Marriage In distress

[Guest John Broken]

Hello,

 

 

 

 

New here, thanks for the ministry! At this time I do not know where my marriage of 20 yrs stands. Me and my wife are both Christians who love the Lord and who have struggled in our walk with the Lord from time to time. I've been the faulty party in our marriage.

 

My wife is a beautiful God fearing woman who trusted the Lord to save our marriage for the entire time. We had a great relationship, we loved very strong but I was the immature one taking her love for granted and got deceived, didn't cherish her, love and make her feel special I know it. In our younger years I went through a child phase and ran and played around with my friends and woman (before we got married) but we always stayed together back and forth. She is my first and only love. She kept trusting the Lord through all these years to save our relationship and even our marriage when we got married.

 

We both rededicated our lives before we got married. We stopped having sex for 6 months because we wanted to honor God, we wasn't married yet. Then we got married and I gradually fell back into temptation a few years into our marriage and ended up committing adultery. She forgave me and we stayed together, its been about 20 years ago. Through the years it has haunted her. I was not the most affectionate person, and have been very selfish and neglecting her over the years and our love seemed to grow cold. She kept trying to get close to me, but I wouldn't be as much with her. Shes done nothing wrong but try to love me and get close to me. (I dont want to offer and excuse but I have a problem of pushing people away. I was raised in almost 20 foster homes. After reflecting I know I developed a way of keeping people out going from home to home, getting close to a new family and people I loved only to be ripped away from them time and time again.) I know my loving wife has paid the price for my self-preserving ways. Coupled with that and the adultery she has been very insecure.

 

The last two years we have had struggles, very bad ones, financial, work, children etc. I became very stressed, frustrated and angry, hateful and very hard to the ones I love. Never physical, but just verbally hateful and angry lashing out at her pushing her away. She finally told God shes done, for 20 years she kept praying to save our marriage. She ended up letting someone in, and developed feelings for another man, a non-Christian man. We are still together, they do not speak now because he wanted her to separate from me. She wont do that, so they kinda said lets just be friends. And thats where its at. They haven't spoke in a a few months.

 

Its very strange because me and my wife talk about it. She still has strong feelings for him and says shes going through a hard time and cant help it. She trying to let it die. Shes trying to stay together with me, but is dead inside towards me. She cries about it. She knows Gods will is to save our marriage and restore us, but she is to the point she is not listening to Gods word, and says she believes the adultery 20 years ago gives her grounds to leave now if she wants.

 

For now we are living together in a standstill, its so weird. She doesn't know what to do. Afraid to go back into our relationships with its fears, afraid to actually leave me because she says she doesn't know if she could live without me, afraid to close the door with the "other person" (sees it as her last shot at a dream relatiohship etc). Shes only known the person for a few months, so they where at the height of strong new fresh feelings and has no closure with it. He said lets just be friends. He wanted to force her to make me leave, but she wont do that, says this has been my home for 25 yrs and have no way to leave right now.

 

Is there any hope? How can we live like this? She says shes numb to me right now, says maybe in time it can change. Says shes struggling with the new found feelings for the other person. I have repented, acknowledged my sins, and take full responsibility. I know this woman would never gave eyes to another man had I not driven her beautiful heart away! I've begun to make the changes, I know it was all me. She says only God can give me a second chance. But she is not really as open to Gods will right now, she is very hardened and understandably so.

 

 

Please advise! God bless

[Looney_Tunes]

Hi John! Welcome to the ministry!

 

One quick administrative thing . . . when you post as a guest, no one can see your post! If you have already registered, please make sure you're logged in before you post. If you haven't yet registered, please go to the top right corner and hit "create account." That way everyone will be able to see your posts and you will be able to get help.

 

Once you reply to this (so I know you've seen it) I'm going to move your thread over to the men's section. You won't get many replies over here.

 

And yes, there is hope for your marriage. I'll be back later and we'll start getting down to what you need to learn.

[TimothyPaul]

Hey John - Welcome. The following was posted to me when I joined the forums - thought I would share it with you.

 

TP

 

 

Posted 09 November 2009 - 03:36 PM

Welcome TimothyPaul.

*Warning Long Post Ahead*

Continue to listen to the counsel given and be teachable. There is no magic pill to make your wife respond. But, you hold such power over the future of your family with the choices that you make from this point forward.

 

Please read the strings of For Him For Her, Ulysee798, and HerDensity.

http://forums.godsavemymarriage.com/index.php?/topic/21-the-dying-process-is-so-hard/

http://forums.godsavemymarriage.com/index.php?/topic/1222-please-pray-for-me-and-my-young-family/

http://www.joelandka...?t=1534&start=0

 

The first two are men who, like you, drove their wives to make the ultimate choice of leaving. Their journeys are not yet over, but their teachability have made their lives and their choices motivated from a place of walking in God's ways and a place of healing. If you look at ForhimForher's latest page, it will give you hope, then go back and read from the beginning to see his journey.

 

The last is a man who has successfully ministered to his wife's heart and really has a powerful grasp of the humility needed to become God's man, which is what his wife needs him to be as the Head, source of life and strength. You can do a search of his counsel to other men and get a great dose of truth that will shorten your own learning curve. His almost year-long journey of discovering how to be the husband his wife needs is very informative.

