Going for the GOLD!!!

[1love]

The February intensive was great, and God is awesome! It was truly a miracle that we even made it to the intensive. About 5-6 hours before signing up to go, I had told my adulterous husband to leave. I was through with all of the lies and broken promises of faithfulness.

At that time he was coming home on weekends and possibly one night during the week. He had an apartment closer to work which he had gotten 5-1/2 months earlier; his reason being health related - so he didn't go to sleep and wreck on the way to work 75 miles away. That day turned out to be a real turning point in our relationship. He did not leave. Instead, he called and told his current affair partner that it was over. The next 3 weeks was a major rollercoaster ride. We would have really good times to where I half wondered if we needed to go to the intensive or not. Then there were times that I didn't know if we would survive long enough to make it to the intensive. And, of course, there were times that I wondered if I even wanted to make it to the intensive or just call it quits.

We worked through some very trying things on our way. I found out a more things while there. It is sometimes so hard to continue on in the face of all of this. The depraved mind is a very sick thing to deal with. But praise the Lord, I have a new husband. The old one is dead.

Back home from the intensive some changes were put in place. He has moved back home full time; the apartment was emptied 2 days after our return home. He is now being driven to and from work and anywhere else he needs to go. As far as anyone else is concerned it is so he doesn't fall asleep and wreck. That is part of it, but the big reason is that his affair partner who lives 5-6 blocks from the apartment is no longer accessible.

His first morning back to work (Tuesday) after the intensive he called to let me know he had a text from her. He had not looked at it; I would see it when he got home. He guessed that she was apologizing and wanting to see him. When he got home, he told me he didn't even want to see it. I read it and deleted it. A little later he questioned if his assumption on the content of the text was right. She actually had just said that she was fine and wished him well.

A very strange thing about this is that onn our way home Monday mid-afternoon, he commented that we needed to abandon the topic of conversation because it was not going well. Realizing what was going on, I started praying and rebuking the devil from our situation. I got about two sentences out, and then he started in praying and rebuking the devil in such a forceful way, even stronger than I was. It was really good to see him take authority over our enemy the way he did. We were back on track then and all was good. When he came home with the text, he was in a bad mood and displaying a bad attitude (he did apologize for his behavior and asked God to forgive him for it as well). As we discussed that in conjunction with the text, here is what I saw. On Monday, the conversation turned bad after the text had been sent to his phone. He had not looked at that phone (work phone) so had not seen the existence of the text until Tuesday morning, but it actually had been sent 2:38pm Monday. It just seems that to me that perhaps the text was the devil's transport in on Monday and he reared up again with it at home. We talked about it and prayed, and all is good. He suggested that maybe she is demon possessed given all of her childhood issues. I know I don't trust her. A thought that had come to me months ago was that she would go off the deep end and do him in: if she can't have him neither can I! I don't dwell on that thought; I give it to God.

The rest of the week went well until Saturday. Through the process of assisting our son working on his car, another bad attitude developed. I went with him to the parts store and the conversation left a lot to be desired. He later apologized. Sunday was ok. Monday was uneventful. And then there is Valentine's Day.

Monday night he had wanted to do something on the computer for me for Valentine's Day, but that didn't happen. So, when I gave him the card and small gift I had gotten for him he said something to the effect of, "I guess that makes me scum since I didn't get you anything.....I didn't have permission to go anywhere." That hurt!

Wednesday I was checking his e-mail and noticed that the things that we had together gone through and deleted had not been emptied out of the trash bin. I don't think that was intentional. I probably should not have done so, but I read some of them which were to another female that he had not had a physical affair with. I was thrown for a loop even though the e-mails were from 3+ years ago. When he got home very late that night (he had worked over because our son/driver had a night class), he asked what was wrong. I told him; and he was not in the slightest bit pleased with me. Why am I digging up the old man? All I needed was for him to hold me and assure me that the old man is gone forever. Instead, I got condemnation for reading the e-mails. I did empty the trash bin so they are gone now. I also had papers for him to sign for refinancing the house. He signed them then said, "What did I sign anyway? For all I know, I just signed the house and everything over to you, and you're going to kick me out." I was stunned. I asked him where that came from. He was tired. Needless to say, it was a very sleepless night.

Last night was slightly better. He apologized. We talked some. It still seemed that there was still some tension. I know he is very tired from work, but I don't think that is a reason to dump on me. It all reminds me too much of the old man! I'm hoping that tonight goes better, and thank the Lord for weekends!

[MaryJane]

Hello 1love! I'm glad you're posting!

Are you two getting on the conference calls? It would be helpful to do so, when these things come up. If he is serious about his marriage, he needs to do everything he can to save it.

You both will need to make sure you are reading the books 10 minutes a day.

It is not going to be easy for him to change his ways. However, he needs to make sure you KNOW he is determined to do it!

 

Monday night he had wanted to do something on the computer for me for Valentine's Day, but that didn't happen. So, when I gave him the card and small gift I had gotten for him he said something to the effect of, "I guess that makes me scum since I didn't get you anything.....I didn't have permission to go anywhere." That hurt!

You'll need to tell him it hurts, every time he does this sort of thing. Do not HEAR his excuses. Walk away if you have to.

 

All I needed was for him to hold me and assure me that the old man is gone forever.

He'll need you to tell him this, too. It's amazing what a "formerly" abusive husband does not understand.

God bless you! I hope you will keep coming back here.

[1love]

Hello 1love! I'm glad you're posting!

 

Are you two getting on the conference calls? It would be helpful to do so, when these things come up. If he is serious about his marriage, he needs to do everything he can to save it.

