Aim: Get from Intimidation to Intimacy

[Looney_Tunes]

The med normalizes his brain chemistry so that he is able to grow spiritually. Tell him I said so.

 

I'm glad he's OK.

[MaryJane]

Ha ha, thanks Looney!!  I'll tell him.  His father-in-law had a talk with him today.  The mother-in-law told me she thought it went well.  I'll probably find out more details about that later.  I am SO thankful for these in-laws!

[MaryJane]

I have other updating to do, but all I want to say right now is -- I WAS AT A GUY PENROD concert tonight!!  LOVED it!!  Went with a girlfriend and a daughter-in-law!

[4evrHZdtr3]

 

[stillblessed]

Oh how fun! I have Guy's "Breath Deep" cd, and I want to buy his new one that will soon be released, 'Worship'. I'm not a contemporary Christian music fan, but I do like a lot of the lyrics, so hearing him sing them in his style should be great!

 

So glad you got to have a blessed evening!!

[MaryJane]

Thanks 4evr and Stillblessed. 

 

I'm working on an update. 

[MaryJane]

This is not my update, I wanted to say something to 4evr.  I just now read the link you put on my thread on May 2nd, by Francis Frangipane.  It's good!  That is a major thing that happened to Z, I think -- spiritual DIS - appointment!
 
Francis Frangipane wrote:

By accepting a demonically manipulated dis-appointment into their spirits, and letting that event germinate and grow into a disappointment with God, a bitter cold winter overtook their souls and their destiny went dormant.
 
http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/34526-francis-frangipane-expect-a-great-outpouring-of-mercy 
 
But Zed's destiny (our destiny) is still in the heart of God! 
 
An interesting and uplifting article.  Thanks 4evr!

[4evrHZdtr3]

Yes! It is... because you are the God appointed rescue to that with your prayers and love...

 

I am at my daughter's house. Her mother-in-law has been near death and critically ill- now on dialysis. BUT GOD told me to go down there and stand in the gap... So I have been.. Especially with prayers and worship music...and lots of quiet love and positive words. This morning I had an unusual experience in prayer for her and when I went in to see her.. she wanted to tell me that since I arrived, her thinking has been changing and she's feeling "more human." She has told me twice now that if I had not come she doesn't think she would have made it. The demonically inspired disappointments in her life are beginning to crumble... It's not me.. but the LIGHT of God in me and the fact that I was called to do this. You carry the LIGHT of God and you are called.. Go get 'em MJ!

 

 

 
But Zed's destiny (our destiny) is still in the heart of God! 
 
 

[MaryJane]

Thank you for the encouraging words, Serena!  I'm not sure whether it was your daughter or her mother-in-law who said those things.  I'd like to know. 

 

May your day be merry and bright!  (Doesn't matter that it's not Christmas.)

[MaryJane]

Maybe now I’ll get this update done!

Son 3 ended up having to sign himself in to the psychiatric centre. He was there for four weeks, discharged on May 30th . He still didn’t seem quite right for about a week, but sounds much closer to normal again now. I’m feeling relieved about that. Thinking about him AND my marriage was a little overwhelming for a day or two there. And the thing was he had it in his head that he needed to get away from his WIFE! That’s what bothered me so much. She’s a gem. She seemed to just calmly wait for him to get his “head on straight” again. I think she taught herself to do that. It still wouldn’t have been easy for her. She told me today that our marriage problems, Zed’s and mine, are weighing on Son 3, so asked me not to talk to him about it anymore than necessary. I’m not, but was glad she told me this. It was what I had suspected.

Meanwhile, Zed and I had to have our little meeting. We actually had two meetings. The first one, after two months of silence, turned out to be a nice little outing. We met halfway between The City and the farm. There is a very nice park with pea[edit]s and Canada’s longest swinging bridge at that town. I had the following note ready to read and/or give to him. I didn’t have the heart to talk about the contents at that time, so gave it to him before we parted (such a poetic word). We had made a date to meet again in a few days. However, he phoned me ON THE DAY, and said he couldn’t do it. He didn’t like the “terms” in my note. It just brings up all the old Joel and Kathy feelings, he said – from being told what to do by them.