 

Along with the men, the women here will give you invaluable counsel from a woman's perspective. Respect them and welcome their words into your counsel. If a man shows disrespect to the counsel of women or minismizes their insight, he will never be able to receive the heart of his wife. Likely the same conditions which have trashed his wife's heart, are at the risk of trashing other women. Resist this temptation if that is where your flesh wants to go, and trust the process.

 

Here is my counsel to maximize the use of these message boards:

 

First, the feedback or insight about your life or your relationship is neither good nor bad. It is just feedback. So try not to be so judgmental or "shoot the messenger" if you don't agree with them. BTW, we are not "haters", really, we all have busy lives full of responsibilities and our own share of challenges. When someone takes the time to post, 90% of the time it is with really good intentions.

 

Second, when you receive another's insight or perspective, consider that they may have many decades of life experiences to draw from, so try not to paint us all in such broad strokes of whether we are "exactly" like your situation or not. When you do this, you miss out on some really helpful information.

 

Third, when you find you are resistant to what someone is saying, be willing to ask yourself some questions like:

Why does this make me so angry?

Is this too painful for me to look at right now?

Do I want to be right, or do I want to walk in truth and love?

Sometimes staying in the questions can tell you alot about yourself and your belief system. Sit with it awhile before you react. I know this is difficult at times, but can give you precious time to really hear from the Spirit of God as He wants to lead you in the truth.

 

Fourth, Suggestions, advice or insight about your life and situations are like jackets: they won't all fit you, but you won't know until you try it on.

Sometimes it doesn't fit because it is too tight; we find it limits us and what our head is telling us is right for us. We are sure it will squeeze the life right out of us if we try. Maybe God wants us to lose some excess weight to fit into it.

Sometimes it doesn't fit because it is too loose; we might have to grow up a little and grow into the fit that ultimately will be fabulous.

Sometimes it doesn't fit us because we judge it to be absurdly stupid or uncool; we see it like it will be permanent and perhaps the jacket is only for the current season.

Sometime it doesn't fit us because it is for a different occasion. It might be perfect then, but right now doesn't seem the right fit.

Sometimes it is a lovely jacket, but after consideration, and trying it on for a bit, we see that it really isn't for us. It doesn't mean that the giver was wrong; they were sincerely trying to meet your heartfelt need for a jacket.

 

Fifth, It is more effective when you stay here on your own thread and in this case, let your wife, should she actually start a thread, have her thread to herself. When you "hijack" her thread, you control the thread and people find themselves responding to you and her questions go unspoken. By all means, read her thread, but talk about yourself and express yourself on your own.

This is more efficient.

This is more courteous.

This is more emotionally mature.

This gives a woman greater emotional safety and the freedom to speak her mind without the fear of retribution or defensiveness from you.

 

Sixth, trust the process and surrender the outcome. Life is not tidy, it is very, very messy. You can't wrap relationships up in a few months of "to do" lists. It doesn't work that way. But, if you trust that the Lord has called you to seek wise counsel and that He will prosper you when you seek His ways, you can trust the outcome to Him. The outcome will be what it will be. Trying to control it completely is like trying to play God. You end up, face down in the mud, wondering how did it all go so wrong.

 

Seven, and for now my final suggestion, You always get to choose. When someone asks you to do something, or makes a suggestion that you do something or even requires you to do something, you always get to choose. You make a choice and you are also choosing the consequences of that choice. So, you are never in jail, metaphorically speaking. You have made all your own choices in your adult life. Some of which you are proud of, some which have nearly destroyed you, and some which you don't even know why you did what you did. Nonetheless, they are your choices. Others also are affected by our choices, so the consequences of our choices are almost never in isolation. Your wife also has choices. You cannot choose for her. You cannot control her. She has to choose for herself. The sooner you get this concept, the better all of your relationships will be: with God, with yourself, with wife, with family, with everyone.

 

I hope you find this helpful.

Firewalker

 

[John Broken]

Thank you very much TP!

 

So, Looney any comments in regards to the information I have provided up to this point? From what I have read so far, the denial of self in Christ like love is right, I know this in my own spirit. I know the pain I feel from my wife being so hard towards me is the result of what I have put in her. I have created what she has become, I get so tempted to get upset and resentful but I know I made her this way. How can I blame her? How can I do anything but try to love her out of the hell I have made her? I have come to the point I try not to do anything that draws on her to "give" me something back. Its too much for her I know. She has nothing left to give me. Though Im dying inside and the pain is almost unbearable I constantly pray God give me grace and mercy to endure the pain while I love her regardless. Im literally laying my life down for her, its the least I can do. I now understand Christs love for us..."while we were yet sinners, He loved us" I want to do this for my wife!!!

[4evrHZdtr3]

 

Though Im dying inside and the pain is almost unbearable I constantly pray God give me grace and mercy to endure the pain while I love her regardless. Im literally laying my life down for her, its the least I can do. I now understand Christs love for us..."while we were yet sinners, He loved us" I want to do this for my wife!!!

 

The moment we honestly repent for our abusive or unloving ways God welcomes us with open arms and desires to lavish us with His acceptance and love. He doesnt expect us to punish ourselves by gritting our teeth and suffering because we deserve it. The death you should be dying is the urges to get or draw some life or satisfaction out of your wife - as if - she should respond to your love or owes you something, anything in return.

 

While you are loving your wife- with no expectations of reponse or return - at the same time you should be loving yourself by drawing from your Heavenly Father - by seeking His nods and smiles.. His words, His nourishment.. He's not a story in a book or a set of commandments or principles. He's real and He's present - for you and to you. He's your source of approval and encouragement- through your listening prayers, your individual (private) and corporate worship, reading and learning the Word and fellowship with other men.