 

You both will need to make sure you are reading the books 10 minutes a day.

 

It is not going to be easy for him to change his ways. However, he needs to make sure you KNOW he is determined to do it!

 

You'll need to tell him it hurts, every time he does this sort of thing. Do not HEAR his excuses. Walk away if you have to.

 

He'll need you to tell him this, too. It's amazing what a "formerly" abusive husband does not understand.

 

God bless you! I hope you will keep coming back here.

 

We have gotten on the calls a couple of times ... when everything was going fine! He was going to call in last night, and I reminded him that there are no Friday calls.

 

Yes, we are both reading although he had missed a couple of days due to sheer exhaustion from work.

 

I did tell him it hurt, and got an apology. I did tell him I needed the assurance and hug, and the next night got a half hearted hug. I finally told him exactly what I needed in an apology, and I got about half of it ... the most important half.

 

Well, so much for last night being better. I asked him the questions he had told me to ask him every night concerning any contact he may have had throughout the day. He got testy with that. I am accusing him and not believing him! I reminded him that I was asking him what he had told me to ask. He was in the process of trying to get on the internet and could not. He questioned if I had done something to block his computer from connecting. Like I would know how to do that??? He finally called our provider and found out that the whole area was down. I mentioned the false accusation, and all I got was a, "I wouldn't put it past you!" Still no apology on that one.

 

He did his reading and questioned what was wrong with us, but that was about as far as it got. He really didn't seem to want to acknowledge the things that I said regarding his behavior of the week. He questioned about it being that of a 2-year old but didn't do anything about it.

 

Maybe today will be better, and we (or at least I) will be on the call tonight.

[1love]

I guess I will eventually learn how to use the forum and not repeat things. Sorry about that.

 

This morning turned out to be a very good time of talking and working through the issues of the week. We're back on the same page and still going for the gold!

[MaryJane]

I mentioned the false accusation, and all I got was a, "I wouldn't put it past you!" Still no apology on that one.

Did he apologize for this accusation yet? You are well within your rights to tell him that it hurt, that you need him to say he regrets hurting you and he will work on changing this sort of behavior.

 

It can all be overwhelming at first, for both of you. Are you able to get on Kathy's Tuesday morning calls? I'm sure you find it helpful. You can ask questions like, how often should I point things out to him?

 

Really, you BOTH ought to get on the call tonight. I know perfectly well how hard it can be to insist. I say, try insisting anyway. I've found out I can be firm -- calmly!

 

God bless you, 1love!

[1love]

Yes, I received proper apologies for all of the issues. At first, he was telling things the way he saw it (about Wed. night). I let him finish and then asked if he wanted to hear my side of it. He thought and then said yes. After he really listened to what I was saying, he finally saw my heart. What is really cool is this morning before our talk I was reading in good husband, great marriage ... chapter 14, "Be Prepared to Process." Isn't it just like God to give you what you need when you need it. I read that chapter to him and said we need to process the week.

 

We are both planning on being on the call tonight.

[MaryJane]

I let him finish and then asked if he wanted to hear my side of it. He thought and then said yes. After he really listened to what I was saying, he finally saw my heart.

Wonderful! What a great approach you took!

 

Are you on the call?

 

All the best!

[MaryJane]

There, I heard you speak up on the call. Good!

[1love]

I am the driver today (actually I just rode this morning but will probably drive home). Maybe about 20 minutes before getting to his job he confessed that something he had told me last night (an answer to a question I had just asked) was not true. He had not wanted to get into processing it that late. He originally was going to tell me on the way home when he would be able to be with me but decided to go ahead and get it over with. He reminded me that he had told me there would be no more secrets. I said something about the "end justifying the means." I really don't remember what all was said. I know that as we drove farther I could feel myself melting. It was really strange. He prayed for me, for our children, and for himself. He asked God to push him into being the man that God wants him to be. He prayed for the children to be able to see the change in our marriage. Before he got out of the car, I told him that I would rather he had told me the truth last night rather than telling another lie. At lunch, I questioned if last night when telling the lie he had intentions of coming clean with it later, and he had. I don't agree with the idea of the deliberate lie but at least it was not for cover-up purposes; it was for delaying (to him) to a more opportune time. I plan to address this further on the way home.

 

I mentioned to him yesterday that I really wish we knew how "to be married" 31 years ago. He agreed. I always knew there was a big part of marriage that we were not tapping into. I tried to tell him that we needed more ... if all we have is sex, we'll never survive ... neither of us knew what it was nor where to get help to find out what was missing. Thank you Joel & Kathy for showing us how to get what we have always wanted!

[1love]

Wow! It certainly doesn't seem like it has been about 2 months since I have been on here. We have made tremendous progress. There have been some hard times, but we have managed with God's help to get through them victoriously.

 

My husband has been driving himself to work for about a month now. It came about by his having to go in on a Saturday. The kids and I had something else going on and could not be the driver. I suppose I could have missed the event and driven, but our boys and I all would have not been receptive to that. So it was a time to test my faith in God to keep my husband faithful. God is AWESOME! I had figured that we would go back to the driving arrangements on the next Monday, but he had to go in early and was working late. It was God's time for me to let go and trust. We had agreed for the Saturday drive that he would call me from the land line work phone when he got to work. He would call from that same phone right before leaving to go home. I would give him time to get home and I would call the home phone. It was a doable plan; I did not have to call as we got home before he did. So when he drove Monday, we just kept the call system in place. There have been very few times that he failed to call because of work demands upon getting to the plant. So when he didn't call me; I called him. He would apologize for failing to call. New status on this now is that in February our oldest son that is still at home had put an application in at the same company where my husband works. He went for an interview on Monday of this week and started work yesterday (Tuesday). They pretty much have the same schedule although they are working in different buildings. God is good!