Here’s what the note said,

Zed,
I SO much need you to love me. Everything I'm doing and saying is because I still WANT to be married to you. There are three main changes I need you to make, though. Then I can decide what to do.

1. Quit smoking, completely and forever.

2. Change your deep-seated beliefs about me. That is,

Learn to see me as God sees me.
Learn to value me.
Think of me, and treat me, with respect.
Get rid of resentment against me.
Stop and think how your words might make me feel.
Consider my feelings and opinions as just as valuable as your own.
Stop thinking that I'm out to get you.

3. Go to church, even if I'm not with you.

Love,
MaryJane

Then the next day he phoned me, apologized for his tone about the note, and asked me to meet him again to sign a paper. He said he would like to take me out for supper. I agreed. I thought maybe his feelings had changed somewhat, concerning the note. We met at the same swinging bridge town on Saturday, two days ago.

The Chinese food was good. Then we walked a bit, stopped at a nice spot overlooking the park – and began to talk. Zed had been thinking that, since I am still not ready to come home, we could do a legal separation and still get together once in awhile to work on our marriage. He found out from the accountant that we could each get a little more money added to our pension that way!  He had a second paper with him for me to sign to do this legal separation.  I said no. I’m not letting “them” pay me to stay separated from my husband!

 

He likes having me around the house. He misses that. I didn't change my mind about what I wrote in the note.  He doesn't think he can quit smoking.  When we finally gave up talking, he said, “Well, at least I know what your expectations are.”

Then we got into our respective vehicles and drove away in opposite directions.

The End

 

It felt really weird.  It didn't feel good.

[Looney_Tunes]

Aww, MJ, I'm sorry. I'm sorry he's not willing to love you the way you need him to. I hope that decision is temporary.

 

What do you think you're going to do next?

[MaryJane]

For now, I think I'll wait a few days to see if he phones to talk again.  I think if he quit smoking, which interferes with EVERYTHING in our life, I would be willing to go home to continue "working on our marriage".  I think I hinted at that on Saturday, but am not sure he heard it.  Still, I think I'll wait to hear from him.

 

I have a ladies thing to go to tomorrow with a couple of friends.  We'll be away for two days. 

 

Thank you, Looney. 

[stillblessed]

 

Then we got into our respective vehicles and drove away in opposite directions.

 

The End

 

It felt really weird.  It didn't feel good.

 

I can imagine. It even sounds like it would feel weird, just reading it.  I'm sorry.  It sounds like his focus is still very much on himself and what he wants. I hope he spends time thinking it over and soon calls you to try again!

[4evrHZdtr3]

So sorry! MJ... OUCH...  

 

Perhaps if you explained to him how the smoking interferes with your relationship? But I am sure you must have already done that...

 

Basically, you have asked him to change his relationship to God..i.e. go to church not to please you but because it's the right thing to do.. change his relationship to himself.. i.e. quit smoking and take care of his health.. and change his relationship to you..i.e. see you as God sees you, not as he thinks you are.

 

So he doesn't want to change..and probably because he is satisfied with himself.  Have you already prayed that God would show him how he really is.. show him his need, his blindness? Show him his foolishness in equating yours and his value to dollars?? Then ask God to reveal Himself to Zed? Ask God to give him heavenly eyes and ears?

 

I am just sorry that this is happening!

[MaryJane]

Thank you Stillblessed.  Yes, his focus is still very much on himself and his comfort.
 
Thank you 4evr.  Yes, I have prayed along those lines, but I'm sure I need to pray a little more earnestly for awhile.  Something else I'm doing is having The Talk with my sons.
 