[Looney_Tunes]

OK, let's get down to the homework.

 

First, read this thread and check off all of the ways you have abused your wife. This is not to put you into shame mode, but so that you can get an accurate assessment of the problem. Most people are surprised at the things that qualify as abuse.

 

Then I generally ask every man who comes here to read the following threads . . . For Him For Her laid it out well in a post to someone else, so I am going to copy it here to save myself some typing. Please heed his comments at the end.

 

http://forums.godsav...ore-herdensity/

 

http://forums.godsav...ess-is-so-hard/

 

http://forums.godsav...-2-timothy-314/

 

http://forums.godsav...ere-do-i-start/

 

Steve now has a good marriage with his wife.

I did not win my wife's heart back.

Tim has not YET won his wife's heart back but they have an amazing relationship now in which it allows for God to do what God does.

Michael is now happily remarried practicing all that he has learned here.

 

You have four men with what appears on the surface to be four different results but it is so far from the truth. All four of us have the exact same results. We each have a one on one relationship with Jesus Christ that none of us would have had at this point in our lives had it not been for walking out this process. And we each have peace in knowing God wants only good for us. We each stayed commited to our walk inspite of any and all circumstances that we each had to face. We listened and we continued to walk even when things made no sense whatsoever. Why? Because we each realized the power of " Seek First the kingdom of God".

 

When we began to seek HIM first, our hearts began to open. This process can not be done without first seeking HIM and with an open heart. It just can't. No one here wants to see you get divorced but we must do what God wants us to do first and that is to point you and lead you to HIM. It MUST be your primary goal. You must seek HIm with everything in you. Once your relationship with HIM is where HE wants it to be, the Holy Spirit will guide you to exactly where HE wants you to go. Christian woman are constantly seeking Christ and they will find it. The goal for you is for her to find it in you first.

 

Do not make this an "I want my wife back" program. Make this a " through the love of Jesus Christ now in my heart my wife wants us back together" program.

I have helped hundreds of men in the last 5 1/2 years and this is the only way it has ever worked.

 

God Bless

David

 

That should keep you busy for a few days. I'll have more for you when you're done with those. While you're reading, please come back and post what you're learning and any questions you might have. Tim and David hang around here regularly - Stephen and Michael not so much, but if you want to ask them something I can make sure they see it.

 

Join the men's calls. It's a $100 per month donation for 3 calls per week - that's at least 24 hours of help per month - and you would call Joel to set that up. Finances are tight for everyone, but this should be a priority.

 

I would also suggest listening to 2-3 couples' calls per week. There is a call every night except Friday. You will learn a lot by listening to us counsel other couples, and if no couples are speaking up then we open the call to people who are on without their spouse. Tim and I run Monday night.

 

That should get you started - let me know when you're done with the threads and we'll move on from there.

[John Broken]

Ok thanks!

 

What about my wife? How do I handle her? She is not yet willing to even think about counseling, reading anything about marriage, shes not reading her word, not listening to Christian music etc. She just very hard and resentful which I understand. Do I just leave it alone? I mean who am I now to prod her back into the word and righteousness etc., right? How passive should I be? I almost feel like im being seen as too passive and weak, almost to the point of being a "turn-off" to her, especially since she is in a more carnal hardened state. Its like sometimes I am being so nice it irritates her. Is it because she doesn't yet feel it is sincere or something? I just don't know. I am trying so hard to understand her...

[MaryJane]

Definitely do NOT prod your wife to get back into the Word or listen to Christian music, no matter how carefully you plan to do it! It will feel like control to her -- which it will be, anyway. She already knows what's right, right?

 

Keep drawing confidence and emotional security for yourself, from Christ. Keep BEING Christlike in your home. For a time, it may seem that you can't "do anything right" when it comes to serving and honouring your wife. She is far too hurt to be able to respond warmly to your efforts yet. Keep up the good work, even so. Let her see -- by your actions, day in and day out -- that you are truly becoming a changed man!

 

She WILL notice.

 

As for passivity, there is a huge difference between that and humility. Passivity is weak. Humility is strong.

 

Humility is very attractive.

[4evrHZdtr3]

I agree totally with MJ... and here's something else to look at:

 

 

 

What about my wife? How do I handle her? Your wife doen't need to be 'handled.' She's not a project. I realize this is just a man way of thinking and talking... but consider the attitude of your heart that would allow you to regard her as a problem to be fixed or handled.

 

She is not yet willing to even think about counseling, reading anything about marriage, shes not reading her word, not listening to Christian music etc. She just very hard and resentful which I understand. And so does God! He's not worried about it. Why should you be? Remember, part of Christlikeness is that Jesus only said or did what He heard or saw from the Father. This is where you connect with God your Father and get some of these answers.

 

Do I just leave it alone? I mean who am I now to prod her back into the word and righteousness etc., right?

 

Why would this ever be necessary?? Sounds a little bit old-school to me. Where the husband is the dominant spiritual head that leads his wife into knowledge and truth about God because she submits to him as the leader and head of the household. It also sounds fear-based to me.

 

How passive should I be? I almost feel like im being seen as too passive and weak, almost to the point of being a "turn-off" to her, especially since she is in a more carnal hardened state. With these words you are showing that you are still referencing your spiritual state to hers. There should be NO concern about her possible inability to see you correctly due to her spiritual condition - which actually, you are judging, just because you can't see the usual outward actions right now that you have come to depend upon. What you experience or see as hardened could be something different. Trust me on this one. I know.