 

Other news is that one day near the end of March on my husband's personal cell phone, which stays at home now, there was a text that turned out to be from one of his female contacts. After I found out who it was, I called him to find out "which one" this is. It happened to be one that he wanted to get a copy of The Man of Her Dreams to. So this female and I carried on a lengthy texting conversation. I got her address and mailed the book that day. I also requested that any further contact be to me on my phone. I have heard from her that she got the book the very next day and was very thankful for it.

 

Maybe 1-1/2 weeks later shortly after midnight (a Saturday a.m.), he got a text from one of his affair partners. It was a very inopportune time and put a damper on things. He had to think about a response to her and would let me see it for approval before sending it. That happened on the following Monday night. His response was awesome. He took full ownership of our marriage problems. Told her he had come clean about everything with me so I knew about her. They could not talk anymore. He gave her my phone number to text an address to so that we could send them a copy of the book that had transformed our marriage. She was not so receptive. "Pity we can't talk anymore. Thought we were friends. Wish you the best." That type of thing. I responded back to her and said the "pity is not that they can't talk, but rather that her husband failed to meet her needs, and my husband failed to meet my needs." I encouraged her that their problems were not her fault. We really did want to help her, but communication would have to go through me as we are going to protect our marriage. She has not responded.

 

Last night my dear husband was again showing childlike behavior. When we went to bed, I told him about it. He apologized!

 

I could write more, but will suffice it to say that God gave me a vision over the weekend of a field harvested by His hand and the crop disappearing (my husband's sin). The ground was there for working up to get out the roots of the bad crop (our problems before the adulteries). He showed me that the new seed had been planted and was there for my husband to water. I was waiting for the sprouting. Sunday afternoon, I felt my heart finally opening up as the seed was sprouting. I can feel again! The "feeling" is not in full bloom yet, but it is coming! Praise the Lord!

[JoelandKathy]

Wonderful report!

 

I hope you two can get on the couples call soon to give a praise report there too!

[1love]

Well, now I am ticked. I had something I was proofing before posting, and my laptop moved and lost connection. So much for my post. So that's how it has been going. I posted Wednesday morning about how wonderful my husband is, and Wednesday night it all starts to go to pieces. This will be a condensed version of what I had ready to go a few minutes ago.

 

Wednesday night I found out that he had been into his email account while at work on Monday. I usually have been in it by this time and emptied the junk box but had not done so that day. There was an email from one of his affair partners. He opened it, didn't read it, saw the pictures of craft projects she is trying to sell, and deleted it along with the rest of the junk box. He did not respond to it. Wednesday evening before I got home, he was there again and saw one he thought he recognized so he opened it. It turned out to not be from anyone he knew (no offensive pics). He again deleted all in the junk box. When I got home the computer had his attention to the point of not acknowledging my coming in the room. I knew he was trying to get in contact with a legitimate person so thought nothing of his being on the computer. Upon going to bed I asked if there was anything interesting on the computer. He told me about the Wednesday email. I asked why he had opened it....for curiosity! What kind of answer is that?! I asked if there had been any other contact that I should know about. He told me about the Monday email; by the time he got home, he had forgotten about it. During the ensuing conversation he questioned if I was through with him and wanted to throw him out. Where did that come from?

 

Thursday morning I let him know how much his opening the emails had hurt me; it was like he kicked the bottom out of everything we have worked toward. I got into his accont and retrieved the deleted emails. No offensive pictures there .... she is moving and giving him her address and new phone number, and asking if he or someone he knows could help her husband in the moving process! Go figure! I refrained from responding to her because I did not feel like I could be Christlike at the moment. I may yet respond; I don't know. To his credit I did notice that her address is on the blocked list so there will not be anymore.

 

So Thursday afternoon we met to go shopping and our son took my car to do his running and I went with my husband. The trip home was not very good. I told him I had seen the emails. He questioned why I keep going back to dig up the past! I said he is the one that dug it up by opening the email in the first place rather than just deleting it. Or, the way we had agreed, was that he was not to be on the computer without me, and not into his email without me! I have not been pushing that issue as I know he has legitimate contacts and reasons for being on the computer. He also asked if I had responded to her. Why does it matter? Also, since he had not read it, I gave him more information than he knew about it.

 

Between Wednesday and Thursday some of the responses I have gotten would include: throw the computer out the window, if it wasn't for having a work cell phone, I would do away with all the cell phones and you would be my contact person, he is under 24-hour surveillance with our son working with him, he should just go on disability and then he could stay home all the time and I could watch him 24/7, and kick him out the door (of the car while he is driving). I told him his opening the emails hurt me. He had told me he did not ever want to hurt me again. But he did. Have the last 3 months been a lie? I wasn't going to go through that again. If that was his plans, pack his stuff and get out "tonight." "Do you want me to leave?" No, what I want is for you to decide to be with me 100% and determine to be the holy man of God you told me you were going to be. When he parked the car at home, he left me sitting in the car and took off on a walk. When he returned, there was very little communication. I'm sure he had to see the "20" post-it notes I put on my bathroom mirror yesterday. I wrote my "20's" from God because my husband has a very difficult time getting them to me from himself. He didn't say a thing about them. He went to bed.

