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But how do we work on our marriage if we aren't together? I know.....he isn't working on it anyway.

 

 

Exactly.

 

There are many ways J. could work on your marriage when you're not together if he wanted to. But I don't think he really wants to. His refusal to talk to Steve on the call tonight says that loud and clear. If he decides that he does want to, he can come here and ask for direction.

 

I think J. wants a great marriage like he wants a million dollars. It sure would be nice if it fell into his lap, but he's not going to put in the kind of work it takes to earn it. He is willing to expend a certain amount of effort, no more, and if you're not happy with that then you're out of luck.

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To correct that he told me Tuesday morning that he was fine with my holding to my consequences because since I put it the way I did he didn't want any anyway, it is not true. He never said a word about it. He maybe thought it loud and clear, but he did not verbalize it until late that night.

 

Last night he did come back in and listened on the call. When the lines were open again, I told him *6 would unmute it so he could talk. I told him that Steve said if he came back in and wanted to talk to just get back on. In silence, I sat crushed as the call was ended.

 

We talked, after I finally got past the need for silence. Maybe I should say I talked. On one point, he apologized, but I called him on it. It was not a LOVER apology. So he thought a little bit and started going through what each letter stands for. He didn't get them all, but a week ago he wouldn't have gotten any. So he can learn this stuff and remember it.

 

I walked him through the validation point. How did it make me feel when he walked out to put the stove in? I had to point out to him that he should know because I had just told him not 5 minutes before. He was able to come up with "at the bottom of his list." I had to fill in for him "lower than the stove." The point is that he got it. He CAN do this.

 

When I said it had been mentioned that he sleep with the stove (he was in bed by now), his response was that he would just go get a room at the hotel. So then I had him process through that thought and what kind of thoughts that would put in my mind.

 

I know I was tough on him. Someone has to be because he isn't tough on himself. I talked a LOT! We had to go through the LOVER apology 2 or 3 times. But we pushed through it each time.

 

I asked if he was more afraid of opening up to the forum/call helpers to get help to change or of staying the same and risking losing everything.

 

I struggled with the idea of where to sleep. I had just washed the sheets yesterday and had been anticipating the fresh clean sheets. I really like the smell and feel of the just laundered bedding. It won out. I told him the reason I was staying in the bed was because of the sheets. That sounds awful, but it is the truth. He knew up front that nothing was going to happen. I hope this doesn't mean that I caved on the consequences. Must do for the weekend: he must fix the air mattress and load it to bring back up. Even if it doesn't get fixed, load it in the car. It holds air for most of the night. The point is not to have a cozy alternative anyway. The point is to make the resistance to change uncomfortable.

 

He asked if I wish that I had just told him to "get out" in January of 2012. I first pointed out that I did tell him to get out. I also said that it was my "forcing" that issue that broke the hold that his adultery had on him. He saw that, and knew it was true. (So now I am "forcing" more change of character!) Then I pointed out that his even asking that question was from his m/s issues, and I didn't ever want to hear the question again. It is not the first time he has asked it or similar questions. I have already made it quite clear (and had 5-10 minutes earlier) that I want an OHM with him. So don't waste time questioning if I still want in or not, just change so I don't have a reason to not want in.

 

Why does every confrontation have to boil down to a "should I leave?" I know, m/s. Why can't we just discuss problems like adults, deal with it, and move on to an OHM. Oh yeah, that's arrested development isn't it?! And then the passive guy crys out that it is too much work to change. Lord, help us!

 

I finally said I would go through this for one more thing (whatever point we were going over), and then that's it. Maybe it was when he was not validating me feelings - I think on the "picking a fight" with the day's texts (maybe, but I don't know). I do know I had to correct that my feelings ARE REAL. It may not be what he meant, but my feelings are my feelings, and they are real.  I am not supposed to have to do this. That is what this ministry is for. Let them teach you. Then I shut down.

 

I have cooled off some, so I will not call our son to come get us. At least that is my plan for now.

 

Breakfast this morning: PBJ. He started looking through the cabinets to find a skillet to fix his eggs. I said I had his breakfast fixed. Do you not want it? I will use the newly installed stove the first time fixing a meal for all of us, not just him. I will use it for supper. Very ironic here: he just texted to see if I have tried out the stove! lol

 

Teaching point: he could have made the making the bed all about me, but he got self-focused and ruined it. He could have made installing the stove all about me, but he got self-focused and ruined it. Normally I would be pleased that he made the bed. It did nothing for me. Normally I would be very excited - elated that he got the stove hooked up. I don't even care.

 

Attitude is EVERYTHING!!!!!!!

 

So texting about stove continues. This is pretty cool. We are having another LOVER apology lesson. He initiated the apology, but I am requesting him to go a bit deeper and define and validate my feelings.