 

Where do you get the "turn-off" thoughts? Is it something she has communicated to you? Or an old image you are serving? Remember you are to LISTEN to what she is communicating - not desperately trying to get her approval and acceptance. Quit trying to decipher her every move and bodily action. Give her space to be angry. To be hurt. To feel. To be who she wants to be right now. Without condemnation or expectation.

 

Your job is to simply LOVE her as you continue to seek how to become more Christlike. Your example and your LOVE will naturally draw her heart to open up to God first. As she begins to open back up to God, she will then have a more clear choice about opening back up to you.

 

Its like sometimes I am being so nice it irritates her. Is it because she doesn't yet feel it is sincere or something? I just don't know. I am trying so hard to understand her...

CHECK your MOTIVES.. Your niceness could be irritating her if you are pouring it on in an attempt to elicit a response. She will feel that and become angry. If you are doubling, tripling your efforts to get her to notice, then it isn't sincere. It's manipulative.

 

Living with your wife in knowledge (some translations say understanding) means this: that you set out to learn how to honor your wife and allow her to be herself and you do so with confidence. It doesn't mean that you personally will understand everything about her. Her mystery is a gift to you. Your confidence should not flow from the reactions she gives or doesn't give. Your confidence should flow from the fact that you are consistently doing God's Word.

 

[John Broken]

Thank you MJ!

 

Great stuff, you hit the nail on the head. About humility and passivity, how are they expressed to where one is attractive and one seems weak and unattractive? Is Godly humility, passivity with confidence as if everything is still fine even if im not getting anything in return because I love you regardless, but passivity is being passive and expressing down-faceness as if "poor me" not getting anything back? What exactly makes one attractive and the other not? Im having trouble being passive with her in a way that seems unattractive.

 

I mean Jesus was passive yet very strong, never seeming weak even though He was submissive. I want to be that way with my wife.

[John Broken]

Thanks, 4evr, will respond when I can, thank you!

[4evrHZdtr3]

Humility and passivity are not the same thing at all. They are not even related.

 

Humble, or humility, from the Strong's Concordance, means "lowly in heart" or "of low degree"

This translates into preferring your wife in thought, word or deed.. not trying to be right.. not having the final word or the first word, opening the doors, holding her chair, looking for ways to make her work load easier, asking her how you can help her. Active listening ( a specific technique) is a GREAT way for a woman to feel valued and esteemed.

 

Passivity does not even appear in the Bible. The free dictionary defines it this way: "a maladaptive mental state of submission, dependence, or inactivity"

 

When a man is passive he has given up his free will and has chosen to hide from the things he fears... to become dependent upon his wife's strength.. to need his wife in such a way that he is not drawing from God and other men... and usually when men are this passive, they are also very secretly angry and resentful...

Passivity is the exact opposite of what God calls a man to be.. a source of strength and life.. an initiator.

[Looney_Tunes]

This is what passive looks like ~

 

Passiveness usually starts in childhood. As little boys, our voices are squelched. This happens from various sources: mothers, fathers, teachers, coaches and so on. We are told we are not allowed to have feelings and shut up before we get in trouble. In the beginning it is driven by fear. We are afraid of making adults angry and wanting to please the people in our lives. We do as we are told. Over time, we teach ourselves to disconnect from our feelings. If the right combination of adults are in our lives growing up, we become zombie like. The only things we can feel are physical things. I believe this is one of the reasons passive men fall into

addictions so deeply.

 

As we are growing up and being driven by fear, we rarely take the initiative to do any thing because we see that only when we follow the "rules" is there peace. Now take this mind set into something as simple as cleaning our rooms. We don't dare do anything unless we are told. So, our room stays a wreck. We don't clean it up for awhile. Our mother sees the room after a few weeks and can't take the mess any longer. So, she cleans the room. We come back home and our room is clean and we didn't have to do a thing to get it cleaned up. Boom! This is how I can get my way. I don't do anything for a while and the people whom it drives crazy will step in and do it for me.

 

These type things are where we learn there is power in being passive and waiting for the world to change for ME. I can control my world now. I hold power in my hands. As a male, we are born with an inate need to control/lead/conquer. Certain temperaments in the control area have a higher need for this than others. If you add in temperaments in inclusion that are introspective, you have recipe for a lot of internal anger.( I have a great need to control but I am not allowed to control anything. I think internally but once I have an answer it needs to come out but I am told I am not allowed to share it because it is considered a feeling which I am not allowed to have.) It is a horrible thing for a child.

 

Now we have a kid full of resentment whom has found a way to get what he wants without have to do anything. He has spent years feeling like he didn't matter or didn't exist or wasn't worth anything. The resentment fuels his anger anytime he can't get what he wants. With this new found power he will do anything to get what he wants because over time this is the only way his brain thinks he is somebody. He HAS to be somebody. The thoughts of being a nobody and nothing feeds his fear. Now we have resentment and fear driving us to anger. While stuck in this cycle, we are always in defense mode. We are because over time we lose the ability to control the cycle. It just becomes who we are. This is not an excuse but a reason.