 

I finally put Livin' It and Lovin' It down and went to bed. I eventually broke the silence and said, "Goodnight." He responded in like manner and added that I made him feel like garbage (I don't remember the word he used) because I have already determined that he is looking for someone else and is leaving again. I said I never accused him of that and suggested that we get on the call and see what they have to say about it. He was going to sleep. I told him his opening the emails made me feel very insecure. It's like my feelings have nothing to do with it. He questioned "age" 1 or 2? I said I didn't know. I was also being "snappy" or some similar term, why? I reminded him that I am the wife, a responder; I respond to how my husband is treating me. He did finally say that he blew it, and he was sorry for blowing it. There was no "sorry for hurting you" or anything else, just "blowing it."

 

Can he really not see that opening the emails opened the door to the enemy to waltz right in? On our way home, I had told him that it did. I guess some might say I am overreacting. I know where those emails took him and our marriage before. I will not sit back and let it happen again. Your teaching has empowered me and given me a voice to speak up when things are not right. Thank you!

 

It was a long, lonely night. I slept in my Savior's arms and with His peace.

 

This morning was a little better. He said he was sorry he didn't pray last night. I said I was sorry about a lot of things: sorry we didn't snuggle, sorry there was no goodnight kiss, and sorry he didn't pray. He did pray before leaving for work, and I got several hugs and kisses, and a hope for a better weekend.

 

I told him I feel like such a fool. Here I posted on Wednesday about my wonderful husband and now this! He had no idea I had posted and did not respond to that information.

 

Well, it all boils down to this. We've come too far to turn back now. We're still going for the gold! We won't give up. What I don't like is having to raise my mother-in-law's son! I am determined to do all I can to make sure that our 5 sons are grown when they get married because I don't want our future daughters-in-law to go through this. We stand a fair chance with the 4 that are still at home. When I am in conversation with our oldest who is away at college, I constantly think he has a long way to go. He now has a girlfriend so I don't know how much time we have. Keep him in your prayers!

 

An awesome sidenote here is that when all 8 of our children were home (mid-March?), (we) my husband had a talk with them. He told them that he had not been the husband and father that he should have been. He hoped that they have seen a change and will continue to see even greater change as time goes on. I added that one last reading assignment (homeschoolers) that we will have for them before they leave our home to begin their lives with spouses is The Man of Her Dreams/The Woman of His. I think it would be great if we could take (yes, go along with) them to a marriage intensive before they get married. Well, nothing like that on the horizon (oldest son closest prospect and they just started dating, but you never know). I figure that will make nine intensives for us by the time we are through!

 

If at all possible, we will be on the call Saturday. Evenings around here are very short, and weekends are very busy! So much for condensed! This is longer.

[1love]

Well, last night was some better. Throughout the process of all this I get these times where it seems I "hide out" in our bedroom. I've actually done that a great deal especially at the beginning. I guess it is my "safe place." Last night was one of my "hide out" times. I went on to bed while he was watching a movie with the kids. He commented this morning how it seems the tables had turned. He used to be the one that would hide out in bed while I was with the kids. I actually had the same thought last night. I just couldn't bring myself to join their movie. This morning I was up early and read through my "God journal" for April. It seemed to be what I needed as my spirits lifted. Afterwards, we were able to talk things out so things are going fairly smoothly today.

 

When will his past quit tormenting me? The "pain" of it actually left coming back from our intensive. Praise God! Now it is a "sadness" that overwhelms me at times. I guess I would describe it as sad about what we had being so damaged, and we can never go back to it. How do we build that new life without the haunting past? I had been doing fairly well until he opened the emails, and it all came back full force. This morning he did give an acceptable apology for it all, and a promise of his undying committment to me and our marriage. He assured me that he has not even thought about going back to the old life. He is through with it.

 

My constant prayer is that God will use us to minister to other hurting couples and guide them through the path away from destruction. I know we've got to get through that path ourselves before we can do that. There has to be some good that comes out of all of this.

[1love]

We did make it on the Saturday night call as listeners. We had our issues resolved and didn't need any personal help at the moment. I was so blessed by being on the call. Steve and Julie were great. Listening to one couple's call helped me so much it amazes me. I really had had the idea that if I didn't have anything to say that maybe it wasn't that necessary for me to be on. I have a totally different perspective now. I felt this particular wife's heart so intensely it was strange. I went through such emotions as wanting to reach through the phone to grab the husband and tell him to listen to his wife's heart, wanting to hang up because it was too much for me to handle, wanting to break the phone, and wanting to pound my fist into my own husband's leg as he was sitting next to me. I did manage to just pound my fist into the air. Although the specifics of our two situations are different, there are enough similarities in them and our husbands' attitudes that it put me right in the middle of it all over again. I could see so much of my "old husband" in their situation. It let me see how far we have actually come. It also let me see what had happened with us during the week. During the call, my husband had to step out to check something. After the call, I was filling him in on what he had missed ... the very part that gave me insight into our week.

 

So I was able to share with him how his getting into his emails was a "trigger point" that sent me back to my "old husband's" life. He finally saw what it had done to me!

 

Still "going for the gold!"

[1love]

Well, all my guys are off on a campout this weekend. I am dealing with that okay although I do have in the back of my mind that this is the same place they camped out last September when I was told that there was no contact with "her" and it was a big lie. Phone records will show differently. Now with his using his work phone, I can't even check that. I have to take his word for it whether I want to or not. Well, I choose to want to. We were talking last night on the phone, and I mentioned last September after he had made a comment. He thought we needed a change of topic. I told him what I needed was for him to assure me there were no other calls taking place. He did.

