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Z and I had been doing well since the last post. We were pretty much breezing through life until Wednesday night...


Then began yet another bump! It felt like the end of the world, as they say.


Z had called me outside that evening to look at the clouds. They were very beautiful. Then, out of nowhere, he was saying something very "seductive", shall we say. I was NOT prepared for it. He had not touched me all evening and maybe all afternoon. I don't know, it just hit me wrong. I didn't like it. I felt "turned off". I'm not very often like that. My response to him was full of hesitation.


Anyway, later on, I asked Z if he had "lost interest". He said my lack of enthusiasm earlier had "turned him off". I told him I need some romance first. (He knows what to do.) He said he's not romantic.


The next day, Thursday, we talked about it some more. I reminded him that I need touches, hugs, compliments etc. all throughout the day. "Strange", he said. "I don't understand it", he said. Frustrated, I felt.


He made himself give me a touch once that day, and he suggested the conference call that evening. He only listened for 10 minutes, then left the room. I didn't actually feel up to listening right then either, so turned the phone off until much later when I was alone. At least, I knew Z had been trying to get us back to a good place, so I slept better than I had the night before.


Then, Friday (yesterday), we BOTH made real efforts to do our parts well. Z gave me nice touches and hugs throughtout the whole day. We had unexpected company at noon (aunts and uncles of Z's). We had 2 or 3 hours to prepare and Z helped! That was so nice, working together on a project like that, with smiles and true co-operation!


After they were gone, Z and I sat/lay on the couch together and watched a movie. He was VERY romantic and I told him so. I responded warmly this time!


Looks like we're motoring along in that convertible, again, the wind blowing through our hair. It only took a day and a half to get over a bump in the road that time!


Praise the Lord! ::clap

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I have some ramblings to post, but for now it's just going to be a picture. :D


290sfi8.jpg Son 3 has just proposed MARRIAGE to his girlfriend!


This is the ring and one of the flowers he gave her. (Her mother is the photographer!)


::love Ahh! Young love! ::love

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Congrats, Mother of the Groom to be!


Your account of the "romance needed" in your relationship was very encouraging. I am still amazed that any husband would be frustrated, when presented with the request for romance in order to elicit sexual interest for their wives. You'd think that the reminder that the sexual satisfaction equasion has to include romance would be embraced heartily. It is only that nasty little selfishness that raises its head and demands it own way, in its own time, that is the "responder" in the husband.


You guys both did so well: continuing to connect verbally, making an effort at the calls, deciding to do-over for the next day, and not allowing the unexpected (visitors) to rob you of the opportunity to love on each other.


Here's my applause for your triumph: ::clap ::clap ::clap


It's always encouraging to see a man who is teachable, who then makes the growing oneness a possibility, where at one point it was only A Dream. So happy for you, M.J.

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Thank you, Firewalker, for your good words!


I should have written an update sooner, because things have gone downhill again, since my last post.


It's hard to enjoy a family gathering, and not enjoy it, at the same time.


ALL four of our sons have been here and in the area all weekend -- along with their 3 girls (one is a wife, one a fiancee and one a girlfriend)! They were celebrating Son 3's engagement. It was great!


EXCEPT, underneath it all, I felt uneasy and off-balance because our marriage is suffering. Z has been down in the dumps and not taking my requests for loving actions, well.


I wrote a note and gave it to him this morning before I left for church. He didn't go to church. We had gone to the city TWICE last week for some celebrating with the fiancee's family. He sure wasn't going to go to CHURCH too!


He's being friendly with the other family, talking to them freely, but with me he's being glum. I think he thinks I'm asking for too much. Today he even played some baseball with the boys and enjoyed it immensely! But with me, he's still being glum.


The note, which he would have read this morning:


Z, would you give me another apology, from your heart, for the coldness you showed me last week? I need you to try to understand how hurt & unloved it made me feel.


I can't bear coldheartedness or the oppression of those moods. You've got to get rid of that thing that makes you so upset at people! It hurts me -- not them!


I need you to hold me and apologize with the warmth I know you have in you! Your arms are so life-giving when you choose to love me that way.


I need you to love me Z, so I can freely love you with all my being!




He hasn't said anything about the note yet. The sons and their girls have been around all afternoon and evening, of course. If he wanted to he could have worked SOMETHING in, though.