 

Now enter a woman we "think" we love. We court her and show her everything she needs to see in order for her to choose us. In the beginning she is feeling loved because we are initiating in positive words and actions. Naturally, she responds with love. On the surface this looks like a great relationship but it isn't. The man wants to hurry and push her into marriage because he desperately needs to go back to where he feels the most comfortable, doing nothing. I litterally had this conversation in my head before I married. Of course, this didn't dawn on me until I started walking this out because I was so stuck in cycle I rarely remembered these type things.

 

Now the kid is married and can relax. He can go back to the way things "should" be. His wife notices a change and immediately begins to nuture as she is called to do. The passive guy sees this and exploits it to the hilt. The more she pursues. The more he stops doing. The reality is there is nothing she can give him to make him change. It takes the realization of losing the most important thing in his life to step out of the mad world he has created. They need to be on an island all alone. This is where God can come in.

 

As the kid/man walks through life, he loses touch with God because he spends so much time controling the world, and enjoying every single minute of it, that he can't allow God in. God will ruin it and force him to do things he doesn't want to do just like all the other people in his life as a child. He's played that game before and will NOT play it again. As in my other post on this subject, he slowly loses the desire for the truth. For the truth will force him to change back. Nope! Not going to happen to me again.

 

The man puts all of this in a pot and stirs it. He stirs it to his taste and his taste only. There is only one spoon and he refuses to let anyone else use it to stir. God included.

 

Yes a passive man can eventually have a real relationship with God but only after he has conquered his passiveness with the help of the Holy Spirit. Passiveness is a learned behavior. It can be broken. It is only a matter of retraining the brain which usually happens when the loss I spoke of earlier occurs. And the "thing" is different for different men. You would think losing his family would do it but unfortunately it is not the case.

 

I know passive men can change because I have. The thought of losing Lee broke me. At that point, I knew I couldn't continue to do it the same old way. I use to have a saying ( This is my world and I allow you to live in it). I truly believed it until my heart finally felt true loss. I was the king/ruler of my world. Now, I know there is but one KING. I had to surrender to HIM in order for me to be free. I am free.

 

God did not create any man to be passive. It's something that you learn, because in your childhood and in your family of origin, it works. Children repeat behaviors that work. Trouble is, they don't work when you're an adult, but by that time they're so ingrained that you usually don't even realize you're doing them.

 

Humilty, on the other hand, is not a character trait, but is gained by spending time with Christ. It is caring for the needs of others before caring for your own needs. It is quiet strenth - a strength that is there and is recognized by everyone around you without you pointing it out. Spend some time studying how Christ interacted with people. He didn't run over them, but he was strong. He didn't keep his mouth shut in fear, but told them what they needed to hear while caring for their feelings. He didn't wait for everyone except God to tell him what to do, but listened to the Father and then confidently stepped out and did what he was called to do. That's humility, and that's the man your wife is looking for.

[John Broken]

4evr,

 

What about my wife? How do I handle her? Your wife doen't need to be 'handled.' She's not a project. I realize this is just a man way of thinking and talking... but consider the attitude of your heart that would allow you to regard her as a problem to be fixed or handled.

 

I guess a better word would have been "interact" instead of "handle." I don't look at her as a project. I know I am the problem, im just really confused on how to interact with her now. I mean I want to show her affection but shes not real receptive and sometimes irritated with it. Do I completely avoid it? I feel if I do then I'm back to not showing her affection etc. How do I balance it? I want to give her attention, but again many times it irritates her, but many times she connects with me and I can still feel she loves my like she used to, but those moments are few and in between. I can feel it and see it in her eyes. I can also see in her eyes many times fight the feelings back as if trying to "wipe" the feelings out more and more. Like shes trying to distance herself from me. I know she is terrified to open back up and be vulnerable again. I feel like its a tap dance, like I am walking through a mine field moment by moment.

 

How do I receive / respond to her "meanness / snappiness?" She gets to the point of being very harsh and cold it seems the more I try to be good to her. Then later she will say she is sorry or that she knows she shouldn't treat me that way etc. I tell her every time I am the one who has lead her to that, I made her hard. I can actually recall over the last few years seeing her become more like me over time, I knew it was happening, the harsher I was the harsher I could see her becoming. Now that I have repented and have a changed heart, thanks be to God Almighty, it kills me to see her left out in the cold being so hard and stuck in her condition being defiant, willful and hard towards God also. What have I done? Why does she have to suffer because of my sins I ask God all the time. Of course I know our sins affect those around us, it just hurts to see it.

 

What you experience or see as hardened could be something different. Trust me on this one. I know.

 

Could you explain this more?

 

Your job is to simply LOVE her as you continue to seek how to become more Christlike. Your example and your LOVE will naturally draw her heart to open up to God first. As she begins to open back up to God, she will then have a more clear choice about opening back up to you.

 

I guess my question is how do I love her without aggravating her like I mentioned above?

 

 

Thanks!

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney!

 

An interesting issue we have is she tells me she feels like she doesn't have a choice. She says my prayers are trapping her. She says she knows God wants to save marriages etc., but that she still have freewill. She says she wishes she could have found out she doesn't really love this other guy so she could "know she really loves me and cant live without me." But like I said, they have stopped talking because she wouldn't leave me or ask me to leave. So he told her "lets just be friends." I know how that makes her feel, it makes her want that person even more! People want what they can't have! She is struggling with it very much. I know in her heart she is doing what is "right" in Gods eyes (staying with me) even though she feels because of my adultery 20 yrs ago she can still leave. I feel she resents me for this, feeling me and God are essentially making her do what she (at the moment) doesn't want to do. She tells me "I really don't care about either of you, I care about the Lord and what He wants"

 

She is an amazing woman! I know even through all this she is desperately trying to listen to God in her heart when everything else in her being is pulling her the other way! I can feel her resentment towards me for it!