 

So here is what he is dealing with. Last Saturday, one of our sons was displaying a very bad attitude. My husband told me that he could see himself in the behavior, and it wasn't pretty. He also admitted that he set the bad example for our son(s). Thursday night it showed itself again. This happens to be the son that is now working with him, so he was able to talk with him on the way to work Friday even though he was "sleeping" or pretending to be. What age is this 21-year old? My husband told him that he had finally had to face the fact that he was behaving like a 2-year old and start growing up. He said that he was behaving just the same and that he needed to grow up. It is so awesome to see him taking responsibility for his behavior and pointing out the similar wrong behavior in the children and challenging them to grow up too.

 

Our middle daughter and I talk a fair amount about behaviors (oldest daughter still living at home). She has such an understanding of all this it amazes me. She is majoring in social work and has recently written a paper on how male behavior is hurting society. What we came back from the intensive with fit right in with her research. She got a 198 out of 200 on the paper! The other night our youngest daughter (soon to be 10) made the comment that it is "women's work to do the cleaning." I let her know that those words were to never cross her lips again. I really don't know where she got that from as all the guys have to pitch in around the house (my husband is finally starting to do so). She actually was wanting to clean the windshield while my son was pumping gas. So it is just as much a training process to teach the girls what is right and acceptable behavior to allow as it is to teach the boys what is right and acceptable to do!

[Looney_Tunes]

It sounds like you're doing great!

 

To answer your question a couple posts back, yes, you will get to the point where your husband's past behavior no longer affects you. You're just not there yet. It's a process. Every time you bring it up and your husband handles it correctly - listens without getting defensive and apologizes - you move a little closer to that goal. The key is that you get to bring it up as much as you need to, and YOU decide when you're healed, not your husband.

 

If you're OK with him using a phone you can't check, that's fine. However, he should be willing to switch to something you can check at any time, for any reason or no reason at all. He lost any right to privacy when he decided to have an affair.

 

I'm glad he's stepping up with your son - awesome!

[1love]

Early Monday morning after getting our son off to work (husband not going that day due to jury duty) I decided to check through his work cell phone. I came across a text that sounded off to me. There was a reply to it as well as a phone call later the same day. When it was time for my husband to get up, I questioned him about it. I felt really bad. It was a legitimate text that he had sent to a co-worker who had taken time off when his wife was in her last days of her battle with cancer. I felt like a jerk. What was I supposed to think upon reading, "Just thinking about you. How's it going?" It actually took him a bit to come up with who it was to. I immediately said I was sorry. He was so good. He said he didn't mind my looking through his phone. I can look through it any time...just ask him about things before getting upset. Well, I thought I was asking before getting upset, but I guess it showed in my face. Actually, the way he leaves his phone available for me to pick up is so different from his always guarding his phone in the past. So his phone is there to look through, I just can't check a phone bill on his work cell phone. I also know that one can easily delete a call from a call log so it doesn't show up in the phone anymore. I don't like my suspiciousness. He has not given me any cause to think that he has reverted back to the old man's illicit behavior.

 

Monday night he was reading in Discovering the Mind of a Woman (Ken Nair) and out of the blue he apologized to me for being a bad husband. I questioned what he meant (was there something new I didn't know about?). Just for what he has put me through and what I go through each day because of what he has done. That is not something the old man would have done.

 

Last night he was displaying selfish, childish behavior. I finally asked him what was up, and he recounted all the things he had done since getting off work. One of those things was to go about 6 blocks out of his way to meet me because I wanted a kiss. I was dropping our daughter off at violin lessons and would not be home for at least 1-1/2 hours; he was on his way home. I felt like it was a BIG inconvenience to him. So after his recounting of all the sacrifices he had made for his family and not had time to get done what he wanted to do (projects at home which definitely need done), I pointed out that all I heard was "ME, ME, ME!" I thanked him for "dying to self and giving to our family" the way Jesus did. Well, not quite the way He did. The attitude was all wrong. He apologized for his selfishness and asked what I wanted to do with him. What are my options? I want to point out the bad attitude and have him grow up. He questioned why I wanted to go to the trouble of making him right; just throw him out. I asked if he wanted me to do that. If he was wanting to go back to his whores. After a very brief pause, "No." This morning he apologized for last night and said he was trying to grow up. He was behaving more like his new "normal" self.

 

It seems that when I am down he is up. When he is down, I am up -- or at least I have to be. I guess that is the way we get to help each other. Fortunately, there have not been times that we are both down, and a majority of the time we are both up!

 

I am reading Livin' It and Lovin' It (Joel & Kathy) now. Yesterday I was thinking on what I had read several days ago about the wife crashing emotionally as she realizes how hard life has been(p. 111-112). I can fully relate to that. I find myself discovering hurts that I really never recognized before. We never went through the "submissive wife teaching", but I guess I had that mindset. I was always quiet, and would not speak up when he did things that didn't set well with me. (That is short of asking for a relationship that was also on an emotional level rather than just a sexual relationship.) I took it all in stride. I would not say anything negative about him. All of this is now coming crystal clear, and I am put out with myself for not addressing the issues in the past. It would have saved a lot of trouble...if he would have listened! I only remember one time of his using "submit to my authority" on me. Ironically, he did not remember using that "point" although he definitely remembers the incidence when he did. My response to him then was questioning him when he was going to be the Godly leader in the home and love me as Christ loves the church. I said I have no problem with submission under those terms. This was in 2009; long before we heard this teaching. I would like to be able to not think about the things of the past; just leave it all buried. I guess the only way to complete healing is to address the past and deal with it.

