How does God do it?

[llama2112]

Currently living in San Antonio.

 

My wife and I first met at a bowling alley through a mutual friend whom we are both still close to. This was 5 and a half years ago. We married after almost a year of dating. At the time she was still living with her overbearing parents. I was 19, and my wife was 21. Our relationship started off beautifully, and then things became complicated. She'd grown up under an extremely controlling, and abusive father. She'd been home schooled till her entrance into college after senior graduation. Some of her personal baggage included depression, co-dependency issues, and lots of pain from the lack of a caring and loving father figure.

I saw all of this pain for what it was, and one night I asked God to make her mine so that I could love her, and keep her safe. I truly had a heart for her, but in my immaturity I failed to recognize any of my own baggage. Some of my personal weight comes from a similar background. One where my own father was present without actually being there as a father. Being taken care of , and being nurtured as a child are two completely different things. In retrospect, I believe I saw my own pain in her and much more, and desired to do for her what no one had done for me. How hopeful and blind was I to think that I would even know where to start with something I myself was completely unfamiliar with.

I've considered myself a christian since I was twelve, fell away with anger after my mother and my stepfather divorced while I was sixteen, learned my lesson quickly in half a year, and ran back to the only thing I knew would keep me from going insane. It's no epic, but i lived quickly enough that year, that I felt like I would've needed to check myself into an asylum, just to keep from hurting myself, or anyone around me. But I digress, in the end I still never quite grew out of the pain I was feeling.

I failed, obviously. In the end I hurt my wife in the very places I sought to console. My hands abused, my mouth attacked, my facial expressions scarred, and my silence killed. I was a liar, a murderer, and a scared child trying to control everything, so that I would never feel hurt or disappointed. I still have no explanation for my actions. Why did I lose my temper? Why would I yell? How could I use those awful words, and how in the world could it have ever made sense to physically abuse my wife!? The woman I loved, and sought to protect from the very pains she expressed to me, had tragically fallen victim to me. I was her knight in shining armor. But once we married, I removed my helmet, and revealed a tyrant. One I was terribly unaware even existed.

After two hard years of struggle, we thought we had our breakthrough. We both to this day can agree that the following year and a half was wonderful. We'd fallen more in love, become more docile with one another, but still didn't know what we were doing. Of course things began to fall apart after that. My wife still felt neglected because I didn't know how to listen to her heart, and was too prideful to accept the idea that I might not even know how, and should rather learn. I eventually lost my job, and began to bury myself in any busyness I could find. I had three musical projects, and a full time job applying for work. Needless to say, my wife felt even more neglected and unappreciated through this whole selfish process i had become engaged in. Not to mention, and old and very destructive habit began again in me, and I had developed an addiction to pornography. One my wife found out about, and tolerated for as long as she could. She suffered too much damage during this period.

Eventually I became frustrated and cold with her. I felt the usual prideful things. "How come she doesn't appreciate what I AM doing?", and "Why can't she just keep a cool head?". "If she would just control her emotions, things would be so much easier for us!" How wrong was I? As a side note, these bands were not just fun for me. I had made them work, and began to invest time into them to market, and perform till I was at a point where I could support my half of the fiscal efforts to the relationship through music. It was too much, at the wrong time. I was thick sculled, arrogant, and manipulative. And she... suffered... every... moment... silently.

In the end, I awoke one morning to what I can only describe as an epiphany. God showed my where I was wrong. I still didn't know how, but I was to blame for every piece of the relationship being where it was. Since then I have striven to become the man I'm called to be by being the husband I'm supposed to be. I still have so much to learn, and have only really been involved in the program for a few months now. In this time, practicing unconditional love, and what Joel and Kathy teach I've seen my wife turn from "I want nothing to do with you" to "I still love you, I just don't trust you". As I seek to become Christlike, and treat my wife like a queen, she continues to date other men, and even inform me about them. Things can seem extremely bleak at times, but God always seems to come through. I find my wife returning to me inevitably to confide in me when she feels far from God, hopeless, and hurt. Rest assured, this is only happening because of the proper teaching of marriage and agape love put into practice. As I said, I still have much to learn. I make blunders and missteps here and there. But in the end God graces me with more opportunity.

The men's calls have been paramount in my encouragement, and mentoring. I receive the correction i need, and so long as I'm transparent, I receive the correction i deserve in the manner it is needed. I'm currently trying to win my wife's heart back, by being the most unconditional lover I can be. My wife's current condition is described as "self destructing". I could be angry at her, but I would have no right. I put my wife in this position. I neglected to lead my marriage to God, and these are the rotten fruits of my labors. I'm to blame for our condition, and it is inconceivably wrong that she should also have to eat the rotten fruits of my failures. And so I fight on without any guarantee that she will ever come around, because after all is said and done. She deserves no less. She is owed my efforts to affirm that she did nothing wrong. That it was not her that failed, but only myself.

 

I intend for this long post to inform, and encourage other men that may be in my position, or a similar one. Keep fighting! We have an opportunity that few men will imagine in a lifetime! God is not so unjust as to allow your service of love to go unrecognized. Seek first his kingdom (become Christlike) and he will give you all the desires of your heart! Wait and hope for and expect the Lord; be brave and of good courage and let your hearts be stout and enduring. Yes, wait for and hope for, and expect the lord! Do not fret or have anxiety in anything, but in every circumstance and in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, continue to make your requests known to God, and his peace which transcends all understanding will garrison and mount guard over your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

 

I'll share more that I can. Details about my progress, how she responds, and the various revelations and answers I have, and will continue to receive.

With love,

-Llama

[llama2112]

So how does God do it? It seems so hard at times. Especially on the bad days.