 

How do I give her the freedom she speaks of? Do I stop praying for our marriage so she doesn't feel trapped? I almost feel like thats the only way for her to not resent me.

 

So confused!

 

Thanks!

[Looney_Tunes]

Have you started on the threads I suggested? You will get a lot of answers to your questions as you read through them.

 

You initiate life and love into your relationship, and you allow your wife to respond however she chooses. It is very important to respect any boundaries she has set - ie. if she has said she doesn't want to be kissed, then don't. Otherwise, you are simply showing her that you don't care how she feels . . . again.

 

We advise men to do what we call the 20/20/20/20 every day - aim to give your wife 20 hugs, 20 smiles, 20 kisses, and 20 compliments every day. If she doesn't want to be touched, then obviously the hugs and kisses are out. However, you don't have to touch her to smile at her, and you don't have to touch her to compliment her. Smile whenever you make eye contact. Compliment her as a natural part of the conversation - for instance, if she's working on a project, you could admire it and tell her how creative she is.

 

Here's the catch - no matter what we say, we girls want to be persued. If she says she doesn't want to see you, and you just turn and walk away, part of her is going to thing Sheesh, he didn't try very hard! He must not want to be with me as much as he says he does. There is a fine line between persuing and bulldozing, though, and you have to find it, because it's different for every wife. Yeah, I know it makes you crazy, but that's how God wired us.

 

How do I receive / respond to her "meanness / snappiness?

 

How do you think Christ would respond? There's your answer. You have to love her where she's at. Sometimes where she's at changes in the blink of an eye, and many times you won't particularly like where she's at. Love her anyway.

 

Are you praying out loud for your marriage? If so, stop. It's making her uncomfortable. You can still pray, but don't do it within her earshot. You give her space by respecting her need for it and not following her around the house with sad puppy eyes. You let her get away from you if she needs to. If she's doing something in another room, check in with her every hour or so - less often if it seems to annoy her - and see if she needs anything. Stay positive. You shouldn't go around acting like nothing's wrong, but you shouldn't be dragging around looking miserable. That's not attractive to any woman.

 

Remember to always think in terms of giving to her and not taking something from her. Have you ever had someone say I love you and known that it wasn't for your benefit, but because they wanted to hear you say it back? That's what I'm talking about. Don't give her a compliment because it makes you feel better, give her one that makes her feel good. Don't expect any kind of response. It's a gift to her, and gifts don't require payment.

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney!

 

Ironically one of my problems for her was I would spend to much time on the computer. She was right, I got into gaming with guys at work etc, amazing the time it consumes. So I haven't been able to read as much as I would like. Just checking emails etc causes her to say things like "your back on that computer again." So I try to do fly-bys here, hehe sorry!

 

No I don't pray in front of her per say, she just knows as a husband I am praying for our marriage. I feel like I shouldn't because shes resentful and feels my prayers are trapping her. Should I not pray for my marriage??? What a pickle, I want to respect her wishes, but also want to pray for us. I have prayed to the Lord that if I will not be the husband she needs then don't put her through this again with me please. I'll let her go for her own happiness, even if its with another man. I feel its at least the one good thing I could do for her. Back in Feb, the Lord told me in order to love her the right way I have to be willing to put her on the alter to the Lord. Willing to give her back to the Lord. I know she was a gift to me! I broke out in tears, I didn't want to give her up! But I made that decision to give her back to the Lord, put her on the alter to the Lord. I told God I chose to love her enough to let her go and be happy if she couldn't be happy with me. It killed me. I realized I loved her for "me" for what I wanted and not for her happiness.

[Looney_Tunes]

Since computer time is an issue, you'll have to get creative. I know that it's possible to save threads as PDFs and print them out - you'll kill a few trees but then you can read them without being on the computer. If she asks what you're reading, tell her it's about becoming a more Christlike man.

 

You should keep praying. We draw the line at a wife asking her husband to do something that is clearly against God's will. Just don't do it in front of her. If she says it makes her feel trapped, tell her that you understand why she feels that way. You can also spend more time praying that God will show you how to become Christlike so that you can heal her heart - she might sense something different if you do that rather than specifically praying for your marriage to be restored.

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney!

 

I am having trouble with showing her affection, touching, kissing, saying "are you ok," etc... One minute I can tell she wants it and accepts it but then other times out of nowhere she doesn't even to the point of sounding hateful. There is no indicators that I can see or sense to let me know when its ok or not. For example when we sleep, i'll put my arm around her, but she mostly always faces away from me. She will later admit she likes it when I hold her. But then there are times when I try to hold her and she rejects it. Its getting to the point I almost feel like Im reaching for a mouse trap or something! Is it going to snap or not? This plays out also during our day together, the same principle. Holding her hand, little kisses, strokes around her neck, and rubs on her back etc. Alot of times it all feels like "normal", she takes it and responds as if everything is good. But then, snap goes the mouse trap the next time! Its making me very hesitant and that in turn causes my actions of affection towards her to increasingly feel less "true" because Im so weary. Does that make sense?

 

I struggle in my mind thinking "well maybe I should just avoid all affection", but I think "well I dont want to because then I am back to "ignoring" her it would seem. She is just very unpredictable right now, understandably so.