 

I, again, thank Joel and Kathy for giving me a voice. I previously would not have said anything about last night's behavior. He would have had his pity party. Eventually it would blow over. If we can deal with these things as they come up, they won't add to the list of past things that need to come out as well.

 

Still going for the gold, but really wishing my mother-in-law had raised her son to adulthood!

[1love]

I don’t know what to think about last night. My husband worked late calling at about 6:30 when he should be home to let me know that they had just left. OK He knew that we had planned on going to the fireworks … he was tired and didn’t want to go; he just wanted to go home and go to bed. I said he needed to be home in time to draw a map for me because I did not know how to get there. It was out in the country in an area I am not familiar with. He had tried to verbally tell me that he thought it was a couple of roads after a particular business that he has been to many times. Well, I don’t know where that is.

 

We had already eaten, made two batches of peach jam, and I was sitting at the table when they (husband and son) got home. He dragged in with his worn down look, sat down, and blew me a kiss. I blew one back. He reached over to take my hand and pull me to him for a real kiss. While he ate, our daughter dished up dessert for all of us and asked him three times if he was going to the fireworks before ever getting a response. The response was that he didn’t want to. I said that was fine, maybe I should just go to Pennsylvania with Pam, and we will leave the boys at home. (He knew exactly what I was referring to as this involved an incident, which came up on Sunday afternoon concerning his brother and sister-in-law. He told his brother he needed to pack his bags and go with his wife to support her in going to a relative’s funeral. He didn’t want to go on the 12-hour trip with his in-laws. As far as I know, he did not go.) I went upstairs to get ready to go. He came up; brief conversation was shared about his giving everything to work to where there is nothing left for us … just like it has been for the last how ever many years. I asked if he was going to the fireworks; his response, “I don’t see that I have a choice.” Getting in the van, our daughter asked, “So you are going?” He responded with something like “under protest” or “not willingly.” As we were pulling out he asked if he should have waited until Thursday to order parts for work and not had them until Friday rather than staying over. I suggested he call Joel and ask him. He sat in the van the whole time while the rest of us got out and sat beside the van to watch the fireworks. He badmouthed on the way home, “If I had my sneakers on, I would say to just let me out and I would walk home.” This because we HAD to make a right turn instead of the left turn that I had signaled I wanted to make.

 

Upon getting home before 10:30pm the first communication we had was this text sent at 12:19am: Just how am I supposed to accomplish anything it is my fault that nothing is fixed and I guess I am still a workaholic since I get put in important positions. Now, we were both in bed when he sent this; I am trying to sleep (which was difficult due to the hostility) and barely heard the phone beep that there was a text. I started to not look at it because I knew it was from him…why can’t he talk to me? Well, I did look at it and I responded in text with “Idk” and that was the end of it. After awhile I realized he was on the phone … going through pictures. I broke the silence and asked what he was doing. The answer was that he was going through deleting pictures he doesn’t need anymore, he deleted two of me. That was that. End of conversation. I am left wondering if he had hidden pictures in there of his whores and was looking at them. I really don’t think so but don’t know so.

 

Sometime later he said he was angry because he was yelled at because he worked over, and I demanded that he go to the fireworks, which he did not want to go to. I did not respond because as I see it he was making a pronouncement and not asking for a conversation. For the record, I did not yell at him, and I did not demand he go.

 

On our way home from the fireworks (my driving both ways), I got on the group call. I thought the callers’ issues very similar and wished my husband was also on the call. I did not have it on speakerphone as we had a vanload of children with us. As soon as I got to our room I did put it on speakerphone, he just got ready for bed and went to bed leaving me sitting up listening alone. He got up and went out on the deck for awhile and then came back to bed; apparently he could not sleep because I was on the call (so I found out this morning). After he sent the text, I almost called back in to see if the call was still going but figured he would not be receptive to talking.

 

Well, this morning he finally gave two kisses and said, “Good morning.” That’s it.

 

Now it is a couple of hours later, and we have talked some. He apologized with one of the “I’m sorry, but …” apologies. I told him he needed to learn how to make an apology because that just put the blame back on me. I also told him I had thought about calling back in, and he confirmed that he “would have been belligerent.” I told him his behavior made me feel very insecure. My problem was not that he had worked over. My problem was that he didn’t let me know until he should have been home. My problem was that work got everything of him with nothing left for us. My problem is that he was angry with me because of my response to him. I pointed out that he is not to be the responder; I want a husband, not a wife!

 

He’s heard my words, but the tension is still here. HELP!

[1love]

Just an update to my last post. Our 30-31 hour battle with the enemy for our marriage ended about 2am yesterday. I will say it was very ugly. I had the strong feeling of fighting against the resurrection of my old husband...not the adultery issues but the attitude. To be honest, I feel that there was even more hostility in his attitude than there had been before we began our journey for the gold. Maybe it seemed worse because it has been so good lately and that was all ripped away from me. I don't know.

 

He had asked me at least three times what I wanted from him. Each time my answer was for him to love me like Jesus does. When he finally reached out to in that love, the attack broke. In that instance, God revealed to me how his wanting to back out of going with us to the fireworks ... because of work, was a flashback to his past rejection of me and the lies about working that went along with that rejection. As I started to explain that to him, he started to give "excuses" for working over. I told him he needed to stop that and listen to my heart. He finally did! Praise God!

