Rebuilding a Man of God

passion4one · October 24, 2013

I finally succeeded in downloading the mp3 file to my computer..........It has been a good week but way too busy around here. Have not done the work that I need to have done this week due to long hrs today. Hope to get on the call here in a bit and will call it a night.

passion4one · October 29, 2013

I think things were going pretty well this weekend but Sunday morning we had a talk and I felt like I was getting unloaded on all at once. As I was listening I recognized that my first thoughts were not things that I wanted to say. I had been there before and knew that was the wrong response and I stopped myself. Later I shared this with her that I had caught myself before I had said my normal response. I thought I was showing her that I had made some progress but her response was that it was the same as saying it..............Was I wrong in telling her? I know I still have a lot of habits to develop in my life but I am still finding Paul's book interesting which doesnt happen easily.

4evrHZdtr3 · October 30, 2013

No, I don't think you should have said anything to her. She will know when you are making progress.

Technically, it's not the same.. but for women it is. What we women want is for you to not even think or feel the ways that are negative or unloving because that makes us feel crushed, rejected etc...

As you are growing, stopping yourself from saying/doing the wrong things is an important first step. God wants all of you.. your heart, your thoughts, your emotions, etc... remember "Guard your heart diligently.." and "Ye whitewashed sepulchers..." God wants us to be consistent and unified.. the same on the inside as we are on the outside... but for men especially, it takes doing it on the outside repeatedly to get it on the inside. Women tend to get it on the inside first... and then their behavior follows. So to a woman, when you say; "Look,I stopped myself" you really blew it... because to her, if it isn't there on the inside, it doesn't matter what you did or didn't do. It wasn't there (to her) hence it's the same thing...

Does that make sense?

passion4one · October 31, 2013

No but it is about what she had said to me so it must be right. It is a big step for me to actually catch myself thinking about saying something I know better than to say. I guess I need to have silent victories.

MaryJane · October 31, 2013

4evrHZdtr3 · November 2, 2013

Let's re-frame this a bit.

If you went to another country where they speak another language to do a very important business deal you would learn to speak the language- at least enough to communicate. You would take the time to learn the culture and the proper social behaviors.

Likewise, if you want to speak to a two year old, you don't give him/her a lengthy academic explanation about how or when to get dressed or obey. You meet them at their eye level, play their games and make the choices clear so that they can understand from their reference point.

As the "head" (source of life) to your wife, you are charged with bringing the love of Christ into her life. You do it by learning to speak her language and sometimes that means being silent because the words you speak would hurt her, not love her. She is a different citizen- with a different build, a different way of seeing life. Your call is to live with her "in understanding" - find out how she thinks, what she can hear, what types of expressions convey love and which don't..

The mark of immaturity is when a person compares another person's way of thinking and doing and rejects it because it's not like he would do it. The mark of maturity is when another person lays down their way of doing things and seeks to meet the other person where they are at.

Looney_Tunes · November 2, 2013

I like 4evr's explanation.

I think things were going pretty well this weekend but Sunday morning we had a talk and I felt like I was getting unloaded on all at once.

I have noticed something in your posts. It's something that we see a lot around here, unfortunately. Your posts reflect very little understanding of what is actually going on in your marriage. If I didn't know that you are married to 1love, I would never guess it. The two of you are living in very different worlds.

That's a problem.

You have been around long enough to understand what we teach here. I would expect - and your wife has the right to expect - that by now, you would not be quite so clueless. Maybe you wouldn't know exactly what was wrong, but I would think that you would have seen that something was bothering her. "Getting unloaded on" should not have been a surprise, and it happened "all at once" because you did not pick up on or listen to her cues that something was off.

My purpose in saying this is not to beat up on you or send you into a pity party. It's to get you to take a good look at yourself. You are kind of like a dry drunk - you know, the guy that gave up the alcohol but otherwise behaves exactly as he did when he was drinking. You have given up the affairs, but your heart attitude . . . the part of you that got you into the affairs in the first place . . . hasn't changed much. You are still treating your wife as an afterthought.

I know you don't like being corrected. Well, I'm sorry, but I will not tell you what you want to hear. If I did that, I might as well quit doing this, because that doesn't help anyone. I can only help you by telling you the truth. Immature people take constructive criticism as an attack, and either strike back or withdraw. Mature people look at what is said, find the truth within it, and then apply it.