 

I think one of her real issues is her feelings she developed for this other man. Like I said they have stopped communicating but she says in a weird way because it has no closure. He said lets just be friends. He was trying to get her to make me move out, separate from me etc., so they could get serious. So she says its like they are at a stand still, she knows he loves her, she said she felt she loved him to, at least very strong feelings. She tells me she cant help her feelings for him, they just dont go way by themselves. She says shes trying, shes not initiating any communication with him and neither is he. But she did tell me she looks on her facebook and can tell hes looking at her page. She tells me she having a hard time letting it go. She feels it like could be her only chance at being happy etc. I understand the delima she is in. I know its so hard for her to commit back with me. She is scared to be vulnerable to me again I know. "Will he revert back to leaving me alone," "being mean" etc.

 

She tells me she doesnt know where shes at. She still hasnt put back on her wedding ring. She just so afraid to make a move either way. I pray for her everyday! How can she endure this? What do I need to do? Is there hope? She has mentioned she knows Gods will is to restore marriage etc. So I know shes wrestling with the Lord. And during so shes resenting me for it.

 

Another point to mention is, I used to not "be there for her" like I should, I know this. I got into doing things I liked and wanted to do to much. But now since I have repented and for the last couple months me and her spend all day together working around the house, doing things she wants to do, even to the point she says "but I feel like Im taking your life away, I feel guilty, you cant keep this up forever etc" but I always revert to "husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and GAVE himself for her." We talk all day in terms of "our future" (this gives me hope) all day she says ok we need to do this so next year we can do this and that. We need to get these things taken care of so we can have this in the future" etc. What should I make of this kind of communication? To me it feels like in her heart she has already decided to stay and be committed to our marriage. But at times I feel like she needs to vent audibly that she doesnt know what she wants, I think that gives her a sense of security that shes not "stuck" with me etc. Make any sense?

 

I truly want to lay my life down for her now. I spent almost 20 years "saving my life" for good ol me! I was very immature and selfish. She loved me more than I deserved and always prayed God would keep us together. Amazing woman! I pray everyday that her happiness is what makes me happy! I know all these feelings can be just initial desires, but I truly want to be this way for the rest of her life. I feel she got the bad end of the stick the first part of our marriage and now I want the rest to be all for her!

Edited May 7, 2013 by John Broken

[Looney_Tunes]

Alot of times it all feels like "normal", she takes it and responds as if everything is good. But then, snap goes the mouse trap the next time! Its making me very hesitant and that in turn causes my actions of affection towards her to increasingly feel less "true" because Im so weary. Does that make sense?

 

Yes, it makes perfect sense. You are basing your actions on her response. That is the opposite of initiating. That is being the wife in the marriage.

 

You are to initiate hugs, smiles, kisses and compliments no matter how she responds, and you are not allowed to get your shorts in a knot if she rejects you at any particular moment. She is broken and hurting, and sometimes she just can't stomach having you touch her. There is no mouse trap. She is not out to get you, and she is not trying to be mean or trip you up. She is hurting.

 

Are you a dog person? I often use the analogy of imagining that your dog got hit by a car. You run over and try to help her, and when you reach out to touch her, she bites you. She doesn't suddenly hate you, and she hasn't suddenly become aggressive. She is in pain, and all she sees when you reach for her is more pain. What would you do in that situation? Would you feel rejected and walk away, leaving her in the road? No. You'd wrap something around your finger and do what you needed to do to help her. I'm not trying to compare your wife to a dog, but the principle is the same.

 

I can't tell from your post, but I hope you are not talking about the other guy unless she brings it up. She knows what she did was wrong. Her feelings are very normal. If she wants to talk about it, that's fine - then you listen and tell her you understand that she felt so lonely and rejected that she needed to get attention from someone else. Tell her that you're sorry you made her feel that way. Then you work on making yourself the best husband you can possibly be, so that when she makes a choice, she chooses you.

 

What should I make of this kind of communication? To me it feels like in her heart she has already decided to stay and be committed to our marriage.

 

It only means that her heart is not totally closed to you. She has not decided one way or the other, but she is trying to give you a chance. Consider yourself blessed. She is going to blow hot and cold, and that's normal. There will be days - or moments - when she sees a glimpse of what she wants in you, and other days when she wonders why she is being so stupid. Love her where she's at.

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney!

 

My heart burns with tears in my eyes when I read your guys responses. I can feel the truth in them, the truth of Christ's love that never fails. Its so sad how we as men can perceive everything wrong in a selfish way. The injured dog analogy was beautiful! Its so easy to perceive the "bites" and "growls" as enmity, when instead its fear and pain. That helps me a lot, thank you! I can understand Jesus on the cross, "forgive them, for they know not what they do." He saw through His own pain and selfishness to see their condition instead. Amazing. I can feel the old man dying, being shed like old skin. It feels amazing putting on the mind of Christ.

 

Ok now in regards to the initiating. Do I understand that I am to initiate (hugs, kisses, touches, compliments etc.) not worrying about how she will receive it? (I worry I will upset her and push her away further.) Do I initiate and count the bad responses as "acceptable causalities" in order to infuse the attention (hugs, kisses etc) she needs and does receive? In other words the bad responses are worth the good ones?