[Charles from Cali]

Hi there... To answer your question... You already gave the answer in your last post....

 

Seek first his kingdom (become Christlike) and he will give you all the desires of your heart! Wait and hope for and expect the Lord; be brave and of good courage and let your hearts be stout and enduring. Yes, wait for and hope for, and expect the lord! Do not fret or have anxiety in anything, but in every circumstance and in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, continue to make your requests known to God, and his peace which transcends all understanding will garrison and mount guard over your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.

YOU choose to do it..... God helps . God bless!!!!

[4evrHZdtr3]

Hello...

In reading your post I would like to clarify something..

Your wife has a choice in everything just as you do. You are called by God to be her source of life and strength. That doesn't make every terrible thing that she is going through your fault... it makes it your responsibility.There is a difference. I.E. It isn't your fault that she suffered before she met you and acquired baggage. So don't beat yourself up for what happened before or the choices she continues to make right now apart from you. Once you married, it became your responsibility...Your responsibility to pray for her, your responsibility to love her and listen to her. Your responsibility to serve her. You won't heal her from your reference point, out of your experiences, by telling her how it's done. You won't heal her by thinking up good or loving things that you think she will want, need or like. That's still way too controlling. You will heal her as you create a safe place for her to land. And you create that safe place- when you position yourself in humility before God, surrendering your heart to Him. She is smart. She will figure out with God's grace which end is up! You show great insight in what you have written. Now it's time to close the gap between what you see and what you do... What you do is trust the process of letting God completely have your heart, while you love her unconditionally, trusting that God also has her heart in mind.

[Looney_Tunes]

So how does God do it? It seems so hard at times. Especially on the bad days.

 

This is why He is God, and you are not.

[llama2112]

Hello...

In reading your post I would like to clarify something..

Your wife has a choice in everything just as you do. You are called by God to be her source of life and strength. That doesn't make every terrible thing that she is going through your fault... it makes it your responsibility.There is a difference. I.E. It isn't your fault that she suffered before she met you and acquired baggage. So don't beat yourself up for what happened before or the choices she continues to make right now apart from you. Once you married, it became your responsibility...Your responsibility to pray for her, your responsibility to love her and listen to her. Your responsibility to serve her. You won't heal her from your reference point, out of your experiences, by telling her how it's done. You won't heal her by thinking up good or loving things that you think she will want, need or like. That's still way too controlling. You will heal her as you create a safe place for her to land. And you create that safe place- when you position yourself in humility before God, surrendering your heart to Him. She is smart. She will figure out with God's grace which end is up! You show great insight in what you have written. Now it's time to close the gap between what you see and what you do... What you do is trust the process of letting God completely have your heart, while you love her unconditionally, trusting that God also has her heart in mind.

 

Thanks for the replies! I like your input on responsibility vs. fault. I know i blame myself unfairly for things. Even my wife has told me as much. "You can't hold yourself responsible for everything I'm doing right now..." (slight paraphrase). I've never done anything quite like dying to myself. I'm sometimes tempted to throw in the towel, but I'm reminded by God every time that that is not what he wants me to do.

 

I've had two dates with my wife so far. On one night we went to see a movie. We were the only ones in the theater, and she told me "This would've made the perfect date when I wanted it before." My wife and I browsed a thrift store afterward, I bought her a couple of cute tops she liked, then took her out to one of our favorite taco shops. When I took her home, she sent me a text that read "Thanks again for dinner" (she doesn't have a lot of money since our separation, so I do what i can to treat her. Sometimes I'll pick up some groceries for her). I responded, "Of course! Thanks for accompanying me, it was nice." She said "It was nice... thanks".

Only one week later, would my wife find herself in one of the worst positions ever. My wife against better judgement and warning from her roommate, met up with someone she met on a dating website. She ended up going to his house, and through verbal attrition was made to feel that in order to protect herself it would be better to "consent" than to refuse. Even after the deplorable act, she was verbally assaulted by this person, and his roommates. My wife summed up this awful experience, with statements like "It is what it is, I'm over it..." (bull), "I put myself in that situation, it's my fault..." (do i need to say it!?!) When my wife came to confide in me, I listened and comforted her. God gave me amazing grace... I've tried to give her gentle reminders that this situation is not something you are simply "over", that she could be in shock, and the actual hurt may be laying just under. She isn't speaking to me about it, and I'm not pushing the issue. When she brings it up, I offer as much loving advice as I can. She says she feels safe with me to tell me things, but I know my wife. She doesn't face things, she runs from them, she always has. I don't know what to do, she has predictably asked me not to tell anyone, but I feel like something needs to be said... this issue has really left me concerned, confused, and heart broken for her. Aside from the usual seeking of the Lord, and agape love, what do i do!?

After about a week, we've gone on another date, yesterday. I took her to get a new state ID, then went to have lunch. She wanted to go to the mall where the only real father figure she had (A gentle old man, that used to be a coworker of hers) works. This man was a witness to our marriage, so it seemed significant that she would be willing to visit him with me present. As it turns out, he was on vacation, so we had lunch together, and browsed around the mall together. At one point a song came on over the mall music, and she began to sing along to it. "I miss, everything about you..." LoL, she hit me on the arm about halfway through the song. I told her "Oww, don't hit me... Never mind, I'm sorry, you can hit me." lol. She's said some very hopeful things to me these past couple of weeks, like "I still love you, I just don't trust you right now.", and "No matter what I decide, I know we're going to be like best friends for the rest of our lives."