Your wife still wants this marriage, but I don't know how much longer she's gonna hold out. The most frustrating thing is that you are more than able to do this, if you'd just tap into the power Christ gave you and stop trying to run everything yourself. And not doing it when you are perfectly capable of it is just sad.

passion4one · November 6, 2013

Well tonight has certainly not been the best evening ever, I don't even know where to start, I was reading her post on the computer as i was last night but she is upset about my computer time. Just dont know where any of this is going.

4evrHZdtr3 · November 6, 2013

How can you even say you don't know where any of this is going?

She's NOT upset about your computer time... try reading your wife's post again.. and this time ask God to open your eyes so that you can see what she is saying.

Looney_Tunes · November 6, 2013

this time ask God to open your eyes so that you can see what she is saying.

Amen! This is what I was referring to above . . . you read 1love's words, but you have absolutely no idea what she is really saying. You run it through the filter of your mind and come out with something completely different.

What I would like to see you do . . . although I'm gonna be honest - based on your history so far, I doubt that you will actually do it . . . is to read through 1love's post again and then write a summary of each paragraph over here. The only way to make sure you understand what your wife is saying is to repeat it back so that she can confirm or not, and that is something you don't do. You take what you think she means, and you run with it. And because you are firmly stuck in a shame-based mindset, it's generally some variation of I'm a crappy husband.

This doesn't have to be so hard, J. You don't have to go it alone. We want to help you, but you won't let us. You interpret teaching as criticism, and you won't do the things you need to do in order to learn. You are the only person who can change that.

passion4one · November 9, 2013

I will have to see if I take that challenge maybe that will be tomorrows evenings project. But yes I feel like a crappy husband a lot because of the stupid things that i still do. Too much of the time I do not catch myself before I do something and then when I see her response I know, " I am a stupid jerk husband stuck int mother son/ passive aggressive " I know that I have to work but I can not seem to get work out of the center of my mind to concentrate on the things in our relationship. I could write a book on the things that I know that I should be doing but have not been able to start doing all the things that I know that would make be a better person physically, mentally and socially. I want to be that great husband but get so frustrated in my failures...... guess I should believe more in my own saying to others "Never give up you can do it"

4evrHZdtr3 · November 9, 2013

If what you just posted is true- and I am assuming it is- that you do feel crappy and want to do better, then quit:

1. Calling yourself names because its a waste of mental and emotional energy that focuses only on you. And it's very repulsive to wives to have to listen to.

2. Thinking, thinking thinking about all the things you have done wrong... or all the things you know you have to change... because all that thinking is isolated and self-focused. You are in Your head instead of turning outward to LISTEN to your wife.

Ask your wife this question: "If I screw up thirty times a day, but each time that I do I really stop and listen to you, genuinely apologize for hurting you and seek to substitute a better action or response immediately, would you be willing to work with that?

My guess is that she would be only too happy to work with that. You have a God ordained, loving personal and patient tutor to help you through this- your wife! You are not alone...

passion4one · November 13, 2013

This part of my attempt to rewrite what she was talking about.

She is not wanting to give up responibility totally but she cant give up caring about her own stuff and expecting the kids to take care of stuff responsibly. They treat her stuff like junk and dont take proper care or concern for it. Their lack of responsibity leaves her hurt because of the lost plants that had very sentimental meaning to her.

I do not know what thoughts from the past she was thinking about. I didn't think to ask about the dentist apointments. When I got in the car it never crossed my mind until I realized she was not starting to leave so it took me a bit but I caught on that she wanted the kiss. And yes like to kiss her and hold her when we get home.

I tried to get the kids to fix supper while we spent some time together I am pretty sure that the kids knew they were the someone that I was talking to. I know she needed a break so I do not understand her pulling away to fix supper that was not at all what my intentions were and I believe

I tried to stop her but I gave up knowing her determination.

She was expecting me to come into the kitchen and help, I was irritated that she would not let the kids fix the supper as I had ask. I am pretty sure I was not in the kitchen but I did hear the conversation from the livingroom where I was on the computer trying to read on the forum.

I didn't g this posted last night so I did fix some mistakes and will post this much and see if this is even close to what you wanted.

Looney_Tunes · November 13, 2013

You did it! I'm impressed.

