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Finally, a start.

 

Our marriage is much better than it was at the end of 2006. Mostly because my husband is way more patient than he used to be. He had a couple of spiritual experiences in which the Lord relieved him of bitterness and gave him love. In one experience he felt the emotional agony I'd been feeling for the 25 years previously. That was all very nice.

 

I, however, am still afraid of making him irritated with me. That's my arrested development problem, I know.

 

If I tell him, as carefully as possible, about something he's said that hurt me, he tells me I'm super sensitive or that it's my arrested development filter distorting what he's said.

 

He likes Paul Hegstrom's teaching and wants to concentrate on it. He agrees with Joel and Kathy too, and even quotes them to people, but prefers not to keep in touch with them. He's doesn't want to hear Joel tell him what to do.

 

He's figured out that it's my rejection that causes his rejection to react.

 

I go around sort of scared of him, most of the time. Except when he's in a great mood!

 

A miracle cure for all this would be nice. Guess it has to be done the hard way, though. With God's help of course.

 

I feel better already, just having written this.

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As wives we do everything in our power to keep the peace. But right now in order for your husband to grow he needs to hear your heart no matter how much it hurts him. Its not true peace you are only protecting his feeling yet you are dying inside holding in what has to come out. With J&K help it won't be rough forever just the first few months and then it will get easier. When you need Joel to talk to him. Call together that way your husband doesn't feel its only for him. You say you and him need direction and you are going to call. Then put it on speaker so Joel can speak to both of you. At first my husband is hesitant because its hard for the men to hear the truth. Joel does not hold back, baby them or stroke their ego. But once he speaks my husband gets it. Its like magic. It amazes me. the way he deals with men. I am blown away. Don't worry about how he will act. Sweetly get him to join you on the call and let Joel handle the rest.

Have you read the marriage manual link on the forum? It will help you explain to your husband what is on your heart.

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Thankyou for your reply, Celia.

 

Yes, I just have to keep telling him what's on my heart, no matter what. Today, he's cheerful, so maybe, today we can make a little progress again.

 

I should probably write out a marriage manual for my own good as well as his!

 

God bless you.

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  • 1 month later...

Well, about a week ago, I did a courageous thing. I calmly told my husband that I'd like to order a replacement copy of J & K's book, Livin' It And Lovin' It. At first, he said we've got the DVD's... I said, "It's easier to read a book." (We've only watched the DVD's once. It was like pulling teeth.)

 

Later that night, he said, "You can go ahead and order that book." I didn't tell him that I had fully intended to do so. It felt really good that I had finally brought up the subject.

 

Back in Dec. '07, he had burned our original copy. We'd been having a "discussion". He brought up the subject of separation, saying he couldnt' afford to keep two households going. (?) I said I was tired of packing up and leaving, he'd have to do it next time. That disturbed him greatly! He said I was quoting Joel. He wasn't going to have Joel control his house! Then he grabbed the book, full of his own bookmarks, and put it in the fire.

 

So, now, we wait for Book no. 2. Then what? Am I going to have the nerve to insist on our actually reading it together? We've done all that already. Until he got tired of my slowness to heal.

 

Now, he's waiting for me to get healed from my arrested development so he doesn't have to react to it. Or something like that.

 

I know this is my own issue, but I'm so uptight most of the time at home, here. I don't feel free to mention my family, friends, or anything. He might not approve! He doesn't approve! He can't bring himself to go to church or have anything to do with Christians. They're too religious.

 

I don't want to leave but that's what I mostly think about doing.

 

This is kind of a haphazard post, but maybe I'll do better next time.

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Until he got tired of my slowness to heal.

Now, he's waiting for me to get healed from my arrested development so he doesn't have to react to it. Or something like that.

I know this is my own issue, but I'm so uptight most of the time at home, here. I don't feel free to mention my family, friends, or anything. He might not approve! He doesn't approve! He can't bring himself to go to church or have anything to do with Christians. They're too religious.

I don't want to leave but that's what I mostly think about doing.

This is kind of a haphazard post, but maybe I'll do better next time.

 

Don't apologize for your post - you can only respond to what you've been fed.

First things first, this is NOT your issue alone. Your husband helped create this problem so quit taking full responsibility for it yourself.

Yes you arrived in the marriage damaged but it's your husband's responsibility to heal you and bring you to wholeness through your marriage. His refusal to do this has caused the problem to go much deeper than it once was.