It's painful, because she says these things, and then she appears to back off a bit. Well, same night of the day of our mall date, she's going to go on a "third date" with someone else she met on this cruddy dating website her "friends" have introduced her to. She says she told him that she wasn't looking for anything serious, that she's just dating, and yet this is a third date. Of course this will have no bearing on my desire to agape love her, and create a safe place for her. I won't lie though, this has me a little shaken. How am I supposed to learn to agape love without my helpmeet? Why when she expresses any modicum of hope for us in the future, would she even bother with dating anyone at all!? Thing is, my wife and I are not divorced. She knows that I won't file, I told her i won't give up on us. She says she's looked at how to file herself, but she is yet to. I know for a fact that she feels unworthy of what I'm offering her, she's told me as much. All I respond with is "Your worth is immeasurable, and you've deserved no less than what I'm attempting to perfect, for your entire life."

Please, someone offer me some advice... I'm concerned about my wife. I know it's been said that by God's grace, she will figure out which end is up. But what am I supposed to do if my wife puts distance in between us, and further more, if she can express any measure of hope for us, then why would she run so easily!? This just isn't making any sense to me. I prayed, and sought God the other night. I asked him to reveal to me what he was doing... He lead me to Psalm 55. It seemed like a direct answer to my prayer! Praise God that he never abandons us. But I feel like at this point, it's become a spiritual battle (as it mostly always has been). I have lots of support from my family, and even hers (who she has cut out of her life), but few of them actually understand what is being taught here. I know I'm not alone, but i feel like I am at times.

 

...more to come later.

Edited October 2, 2012 by llama2112

[Rebuilding Trust]

Let me just encourage you to hang tight, keep dying to self, and don't give up.

 

Forget about the dating site, the third date or the hundredth date. None of this changes what you are called to do, which is to Agape love your wife. She is currently going out on dates with you which is great. If you make this about anything other than just Agape loving her than you will prolong this process and probably loose your opportunity to keep dating her. You think this is hard now, it gets much harder (but not impossible) when your wife wants nothing to do with you. So please, don't make it about what she is doing or not doing, just make it about learning to Agape love her.

 

Read my thread, read Charles for Cali's thread, read Timothy Paul's thread. We have all been walking this out for some time and have made mistakes early in this process that probably prolonged our restorations with our wives - read them and learn what not to do but also what walking this out really looks like.

 

Trust me when I say that you have to make a choice to walk this out, once the decision is made, you then just reaffirm that choice everyday (take up your cross daily, this is where dying to self comes in).

 

Another very important step in this process is accepting 100% responsibility for pushing your wife into this place. For me at least, I don't think I could walk this out if I did not understand that my actions and lack of actions pushed my wife away and into adultery. Now, I'm all about bringing healing to my wife even if that means us not being together.

 

This first has to be about you becoming a Christ Like man, the man God created you to be. Through that process of you becoming a Christ Like man, you will also become the man your wife needs you to be. But it has to be in that order because any other order will not work. If you only are in this to win your wife back, then as soon as you get her back, you will fall back into your old patterns and will ultimately loose her again (probably for good). But if you become Christ like first, you will be prepared and ready for whatever life throws at you.....

[llama2112]

Thanks Rebuilding! This is a great reminder for me to make sure that my heart is in the right place every morning. I think my biggest challenge is in learning (or re-learning) how to pray for my wife. She tells me she feels really conflicted with me, becuase she can see a change, but she's afraid that she'll never be able to get over all the pain and dissapointing memories that she has with me. All I want to do is make up to her for the scum that I was, and show her that God's love can will, and does transcend all things. I know it will take time, but after her being sexually assualted, it feels even more challenging to keep my chin up. Not that I would abandon her, but becuase she would come to me and confide in me, and then turn around and date some other jackwagon. I know it's her choice and it should have no bearing on my choice to agape love (and it doesn't), I suppose it's just another great opportunity to die to myself. I think it's Joel who says that the bad days are actually some of the best days for this reason!

 

Is there any specific things I should be praying for my wife through this whole thing. I like to keep my prayers dynamic of course, but if there is anything that I'm missing, I'd like to know so that I can be enabled. I'll check out those other threads by the way, see what everybody else has learned so that I can progress in a healthy manner. Thanks a million everyone!

-Llama

[Rebuilding Trust]

Thanks Rebuilding! This is a great reminder for me to make sure that my heart is in the right place every morning. I think my biggest challenge is in learning (or re-learning) how to pray for my wife. She tells me she feels really conflicted with me, becuase she can see a change, but she's afraid that she'll never be able to get over all the pain and dissapointing memories that she has with me. All I want to do is make up to her for the scum that I was, and show her that God's love can will, and does transcend all things. I know it will take timelama

 

The one thing that will allow her heart to come back to you is consistency, consistency and more consistency and this of course just takes time. The more consistent you can be walking this out, the more quickly things will move along....

 

As for praying for your wife - pray that God will show you how to heal her and be the man you need to be for her. Ask him to give you the strength to hear her heart, her hurts, her fears, her truth and to be able to handle it, to take it all in and respond to her in a Christ Like way. Pray for her health, pray that God will bring a Godly woman into her life that she can confide in and that will give her good counsel. And pray that God will bring out into the light anything that is within you that is hidden in darkness so that it can be dealt with....

[llama2112]

She has a "boyfriend" that lives 5 hours away, is dating another, first kiss last night apparently, but still says she has stronger feelings for me than these two guys... the heck!? I can agape love her all I possibly can, but it doesn't make this any less confusing. I've been asking God to keep her safe, and keep a protective hedge around my wife, but then why is it that things like this can happen? What is she doing? Has anyone ever seen this before? I mean, in terms of the specifics... I feel like I can only describe this as chaos, pure and simple...

