Rebuilding a Man of God

[Looney_Tunes]

You are thoroughly stuck in mother-son.

[passion4one]

Ok I am totally lost on your comment. What did I say i my post that makes you say "You are thoroughly stuck in mother-son."

[Looney_Tunes]

it seems like I am in trouble if I am not . . .

 

I feel condemned for not being able to do all that is expected of me on que.

 

I guess I am tireing of trying to keep everything on a happy note all the time.

 

I felt like her actions is what caused the issues she was having but it is my fault

 

I guess I have been asking myself if it would be easier on her without me,

 

All of those statements scream mother-son. Think about it for a minute - you have been in the ministry long enough to have the information you need - and tell me why I said that. It's OK if you don't get it, but I'd like you to make an attempt and then we'll help you with whatever you don't understand. It will not help you if we simply give you the answer. You need to put forth some effort to internalize the information, and then you will be able to change your behavior.

[passion4one]

We watched the video on mother son last night but still not totally understanding. Some of it is slowly sinking in that I wasn't willing to meet her needs but I still really don't feel that is mother son related totally. Is this part of the being?

[Looney_Tunes]

Most men don't feel like mother-son is a big issue for them. Trust me, it is THE big issue.

 

You're gonna have to go on the theory that if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. If it talks like mother-son and acts like mother-son, it's mother-son. Just trust us. We've seen it countless times.

 

When it comes to this issue, the being happens when you no longer feel as if you are "in trouble" for not meeting her needs, but your only emotion is sorrow that you hurt her. It's when the only response you have to that sorrow is making darn sure you never do it again, rather than allowing it to push you to a place of shame. And the way you get there is to control your feelings, suck it up, and meet her needs with a smile on your face. The being will eventually replace the doing as long as you are consistent with the doing.

[passion4one]

I keep hearing the same thing over and over but I still dont seem to make progress.  Our relationship still seems to be on the same roller coaster that it had been on the last 17 years.  Yes things have gotten better but there are still weeks like this one that nothing has gone right.  Part of it is being tired from not sleeping well and the long hrs this week.  But I don't really even feel wanted this week so maybe i am that bad?  I get worn down with trying to do all the doing things right and being doesnt seem to be anywhere in sight.  It seems harder here during the week with all of them around, all the time becomes family time and not time to be on here.  I did get thru a lot of cd's when i was alone but have not done more with spending time with the children.  But that is not a good excuse for what I should be doing either.

[Looney_Tunes]

I see a couple of issues in your post. First, it appears that you are simply white knuckling through this - relying on your own strength instead of tapping into the power Christ gives you. It does not have to be this hard, but it will continue to be unless you learn how to use what you already have through Christ.

 

Secondly, it seems as if you are just kind of riding the wave of whatever is going on at the time. You end up in the ditch and have no idea how you got there. You need to learn how to do a little forensic investigation here and figure out how you ended up where you did. This is an exercise that I have been recommending a lot lately - it actually is something that Steve advises on the Wednesday calls, but it's so good that I stole it and have been spreading it around.

 

I want you to think of a specific incident with your wife that did not go well. Grab a pen and paper, and at the top of the paper, write down what was happening at the beginning, ie Wife and I were discussing ___. At the bottom of the paper, write how it ended up, ie. She started crying or I blew up and left the room or She threw the coffee pot at me - whatever.

 

Now, in as much detail as you can remember, write down what happened between point A and point B. Right now you are just writing the facts, as if you are a news reporter watching the scene - whatever both of you did or said.

 

This is the part that will take a little work . . . go back through your chain of events and try to remember how you were feeling at each point. When did you start to feel uncomfortable? When did the fear kick in? Did you get angry? Were you feeling shame or disappointment or sadness? Again, be as detailed as possible.

 

Here's the thing - emotions cause actions, and actions create emotions. Once you start identifying what you were feeling, you will see a connection between what you felt and what you did. You will see how what you did contributed to what you felt next, and so on. Then you will be able to start seeing places where you could have broken that negative chain and done something that would have turned it in a positive direction.

