Marriage In distress

[John Broken]

Well, shes said shes in love with this "other guy" and hes all she thinks about and can't help it. Says she feels bad, sinful and doesn't want to hurt me but she cant make her feelings go away right now. It's come up again about "taking a break from each other." Shes the one bringing it up. Saying "don't you think we just need to take a break from each other? Maybe it will let me get out of this rut, because I haven't lost you and I just don't feel anything for you right now while you are here in the midst of all this"

 

I've just got the "livin it an lovin it" book, vol 2, and have it beside the computer. I've mentioned this is the book for the woman if shes interested. But she always says "whats it matter about any of that stuff, it doesn't change how I feel about this other person or you." Says she would have loved all this had I did this a few months ago BEFORE she met the "other guy." This guy is not a Christian and that is something she requires. But she believes he might get saved, that he was acceptable to it when she talked about God etc. She is "witnessing" to him through her fb page by witnessing to one of her friends. Says she believes he is watching and reading her page and felt in her heart that he may have said the sinners prayer that she posted.

 

As of yet, they are not "talking/chatting" etc. She says she knows he is waiting for her to come back to him saying shes ending it with me, that I am moving out etc. She is openly pursuing him in front of me now. It's killing us both. She says "why aren't you getting mad and just leaving like everyone else does?" I told her it kills me to watch you feel for someone else, but I feel I don't have any room to speak, I ran around on you while you stayed with me, and this must be the pain you endured for me and still hung on. And on top of all this, I just don't know where to go or what to do or how it's even possible (sad but I just don't).

 

We have one car, she needs me to drive her places. We don't have the finances to pay this mortgage and pay for me me a "place" at the same time, we are barely making it the way it is now. I literally have no one I feel I can turn to for support. We both have no family left now, friends of my past are nothing but trouble and what lead me the wrong way to begin with. I have my foster family here in town, but haven't been around them for over 20 years. Would that be appropriate to turn to them? They are a very Godly family and who led me to Christ.

 

Initially when I feel she was thinking more "rationally" instead of just wanting to jump ship (which I can understand) she acknowledged there was just no way for us to separate right now. This was her explanation to the "other guy" who was standing his ground telling her to separate with me to get serious with him or just be friends. And thats where it stopped, just being friends. It's drove her nuts the longer hes not responded to her or come after her. Shes told me it makes her feel like maybe she wasn't good enough or maybe he thought she was just playing games or something. So she feels all this obligation etc to him, but none to our marriage.

 

I need help. Is there any support groups I can turn to here in s/w ohio? I read somewhere a guy who had nobody either and he found a group of men at some church ministry who where going through seperation. He said that was all he, a group of strangers, and it got him through, I would love to find that. I just don't know how to go at all this on my own. I don't have the skills, I am a simple man. I worked hard for my family, but she handled all the finances, etc.

[MaryJane]

John Broken, have you ever called Joel or spoken up on a conference call? If not, I would strongly advise it. Joel's number is: Cell (386)334-7873 House (386)206-3128

 

[John Broken]

MJ, thank you..

 

John Broken, have you ever called Joel or spoken up on a conference call?

 

 

No I have not. Does it cost anything etc?

[John Broken]

....and what times would he be available? I am in s/w ohio

[TimothyPaul]

JB. Just call him. We don't do his schedule.

[John Broken]

Thanks MJ and TP,

 

I called Joel today, we tried to get set up for the calls (tonight even) but I'll have to put that off for a moment, finances are just not there right now. Very frustrating on top of everything else.

 

It's getting harder to be under the same roof. Shes getting more bitter and resentful and is now on fb using zoosk (dating service) right in front of me. She says shes just enjoying the attention, that shes always had issues with herself being good enough etc and she wouldn't mess with any of these guys on here. Just interested in who "views" her etc. I feel like she is trying to make me "quit" like she has. Like shes in a self-destructive mode. Shes even said she knows God would will us to stay together but doesn't she have a choice, cant she self destruct if she wants? I am finally realizing how bad I have hurt her! Says she just wants out, doesn't want to go back into the fear and worry of "us" and what if I backslide again etc, etc. Says she just doesn't have any fight left. Says shes heart is broke over the "other-guy" (who hasnt responded back with her since feb/march) and just doesn't care about me right now. Says she felt that fear and jealousy over another woman at church last Sunday again and she doesn't want that!

