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Thank you, 4evr. That makes sense.


This has been a crazy two plus weeks. I have felt very much disconnected and out-of-sorts.


The day after my last post, the car broke down leaving #4 son and myself "stranded." God took care of us, and all worked out okay, but it was a very stressful day. Wednesday of the next week, #2 daughter's car broke down with her on her way home from her night class. Does it ever stop?


Last weekend the guys had a campout. J was supposed to go, but stayed home the first night to work on daughter's car. #4 son did not go due to health status. Sons 2, 3, and 5 left Friday evening. J was to go Saturday after finishing with the car.


Around 10am, #3 called to tell about a cooking competition that was going to take place in the afternoon. We had not known about this so they had not gone prepared to enter. #5 wanted to participate in it. He was the only boy from the outpost that wanted to, and there was to be a minimum of three boys to be able to enter. #2 and #3 are leaders. They were given special permission for #2 and #5 to work together for the competition. They took 1st place!


After getting the call, however, J and I made some pretty quick time in gathering all our cooking items they would need as well as the food to prepare. Then we had an almost 2 hour drive to get to the camp.


The travel time was very good. We had about 4 hours including the return trip. In my opinion, this was pretty good communication time. I was able to tell him how I was feeling and what I thought was causing it. By the end of the day, I was feeling much better. Time together is a wonderful thing!


When we got home, we found that #4 son was not doing quite as well as he had been when we left. Headache, shoulder pain, and dizziness had increased somewhat. Sunday was not too good for him either. Therefore, J went to the other house by himself as we were not going to put the travel time on son. He suggested that he would come home Wednesday night.


Well, Wednesday came and went .... and he didn't. We talked. I feel like through the excuses that he was giving me for not coming home, that he was trying to lay a guilt trip on me for wanting him to come home. I know he was not intentionally trying to do that. When I mentioned to him that I felt that way, it was if he didn't even hear me. He made no comment about it at all. It all boils down to he doesn't want to do the drive. It doesn't matter about what I want or need.


Of course, "Little Miss Understanding" understands about the drive, and I manage. And I forgive.....because I WANT TO (that is for you J!). I guess the biggest thing is to not suggest doing something if you aren't prepared to follow through with it. This really could come down to some deep seated issue here. I don't have dreams or fantasies about what I would like. Why should I? I live in my day-to-day reality, and that is it.


It was not an ugly exchange. We didn't go to bed mad. We just didn't go to bed together. This is too much of a reminder of his apartment and everything else. He would say he would come home on Wednesday then too. He didn't always follow through then.


He did end up getting called back in to work before he got very far away from the plant. It would have been too late to come home. I know all that. I can tell you that we would have been in bed before midnight though, which is earlier than he managed there. It would have been a lot more fun too!


Well, he suggested he would come home tonight....we'll see.


Med update: daughter has nerve test tomorrow afternoon

                     son's MRI is finally scheduled for Monday morning....They called yesterday to schedule it...2+ weeks after doctor ordered it!

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MJ, we don't have a regular night that we make it on the calls, but, yes, we do still get on.


J did make it home last night. #2 daughter was playing in a community outdoor concert, and he met us there. Due to circumstances that created some misunderstandings after the concert things did not go very well. In fact, I think we would both question why he came home. His attitude and behavior put me in a bad place to the point that I questioned his activities while we were apart.


Thankfully he was able to turn this around, and the night ended well.

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Thank the Lord for Fridays! What a week.


Last Friday was our daughter's nerve test. We have not gotten a report back on that yet.


Sunday night was very late; we got in after midnight. I needed to drop J off at work at 5am so that #4 son and I could get to his scheduled MRI appointment by 6:30. Surprisingly we got the report the same day on that. It was normal. Thank the Lord! Still a lot of questions and no answers there.


I've been working on #3 daughter's Honor Star dress this week. I haven't worked on it in the evenings when J is home to give us time together, but it seems that only boils down to watching movies with the children. I could have had the dress done by now.