 

Everyone has emotions, even you. You can't deny that they exist and you can't ignore them because you don't understand them. Otherwise it's kind of like driving a car, but not realizing that the gas pedal is what makes the car accelerate. You are going faster and faster, and you don't want to, but you can't stop it because you don't understand why the car is doing what it's doing. Your feelings are driving your behavior, and you need to understand them and get them under control.

[1love]

This thought just came to me. Some people pay good money to go on roller coaster rides. I've never been very fond of them, but have been on them. I know that you like them. You enjoy the highs and lows of those rides. So what is the big deal? Why don't we do this roller coaster ride together? It doesn't have to be a struggle.

[passion4one]

I simply do not remember things let alone details.  Just this past week at work even my boss said something about me working on a problem worked with a new guy to fix it. I know the date because of a saving a file on our equipment server but it too a couple discussions before I could ever even vaguely remember doing it, still dont remember what I did.  But I seldom remember our conversations I wish I did but I am not a detail person.  I only identify the big picture of a conversation, boil it down to 3-4 words in my mind. 

[Looney_Tunes]

OK, now that you have identified a problem, what can you do about it? 

 

This is part of the work required to change. I am not a detail person either. I tend to see the big picture as well, so I understand where you're coming from. However, working in an ICU requires details, so I learned how to pay attention to them, decide which ones were important, and filter out the rest. It's a skill, just like your job.

 

If you truly want to restore your marriage, you don't get to say Oh well, I that's just the way I am. You have to put in some concentrated effort to act differently. And then your wife, who loves you and wants you to succeed, sees that effort and supports you. She understands that there is a learning curve and she doesn't expect perfection. She gives you grace when you mess up because you are putting forth the effort. 

 

If, despite good effort, you still find yourself struggling to concentrate and remember, you might consider the possibility that you have ADD. If that is the case, it is possible that you may be helped with medication. If you find yourself resisting this idea, I would ask you again how important restoring your marriage is to you. Are you willing to be divorced rather than go to a doctor, get evaluated, and possibly take a pill every morning? IF you have ADD and IF a doctor feels that medication would be appropriate, it might give you the focus to be able to do this. It's not a magic pill - you would still have to put forth a lot of effort - but it might make it easier. 

 

It really does boil down to how important your marriage is to you and how much effort you are willing to put forth. You're the only one who can make that decision, but you also have to realize that your wife is not going to put up with a half- ed effort forever. 

[passion4one]

I thought that I had posted this last Friday but guess i didn't.   After leaving work I went back to the house, had been there a few days alone, did the dishes, and decided to make the bed which I guess is a "doing thing" it started out for a bad evening and a long drive home.  After the call that I told here how making the bed upset me because I didn't follow all of the exact ways she folds everything.  It finally dawned on my 3/4's of the way home that I was really suffering withdrawal symptoms from the adrenalin of work that keeps me going all day.  I really didn't like that revelation but the more I though about it the more I saw it was true.  After getting off work there was nothing to think about for the next day, home things do not provide the adrenalin that work does???       So have not really thought a whole lot more about it.  I did read some articles on workaholics and passive aggressive but still lost in what I really need to do to break some of this.  I will work overtime to finish a breakdown or problem that has to be fixed but also I need to work some overtime for financial reasons with a single income family.  So trying to find a balance seems impossible.  I am told the overtime is not the problem but that i come home exhausted and spent.  I spend time with them most evenings but that doesn't leave me time to work on the projects that I need to get done.  I love to cook out but I spent 2 evenings cooking out and then when I said something about it I was reminded that I wouldn't have to cook out if we had a stove.  I still need to work on some of it before installing but I am doing other things or wore out and crashing.  I know these are all excuses of no value...........

