can more than support himself. He basically just moved in without even asking. I have a problem with this but my wife doesn't seem to. Well when suzzie turn 18 (she has been living with us for three years) My wife and I talked and told her she could have her B/F stay 1 or 2 nights a week but the only rule was when My older daughters are here he cannot stay. Well last friday they were here and My wife gave him permission to stay the night. I lost it. The one thing I requested that didn't happen asnd that we had agreed on was thrown out the window. Here we are supporting this person already which I hate btu I am trying to deal with it bcause my wife seems to think it's ok. I see it as we have our own children to support why should we support a 24 year old who can support himself. Guess I jsut as clueless as every other man in the world.

 

 

Quick question. Could someone point in the direction of a book on what it means to be christlike? That is of course other than the Bible. I really need some help in knowing how to do this.

[HumblePie]

Hello phowes1,

 

I am the wife of humblepie, we are answering your post. We have put our thoughts together here and I am typing.

 

We are wondering why you as a christian man would allow sexual immorality in your home? GET THIS MAN OUT OF YOUR HOUSE! Do not allow another opportunity for sexual sin in your home. Give your sister in law a month or so to move on with her life and move out of your home. Hearing your wifes heart does not mean allow or agree with sin.

 

Being christ-like means standing on and acting on the Word of God, even if it divides the marriage. You will have to trust that your actions of true christ-likeness will move your wife toward the Lord herself.

 

If not then you are not equally yoked. If you continue to be a weak man concerning these things eventually your wife will hold these things against you. She will say that you as the man should have known what the right thing to do was and that you should have done it.

 

Look at Sarah and Abraham in the bible. Sarah was the one with the idea of Abraham having sexual relations with Hagar to produce a son. Abraham agreed. But, it came back to bite him later. Sarah said, " look what you have done, let God judge between you and me" God did not blame Sarah for being weak. It was Abrahams fault. He was to be the man of God.

 

You be the man of God.

 

(Wife speaking here) Women are weak. If your wife is a true christian then she in her heart should know that what is happening in your home is wrong. Do the right thing. Do it without fighting with your wife. Love your wife, be kind to her, be sensitive to her, speak with love and kindness, but be tough with this sin in your home.

 

How can you truly put your marriage first with this kind of stuff going on? You need to be fully engaged in your marriage. Your wife deep in her heart may secretly be despising you for your weakness. I am sorry to say but women are like that. I have been like that and I have christian friends who are like that. They despise their husbands moral and spiritual weakness's.

 

Eventually a true christian woman will look back on her marriage and say, wow, this is when my husband truly turned to God and made Jesus Lord of our home and marriage. She will proud of a true man of God.

[Kay]

There is this book called, "The Purpuse Driven" by Rick Warren (What on Earth am I here for)

 

You are asked to just read one chapter a day ! It is all about being Christlike and ties in with Kathy and Joel's teaching about being the Man that Christ wants you to be.

 

Anyone else read this book ?? Have any thoughts about it ??

[Melissa]

Ken Nairs book "Discovering the Mind of a Women"

[phowes1]

I have this one and have read it looking for more info more in depth.

[HumbledB4God]

Quick question. Could someone point in the direction of a book on what it means to be christlike? That is of course other than the Bible. I really need some help in knowing how to do this.

 

Aside from the issues that are here with respect to your marriage, I recommend "Disciplines of a Godly Man" by Kent Hughes. An OUTSTANDING book.

 

As for your wife, before you lose out 100%, you need to discuss going to a J&K intensive. You should also get their books if you don't have them already.

 

I do not portend to give J&K's advice for them, but I cannot imagine that they'd tell you to relent to allow your sister-in-law to fornicate in your family home, whether or not your daughters are present (have you been married before)? If your wife saved? How about your sister-in-law?

 

In Christ,

John

[phowes1]

Yes my wife is saved not my sister-in-law. J&K told me not to interfere with the situation and to just let my wife get sick of it on her own. Then she would do something about it. I dop have the books and they arre helpful. I jsut cannot condone this situation with my sister-in-law and her B/F I've never liked the guy to begin with and I feel like we are just totally being taken advantage of. I would think that my opinion of him living here should matter at least a little after all it is my house too. I know that doesn't sound crist like but at the same time even Jesus threw people out of the temple when they were taking advantage of others, saying this is my fathers house that isn't going to take place here.