[Rebuilding Trust]

The one thing that will allow her heart to come back to you is consistency, consistency and more consistency and this of course just takes time. The more consistent you can be walking this out, the more quickly things will move along....

 

As for praying for your wife - pray that God will show you how to heal her and be the man you need to be for her. Ask him to give you the strength to hear her heart, her hurts, her fears, her truth and to be able to handle it, to take it all in and respond to her in a Christ Like way. Pray for her health, pray that God will bring a Godly woman into her life that she can confide in and that will give her good counsel. And pray that God will bring out into the light anything that is within you that is hidden in darkness so that it can be dealt with....

 

I get what you are going through, trust me. I found out my wife was living with another man and then later found out that she was sleeping around on him too.

 

Is this normal, NO! But was the way we treated our wives normal, NO!

 

As I said previously, DO NOT MAKE THIS ABOUT WHAT SHE IS DOING, make this about what you need to do. It is OK to throw up here on the forum, but do not let it come out to your wife, just agape love her through this valley she is in and make sure she gets through to the other side. That is what you are being called to do and has nothing to do with what she is doing, so take your focus off of her and put it onto being Christ Like!

 

Hang strong and don't give up, there is a mountain on the other side of this valley!

[Charles from Cali]

I just landed in Ohio.... Your thread is the first thing I read ..... Thank you!!!!

Edited October 4, 2012 by Charles from Cali

[llama2112]

I get what you are going through, trust me. I found out my wife was living with another man and then later found out that she was sleeping around on him too.

 

Is this normal, NO! But was the way we treated our wives normal, NO!

 

As I said previously, DO NOT MAKE THIS ABOUT WHAT SHE IS DOING, make this about what you need to do. It is OK to throw up here on the forum, but do not let it come out to your wife, just agape love her through this valley she is in and make sure she gets through to the other side. That is what you are being called to do and has nothing to do with what she is doing, so take your focus off of her and put it onto being Christ Like!

 

Hang strong and don't give up, there is a mountain on the other side of this valley!

 

Well, I want to know if i did the right thing then. Last night I went to pick my wife up from her work. I asked her how her day was, the usual small talk about her day that she always wanted from me. She wanted me to drop her off at her roommates workplace (a bar, she's been living fast lately), but then stopped herself short and said "Well let me call her and see if she is even there yet.". She called and told her friend "I'm just going to have *llama* come with." She got the okay. Well, it was karaoke night, and things were going really well, she kind of had her nose buried in the phone, so much so that she wasn't really paying attention to anything around her, so i playfully said "pretty girl, you've got your nose buried in your phone.". "Yeah," she responded "I've always got my nose in my phone, every time I'm out I'm on my phone.". She was sincere about it, I felt like she was acknowledging it. She put her phone down, and began to make some conversation with me.

Well the night went went on, we sang some karaoke, I did some Red Hot Chili Peppers (she's always liked my singing), and she requested a song called 'Drive' from me. (lyrics-Whatever tomorrow brings, I'll be there, with open arms, and open eyes). Then she sang Lifehouse, Hanging by a moment (a song she had early in our marriage, dedicated to me. lyrics-I'm falling even more in love with you, cause when we are apart I feel it too). We did some dancing, something I had never done for her because I felt too goofy doing it, but we had fun. Things were pretty good.

At one point, she began flirting with some other guy right in front of me. funny thing is I knew she was doing it, but I didn't think that she was doing it because of me. It came out that she was doing it to tell me "You missed out, you had something great, and now you don't." Well surprisingly, this upset her roommate as she had observed the whole thing. At the end of the night as things were winding down, and the bar was closing (I know, it's a bar, not a great environment, but I'm in no place to judge here...) my wife's roommate was kind of laying into her about flirting with some guy right in front of me. To the point of reproach. I was taken aback and actually had to remove myself from the two of them because I felt that it would have put my wife in a bad place if I was there directly observing this. My wife looks up to this girl in a way, she's just really stubborn. At one point the second bartender jumped in and began telling her "You don't know this side of life, you don't know what to look out for, etc." In the end my wife told me she was sorry, that I knew this wasn't her, and that she knows it isn't her, but that she just feels so angry sometimes. She asked me if i was still picking her up in the morning. I said "Of course,".

My approach to the whole thing was, 'dead men don't talk'. I only spoke when she directly engaged me on something. And even so i tried to just make my answer one of reassurance. "You're actions have no bearing on how I feel about you, and I won't let anything you do change the path I'm trying to take to be everything I'm supposed to be. Of course I want to be with you, and I do hope I can prove myself, and rebuild your trust in me. But in the end whether you do or don't, I'm doing this because it is all you've ever deserved your entire life, and someone has to show it to you!"

She was receptive to what I had to say, and in the end let me hold her after the apologies, and her venting subsided. In the morning, after I picked her up, we were intimate, and she told me again "I really do still love you. This just comes naturally with you, I don't have to try to get into it, I'm just comfortable with you, I feel like we're in tune. I just don't feel like I have a desire to be with you." It's funny to me that she should say that since God's truth promises the opposite. But I recognize that she feels demotivated to be with me, after all, I'm supposed to initiate right? Not her. Well, I feel like I need to really learn how to do that, because truth be told, I'm too passive. I hate it, I feel like I miss out on a lot of things for it. Any tips in this area?