You are a prisoner in your own home - you aren't free to talk about your friends or family or church so your poor husband doesn't get upset.

You are not the one who has to leave your home!!! It's his role and responsibility to leave when you ask him to.

This is all mixed up here - neither one of you have understood J&K's teachings here. You both need to read the books and watch the DVD's over and over again until you both fully understand how this works.

The husband grows up, dies to self and heals your heart by becoming a Christlike servant. If he's not even a Christian it will be impossible for him to become Christlike - by beholding we become changed!

The husband initiates good things and makes a safe place for you to heal.

You will NEVER get healed while in this marriage with his attitude the way it is now.

Should you decide to divorce then you can find healing through Jesus Christ as a single woman but God's plan is that your husband do this!

Part of being a helpmeet is helping him meet your needs and your need is for him to understand and apply these teachings. So yes, you're going to have to ask him to read and apply these teachings.

We're all looking forward to walking the journey to an exceptionally, outrageously, unreasonably happy marriage with you.

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Oh, thankyou so much, Judy.

 

I'm planning to write him a note with clear words on it as to what has to happen ie. read the book, follow the program, get right with God. His reaction will decide whether I go or stay.

 

He's a farmer. His work is where we live. If he left he'd have to come back continually to do his work. My family members live hundreds of miles away. I believe I need to go to them.

 

Thanks again.

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Oh, thankyou so much, Judy.

I'm planning to write him a note with clear words on it as to what has to happen ie. read the book, follow the program, get right with God. His reaction will decide whether I go or stay.

 

Good, you need to express your feelings, thoughts, desires and needs to him. Lay it out your expectations - read book, watch DVD's etc. In writing is often easier than trying to find the right words in person.

You're fulfilling your role as helpmeet by helping him meet your needs.

 

He's a farmer. His work is where we live. If he left he'd have to come back continually to do his work. My family members live hundreds of miles away. I believe I need to go to them. Thanks again.

 

You're right in THIS instance. Usually the wife and children stay in the home while the husband leaves while working to win his wife's heart back. In your situation where you live on the farm it makes sense that you go live with your family where you will have support.

Let us know the outcome, we're here to help!

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Here's the note I left for my husband to read today. I've been to "the city" with a friend all day. Am almost dreading going home to find out how he responded to it.

 

My Husband,

 

I love you. That's why I'm here.

 

As you're well aware, our marriage is in serious trouble. We're getting further and further apart while in the same house.

 

Here's my desire:

 

That you and I love God and each other, continue to grow spiritually, and become more like Him -- together. Our boys need us, our neighbours need us, and the body of Christ needs us -- together, as a shining example of a godly marriage that really and truly represents Christ and the church. I believe it's entirely possible -- even for us, as old and set in our ways as we are. With God nothing is impossible.

 

I think you desire these things too. Don't you?

 

Those two reasons why I came back home last fall are still out there waiting for complete fulfillment:

 

1. That we worship God and have fellowship with other believers without question.

2. That we go to an Intensive with Joel and Kathy. I think we're still going to have to do that. The DVD's aren't enough for us.

 

Please reply.

 

Your Wife,

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http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=7708223601

 

Hi MaryJane,

 

See if your husband would be willing to watch this sermon with you. It is a wonderful message to husbands about loving their wives with Christ-like love.

 

My husband is loving me the Joel and kathy way and we watched this sermon together and he was still convicted/encouraged that he could be doing better!

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Thankyou Rebecca. I can't take time just now to listen to the sermon, but I'll try to later. Our chief computer is on the blink, am using a friend's at the moment.

 

Here's the reply I found from my husband last night: (We haven't had an opportunity to talk yet.)

 

"MaryJane",

I have decided to take some time before answering your questions. In order that what "I say", I would be prepared to cary it out.

Since running the tractor rattles my brain this seems sensible to me...

"Joe"

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Later that day, we had our discussion/argument in response to my note.

 

The discussion went nowhere -- except towards the idea of separating. He doesn't like me. Plain and simple. I'm too nice for his liking, for one thing. I want to go to church once a week, for another. That bothers him. And he's a born-again, Spirit-filled person!?

 

After another hour, while we sat at the supper table, Joe began talking about our marriage problems to our 21-year-old son! He seemed glad to participate in the discussion! He told his dad, for one thing, that he ought to go to church with me. He didn't back down from his dad's aggressive tone like I might. They spoke calmly to each other, even though they both have a tendency for hot-headedness.