[Rebecca]

J&K told me not to interfere with the situation and to just let my wife get sick of it on her own.

 

I would have to disagree with Joel and Kathy on this point. You as the man of your own home do not and should not allow fornication of any kind. Get that stupid bumb out of your home!

 

Don't allow fornication in your own home. If it is necessary for reasons unknown to others that you need to have your sister-in-law live with you that still does not warrant that she should be allowed to engage in sinful behavior in your home.

[HumbledB4God]

Yes my wife is saved not my sister-in-law. J&K told me not to interfere with the situation and to just let my wife get sick of it on her own. Then she would do something about it. I dop have the books and they arre helpful. I jsut cannot condone this situation with my sister-in-law and her B/F I've never liked the guy to begin with and I feel like we are just totally being taken advantage of. I would think that my opinion of him living here should matter at least a little after all it is my house too. I know that doesn't sound crist like but at the same time even Jesus threw people out of the temple when they were taking advantage of others, saying this is my fathers house that isn't going to take place here.

 

I would say that any objections you lodge need to be done gently. It also sounds as if the situation has degraded since J&K gave their initial advice. Your wife is caught in a trespass, that of condoning fornication in your home. If you wish to restore her, you need to do so gently and not stumble in doing it (Galatians 6:1).

 

Since your daughters are being corrupted my advice would be that you gently speak to your wife 1-on-1. You need to reaffirm your love her her, and that you would give yourself up for her at will. But you are not required to give up obeying the Lord. This issue is not about your desires. It's about living for Christ. I would recommend that you tell your wife that the boyfriend has to move out, and if the sister does not like it, she can go as well.

 

Now part of this situation is your sin ("My wife and I talked and told her she could have her B/F stay 1 or 2 nights a week but the only rule was when My older daughters are here he cannot stay.") So you must apologize to your wife in the first instance for your lack of integrity in this matter. You must also say that you (both) are responsible for all of the minor children in your home and cannot set the example that fornication is ever acceptable for a Christian. You then ask her to agree that the fornication stops immediately. When you have an agreement, obtained by respectful loving conduct to your wife, then you can approach the sister and her lover and spill.

 

As far as your wife's sister is concerned, if you want her to stay you sit her down and tell her that you were wrong for allowing this fornication in your home, and tell her that she cannot have any male friends spend the night, or even go alone with her into a bedroom, because you serve Jesus and you cannot have this in your home. If she does not like it, she is free to get a job and find her own place, or to go to the justice of the peace and get married that day (say that and you might scare her a little ).

 

She is 18. You and your wife own the house. You both profess the Lordship of Jesus. You both have the choice to choose whom your house will serve (Joshua 24:15). Can you see the Lord blessing you and your family while you openly permit fornication under your roof?

 

Doing this is not un-Christlike in my opinion, although I may be wrong. If you obtain your wife's agreement to proceed, you will bring your house more under the Lord's control. Remember that your wife's sister is taking advantage of you both in order to enjoy sinful sex under your roof. Impress that in love upon your wife. She will, if she still loves you (which appears to be the case), truly respect your standing up for her and your shared home, especially if you are firm and CALM!

 

NO MATTER WHAT DO NOT LOSE YOUR COOL! Let the Lord's peace be with you, and seek it in earnest prayer, with thanksgiving (Phil. 4:6-7) before venturing into this. But if you do so, and show your wife respect and deference and Christlike love to her, she should respond positively and agree with you to kick out the BF.

 

And, if the sister-in-law sees you behave in this Godly fashion, you may be a witness who leads her to consider Jesus!

 

In Christ,

John

[Rebecca]

HumbledBe4God,

 

That is such an excellent post! You put my answer to shame.

[phowes1]

this is an email that she sent to a mutual friend

 

"Haven't done the divorce thing yet, hell haven't even booted his [admin edit] yet... but one thing at a time. I keep thinking he's going to straighten out but that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon. He does really well for about a week and then bam right back to square one. At first I felt sorry for the dumb [admin edit] and he's the one that tried to go elsewhere for some action and now I am just getting [admin edit] off. But I can honestly say I am trying to be stupid just to prove to him and to be able to say I didn't just give up so it won't be my fault."

 

 

This was sent right after our date night which I thought went really well.

Although I know the "right back to square one" is refering to how bad things were last weekend, It still looks like she is just being in this to ease her own consciense, for what I'm not sure. But you add this to the secret she posted about wanting to just "tell him it's over" and what am I left with?