 

We've talked about "taking a break" (me going somewhere for a couple weeks) so she can figure out what she wants and maybe get out of this rut shes in etc, but there is just no way for me to move out and keep paying the mortgage here etc, just don't have the money. Whats the best approach for me right now if we have to be under the same roof for now? Do I literally try to avoid her?, stay away in another room?, don't interact with her? I feel like I need to crawl in a hole to get away from her, like shes that irritated with me. How can I agape love her like this? Everything I do, anything good is seen as me just trying to "win" and not lose her. Not that I love her or have changed.

 

Dear God, what do I do?

[Looney_Tunes]

Ask her if she would be more comfortable if you slept in another room. If she says yes, make it happen tonight.

 

Otherwise, give her a little space. Ask her periodically if she needs anything, but don't hover. Don't act like nothing's wrong, but at the same time don't drag around like your favorite teddy bear is in the wash. Deep sighs and sad puppy eyes are not attractive to any woman.

 

She's scared and confused. Remember that.

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney,

 

How do I control the pain and sickening feeling I am experiencing while me and my son sit on the couch watching movies while she is right beside us actively looking through guys on zoosk? Clicking their profiles, winking at them, accepting messages etc. She keeps saying shes just having fun enjoying the attention etc., etc. It's sad because in a weird way I feel good for her that guys are interested in her by clicking her pic etc., because I have always told her she is beautiful and many guys would desire her, but she has never felt like that and of course my neglect as a life and love giving husband hasn't help't any.

 

What kind of mind set do i need to have while she is doing this in front of me? Do I passively let it go without responding at all? Do I love her where she is at letting her do it gladly? I just can't compose my attitude, it's tormenting me, but I want to have the right attitude about it all. I know it's my fault she is "there". I feel like she almost "wants" it to push me away, cause me to get upset and give up. But then she will say she couldn't stand it if I got on there checking out other woman because she thinks I would take it serious and go after someone etc.

 

On one hand I feel like by not responding to her being on there that it tells her "he don't care." I've told her it kills me but I know I am guilty and have done the same to her in the past so what room do I have to say anything etc. She feels horrible she says because she knows its killing me but that she just doesn't care right now.

 

Please tell me what my thoughts should be during this, so confused.

[Looney_Tunes]

How do I control the pain and sickening feeling I am experiencing

 

Your feelings are your feelings. Of course it hurts to see her do that. If you were trying to convince us and yourself that it didn't hurt, we'd be dealing with another issue. We all have feelings, and you're much better off understanding and acknowledging them.

 

What you can't do is dwell on those feelings. You acknowledge them, give them over to God, and replace them with something positive. If you don't do that, the emotions fill your mind and then start to control your actions, and that's a bad place to be.

 

I'm gonna let the guys help you with what to do when she's on the dating site in front of you - I know what I'd do, but that would be a woman reacting to a husband and that's a different ballgame. I will tell you that, whether she acknowledges it or not, part of her does want to know that it bothers you. Somewhere down inside, she wants to know you'll fight for her. At the same time, any attempt to control her is just gonna drive her farther away. It's a hard line to find.

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney,

 

I've come to the point where when she gets on there I just leave the room. I've told her I can't watch her do it, it kills me. I tell her I love her and I am glad she can finally see that she is "good enough" and people are interested in her, and that she is beautiful like I have been telling her. She says "oh you just say that because you love me etc., etc"

 

Today we (me and her) and our sons and his girlfriend went to a work picnic at the local zoo. They gave us a scavenger hunt list, free rides and food etc. It was a great day! Me and her where like a team today with the scavenger hunt. She really got into it and enjoyed it with me. I got to introduce her to my coworkers and bosses. All day she accepted all my attention, rubs, touches and we laughed and smiled all day. It felt "normal" again. She was giving me "those eyes" and "those looks" that I haven't seen for a long time. It was like she wanted me to be proud of her and give her attention around everyone, which I did every chance I got! Something I never really did much of in the past. Many times today she told me she doesn't feel pretty, that she feels like shes looking older etc., but I continually embraced her and made over her all day over and over. I was brought to tears many times because I see now what my neglect and harshness has done to her. She is so fragile and delicate, always has been and I crushed her softness and beauty!!! God forgive me!!! I was such a fool who took my God given angel for granted!!!! I almost felt like she "needed" me today for once! She would stop and look back for me, to see where I was at or if I was coming etc. It was awesome!