 

This event really took me by surprise. We had been doing what I thought was really well. We definitely have not arrived but were heading in the right direction. This just took us back to square one. We have had other issues arise but have been able to deal with them in a reasonable time frame. He had pointed out that we are only 5 months into the process. He actually was offering that as an excuse for his behavior as though I was expecting too much. I don't agree with that. This was not just a bump in the road. It was turning off the road.

 

Well, praise the Lord, we are back on the right road. I won't say we are all the way back to the point we were, but we are close to it. He has not offered an apology for any of it. Throughtout the entire time, I felt hatred from him, not love. That feeling was too much of a reminder of the old man. I really don't think it necessary to go into detail of the things that transpired, but will suffice it to say that it was the worst we have had since our intensive in February. I must end this post on a good note so, as I said, praise the Lord, we are back on the right road!

[Crystal]

I told him he needed to stop that and listen to my heart. He finally did! Praise God!

 

You're a wonderful help meet! Great job of keeping your eyes on the prize. I think it's so easy to get pulled into the excuses especially when it comes to "working really hard." It's easy to get pulled away from the real issues, but you managed it perfectly.

[1love]

I believe it was Saturday morning that we were talking, and I told him there was something that I needed, as his helpmeet, to point out to him. Something that I really did not want to have to do because when you have to ask for an apology it generally is not heartfelt. Then I started mentioning the Tuesday/Wednesday problems, and I did not even get all the words out. He immediately apologized for being a jerk. This is the same guy that never would apologize for anything! It gets better.

 

Yesterday afternoon, I was feeling pretty down because of all the thoughts that kept bombarding my mind. I spent a lot of time on the forum reading. I came across this quote, "When God reveals, He wants to heal." So how do I know if it is God revealing, or the enemy tormenting? I am still pondering that one.

 

I had to follow our son to deliver a load of hay to a nearby town to make sure he did not have any vehicle problems. My husband and another son arrived home while I was gone. When I got home, my husband was outside working on my van. While walking in, I stopped by the van expecting more of a greeting than the conversation I received about the van. I went on inside and finished fixing supper and got it to the table. After eating, I went upstairs to read, but had to go back down to get my Bible. He told me to take his upstairs as well, but then said to wait; I was to go to him. Now I'm already fighting the feelings of being ordered around because all this was said as directives not requests. That is not like him. I didn't say anything but was following the directives not feeling like it was a battle that needed to be fought. I was pleasantly surprised when he did not wait for me to go to the far end of the table where he was still sitting. Instead, he got up and came to the other end, sat down, and gently pulled me toward him. He then apologized for not having given me a proper greeting by the van! WOW! Then he began to ask about my day. Sensing that I did not have a fantastic day and needed to talk, he led me outside to the deck as our youngest daughter was also in the dining room. I really couldn't explain to him the problem because I don't know why I was having all the thoughts. He then covered me with prayer. Again, WOW!

 

After going to bed, we were talking and I was sharing with him about one of the "trigger thoughts" of the day. I had to stop myself in mid-sentence because of the ugly thoughts it was bringing back. He just held me. I tearfully said that I think this is a time when he is supposed to just apologize yet again for all the hurt he has caused. He did. I so want to be past all this. I just want to get on with our OHM and enjoy life.

[1love]

Another point of conversation last night was my struggle on wearing a particular t-shirt that I had gotten on a family trip 3-years ago. The problem with it is that it brought to mind my trip to the same place last year. While I was gone with 4 of our children, let's just say, "while the cat's away, the mice will play." I broke off in mid-sentence because my heart could not handle finishing the statement of his behavior while I was gone. He assured me that the things that were going on then are not going on now. His desire is for me and me alone. He asked if I trust him to be faithful to me. I could only respond with, "I don't know. I used to trust you, but now I don't trust anyone except God." I don't think that I feel that he would cheat on me again, but I could not say that I trust him. I find that to be very sad. He has been so good to me for the most part since our intensive 5-months ago. Yes, we have had breakdowns, but we have risen above them. Will I ever get to the point that I can say that I trust him again?

 

I think my problem here is that I feel he deserves better than what I can give in the trust department. I know that sounds totally ridiculous because he destroyed the trust. Why do I feel I should be able to give him more than what I can at this point?

[1love]

Why does life have to be such a roller coaster? Crystal, I really appreciate your encouragement about my keeping focused on the prize and not on the excuses. Sometimes it is really hard to do that. I had forgotten this point of our July 4 disaster. At one point of his conversation he said he could understand why some people that get divorced don't get remarried. I asked if that meant he was quitting. He said that he thought about it. When I questioned how long he had been thinking about it, it was just that day. He has been telling me that he has no intention of giving up. He sees me as God's gift to him. He understands the part that I played in pulling him out of hell. So where did the "giving up" come from? I do not at all want to sound prideful in what I have done. It certainly was not me; it is God.

 

Last evening left me less than excited about my current situation. Tuesday night was all good. Last night, however, well, his words were, "He was on a mission." His mission totally left me out of the loop. What is ridiculous is that I had the same "mission" and he was sabotaging my efforts. Leaving out all the little details, let's suffice it to say this: the mission was to get home from work and get my van fixed so I would be able to use it today. I needed to meet him in another town to get a vehicle to our son so he would be able to come home later (after youth); I (and another son) would be coming home with my husband. I needed to do a little grocery shopping and go by my mother's (relatives visiting) for a quick visit. Due to his lack of communication of what he was doing caused us to be later getting home. In fact, if he had communicated we would have been over halfway home by the time we actually started home. When I pointed this out to him, he just threw his hand up in the air. I have come to dislike that movement so much because he uses it in exasperation....kind of an, "Oh, well. Excuse me!" It really came to light to me when thinking about this afterward. I had just seen the same thing at my mother's....she had done it, too....to me when I told her we were not eating with them because the girls were expecting us at home for supper and needed to get home and get the van fixed. I have never made the connection before. WOW!