 

 

ADMIN NOTE: I know you were quoting this email but please redact offensive and foul language in the future. This is a Christian board.

[HumbledB4God]

HumbledBe4God,

 

That is such an excellent post! You put my answer to shame.

 

Don't be ashamed. My answer was the same as yours but with more words. I have to watch it because I write long answers and I risk being the one who becomes known a fool because of many words.

 

In Christ,

John

[HumbledB4God]

this is an email that she sent to a mutual friend

 

"Haven't done the divorce thing yet, hell haven't even booted his [admin edit] yet... but one thing at a time. I keep thinking he's going to straighten out but that doesn't seem to be happening any time soon. He does really well for about a week and then bam right back to square one. At first I felt sorry for the dumb [admin edit] and he's the one that tried to go elsewhere for some action and now I am just getting [admin edit] off. But I can honestly say I am trying to be stupid just to prove to him and to be able to say I didn't just give up so it won't be my fault."

 

 

This was sent right after our date night which I thought went really well.

Although I know the "right back to square one" is refering to how bad things were last weekend, It still looks like she is just being in this to ease her own consciense, for what I'm not sure. But you add this to the secret she posted about wanting to just "tell him it's over" and what am I left with?

 

You are left with explaining what happened about going "elsewhere for some action." You object to your sister-in-law fornicating in your home but it sounds as if you have committed some form of adultery.

 

Also your wife needs to see you be consistently Christlike. This may sound unreasonable, but you should look at it as a test from the Lord to ensure that you're not dropping into further sin.

 

Does "back to square one" have to do with adulterous behaviors or the way you treat her. I would also say that you have to definitely stand against fornication in your home so that your wife knows that you know that you sinned! If you wink at your sister-in-law fornicating in your family home, that tends to show your wife that you don't consider sexual sin that big of a deal. In reality, there's a reason why it's in the Ten Commandments. It's a huge deal to the Lord and to your wife. You have to be sexually pure for her.

 

And you need to get to an intensive as soon as possible!

 

In Christ

John

[Rebecca]

and he's the one that tried to go elsewhere for some action and now I am just getting [admin edit] off

 

What did your wife mean by this?

 

You will have to decide how serious you are about being christ-like. It can't depend on your wifes behavior. As far as your wife using bad language to describe you, well I have cussed my own husband out big time when I was venting. At least I did it to his face.

 

Are you on these boards to find an excuse to get out of the program by letting everybody know how bad your wife is? What is your motivation?

[HumbledB4God]

and he's the one that tried to go elsewhere for some action and now I am just getting [admin edit] off

 

What did your wife mean by this?

 

You will have to decide how serious you are about being christ-like. It can't depend on your wifes behavior. As far as your wife using bad language to describe you, well I have cussed my own husband out big time when I was venting. At least I did it to his face.

 

Are you on these boards to find an excuse to get out of the program by letting everybody know how bad your wife is? What is your motivation?

 

Ditto, and now you are the one who cuts to the core of the issue!

 

In Christ,

John

[Rebecca]

Ditto, and now you are the one who cuts to the core of the issue!

My husband got a kick out of this.

 

Hey phowes1,

 

Nobody is wanting to give you a hard time. I personally am very committed to Joel and Kathy's message of husbands being christ-like. Of the husband going first in the marriage relationship. Also, of the husband bringing healing and restoration to his wife if necessary. It seems that for most couples married for any length of time then the healing and restoration is vital. It is sad that so many christian men are morally weak and have sinned against their wives in this way. (moral failure of some kind)

 

But, we can all repent and turn our lives around thanks to Jesus and His amazing mercy. I am sure that your wife has sins and faults. As you go first and be the one to change and grow in Christ, then your wife in turn will be convicted of her sins and repent for herself and grow and change. This has happened to me as well and continues to. As christians we all need to continually spur one another on more and more toward Christ. That is what it is all about.

[wisernow]

Can I ask if she knows you are reading her emails, and that you are on her myspace?

 

My space I guess is public, but her email wouldn't to me seem like it would be!

 

Maybe I'm all wet, but it seems like you are spying on her! Am I missing something here?

[phowes1]

First I am not here to try to make my wife look bad so I can get out of the program. I have no intention of discontinueing my growth no matter what happens in my marriage.