 

Lol, by the way, we go to work at different times, and she had torn off a neat little square of tissue, and put a lipstick kiss on it. It was neat, so I know she wasn't just wiping a bad color off. I told her "thanks for the kiss," When I picked her up from work. She said "what kiss?". I told her "this kiss you left at the vanity for me." She giggled and said "oh, that kiss. I forgot about that.".

lol, these ups and downs are killing me! I guess that's a good thing though huh? Praise report by the way. I've been praying that God would contend with those that would come against our marriage, knowing or unknowing. The "4th date" boyfriend, told her he didn't want to see her anymore. Oddly enough, that night she told me that she had tried to dance a couple of guys while she was out, and they just kind of slunk away from her while on the dance floor. My wife is beautiful, there isn't a reason that should happen. Plus, she's expressing to me that she feels frustrated by her long distance "boyfriend". God is moving. Thanks for the prayers everyone.

 

So how can I initiate better? What helps kill passivity?

 

P.S. You're welcome Charles. This stuff is tough, it'd be selfish to keep my situation to myself. Hope to help in any way I can!

[sopranosong67]

I'm brand new to this website, but I have been a Christian all my life and I have a thriving and growing relationship with God. As I'm reading through all these posts I'm reading about how a wife (who is still married to her husband) is DATING OTHER MEN while she is still married, and her husband is not addressing this issue with her?! I understand that as a husband he may have really "blown" it in the marriage and that he sinned against his wife and caused a lot of hurt to her and damage to their marriage. However, she is 100% wrong to be dating other men while she is still married!!! And praise God that this husband has had his eyes opened and that he is repentant and completely willing to allow God to completely transform him into the godly husband that he is supposed to be. However, the husband's past sins do NOT excuse his wife of HER PRESENT SIN of dating other men while she is still married!!!!

[llama2112]

Anybody have any feedback on this?

[llama2112]

I'm brand new to this website, but I have been a Christian all my life and I have a thriving and growing relationship with God. As I'm reading through all these posts I'm reading about how a wife (who is still married to her husband) is DATING OTHER MEN while she is still married, and her husband is not addressing this issue with her?! I understand that as a husband he may have really "blown" it in the marriage and that he sinned against his wife and caused a lot of hurt to her and damage to their marriage. However, she is 100% wrong to be dating other men while she is still married!!! And praise God that this husband has had his eyes opened and that he is repentant and completely willing to allow God to completely transform him into the godly husband that he is supposed to be. However, the husband's past sins do NOT excuse his wife of HER PRESENT SIN of dating other men while she is still married!!!!

Anybody have any feedback on this?

 

Also wanted to give an update.

 

Recently I find that I've been putting a lot of emphasis on what she does, but I feel this is because it is an encouragement to me. I take the positive things as hope, and the negative things (like bf's) with a grain of salt.

I'm not going to lie. She recently asked me if I've ever met anyone who "rocked my world," I told her, "Well yes, but it usually takes some time to determine these things..." I knew she was referencing some guy she's hung out with a couple of times. I'm not going to lie, i don't understand how she can hang out with a guy at a bar two or three times, and make such a drastic claim like that!? She told me "I know, but look at us, we didn't exactly take time." I responded "Well we did, don't get me wrong, when we stepped on the accelerator, we stepped hard, but we took some time to get familiar. Besides, we have a very special connection, an irreplaceable one that will last forever. Even with our relationship now, we can both agree to that." -Which she did.

It's just extremely disheartening. She told me for the second time through this whole thing, two nights ago, that she would rather start over and go through the hardships with someone new, than go back. She was being angry at me because I took her dancing, something she had always wanted to do with me, and I was never willing (for shame). So I understand where her angry comments came from. Once she had vented, she flipped back around and was a little more receptive to me.

I don't know how i should feel about this. I'm very hurt that she could appear to so easily put the brakes on with me just because she feels like she's developing an infatuation with someone she doesn't even know! I feel like throwing up, this whole thing has me completely off kilter emotionally. Thank God he gives me the grace to hold it together when we are together, and the strength to continue through this...

 

 

Please, I really need someone to reach out regarding this development. I know i need to just continue doing what I'm doing, but how am I supposed to respond to her when she says things like that? I want to tell her to just hang on, and give us a chance yet she claims "I've made my decision, maybe in a couple of years we'll begin something again. But right now, I'm doing what I want to do."

 

...I feel really distraught...

[Charles from Cali]

Ive been on the phone ALL night... Not joking... We were sleeping and at 2:30 am she started crying.. And it was over this other guy that recently broke her heart.. My wife is so hurt over this other guy..... Said that even though they both knew adultery was wrong .. He is in a bad marriage with 3 daughters.... Even though they both knew it was wrong.. They prayed together, shared moments, we're intimate, all of the above... Now my wife is a mess trying to filter through all his lies.. She is angry, feels like a fool.. Feels used and rejected.. But because she gave herself to him completely.. She doesn't want to believe that he was using her the whole time...... Trust me... I know what you are going through... But this is the question my wife asked me tonight... After I helped her get some peace from the tears.. She asked me what my intentions were... Am I doing this just to get her back.... ?????? I told her my heart and that I wanted to get old with her... But if her heart never returned that I would still love her and never turn my back on her.. She knows my hopes for us.. But I also have to respect her for where she is.. Emotionally and spiritually...... She believes that I love her and wants what's best for her.. She told me than NO other man would ever love her the way I am considering all the chaos...it doesn't make sense to her... She said this other guy woke her up inside, something I never did in our whole marriage.. She said she will not be in a marriage without true intimacy... How can I blame her....soooooooooooo, guess what... I'm still here, owning my part.. But it is my CHOICE to love her through this.. Even if on the other side of her pain.. She still chooses against us..... Look man.. Think about this... Your wife said that she made her decision.... But maybe in a couple of years...... Does the word maybe =decision even compute???? I can understand what Kathy says " don't hold your wife accountable for what she says.. Just love her". your wife is talking through pain which you caused.. So suck it up.. Look at her as a woman, not your wife.. Can you love her for who she is and not what she was to you?? Because believe me, your wife isn't who you think she was.. Women grow, change and blossom.. Maybe you don't see her for, out of necessity , what your abuse created.... Your wife is a rose blooming in concrete.. So stop worrying about what she is or isnt doing.. And be Christlike.. Not just to get her back.. But because she hurts......you have the opportunity to be Christ in her life.. Prove her wrong by your actions.. Not your words.. Jesus went to the cross.. He didnt just say he would . So do a gut check... And ask YOURSELF what your motives are....God bless