I'm feeling pretty bummed out and unimportant except to our children. I'm glad I am important to them.


Maybe next week can be better.

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4evr, we talked long into the night Saturday night/Sunday morning. We arrived nowhere. Maybe my words finally starting sinking in, or he saw my distress when we got to church. Sunday afternoon was a little better. Due to a late night Sunday, he and I left Monday morning for work and other house. We left the children at home rather than expect to get them out at 4am. Also, son did not handle Sunday travel very well so did not want to put more travel on him. We will be going home after work today, and I will be at home the rest of the week. It was easier to leave them home since we were only going to be here a couple of days. It also gives the two of us a little bit of time alone.


We talked more on the way up yesterday morning. In fact, because I insisted on finishing the point I was talking about, he missed getting clocked in on time to get paid for the 15 minutes of overtime he would have had otherwise. He was not late for work. I did feel like his text informing me of his clock-in time and asking if there was anything else I wanted to talk about was his blaming me for his missing that OT pay time. It had to have been by seconds. I responded that he needed to adjust the clock in the car. Upon comparing its time with my phone and a bank clock it was off by 1 minute (actually less than a minute). So, no, I don't take responsibility for that. According to the clock in the car, when he left the car he had time to get clocked in. Well, nothing more was said about it.


So what I needed to finish telling him was what God showed me about the difference in the being and doing.


Doing - Christianity is a bunch of rules of do's and don'ts. I follow them to keep from going to hell. I don't like them. I'd rather do my own thing, but I force myself to follow them just to stay out of hell.


Being - I desire to follow God's commands because I love Him and don't want to hurt Him. Yes, there are times that my flesh wants to do its own thing, but because I am a person that loves God, and I don't want to hurt Him, my flesh doesn't win out.


For example, in the early days of discovery, my flesh wanted to retaliate in like manner. I wanted him to know how badly I was hurt by causing him the same kind of pain. But, because I am a child of the most high God, I couldn't do that. I have relinquished control of my being to God to the point that my mind could not even comprehend allowing my flesh to have its way in that. The thought of it actually disgusted me even though it was what my flesh was suggesting. To allow it would go against so many of God's instructions. It would hurt me further. Truth be known, it probably would have relieved J rather than hurt him. But the greatest thing was that it would hurt God. I couldn't hurt God.


When things are good, it is easy to "do" the right thing. When things are a little rough, we can force ourselves to "do" the right thing. But when things are down right impossible, it is then that we have to be in the position of "being" to be able to "do" the right thing. Live according to WWJD!


How does this relate to our husband/wife relationship? J can "do" things because J&K have these God directed guidelines. He can follow the rules for the sake of the rules. He can "make me happy" because he accepts the task of following the rules, but that is all surface stuff. It doesn't touch his heart or mine. It's all mechanical and will blow away with the adverse winds. Or he can move to the mental position that he loves God and wants to show God that love. He moves into the realization that when he shows God's love to me, he puts a smile on God's face. That same realization would include that when he doesn't show God's love to me, he puts tears in God's eyes. When that realization controls your actions, you are "being." When the rules control your action, you are "doing."


"Being" will never take you down the wrong path.


Our daughter has another doctor's appointment tomorrow. She has mild carpal tunnel and is to get another steroid injection in a different location in her wrist than the last one. I pray this will give her the relief she needs.

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You're exactly right. 


I think these guys get stuck because they are trying to figure out HOW to get to the being stage. They have been told that they are supposed to want that, and they strive in their own power to find that elusive whatever that will make it happen. What they don't get is that the only way it happens is when they want it - really want it, and not just to comply with the rules. And no one can make them want it. 

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  He can follow the rules for the sake of the rules. He can "make me happy" because he accepts the task of following the rules, but that is all surface stuff. It doesn't touch his heart or mine. It's all mechanical and will blow away with the adverse winds. Or he can move to the mental position that he loves God and wants to show God that love. He moves into the realization that when he shows God's love to me, he puts a smile on God's face. That same realization would include that when he doesn't show God's love to me, he puts tears in God's eyes. When that realization controls your actions, you are "being." When the rules control your action, you are "doing."


