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I had a phone conversation with #1 son. He told me the time schedule for his and #1 daughter's graduations, etc. I thanked him for telling me as I hadn't been informed of anything other than both graduations being on the same day in two different cities. "Yeah, sister says y'all never talk unless you are wanting her to pick up something or have a medical question." We didn't stay on the phone much longer.

 

That really hurt! Remember this is the daughter that did not tell us for two weeks or so that she had broken up with her gentleman friend.......because we didn't ask about them. Now we are not getting graduation details because we didn't ask! Really???? The thing is, I had asked more than once. The answer was always the same, she didn't have the info yet. So I said to let me know when she found out.

 

So 3-1/2 weeks before graduation son tells me when daughter's graduation is. In telling J about the ordeal, I questioned about our nephew that had just gotten married in August. What if they didn't send out invitations? What if they didn't let everyone know the time, date, and location? Is it up to their "guestlist" people to contact them for the details? NO!!!!! And how would the guestlist people know that they needed to call to find out the info? It is ludicrous.

 

Then (I believe just a day or two after this conversation with son) J and I met at daughter's for him to take me out for my birthday. #2 daughter was going over for orchestra practice, and I rode with her. She would usually have supper with #1 before going to practice. We got to her house, she greeted sister, took sister's thermos to fill with hot tea.......never said a word to me whatsoever. It was not just my imagination; #2 noticed it as well, along with all the other slights of my being there. I finally told her "hi" before J and I left. She had finally spoken to me before that: asked if I wanted anything to eat as they were eating -- she knew I was being taken out for supper. She even asked if I was okay as I was just sitting on the couch in the living room (adjoining the dining room where they were). I said I just didn't feel very well. She noticed when we were leaving that I looked considerably worse than I did when I arrived there.

 

No warm, fuzzy feelings there!

 

That was Nov. 21. Nov. 24 was to be J's family Thanksgiving dinner. We had tried to plan when to have a combined birthday party for #1 & 3 sons and myself for the 23rd. #1 daughter already had supper plans so we scheduled it for the 30th. Not an issue. The children at home wanted to do something just for me on the 23rd anyway. J let #3 son know that porkchops were to be ready at whatever time it was (6pm?). We knew that the 2 sons were traveling together. Not wanting to disturb #1 son's studying, I think was the reason, he did not call him and tell him about the porkchops.

 

It was a crazy mess, and I was ready to move to Alaska to get away from everyone! #1 son calls later in the day and said he was going to sister's, they were going for pizza and that he was told we had been invited too. J had spoken with sil earlier in the afternoon and found out about the pizza outing and was asked if we were going to be there. It was the first we had heard anything about it. Yet, that is the supper plans that daughter had preventing the party on that day. So it had been scheduled for at least a week.

 

I don't know who set it up. It doesn't matter. While we were eating supper, #1 daughter called #2 daughter to see if we were coming over. Well, no! We are having a "birthday party," which, of course, did not go over well. #1 was then upset because she felt badly for missing her mother's birthday party. Not exactly! The "big party" was still for the 30th. #4 son had simply wanted to make a birthday cake for me to not have at the big party.

 

COMMUNICATION!!!!!!  Solves a world of problems!

 

Thanksgiving Day: prefaced with the fact that college sons came home together in younger one's truck on Tuesday night, and late Wednesday afternoon #1 son had told #3 to not ever let him come home with him again where he is dependent on someone else for transportation. Translated.... he is ready to leave the house and has no way to go.

 

We were to go to my sister's for dinner to be served at noon sharp so needed to be there by 11:30 (I was planning on 11) to help get things ready. We were just finishing breakfast. J suggested he leave early and go by to see his mother (had just seen her on Sunday for their family dinner) and take #1 son with him. They would meet us at my sister's. To say that it is on the way is not quite true. While, yes, it starts out the same direction; it adds about a 15 mile detour to form a triangle path rather than a straight line to sister's.

 

I expressed disapproval of his planned exodus. He pushed with the "Why not?" so I unloaded. You want to know why? I wasn't going to say in front of everyone, but if that is what you want I will. I told him, in front of the kids that were in the dining room, to go ahead and go. Abandon me just like you have for the last 32 years. Leave us to load everything and get over there and unload. Just go. We can handle it. We always have. You will get out there and be late for getting to dinner at noon.

 

I got up and took my dishes to the kitchen. He followed. He was just trying to get #1 son out of the house so he wouldn't start causing problems. I really don't think anything had come up yet, but I might not be remembering that detail. #1 son calls in from dining room that he doesn't see what the problem is; he wouldn't be late to the family dinner. He wants to see everyone there too. I went upstairs.

 

In talking later, perhaps when J got upstairs before we went to sister's - I don't remember - he was "offended" because I suggested that he would be late to dinner. HA! This is the guy who as far as I see is concerned about being on-time to one place and that is to work......and that only because he has to punch the timeclock. At his last job he didn't have to do that and didn't care about being late......because he always stayed late. This is the guy that has always been more or less willing (depending on how pressed for time we are in getting there - don't schedule things at noon on Sunday because we are in church, and don't call asking where we are because we will get there given enough travel time after church is out - his family has caused him much stress with that) to attend his family's functions but reluctant to attend my family's gatherings. They did not leave.

 

Maybe now that I have posted this he can gain understanding as to why I was so upset that day. He hadn't a clue even after I unloaded. I suggested that he might understand after I posted. So it has been awhile in coming, but here it is. It would have been here sooner except for the other trash that tore through my life.

 

Christmas Eve: I was in our room wrapping presents and had had phone conversation with J when he left work. I had needed him to stop by Walmart on the way home to get a couple of things for me. He did that and let me know he was leaving. I asked if he was coming home "now," and he affirmed that he was. Based on that he should be home in 30 minutes. #1 son got home from school, unloaded his gifts under the tree, and came in to our room. He hadn't been in there but 3 or 4 minutes when he said he knew he should have waited until others were home to talk to before coming home. Why? There had not been any cross words or anything. I was stunned. He then started in with his verbal attacks about #2 son, our church, the style of dress that #4 & 5 sons choose (which is quite classy if you ask me), homeschooling, my sticking up for all of the above-mentioned, and I don't remember all the rest if there was more.

 

He left to go to town to see somebody. I followed him outside. (He didn't say "bye") He said he would be back. I had one question: If your father was here, would you be talking like that? Yes, he would. And they have had conversations about it, and he agrees with me. We'll continue this when I get back. Well, he got back, and it was never brought up again.

 

I was very upset when he left to say the least. I really didn't notice the time but thought that J should be home any time now. I called to see how close he was. I needed some support. If I remember correctly, it had, in fact, been over an hour since he was leaving to come home.

 

What I got was an apology. I just left mom's. I didn't tell you I was going out there because I figured I would get chewed out for going to see her before going to see you. I hung up and threw the phone down on the bed.

 

Am I that wicked of a person that my husband and my eldest son hate me so????

