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Sounds like Mark doesn't have a clue how to heal his own wife.. so he's made a new Gospel!!


The truth is that anybody can heal anybody's emotions when they walk in Christlike love.. accepting, listening, validating, encouraging and strengthening...

I do it for Marissa all the time..


And until your heart knows, you will keep wondering if you're being too picky. I AGREE!


It's OK to be YOU, MJ, and to need what you need. You don't need the same things I do - but then I don't need the things you need. That doesn't make your needs or mine wrong. They are just different, and we both have the right to expect the man we are married to to meet them. If he won't, we have two choices - leave, or find a way to enjoy life despite the marriage.


Couldn't have said this better...

My prayer for you sweet MJ, is to find the peace you want and need in the middle of this storm... Your heart knows what is right.. because Jesus lives in you! And He is a LIGHT unto your path...

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Sometimes, it's very annoying to pick out a post on the iPhone. :( I just lost a good start I had made.


Anyhow, I was busy quoting bits and pieces and thanking you guys for all your good words! I very much appreciate you!


Thanks, 4evr, for mentioning how you are able to bring emotional healing to your daughter by listening and validating, etc. Proof that such a thing IS possible!


Z took me to a special service at church tonight at 6:30 pm. He asked me if I would like to go to Tim Horton's for soup (or whatever) first. I agreed because I liked the idea.


It was a good service with a group of young adults from a city about 3 hours away. They provided their own worship music, a powerful testimony by a young guy, and a short sermon by their leader.


Z chose to go forward for prayer afterward and asked me if I'd like to too. I did. The leader guy was the one who happened to pray for us. Z was all friendly and cheerful telling the guy his requests -- one of which was for our marriage. I leaned toward the man and said we needed a big HUGE prayer for our marriage!


He was pretty good, although he did briefly mention, only once, the idea that the wife is meant to respect her husband. He actually emphasized to Z that women feel things much more strongly than men. Z commented on that later. He found that interesting. I told him that Joel says that too -- even though I know he doesn't want to hear Joel's name mentioned. He made no reply.


I was unable to do much of anything besides sob when the man was praying -- mentioning forgiveness and so on. I think I was feeling angry! It worries me that I'm feeling such anger stirring around inside.


I'm really not talking to Z or having much to do with him. I barely talked on the drive home ftom church. And he's being nice.


I suppose I'll have to say something substantial to Z tomorrow.

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Actually, I think all that anger is really GOOD! I think it's about time.... I think MJ is starting to come alive!


I hope that isn't offensive to you! I probably would have walked out when the man said something about respecting husbands... because from everything you've shared here, you HAVE been respecting Z.. above and beyond!!


Just a little aside.. I was talking on the phone tonight with a psychologist that I had seen last year- I was asking him if he thought Marissa would benefit from having some therapy after all the junk B. has been pulling... his bottom line after I described how I was working to listen and validate- like we have been taught in this ministry... was :

1. Do you know how rare that is to have a relationship with your daughter like that?

2. I really like what you are doing.

3. That sounds good to me.

4. I think she would only need help if she asks you for it.


I don't mean to do a takeover on YOUR thread, but I am sharing so you can see that it is not just this ministry that supports these type of loving interactions.. but a psychologist with more than 30 years of experience helping all kinds of people from many different faith walks.. because it's God's way of loving...


And YOU deserve that!!

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Ladies, you are GOOD!




This morning Z and I tried to talk. I told him I was angry. Well, here's some of an email I sent to Joel and Kathy today.


You know what? I'm going to go to the library to finish this post. It's too fiddly to write very much with the phone. Ttyl!

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Well, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing or not, but... I'm at a women's shelter.


It smells funny here. I think it could be from old bleach. Anyway, I had a session with a nice lady counsellor and she asked me if I would like to stay. I decided, yes. She said I fit the criteria. Emotional abuse.


I've been thinking of getting an inexpensive room or apartment here in the city anyway. This gives me some time, I guess, to think.


Maybe they can help me somehow. I asked if she thought t would be a good idea, if Z really wants the marriage, to ask him to get involved in some programme here where they might reveal to him his wrong attitudes about women and people in general.


It's really weird because Z has been pretty nice for most of two weeks. That makes me feel like I'm overreacting, wanting to get my own apartment -- and maybe work on our marriage from there.


I'm so tired.


Got my car stuck in snow outside this building. Guess I'll go see what I can do about it. Have to hand in my room key every time before I go out.

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I am SO PROUD of you!!!!! :) :) You are going beyond what you think is right and looking for what really is right.. and you will find it!!!


As you already know.. my story is similar to yours.. My husband spent all the years of our marriage being nice to me... cooking for me.. sharing the housework.. buying me flowers.. praying with me... BUT his heart was far removed from true love and from God.. I just couldn't see how deceived he was because he was so nice all the time!!!