Tonight, before going upstairs to bed he gave everybody a hug. He was going to leave me out, but I insisted on a hug, too. He said, "You're around all the time." (That's some kind of reason?) He did hug me and it was a pretty good one. Son 3 happened to be looking on and commented how nice it was. They all still think we're doing well. I can hardly bear it if I had to disappoint them.


I'll try to report how tomorrow goes, but have a feeling there will be no "heartfelt apology" or any such thing.


He's been depressed ever since his aunt was visiting. She talked too much. That's true, but why would he have to go into a huge funk because of it? She was only here for about 3 hours.


I think he needs to be on an anti-depressant or something.

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Nemo told me last night : talk less, act more. :huh:


I guess he is giving me permission/encouragement to "disconnect"?


Now that I am getting busier with the kids . . . no problemo nemo. Let me know when you are "in" 100%". UNtil then, gotta go play with da kids. See ya!


sigh . . . :rolleyes:

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Nemo told me last night : talk less, act more. :huh:


I guess he is giving me permission/encouragement to "disconnect"?


Now that I am getting busier with the kids . . . no problemo nemo. Let me know when you are "in" 100%". UNtil then, gotta go play with da kids. See ya!


sigh . . . :rolleyes:

I just read this now. Not entirely sure what he means by that...




I'll try to update later today. It's good. :)

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It means that when he gets all self-righteous inside, I have his permission to send him to the couch.


All the while he fully knows that I barely posses testicular fortitude to do this. I am such a weenie!


We marry on our own level!

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It means that when he gets all self-righteous inside, I have his permission to send him to the couch.


All the while he fully knows that I barely posses testicular fortitude to do this. I am such a weenie!


We marry on our own level!

That's interesting. I don't see you as a weenie! I know a confident woman can feel the total opposite with her husband, though.


Maybe it's a good thing he's given you that permission. He's trying to help you help him, I guess. :D Maybe he'll send himself to the couch next time you give him a hint that he's being self-righteous. Or, maybe he'll quit being self-righteous!




Update still in process.

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On Sunday, at church, I went forward and asked the pastor to pray for Z. I told him I thought Z was in depression so much that it interferes with ALL his relationships -- not just ours. He prayed that Z would recognize this! I thought, "Yes, that's it!"


So, yesterday, Monday, after the last of our sons left, Z started the talking process -- for which I'm thankful!


He still sounded grouchy, of course, but that's understandable. He said I had cursed him in my note! I, naturally, disagreed and didn't take any of my words back.


He said I should have said something sooner and not let the problem go on so long. I agreed and I think I apologized. He was definitely right about that.


Then Z went for a drive.


I believe he called on God in earnest.


When he came back, he said something like this:


I'm sorry for saying those hurtful things to you (ie. that I had cursed him, etc.). It wasn't your fault. I know I've been walking in a cloud of oppression and depression. I want to make it up to you.


I agreed that it WAS a cloud of oppression. Then I was able to respond warmly -- to receive a back rub, for example.


We got on the Monday night conference call. Z talked about dying to self and going to God for help to do it. He also said he was thankful for this marriage ministry, that there is none like it!


After that we finished watching a pretty good movie. Then...


Today has been fine. I got a few nice touches, a couple of hugs, and some companionable looks. AND, Z took me to "Music In The Park" at our little town tonight! It was lovely!

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I'm tired.


I'm going to give a report, concisely, to best of my ability.


Things had been going reasonably well up til now. Ted's been giving me nice little touches as much as he possibly can -- which is about 3 times a day. I can make do with that as long as he's PLEASANT!


Sunday morning, I braced myself waiting to see if he was going to go to church with me. Finally, I asked him, since he didn't appear to be getting ready and it was getting later and later. He said, "No, I don't feel like it." He did not say this nastily. He just said it.


I immediately, inside my head, flew off the handle. His brief statement took me right back to all the times when he baulked so badly at even just ME going to church. It reminded me of how he looks down his nose at so many Christians, at churches, at a lot of people in general. My mind went on a spree -- in spite of going to church myself and worshipping God.


So all day Sunday, I was cool towards him. It wasn't too hard since we had Son 2, his fiancee, and her friend here.