 

Of course, when J got home he is on the defensive and apologizing for his own misdeeds and thinking I'm so upset because of him. He finally listened about son. "Well, I will talk with him about that!"

 

Somehow the sun seems to rise and set on J, and he can do no wrong. I am the bad guy!

 

Sometime in the aftermath of his trash coming out, he mentioned that he still hadn't talked to son about that and needs to do so. I questioned why. Why should son treat me a certain way (respect and honor) when J treats me the way he did? Which is worse? He saw what I meant.

 

Son has been traveling the states visiting relatives and should be home this weekend.

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ML is supposed to be a celebration of the special love that God has given to husband and wife for each other. It is not supposed to be used as a means to make one feel wanted.

 

 

I disagree.

 

Anything is OK regarding sex as long as 1) you are married to the person you are doing it with and 2) it is agreeable to both parties.

 

Sometimes sex really is just physical. Sometimes you just need it, and yeah - even though as a Christian woman you wouldn't actually do that - anyone with the right body parts would do.

 

Sometimes it's connection and deep intimate feelings and the halleluiah chorus.

 

And both of those . . . and everything in between . . . are OK.

 

I think that we often spiritualize sex to an extent that God never intended. Yes, it should be a celebration of the love between a husband and a wife, and when you look at the big picture, it is. However, it is also a physical act that creates a very specific phyIsical release that feels good and relieves stress. It is also very tied in with how a woman feels about herself, and sometimes we girls just need to know that our guy wants us.

 

There are no such things as wrong motives when having sex with your spouse unless you are doing something that makes them feel uncomfortable. I'm sure there have been times when J wanted to make love and you didn't really feel like it, but you did it anyway because he needed it. So what on earth would be wrong with him doing that for you?

 

Relax. It's really OK. Jump him whenever you need to. ;)

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I don't know that I understand it all yet.  And no I got the idea that there was no need for me to talk to my son about how he treated her although it is still on my list of things to do when the opportunity comes up.  I will say that things seem to be crazy with our oldest two children. 

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That's exactly the way it should be. After years of working in this ministry, I've come to believe that we are too easy on the passive guys. We are so afraid of shutting them down that we require very little. When they don't do what we've asked, we require even less. The end result is what you've experienced - dragging this out forever with very little change.

 

Stay strong. :)

 

Agreed.  I am one of those more passive guys that is manning-up  I don't want my insecurities and defensive behavior to stop my growth.  I really need to listen and then act on what my wife shares - NOT staying in a hurt place/shutting down.  Thank you ladies for raising the bar for us men - helping us to be more Christlike!  

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Looney, in most contexts I heartily agree with you; thus my desiring to ML 2 weeks ago because I needed to know that J still wanted me. But that is the difference in the other night. I know how he used all the other females in his sick world. I expect all of them were just looking for somebody to validate their need to be wanted .... by anyone and it didn't matter whose husband they had. On both sides of their fence they were all using each other. And it was a sick using.

 

I have never experienced the feelings I had the other night before. I could have very easily been one of those other females that was using anyone's husband to validate a need of being wanted. That was not acceptable to me. I hope and pray that I never have that feeling again.

 

Yes, I will JUMP J whenever I need to, but only if it is J that I need to jump and not when just anyone will do.

 

 

J, if we sit and wait for "opportunity" to come knocking at our door, it might just knock when we are snoozing. When it doesn't get an answer, it may just go on down the road to the next door. Sometimes we need to be pro-active and make things happen.

 

 

ChooseLove, thank you for the encouragement to keep the bar raised. There are times that it is really hard to do that. So many times it would be so much more "peaceful" to not push for change. I know the end result of not pushing though would be anything but "peaceful." God's blessings to you as you continue to grow for your wife and the Lord.

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Tuesday night J worked over some. He tried to contact me at 5, but I was on the phone with my sister. After getting off, I listened to the voice-mail he had left and then called him. He was working probably no later than 6:30 and would call when he leaves. I started supper accordingly, and it was ready shortly after 6:30. I called him at 6:39 since I had not heard from him yet. He was getting ready to leave and would be out within 5 minutes. OK. I chose to eat alone while the food was hot rather than wait for his 5 minutes and then the 15 min. drive home. He called at 6:58 and was leaving. I'm glad I didn't wait.

 

When he got home, he apologized for causing me to eat alone. Hey, I'm used to it! That is all I said about it.

 

After he ate and did his dishes, he started a discussion about what he had read in Broken Children, Grown-Up Pain. I really don't know what happened. He made some comment about some trim boards that I had the kids move to his side of the bed (I think maybe I told about that here, but maybe I didn't) because I needed them moved from where he had put them months ago with a "we will work on putting these up on weekends, and they won't be here long." They were not touched until I had the kids move them. He asked how I would feel if he had moved stuff to my side of the bed like that. I said something to the effect of, "If I had put them there and said they wouldn't be there long, if I had been requested several times that they be moved for decorating for Christmas and didn't do anything about it, I don't guess I would have anything to say about it."

 

So he picked up his pen and wrote on a piece of paper, "I am a lie from start to finish!"

 

I pointed out the behavior. It got worse. He started in on the overtime and paying bills. How is he supposed to get the money to pay the bills. I said the problem is that he has never turned everything over to God. He has to maintain control, like he can do a better job of it than God can! Just let go and let God.

 

Well, it went the way it always does. "I'm condemning him because he doesn't have that much faith." That is so old. It is a stupid lie of the devil, and he swallows it hook, line, and sinker.....and sinks us!

 

He's frustrated because he doesn't have time to get all the homework done like he said he would do.

 

I asked if he wanted to give everything to God. NO!

 

Well, what do I say now????? I asked if he was quitting. No, it's just hard to make the changes. No one ever said it would be easy.

 

Yesterday morning I rephrased my question to perhaps get across what I really meant.

 

Do you want to want to give everything to God. Yes. Maybe there is hope. Maybe.

 

God cannot bless what we do not give him control over. We tie his hands in our demanding to have control.

 

He seemed to suggest that God would bless our finances because I have given it over to Him even though J is not giving control to Him.

 

Then he tried to attack my faith in God.....why are you going to the chiropractor? God will heal you.

 

Our trip home after picking him up from work yesterday was anything but pleasant. I felt very condemned because I was using his precious hard earned money for medical help. He stopped going because he didn't want to pay the price. Yeah, and he complains about the issue(s) that would have been alleviated if he had kept going. I said if he was okay with my allowing nerve damage to the point of losing all feeling in my fingers then he had a problem.

 

I was driving, we got to the house, and I pulled in straight rather than backing into the drive. Why did you pull in like this instead of backing in? Because there was a car behind me! I felt like I was being attacked for parking the car. Usually he would go unlock the house so I wouldn't have to stand out in the cold and then come open my door. I opened my own door to expedite getting in (it was cold). I thought he was going to go unlock the house, and I went to the door and waited. I finally dug in my purse (scarey place) to find my keys to unlock the door while he put the trash container back away from trash pickup, got his lunch box out of the car, and got some things from the trunk that he had son to send up to him. Glad I had keys! I was in the house before the trunk was closed.