 

Well, I see where forcing him to look at and address his issues are causing me to build my own character and personality along the way. As long as I stay focused on God, I will not focus on self and become resentful and bitter. Sometimes this is difficult to do. There are times that I feel that he resents me. For what???? Encouraging him to grow up? When I feel that resentment coming from him, I have to really watch the attitude I do things with. I know I have talked about this months ago on here. I understand that I am responding to him, but it is my attitude that I have to answer to God for....not his. So I find that if I feel like I would be doing something out of resentment, it is best I don't do it at all. PBJ anyone????

 

I am learning (or trying anyway) to not be an enabler. I see that I have enabled him to stay in his arrested state by not forcing him to move out of it. All the issues were there before the adultery. After all, that is why he wasn't "happy" and sought that "happiness" elsewhere only to learn that it wasn't there either. No, I am not taking responsibility for his actions. While the issues were there before, I didn't recognize it for what it was, and didn't know that I needed to or could do anything about it. I will not enable him to remain in that arrested state by being the congenial little wife that gives him a pat on the back and a smile for every self-motivated thing he does. I will, however, bless the socks (and more) off him for all the God/wife-motivated things he does.

 

Change happens when? When the pain of remaining the same is greater than the pain of change.

 

It is time for change!

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Yes, it is time...

 

 All the issues were there before the adultery. After all, that is why he wasn't "happy" and sought that "happiness" elsewhere only to learn that it wasn't there either. No, I am not taking responsibility for his actions. While the issues were there before, I didn't recognize it for what it was, and didn't know that I needed to or could do anything about it. I will not enable him to remain in that arrested state by being the congenial little wife that gives him a pat on the back and a smile for every self-motivated thing he does. I will, however, bless the socks (and more) off him for all the God/wife-motivated things he does.

 This is very good! Good job summarizing the problem!

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Thank you, 4evr.

 

It was quite interesting fixing a full meal using the stove/oven for supper last night. I about forgot what it was like! The apple pie received the most reviews. Unfortunately, my planning a meal to be on the table at 5:30 does not provide a hot meal being served at 6:30. I microwaved mine, everyone else chose to eat it cold. He did apologize for being late; I probably should address the LOVER apology on this rather than just "I'm sorry for being late." Part of his lateness is excusable because he went by the store for the vanilla ice cream to go with the pie. Thank you, J!

 

After supper, he and I went on a walk while the kids took care of the dishes....his suggestion.

 

I got on the call to listen. I wasn't about to speak up after the night before. Plus, I was very tired. In fact, I did doze off during the call. He was in the room with me....trying unsuccessfully to get on the forum while listening.

 

When he came to bed, he gave me a very nice apology about the excessive length of time it has taken him to get the stove installed. It was so nice that I hated to say anything, but....we had been over the LOVER apology need in texting earlier. So he knew what I would be expecting. He said he should have looked in his phone before coming to bed to see that again. I repeated for him, "I'm sorry I made you feel ______, when I _______." He did a wonderful job taking it from there. I knew he could do it!

 

I accepted his apology and pointed out that I really didn't have that much of a problem with not having the stove until all the other junk started happening. In fact, the only time I said anything about it (that I remember) is when he was complaining about grilling out.....which is something that he likes to do. (I do mean likes grilling although sometimes I think he likes complaining too.)

 

My biggest issue about the stove is that he put its installation above getting help on the call the other night. Therefore I felt that something that had not been important to him for almost 6 months was suddenly more important than our marriage. J, there is your LOVER apology material!!!!!

 

Over all, last night was a good night. My only issue was a cold supper which the microwave took care of. So another day/weekend ahead.

 

Tomorrow all but one of my siblings (he lives 100s of miles and several states away and is recovering from back surgery) will be at my mother's to celebrate her 86th birthday which was Wednesday. #1 son called me yesterday to let me know that I won by the flip of a coin. He had not planned on coming to her party due to the amount of schoolwork he has. #3 son was asking him if he was going. He hadn't decided for sure so he took a quarter out of his pocket and said the best 2 out of 3. The first 2 were in favor of his coming. So all of our children should be there even though college sons will only be there a couple of hours before going back.

 

I'm anticipating a good weekend.

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I'm glad you had a good night. :)

 

I wanted to address something from your earlier post . . .

 

Why does every confrontation have to boil down to a "should I leave?"

 

 

Other than m/s, there is a possibility . . . and I hope I'm wrong . . . that somewhere deep down inside of him he's hoping you will say yes.