 

 

The reference to "go somewhere for some action" This was made in reference to an emotional affair I had on line earlier this year that was ended on July 1 2007. This emotional affair lasted approximately 45 days.

 

 

The reference to my going "back to square one" is in reguards to the fight we had last weekend over the sister-in-laws boyfriend living here with us.

 

 

 

As for reading her email.... This was coppied and pasted and forwarded to me from the mutual friend.

 

The myspace yes it is public but also I am on her friends list so anything she posts automatically goes to my bulitian board I read the posting.

[HumbledB4God]

First I am not here to try to make my wife look bad so I can get out of the program. I have no intention of discontinueing my growth no matter what happens in my marriage.

 

The reference to "go somewhere for some action" This was made in reference to an emotional affair I had on line earlier this year that was ended on July 1 2007. This emotional affair lasted approximately 45 days.

 

The reference to my going "back to square one" is in reguards to the fight we had last weekend over the sister-in-laws boyfriend living here with us.

 

As for reading her email.... This was coppied and pasted and forwarded to me from the mutual friend.

 

The myspace yes it is public but also I am on her friends list so anything she posts automatically goes to my bulitian board I read the posting.

 

OK. July 1 to the present to get over the injury of an emotional adultery is insufficient. No more to say about that.

 

As to the rest, I wish J&K were here!

 

I strongly suggest that you book an intensive, and as soon as possible.

 

In Christ,

John

[wisernow]

As for reading her email.... This was coppied and pasted and forwarded to me from the mutual friend.

 

The myspace yes it is public but also I am on her friends list so anything she posts automatically goes to my bulitian board I read the posting.

 

It sounds like she knows about the my space, and if she is fine with that - okay!

 

I am a bit concerned about you having a mutual friend send you copies of her personal emails tho! I don't know about your wife, but I would be having a hissie about that! Won't she be a bit ticked off when she finds out about that?

 

I'm not so sure that is the best course of action. Seriously.

[phowes1]

We have been talkiing quite a bit and everything seems to come back to when it comes to us ahe feels lost. What does this mean? She says somedays she wants me to leave and others she doesn't. I almost think I should get an apartment then maybe we can work back to each other but then what about the days she doesn't want me to leave? I don't know.

 

 

Another thing when we were talking about when things are good (the good days) is when she feels good about herself. When she does things go well for us. When she said that all of a sudden all these things that I have done to her flashed back to me showing me how I destroyed her self esteem. I appoligized and brough tsome of them up, I was told this makes it harder for her cause she had pushed them aside and forgoten them and I just reminded her of them and that brought it alll back and she was angry all over again. Is this helping???

 

 

 

I don't know I just think well i donn't know what to think just kinda floating here and am not sure if I'm doing this right.

 

 

 

Peter

[Rebecca]

Hi Peter,

 

Since I don't know your whole story I will just go with what you have posted here. Pour love onto your wife. Be kind, sweet, caring, tender. Speak only with kindness. Don't get frustrated with her. Treat her like a mother treats a sick child or baby, with complete tenderness and gentleness.

 

I personally don't recommend that the husband bring up how he thinks that he has caused hurt to his wife. Let her do that. When she does, validate her. Say, "honey, I know I did that to you. I am so sorry. I will never do that to you again, or treat you that way again, or say that to you again. Use whatever phrase is appropriate. Then give her time to greive. If you are doing what Joel and Kathy teach, hearing your wifes heart, allowing her to vent, validating her, giving verbal promises and affirmation, then it will be normal for her emotions to go back and forth. Today she may hate your guts, tomorrow she may be in your arms.

 

This is where the man has to remain strong. You cannot allow your negative emotions to show. You remaain loving and consistent. Imagine how we expect Jesus to treat us. What do you want from Jesus? Do that for your wife.

 

 

Do you and your wife pray together? Is she willing? Would she like for you to pray for her? I liked for my husband to pray for me. What areas did you hurt her in? Find out how you can now persue those areas for her and your marriage.

 

For instance, my husband hurt me in the sexual area by not always meeting my needs. A very important way that he made up to me was to make sex all about me, doing what I wanted and needed and putting his needs on the back shelf. He did this so consistently that it brough healing to me. Now our sex life is great and can only get better.

 

Ask her very specifically what she wants from you and then be sure to do it. She does not want you to move out. She wants you to prove your love for her. That is what you must do if you do love her and want to bring healing to her.