 

I went in to our bedroom, wrapped in a blanket (I was cold), and sat on my side of the bed facing the wall. I was wondering why I was even here. What is the point?

 

He came in and asked what I was doing there. Where else am I supposed to be? He apologized for the conversation on the way home. He apologized for making me feel like I wasn't important to him. I am important to him.

 

I went in and got on my computer to look something up. I was reading it when he came into the living room and suggested that I could take the computer to the kitchen where he was. I stayed where I was and finished reading.

 

I went to the kitchen to fix supper. He was at the counter with his books....and computer! I hesitated to say anything about the computer. I saw that it was turned on. It was showing the desktop if I recall correctly. He was not on-line. It didn't matter. We had an agreement that his computer would not be on unless I was sitting right there.....and it was on....period.

 

I was getting lines about the internet monitoring that is on his computer now so I would know where he had been; he had asked me to come join him (he never said he was getting on the computer); it wasn't even connecting for whatever reason he didn't know. As it turns out he had the wireless turned off. Duh!

 

I told him he was trying to minimize being on the computer. We had an agreement and turning the computer on without me there goes against that agreement.

 

I went to bed kind of early (9ish), and thought he would be there shortly. I wasn't going to sleep yet; I just needed to lie down. He came in and asked if I told him I was going to bed. He knows I didn't. He thought we could discuss the book some. I said we could do that and asked if he could bring it to bed. Well, he was tired too so he would just go to bed too. And that is just what he did.  I know he was probably just as tired as I was so don't blame him for going to bed rather than discussing any of the book. However, I did detect an attitude showing through with his proclamation of going to bed.

 

So I am questioning in my mind if he is really wanting to change or if he really just wants his secret life. There's a song out now, "I'm Worn" I think is the title, and it fits!

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Sadly, yes it does seem like he is not really putting forth the effort.. but also, in reading your post i see a pattern. He is responding to you instead of initiating.. and he is copying the way that you talk to him and it makes no sense. For example, I can see times in the past when you have tried to get a point across to him and used a line like: "How would you feel if the situation was reversed?" So he copied that and threw it back at you. Instead of addressing his irresponsibility.

 

Then his next "tool" (trick) was to write down "I am a lie from start to finish." Usually that just keeps the game going and elicits pity. Don't fall for it. I would have just said: "If you say so" and walked away.

 

Another thing I hear you doing is suggesting to him how to get from point A to point B. As in your suggestion that he just give everything over to God... You are right. That does need to happen. but it will happen in God's way and time. You should probably just stick to pointing out the problem and not offer any solutions. That is where he will start feeling controlled and begin rebelling. Hence he turned around and attacked your faith. It's logical to his arrested emotional state.

 

One more thing that seems apparent to me is that he is not so much rebelling against giving up the secret life as he is rebelling against giving up his identity as the breadwinner- which has enormous value and respect tied to it- especially in his own mind. In other words every bit of effort he expends working the program is precious time taken away from working or getting the sleep or relaxation he needs to keep working. When he gets stressed enough he goes looking for a de-stressor by finding attention from his secret contacts. It becomes a vicious circle for him.

 

And one last thing.. All these things i am telling you. I did them all wrong. I controlled, pitied, offered solutions etc.. Clearly it didn't work. I am not sure that I could do it right if put back in the situation. It's hard. But whatever you do, don't make the mistake of blaming yourself if you do fall short because anybody who is sick or having any kind of problem in life can get well if they really want to. This still all comes back to:

 

Does he really want to? And right now, it doesn't look like it.

Edited by 4evrHZdtr3
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Thank you 4evr. As I recall, I did not respond to the "I am a lie from start to finish." At least, I know for sure that I did not bite the hook and come to his defense. At one point, I think he asked what he was supposed to do. I gave no suggestions. I wasn't going to give him the directions. He knows. And if he doesn't he knows to get on his thread and on the calls.

 

I was on the phone at 5 this evening when I got his text saying that the printer is down and they are working on it. The other night we discussed how he is the "knight in shining armor" for the job to save them.....and get the accolades for doing so. I sit at home with nothing. The other night I questioned if it was something that someone else could have handled, or if it was something that would have waited until the next day. It was nothing life or death.

 

Well, here I am again. At what point does it get to be that the job is a support to the family rather than the family supporting the job? He just called. He doesn't plan on working past 7; it is now 5:51. OK. When is it ever thought to ASK me if it is ok that he work over rather than INFORMING me that this is the way it is?

 

I guess I will go find supper.....alone again.

 

I feel like I have been forced to sever relationship with our children to come up to this house for what? To eat alone! The kids really don't even acknowledge when I leave home anymore. He has reduced me to being a visitor in my own home.

 

He had commented within the last couple of weeks about none of us (kids and me) wanting to be up here. I questioned what he has given us to want to be here for........his illicit computer time? I also said that all I wanted was to be with him.....and this is what I get.

 

Do I like to be here? If our marriage was what it is supposed to be, I wouldn't care if we were living in a cardboard box in the parking lot at work.....just so we were together. Well, that might be a bit extreme, but you get the idea. But I am continually called upon to support his job, and it doesn't matter which job it is.

 

Correction, I am continually called upon to support his incorrect mindset of his work. There is nothing at all wrong with his job. He has a very good employer. He couldn't ask for a better job. Well, I might could. I might could ask for one that insisted that he put his wife first!

 

I think I've been here before.....it has nothing to do with the overtime! Maybe some year he will finally get that through his thick skull!

 

No, I am not a happy camper right now. I will not try to make a pretense that I am. Maybe someone else can knock some sense into his head because I am through trying. I haven't been able to get the task done for 32+ years. I obviously don't have what it takes.

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I know that you are angry.. and disappointed..:(      It's actually good that you are talking about this. I'm sorry for all you are going through. Sometimes jobs do claim more than their fair share but the attentive Christ-like husband who is listening to his wife's heart will find ways to make that up, to let her know of her priceless value to him.

 

As Christians we need to exchange our value system for God's. Gods ways are upside down to what we think they  should be.. as in "love your enemies"

 

I will say it again. My sense is that he is afraid he can't do both his job and his calling as husband. he can't see any way around that and so he is doing a poor job at working the program - and still trying to blame you. IF he understood that his value system.. his worth was not in his works.. not dependent upon his job performance.. then he might be able to approach this differently.

 

Try this prayer:

 

Father, I repent on behalf of my husband for not trusting you.. for not honoring you first.. for walking in fear.. and for not realizing that his worth is measured by the blood of your Son, Jesus... I ask that you would forgive him. (Then wait and let the Holy Spirit guide any additional repenting such as stubbornness, pride, etc..) After that, ask God to send his LIGHT to dispel the darkness over his soul (mind, will and emotions).. ask God to BREATHE on him to soften the stony places in his heart and to heal his will. Pray for the 'dunamis' power of Jesus Christ to heal everything about him and ask for God to give him a new opportunity to choose LIFE. Pray for a love encounter with the Living Christ!