 

Let's face it, J. is not putting nearly the amount of effort into this that he could be. I am not seeing I'm willing to do whatever it takes. I'm seeing I'm going to put in the minimum amount of effort here, and she should be happy with it. And then when you are not happy with it, you try to push him into doing more. When that doesn't work, you eventually get tired of living on crumbs and ask him to leave. Then he gets what he wants deep down inside, but he can avoid taking responsibility for the situation because he didn't make the decision to go.

 

This is exactly what my ex did, and what a lot of other men who have walked into this ministry have done. They lack the testicular fortitude to be honest and say that they are not going to do what the ministry teaches, so they go through the motions, doing as little as possible, until their wife can't take it anymore.

 

If you ask these guys, they will inisist that they are doing all they can, because the thing they are afraid of more than anything else is taking a good, hard look at themselves. They protect themselves at all costs, and examining their character and realizing it sucks is not on the list of things that make them feel warm and fuzzy inside. Instead of going to God for help and direction, they are afraid of Him. Instead of accepting teaching from the people in this ministry, they feel attacked. Instead of being, they keep doing.

 

There are times that I feel that he resents me. For what???? Encouraging him to grow up?

 

 

I can promise beyond a shadow of a doubt that he resents you. He resents the fact that you are not allowing him to live in his safe, protected little world any longer. He resents what he sees as a never ending list of demands, and he resents the fact that you are holding him accountable for doing what he agreed to do. He resents the fact that he is "in trouble" so often, because it's easier to resent you than it is to deal with his m/s issues.

 

Every single man I have ever talked to in this ministry has eventually had to admit that he resented his wife. Some have dealt with it, and in doing so were finally able to see their wife as a helpmeet rather than a taskmaster. Some have not, and walked out of the ministry without ever healing their wife's heart.

 

As I said, I'm really hoping I'm wrong, but I've seen this before. Of course J. could change that attitude at any time, but that's up to him.

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Thank you, Looney.....I think! :|

 

That is a very grim thought. Right now, I am going to have to go with the idea that he does want this marriage, but the "proof is in the pudding." I think he got a pretty good picture painted for him the other night of his lack of following through with his promises from the intensive. August 11, 2012 I showed him on my computer a letter I had written to him where I laid out my needs which coincide with those promises. Last week, I came across a handwritten letter I had given him (November 4, 2012), a restatement of the August which is secured in my computer in a password protected file for which I have forgotten the password.  So the other night I read through the intensive promises and this handwritten letter. He sees that he has not followed through.

 

I believe he was going to post last night. At least he was trying to get on the forum but could not. It could be that he was just going to read.

 

In my heart, I do feel like he wants this marriage; he just doesn't know where to start. That is a lame excuse for me to state because we all know (himself included) that here is the place to start. I think he is just overwhelmed. That by no means let him off the hook. If I am wrong, I am wrong. I am not willing to set myself up for more destruction. He sees he has a LONG way to go. I am more than willing to be his helpmeet as long as he is actively pursuing improvement.

 

I am still very cautious and guarded. I see that I am going to have to be a LOT stricter on my requirements. That will either spur him on to greater heights and an OHM, or he will declare that he is not willing to do the work.

 

How much of "not doing" is from the passiveness, and how much is it from deep down "I want out?" Can it be a longstanding passiveness to the point of lack of motivation to do what I want to do and even know I should do. For example, I know I should do 30 minutes of aerobic exercise, I want to do it because I want the benefits of the exercise, but I am not motivated to get up and move because I am not used to doing it.

 

The other option is a deep-seated rebellion: I don't want to because I don't want this, and you are not going to make me.

 

On the surface, these two could look the same. The first can, however, have the light switch flip on finally to where they see and get enough gumption to do something about it. The second would tire of the game when forced to change and leave.

 

I don't know. I know he is doing a lot of dumb stuff that looks like he has no interest of being in this marriage. I am very confused.

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How much of "not doing" is from the passiveness, and how much is it from deep down "I want out?"

 

 

In all honesty, they are probably tied together.

 

If someone told me they had a million dollars with my name on it, I'd be all for it. I could certainly use a million dollars! It would take away a lot of the stress in my life and give me options I don't currently have. I'd be grabbing the car keys and asking where I had to go to pick it up.

 

Then the person tells me that there is a grueling physical and mental test that I must pass before I can get the money. I am assured that I am capable of passing it and that I will be given all of the knowledge I need in order to be successful. Small amounts of the money will be distributed as I reach certain places in the test. So I start out with the best of intentions, knowing it won't be easy but fully intending to finish the test and win the prize. I get to the first, or maybe the second, place where I get some of the money. Things are looking good.

