Aim: Get from Intimidation to Intimacy

[Crystal]

I know I shouldn't try to speak for him, but I'm quite sure Z wouldn't hear of joining that contest.

 

That's what I thought about FD too, and I started out posting it for him---he had to keep track though. It's worked great for him and for AterHerHeart too. They got it! It seems like once they figured out that 20/20/20/20 is REALLY what WE want, they are into it. I have to draw the line for FD sometimes. I don't accept any hugs or kisses that don't feel right, either too aggressive or "mommy appreciate me"...don't know if that's a problem for Z, but I know it is for a lot of the guys. I am a contest advocate! For some reason it works!

 

I "can't take" one single complaint or irritated remark or anything of the sort from him anymore.

 

I say GOOD! How else can he learn when he's being a clod unless you tell him!

 

I'm sorry I'm taking so long to DO this whole marriage thing properly

 

ACK! What?

 

I like reading your posts. They are so purely you, very real, open, honest and brave!

[MaryJane]

This computer is too sensitive -- like me. I just lost a whole list of complaints with the flick of my wrist.

 

Thanks for stopping by Princess Fiona. Glad you got home alright.

 

Thanks for your comments, Crystal. I needed the cheering up. I'm not really ready to cheer up yet, though. Need to whimper awhile longer first.

 

I'm very, very, very tired of forcing myself to speak up.

 

VERY tired.

 

I just want to quit! (It's how I FEEL, only.)

 

I can't quit because my sons would be too disappointed.

 

I'm down in the dumps and resisting "doing this" anymore.

[Crystal]

Whimper away, dear heart! You are entitled!

You have reason to feel discouraged & reason to take a break from the "rock pounding" I think. Don't worry about your sons right now! You are not a quitter. You are a fighter for truth & justice!!

I've got lots of positive energy going on right now & I intend to dump good cheer all over you!

hoping it doesn't offend.

[Crystal]

Hi MaryJane, I'm sitting here this evening thinking about you & wondering if iit eases the burden you feel when you are reminded that Z knows what he's doing. He knows what it is you need & want. It's not up to you right now to stand on his toes. Rest from it. Hoping that by now he has turned back to you & is giving you the love you desire... Sweet dreams... C.

[MaryJane]

Oh, my dear Crystal! Thank you for dumping all that good cheer. It's totally unoffensive.

 

I LOVE your latest post. Z does know what he needs to be doing. He even mentioned it tonight.

 

He started by telling me how tired and worn out he is from all the activity we've had lately. He thinks he's old. He told me this because he could sense I was downhearted for some reason and figured it was from not getting any touches from him today. And his reason for that is, I guess, that he's so old and tired.

 

Then he tried to egg me on, to get me talking. To incite me into it. Not the way I NEED to be "encouraged" to open my mouth.

 

He wanted me to talk. I said I'm tired of talking to him. Worn out. That I CAN'T talk!

 

I didn't really "get into it" with him.

 

Before he went up to bed, he said, "Maybe you should write something, then."

 

Maybe I should write, "Please dig up all the notes I've written already and see what they say."

 

...

 

Actually, it seems like I can't recover from the last twice he was angry at me -- even though he apologized both times. Usually I can cheer right up after an apology, but not this time.

 

I suppose I'll have to... but no, Crystal said I can take a break from standing on his toes.

 

That's part of my trouble too, though. I feel like I haven't been standing on his toes enough, probably. I HATE doing it. I just want to cry (not reallly).

 

As I started to say above, I suppose I'll have to hold out for either the conference call tomorrow night, or a private call to Joel and Kathy -- for the purpose of getting help to talk to my own husband.

 

Thanks for hearing me. I ought to be past all this stuff by now.

[Princess Fiona]

Hi MJ,

 

sorry you're feeling so disheartened.

 

I for one LOVE reading your thread, yes you have problems, but at least you are on the right track.

 

Months ago, when I told Shrek I wanted to separate, he kept trying to convince me that he was changing and enrolled other people in my life to try and convince me too. I felt utterly condemned, but I stuck to my guns. I knew that I knew that I knew, that he had not had a change of heart. I have always said to him, I don't really care about the issues and problems, I love you, and we can handle it together, but I do care that your heart is in it, and it's not, I know it's not, and nothing you or anyone says can convince me otherwise. I know now without a shadow of a doubt that his heart is in it. And I can pinpoint the exact night it happened, the night I told him I was sick of hearing him moan, and he should start thanking God, and praising Him, as an act of his will. A light just went on in his head. And I know it.