 

Remember this is how a man dies to himself. This is how he dies to his carnal nature and allows christ to be formed in him.

 

I sure hope this helps.

[HumblePie]

Peter

 

Your wife's healing will come as she is allowed to bring this stuff out. If she keeps it in she is just stuffing it. It is better to let her vent. Do you think that your wife wants you to leave, or is this part of her venting?

 

I got to the place where I wanted my wife to vent. The reason I wanted her to vent was because we made progress that way. Eventually her venting changed from the hurts I had caused to other things. That was about 8 months ago.

 

But, there was a time it still seamed this was not working, it appeared to be going on too long. It felt like my wife also was growing weary of not being healed.

 

Then, one day, she said to me, "I have decided to forgive you, and from here on out I am moving forward, without looking back." That was about 2 months ago. Now, life has been absolutely wonderful.

 

Here's my advice: Keep doing what is right. Don't fall down on the job. Don't get upset. When you see your wife opening up be very careful to affirm her and let her feel safe and secure. The main thing is we men are becoming christ-like. What appears to be problems are in reality God given opportunities to die to ourselves. Don't give up.

 

Your wife is wanting you to become a man she can lean on and count on to be strong and consistent. My wife wanted me to let everything fall on me. She wanted me to take it like a man.

 

That's it for now. In Christ, Nate

[phowes1]

I want to thank you guys and gals for your replies, it does help to hear from others.

 

 

Rebecca,

I have ask her what she wants from me, She at this point can't give me an answer. When she does bring things up I do validate her, as for not bringing up the hurts myself I was thinking about the 100's list, but I do see your point as well as hers on this subject, thank you. As for praying together No we don't well except for at meals. I have mentioned it to her and she has a hord time with feeling connected when paying with another person, she feels that this is a private and very intimate thing that is between god and the one praying. Though I do still pray for her when I pray.

 

The areas I hurt her in, Well I would treat her liek a child, berate her for not getting the house work done, condemn her for spending so much time with her family, Get mad at her when her family would show up at all hours and she would drop our plans to assist them, I was abusive (never physically but that doesn't matter), I would get angry for the stupid little things, I get angry when she didn't want to have sex, I expected her go everywhere and run errands for me no matter how she felt (even expecting her to travel 6.5 hours 8 months pregnant with our son to pick up my older daughter), and the final straw was an online emotional affair this past summer, I know there is more but my brain is hurting and I can't think of any right now.

 

 

Humblepie,

 

I am at that place where I wan t her to vent, And for the same reason I see progress after the venting. I don't see enough venting, well at least not enough for me, I just want this get over so we can move on already. I see her too growing weary of not being healed.

 

Do I fall down on the job? Yes occasionally I do and at those times it seems like we go back to square one all over again. Those time when i do fall, I have started catching my self b4 I actually fly off in a rage or what ever, I see the look in her eyes like here we go again and I stop and breathe and then say lets try this discussion(or what ever the situation is) over again, I was getting angry and am not sure why but we can start this again and go in the right direction. I can see where she want the consistancy, she has made comments to that effect like "at least when you were being a jerk, I knew what to expect and just said the heck with it, now I don't know how your going to react to anything, cause your not being that jerk" or something to that effect. So I have to be consistantly Christ like to bring the healing to her. Let her vent, I just wish she would more!!!

[Rebecca]

It sounds like you are doing what you are supposed to be doing. Just keep it up. Healing takes time and we can't put a time table on it. I remember about 4 months ago my husband looked at me and said, "honey, it's time for you to be healed." I didn't know what to say to him or how to respond. I began moving away from him emotionally and he was the one to come to me and apologize for demanding that. We had to allow healing to come in it's own time.

 

I can say that only a few months later I experienced a major change in my heart toward my husband. We are on the other side of all of this. Joel and Kathy give a 3 year time frame for a man to change into christ-likeness. We need to be willing to allow for time. We are always too much in a hurry as modern day christians. We want instant gratification in everything. But that is not reality for life. Think of how much time we put into education for instance. We don't expect a masters degree within a year of beginning school. We allow for time and much effort and energy spent.

 

A healed wife and happy marriage is worth all of the effort you can

put into it. As you continue to grow into a tender, loving and gentle husband your wife will feel safe to trust you and move toward you.

 

Galations 5:22

22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,