 

Then it starts to get really hard. The mental puzzles seem impossible. My joints hurt. I am exhausted. I am still being told that the knowledge I need is available and that I am capable of getting through to the end, but at this point I'm not so sure. I start wondering if I really need a million dollars. After all, I've gotten some of the money. It's more than I had before. This is getting really uncomfortable, and taking what I've received so far and going back to my comfy couch is looking better and better. And the bottom line is that I wanted the million dollars only if whatever I had to do to get it didn't take more effort than I was willing to expend. I probably didn't know where my limits were when I started - I honestly believed I would go all the way - but the test pointed them out very clearly.

 

That's where guys are in this ministry, but it's even harder because that elusive thing called an OHM isn't concrete. Everyone knows what they could do with a million dollars. Most of these guys have a hard time envisioning an OHM, what it would look like, what it would feel like. They are chasing a prize that they have been told is there, but they have no experience with it, and going after it is pretty painful. When they lack internal motivation, the only motivation they have is what their wife is applying externally, and that's usually not enough to keep them going. The couch doesn't look so bad after all.

 

Does J. really want to leave? I doubt it. I think he would be perfectly happy to stay with you forever, as long as you were willing to accept what he is willing to give you. But when the requirements for staying start stretching him, he has to make a decision about whether or not he is willing to stay and grow. If growing takes more effort, or causes more pain, than he is willing to deal with, then being on his own starts looking good. Then he can live in his own little world, and no one will challenge him or expect him to move beyond his comfort zone.

 

So I said all of that to say that the non-Christlike, learned passivity makes him more likely to fear and resist the growth. When you start requiring him to grow past wherever he has decided to stop, he begins to genuinely want out.

 

I was talking to Steve a little earlier - he is encouraging you to get tough on J. Draw your line and walk away. Either J. will move to your side of the line, or he won't. There's no point in dragging this out any longer. Force him to make a decision.

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OK.. I don't know what I am doing here with the cut and paste... LOL

 

But I just wanted to jump in here and add something... This one short paragraph is so-o good! This sums it all up. And here's what i want to say: The call and sacrament (using a Catholic word!) of marriage is that we grow up together; grow closer to God.  The deception is that we would fall in love, be happy forever after and never have to change because after all, we should just accept each other the way we are. Isn't that what non-judgmental true love is all about, right?

 

My point is this: It is not just this ministry and the pursuit of an OHM that is the choice. And the pursuit of a healthy marriage is not just for those who have committed adultery or been unfaithful or abusive- (which is probably all of us, anyway!) If we call ourselves Christian and we make a covenant to be married, we are called to what this ministry states and teaches. If we don't want to allow God to work with us in Covenant grace, then perhaps we misunderstood what marriage was all about?

Does J. really want to leave? I doubt it. I think he would be perfectly happy to stay with you forever, as long as you were willing to accept what he is willing to give you. But when the requirements for staying start stretching him, he has to make a decision about whether or not he is willing to stay and grow. If growing takes more effort, or causes more pain, than he is willing to deal with, then being on his own starts looking good. Then he can live in his own little world, and no one will challenge him or expect him to move beyond his comfort zone.
 
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Thank you, Looney.....and 4evr.

 

This really is a journey for both of us to be on isn't it?! Growing together. That is what it is all about. Not growing to just make each other happy, but growing to be more like Christ in ALL that we ARE.

 

It is time to get tough with the enemy that wants to keep us away from all that God has for us. It is time to get tough on every one of his devices that he is using.....M/S, A/D, P-A. We can beat this.....but J HAS to be the initiator!

 

Thank you both for your powerful words.

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I agree wholeheartedly, MJ.

 

This thought came to me yesterday. I pondered on it some and got busy with my day. It has come to me again, so I will put it out here.

 

I will start with I don't know that J is getting emails with my post anymore, so he may never see any of this anymore.

 

My thought was that he has ended his different affairs when he started to feel like there was an emotional tie, and that scared him. Some were of the "one night stand variety" so do not count in this thought. His last one was 17-18 months long, and God and I had to fight "tooth and nail" to get him out of it. Although he had been trying to get out of it for some time, she just kept sucking him back into the pit. He was not strong enough to take his stand against her and for me. The crust of bread?

 

In the beginning of discovery, or maybe right before, he said to me that he didn't know what love is anymore. GOD is love!!!!!!

 

It kind of bothers me that the other night he basically said the same thing. He's not sure that he knows what love is. Then he questioned if he has just been lusting after me rather than loving me.

 

We have now been together for 21 months since his last AP. Is he treating me like his affairs? He is starting to get an emotional tie so in his head it is time to move on?

 

Our trip home last night was very nice. I think we both probably had anticipations for later. Sometimes I wish I would just keep my mouth shut. Anymore it seems like when I open it everything flies out the window.

 

We were sitting on our deck, snuggled on the swing, and talking about various things. Somehow we ended up on our marriage. All I asked was if he was committed to actively and diligently working on our marriage. He couldn't do that...or wouldn't do that. His "reason" is that he doesn't want to commit to something that he knows he will mess up on.