 

I took many pictures and a lot of video using my phone today just so I could go home and watch them because I just sensed once we would get back home she would probably "draw back" away from me again, which she did. I am starting to see her pain and struggle, how bad it really is for her. I never had a clue. I would give anything to relive the last 20 years with her knowing what I know now!!! All I want to do is bring healing to her somehow!! God please heal her through me if that is possible!!!! Show me how to pour life back into her broken heart and spirit!! I know God has forgiven me but seeing the damage I have done to her day in and day out tears at me and keeps my guilt fresh in front of my eyes!!! I constantly see that image I think it was that Joel mentioned of "if you could see her wounds you would see a trail of blood following her around everywhere etc"

 

How do I deal with this guilt? Seeing her pain and how its wounded her with her self image, her confidence etc., etc.

 

What can I take from how we interacted today? She was almost back to being completely open and wanting me it seemed. Does this mean there is still hope? Still a chance?

[Looney_Tunes]

What can I take from how we interacted today? She was almost back to being completely open and wanting me it seemed. Does this mean there is still hope? Still a chance?

 

You can take away the fact that, today, you made your wife feel good about herself. Because you did that, she was able to respond warmly to you.

 

You can remember the things you did, because there is a chance - not a guarantee - that if you do those things again, she will also respond warmly.

 

You can take away the fact that you have no right to expect her to do so.

 

And you can realize that the fact that you asked that question means that you are not agape loving your wife.

[For Him For Her]

Psalm 13^[a]

 

For the director of music. A psalm of David.

 

 

¹ How long, Lord? Will you forget me forever?

How long will you hide your face from me?

² How long must I wrestle with my thoughts

and day after day have sorrow in my heart?

How long will my enemy triumph over me?

 

³ Look on me and answer, Lord my God.

Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death,

⁴ and my enemy will say, “I have overcome him,”

and my foes will rejoice when I fall.

⁵ But I trust in your unfailing love;

my heart rejoices in your salvation.

⁶ I will sing the Lord’s praise,

for he has been good to me

 

God Bless

David

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney,

 

Well, she has stopped doing the "Zoosk" thing. She has moments where she can't believe she is doing it and especially in front of me. But says at times she is just so numb and doesn't care. I know she is tormented with the guilt of how she has been treating me and not caring how I feel (my fault for creating that hardness I know!). What an amazing woman! To be so hurt, confused and wounded but yet STILL care that she doesn't care about me!!!! STILL feel for not feeling for me!!! Amazing! She is so torn between her flesh (anger, resentment, bitterness and her beautiful soft tender heart!)

 

The other night, for the first time, she looked at me with compassion and a love I haven't seen for a long time and started crying for how she has been "treating me". I cried with her and explained it's ok, that I am being rebuked, and reaping what I have sown and that its not her fault! Gods hand is heavy and I accept it! His judgments are righteous and true! That I am for the first time seeing, feeling and experiencing "ME" through her eyes, and heart! If what I am feeling is a 1 to 1 of what she has been feeling, God have mercy on me!!! God touch her wounds, her pain, and her scars!! God forgive me!!!!!!!