 

Weirdest thing is, is that those very same people that were trying to convince me of his changes, are the ones now, who when I tell them that Shrek has had a change of heart, are the ones who are being really cynical about it! Go figure!

 

Your hubby loves you, and his heart is in the right place. Yes, he's on a learning curve, and he falls down, and you get hurt. But this is just a dip in the road as kathy says. Don't let the enemy lie to you, and discourage you. just take a breather. God is by no means finished with either of you. And I look forward to reading about the great love story that is going to unfold on your thread. You two have so much together, and have come so far.

 

That guy loves you! And you are a great wife.

 

I think crystal's advice to you, for YOU to start posting his HSK's on the contest thread, is a GREAT idea. It's really hard to think that a contest would work, but it seems to get these guys going. its the competition element maybe. I dunno. Anyway think on it.

 

Best love, Princess Fiona.

[MaryJane]

Thank you so much, Princess Fiona!

 

I don't know what else to say right now. My note last night didn't do any good.

[Looney_Tunes]

Hi, MJ!

 

I'm sorry you're having a bad week.

 

I just wanted to let you know that I heard you on the call tonight - I was lurking there in the background, but I was driving and there was a lot of noise so I stayed muted. But if you need to talk or vent or cry or blow off some steam, you know you can call me, right? Do you still have my number?

 

I totally agree with taking a break if you need to. The last time HD and Eeyore hit a big bump, I kidnapped her and we went to a hotel for the night. She had 24 hours of not working on her marriage and not dealing with HD's stuff, and she went home a new woman. Sometimes you've just gotta get away for a little while and recharge the batteries, and then you can get back in the game.

 

I love you bunches - hang in there!

[MaryJane]

Once again I lost a time consuming post that I was just about finished writing! Not used to this fine-tuned instrument yet.

 

Looney! What a pleasure to see your post! I like the idea of blowing off some steam! I still have both your numbers. Thanks! I'm glad you were lurking.

 

Yeah, what a call. Kathy was nice and gentle too. I had to smile to myself when she started off asking about the weather.

 

Z told Kathy that he's been "doing it" (trying to heal my heart, etc.) and it didn't work.

 

He HAS done some, it's just that I need him to be consistent with doing it. I need to feel that he is ALL IN, determined to do what it takes to heal this marriage. I don't feel that. I do know he doesn't want to lose me. He told me that just a few days ago.

 

He told me tonight, after the call, that it takes calling on the Lord -- the real thing, not just (doing) "The Word". I feel like writing something really sarcastic...

 

After Z said he was DONE and walked away while Kathy was talking, I stayed on the phone a few minutes. Then I went out to the kitchen where Z was, since I was determined not to hide away. He said, "She probably told you to do a whole bunch of things."

 

I said, "No, she just said to wait on the Lord for now."

 

"Wait?! Wait?!", he exclaimed. Like Kathy had just spoken heresy.

 

"Pray", I said, "Whatever you want to call it."

 

...

 

Well, several people have told me to take a break. One of them is a friend who is getting a red book soon. She prayed a real good Spirit-led prayer for me last night too!

 

I feel better already. Thanks for listening.

 

I better go call on the Lord for a few minutes. I do believe in that. Then I'll close my eyes and drift off to sleep. Good night All!

Edited November 27, 2011 by MaryJane

[MaryJane]

Double post!

 

 

Edited November 27, 2011 by MaryJane

[Looney_Tunes]

Yeah, I heard when he walked away from the call. I just wanted to beat him.

 

I wish you were close enough for me to kidnap . . . and this time, I'd definitely demand a ransom! It might take him weeks to get together that much chocolate!

[Looney_Tunes]

MJ, I'm sorry I missed your call. My phone was . . . well, I don't know where it was, but I never heard it ring. I just now hunted it down and found your voicemail.

 

I'll be up for another hour or so (it's just after midnight here), or we can try to connect tomorrow.

[Little Redheaded Girl]

Thinking of you MJ. Just sent up a prayer thanking God for you and thanking him for working on the SLIGHTEST crack in Z's stubborn farmer armor.

[Little Redheaded Girl]

Are you okay MJ.???

[Princess Fiona]

Hi Mary Jane, hope you're ok. Praying for you.