 

Did I ask for perfection? No! All I asked for was consistent work. He could not see that there is a difference here. I know he will mess up. Everyone does.....the "curse" of our humanity. When we make a committment to Christ, does He expect perfection from that point on? NO! He knows He has to help us mature in our walk with Him.

 

The discussion continued after getting in bed. I finally said if he was not able to commit to working on our marriage that one of us was in the wrong bed. Of course, that eventually brought out that his initial response was that he go back to the other house. He did recognize the arrested development in that thought and discarded it. Progress! But he did mention that he had the thought.

 

He doesn't understand how these issues are staring him in the face and he doesn't recognize them. I said that they were right then, and he needed to tell it "NO" and just do the right thing. He did eventually say that he is committed to working on our marriage....and then added that it did not come from the heart. It came from it is the right thing to do.

 

I pointed out that men change from the outside in. He needs to be persistent in doing the things because they are the right thing to do, and then one day they will drop down in his heart. I did tell him thank you for taking a stand for the right thing to do.

 

That was pretty much it for the night. I think the discussion took too much out of both of us.

 

He did say he opted to not get emails of my posts anymore.....so he is not put out with what I post?????

Edited by 1love
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 Sigh.

 

I'm sorry, but J. is talking in circles. He is trying to figure out how to say something that will make you happy without promising anything that he is not willing to do. He is letting fear rule his life, and he's not willing to push through it to heal your heart and your marriage.

 

Sometimes I wish I would just keep my mouth shut. Anymore it seems like when I open it everything flies out the window.

 

 

 

The fact that you feel like that speaks volumes. In other words, things are good as long as you say what J. wants to hear. When you upset his little apple cart, he throws a tantrum and it all goes south.

 

He has given up the affairs, but he hasn't replaced that with anything positive. It reminds me of the story in the bible about the guy who drove out the demon and swept the room clean, and then seven other demons moved in. If you don't fill that space with something good and Christlike, then you have simply swapped one negative behavior for seven others. He's not having an affair, but those deep seated issues - the ones that drove him to have the affair in the first place - haven't changed, and he doesn't seem to be interested in working on them.

 

The fact that he opted out of getting the email notifications on your thread tells me that he really isn't interested in hearing how you feel. Just sweep it under the rug and pretend it doesn't exist. Nice. :mad:

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What I am really hoping is that she will tell me how she feels instead of reading about it when I get to the forum. ;-)

We have a busy week planned working on us this week, we had time to talk and make plans as we were shopping this afternoon. ::clap

The book i am reading Paul Hegstom really spoke to her and it is really speaking to me so I think we will work through it together this week. ::love

Edited by passion4one
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What I am really hoping is that she will tell me how she feels instead of reading about it when I get to the forum.

 

 

I hope so too. Unfortunately your wife doesn't always feel safe telling you how she feels. In her last post, she said ~

 

Sometimes I wish I would just keep my mouth shut. Anymore it seems like when I open it everything flies out the window.

 

 

Obviously you need to keep working on controlling your defensiveness so that she is able to tell you how she feels. However, that's not going to happen overnight. If you refuse to read this thread and your wife doesn't feel safe telling you how she feels, then what? Are you going to believe that everything is OK because you're not hearing otherwise?

 

Read the thread.

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Wow! This seems to have been a very busy place. I wanted to post yesterday morning, but I really did not know that to say.

 

My mother's birthday party was very good. As J mentioned on his post, we were over there longer than he thought we would be. I concur. Our college guys were only going to be up a couple of hours. I wanted to wait until they left before leaving. The older of the two, you know, the one with the tighter schedule, was enjoying the time of visiting and could not pull himself away. Their two hour visit turned into 8 hours. It was all good visiting though so it's all good.

 

My problem with the day was that I felt that J did not want to be around me and did not want me around him. I am really surprised at looking at the pictures that I seemed to have a cheery countenance (at least to me). I did not feel it on the inside. I was very happy to be around all the family, but my insides were in great turmoil. At the time, it reminded me too much of feelings that I had before discovery. I say "at the time" to signify how prominent those feelings were to me. It is not that I have sat here thinking about what Saturday was like and come to that conclusion. It hit me then right square in the face.

 

Yesterday morning J was attempting to act like all was ok. Well, I wasn't feeling it. I told him that I didn't like the way I felt Saturday....that he didn't want to be around me. He didn't say anything about it. We went on to church.