Edited October 8, 2012 by Charles from Cali

[llama2112]

Rest assured everyone, I know why I'm doing this. A paradigm shift such as this is not something that can be taken less than seriously. But there in lies my struggle. I've only just begun this journey, and though I feel I've grown much in so little time already, It doesn't change the fact that I'm completely knew to this. This causes so much stress on the flesh, I would've thought last year that going through something like this would have resulted in a trip to the psyche ward. But God is good! He's given me an immense amount of grace through this whole struggle, and I know he will continue to.

I understand my position, and I've no intention of abandoning it. I'm just trying to learn how to cope with it on a regular spiritual basis. Not to mention all of the emotions that well up in me since God has replaced my heart of stone with one of flesh. As a close friend of mine put it. "This is a marathon-life-not a sprint. God is faithful". And I know he is. I was reading some scriptures today, and I ran across Galatians 6: 8,9 "For her who sows to his own flesh (lower nature, sensuality) will from the flesh reap decay and ruin and destruction, but he who sows to the spirit will reap eternal life. And let us not lose heart and grow weary and faint in acting nobly and doing right, for in due time and at the appointed season we shall reap, if we do not loosen and relax our courage and faint."

Charles, had your wife ever cut communication off with you? My wife answers my phone calls typically, sometimes she sounds like she's glad I called, other times you'd think I ran her dog over with the car, and laughed about it... I know not to react to her negatively, and I feel God gives me much grace in this area. So, how does God do it? How does one reach out to someone when they aren't open to hear? Why does she waffle, sometimes willing to hear me out, and cuddle, and other times doing seemingly everything to avoid contact with me? I know it doesn't matter, I'm just trying to remain a proactive initiator. I don't ever want to feel like I didn't pursue her enough through this, yet I sure as heck don't want her to feel smothered.

 

How would God have me do it?

[llama2112]

Minor update. I've noticed that my wife tends to become overcritical of me when she's been talking to other guys. (I can tell by what and how she says things, I've been watching the patterns for three months now) Anyway. I texted "good night you! Sleep well. :)". She responded almost immediately. "I'm getting annoyed." I told her "Sorry... I'll back off, I just wanted to say goodnight.". Then she sent "Not with you." I asked her what was troubling her. She didn't respond. I texted her "Call me if you feel comfortable. I'm here for you." She responded "I know".

 

I'm probably just over thinking it, but I don't want her to feel like I'm not going to her. She's made it clear that she wants me to go to her (as in, meet her where she is at), but my wife also sends lots of mixed signals. i.e. just an hour before I had called to say hi, and see how her day was and she abruptly said she was going to go. That tells me I should just back off a bit, and yet there are times these things have happened, and I back off, then she gets at me for not pursuing her.

[Looney_Tunes]

Cheer up, your wife is normal.

 

Why does she waffle, sometimes willing to hear me out, and cuddle, and other times doing seemingly everything to avoid contact with me?

 

Because her feelings are all over the place right now. One minute she sees the changes in you and likes them, and the next minute she is sure you're snowing her and she's stupid for falling for it. Don't worry about it. Just love her where she's at.

 

my wife also sends lots of mixed signals. i.e. just an hour before I had called to say hi, and see how her day was and she abruptly said she was going to go. That tells me I should just back off a bit,

 

No, it doesn't. It tells you she needed to go. You are assuming the reason she needed to go had something to do with you.

 

The only thing that should cause you to back off are the words back off! coming from her lips. The only thing that should cause you to stop texting so much is her actually saying stop texting so much. You are not good at interpreting her behavior. If you were, you wouldn't be here right now.

[llama2112]

I think what I need to work on is (obviously) listening to my wife's heart and learning to properly interpret her behavior. Another thing I know I need to work on is to truly listen to her heart. She told me the other night "It's really confusing because I really miss this with you (She had invited me to stay the night with her a couple of nights ago, after cancelling a previous engagement with another person). I miss waking up with you, and being held by you, and I miss being intimate with you... It's just confusing because I've spoken with some people and they ask me 'is it worth saving? Do you think it's worth working on?' And others tell me it's good that I got out... So it's really confusing." At one point I was about to offer feedback and she calmly interjected with "I was kind of hoping you'd just listen..." So I told her "I'm sorry, go ahead." But I don't want to have to be told that all she wants me to do is listen, I feel I should already know to just listen...

 

furthermore I just want my pride to die already...

 

As for the update,

Obviously things have come along a bit, instead of only seeing my wife in the morning there have been a couple nights in a row now that we've actually stayed overnight. One night at her apartment, and last night at mine. We were invited to her sister's birthday celebration, so we went to that. She was tense the whole night to say the least. At one point her sister introduced me as her brother in-law, and my wife kind of snapped at her in front of everyone "Hey, no! We've been through this, don't go there!". Everyone got a bit quiet, and eventually conversation picked up again. There were only about eight people. She looked really uncomfortable, so I texted her "You doing okay?" She told me "Yeah, it's just really awkward. I don't know how to introduce you." So I responded, "Just introduce me by name. Try not to worry about it. Everyone has carried on since the introduction, just smile with us :)"

She opened up a bit after that exchange, we socialized for a bit then went dancing with my sister in-law and her boyfriend. She tried dancing with me for a bit but she just felt too awkward. (dancing is something she always wanted to do with me, and I never even just humored her) She asked me if I just wanted to walk around for a bit. On the way home I told her "I think I'm going to learn how to dance". She said "do it, I'll dance with you."