 

THEN ask God what your response should be. I think some quiet detachment would be in order. Give back to him what he is giving to you... but NOT in a vengeful or bitter or complaining way... just quietly remove yourself and go about your life. Don't try to meet him or fix the situation. Let him figure it out. And keep praying for LIGHT and GLORY over his soul.

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4evr has saved me a ton of typing. I agree.

 

Personally, I'd just go back to the other house. He seems to prefer to spend all his time at work. Let him.

 

As I've said before, no one can make him do anything. All you can do is let him know what you will and will not accept. If he prefers to be on his own rather than give you what you need - well, it sucks, but it's his choice.

 

You deserve so much better than what he's giving you.

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His response to Thursday night's overtime was that: you said to give God control of the finances; He provided the overtime.

 

Yesterday I dropped him off at work and headed to my chiropractor appt. and to spend the day at my mother's with her and visiting out-of-state sister and bil. Some of our children were to be there as well. My sister and I were talking when I should have been leaving, and we continued talking. J called at one point, and I told him I was still there. I think I detected a bit of disappointment that I was not on my way to get him yet. I could be wrong. I told him God was providing him with more overtime. I'm bad; I know!

 

God's blessing! After my adjustment at chiro, I went to the desk to pay my bill for the day. I was pleasantly surprised to be told that they had finally heard from the insurance company. He is now a preferred provider with them so I have no deductible, and they pay 50% up to $25 per visit. I have already paid full price for 5 visits this year so I have a credit with them.....like 5 of my next 6 (including yesterday) visits are already paid for! I wondered after leaving if there is an adjusted fee since he is now a provider so maybe even the 6th one is already paid for or partially paid for anyway.

 

GOD IS SOOOO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

All of our children should be here today. Planning a very good dinner tonight.

 

Oh, J took me out for dinner last night. I said I didn't want to ever do that again. By the time he got off work, went to other house and packed up, and drove the hour towards home to where we were going to eat it was almost 10pm. While there (Fridays) a fight broke out and the police were called. Five officers came in. Two officers carried one guy out who kicked the door open on his way. It was rather un-nerving with all the shooting sprees that seem to go on in our world these days. We have been to that restaurant many times (generally my favorite place) and have never had that experience (actually never had it anywhere). While we were there, they didn't take anyone else out so perhaps there was only one "bad guy" and the rest involved were just trying to subdue him. We were sitting in a lower level with a partial wall that I could not see over. I could hear plenty though. It was not a pleasant experience.

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His response to Thursday night's overtime was that: you said to give God control of the finances; He provided the overtime.

 

 My sister and I were talking when I should have been leaving, and we continued talking. J called at one point, and I told him I was still there. I think I detected a bit of disappointment that I was not on my way to get him yet. I could be wrong. I told him God was providing him with more overtime. I'm bad; I know!

 

 

 Seems to me you gave him back just what he gave you! And that seems healthier to me. ;-)

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Saturday night did not go anywhere like I would have liked for it to. You know the struggles we have had with #1 son so I will not rehash them here. If you happened to be on last night's call you would have heard specifically about Saturday night. I will sum it up by saying that he was in the house, and we had about 30 seconds of conversation then he started verbally attacking me, accusing me of doing what I had not done. I called him on his abuse and went upstairs closing my door behind me.

 

We kind of scattered after supper. All the rest of the kids went to the living room and broke into two groups playing two different card games. Son and J were at the dining table going over some financial things. I joined them for awhile then went to the living room. I had no idea if son was staying the night, going to sister's, or what. After daughter left, I went upstairs. I needed some quiet time. I ended up going to sleep after having a conversation with #3 daughter. She, too, wondered what he was doing and had gone down and invited him to go to church with us.

 

I was awakened when J came to bed probably an hour or so later. Shortly afterward his phone rang. It was son, "You do know I left don't you?" They proceeded to talk for about an hour. Most of that was son laying the blame for everything wrong in our family on me. J did not let that stand, he took ownership of his not being the husband/father that he needed to be, and that has caused the problems. He always put work ahead of us. Son shot back that he hadn't done anything wrong, he respected J for all he has done. J said that he (J) didn't respect himself, and that he (J) was a fool.

 

Son would not hear any of it. J told him the most important thing in life is your relationship with God. Then son started going off on the Christians that tell everyone they are going to hell. He made a comment about going out in the dessert and praying to allah. He has some muslim friends, and I think was referring to what they do, and not that he has done that......but who knows.

 

He didn't like my texts of "wish you were here" or much of any of my texts. J pointed out that he sends the same kind of texts to him......yeah, well, not as many.

 

He supposedly was going to call #3 daughter and tell her why he wasn't here when she got up Sunday morning. He never did. He sent a text requesting that we tell her that he isn't wanted around here and always causes problems when he is around. It is better if he just stays away.

 

So I have finally written a letter to him. With your indulgence (again) I am posting this letter for your opinion before I send it to him. I have not put any names in, and do not intend to do so. This is the actual completed letter. I don't want to be "preachy" or "condemning," but I don't want to sweep anything under the rug either.

 

Thank you in advance for your input.

 

January 20, 2014

 

Dear Son,

 

I have been troubled in my spirit for a very long time concerning our relationship. Right now I don’t even know what I am going to say in this letter. I trust you will read it through and consider my words.

 

I love you very much. That is why it hurts so much to see you in so much turmoil. It seems to me that you are trying so hard to convince everyone that you are an adult, but it is you that needs to be convinced of that fact.

 

I accept you as an adult, but you keep insisting that I do not.

 

For whatever reason, you seem to be rejecting me and everything about me. That really is too bad for you and for me. You really don’t know me. You don’t know what all I have gone through and continue to go through. Yet you judge and condemn me.

 

I can already hear your denials to my statement.

 

You say I was “sniffing your clothes.” I will go to my grave with the assurance that I was not doing as you have accused. My summation of it is that you must have felt guilty for you actions and are trying to put the blame on me. I do not accept the blame for your actions.

 

As I have said many times, you answer to God for your actions and not what for what others have done. As you go through life you will make choices, some will be good and honorable choices, and others will be bad and harmful choices. Nonetheless, they are your choices, and you have to live with them. I do not judge you. I do not condemn you. God is the judge of mankind. I may not condone or approve of all of your choices, but they are your choices. It is your decision.

 

I see that you have made bad choices in your life, and you wonder if we still love you in spite of the bad choices. The answer to that is a great big YES. You have lied to me for many years. You fed me lines to give cover-up answers for the questions I would ask you concerning your activities. I knew in my heart that you were lying, but also in my heart I wanted to believe the best. It seems I have been bitten by concept many times over by more people than you.

 

I want you to know that I had been eagerly anticipating your coming home. I wanted to hear about your travels and the exciting things that you have been doing. What I got was about 30 seconds of talking about the personification of the coat rack, and then you lit into me.