"Being" will never take you down the wrong path.


I really like how you describe these things. I agree with you on this! As hard as some things have been, I see you keeping a clear head and heart. You were right not to take the blame on the time incident. :)

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Thank you 4evr.


I really don't know what to think right now. I was on the call tonight. J was at the other house. I texted to see if he was on the call. He had forgotten and was watching DVDs. I suggested he needed to get on as it was good. After it ended, I texted to see what he thought about it.....presuming he had gotten on after my text. He said it was confusing but maybe mixing it up with what he had just watched on DVD. I suggested he could have spoken up and asked for clarification.


He called. We talked. I'm frustrated. It seems I far too often get the million and one reasons why he can't work on marriage. I said I wasn't going to settle for just having what we had before. Then I get the "so are you just going to throw me out?" This is the second time I have gotten this in less than a week. I am beginning to get the idea that that is what he wants me to do. Then it looks like I'm the bad guy here.


I really do want an OHM with J. However, I am really feeling like he lied to me in saying that he was committed to getting the OHM. I don't think he cares!


Now, I know he will see this. He has time to read my posts. I'm glad he does. He just doesn't have time or concern to do his own posts to get us to an OHM.

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Passive guys almost never say they want a divorce. They just keep on throwing out crumbs, trying to convince everyone that they are working on the marriage, until their wife refuses to accept them anymore. They force their wife to make the decision to divorce, and then it's not their fault.


If you do get to the place where you need to divorce, just accept the fact that that's probably the way it's gonna go down. Don't worry about what he tells people or what anyone thinks. They don't live with him.


I really hope it doesn't get to that point, though.


Glad you got on the call. Steve and Melissa are good, aren't they? :)

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Yes, they are very good.


The kind of sad thing is that pretty much all of what was talked about on the call pertained to us.


I know when listening to a sermon, one should not think "I hope so and so is listening to this." One should think "how should this change me." Last night's call was an "I hope he is listening and getting this. This is what we need."


At the risk of sending him off in his own little world, I am going to tell about this here. I will so he will see any responses to it, and maybe it can help others too. It isn't to talk badly about J and put him down. It is to get the help we so desperately need, and that he doesn't seem to be willing to ask for.


On our way home Tuesday, I brought up a statement he had made in a conversation over the weekend. He had said he was a slow learner, and that it takes several times of going over things for him to get them. I can appreciate that. Although I don't consider him to be a slow learner, I do understand that it takes several times of going over something to get it. I do it all the time. J&K get that too, thus the assignment of reading books, watching DVDs, reading Bible over and over. It takes time to get the new, right info in and replace the old, wrong info. Nothing wrong with that. Scripture even says to "meditate" on His word. That is to go over it and over it throughout the day. It's all good.


My question for him was what was his "textbook" that he was going over and over? Then I got the bit about how busy the last two days were. Yeah, but we've been in this ministry for a year and a half, not just two days. I pointed out that the book reading is just 10 min. a day. I said his lack of doing that tells me that our marriage is not worth even 10 min. a day to him. Needless to say, our conversation did not go well. I had intended to just ask a kind of playful and thought provoking question of him and leave it at that. Let him have something to think about.


I really think that deep down he wants an OHM, but for some devil deceived idea, he thinks it will magically appear. It doesn't happen that way. Anything worth having is worth working for.


So I told him I was kind of sorry that I had brought it up because I didn't want to ruin what little was left of our night with his getting to the house 2-1/2 hours later than I anticipated. But he rescued them at work! Yes, I am glad he is the one that was able to fix someone else's major disaster. I applaud his expertise on his job. He knows his stuff and does it well. That knowledge, however, didn't just come magically overnight. He had to learn it by studying his textbooks in school and a lot of on the job training and trial and error. So our marriage is the same way.


In reading other people's post I have seen the phrase of the guy "getting in his own head" and didn't really grasp how that is. I think I finally understand it now.