[Looney_Tunes]

Yes, they are excuses. But here's the thing . . . no one expects you to be superman (believe it or not!). Your wife understands that there are limits to your time and energy. I know you are looking at this like a never ending list of things you have to get done, and that's the problem. You are making your wife feel as if she is nothing more than something to check off on the list, and she is at the bottom. 

 

This whole situation can be fixed fairly easily, but you are not putting any effort into doing so. You refuse to get on calls . ..  and the fact that you feel like the moderators are "beating you up," rather than teaching you, says a lot about where your heart is. When you post, you give us a list of why you haven't done what you need to do to make your wife feel loved, but you don't really ask for help, and you don't respond to what is posted to you. You simply continue to allow all of this to happen. 

 

And now you want to spend a week at the other house without your wife. So when things aren't going well, your solution is to run away. 

 

We know how to break the workaholic, passive aggressive stuff. We can tell you exactly what you need to do, but you have to engage in a dialogue with us - not just post a list of what you're doing wrong every few days. You have to get on calls and talk with the people who have broken it and allow them to teach you. And then you have to actually DO what you are being told to do.

 

So the bottom line is - are you willing to do this? Do you love your wife more than you love yourself? Are you willing to make yourself uncomfortable in order to grow into the man God wants you to be? Do you want a deep relationship with God and an OHM badly enough to fight the fear . . . because that's really what all of this is. 

 

Please don't say yes because you know that it's what your wife and we want to hear. Your wife deserves better than that, and frankly, we would rather spend our time helping the people who are actually going to do this. It's OK to say no. You are allowed to make that choice. It will hurt God, your wife, and your kids, but stringing everyone along hurts more in the long run. That's what you've been doing for as long as you've been in the ministry, and it has to stop. Make a decision. Fish, or cut bait. 

 

If your answer is yes, don't tell us. Show us. If you really want to do this, you will respond to this post and ask questions, and then when someone replies you will respond and ask more questions. You will talk on at least 2 calls per week. You will actively make decisions about what your priorities are and learn to manage your time so that they get the attention you say they deserve. 

 

If your answer is no, be honest and let your wife go. She doesn't deserve what you're doing to her. 

 

All of the men who have successfully walked through this process have said that there came a moment when they were tired of being who they were. They were sick of hurting everyone around them, and they decided that, come hell or high water, they were not going to be that person anymore. That's what it takes to do this. Are you there yet?

[TimothyPaul]

48 hours since LT's post and nothing.....

[passion4one]

i am here still tying to figure out what to post.  I know that the instructions were to hold me accountable to do the things on here that I am suppose to do.  That didn't go too well this morning when I was told the consequences because that immediately sends me reacting in the wrong direction.  I don't want to be forced to do anything.  That is my reaction and I don't even know why other that what I have been told.  I came home tonight about an hr later with working over some to make up for not being early today.  They were already eating so I ate then went to the garage to work on my project to get a stove fixed up to install.  ( the rest of what I had wrote I deleted because it would be considered excuses not reasons)  I react in so many things that I do and don't even know that I am doing it.  I really don't know how to change me to make me pay attention and remember what I have done or read.  I know I have a lot of changing to do but reading and doing are not happening. I have read a lot on mother son, workaholic, passive aggressive  when I am reading it makes sense to me and then the next day I have no clue.

[Looney_Tunes]

That didn't go too well this morning when I was told the consequences because that immediately sends me reacting in the wrong direction.

 

 

No, you choose to go racing in the wrong direction. The consequences just give you your list of options. 

 

I really don't know how to change me to make me pay attention and remember what I have done or read. 

 

 

Have you been evaluated for ADD yet?

 

Having said that, your key to changing is simply to put your wife first. You are still unbelievably self focused. Everything is about you - what someone said to you, what someone did to you, how you feel after you hurt your wife, and how you don't like being told to do something. I see nothing about your wife in your posts. 

 

How about rewriting the above post from your wife's perspective. How did she feel about the evening?

[passion4one]

No I have not been evaluated I doubt that I do that because we are still working to get my body straightened out from all the drugs I have been on in the past the dr's prescribed in the past with so many side effect.