 

Joe's whole attitude changed. He appeared to agree with our son that his objections to me were wrong.

 

What gives? Our son has become our counsellor?

 

Joe felt better, so I felt better, so I changed my plans to leave him and "rewarded" him instead.

 

Tonight, before he went to bed, he said he'd go to church with me on Sunday. In case that was worrying me.

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Well, he didn't go to church with me. He hadn't slept very well. I hadn't either but I wasn't going to stay home another whole week without fellowship with other Christians.

 

I really feel like leaving. It's been so long. He only gets serious about our marriage when I leave. "People" have always been his problem, he says. He can't change, he says.

 

I wish I could see a very clear picture of what to do.

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You are right - when you left him last time - he was "all ears" - as soon as you got back in the home - it was just a couple months until he started to close his ears.

 

Sadly, SO many women are forced into one of three choices:

 

1. Stay and accept the crumbs that a husband wants to offer.

2. Kick a husband out or leave him.

3. Work hard at pushing for change by not allowing him to get away with rejecting the message and treating you bad. Speaking up when he is not doing right - constantly. This will cause a change one way or another - he will begrudgingly change or he will get worse.

 

Most men, whose wives decided to make their change NON-NEGOTIABLE - are thanking their wives later. Some men, of course, just get worse.

 

Maybe your son should come over every day to counsel him!

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Hi MaryJane,

 

Thanks for joining us on the conference call last night. I wish I had seen your string before we spoke as I would have had ALOT more to offer

 

Now, he's waiting for me to get healed from my arrested development so he doesn't have to react to it. Or something like that.

 

Judy addressed this very well in how to heal it. But the manefestations of our arrestedness is in being too meek to stand up for ourselves and letting ourselves be walked upon. So if HE wants you to get healed from your arrestedness, he'd better WATCH what he wishes for! Ha HA.

 

Actually the men who realize that they need their wives to become good helpmeets so that they can become more Christlike and self-confident into their new walk, ARE happy and blessed to see their wives get healed and confident as well. In a woman, confidence = more loving. Especially when a man fully deserves to be "loved to bits" due to his new Christlike nature.

 

To quote Kathy: Its ALL Good and for hubby to resist, is hubby resisting "good". He's fearful right now and fear is the work of the enemy. Its not the he doesn't LIKE people, he's afraid of people.

 

Have him read Galatians 5 --- its one of my favorites concerning being filled with the spirit.

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It's amazing what all can happen in a 24-hr time period!

 

Thankyou Joel for your note. It was refreshing for me.

 

Dory! I'm so glad you and your husband were "on duty" last night! My husband was right into listening and participating. It was wonderful! I offered to quit once when I thought maybe he'd had enough. He said, "Oh no. I want to hear the rest of this couple's story. (Mary and Bill)" Then he spoke too. Wonderful!

 

Sunday, after I came home from church, (I'd put it off as long as possible, spending time with friends all afternoon), I was quiet, not knowing what kind of conversation to try to make with him.

 

About 7:30 pm he said, "Sounds like you've drawn the lines again." I said, "I don't know what's going on." ( typically ineffective reply.) He said, "You know very well. You've done it again."

 

Later, I said, "I don't know what to say when I come home. I know you don't like me going."

 

He said, "You've been away several days this week and STILL you go to church! You're the one who pressured (?) me to stay organic farming. Now I have all this work to do. You haven't changed and I haven't changed. I guess we'll just have to separate. I was just thinking this morning, that I guess I could get used to sitting here alone on the farm for the rest of my life. I'm not going to any marriage counselling or anything like that. Now you've got a more honest answer to your note. I'm a farmer. A farmer has to be hard. Hard, hard, hard."

 

The next morning, yesterday, he said, "Today, I don't want you to leave." He began to wonder what we were going to do. Said it needs to be the Lord who does something, etc. He considered calling the Morris Cerullo Helpline.

 

I said, in my little voice, "This is Monday... Monday nights, 8 pm our time, there's a conference call -- not with Joel and Kathy, but another couple.'

He said, "Yeah, you like them. I don't."

 

Later, about the time our 21-year-old son came home from work, my husband told me he was sorry. He was broken up. He said, he felt like he was kicking me out of my own house. He said he would go on the conference call. I guess you could say the Lord intervened!

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My husband was right into listening and participating. It was wonderful! I offered to quit once when I thought maybe he'd had enough. He said, "Oh no. I want to hear the rest of this couple's story. (Mary and Bill)" Then he spoke too. Wonderful!