He had to admit that he has not been diligent about doing the homework. I commented that if he had been, we would have our OHM already. So I got the "he failed," and I think this was the first of the asking if I was going to throw him out.


On the call last night, Steve talked about taking ownership of issues and validating the wife's feelings. DON'T GIVE EXCUSES! That does not validate. What do I get? EXCUSES!


He also says he doesn't know how to apply the teaching to our marriage....that is what the forum and calls are for! Make use of them. Quit trying to reinvent the wheel.


This one is for J. You know how frustrated you are with #2 son because he isn't beating the job search bush to find a job in the field he says he wants; instead he "sits on the computer playing games" and waits for this job to magically appear at the door looking for him to accept it. In this scenario, put yourself in his shoes and me in yours. You still love him, but don't understand why he is so "lazy" about going after what he says he wants. That job will never find him unless he works for it. Our OHM will never find us unless you work for it. He can give excuses that he was too busy doing whatever, but you don't accept that because you see what kind of hours he spends on the computer playing games, watching movies, etc. And it doesn't matter how many good things he has done throughout the day. He does have the time; he just makes poor choices on what to do with the time. At least his computer time is clean and honorable. I do believe that. I think yours probably is too (now), but it keeps you from doing the more important things.  


Here's another comparison: you have commented on how the children are always ready and willing to help do things anywhere but at home. That's not completely true, but is to a large extent. But what says the most about their character? What they are at home! The same goes for you. You save them at work. You save them at church (a/c, or other such maintenance issues). You save your mother and siblings. You even save Joe Blow down the street. But what about us at home? What about me? What about our marriage?


Before I get the "do I stop doing those things?" here is what Jesus said about it in Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. So we are supposed to "do it all" just be sure not to omit the higher priority things. That would be God, me, marriage, and children.


So I repeat, I will not settle for going back to life as we knew it before. It was not good enough to keep the doors bolted shut that led to the wrong paths. It's all the way to our OHM or nothing. That is not an ultimatum. It is a challenge!


Get out of your negative self-centered world and diligently pursue our OHM as though your very breath depends on it. The breath and life of our marriage does depend on it. I cannot force the OHM through. As I said last night, if we don't make it to an OHM, it won't be because I closed the door on it. I want it. How badly do you?


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This is all classic passive guy stuff, unfortunately.  :unsure:


I like your analogy of training for his job, and I'm not sure why guys have such a hard time transferring that concept over to personal issues. I'll have to pick Steve's brain about that . . . anyway, it seems that when it comes to matters of behavior/character, these guys have this idea that when they know what they are supposed to do, it will just happen. The concept of actually working to change, actively exercising control over their behavior, and rewiring their thought patterns seems to elude them. 


One thing to watch out for, though, if he chooses to get back into the books. Sometimes studying the books can go too far. My ex would read the books, take notes, watch the DVDs, take notes, and then sit for hours and transcribe all of his notes into the computer. He seemed to firmly believe that his behavior would just automatically line up, and if he wasn't doing the right things, then there must be some critical piece of information he was missing. He probably could have taught an intensive by the time our marriage broke up. He also believed that reading the books and being on calls was "working on the marriage" - and it is, but that's only part of it. He never actually applied anything he was learning. I told him it was like studying brain surgery and then never performing an operation. What's the point?


I mainly said that because J is going to read this - I know that you understand it. There has to be a balance between learning and actually doing. It will NOT just happen. Every single thing we do is a choice, and when you choose one thing, that automatically means that you cannot choose some other things. If J chooses to spend time on the computer, he cannot read the books or make an emotional connection with you.


One question - other than you pointing it out, what happens if J chooses to spend time on the computer instead of with you, or if he does not read the books? I know you probably feel like you should be past the point of needing to give consequences, but based on his behavior, you're not. Something unpleasant needs to happen when he is not doing what he needs to be doing. He can tune out the fact that you're unhappy. He's been doing it for years.