 

When we got back, we went to the grocery store (actually made 4 different stops). We discussed the week's plans. We have a campout coming up this weekend that the boys really need to be at home so they can help get everything ready for. They have their schoolwork to do, and they didn't take their books home. The older one did take some of his home, but other one and daughter left it all. Our daughter's work is the biggest issue there; the boys will catch up just fine. She, on the other hand, will gladly take the excuse to not do her work. I emailed pictures of her work pages so she can do the work on paper and copy it into her books when she gets them. My struggle with whether to bring them or not though was that I feel like we need this time to really focus on some deep marriage work without the distraction of the children being here.

 

I told J that I felt like our marriage needs the time alone to really do some work. That does not just mean a lot of play time in bed. It means digging in and doing some work. He had been struggling with the decision on leaving them or bringing them, but when I said that, he said they were staying. On our way up last night, I said that we have to learn how to work on our marriage even with them here.

 

The tension was subsiding somewhat, and we had a pleasant trip up here. After getting the car unloaded and groceries put away, he came up behind me and was giving me a hug. I reminded him that Saturday was not a very good day for me concerning our relationship. I repeated that I felt like he didn't want to be around me. He said he thought I wouldn't want to be around him with the way he had been acting. After getting in bed, he gave me the most wonderful LOVER apology I could ask for. No prompting, no correcting that it needs this or that. He got it better than I would have even pointed out!!!!!!

 

We talked very little about the book (Broken Children, Grown-Up Pain) on the way up. He asked if my highlighting was for his benefit or mine. It was all stuff that had spoken to me. He is finding that a lot of the same places are speaking to him.....as his above post states. The sad/funny thing is that I read this book around December or January. He knew it was there (although he had probably forgotten about it). He helped me get through some of the things that surfaced through reading it. He picked it up Friday to start reading on the weekend. Well, the here and now is what matters concerning that.

 

Please keep us in your prayers (I know you do anyway) this week as we go through this time. My prayer is for God to open eyes and remove garbage. And replace it with His great love!!!

 

Looney, I have often thought about the sweeping the room clean after casting the demon out only to have it filled with 7 worse than itself. I have mentioned it here a couple of times I think. It is so important to fill that empty place with the right things after getting rid of the wrong junk.

 

I appreciate you! And everyone else here!

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Last night was quite different. A little while after he got home my mind went down into some very uncomfortable places. I was very quiet and withdrawn. I was mentally battling this on my own. I was busy washing supper prep dishes while he was cooking. I had already gotten veggies and chicken prepared to make stirfry. It just had to be cooked. He asked me if he had done something wrong. I said "No" and went on washing dishes. When we sat down to eat, he apologized for putting me through everything. He said he didn't know what was bothering me, but he knew something was. Then he prayed over our meal, and we ate.

 

While I was washing dishes, he sat at the counter and talked for awhile. Then he went to the living room. I finished washing and then dried and put away the dishes. My mind was still not in a good place.

 

I went in and sat on the couch by J. He again asked what was wrong. So I told him. I told him I felt I was not good enough for him. What ensued was so beautiful. He pulled one of my numbers. Last Wednesday night I had him repeat some things after me....positive confessions. So he was having me repeat such phrases as "I am more than good enough for my husband," "I am very beautiful to my husband," etc. We talked about where the thoughts came from etc. I was now back in a good place.

 

Then we were discussing some in the book. He asked how is one able to retrain the mind to not react in the negative ways (my paraphrase). I asked him what he just had me do a little bit before. Positive confessions. This should be spoken out loud so that our ears hear rather than just thinking silently. Faith cometh by HEARING, and HEARING by the Word of God. Take every thought captive to the obedience of Jesus Christ. Think on these things: true, honest, just, pure, lovely, of good report. To me this was a very good discussion time. Perhaps the first "character building" discussion we have ever had. I talked about "making life happen" vs. "allowing life to happen" or "pro-active" vs. "reactionary."

 

I said that I felt all the tension of the last few weeks is gone. I feel like he is a totally different person than he was last week...and that is a good thing! It had been like Mr. Hyde was lurking around trying to beat the door down.

 

When heading to bed, I brought up the feeling of resentment. He said that he had been resenting me because of all of the corrections. I don't remember if he said that is all gone now or not. At any rate, he does NOT want me to stop. He does not want to be the person he has been anymore.

 

I also pointed out that in the same way that an alcoholic cannot have one drop of alcohol because it sends them over the edge again, a recovering sex addict cannot have any form of non-spouse sex contact because it will send them over the edge and down the slippery slope. No other women (or men as the specific case may be) either physical or emotional, no porn, and no SG. I should qualify this that no man or woman should be engaged in that behavior at any time, but especially a recovering addict.

 

This book has been a real eye-opener for him, and we are only on chapter 2. He now sees he has a choice. He can choose to be who he wants to be rather than accepting the "who he has been."

 

Wow! God is good!