 

He texted me to let me know when he would be home and I was surprised when he showed up earlier than I had expected.  We had already started eating and he seemed a little put out that we had already started eating. He gave me a meager kiss compared to earlier in the week.  It was quiet at the dinner table not much was said and he got up and went to the garage after eating.  When he finished for the night he found me in our room not on the call but talking to our son for hrs.  

We really had talked very little until she was off of the phone call after 10pm.  She was frustrated from how I reacted but said she I was acting in a classic way for any of the 3 passive aggressive, arrested development, and workaholic.  I told here that when she said to post or there would be nothing to night that  I was fine with that because with here putting it that way, I didn't want anything.  I couldn't sleep so we kept talking till late and I dont really know what all we talked about.  I think I might have apologized but I really don't now for sure.

[Looney_Tunes]

That post is still all about you.

 

I told here that when she said to post or there would be nothing to night that  I was fine with that because with here putting it that way, I didn't want anything.

 

 

 

In other words, You are expecting me to keep my word and I don't like it, so I am going to take my toys and go home. Which part of that is mature and Christlike?

 

Why did you refuse to get on the call tonight?

[passion4one]

It wasn't about keeping my word I don't think I had promised to post that night. Not that that really matters.  Is she wants to put conditions on things that is fine she can do that but I very seldom respond to ultimatums.  None of it was a mature response I can see that but that is where I am but I guess I dont like it enough to change yet.

 

I was doing the posting that evening before installing the stove which I had texted her earlier in the day telling her my intentions.  But at the time she called and expected me to jump in, I dont work that way I have enough experience to not start talking before I think about what I want to say.  Better to keep quiet than open my mouth and prove myself to be a fool.........

[passion4one]

 None of it was a mature response I can see that but that is where I am but I guess I dont like it enough to change yet.

 

 This didnt read right "i don't dislike it enough to change yet. 

[4evrHZdtr3]

The whole point here is that it is not to be about what you like or don't like. With your attitude and behaviors you are hurting your wife. People who really love others don't continue to hurt them. And as far as attaching conditions? Well, God does that all the time. Read all the "IF you will's" in the Bible.

 

Ultimatums? Time cards are ultimatums. Every part of our laws are ultimatums. Natural consequences are ultimatums.

And the saddest thing of all? There would be no ultimatums if you- and all of us- did what was right because it is right.

 

To the degree that you operate only by your feelings, that is the degree of failure that you will walk in.

 

And not opening your mouth so as not to prove yourself a fool? When God is allowed to convict, forgive and clean up our foolish thoughts, emotions and judgments, then when  we open our mouths, good things come out. If you are afraid to speak because you might show yourself a fool, then perhaps you have not allowed the Light of Truth to shine on your inward parts.

[Looney_Tunes]

Better to keep quiet than open my mouth and prove myself to be a fool.........

 

 

Too late. Your actions have already proven it.

 

The way of a fool seems right to him, but a wise man listens to advice. Proverbs 12:15

 

What are you so afraid of, J?

[passion4one]

Well tonight after a long day at my mother-laws birthday party and wanting to be home hrs ago.  Mostly tonight i am afraid of me.  Not understanding what I am really.  But my project for the next few days is to study a book by Paul Hegstrom and see what I can learn about what I am.  I know my thoughts and feelings are not where they need to be and I struggle with all the corrections and advice I am given.  I don't understand why I do the things that I do and why I can not see a lot of what I do until much later.   Maybe I am afraid that all you have said about me is true......  I am starting to believe that.  All I want to do is run away and be alone for a while to sort things out and decide how to implement all of the advice to fix me.  Very interesting verse in that is part of what I read this morning. I know it is not the same but thinking about the struggle that Paul went through wondering why he did the very things that he did not want to do.  Right now I really do not like anything about me.

[Looney_Tunes]

Right now I really do not like anything about me.