Today, I knew I had to say something, rather than let "it" go on for days.


Actually, Z was the one who started the ball rolling, for which I was thankful. I forget exactly what he said. He was giving me an opening, on purpose, which was good. Didn't help much though.


I asked him what he had meant yesterday when he said he didn't fell like going to church.


He turned away, his guard up, and said, "I didn't feel like going."


I asked, "Were you tired or something?" (Looking for a reason, any reason.)


He said, "No, I just didn't feel like going."


Now he was upset.


He said a bunch of stuff that I'm going to put down, although it may not be in order.


Said in an accusatory tone -- That's why your brother and brother-in-law became pastors. They didn't want to sit in the pew and do nothing. (One of his complaints about churches.)


Concerning the fact that I keep wanting him to attend church with me, regularly, and he's NOT going to! This one hurt the most. If it's going to mean the breakup of our marriage then so be it.


I said, unnecessarily, "If you went long enough they'd probably give you a position." I didn't mean to say "position" but that's what came out. "I don't want a position," he said.


"I don't think you want a hug now," he said, later on. I replied, "No, it wouldn't do any good." He got a knowing look on his face and said, "I was right!"


This was an accusation: You just want a life like your mother gave you. Your whole life revolved around the church!


"Is there something wrong with that," I asked? (Don't remember his response.)


I said, "A hug won't help the fact that you value staying home from church above being married to me."


There's coercion and control on both sides. He said something like that. I said, "Yes", in disgust.


He also stated that I was having a tantrum. (It was a pretty quiet one.)


I'm not crying now. Was awhile ago. No no, not in front of him!


Was I overreacting? Can anyone tell me?

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It seems to me you were triggered by the past pain.

If he didn't want to go to church, it likely might "feel" like he wasn't going to go to church much anymore. Like he resigned himself from any need for the body of Christ in his life. But, it might just be a bad day for him, one that going to church seems more like a chore than a joy. In which case, he was being authentic. That is a good thing.

Thanks for taking the time to post so thoughtfully, Firewalker. I want to reply more thoroughly later. I think you're right about the above.


I asked him what he meant in a non-aggressive tone.


We still haven't talked anymore.


I don't like this.


He's trying to be friendly, too. His words are still hanging in the air between us, though. He may not "see" them, I suppose...

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You are NOT over-reacting.


You are his one-flesh wanting to worship the Lord as One-flesh, period.


He is resisting you. His history is in the "NOT going" and he went for a few weeks and then returned to "not going", right?


He needs you, just as God knew Adam needed Eve.


That which checks your spirit, checks the LORD'S SPIRIT. Trust it! Your are his helpmeet and it is NOT good for him to be alone says the Lord!


If he wants to put actions which seperate your spirits ABOVE actions that don't, then that is EXACTLY what he is saying to the Lord.


For it is NOT ABOUT wheher or not he WANTS to go "to church". Its about whether or not he wants to be with you!


And I mean "with you" more than just physically. A wife wants her husband to be WITH HER in mind, heart, spirit, AND body.


Adam was WITH her.


Christ DIED in order that we will be WITH him. So too must Z die to his selfish little wants of "independence". God wants him to be WITH you to protect and care for YOUR heart, not vice verse.


He signed up to be married. Its high time he accept the responsibilities of such a vow.


If he breaks relationship by not going to church, feel free to break relationship in other ways.


If he calls it "manipulation", then you call it "neglect" and "disregard" of your heart. He broke covenant first. Your heart, in matters of God, matter. Especially to God.


FW's post is well thought out, yes, but it forces the wife to live in an understanding way with a man who is resistant to her yearnings to be one before God.


It is good that he is praying, yes, but he is staying in HIS little comfort zone and doing NOTHING to get into YOURS. That is not growth and he needs to grow in this area as Christ demonstrated and did for him.


Just my $.02

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Dory and MJ - how about if we move this topic back out to the public section? I doubt there is anything now that needs to be private?

I'm for it! Only let me go to " Ministry to that wife whose husband is working to win her heart back", OK?

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MaryJane, you might possibly be the one person who hates conflict even more than I do! :)


It hurts me to hear the pain in your voice and I sense that you feel somewhat trapped


and without any solutions. I will be praying for you and hopefully the book (Why does he do that)


will really speak to you.

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