Now I'd like you to reread what you've written. There is one problem that's glaringly obvious . . . can you see it? . I am more than willing to help you, but you need to make an attempt to find it yourself first.

Take your time. I'll wait

.

Figure it out yet?

Your first paragraph was great. You nailed it. That's exactly what 1love was communicating in her post. I was absolutely certain that you could understand what she says if you just take a minute and think about it.

Then you flipped over to talking about yourself again. The rest of the post is all about you . . . what you thought and did. There is nothing about your wife other than the first paragraph.

That's where your issue is. You're a great husband when you are actually thinking about your wife. Trouble is, you don't think about her nearly as much as you think about yourself, and that's what needs to change.

So try it again with the rest of her post. Tell us what she is feeling, not what you are thinking and doing.

Forrest Gump · November 13, 2013

Hey guys. Not hijacking a thread. Just dropping in my two cents worth.

You guys working through all this, trying to become the man your wife needs, trying to fix your life....

Pay close attention to what these guys are telling you. Looney here was a key player in getting me back on track. Joel and Kathy are the real deal. Don't get distracted. Don't give up. Don't add your opinions to their advice. Just do it.

Let Looney and the crew here beat the sense into you if that's what it takes. They saved my family. This is the real marriage counseling. Don't quit.

Thanks Looney. I am eternally grateful for your help.

1love · November 13, 2013

I guess I will post this here. I thought about putting it in my thread, but it fits so well with what Forrest Gump just posted.

Last night I had a very ugly exchange with our daughter over math. I'm sure J remembers it all too well. I'm very surprised that he didn't intervene. In times past that intervention would have been to put me down. I am reminded of the dvd where Joel is telling about Kathy and Jennifer getting into it and Jennifer coming out on top. Joel finally saw that he had to intervene and just tell Kathy that he would handle it, but he didn't put her down in the process.

So here is what happened: daughter came with a math problem that she was not getting. I tried to help. I know she knows the process but was not applying that knowledge to this problem. I changed the format that it was written in so that it looked like ones that she has done before. She was able to do the problem then. Next problem.....same thing. This one was a little more complicated, but I knew she could do it. It just took a little more thought, and I was trying to help her think through the process. It required two steps. She is to find the value of "x" as a denominator.

When they have problems they can't figure out, I will give them something simple: 10/x = 5. Easy. Then I try to get them to apply the same process to the problematic problem. She was stuck in the idea of having to have the answer for step 2 without doing step 1. She wouldn't even start on step 1. She kept trying to do her own thing which was not working. She kept trying to add her opinion to the process. I kept telling her to just do what I was telling her to do.

I really wanted J to intervene here. I should have said so but didn't. He was watching the whole process, and I pretty much know that his approval of me was not very high. He did nothing to help. But that isn't the point I am trying to make.

I finally sent her to her room because she wasn't cooperating in the process. She wanted the help on her terms. She wanted me to just do the problem for her rather than helping her work through it. She wanted to do it her way, but that wasn't getting it done. She wouldn't listen to instruction and JUST DO WHAT SHE WAS TOLD.

After awhile, she came back. She did step 1. Then I pointed out that now the problem looks like many of the problems that she has worked out. She was then easily able to do the problem and get the correct answer.

Teaching point: if she would "just do it" without "adding her own opinions" it would go much easier on everyone.....including herself.

Her fighting the process and the help that was being offered caused a lot of unnecessary turmoil. We could get nowhere until she decided to listen and "just do it."

Looney_Tunes · November 13, 2013

Thanks Looney. I am eternally grateful for your help.

You're welcome, Erik. I'm beginning to understand what Joel is talking about . . . seeing guys heal their marriages and having a teeny little part in that is kinda like watching your kid get his PhD lol. I'm very proud of you, not only for healing your own marriage but for showing other guys that they can do it too.