 

This is wonderful.. sounds like he is "soften" his heart a little and might be wanting to take the right path in this life!

 

God is so awesome!

 

Reward him for this! This is just a small step, but its HUGE right now!

 

Congrats

 

Gaininghope

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Amen to everybody, above!

 

Confidence. That's the thing. I've noticed when I'm sensing God's approval as well as my husband's approval, I've got all kinds of confidence. Life is wonderful! I'm full of energy! The other side of the coin is, well, the opposite.

 

Dory, I love your signature! That the devil dreads your waking up in the morning! He's going to be sorry I've started to wake up too!

 

Gaininghope, thanks. I did reward him. (It was rewarding for me, too. :wink: ) It's easy to respond with these "rewards" when you feel your husband is putting forth real emotional effort. When he's humbled himself before God and man.

 

So, yes, the Monday night phone call was a wonderful step of progress (again) for us. Thankyou, Dory and Nemo. Thankyou God.

 

So, you think I should try getting us on the Thursday night call? He has trouble receiving from Joel, I'm sorry to say. Maybe he'll be different now... We're still waiting for our replacement Book 2 to arrive. I figure we can read away at it for awhile, next.

 

Better go to God and get another dose of confidence.

 

God bless you all. This forum is great!

 

Good night!

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So, you think I should try getting us on the Thursday night call? He has trouble receiving from Joel, I'm sorry to say
.

 

While the hubbies "on board" strive to be more like Joel, perhaps its good that they aren't yet "there". Then they are more "like" the hubbies further back on the train and can provide the link to bringing them closer. Funny, once when I had to call Joel about something Nemo did - yes, post intensively, sometime we have to rat on our hubbies - Joel got a hold of Nemo and said, some thing like "now look, since Jesus wasn't married, when you have to make decisions like this "in marriage", you need to replace the J in WWJD with the word 'Joel'. What would JOEL do? Joel would do such and such to heal his bride.

 

This is great of you to write as this journey is a train, a link. Soon, others will be linking on behind you and thru you! This journey to heaven is individual, yet can't be done flying solo. You know what I mean?

 

As hubby comes into understanding and gains more knowledge, he will realize that Joel is right in so many ways. Hopefully he will drop his own old ideas of "right way" in marriage and embrace God's way.

 

Nemo did not like Joel at first either. Despised him even. Now that Nemo sees how right he is, he is encouraged greatly by Joel approval. Joel becomes a mentor, almost like a new earthly Dad.

 

Talk to Beauty. Her hubby threatened to go down to FL and "take Joel out" - and it didn't mean dinner! Today. he's a different and educated in the Spirit man altogether. God is SO VERY GOOD!

 

I hope your hubby is willing to listen in (if not speak) on Thursday. And if not, bring him back again on Monday! Tuesday is also available with Mike and Annalea starting at 7pm Pacific time.

 

Thanks for the compliments and congrats on the newfound confidence! You are getting healed of your own arrestedness already! Ladies arrestedness = lack of confidence, inability to see their value in God's eyes. You are a beautiful daughter of God!

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Thankyou Dory. This forum is so good! What an outlet!

 

I'm encouraged to know that Nemo didn't like Joel, either, at first. Once, a few months ago, my husband said maybe he and Joel will be best buddies some day! That sounded awfully far-fetched considering how much he disliked even hearing his name mentioned, at the time.

 

Good night and God bless.

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Once, a few months ago, my husband said maybe he and Joel will be best buddies some day!

 

He can laugh about it NOW, but one day, if he can try this program out 100% for 6 months, he will find that statement as true as the sky is blue.

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Yesterday, my husband apologized to our 21-year-old son. He was present on Sunday when my husband told me so angrily what he didn't like about me and how we would need to separate.

 

I told my husband the next day that our son had cried and groaned in prayer for his dad after his dad had gone to bed. Our son also said to me, "I thought Dad was saved."

 

So, I was glad to hear about the apology. It was definitely necessary.

 

The replacement book no. 2, Livin' It And Lovin' It, arrived today. My husband was not overjoyed to see it. Even though he had a change of heart 3 days ago, it's hard for me to see him whole-heartedly sticking with "the program". I think I'll need to keep my requests simple and few or he'll feel dictated to. Maybe just the conference call on Monday's and read the book or watch a DVD two or three times a week.

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