I happened to see the two oldest tonight, and invited them to come to my little apartment on Saturday evening for a "talk".  They could tell I was saying that word in quotes.  Son 2 asked, "Like an intervention?"  I laughed and agreed, well, yes, in a way.    Son 2's wife will come too.  When Son 3 and wife are back home from a spontaneous little trip they went on, I will invite them too.  Son 4 and wife, who live 11 hours away will have to hear about it by phone.  Maybe we will put them on speaker on Saturday night.  
 
I was a little nervous about asking my sons to do this, not sure how they would react, but they remained calm and casual and agreed without hesitation.  They're good young men!
 
-------
 
Oh yes, I want to mention the Aglow gathering I was just at.  It was very uplifting.  The speaker ended up giving a Word from The Lord over every woman present.  There were only about 15 to 20 ladies there.  The one thing that stood out for me when it was my turn, was, that I was to let go of disappointments and let go of expectations of future disappointments!  The speaker does not know me. 

[MaryJane]

Stillblessed, I finally got around to listening to my Guy Penrod CD, "Worship".  I like it!  I like how his CD's have the words printed out in case a person want to learn them and sing along, too.

 

---

 

Well, the meeting with my sons went very well, I think!  Sons 1, 2 ,3, and two daughters-in-law, plus Son 4 and wife by speaker phone, were present.  I had juice and ginger ale and popcorn for them.  I read aloud the three and half page letter I had prepared.  Then I read aloud the above note I had given to Zed.

 

Included were a few brief paragraphs from my journaling over the years, a couple of positive notes along with several negative ones. My sons and their wives seemed to appreciate getting a better understanding of how it was for me.

 

Eventually, each one made comments, including the girls.  They all had thoughtful, wise words to say. It was all good!

 

The only one who had a little negative slant to his comments was Son 1, who is single.  He seemed to feel compelled to point out that he didn't think I understood where his dad was coming from, or something like that.  He feels that he has learned to get along with people who are blunt like his dad is. One or two of the others spoke up to say that it's different when you have to live with them. I told him I can get along with those kind of people too, as long as I'm not married to them -- and gave an example from my working days. This son didn't really WANT to sound negative but he needed to get this out. I was glad he did. He seemed much more relaxed afterward. I think he has been adversely affected the most, by our dysfunctional marriage. He's a smart young man. I pray for him.

 

This evening's gathering in my little bachelor suite, I feel, turned out to be a good idea. It was a fairly relaxed atmosphere in which to present my sons with a glimpse of our marriage from my perspective. It was easier on all of us this way, than as if I had tried to do it one on one, because the group as a whole seemed to act as a buffer for each individual.

 

It was suggested that maybe sometime, when I am up to it, we could get together like this again, only with Zed included. I agreed, leaving that decision open-ended.

 

We laughed and had a good time together, too! It was quite amazing, really. It meant a lot to me that they ALL came when I asked, without hesitation, specifically to have this Talk. I'm a blessed mother!

[Crystal]

Good report! It was nice that your oldest son was allowed to say how he feels without judgment.  Do you think this is the best understanding they have had of the heart-hurt in your relationship?  Sounds like a warm bonding time to me.  Love-love-love!!   

[MaryJane]

Yes, thanks Crystal!  I think our talk did give my sons a little clearer understanding of how their parents' marriage has been affecting their mother. 

 

This evening, Zed phoned and we had a big long conversation.  He misses me.  It appears that he is being forced to make some efforts to at least consider that he might be able to do something about this separation we are in.  Most of the time he thinks he can't change, or that the changing may take a lifetime.  At first, I reacted somewhat badly to some subject that came up.  Forget what.  Then, we kept talking and seemed to make a little progress, maybe, in Zed getting the picture better.  I don't know.  I felt a tinge better, at least.

 

Don't worry, I'm not running home any time soon.  Maybe we'll work on our marriage by phone for awhile.  I can sense attitude 80 miles away just as well as when we're in the same room.

 

Anyway, I have a very enjoyable event coming up.  My sister is arriving on Saturday, to visit me for a WEEK!  She's leaving her husband at home and driving the 800 or so miles by herself.  She probably won't mind those hours alone, since she works full time in a busy office and has daughters and two grandchildren near her to keep her occupied.  She is 12 years younger than me and my only sister.  There are 3 brothers in between. 