J., Erik struggled with most of the same stuff you do. You might find it encouraging to read his thread. It's actually pretty short, because he worked more with the calls, but I think you'll get a lot out of it. Read it here.

passion4one · November 16, 2013

It has been a crazy week and not looking to get better until Sunday I knew when I was writing it I had gotten off track so I will get there to redo it but we are going to be traveling had hoped to meet some people in Chicago this weekend but that doesnt seem to be working out for this trip up there. She is opening up more to let me know when I am screwing up so that I can fix the things that I am doing wrong... :blush: But then occasionally I get to hear what I did right..... ;-)

I enjoy ready the forrest grump post....

passion4one · November 27, 2013

I think we live a crazy life it seems a long time since I have had time to post we had a great weekend ever so crazy time wise which seems to be our way. I haven't forgotten what I need to do on my assignment just haven't gotten there. Last week was a busy week and I guess the change in me that I see is that I was suppose to go pick up my wife Tuesday but worked late to have a project ready for start up on Wednesday. I was mostly ready when they got there but then they had not studied what they were suppose to be starting up so I was explaining to them how there system worked having to convince them that I had installed it the way it was suppose to be. That was for starters but the point I was trying to get to was the 2nd half of the start-up wasn't right so by 5:30pm I was really starting to get aggravated with these guys because I had said I would pick her up that night no matter what. Normally I would just accept it as part of a start up things don't always go as planned. By the time they left I was in no shape to drive that far. But Thursday I got the idea to take her out since I wouldn't really get to on her birthday. I had anticipation on the drive to pick her up I guess as a guy I was driving on a mission to get to her as quickly as I could make the trip. I really felt bad that she felt so back with the flue bug but we still enjoyed the evening and I thought more about her than me. Although I did mention how hard the drive was the next morning getting to work, 75 miles vs 8 miles. The rest of the details are in 1loves post.

passion4one · January 4, 2014

I know this is not the final version of this apology letter but this is what I have put together I am sure other things will come up to add. I want to apologize to onelove for failing her and myself to but the man of God that I should be.

Not being the spiritual leader in our home caused you to feel like you had to be the wife and spiritual leader in our marriage. I left you to raise our children, I was gone so much that I could not and would not discipline the children other than on rare occasions in an angry attitude of resentment. As children came along it made you feel like you had to be the father and disciplinarian for our children.

Being a workaholic from the start of our marriage only to get worse as our relationship was not growing as it should have been I made you feel like work was more important than our relationship and spending quality time with you.

Letting us get involved in premarital sex and pushing my way for more. I made you feel like you had to give in to me to keep me cheating you out of the joy of getting to wait until our wedding day.

Causing you to start lying to your parents about where we were going or what we were doing. I caused you to compromise your integrity of you were.

Before we had children I would bring porn movies home to watch. Not knowing that we were opening our marriage up to all kinds of problems and finally decided this was not a good thing for us to do. I made you feel like you were not enough to keep me excited.

Early in our marriage I built the shelves just for you because you had mentioned them to me. The waterbed drawers was for both of us. The cradle was a project of love for you. But as time went on my passiveness increased to the point I would start lots of projects but seldom take them to completion. Many times I would ignore her request to do something or come up with a hundred reasons why it would not work or that I could not do that. This made you feel like I did not care about you, love you, and that you were not important enough to do the things you wanted.

My arrested development caused me to work long hours to try to validate that I was someone. It has made you feel like work is more important to me than you are that our relationship and spending time with you is not something that I want to work on.

We never took family vacations because I was too busy working and too important to be away. I hurt you and made you feel like I did not want to spend time with you or our family. It made you feel like you were just the house keeper and nanny for the kids.

Coming back from Jen’s wedding I wanted us to stop and get a hotel room and send the other car home with the kids. It was all about what I

wanted. I wanted you then and there since I didn’t get my way I acted like a pouty kid. I made you feel like all I wanted was sex and the kids and their safety was not important.

In our marriage I was not meeting your needs emotionally so you did not feel like meeting my needs which made you feel like a sex object when I was pushing for love making.

I resented all of your corrections over the years, I was too selfish wanting my own way to want to listen to the things that I did that you did not like I was too good to be corrected by you. I made you feel like we had no emotional relationship other than providing for my wants in bed.

My arrested development has caused me to start so many projects and never finish them. This has caused you to not care about how the house looks if it doesn’t matter to me.

I broke my promise to you to be faithful to the wedding vows, this made you feel like it was all a lie that it never really meant anything to me.

In my passive behavior I have agreed to go along with everything that you wanted to do to help us get along and in doing so I built up resentments because I would not speak what my real feelings were. This took me down the path to online conversations with other women, meeting other women and having affairs with multiple women. This caused you to feel very hurt and dumped on after finding out and even before then it caused you to feel a wall dividing us.

passion4one · January 7, 2014