All the really ugly stuff that is going on now.. that's always been in his heart... he's always been angry that he couldn't do what he wanted when he wanted, his way.. He tolerated me as long as I fit into his plans or he could appease me with more gifts or acts of service...


God will direct your steps...

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Thank you for those encouraging words, 4evr. An interesting thought, going beyond what I think is right and looking for what really is right.


Woke up after sleeping about 3 and a half hours. Thought I might as well get on the forums.


I listened in on the last half hour or so of the call tonight, on Skype on my iPhone. It seemed so far away. I feel cut off from everybody. Everything about life, at the moment, seems so unnatural.


Why can't I just be at home, happy?


Z phoned this evening (last evening) wondered how my counseling session went. I told him I was going to "stick around" here in the city "for awhile" to take in some more help. He wondered if I was going to get a hotel room. I said they have beds here where I spoke to the lady. I carefully avoided saying I was at a women's shelter.


He's still being kindly.


I still don't trust that kindliness -- and that makes me feel like a heel.



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Warning.. hard words ahead.. but I care for you!


I still don't trust that kindliness -- and that makes me feel like a heel.


Please re-read my post above one more time... This one statement you have made is the essence of the problem. If Z. believes he is a good man who doesn't need to die to self.. then pouring on the kindness is the way he leaves you feeling off balance -"like a heel" and the reason is this:


He is not consciously pouring on kindness because he is trying to leave you off balance.. he's doing it because it makes him feel good and because he knows -at least in the past- that it has kept you content and in your place- in other words near him so that he feels secure with you by his side. All self serving, not LOVING.

A good question for him to answer might be this: Does he want the marriage? Or does he want YOU?


It also works to blunt the sting of his conscience. (selfish)


So what happens for you- especially if your love language is acts of service or quality time.. like mine are...


you look at all the kindnesses -and you enjoy them- and you see the effort being put forth- and you appreciate them.. but your inner radar is going off- "somethings rotten here.. I can smell it.." but you can't find the poop pile so you tell yourself you are imagining it and you start feeling like a heel.


Z's acts of kindness are partially motivated for his love for you... but I can almost guarantee you that there is a STRONG underground river of self protection running through them and that is why you are angry and feel like a heel. Why nothing fits... Because he's refusing to minister to you in the way that you have asked him to. He's saying instead that he will do what he wants to do - and you should be happy.. he hasn't died and he hasn't given you his heart in sacrificial love. If he had, you would know it immediately.

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Once again, 4evr has saved me a bunch of typing. I think I'm just gonna follow her around the forum and agree with her. ;)


Stop "shoulding" yourself, MJ. You are telling yourself that you should trust Z. because he is being nice, when in reality there is no basis for that. What he is actually doing is using the niceness to manipulate you. Your internal radar recognizes that - hence the squirrely feelings you have - but your brain is telling you that you should take him at face value and trust him. There's no evidence for that. He hasn't proven himself to be trustworthy.


I'm wondering if you are confusing kindness with trust . . . you can be kind to him in return without trusting him. In this case, you are doing the kindest thing you could possibly do for him - refusing to allow his manipulation. Remember that love does the thing that is most beneficial for the recipient. It is not necessarily the thing that the recipient likes or that makes him feel good. It's like stopping the two year old from running out into the street after his ball. He will kick and scream, because all he knows is he wants the ball. He doesn't see the semi that's about to run him over. And sometimes doing the loving thing doesn't feel all that great to us either, but if the person we love is to have any prayer of growing past this situation, it needs to be done. You are not helping Z. by allowing him to treat you this way. Everyone in his life has allowed it up to this point, and that's why he's in this mess.


Z. reminds me a lot of my ex . . . his relationship with Christ is purely intellectual. He spouts a lot of scripture and spends a lot of time studying, but he doesn't get faith, and he doesn't understand the heart of Christ. That's a dangerous place to be, because he ends up forming his own opinions and taking them as gospel. He doesn't even know that he doesn't know. :(


You are doing the right thing, MJ. I do wish you could come here or go to Julie or someplace where people know you and love you, so you don't feel so alone, but I understand why you are choosing not to. I'm praying that God will bring you your Melissa there - a friend who can be a sister, who really gets you and lifts you up and catches you when you're about to fall.



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My dears! 4evr and Looney, thank you again, with all my heart!


I thought, wow, 4evr's post is EXACTLY what I need right now! It wasn't too hard to hear at all! SO good, 4evr! The following, spoke to me. Thank you!


He is not consciously pouring on kindness because he is trying to leave you off balance.. he's doing it because it makes him feel good and because he knows -at least in the past- that it has kept you content and in your place- in other words near him so that he feels secure with you by his side. All self serving, not LOVING.