And another thing - stop the long explanations. They are counterproductive for a passive guy. When you explain and explain, he doesn't have to do anything. They also feed his need to be rescued - he feels like you still love him because you come after him in the relationship. Steve wrote this awhile ago ~


When a wife "pursues" a husband through his defenses, she is stepping out of God's will for the marriage relationship - granted, for most wives, that's the only way for the marriage to survive and for them to get any level of connection with their husbands. But, that was all BEFORE J&K insights and teachings, right? 

Once the husband has been taught how the marriage relationship is supposed to work (by Joel and Kathy), the wife's role, as helpmeet appointed by God, is to point out to the husband that he is off-track, and suggest the resources that he has at his disposal to find a cure. Then, it's his responsibility within the marriage relationship to seek out help (from God and others) to change and grow into the Christ-like man he is called to be. It's the job of helpers and/or Joel and Kathy to direct his path, and the job of the helpmeet to encourage steps in the right direction and point out steps in the wrong direction. If the husband doesn't want to accept help from his wife, Joel and Kathy, or helpers, then he's made a decision about how he wants it to be, hasn't he?

Wives have to show husbands that they are "on the same team" and on the same path towards an OHM - working together is the only way this all works. A husband can't throw up walls, and the wife can't push through them to force things to work. 

and ~ 


This is where my wife (Eeyore) was for our entire marriage - I would shrink away for some reason, and she would pursue me to pull me out of my funk and get me back on the right path. She was having to play the role of the INITIATOR, while I was the RESPONDER - and we were BOTH outside our God-given roles. This is a painful and frustrating place for a woman to be, and it is also a frustrating place for the man to be, although us passive guys are quite comfortable there, which is one of the BIG problems you face as the wife of a passive man.

Not until Eeyore starting to completely embrace her role as a Godly HELPMEET and just point out my actions and STAND ON THE TRUTH, rather than pursue me when I was going the wrong direction, did I start to find the role of the RESPONDER to be too uncomfortable to camp there. That's when I started to change - not just my words and actions to match some "formula", but to truly turn to GOD to change me inside; that's when I started to find my mind TRANSFORMED and RENEWED, from within rather than from some concept of "Yeah, I really shouldn't do that anymore"...

As I have said before, passive guys won't change until it's too uncomfortable to remain where they have been. There are different ways to make things uncomfortable, and I don't mean that a wife should get ugly or anything, but just REAL. Eeyore did an awesome job of this - "Here's the truth, Bubba, make your choice, and I will stand with you if and when you choose the RIGHT actions" - and that was SO helpful in bringing me around. She was gracious and welcoming and loving (despite the pain and frustration that I KNOW she was feeling towards me) when I "flipped the switch" and began putting her first CONSISTENTLY.





This was Melissa's post on the same topic ~


as I have grown stronger, I have taken that PASSION, and tempered it with that FACT-BASED direction I posted about before. You posted that you had reached the point of not taking it any more before you found this ministry, I had too. But I was still doing the same old things, trying to get him to change while protecting HIS feelings... not venting because I did not want to hurt him, etc. But this time I reached the point where I did not care any more. I knew that whether he wanted to hear it or not, I needed to say it. The decision was his about what he did with it and how he handled it.

So, I took my passion, and my new strength and my growing maturity, and I used it to tell him, in that fact-based way, what he was doing, and what I expected of him. Not in a "reactive" way but in a "responsive" way. I told him how he made me feel, or how we was acting, etc., and EXPECTED change!

I had drawn that line in the sand many times before, but my emotions were so wrapped up in it, and I was unable to stand at all. I was frantic and hurt and depressed and angry. Now I was all of those same things, but instead of drawing the line in the sand and standing there waiting for things to change, I stepped BACK and DEMANDED them. BUT, not with more words, with LESS!! I just said what I needed, then SHUT UP! For ME, this was a BIG change! And my silence spoke to him, much more than my words ever did. I am not saying that I did not vent, but there is a time for venting, and a time for just laying down the law. Make sense?