Edited by 1love
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Hi 1love,

 

It sure sounds like things are turning around.  I can so relate to some of the things that you posted about feeling... not feeling good enough.  I am struggling with that now, but am working on it.  It is so frustrating that our husbands don't make it a priority to turn those messages around!  Why would they allow those thoughts to be in our minds for even one day, if they truly understood the depth of the pain and damage they cause.

 

Sorry, I am just venting and sharing instead of saying much to encourage you.  But I just wanted to let you know that I can relate and that I am VERY happy that your husband is turning those messages around!!  Hope things are still going good for you!!

 

Hope to hear an update soon!!

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Thanks, Eeyore. It is very encouraging to me to know that 1) I am not alone, and 2) that a setback does not have to last forever. With all you guys have gone through and gotten to the place you are today, there is hope for the rest of us to make it too.

 

We were listening on the call last night when the topic was the "defensiveness" that guys go through and how it makes the wives feel. I can totally relate to that. When J starts defending his actions, it just hits really wrong. It really struck a chord with me how it is not necessarily the current infraction that is the problem; it is the underlying character issue that is the problem. In last night's call, it was not that the husband did not make the call about arrangements for the dog; it was that he did not follow through with doing what he said he would do.

 

Do you suppose that is one of the deceits of our enemy? If the devil can keep up focusing on the "event" rather than the character issue, we will go all through life "living" (or crying) from one event to the next rather than dealing with the character issue and not have the problems arise anymore. Kind of like living from check to check and never getting ahead.

 

Last weekend we had a really good campout....for the most part. There were times that I just really felt alone. I shared on the Monday night call about going out in the woods and having a talk with God about why the husband has to be the source of life and strength for the wife. Sometimes it just doesn't seem right to me. That is not to say that I don't believe it. It just isn't fair. Why should I have to feel like I am up against a brick wall just because my husband doesn't provide that lifeline to God for me? I know it's true. I've been in that position far too many times. How are wives supposed to get husbands to understand the highly important role that they play in the wife's relationship with God?

 

Yesterday was entirely too long. J had to be at work at 5am. I needed the car to be able to meet #2 daughter for her doctor's appointment. So I took J to work and came back.....to get back in bed. I was pleasantly surprised to find that the bed was made. No, it wasn't exactly how I do it. But it was done. All without a word. It didn't stop me from crawling back in for another hour or so. And when I got up.....I put it back the way J had made it. I told him last night how pleased I was with his efforts.

 

The doctor's appointment was ridiculously long. We were still in the waiting room at the time that I needed to leave town to be able to pick J up from work, and I still had to go pick up the children at my mother's and make it to Wal-mart. Fortunately, J found a ride home. He also fixed supper at my request so it was basically ready when we got home. That was really nice. I was so wiped out that I even let the dishes wait until this morning.

 

Daughter is likely looking at carpal tunnel surgery right before Christmas.

 

Today has been a struggle for me. I really don't know what is wrong. I guess I just feel like I am up against that wall again. I could very easily go secure myself in our bedroom with books and computer, but that doesn't work with the children here with schoolwork to do.

 

J said he was going to make pizza for supper. I have all of the toppings ready for him. I will make a salad while he is making pizza. It will be nice to spend the time together in the kitchen. He should be getting off work now so should be home soon.

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There were times that I just really felt alone. I shared on the Monday night call about going out in the woods and having a talk with God about why the husband has to be the source of life and strength for the wife. Sometimes it just doesn't seem right to me. That is not to say that I don't believe it. It just isn't fair. Why should I have to feel like I am up against a brick wall just because my husband doesn't provide that lifeline to God for me? I know it's true. I've been in that position far too many times. How are wives supposed to get husbands to understand the highly important role that they play in the wife's relationship with God?

 

Remember that this is the ideal... we all fall short and God's grace is sufficient... In God's perfect plan - when things are perfectly aligned.. the husband is the conduit for multiplied blessings of life and protection from death- as he submits to the Lord. The wife then responds and multiplies the life he gives to her in an increased way back to him. Think of the analogy of a husband fertilizing the egg. It is his seed of life that starts things and then they grow and multiply bringing back blessing to him and everyone.

 

But here's the important part... you can go to God and receive life straight from God.. you don't have to wait for J to get it right and then feel cut off from God or alone if he doesn't. That's (in my opinion) a slight deviation from the truth. Yes, the very best is when it comes from God through J to you. Then you both get to soak in the goodness of God. And it's true that when the husband is struggling or rebelling those things affect the wife and the whole household. but you are never cut off from God because J is not where he's supposed to be!

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Yes, to what 4evr said!

I think it's Emotional life and strength that the husband has such an effect on. Which, of course, can easily affect our spiritual health. The emotional and spiritual are sometimes pretty hard to separate.