 

I felt like leaving. I really considered driving off, let y’all have your party, and come home when it was all over. That would have been a childish response on my part. I would not allow myself to run away like that. I stayed to try to mend a severed relationship with my son that I feel hates my very existence. What I got was my adult son running away. Yes, I know you won’t like this, but that was a childish response.

 

You have some very serious issues that you need to get worked out. If you don’t, it will be the ruin of every relationship that you ever want to have. I know I have mentioned this before, and you have denied it, but it keeps showing through. You have a heart full of anger and bitterness. That will eat at your very existence.

 

I challenge you to read Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them: Breaking the Cycle of Physical and Emotional Abuse by Paul Hegstrom. It is a real eye-opener. Whether you care to admit it or not you do possess several of the abusive characteristics talked about in the book. The good news is that you don’t have to stay in that position. I have the book and you are welcome to borrow it.

 

You are always welcome in our home. Your abusive behavior is not. Your father’s abusive behavior is not welcomed here either. He has learned that he, too, has been an abusive man. I have put up with the abuse for too many years to be healthy for anyone. It has affected our entire family. My heart is still too fragile from his abuse. Besides that, it is not right to be expected to put up with any abuse. With God’s help, the abuse ends and we will grow into a healthy family. We are not there yet but are working towards that goal.

 

He has learned that he has allowed wounds and events from his childhood to negatively dictate his behavior. He is taking ownership of his issues and growing up past them. You have inappropriately placed him high on a pedestal. In all humility, he has told you that he has not been the man that he should have been. You have refused to hear that from him and even told him that he is wrong. He is not wrong. You would do well to listen to him and learn from his mistakes so that you don’t end up in the same boat that he has vacated as an unpleasant place to be.

 

If you have read the book that we gave you before, you would see that the husband is the initiator and the wife is the responder. When he tells you that he is the reason that we were so dysfunctional, he understands that. The husband sets the tone for the attitudes and behaviors of the household. Like it or not that is how it is.

 

Another good book by Paul Hegstrom is Broken Children, Grown-Up Pain: Understanding the Effects of Your Wounded Past. I have this one as well.

 

Jesus is the only way to the Father. You know that deep in your heart. A right relationship with God the Father through Jesus the Son is where you will find peace. This is also where you will find forgiveness.

 

I love you. We all do. It is a lie of the devil that tells you that we do not want you around. We do want you around. We all desire to have a healthy relationship with you. Your bitterness and anger issues are what prevent that from happening.

 

We will not spread that lie by telling it to your sister. Your requesting that we do so is a cowardly, manipulative form of abuse. You wanted us to tell your lie for you. That doesn’t work.

 

I love you. I am here for you. I always have been, and I always will be.

 

Give me a call if and when you want to talk. I would not want to offend you with my texts or calls, so the ball is in your court.

 

Love always,

 

Mother

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I heard you and your husband on the call last night. I'm glad. First of all, let me say, please get a second opinion (besides mine).

Wow! It's a great letter -- especially the last half! The first half may have a little too much defensiveness in it -- something like when a husband gets defensive with his wife. She is only trying to tell him how hurt she feels. She needs validation from him, not defensiveness. It keeps them as sparring partners.
Also, if this letter had been written to me from my mother, I would have felt she was lecturing me in that first part. It would have turned me off. I would not want to feel like her little child anymore.

Also, I think even when our children are still in their 20's, we mother's need to be careful we don't try to get them to "meet our emotional needs". Maybe in that first part of your letter you need to simply let your son know you understand how he feels. Don't even bother mentioning the sniffing thing. It was just a symptom of his basic problem anyway. I'm beginning to see, I think, that maybe OUR oldest son was most affected by our dysfunctional marriage. He is 30 and suddenly appears to be struggling emotionally and spiritually. (We have four children, all sons.)

I guess I'll copy your letter here and make my suggested changes. And remember, MY word is nowhere near final -- and -- I am writing this to myself as well as to you!

January 20, 2014



Dear Son,



I have been troubled in my spirit for a very long time concerning our relationship. Right now I don’t even know what I am going to say in this letter. I trust you will read it through and consider my words.



I love you very much. That is why it hurts so much
It's very hard to see you, my son, in such turmoil as you demonstrated the other day. It seems to me that you are trying so hard to convince everyone that you are an adult, but it is you that needs to be convinced of that fact.

I am so sorry over and over again for the fact that your childhood was not entirely emotionally healthy. May God forgive us! (or something along that line)

I accept you as an adult, but you keep insisting that I do not.


For whatever reason, you seem to be rejecting me and everything about me. That really is too bad for you and for me. You really don’t know me. You don’t know what all I have gone through and continue to go through. Yet you judge and condemn me.



I can already hear your denials to my statement.



You say I was “sniffing your clothes.” I will go to my grave with the assurance that I was not doing as you have accused. My summation of it is that must have felt guilty for your actions and are trying to put the blame on me. I do not accept the blame for your actions.




As I have said many times, you answer to God for your actions and not what for what others have done. As you go through life you will make choices, some will be good and honorable choices, and others will be bad and harmful choices. Nonetheless, they are your choices, and you have to live with them. I do not judge you. I do not condemn you. God is the judge of mankind. I may not condone or approve of all of your choices, but they are your choices. It is your decision. (I, MJ, have the feeling when someone says, "I don't condemn you" they have already done it but are trying not to.)



I see that you have made bad choices in your life, and you wonder if we still love you in spite of the bad choices. The answer to that is a great big YES. You have lied to me for many years. You fed me lines to give cover-up answers for the questions I would ask you concerning your activities. I knew in my heart that you were lying, but also in my heart I wanted to believe the best. It seems I have been bitten by concept many times over by more people than you.




I want you to know that I had been eagerly anticipating your coming home. I wanted to hear about your travels and the exciting things that you have been doing. What happened was we had I got about 30 seconds of talking about the personification of the coat rack, and then you lit into me.



I felt like leaving. I really considered driving off, let y’all have your party, and come home when it was all over. That would have been a childish response on my part. I would not allow myself to run away like that. I stayed to try to mend a severed relationship with my son that who I feel hates my very existence. What I got happened was my adult son ran away. Yes, I know you won’t like this, but that was a childish response.



You have some very serious issues that you need to get worked out. If you don’t, it will be the ruin of every relationship that you ever want to have. I know I have mentioned this before, and you have denied it, but it keeps showing through. You have a heart full of anger and bitterness. That will eat at your very existence.



I challenge you to read Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them: Breaking the Cycle of Physical and Emotional Abuse by Paul Hegstrom. It is a real eye-opener. Whether you care to admit it or not you do possess several of the abusive characteristics talked about in the book. The good news is that you don’t have to stay in that position. I have the book and you are welcome to borrow it.



You are always welcome in our home. Your abusive behavior is not. Your father’s abusive behavior is not welcomed here either. He has learned that he, too, has been an abusive man. I have put up with the abuse for too many years to be healthy for anyone. It has affected our entire family. My heart is still too fragile from his abuse. Besides that, it is not right to be expected to put up with any abuse. With God’s help, the abuse ends and we will grow into a healthy family. We are not there yet but are working towards that goal.