You see, I would draw a line in the sand, then stand there and wait for change. But he would throw a tantrum, and I would end up getting covered in sand, getting it in my eyes, my ears, my mouth. It would be more hurt upon what he had already done. (I would tell him that it was like he cut off my leg, then he would use that leg to beat me over the head!) His rejection of me when I would tell him how he ALREADY hurt me, would just add more hurt and more hurt and more... So NOW, I draw the line in the sand and WALK AWAY! I know that it is hard, but why stay around and get sand in your eyes?! Why stand there and watch him throw a tantrum? NOPE!! Walk away. If he wants to join you, he can... but HE needs to grow up! And you are giving him the direction to do it, and expecting it, but leaving the growing up to him.




J strikes me as being a very intelligent man. It is unlikely that he doesn't understand what you need, but if he really doesn't, he has resources available to help him find the answer. The thing is, he will put in as much effort as you require - actually require, as in there are consequences if he doesn't do it - and no more. If you do require it and he still refuses to put forth the effort . . . well, then you know where he stands. No one can force him to do this. All you can do is decide what you will or will not accept in the relationship and then enforce that boundary. 

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Thank you, Looney. This is all good.


I have always thought of J as being very intelligent. He has the capability of doing a lot of different things and can do whatever he sets his mind to do. I have the confidence in him that he can do this if he will priortize it and diligently apply himself to it.


A wise man has told me on different occasions that "nothing will change until the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of change." I'm sure J was not the author of this concept, but he is the one that has shared it.


Well, my wise man, how much pain does it take?


I will stop explaining.

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I was on the call last night, getting on around 9cst. I thought it was very good. Julie compared the changing guys to the metamorphosis of a butterfly. I thought that was really good. The thought that came to my mind was to further make that comparison: if we help the butterfly emerge, it will not survive. It must do it on its own to gain the strength in its wings, also like a chick breaking out of its shell. So with guys, if we tell them every step instead of their learning to see and process the problems and then make corrections accordingly, will not be able to stand on his own and bring healing to wife and marriage. Of course, the guys can have guidance, but everything can't be handed to them on a silver platter. They have to do the work!


J texted during the call and mentioned that he was on. Brownie points to you J. I would guess he got on right before I did.....so he heard the PA guy description. A little later he texted questioning if he was a PA guy. Absolutely! I also said the good thing about that is that it is learned behavior that he can correct. At least he sees. That is a start. I do think we had a conversation about this around intensive time. Maybe this time it is from more of the personal evaluation standpoint rather that sitting under the intensive teaching and being told you are because of ..... Again, that emerging butterfly "seeing" for himself.


A very busy weekend is ahead. Both of our college guys will be home tomorrow night. They are coming in for daughter's Honor Star Crowning Sunday night. I am praying we will be able to speak some small nugget of life into #1 son. It will be good to see them.

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Well, J is on his way home. He called, and at first I was very glad to hear his voice.


Then I got the notice that he is already in a bad mood. Wow, this is going to be a good evening isn't it. I just can't wait.


Why the bad mood? Because he went back and made the bed! Really! Although I probably should not have done so, I asked why making the bed puts him in a bad mood. Because when I see it, I will have to unmake it and make it again. Excuse me. The last time I believe I gave him brownie points because the bed was made (which he had not even been making a pretense of doing before). I said it could use a little fine tuning (not those words), but I certainly recognized and appreciated his effort in what he did do. I told him it was okay if he didn't make the bed.....just don't sleep in it if you aren't willing to make it!


Then he surmises negative reasons as to why sons are coming home tomorrow night rather than Sunday morning as was we were originally told. The negative is about #1 son. He did process around on his own that perhaps son was changing for the good.


Then he gives indication of a negative attitude about coming home because he will probably hear a lot about how the children were not doing this or that. Then a "maybe I'm wrong."


To top it off, he then asks, "How was your day?" I responded with the fact that he had already asked that in a text earlier in the day. How do I say it was just great until having this phone conversation with you? Of course, I just did tell him when he reads this.