 

On the other hand, the "other guy" has not responded or tried to get back in touch with her and it's driving her nuts. The "want what you can't have" affect. I can tell she is depressed and disappointed over him. Or is it more of being depressed of what he represented? An "escape", a "salvation" a "knight in shining armor"?? etc? She says "well looks like I am stuck with you doesn't ? You and your prayers to save our marriage is messing this other thing up!" But then yesterday as I was going to work and taking care of her (shes been sick) she said "it's me, I know your a good man, you really haven't done that bad to deserve all this, etc"

 

I am trying to agape love her, I really am, or at least the best way I understand it. But it is just so hard for me, because I know deep down inside I am wanting her back, and I can sense I am hoping "agape loving her" will cause that to happen. I can't lie to myself or deny thats how I feel. How do I change the motive and intension of my heart? Something "desperately wicked and who can know it?" I pray I love her regardless of how she responds, but I know I am always "reading" her responses as if they are like "she loves me, she loves me not" petals. Maybe I haven't died enough yet to my selfishness?

 

 

And you can realize that the fact that you asked that question means that you are not agape loving your wife

 

 

I do realize it. I want her back and deep down I can see the intention of my heart, that I hope my loving her brings her back. How do eliminate that desire as I continue to love her?

[John Broken]

FHFH, Thank you so much!!!

[John Broken]

Any thoughts? I know I am probably saying and asking the same things over and over in different ways, sorry, but I simply have no other outlet to talk to people about any of this. Ashamed to talk to coworkers, because I have tried to witness to them etc. No family or friends to turn to really. Any suggestions? I try so hard to lean on the Lord, but it's just so hard for me, I can't see Him, touch or hear Him etc. I have always struggled with doubt and that robs me of my peace I know! I feel so trapped and alone.

 

I can't turn to my wife, shes not there, I almost don't know who she is anymore. And I feel I am not close to the Lord, even though I try! Is His face hid from me? I wish I could experience the indwelling of His Spirit I once felt years ago. It was life, the fullness of joy. Without her or Him it feels like ill lose my mind. I pray He holds me together, because I feel like i am unraveling.

 

She is pursuing "the other guy" more and more the more he doesn't respond to her. The more she feels the doors aren't opening for her and "him" the more she resents me for me praying for our marriage. I've asked her "don't you see it possibly as the Lord trying to save our marriage by the doors all shutting with you and "him" as soon as I repented?" "As soon as I made the commitment to change?"

 

Should I just give up and stop pursuing her? How do I love her and yet not show her I want her and want our marriage to work etc? She resents any display of me "wanting us to make it". I don't understand, so confused. She makes me feel wrong for wanting us to make it. What don't I get here? Thanks

[Looney_Tunes]

I've asked her "don't you see it possibly as the Lord trying to save our marriage by the doors all shutting with you and "him" as soon as I repented?" "As soon as I made the commitment to change?"

 

Comments like that are just going to push her farther away.

 

Should I just give up and stop pursuing her?

 

No. Women want to be pursued, even when they say they don't. If there is anything she has specifically told you not to do - ie. don't touch me - then you should respect that, but otherwise you need to keep chasing after her heart.

 

She resents any display of me "wanting us to make it".

 

So find other things to let her know you care. Right now you need to be her best friend. Stop talking about how you want to save the marriage and just pour love into her. You need to be so safe and so supportive that when she finally gives up on the other guy, yours is the shoulder she'll cry on. If she doesn't feel like she can trust you as a friend, she'll never consider anything more.

 

Women have radar. She can feel that you're doing these things because you want to get her back, and it's making her uncomfortable because she doesn't want that at the moment. When she feels that you are doing things for her, just because you love her, she'll relax.

[John Broken]

Thanks Looney,

 

We talked again tonight walking around the block. She was getting teary eyed, and I told her "i'm sorry." She said "oh stop it." I told her I don't understand. She said "sorry doesn't change anything." I told her "I just want you to know I am sorry because any pain your feeling is the result of me ( I just knew she was crying over the "other-guy"). She said she thinks about him every day and wants to be with him etc,. etc., and has no feelings for me right now.

 

I read somewhere that "the other guy" with all his "positives" and "love kindlers" and zero negatives seems so perfect compared to a spouse with all their "negatives" and "love extinguishers." I also was reading somewhere here about a woman who "really thought" she was in love with the "other-guy," but I cant remember where I was reading that, would like to finish reading it.