Before God a husband and a wife are definitely equal! Awareness of this fact has given me some of the strength I've needed for this journey.

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Thanks 4evr and MJ. I agree with what you are saying. I definitely have a relationship with God with or without J on board with that. However, when the three of us (God, J, and me) are together in that relationship it has such a greater dynamic than when it is just God and me. I don't know if that makes sense or not. It kind of makes it sound like J is greater than God, which, of course, he is not. Maybe it is more from the aspect of giving all of me to God. Since J and I are one, when he isn't on board with our intimate relationship with God, it is sort of like I am, unwillingly, holding back part of me from God.

 

I don't know. Maybe I'm just going crazy. That is what I feel like sometimes. I just know that when J is actively bringing the Word to me and to our family that I have such a greater peace than when he is not. I don't know when he last brought the Word to us....a month??? more???? It had been almost a nightly thing right after supper a year or so ago, but little by little he slacked off. It was easy for me to get in touch with God then. Now it is not.

 

I remember attending a homeschooling convention years ago, and the speaker said that it was the dad's place to lead in family devotions. If he doesn't do that the wife should NOT pick up the slack and do it. While I agree that it is the dad's place I do not agree that the wife should not pick up the slack if he doesn't. Why should we go without? It certainly is better though if the dad does take the lead here.

 

So what is taking the lead? In my opinion, that does not necessarily mean that dad has to always be the speaker. It simply means that he is to be the one "calling everyone together" or setting the time that we will do this. Yes, it is good when he is the speaker, and I think he probably should be most of the time. However, it is good training for the children to bring the Word to the family also. I like the idea of passing the speaking role around to everyone, but the dad needs to be involved in all those times.

 

The children and the wife need to see through his example that this is something that is very important to do. If it isn't important to him, then it won't be very long before it won't be important to anyone else in the family either. Thus the instruction in Deuteronomy 6:6-9. Verse 7 saying "And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children....." This was God's instructions given to the MEN of Israel.

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So what does it mean to have an intimate relationship?

 

Adjective: intimate

 

    1. closely acquainted; familiar, close

 

        synonyms: close, bosom, dear, cherished, faithful, devoted, fast, firm, familiar

 

    2. private and personal 

 

        synonyms: private, personal, confidential, secret

 

Why does it seem that guys are stuck on the idea of an intimate relationship is all about sex? We are supposed to have an intimate relationship with God, and that certainly is not about sex.

 

I desire an intimate relationship with my husband. I want us to talk. I want us to share thoughts and ideas. I want us to do fun things together. I want us to spend time together. And, yes, I want us to make love together.

 

But an intimate relationship has to be about so much more than the physical act of sex.

 
It is too well proven that a guy can have sex without relationship. It is merely a physical act. That is what the male dogs roaming the neighborhood do. God made man higher than the animals. God made man to have relationship. God made man to have relationship with Him and with each other.
 
I desire a very intimate relationship with my husband.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

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Nope, you're not crazy! It's what your heart desires: a fully complete intimate relationship: spiritual, physical and emotional.  Your desire is what's driving your marriage in the right direction. That desire isn't connected in your husband's heart and head yet.  

Spiritually intimate means he shares your desire for spiritual growth in all your family.  FD never led family devotionals when we homeschooled, but that didn't stop us from having homeschool devotions with just me and the kids.  Not ideal, but they learned how to experience group devotions.  Family devotions led by the wife would mean the wife/mom initiates getting the husband involved. The kids should ideally see him internally motivated, not prodded by his wife.  I think that would do more harm than good.  If we were homeschooling now, I would privately and frequently suggest that he initiate calling the family together for devotions on a regular schedule.  If he wouldn't do it for whatever reason, whether forgetful or lazy then I would go ahead and keep doing homeschool devotions without him.

Intimacy involves physical and emotional always.  If it's just sexual/physical then it's not intimate. The helpmeet of a passive guy has the lovely job of retraining the synapses in her husband's brain so that he can un-learn his concept that intimacy is sexual/physical.  FD and I are in the process now of breaking his bondage to that lie.  It involves lots of cuddling that doesn't lead to sex, foot rubs, back rubs and him listening to my feelings during those times.  We try to do intimate things, talking and cuddling in our bed in addition to and separate from our sex life...it's a beginning step in the process of drawing the emotional and physical together. 

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Thank you, Crystal. You have given me much food for thought.

 

I like the idea of emotional intimacy in bed that does not lead to the physical intimacy. We usually are not very successful in that process. I never realized that it is a way to break that bondage.

 

Thanks too for letting me know I am not crazy. Sometimes I think maybe I just want/expect too much, but I know in my heart that it is not true.

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