He (or, Your father) has learned that he has allowed wounds and events from his childhood to negatively dictate his behavior. He is taking ownership of his issues and growing up past them. You have inappropriately placed him high on a pedestal. In all humility, he has told you that he has not been the man that he should have been. You have refused to hear that from him and even told him that he is wrong. He is not wrong. You would do well to listen to him and learn from his mistakes so that you don’t end up in the same boat that he has vacated as an unpleasant place to be.



If you have read the book that we gave you before, you would see that the husband is the initiator and the wife is the responder. When he tells you that he is the reason that we were so dysfunctional, he understands that. The husband sets the tone for the attitudes and behaviors of the household. Like it or not that is how it is.



Another good book by Paul Hegstrom is Broken Children, Grown-Up Pain: Understanding the Effects of Your Wounded Past. I have this one as well.



Jesus is the only way to the Father. You know that deep in your heart. A right relationship with God the Father through Jesus the Son is where you will find peace. This is also where you will find forgiveness.



I love you. We all do. It is a lie of the devil that tells you that we do not want you around. We do want you around. We all desire to have a healthy relationship with you. Your bitterness and anger issues are what prevent that from happening.



We will not spread that lie by telling it to your sister. Your requesting that we do so is a cowardly, manipulative form of abuse. You wanted us to tell your lie for you. That doesn’t work.



I love you. I am here for you. I always have been, and I always will be.



Give me a call if and when you want to talk. I would not want to offend you with my texts or calls, so the ball is in your court.



Love always,



Mother


I love all the rest of this letter! In my opinion it’s “coming from a position of strength” as Kathy says. That is, the tone and content is firm but fair – just right for a 26-year-old son to glean wisdom from!

Please do as you see fit, 1 love. This was how I saw it. I don’t know your situation like you do. God bless you lots.

Father God, thank You that You are guiding 1love step by step, according to Your Divine Love.

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I agree. The first half of the letter as you had written it is pretty much guaranteed to make him defensive, and then he won't hear the rest of what you have to say.

 

In general, you are best to stick to I statements . . . I felt, I heard, I needed, etc. Angry, abusive men who are not ready for change are very sensitive to feeling like they're being attacked. I'm not saying that you shouldn't say what needs to be said, but if at all possible, present it in such a way that he is not going to feel the need to defend himself. That is your best shot at getting him to listen.

 

I'm going to suggest a few other changes, so I'll copy MJ's version.

 

I also think that bringing J. into it is a very good idea. This should not just come from his "crazy mom," but also from the dad he idolizes.

 

Dear Son,


I have been troubled in my spirit for a very long time concerning our relationship. Right now I don’t even know what I am going to say in this letter. I trust you will read it through and consider my words.



I love you very much. That is why it hurts so much
It's very hard to see you, my son, in such turmoil as you demonstrated the other day. It seems to me that you are trying so hard to convince everyone that you are an adult, but it is you that needs to be convinced of that fact.

I am so sorry over and over again for the fact that your childhood was not entirely emotionally healthy. May God forgive us! (or something along that line)

I accept you as an adult, but you keep insisting that I do not.


For whatever reason, you seem to be rejecting me and everything about me. That really is too bad for you and for me. You really don’t know me. You don’t know what all I have gone through and continue to go through. Yet you judge and condemn me.



I can already hear your denials to my statement.



You say I was “sniffing your clothes.” I will go to my grave with the assurance that I was not doing as you have accused. My summation of it is that must have felt guilty for your actions and are trying to put the blame on me. I do not accept the blame for your actions.




As I have said many times, you answer to God for your actions and not what for what others have done. As you go through life you will make choices, some will be good and honorable choices, and others will be bad and harmful choices. Nonetheless, they are your choices, and you have to live with them. I do not judge you. I do not condemn you. God is the judge of mankind. I may not condone or approve of all of your choices, but they are your choices. It is your decision. (I, MJ, have the feeling when someone says, "I don't condemn you" they have already done it but are trying not to.)



I see that you have made bad choices in your life, and you wonder if we still love you in spite of the bad choices. The answer to that is a great big YES. You have lied to me for many years. You fed me lines to give cover-up answers for the questions I would ask you concerning your activities. I knew in my heart that you were lying, but also in my heart I wanted to believe the best. It seems I have been bitten by concept many times over by more people than you.




I want you to know that I had been eagerly anticipating your coming home. I wanted to hear about your travels and the exciting things that you have been doing. What happened was we had I got about 30 seconds of talking about the personification of the coat rack, and then you lit into me.
I felt attacked.

I felt like leaving. I really considered driving off, let y’all have your party, and come home when it was all over. That would have been a childish response on my part. I would not allow myself to run away like that. I stayed to try to mend a severed relationship with my son that who I feel hates my very existence. What I got happened was my adult son ran away. Yes, I know you won’t like this, but that was a childish response.



You have Your father and I both see some very serious issues that you need  to get worked out we hope you will choose to work out.  If you don’t choose not to, it they will be the ruin of every relationship that you ever want to have. I know I have mentioned this before, and you have denied it, but it keeps showing through. You have We see a heart full of anger and bitterness. That will eat at your very existence.



I challenge you to read Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them: Breaking the Cycle of Physical and Emotional Abuse by Paul Hegstrom. It is a real eye-opener. Whether you care to admit it or not you do possess several of the abusive characteristics talked about in the book. Your dad and I see in you several of the abusive characteristics talked about in the book.The good news is that you don’t have to stay in that position. I have the book and you are welcome to borrow it.



You are always welcome in our home. Your abusive behavior is not. Your father’s abusive behavior is not welcomed here either. He has learned that he, too, has been an abusive man. I have put up with the abuse for too many years to be healthy for anyone. It has affected our entire family. My heart is still too fragile from his abuse. Besides that, it is not right to be expected to put up with any abuse. With God’s help, the abuse ends and we will grow into a healthy family. We are not there yet but are working towards that goal. Your behavior is your choice, but if you choose to abuse me or your siblings, you will be asked to leave.



He (or, Your father) has learned that he has allowed wounds and events from his childhood to negatively dictate his behavior. He is taking ownership of his issues and growing up past them. You have inappropriately placed him high on a pedestal. In all humility, he has told you that he has not been the man that he should have been. You have refused to hear that from him and even told him that he is wrong. He is not wrong. You would do well to listen to him and learn from his mistakes so that you don’t end up in the same boat that he has vacated as an unpleasant place to be.



If you have read The book that we gave you before, you would see  explains that the husband is the initiator and the wife is the responder. When he your father tells you that he is the reason that we were so dysfunctional, he understands that. The husband sets the tone for the attitudes and behaviors of the household. Like it or not that is how it is. This is not my idea or your father's idea, but the way God designed marriage to be.



Another good book by Paul Hegstrom is Broken Children, Grown-Up Pain: Understanding the Effects of Your Wounded Past. I have this one as well.



Jesus is the only way to the Father. You know that deep in your heart. A right relationship with God the Father through Jesus the Son is where you will find peace. This is also where you will find forgiveness.