I was raised with making beds in the morning when you get up. I still do that. The room looks much nicer. It is so much easier to feel good about myself with the bed made. It isn't sloppy and careless. So in this conversation I was invalidated and told to be sloppy and careless because my wanting a bed made puts him in a bad mood.


Then I was told to just shut up and not say anything about anything that has been going on with the children because he is not interested and it will just further his bad mood which I have already put him in because of making the bed that he slept in.


In Jesus name, this will be a good weekend. The enemy has NO foothold in my household.


Silence is golden. If he wants me to be quiet, I can be quiet.

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I know you are just venting... I am sorry this is happening and I am sure you already know that your husband is trying to make you responsible for how he feels instead of acknowledging that he has a CHOICE to be happy and joyful or not. He gets to CHOOSE how he feels and right now in his arrested development he is blaming anyone and everyone.

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Passive guys tend to believe that they have no control over their emotions. Notice their language - ___ put me in a bad mood. After all, these negative feelings can't be their fault! They would be perfectly happy if everyone would just do what they are supposed to do and leave them alone. :roll:


It's not the feelings that are bad. If you don't enjoy making the bed, it's OK to be irritated when you have to go back and make it. Can you tell I'm not a bed maker either? ;) However, you can choose whether or not making that bed is going to ruin your day and your relationships with those around you. A "bad mood" is not one specific emotion - it's a snowball effect that influences how you view things, and how you behave, for an extended period of time. You can be irritated but put a smile on your face and have a good day in spite of it.


You can also choose to view making that bed as an act of service for the wife you love, in which case the irritation lessens considerably. I'm not saying you will ever enjoy the actual act of making the bed, but if you change your attitude about it - my wife needs this in order to be comfortable vs. I have to do this so I don't get in trouble - AND you choose not to resent your wife for being "too picky," it's a whole lot less annoying.

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Thank you 4evr and MJ....and Looney. The "funny" thing about the whole bed thing is that I never told him he HAD to make the bed. He just knows it makes me feel better. I have been pleasantly surprised when (at home) he has made the bed while I was in the shower. It has never been a "do it or else." When I am there and he leaves for work, I make the bed all the time. He doesn't have to help on it. I make his breakfast and lunch out of love for him. I even fixed his meals for this week when I wouldn't be there. Not for any pat on the back or anything, but because I love him and wanted to make one less thing for him to be concerned with.


Today didn't start out too hot. He had sent me a text last night after coming home, getting supper, and going directly to bed. I was ironing in our room so took that downstairs with the children. I had inadvertantly left my phone upstairs so saw it when I was going to bed. He had figured "it" out on the way home but would have to research "it." None of this had anything to do with me.


So this morning we are discussing this (I will leave it for him to post for now anyway). I suggested to him that he needs to take it to the forum....GET HELP!!!! I told him I needed a LOVER apology. Well, he would have to get a dictionary out and look up "validation" to see what it is.


He was the one giving the silent treatment. I told him I wasn't willing to go through a weekend of silence. I also said that I am not closing my heart to him. I am just tired of being hurt. His initial response was to say he would just go back to the other house and work on the stove (which I still do not have in my kitchen). I told him that would be running away and is not the answer. He "feels........!" His going on his "feelings" is what got us where we are. It is time to change that pattern!


He has been reading some on the forum this morning.


I refuse to let the enemy gain any ground with me. I can't force that idea on anyone else though.


God loveth a cheerful giver! What attitude do we do things in???? Like making the bed! If we give (or do) with a wrong attitude....we have our reward! God loveth a CHEERFUL giver!

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By the grace of God, we survived the weekend.


Daughter's Honor Start Crowning went very well. She was very beautiful. No bias here! Some friends we haven't seen in a very long time came to celebrate the evening with her. It was very good.

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The kids and I just made cookies on Tuesday......but they're gone! We can make more! ;-)  


I am beginning to grasp the term "crazy making," and it isn't pleasant.