 

And yes I try not to bring up the "other guy" but I have at times just because I selfishly try to read where she is at with him. Its so hard to "wonder" where she is at. But now that you mentioned I will not bring it up again unless she does. One thing about this woman, she is a very honest Godly woman and will not play games. It hurts, some of the things shes told me killed me, but she has told me everything. She knows what she did and she has several times verbally spoke about her sin in it. "I was married, I shouldn't have let it go as far, I should have stopped when I knew we where flirting," etc. But shes also explained to me how she has rationalized it out in her favor. "You committed adultery years ago, I have the right now to divorce because of that, I told God I want out finally, my heart burned when I prayed about this other person, God told me He could bless me either way."

 

I am tormented because I don't know what God is doing. Did He give her someone else? Have I lost her? If thats the case, I know God can only do what is just and I deserve it. I would just like to know. Like I said God asked me if I am willing to love her enough (for her to be happy to chose to be free etc) to give her back to me by placing her on the alter like Abraham and Issac. It killed me and I finally said I love her enough to let her go if thats the only way she can be happy. I wept bitterly. I didn't feel like God was saying give her up shes given to someone else. But more like was I willing for that to happen IF she chose that. But in my heart I feel like I have the same hope Abraham had, "Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death." I feel I have slain my wife emotionally, but I am trusting God I can "receive her back from death" if I am willing.

Edited May 7, 2013 by John Broken

[Looney_Tunes]

Yes, you keep initiating the HSKC unless she specifically asks you to stop - not in the moment, but if she says, "Don't hug me anymore." You accept the bad responses as simply where she is at the moment, and you don't keep score. This is about giving her the oxytocin she needs. Agape love gives without expecting anything back.

 

If you are tormented because you don't know what God is doing, then you need to come to a better understanding of His heart. Face it, most of the time we don't know what Gid's doing! Do you trust Him to have your best interests at heart and to work all things together for good, or do you have to be in control of the outcome? More importantly, what if the outcome is not what you hope for? Remember that your wife has free will too, and God will not force her to do anything. Will you blame God if she doesn't choose you?

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney,

 

No, God can only do what is right, I could not blame Him for the outcome of what I created. I have told Him I am willing to let her go if that is her choice or His will for us. I just don't know what to do in the mean time. I've laid my life down in every aspect, to the point I feel she doesn't respect me and sees me as weak. I do everything she wants. I do everything to avoid making her upset which i think is causing problems itself. For example, when I feel I should not give my son his way about something because of the way he is behaving, she would rather just give him his way to stop the "pressure" he is creating wanting his way etc. Or like lately she loves to go shopping, and I understand it gives her a temporary sense of relief but we are spending too much money, to the point we cant afford to purchase other things that are essential. I don't want to be confrontational with her at all because she is under so much pressure already. Thats just one issue.

 

Another issue is her feelings with the "other" person she got close to. Its killing her, I can see it. She got no closure with this person. He wanted her to leave me or just be friends. She didn't know if she could live without me and didn't want to chance loosing me and him not being what she thought. (hes unsaved, thats a requirement for her, but she tends to think she could lead him there and that God told her He could bless them etc) She says shes trying to love me, but its hard for her because I am with her and shes never lost me, so its hard for her to really feel how much she loves me and all she feels at the moment is the "loss" of this other person. Says even if she does't choose him, she still cares about him and would like to know how hes doing and all that. Shes praying God helps her, she doesn't want to contact this person, she wants God to deal with it.

 

So should I still be give her the HSKC while she has feelings for this other person? I feel its pushing her away, or making my touch and kisses etc more and more numbing to her, like they gradually mean less to her. Because shes not receiving them with her heart. Does that make sense? But then other times she cuddles up and receive it, but not as much. She will make statements like I know I can't live without you, I do love you etc. But they are brief and fleeting. I'm just so confused, I want to be and give her what she really needs.

 

And then on top of all this, I know she has the issues of opening back up to me, can she trust me again etc. Shes afraid we will go back to the way we were. I can tell she is trying so hard yet so afraid to let him go 100% or commit back to me etc. I just don't see how long she can keep this up, its killing her. I know she needs to get back into the Word, and draw close to the Lord, but she is hard towards Him I know. She doesn't understand why she trusted Him for 20 years and then now I change once she "gave up". She doesn't thinks its fair ( i agree) that I get her back after just going through minor pain compared to hers, (again I agree) I feel so guilty. She says she knows its Gods will to restore marriage etc. But she wants to come to that conclusion for herself, that she doesn't want this other person but wants me, her husband. Wishes she could find out this other person isn't all that it seems like with all the fireworks and excitement of it being all new and fresh.

 

We are both just sooo confused

[MaryJane]

Have you read the threads Looney advised in this post? http://forums.godsavemymarriage.com/index.php?/topic/6623-marriage-in-distress/&do=findComment&comment=142785

[John Broken]

Mary, yes I've been trying to read as much as I can here and there and the just for men section also. My wife is having serious issues with her feelings for "the other guy", says she just cant make her feelings go away automatically and its killing her she doesn't know whats going on with him etc. They stopped communicating right at their first kiss she said and decided to be friends because she is afraid to leave me, doesn't know if she could live without me etc. But I feel like she is drifting way from me the more she misses him. You know, "absence grows the heart fondness" kind of thing, all the while I'm still here with her which she says masks her feelings for me, like she feels dead to me. How can we get through this rock and hard place? Is it possible? Can her feelings change back? Can she come alive to me again? Is she just smitten by the newness and freshness of being "rescued" by this "other guy?"

Edited June 14, 2013 by John Broken