I love you. We all do. It is a lie of the devil that tells you that we do not want you around. We do want you around. We all desire to have a healthy relationship with you. Your bitterness and anger issues are what prevent that from happening.



We will not spread that lie by telling it to your sister. Your requesting that we do so is a cowardly, manipulative form of abuse. You wanted us to tell your lie for you. That doesn’t work.



I love you. I am here for you. I always have been, and I always will be.



Give me a call if and when you want to talk. I would not want to offend you with my texts or calls, so the ball is in your court.



Love always,



Mother

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I like Mary Jane's and Looney's help. I was going to say Don't send him this letter period. It was very good to journal it out and write it down and in that way it can give you some healing, but he is not going to read this letter with the same love that you wrote into it.  The first way it was written I am afraid that it would cause you more hurt that you don't deserve.  However, after reading the revisions I think maybe.  If you are up to it see how J thinks it sounds and if he sees anything that might kindle son's resentment.  At this point in time your son is not looking for reasons to heal the relationship. He is looking for fuel to tear it down, so be careful.  I don't want you to have more hurt than you already have.  MHO.

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I like Looney's adjustments! Now I'm thinking maybe the whole thing should be written as coming from, and signed by, BOTH you and your husband. The more your son sees a united front, the better.

 

I particularly like Looney's sentence informing this young man that if he comes to your housie and abuses you or your children he WILL be asked to leave. I think it may be time this son whom you love, for whom your heart aches, realizes he is being lovingly but firmly pushed out of the nest and must become responsible for his own behaviours.

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THEN ask God what your response should be. I think some quiet detachment would be in order. Give back to him what he is giving to you... but NOT in a vengeful or bitter or complaining way... just quietly remove yourself and go about your life. Don't try to meet him or fix the situation. Let him figure it out. And keep praying for LIGHT and GLORY over his soul.

 

 

I guess I do not know what you are saying by this.

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Thank you MJ, Looney, and Crystal. I had seen these this morning in my email. I wish I had just come here first as it makes much more sense. I very much like your suggestions and will redo in accordance with them.

 

Yesterday was kind of crazy. After my chiropractor appt. I went home. The main floor was very cold. We have been having some issues with the furnace that heats the main floor. I contacted J. He had #2 son unsuccessfully trying different things to get it going. While they were doing that, I was writing the above letter.

 

J called to have me pick up some parts for the furnace on my way to pick him up from work. Then we planned to go back home so he could hopefully get it running. He did get it running, but upon checking it this morning it had tripped out. Back to the drawing board.

 

On my way out the door, #1 son called. I hesitantly answered. I wasn't ready for another confrontation. He just called to say "hi," but we did go further than that.

 

I have read here how guys will twist conversations around and have had kind of a hard time grasping that idea. I now understand. In telling J about it, he asked if he ever does that. I said he does sometimes but not to a very great extent. Son takes it to a whole new level. It was just unreal.

 

He gets along fine with everyone but me. I am the only one he butts heads with. I said we needed to learn not to do that and suggested that he had some anger issues that he needed to work through. No, he doesn't!

 

I need to learn to think about how people will receive what I am saying and use words that will convey what I want them to hear. I said that I will say that right back to him. No, he doesn't need to learn to do that because he does that and says what he means to say.

 

He also said that he wasn't blaming me for everything that was wrong in our family. I asked J how son had come across on this point when they were on the phone Saturday night. J agreed with me that it sure sounded like he was doing so.

 

He said the problem is that I have my expectations for his life, and he has his own expectations for his life which are different than mine. I asked him what he thought my expectations were for him, and he didn't know. I told him......my expectations, or desires, for all my children are that they love God and serve Him in all that they say and do.....and his expectations are different!

 

I think that is when he said something about being preachy, and you can't force anybody. Nope, you can't!

 

He said something about his own rebellious nature.....concerning the new no cell phone while driving law.....he still uses his phone while driving. The rebellious nature is just a joke to him.

 

It's bedtime. Full day tomorrow. Another appt. and then taking #4 son (horse accident) to see nurse practitioner because he has started having headaches again. They started again about 2 weeks before Christmas and have continued. I had figured he was doing too much with getting Christmas stuff out and carting things up and down the stairs. And then there was shoveling snow and playing in the snow, etc.

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Oh dear, those head injuries... I pray #4 son receives complete healing from the effects of that horse accident. In Jesus' Name!

 

#1 son's phone call, I'm guessing, was his way of making an apology. He's hoping he can get away with this substitute.

 

I hope your husband will insist on a proper apology to you before #1 is allowed back in your house again.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Schedules have been so crazy.

 

After taking #4 son to see the NP and getting a perscription for med for headaches, I decided to go back by the chiropractor and run son's case by them to see if they might have some insight. We got an early afternoon appointment. Long story short, x-rays show that he has a very "good" case of whiplash. He has made continuing progress with each visit (yesterday was the 4th).

 

It has been that I would drop J off at work, go to my appt, go home to get son, go back to chiro, and then home until time to go get J.

 

This Monday was a little different. Due to J having worked 12-1/2 hours on Saturday....when it was thought that it would only be 6, we stayed at home Sunday night, and he left from there. I would take care of the chiro appts, and then have #2 son take me to meet J after work. The furnace, however, was not working again, so J went home. He got it running, and we came to other house.....very late night.

 

I went home for Wednesday appts. and brought two youngest back with me. The good news is that I have progessed well enough along that I do not have an appt. tomorrow! Yeah! #2 son will take #4 son to his appt. Next week we both have appts on Mon. and Wed. Then it is re-evaluation for both of us.

 

J just got a repair part ordered for the furnace.... at less than 1/2 the cost of the one that he had me pick up last week. Since it had not been installed we were able to return it allowing us to save over $200! If we can just keep the thing running until the part comes, we will be doing good. I could suggest that temps stay warmer, but another storm is due tomorrow night. At least the upstairs furnace is working ok!

 

After ordering the part, J did his "quick check" here to see if I had posted anything....Nope! So here it is J. Enjoy the reading.

 

He commented that I had not posted anything, and, of course, he hasn't either. I said that I guess we are not serious about getting there (OHM). Then I get the "I'm tired of hearing that." Hearing what???? Well, he didn't hear the "we" and thought I was jumping on his case. Well, whether I said "we" or not, I have not said the "not serious about getting there" prior to this.

 

That being said, I believe it was Tuesday evening that I did mention that he has not posted, and that he is supposed to be doing so. Of course, he started to give some excuse which I said not to give. He corrected and said he knows he is supposed to post and there is no excuse for not having done so. So two nights later he comes up with the "I'm tired of hearing that."

 

That is a backward step, J. You are supposed to be posting on your thread regardless of my posting or not on mine. Your time on the forum is for you to get help from the moderators not just to read what I may have posted and then logout without posting. Don't you dare use my not posting as an EXCUSE for your not posting. That just doesn't work.