[Crystal]

Enjoy your sister time!  

[MaryJane]

Thanks Crystal!  We both fully intend to! 
 

---

 

Today, Zed phoned again and we had another rather enlightening conversation.  He very carefully and cautiously asked if would give him some encouraging words.  He felt he needed this to help with the impetus to make these HUGE changes I'm asking for in order to come home to him.  So, I mentioned a few things I like about him.  He's heard them all before, but, that's all I could come up with on the spur of the moment.  I think the main point of this exercise was that he was humbling himself to ask for my help. 

 

Our youngest son, who lives 800 miles away has been talking to Zed on the phone, giving him suggestions.  Zed told me that Son 4 talked about humility!  He told his dad how he works things through in his mind to keep from getting defensive with his wife.  He gave an example of a time she made an incorrect complaint about him by using the words, "you always."   

 

Zed also talked about seeing how he has been living with me in cycles.  That is, I LEAVE, he gets desperate, calls on the Lord, has a revelation, does right by me for awhile, then gradually ends up resentful and etcetera with me.  Yup, that's how it is.  And that's why I don't get excited anymore when he starts "seeing the light." 

 

It's also why I think standing on my decision to not live with him in a married way until he doesn't smoke anymore is what I have to do.  THAT will require consistency and a nice close relationship with The Lord, I figure.

 

I know all of you know this, but I want to say it anyway.  I'm not doing this to be spiteful.  People (well at least two) keep saying, "Oh, that's so hard!"  To quit smoking.  My idea is, lots of people do it, and many of them don't have a relationship with God!  Besides, I've come to hate it.  It interferes with every part of our lives together!

 

Good night!  My sister arrives tomorrow night!  Well, tonight, theoretically.

[Crystal]

I haven't commented on your No Smoking point because I didn't fully understand it until you explained it in this post.  This makes perfect sense to me now and I don't see why it didn't make sense before! Do you think he understands what you explained here that it will demonstrate sincerity and consistency and love to you in a way nothing else will?  FD quit smoking about 10 years ago. I don't remember what his motivation was at that time.  I know he didn't WANT to quit, but he did it cold turkey and it proved to me that he can take control and he isn't a helpless victim of himself.  I don't think he knew at the time what his quitting taught me about him.  

 

I like that Z recognizes and talked about the cycles and the hurt they cause.  "seeing the light" is a big area of contention for us too and I don't ever accept it.  A lot more Living the Light for me please. 

 

Again, enjoy your sister time!!  Nothing for me is such a healing balm as spending quality time with one of my sisters.  Be blessed!

 

 

Edited June 28, 2014 by Crystal

[4evrHZdtr3]

I'm with you on this one, MJ. I understand what you are asking and why. Stopping smoking also requires personal sacrifice and that is so important in becoming Christ-like!

[4evrHZdtr3]

Also, as far as "living  the light" - I have had some experiences lately in my prayer times in which God has tried to open up some long sealed doors to areas of my heart.. I have fled because the darkness is more familiar. i am just now able to say: "I see that I have been running from YOU, God as if You are bad or what You are showing me is too hard or too scary.. My solution?  More LIGHT please...

My recommendation? 

We should pray for more LIGHT to heal the souls of those we love and to bring more personal revelation. A sneak attack that works!  

[justhoping]

Mary Jane I have followed your no smoking issue with some interest. I have been praying about this since you posted a few weeks back and hope it will be all right if I share a few thoughts. A question I have about this is do you think this is from God this issue of stop smoking or is this from man? I wonder based on your statement “There are three main changes "I" need you to make, though. Quit smoking completely and for ever.” If this is not of God than I really question how successful this endeavor will be.