 

There were several little things that he did that just had me in a not good mood when I got in the house. He never seemed to notice. Our 10-year old daughter noticed! She asked me what was wrong. He never did.

 

He was out working on the van and called my phone. He asked if our two sons could go out and help finish up ... everyone needed to get to bed as it was late. I asked why he didn't call their phones and ask them; they were not in our bedroom where I was. The response was that they will do things for Mom that they will not do for him. I get this all the time. He says they don't respect him. They never do the things he asks them to do. Well, if they don't respect them (which I disagree with), I wonder why? He expects them to not do things. He said he would just finish it himself. I sent them out. They together got everything going on the van so I can use it today. PTL!

 

This morning he asked how my night was. Well, I said that the night was okay. My evening was lousy. The night would have been better if the evening had been better. He asked what was wrong. I said we needed to talk about some things (couldn't then because he was heading out the door for work) to get them settled and put it to rest. I know we will get all this worked out too. I just get tired of the roller coaster. I have never liked roller coaster rides.

 

I have been reading a lot more on the forum than before and gaining a lot of insight into my life. I need to figure out how to process this information. Thank you all for your help. God bless!

[preciousone]

For me,one of the great benefits of learning about J and K's ministry is how my eyes have been opened up over the last few years when other people treat me poorly. Acually 'seeing' it and now knowing 'why' some things made me feel bad. As in you're mum expressing frustration just because you stated you wanted to do something different from what she wanted. You weren't being deliberately frustrating. You are allowed to have a voice. I found that as I began to change that people began to notice and not all liked it especially if I started to say 'No' to them! They were used to me being quiet little Preciousone, never rocks the boat, does whatever pleases everyone blah blah blah! So glad I'm changing. I like the new me! It's great that you are using the forum to sort out your feelings and getting validation. It's not always easy but now there is a light at the end of the tunnel. You're doing really well.

[1love]

Preciousone, I know exactly what you mean. I have made the comment that J & K have given me a voice. There have been so many times that I have just kept my mouth shut; not any more. I do try to listen to the Holy Spirit to know when things are not worth "rocking the boat" on. I used to go out of my way to accomodate everyone else; not any more. Yes, there are still times that I do so. The difference is that the things I do are from the heart ... not from accomodation. I had to mentally deal with one of those this week. It came down to I did not feel like making the 13-mile special trip west to go to a certain store for a product to take to a visiting family member that I would be seeing when I went 22 miles east. Their convenience was not mine. I can have it for them on their next trip which I am sure will be before the end of summer. It was not an emergency. So I have fought with myself about thinking that I should go ahead and go, but I had no other reason to go to that town. I feel good about my decision. The old me would have made the special trip and then felt used. I, too, am grateful for my voice that J & K have given me. My mother-in-law had told me many years ago when she and I were on a shopping trip together that I needed to get something for myself sometime. She saw how I always got for others but never for myself. Last summer, I actually went on a shopping trip just for me. Probably the first time ever except when looking for something new to wear to a wedding! This was at a really low point in our marriage, I think right after D-day. I hit a good clearance sale and purchased 4 new tops that made me feel good about myself ... my husband certainly was not making me feel good! I struggled a bit with the purchases because I don't spend money on myself. When my husband saw them, he asked if that was my way of getting back at him. I'm talking about $20 - $25 here. He had never griped about my spending money before, but it usually wasn't on myself. The really sad thing is that I picked out the tops thinking that he would like them ... even with all that I had recently found out about him. Even then, I didn't say much. I kept the tops, wore them, felt good about myself when wearing them. Now they are too big for me because an added benefit of God restoring our marriage and our working toward an OHM is that I have lost about 60 pounds in 11 months. He never believed me (in fact, got very defensive) when I suggested that the stress he was putting on our marriage was the reason for my weight gain. He now fully embraces the ownership of that idea and is very sorry for it. Thank you for my voice!

 

I was so proud of my husband. Last evening turned out to be a late one, especially considering out 4am wake up time. After we finally got to bed and had the lights out, he said he knew it was late, and he needed to get to sleep, but "You said we needed to talk about something. What is it?" WOW! He remembered all day! That is amazing. The old man would have forgotten it 2 minutes later. God is awesome! So I gently started telling him how I felt I had been steamrollered by him the evening before. He started to give his explanation (excuses). As noble as his thinking of me in trying to get the van running with a/c was, it was still no excuse to treat me the way he did. He apologized.

 

He is making such strides ... most of the time. He has come so far. He used to never apologize for anything even if I did point something out. Usually when I would point something out, it was concerning the children not me. I just took it all, sucked it in, and went on. I remember telling him he said or did something to one of the children, thinking he is "adult" and knows he should apologize. It wouldn't come, so I would tell him he needed to apologize. Rarely would he do so. It is such a breath of fresh air to not have to tell him he should and it comes just because I pointed out the wrong. Granted it will be nice when I don't have to point out the need for the apology and even nicer when there is nothing that creates the need.

 

I'm loving my new husband more and more everyday and looking forward to the time that there are no "triggers" to bring thoughts of the old one. That happened this morning. He saw it hit me and asked what was wrong. Again, the old man would never have even noticed. I told him and he assured me that he is not that man anymore. I gave him a gentle reminder with a "one day you will get this; you're supposed to tell me you're sorry again," and he did.