 

 

Well, depending how you mean that, it could be a really good thing or a really bad thing.

 

If you are saying that from a shame based, there's nothing good about me place where you're not accepting what God says about you, it's a bad thing. Read this thread. Print out the list of scriptures and download the MP3. Read and/or listen at least twice a day. Understanding and believing - really believing - in who you are in Christ is the foundation on which you build a successful life and marriage. If you don't have that, nothing else is going to work.

 

If you don't like anything about your character or your behavior, that's good. That can be changed. You have to take a good, hard look at yourself and you have to be willing to push through your fears in order to do it, but it CAN be changed. If you decide to do that, you could have such an amazing life, but it won't just happen. You will have to do all of the things I said in my earlier post, and you will have to swallow your stubborn pride and be teachable. You don't get to say That's just how I am. You have to change who you are into someone who doesn't abuse his wife.

 

You are the only person stopping you.

[Looney_Tunes]

I went to church with Steve and Melissa today, and the pastor's message was about rest. During the service, God told me to post this to you, so I hope you'll take it to heart.

 

God's rest is not about lack of activity. It's not about entertainment. It's about wholeness, healing, and restoration - a spiritual kind of rest that you can only get from God.

 

God, the Master, The Holy of Israel, has this solemn counsel: "Your salvation requires you to turn back to me and stop your silly efforts to save yourselves. Your strength will come from settling down in complete dependence on me - The very thing you've been unwilling to do. Isaiah 30:15, MSG

 

Even though they watched me at work for forty years, your ancestors refused to let me do it my way; over and over they tried my patience.  And I was provoked, oh, so provoked! I said, "They'll never keep their minds on God; they refuse to walk down my road."  Exasperated, I vowed, "They'll never get where they're going, never be able to sit down and rest."  So watch your step, friends. Make sure there's no evil unbelief lying around that will trip you up and throw you off course, diverting you from the living God. Hebrews 3:9-12 MSG

 

Why didn't the Israelites ever find that rest? Because Moses was up on a mountain a few days longer than they thought he should be. They freaked out, didn't trust God despite that whole miraculous escape from Egypt thing, and took matters into their own hands. 

 

You lose God's rest when you think your life depends on your efforts. You refuse to trust God and instead feel like you have to control your entire world. You are frantic and anxious and feel like you will never be good enough . . . because, as ruler of your little universe, you won't be. You stink at being God.

 

The pastor used the illustration of tangled fishing lines. If you're fishing with your friend and your lines get tangled, the worst thing you can do is start pulling. That will just make the knots tighter. Of course you could just cut the whole mess off and start over, but then you lose hooks, line, and sinkers. Unfortunately that's what a lot of people do when life gets tangled up - they either pull tighter, or they cut and run. The only way to untangle the fishing lines is to calm down and start working at the knots one by one.

 

Up till now, you have been pulling the lines of your life tighter and tighter. When that doesn't work, you threaten to cut and run. The only way to untangle your life is to calm down, trust God to handle it, and start working on the knots. When you finally do that, you will have rest . . . and strength, and peace, and the ability to be a great husband.

[passion4one]

.  Right now I really do not like anything about me.

I did not like any of my behavior from last weekend.  I didn't understand why I was reacting the way I did.  But if I am understanding what I am reading correctly that is how our brain works at times just based on reactions to similar things in the past. I didn't realize that is what occurs but i can also see how hard it is to defeat this and choose to do the right reactions.

 

I liked the message you shared.  It is hard for us to understand the God we serve in all that He wants to do for us and help us if we will just let him and not try to do it ourselves.

 

The tangled fishing line is one I can relate to, when things go wrong or break down multiple times or at the worst times for it to happen.  It is easy for me to get upset and want to throw it all away or say I can't do that.  After I have had my tantrum and realize that i can't throw it away and replace it, I sit back down and slowly meticulously work through with great patience most times.  Guess I will have to stop here I am too tired to think after a long day.   

Edited October 16, 2013 by passion4one