 

Miss you.

[musicteacher]

Thinking of you MJ. Just sent up a prayer thanking God for you and thanking him for working on the SLIGHTEST crack in Z's stubborn farmer armor.

 

"Stubborn farmer armor"... that's a good one. I'm thinking about you, too, MaryJane. I hope there is a breakthrough soon!

[Little Redheaded Girl]

Help! I am surrounded by over 100 farmers and farm product salesmen. The stubborn arrogance is suffocating me! Fortunately, I will escape all but one tomorrow!

 

How's is your independent cuss behaving? Missing your uplifting words. We love you MJ! We love you too Z! We are for you both!

 

LRG

Edited December 4, 2011 by Little Redheaded Girl

[MaryJane]

Help! I am surrounded by over 100 farmers and farm product salesmen. The stubborn arrogance is suffocating me! Fortunately, I will escape all but one tomorrow!

 

How's is your independent cuss behaving? Missing your uplifting words. We love you MJ! We love you too Z! We are for you both!

 

LRG

Oh, girls, you're so good for me! Thanks for the "stubborn arrogance" comment, LRG. Misery loves company and I feel better already.

 

I like the idea you put forth, LRG, of a crack in Z's armour. (farmer armour -- that's a good one!) I think I'm going to work on that crack.

 

My oh my, I cheer up just getting here. It's amazing.

 

I'm not updating tonight. Just checking in. A little physical disturbance is dictating that I get to bed. (You know all the nasty stuff stress can cause.)

 

Spent a good deal of time getting my new laptop connecting to the Internet tonight. What a relief!

 

I'll say this much, I've been in emotional agony for, I don't know, a couple of days at least. Z knowzzzzz.

 

Thanks Looney for the nice little chat we had the other night. So good to commiserate with a girl who is familiar with the red and the blue books -- and with one whose house I have been in.

Thank you for your kind words, Princess Fiona. You're a charming little lady.

 

Musicteacher, thanks for stopping in. God bless you!

 

Will talk tomorrow, hopefully. Good night!

[Little Redheaded Girl]

Soooo glad to hear from you MJ. You had me worried. Glad you were able to talk to our Looney. That is always helpful.

 

LRG

[musicteacher]

Oops. I guess LRG and I both misspelled "armour." I'm glad you stopped in and let us know you are alive, MaryJane.

 

If it helps you to have us girls post on your thread, we'll keep posting.

[Princess Fiona]

Hi Mary Jane,

 

I'm so happy you've checked in. I think you take the crown in the "charming" department. Everybody loves you and has missed you. I hope you have had some rest. I'm sad that you've been upset.

 

Best love.

[musicteacher]

Oops. I guess LRG and I both misspelled "armour." I'm glad you stopped in and let us know you are alive, MaryJane.

 

If it helps you to have us girls post on your thread, we'll keep posting.

 

Hi, MaryJane. Just checking in. My brain is so confused. I am on another forum where there are some Brits and some Canadians and you all spell words with the "u" in them. I begin to think that the way we spell things is wrong!

 

armor and armour ~ just two different ways of spelling it. Hope you are feeling a little better and hope to see you back here soon!

[MaryJane]

Oops. I guess LRG and I both misspelled "armour." I'm glad you stopped in and let us know you are alive, MaryJane.

 

If it helps you to have us girls post on your thread, we'll keep posting.

It helps. It really does!

 

Thanks Princess Fiona! I haven't been able to get caught up on your story yet. I hope it's progressing as necessary!

 

Musicteacher, I'm glad to hear some Canadians are still spelling words the Canadian way, which I was taught. I have a feeling the young ones are becoming Americanized, spelling-wise. "O-r" is correct for you, "o-u-r" is correct for me! At least it's all legible, right? (I pronounce the letter Z, "zed", too... I don't know what the British call it.)

 

---

 

I like what you wrote here on my thread on November 26th, Princess. The following:

 

I knew that I knew that I knew, that he had not had a change of heart. I have always said to him, I don't really care about the issues and problems, I love you, and we can handle it together, but I do care that your heart is in it, and it's not, I know it's not, and nothing you or anyone says can convince me otherwise.

 

Lately, I've been reading Lundy Bancroft's book, Why Does He Do That?. I think it's Z's heart or core being that has to be changed yet. He does pretty well for awhile, then goes down into his own private oppressive little pit and "can't" be friendly anymore. I CANNOT afford to allow myself to be sucked down there with him, any longer!