 

I am an ex-smoker so hopefully I can speak with at least a little authority. It is a very addicting habit to say the least. Many try to quit, failing once or twice if they are every lucky enough to actually quit. I quit for about 3 years and then started again, smoked for about another year and then quit and it has been 20 years or so now. Not saying I could not start smoking again, I could in a heartbeat. Be prepared for changes in your husband that you cannot even begin to imagine. Nothing may happen just saying that it can. I can show you one person who really tried and became such a bi**h that the family and coworkers ask that they start smoking again. The personality changes were that bad. Many people will gain a lot of weight, I did. I can take you to the grave of one who never was able to kick the habit. The last time I saw the person they were smoking through the hole in their throat. One would assume that the Doctors and family told this person they needed to quit, however it would appear that even the threat of death was not enough to make them change.

 

You say his smoking interferes with your relationship. I may be out of place, but was he smoking before you were married? If so and you were convicted that smoking would interfere with your relationship why did you marry this person? Kind of like one spouse being a vegetarian and the other not. After marriage then it becomes a BEEF (pun intended) and the non-vegetarian needs to eat no more beef. Excuse me but my God put beef on this earth for me to eat thank you very much! And this personally happened to me. I was unable to help in the reproduction process and my spouse knew this going into marriage as I was up front with them with what the problem was. However once we married then it became a huge issue. So what does one do with that? Now if we are talking about issues that are sin, such as porn that one did not know about ahead of time then that is a completely different issue. There you certainly have the right and should say it stops and stops now or there is the door.

 

Personally going into marriage some of the things I looked at in my spouse was a non-smoker and one without tattoos. Those 2 issues were deal breakers for me. For the next person they would not be a problem at all.

 

Mary Jane if God is directing you to do this than by all means proceed. One could assume that He is directing your husband to quit too. This will certainly be a challenge and he will need all the support that God, family, and friends can give. At least I did and even years latter that support is still helpful.

[Looney_Tunes]

Justhoping, I'm going to address a couple of your comments if you don't mind. I'm not speaking for MJ ... she can certainly speak for herself! ... but you brought up a couple of ministry principles here that I'd like to comment on.

 

I wonder based on your statement “There are three main changes "I" need you to make, though. Quit smoking completely and for ever.” If this is not of God than I really question how successful this endeavor will be.

 

 

Our understanding of marriage here is based on Ephesians 5:25, where God says that a man should love his wife as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. If he is to give himself up, then certainly he can give his cigarettes up.

 

Your comment suggests ... and please correct me if I am not understanding you ... that MJ somehow does not have the right to ask Z. to give up smoking. She does. It doesn't matter if he was smoking when they married or not. We all grow and change, and things that were working, or at least tolerable, 10 or 20 years ago may not be now. Similarly, if MJ had a habit that Z. felt was interfering with their relationship, he would have the right to gently bring it up to her.

 

And this personally happened to me. I was unable to help in the reproduction process and my spouse knew this going into marriage as I was up front with them with what the problem was. However once we married then it became a huge issue. So what does one do with that?

 

 

That is a little different. It is not something you could control. If your husband had not realized before you were married how important it was to him to have children - and sometimes people don't - then he needed to be willing to either let that go, or adopt.

 

Smoking is a behavior. Not only is it simply not necessary, it's harmful. There is absolutely no benefit to Z. to continue it. Yes, it's difficult to stop, but anyone who has the necessary level of motivation can stop. People do it all the time. There is plenty of help out there for people who want to quit. And I know MJ - she would not expect him to quit cold turkey. She would be loving and supportive.

 

So the real issue here is not the smoking at all ... it's the condition of Z.'s heart. He is faced with a choice - his marriage, or his cigarettes. One would think it would be a no brainer. An expensive, dirty, potentially lethal habit, or his wife? And the fact that it is not a no brainer for Z. - that he is not willing to say Of course! I love you. It's going to be hard, and I'm going to need help, but you are more important than a pack of cigarettes - speaks volumes.

 

A man who is not willing to give up cigarettes is most likely hanging onto some other things that God would like him to give up - pride and control, for example. In the end, this is really about surrender to Christ.

 

He who loses his life will find it.