 

It appears things are coming along. I just want to make sure that I'm doing everything I'm supposed to be doing, and avoiding everything I'm not supposed to be doing. Even the 'yes men' that she's surrounded herself with are starting to warm up to me. I'm slowly being introduced into her circle of friends at the encouragement of her best friend and roommate. I just want to continue to be glimpse of Christ. I've noticed that when I feel closest to God, things go over a lot better.

 

I've recently run into some financial problems, and I'm having trouble making ends meet. I can no longer afford the men's calls, but God is good. He is Jehovah Jirah, the great provider.

 

Keep praying for us, It appears that things are moving along smoothly. I'm just trying to get through my arrested development, and become the mature man that God has called me to be, and the husband I need to be.

 

Does anyone have any feedback?

[Looney_Tunes]

It sounds like you are doing pretty well. I don't really have any feedback - just continue to stay close to God and to listen to your wife.

 

I've noticed that when I feel closest to God, things go over a lot better.

 

Yup.

 

Since you can't afford the men's calls right now, I would encourage you to post often. Not just occasional updates, but on a daily basis if possible. Tell us what you're thinking and feeling. If a conversation with your wife goes south, let us know what you said and what she said so we can help you figure out what went wrong. Tim is just as good on the forum as he is on the calls, and he's not the only one here.

[llama2112]

Thanks a bunch guys!

 

Well, I spoke with my wife the night that we went to her sister's birthday. It was before the actual gathering. she had asked me to pick some of her things up for her so we could leave right after I picked her up from work, and go straight to the party. Thing is, she asked me to bring her a nice dress that she'd left hanging up in the closet in my apartment, and a nice pair of flats for her. She's been leaving things in the apartment lately, so I knew which shoes she was talking about. However, my wife has a tendency to change her mind on the fly, when it comes to asking me to bring her things and what not. So she had asked for a pari of red flats and then told me, "No, actually bring my tourqouise ones. Or just bring both of them."

Well, I was taking care of some yard work for my roommates grandmother for a little extra cash on the side. (figured I'd pay her application fee for her new apartment, since she hasn't been paid yet). So when I got home I was in a bit of a rush, had to shower and change quickly so that I would be at her workplace on time to pick her up. In my rush, I had forgotten her red flats, and only brought her the tourqoise shoes. Well those ended up being painful on her feet fairly quickly, and wanted to know where her red flats were. I told her "Ahh, I forgot them. I'm sorry!" She repsonds very frusturated "You see you don't listen to me! This is all your fault!" I told her "I'm sorry, I remember you saying that, I don't know why I forgot them! If you want we can run back to the apartment real quick, I'll pick them up for you." She told me "No, I'll just be in these and it'll be your fault, its fine!"

I even offered to buy her a pair of flats, as we were already out looking for a gift for her sister, and she insisted against this. It almost appeared that she wanted to be in pain just to make me feel like crap about it.

A similar thing happened the next day, when she asked me to drop some food off for her, and in a simular fashion, changed her request to include a t-shirt she'd bought the night before. Again, I was in the middle of moving some things from the apartment into storage, so I was a bit distracted. But I put a lunch together for her, and because I'm awesome, forgot her t-shirt, lol! Well, she wasn't as upset about it, but she was also in front of the person that is soon to take over for my wife's position. She kind of gave me a hard time, I reacted in a similar manner, told her, I'd bring it by for her later that evening, and again she insisted against it, saying I could drop it off on the next day.

Well things got a little strange. I called her later that evening to see how she was doing, she was very calm, and appeared very comfortable on the phone with me. We spoke briefly about a change in career, and what I though I should do. She told me the one thing I always went back to was the Fire Dept, or Police. So we spoke a bit about that. I flirted with her a bit, told her that she always liked a certain picture of me when I was in a Marine Corps dress blue uniform. She agreed. I told her I would drop by later that night and drop off her shirt and an extra microwave she and her roommate could use. My wife told me to wait to do that, that it wasnt a good idea because "buttface McCheats with wives" was supposed to be going over. He's visiting from five hours away i guess, and he's just using her. Strange thing is, she's even told me she knows that he's using her. She makes fun of him to me, she'll even talk crap about him in subtle ways. Doesn't appear to get defensive if i join in on making fun of him, which I do...

Anyway, last night, I lead one of our good friends to Christ. Gave him a slip of paper with the prayer of salvation, and he prayed it. My wife has known our friend longer than I have, so I thought she might love to hear this it. It was real early in the morning, so I gave her a call, she didn't answer. I just left her a text "Hey I've got awesome news! Call me when you can!" She responded "whats going on" I asked "Can you talk?" "whats up kev" "Ryan accepted Christ tonight!" "what??? he's alwasy been a believer" "In God maybe, but to accept Christ is another thing!" "what are you doing???" "What do you mean?" "night... i'll call you later". At this point i sent "I'm sorry if i upset you, I thought you'd want to know. Sleep well (name)" She responded "mehh, don't do that... gnight"

I called her in the morning to say hi, and wish her a good day. She didn't answer at first, but called backmoments later. She was kind of indifferent with me, but not necessarily rude. Later this evening on my lunch brake, I called her and she answered, was friendly and even instigated a "cutesy" joke with me. I'm not sure how to handle those times when she seems to just blow me off.