A good question for him to answer might be this: Does he want the marriage? Or does he want YOU?


I didn't see how you could add to all that, Looney, but you did! I like how you talked about my inner radar. That's what my actions right now are based on, but it has seemed like I can't explain clearly, to MYSELF, why I am THIS dissatisfied with my marriage.


You two are helping me see why. It's so good!


Also, getting to know two or three of the other girls here is broadening my scope! One if them was born again in adulthood, but not until AFTER experiencing a lifetime of all kinds of abuse! Turns out she is related to MANY people around the area where Z has lived all his life and I with him for these 31 years. All those people, her aunts, uncles, and cousins were raised in an incestuous lifestyle! Horrible!


I've been talking about this marriage ministry and giving her little bits of the advice I've learned here. She said they have done "the Fireproof thing," weekend seminars, etc. her husband is still, as you can imagine, very controlling, verbally and emotionally abusive, and was heading into physical abuse.


Absolutely ridiculous!




In a few minutes I'm going to walk down the street to the place where I can finish renewing my passport.


Then I will feel free to step over that invisible line between our countries, if I get the urge.



Edited by MaryJane
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Maybe your new friend would like to join us on the call Friday night. She would be welcome. :)


And I'm glad you're renewing your passport. It's nice to know that our respective governments will allow us to get together when circumstances permit. ;)

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I'd love to introduce that girl to you guys! She's got her 3 little children with her though. It may not work out too well. I intend to give her Joel and Kathy's pamphlet though.


Yes, LRG! Those words were so right on! I'm glad you came over here and got hold of them too!


4evr, you've got my mental gears turning. A trip to California, especially to meet you, sounds in-ter-esting! If I had buckets of money, I could start on the west coast where you are. Later I could move eastward (maybe southeast) to stay with Julie and Steve for awhile, then might as well keep going and pay Kathy and Joel a visit, then back up northward to visit Looney and Eeyore and HD. Probably might as well stop in at John and Susan's too. I'd HAVE to be back in time for Son 2's wedding the end of June, though! ;)


Got my passport photo taken this afternoon. Will go down the street to the government building again tomorrow and hopefully they will okay everything and the application can be sent away.


The lady said it could take up to 4 weeks for the new passport to arrive.


Haven't called Z today and he hasn't called me.

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He called me soon after the above post. We only talked for about 5 minutes. He was being careful, not pressuring me at all to come home.


He asked if this was a place for abused women. I said yes.


I felt like crying. Didn't really.


I filled out a questionnaire tonight which brought me to mentally assent to the idea that Z has been abusive, even still, a little bit.


Still have some more reading to do from here. Maybe I'll become more convinced.

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Thank you for that video, 4evr. The spirit of Haman -- it hinders our progress, or tries to! We rebuke it and stand against it. In Jesus' Name!




I've had a good day. Visited Son 2 and wife this evening. They told me they WANT me to talk to them about what's going on, so they can support BOTH Z and me. Interesting!


My daughter-in-law said, if I talk to my sons about how things are from my perspective, it will help keep them from judging (with the wrong kind of judging). I thought that was very reasonable and perceptive of her!




Here at the shelter, the one young woman I am very interested in, was having a hard time. She feels like going "home" to her abusive husband, because she can't take it here. She has three young children here with her and all kinds of things to try to figure out about her life.


Tomorrow we hear a presentation on housing. I'm looking forward to that.



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I'm glad to hear from you... :)


Sounds like you have a very nice DIL! I wouldn't talk to them though about your side unless you really feel God is leading you to do so. It could just make things more confusing. Because the goal is really to support what God wants for your marriage.. not what Z or you want (of course I know you want what God wants! ;-) )


My guess is that she has heard an overbalance of her husband's leaning toward Z and.... being a smart woman she knows there's more to it than meets the eye, so she's asking you to help give a more balanced picture, because she's sort of caught in the middle- being aware as we wives usually are-


Of course I know God will show you, but I don't think talking to your son is the right approach.. I really think that continuing to share what God's plan is for marriage is the best knowledge they can have right now. It will help them to evaluate Z on their own without feeling like there has to be any right or wrong person to support, and it will help them to evaluate their own relationship. IF Z has done any complaining about you (??) then your staying with the Word will help them to see his sin instead of being pulled by the two opinions of two people they love.


I also think its important that they don't think of it as J& K, but as God's Word... it's so much easier to reject a person or a ministry... but rejecting God's Word is a whole different ballpark!


I once stayed at a shelter with four children- for three months. It's much harder with children because you are not only grieving the loss of what could have been in your marriage and family, you don't even have a private place to be yourself with your own children.


Ask (pray for) your friend to try and stay put if she can.it will be better for her in the long run.


Hope you are doing well...

Edited by 4evrHZdtr3
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