 

I don't know how to process this with my wife. On one hand I think "man maybe she really doesn't love me at all and I need to just accept it and move one etc." Then on the other hand I think what if its like some of the other woman, in that it just feels good for her and is so tempting to jump ship and run into the arms of a "savior," and I need to just view it that way and keep hope and just try to keep being her "safe place" and friend. She even said that its like I am her friend and she likes doing things with me etc. But that shes always thinking of "other-guy." Says that it feels like a fraud when we go to church or outings because to everyone else it looks like everything is ok when its not.

 

How do I frame all this in my mind? So far I am trying to look at it as just loving her even if she doesn't ever love me back (but thats so hard to hold consistently. I always get sucked into despair) Then I am tempted to just tell her I give up and will let her go to him etc. Would that be loving her by letting her have what she says she wants? Or do I need to fight and try to protect our marriage through prayer etc? She resents me praying for our marriage, like I am trapping her. She says "your praying and it's messing everything up that I want and that makes me resent you more and more." How do I respond to that? So confusing.

[4evrHZdtr3]

How do I frame all this in my mind? So far I am trying to look at it as just loving her even if she doesn't ever love me back (but thats so hard to hold consistently. I always get sucked into despair) Then I am tempted to just tell her I give up and will let her go to him etc. Would that be loving her by letting her have what she says she wants? Or do I need to fight and try to protect our marriage through prayer etc? She resents me praying for our marriage, like I am trapping her. She says "your praying and it's messing everything up that I want and that makes me resent you more and more." How do I respond to that? So confusing.

 

 

Sounds to me like it's time to re-focus. Your purpose in walking this out in this order:

 

1. Become Christ-like - so that you can reflect who God really is: first to her and second to a lost and dying world-

2. Remember that you are in training to become Christ-like through loving your wife the way Christ loves the church- through service and humility

3. Understand that you "owe" this to your wife.. it is the "cost" (read privilege) you pay for the damage you caused through neglect and selfishness.

4. Know that your marriage is already broken and lost. You can't hang onto it. You may be still legally married, you may be in the same house, even.

.

5. Since it bugs her, she should never, ever know you are praying for her or your marriage. Your prayers should be private and heartfelt- conversations between you and God in which you focus on blessing her.

 

Your work is to heal her heart, not get it back for yourself! In the process of healing her heart, she may- or may not come back to you. But whether she does or not, the prize for you is that you will mature, find REAL love and become a godly man of character. To the extent that you despair and are not able to give THAT to go God and go on, you are still serving yourself, not her. You are confused because you are listening to her more closely than you are listening to God and His Word.

Just as Peter had to quit looking at the water- and turn his eyes upon Jesus, so must you, or you will sink.

Edited August 3, 2013 by 4evrHZdtr3

[Rebuilding Trust]

Sounds to me like it's time to re-focus. Your purpose in walking this out in this order:

 

1. Become Christ-like - so that you can reflect who God really is: first to her and second to a lost and dying world-

2. Remember that you are in training to become Christ-like through loving your wife the way Christ loves the church- through service and humility

3. Understand that you "owe" this to your wife.. it is the "cost" (read privilege) you pay for the damage you caused through neglect and selfishness.

4. Know that your marriage is already broken and lost. You can't hang onto it. You may be still legally married, you may be in the same house, even.

.

5. Since it bugs her, she should never, ever know you are praying for her or your marriage. Your prayers should be private and heartfelt- conversations between you and God in which you focus on blessing her.

 

Your work is to heal her heart, not get it back for yourself! In the process of healing her heart, she may- or may not come back to you. But whether she does or not, the prize for you is that you will mature, find REAL love and become a godly man of character. To the extent that you despair and are not able to give THAT to go God and go on, you are still serving yourself, not her. You are confused because you are listening to her more closely than you are listening to God and His Word.

Just as Peter had to quit looking at the water- and turn his eyes upon Jesus, so must you, or you will sink.

 

Very well put 4evrHZdtr3.......

[John Broken]

Thank you so much 4evr!

 

RT, you are such an inspiration!!! You make me feel sooo weak! I don't know how you stay focused through so much! Guess I just haven't matured much yet!

 

Looney any thoughts?

[Looney_Tunes]

What 4evr said.