She told me not too long ago that she intends to start the divorce process once her and her roommate have moved into their new apartment. I'm not going to lie, that has me a little concerned. None the less, I told her "That's fine, it's all at your pace. I just don't want you to think that will make me stop being how I've been. I want to keep pursuing you, and proving to you that this is real."

She replied with a simple "I know." It wasn't indifferent or annoyed, it was a genuine acknowledgement from her. Anyway, I'm supposed to help them move, and bring them a microwave tonight. Pray it goes over well.

Sidenote, what should i do on those low ebb days in regards to my faith. I felt so exhausted today, that it was a real challenge to find out how i needed to pray. How can I inspire the holy spirit on those "off" days?

[llama2112]

Well... I've screwed up...

She called me tonight after having a date with someone, let me know that it went well. Apparently the person took her to Olive Garden, which is great because I can't afford to do that for her, don't have any money! Good to know I'm in a position where I can actually compete...

At least she let me know that she feels like she's dealing with a bunch of little boys, and that only one of them seems to be showing growth toward becoming a man (hint: it's me). But that's okay, it makes total sense to feel like calling me after a date with someone else, and then fall asleep on the phone no less... So what did i do? I called her back, awoke her to tell her I was going to bring the microwave by, unless she was too tired, then I'd see her in the morning and say goodnight for now. Nope, call her back and she switches over to another line and back to inform me that her Mr. misogynist is on his way to use her and treat her like crap for the night...

I messed up.... I plead with her after hearing her talk about "Little boys that don't know how to treat a woman," and she got defensive with me. She accused me of judging her. Maybe I was? My words somewhat of this template: "Why are you even bothering with him? You know he's just a piece of crap taking you for a ride. How is it that you can tell me what you know a man should do for you, and then put up with this?"

 

Does that sound judgmental? I explained to her that I wasn't trying to judge her, that I was only trying to plead with her, because I know she wants better, as she's told me as much. She asked me what better was and what made me think I knew anything about it. I told her "I know what better is because I'm learning, and doing everything I can to become it. I may not be there now, but I'm going to reach that point, and want I wish you would just be patient to wait and see that it's true. Even though I know I don't deserve that chance."

So then she threw all of my previous abuses in my face and told me to *off. Awesome... It's good to know that God thinks I can handle this, because I have absolutely no idea how he figures... I suppose I'll just lay down, and love her while she flips me the bird the whole time and tells me to "have fun" doing what I'm doing while reminding me every step of the way that she's rejecting me... How the heck am I supposed to compete if I'm not even in the financial position to provide for my wife!? How can I fight uphill and keep going if there is nothing to keep going too?!?

But that's okay right? It's about loving her where she's at right? Well what if she's not anywhere!? This isn't a question anyone seems to be comfortable answering! What of the guys out there that notice their mistake, and begin to do as much as they can to better themselves, and make up to their wives for putting up with their bull crap. But wait! Assume their wives are normal and haven't been given a godly amount of grace! What then for the man whom desires to become better, and grow, and progress. What of the man whom desires that his bride be the woman to experience a proper man!?

No, I guess it doesn't matter. Because I can learn to be Christlike without a helpmeet right? I mean after all, God knew Adam could do it!

 

...Isn't that why he made him a helpmeet? Because he could learn to be totally selfless without one...

 

Why did I insist on being prideful and upset? Why did I make the conversation about what was going to happen!? Oh yeah, because it gets thrown in my face by a rightfully angry, and vindictive woman. But that's okay, a three month old child shouldn't have a problem facing such a challenge...

 

I'm not going to lie... I'm angry at myself. I'm heartbroken for her. And I'm frustrated with God... Now I'm at a loss for words... I want to hide my face, I want to ignore what happened tonight. I want to blame circumstances. I'm in tears of anger, and disgust, and I'm hating every second of it because I can't seem to tell if I'm crying for me, or if I'm crying for her. From what I can tell, It's both... Will God not slay my flesh overnight? Will her not kill my flesh and simply rebirth me? Or does he so desire that I should experience a slow tormenting death to myself? And how then should I handle this pain!?

 

All I wanted to do tonight was rest in God. I put some quiet worship music on, and just laid on my couch with every light in the house off, and asked God to cradle me. Then I find myself delivered into situations I just can't seem to win... Awesome... Thanks for the comfort God! It's good to know that I you want to comfort me more that your willing to give me something that would appear to break me so...

 

Enough of this... There's one place I should run to when these things happen, and so I'm going to go do that... Just thought the teachers would want to know where I'm at right now. My wife is out in the wilderness being treated like crap, blaming me for it, and I'm evidently not in the position to handle it as maturely as I'd hoped...

 

...by the way... I'm not to blame for her continued "crap" decisions. Why should I accept responsibility for her acting out this way!?

Edited October 17, 2012 by llama2112

[Charles from Cali]

Hey man..... I feel you... But you are all over the place... You need to get a day planner, and schedule times with God ( read, listen to YouTube sermons/teachings, pray, fellowship). And stick to the times.... If you don't, you are about to spiral out of control... You need to force yourself to focus on Christ so you can see who you are in HIM... Learn that HIS love for you is unconditional... Then, when you GET THAT....... You can stop spazzing regarding your wife.. Your wife needs your strength.. But your strength comes from God.... And if you reread your post... There isnt anything about faith, hope or love.... Just a bunch of, im not enough..... Your wife is going to do what she wants regardless if it makes sense to you.. She doesn't even know what she is doing BUT she's an adult .. Seriously.. Reread your post and realize how far off the mark you are to being like Christ.. Not for your wife or your marriage but for you.... Married or not... You need to work out your own souls salvation.. Don't worry about your wife seeing the change.., just be the change...

Edited October 17, 2012 by Charles from Cali