Last night, we took the night off from any marriage work. J was about 2 hours late getting home from work, but at least this time he texted that he would be late and gave me a time frame. Thank you so much J! It is much easier on my peace of mind when I am kept informed about this instead of wondering where he is and when he will be home. We had talked about this the night before, and I had specifically requested that when he is going to be late that he call or text. So....great job! J, you heard my heart the first time and applied it immediately to make a change in your actions. Awesome!!!!


Supper was ready at 5:30 so the kids and I went ahead and ate and had everything cleaned up by the time J got home.


The kids have been watching a lengthy documentary on Lincoln, so we watched some of it last night.....with popcorn and then ice cream.


Due to being up past midnight the night before discussing marriage issues, we crashed immediately after going to bed.


This morning: my alarm is set for 5. I don't know what time his started going off. 4:45??? He is a perpetual snooze button operator. As a rule, I get up 1) before my alarm goes off, 2) when it goes off, or 3) after hitting the snooze 1 time. If I'm really exhausted AND he isn't getting up, I may hit the snooze a second time. So his had gone off at least 4 times, and it was still 5 minutes before mine was set to go off. I was worn out just from hearing his so many times. I even commented that he would start his day with less stress if he wouldn't hit the snooze so many times. Set it for when you need to get up and just get up. It's not healthy to have sleep disturbed continually like that.


So when my alarm went off, I was out of bed. I couldn't cope with anymore alarms. I went in and got his breakfast fixed, and still hadn't heard him up. My inclination was to not say anything at all. It came to mind all the negative comments that were given to me when I would go get that sleeping child up to go to work or class. They usually got up on their own, but there were times that they were just so exhausted they didn't hear the alarm. I would be told to just not get them up. Let them be late. They'll never "grow up" if you always get them up.


(This guy is trying to pick a fight with me!!!! - just got a text that this is leading up to)


I guess I am too "adult" and too "responsible" and too "whatever" to just sit back like that. Maybe I will have to change. Maybe I should be a careless child???? I went to see if he was up, and I just wasn't hearing him. He was still in bed....needs to leave in 20 minutes to be there at 6 so he can get his morning overtime in. So I questioned, "You're still in bed over 30 minutes after your alarm went off? I hope you aren't late for work!" I went back to the kitchen, helped up his plate if I hadn't already done that, and boxed up his lunch. I was just then beginning to hear signs of movement from the bedroom. I went to the living room to my computer and started checking emails.


I think I did subconciously hear him in the kitchen for the short time he had to eat breakfast. I had already decided that the best thing for me to do would be to stay out of the path of flying airplanes as he would be racing around due to the time. I was trying to stay out from underfoot. It absolutely had nothing to do with snooze alarms. I actually had put that behind me, and it was a forgotten thing until all this junk came up.


He paused at the door and said "bye." I did detect a bit of attitude there but didn't address it. I got up and went to tell him bye. He quickly prayed, kissed, and was out to the car saying if he didn't get behind anyone he might be able to get clocked in before 6:01. He had missed it the last couple of days. I said I wouldn't count on that.


So he made it on time! I don't even want to know how fast he was going.


Here we go: 37 minutes after the texts with smiley faces telling about his getting to work I get another text.


     J: Glad the computer was as good as talking with me.....


To be honest, I didn't know what to respond. Maybe I shouldn't have at all. Remember my day already started out very stressfully because I listened to his alarm go off a ridiculous length of time.


  me: Really! Glad the snooze was as good as getting up and being in the kitchen with me while I was fixing YOUR breakfast and packing YOUR lunch.


10 minutes later


  me: You know, you are very quick to condemn me for anything and everything, but do you ever stop to think about what you say and do does to me?        Start evaluating yourself and grow into the man that I need you to be and God has called you to be.


47 minutes later while typing the above


   J: So how I feel if I had been the one on the computer I would have been wrong .... Double standard?


 me: I don't understand


That's all so far. I do understand that texts at work really are taboo but have to work around work.


What is he trying to prove?


I think I need to be posting in the section of husbands working against the marriage.




Edited by 1love
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