 

I've spent lots of time these last few days AWAY from Z -- either figuratively or literally. It wasn't really restful for me though, because I felt so devastated. I thought I was going to have to make the break permanent. It seemed so unlikely that he was going to really change deep down.

 

However, I did say a few pointed statements to him that I never would have done in the past. I always give myself a little applause when I do something that brave.

 

The other day, I actually argued with him! He said, "You could give my back a scrub." (I hate that!) I started to do it, then said, "Would you..." He knew exactly what I meant. I want him to ASK me to do things for him!

 

He said I'd have to tell him every time, what to say, because he doesn't know. I said, "You do too!"

 

He said, "You don't have everything drilled into your brain either."

 

Listen to this: I said, "Don't start sentences with 'You'. They're accusations!" (That's pretty forceful of me, right?)

 

He said he'll have to say nothing. I said, "No, you just have to speak with kindness."

 

He said he can't. I said, "You can so! You've done it lots of times!"

 

Oh, I forgot to tell a big thing! It was pretty good, in a way, too, I think. But it's late. I'll try really hard to do it tomorrow.

 

Better quit. Good night.

[MaryJane]

Musicteacher, I hope I didn't say anything that was politically incorrect. Armor is absolutely right in the US and armour is right here. Either is right in Scrabble.

 

---

 

I told Crystal I didn't have much time, but here I am still on the forums. I want to tell that one big thing and then I'll go to bed.

 

On Wednesday, November 30th, I told Z that I wanted to make an appointment with him for the next day. I said I wanted to sit down and talk for half an hour while he listened only -- no comments. He agreed!

 

So, the next day, December 1st, after several days of my aloofness, Z and I sat down in the kitchen to perform this exercise.

 

I talked and paused and talked again. He sat there looking into the fire and didn't say a word! It was amazing to me! It was agony for him, I think.

 

I said a bunch of stuff, pretty much what I've said before. It was the exercise of it that meant a whole lot to me!

 

I told him first of all that I like him. I like how he figures things out. I like how down-to-earth he is.

 

Then I said his figuring things out often leads to fault-finding and that I cannot bear. Etc.

 

After about 20 minutes, I said I was done, but would rather not talk for the rest of the half hour. He honoured this.

 

It was a completely new experience! I'm so used to "expecting" him to object to my objections, that this was a real novelty. It felt kind of healing. Before he went outside later, I told him how much I appreciated his doing this! We hugged. I cooked supper.

 

Things went downhill again the next day, then back up again but right now I'm going to bed.

[Princess Fiona]

Mary Jane, you have got be the lady with the sweetest temperament ever! Honestly. I know God made us all different, and all our temperaments serve Him in different ways, so I can embrace my own temperament, and rest in the fact that He made me, and He knew what he was doing! But your spirit is so lovely!

 

I like Z too. except for his stubborness of course!For some reason he reminds me of Shrek.

 

So canada and North America here we come on our busman's holiday. One day!

 

It's amazing what you did! It's very weird when we do something new, and realise we can pull it off. I've had a few of those moments too. Wish I'd known sooner. Sigh. Oh well. Better late than never.

 

Our story is doing really well, so is my baby girl!(Even though she's 18 on Monday, she's still my baby)

 

I really think, having read your thread through, a few weeks ago, that Z's issue, with his core, and his heart, is a spiritual one.

 

I'm going to start praying for him MJ. Way back, in the summer, before I found the intensive, but after we had decided to separate, I was clinging to God, and praying for Shrek's heart to be changed. One day, I realised, that to God, Shrek was more important than our marriage. That his salvation and relationship with His Father, was more important than anything else, even me. And I also realised that, without God at the centre of his life, Shrek was never going to be the man I needed him to be anyway. So that's what I started praying for. Oh my! God is faithful to answer our prayers!

 

I can pinpoint the very night this happened. It's post #52 on my thread. It was the night he started moaning and complaining, AGAIN. Out of nowhere, I just snapped and let loose on him, I told him I was fed up to the back teeth of listening to his moaning, and of his pity parties. I told him to start thanking God, and praising Him, even if it was just an act of his will. So he did, it was literally an overnight transformation. God is good!

 

So, I will start praying for Z. Watch this space!

 

Best love