 

I see how you just get on to read mine.....which, yes, you are supposed to do, but you don't do anything with it or with your own thread. Thus, as I mentioned in an earlier post and you commented to me about it, I am laying low here to see what you will do. Are you going to take charge of your own growth process and be determined to become the man of God that we all (yourself included) want ... correction... need you to be, or are you going to sit back and wait for me to lead the way? I won't do that!

 

Other than this incident here, I would say that J is pushing towards growth.

 

I am kind of unsure of when and how much leniency to allow for not getting all the homework done everyday when he is working over everyday.

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Well, to put a correction in J's post, I'm quite sure that the upcoming days of overtime will not start at 9am, maybe 6 or maybe 5 but not 9. If it was 9, there wouldn't be an issue would there?

 

He called me at 5 last night saying that he had a little more to do for work, and then was going to work on his repair for my sewing machine. It has been down since right after Christmas. The foot control quit working when #3 daughter was using it. He rigged up a control so I could replace the zipper in #3 son's coat before he went back to school. This control worked for that, but was not anything to consider for long term, and he knew that. It made sewing a 2 person job. One to guide the material and to say "go" or "stop" while the other operated the control. Talk about testing your trust in someone else. My attempt at controlling how quickly my fingers were sewn over was to turn the speed down to its slowest setting. At least I was able to get the zipper changed with this method but definitely not turning daughter loose with it or even doing more of my projects which are sitting there waiting.

 

He had forgotten to take the parts to work with him Tuesday and Wednesday but remembered Thursday. He had not gotten to it on break or lunch so needed to stay later. OK. I will be very glad to have my machine back. I think a new control pedal was going to be around $80, and his repair is next to nothing. I am so glad that he can do repairs on things rather than having to replace them. Within reason I don't mind waiting for them. The main project that is on hold right now is to remake pj pants for 2 youngest sons. I don't know what is up with the pattern, but what I made them for Christmas they have not been able to wear. I want to get the flannel pjs fixed for them to use before spring.

 

Our pastor's wife had texted me Wed. night about a project she is working on for her granddaughters. For part of this she needs curtains. She had mentioned this to #3 daughter in Sunday school and was told that the machine was not working but in process of repair. Her text was about something else for the project, but I mentioned the curtains. Long story short, J got in on the conversation about half way through, so he knew about the curtains.

 

In calling me last night, he said something to the effect of pastor's wife needing my machine running this weekend so I could do her project. Whoa!!!!! Are you fixing this for her or for me??????? My projects weren't important enough to get it going for? He backpedaled and said he was fixing it for me. I knew that, but the fact that he brought her project into the conversation rather than my own projects didn't fly too well. I know he was/is fixing it for me. She doesn't even have the fabric (unless she got it yesterday), and if she did, I wouldn't get it until Sunday.

 

It was just a poor choice of words. Before being a part of this ministry and learning how things should be, I probably would not have even thought anything about it. As I have matured in my walk with Christ and matured in my understanding of the teaching of this ministry, I have come to the realization that our words are very powerful things and should be chosen with great care.

 

I know that I am more important to J than our pastor's wife is, but his words said the opposite to me. We (all people) need to be very careful to make sure that our words and actions match.

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I am kind of unsure of when and how much leniency to allow for not getting all the homework done everyday when he is working over everyday.

 

This was our topic of contention last night.

 

I had gotten into bed before J did. I very hesitantly dressed for him due to my current health issue which prevents ML. I am starving to be shown that he loves me in non-sexual ways, but in that desperation I was allowing myself to give him pleasure ..... so that I would at least have some kind of touch and love.

 

Yesterday morning, we talked about my need for the non-sexual show of love. To be honest, I still don't know what that looks like. That is so sad to me because I see it as a result of the hand that has been dealt to me in this game of life.

 

Due to the snow storm that hit last night, J left work a little early and has a 2 hour later start time today. It was rather strange to have him home so early and to be able to sleep in this morning..... I got up at 5 rather than the alarm going off at 4. I couldn't sleep anymore as I am used to getting up that early now.

 

When he got in and gave his greetings, he sat down at the counter and started working on something that I had no idea what it was. After getting "crumbs" of an answer to my question two or three times, I decided I didn't even care what it was and said nothing else about it. I don't know if he "brought work home" or if this was "trash" from work that he was trying to see if it was repairable for his own use, and, if so, what that use would be. Bottom line I guess would be why he was devoting his time to "trash" when he could have been devoting time to me, our marriage, his growth, or our children. If I have to beg for answers and just get one or two word answers that really don't tell me anything, it just isn't worth my breath.

 

I shut down. I fixed supper. We ate. I think he went back to his "project" while I loaded the dishwasher and then did some of his reading before getting on the men's call. I got on Miss Elizabeth's call. Shortly after Kathy got on the call and was working with the new couple that was on, son asked about watching a movie. J was off his call by this time and was troubleshooting our gas heater which is in the kitchen. We started a movie. J joined me on the couch when he was through. He had his computer out (sitting beside me so all is good) .... checking weather stuff and on the forum.

 

This takes us up to going to bed.

 

He asked how he was supposed to keep his hands off of me with the way I was dressed. I said that not all touch had to be non-sexual. He asked if he gives me non-sexual touches .... not very much. (That question might have been in the morning conversation, but I don't think so.)

 

He then brought up the above quote from my previous post....sort of. He said something to the effect of I was right in giving leniency on the homework with all the crazy schedules, repairs, and overtime. I corrected to say that I had asked how much leniency I should give and have not gotten an answer to that yet.

 

I knew with his next word or two what he was doing and asked him, "What are you doing?"

 

"Giving excuses."

 

"So don't!" But he went on and gave them anyway.

 

My question is why he felt it necessary to give excuses in the first place. Obviously, by my quote, I see all the "things" that are keeping him from doing the homework! Why does he think he has to recite them to me? And to keep on giving the excuses when I pointed it out! I shut down again.

 

"So what am I supposed to do? Just stuff it and not say how I feel?"

 

I said he maybe should have asked Joel that when he was on the men's call, or get on the couples' call and ask, or ask on the forum. I would not tell him the answer. I said he has been in the ministry for two years now and should know the answer. It was said at the intensive. It is on the DVD (we maybe got one hour of watching time in in January). It's probably in the books....I would have to find the specific part.

 

Then I got the bit of by Tuesday he is worn out. I said, "Well, it's Tuesday. So you're worn out; get your sleep. Good night." I rolled over. He rolled over.

 

I spent the night alone on my side of the bed.

 

During the conversation, I asked if he was communicating/seeing anyone. No. Then he asked why I had asked.....just information asking as in I am supposed to ask, or did I think he was.

 

The reason: he got so defensive.

 

Be served notice, J. I feel very much like #2 is trying to push his way back in again. You need to KILL him once and for all if you care anything at all about me, our marriage, our children, and yourself.

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Are you able to get on Kathy's ladies' calls, 1love? I think it would be encouraging for you to have a discussion there.

 

There's one today at 2pm eastern, new number, in case you weren't aware.

Edited by MaryJane
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