 

The answer is never, ever, to give up and stop pursuing your wife. Letting her go into the arms of another man simply tells her that you really don't want her as much as you say you do. When the other guy shows his true colors and it all falls apart, she will be alone.

[John Broken]

Thank you Looney,

 

I really needed to hear that. I have been lost at sea trying to cling to God, so confused and bewildered. Nightmares, waking up in despair and panic every hour, and being attacked by the enemies greatest wish for me, to end it all. 

 

But recently I sense she has been convicted and somewhat having a softening of heart. She has been telling me she feels so evil treating me this way, the way shes being and that God will probably answer my prayer (saving our marriage) instead of hers etc etc. 

 

I just don't know. Its moment from moment, up and down, hot and cold. I get stuck like you guys say in trying to read and analyze  everything things she says and does looking for hope. (being selfish I know) but its there in me and I am trying to die to it, so hard. 

[John Broken]

     What should be my response when she tells me she just doesn't have feelings for me right now? She says she "feels" more for him right now. Thinks of him and how much better it would be etc. Wants out of "this".  

 

      From my understanding this is normal for her to feel this way right? I mean we are coming out of years of "bad" and all of the real world struggles with all its negatives while times with the "other" (a few months) has been all sparkles, fresh and new with no struggles and negatives. I listened to some sermons of John Piper "Staying married is not about staying in love" etc. His point is love is a choice (covenant love) not about "feelings" which come and go. For example God loved us right when we were unlovely and still does. Of course I know this is convenient for me since I have been for the most part the "unlovely" one with my wife. 

 

     In my mind I understand this, but how do I respond in a way that isn't insulting to her? Because I know right now she really believes the grass is greener on the other side and really "feels" more for this other guy right now. I mean how couldn't she when she is filled with much bitterness and resentment and hurt from me? 

 

     I just need help in knowing how to respond, what to say to her when she says this and asks me "what can I do about it??, this is how I "feel"?"  In my mind I think "its not about "feelings" etc but its about honoring God, our vows and forgiveness etc etc. But I just feel like I have no right to be the one telling her that after the way I have been! So I usually just say "Honey, God can and wants to restore relationships and marriages, thats His heart and I believe He will honor couples who try." But she usually goes back to saying "so Im the one who loses again?" and "you win and get to save everything."  I cant reasonably expect her to see any "hope" in me right now right? Of course it looks like a loosing option (my fault again though)

[Looney_Tunes]

Wrong response. You are making her feel guilty for how she feels.

 

Say, "After the way I've treated you, I can totally understand why you would feel that way " Just leave it at that. She doesn't need to be preached to, especially by you.

[4evrHZdtr3]

 Letting her go into the arms of another man simply tells her that you really don't want her as much as you say you do. When the other guy shows his true colors and it all falls apart, she will be alone.

 I like the first sentence in particular.

As I read through these recent posts, one thing seems to be missing to me....  It seems like there needs to be REAL talk between you and your wife. Not talk that you initiate in terms of saving the marriage - but real talk in response to her comments and questions. It seems to me that you are just trying desperately not to offend her more.. and while that's good, there needs to be real truth in these talks.

 

Something like this:

 

When she says that "God will answer your prayer and not hers" tell her that God loves her very much and you doubt that He is into choosing one person's prayers over another. Because the goal in your answers to her is to comfort her heart while speaking the truth.  Not necessarily solve the problem.

 

Or: When she says she wants out and has feelings for him: Tell her that you are committed to HER(don't say you are committed to the  marriage- even though you are)- and that you want to help HER in any way you can. That you understand her feelings and that you are sure she will make the right choice.. and that if there is anything she needs.. you will be more than happy to do it for her.

 

The paradigm you are changing here is that she gets a choice.. She is not stuck. She can move in whichever way she feels is necessary and you will not try to stop her or get in her way. She gets to choose. Even if its the other guy. And if she chooses the other guy- when she does, she will know that it was her choice. If she comes back to you- she will know that it was her choice. God is NOT mad at her and He is NOT condemning her or taking away her choice.

 

All of life is about choices. If she chooses the other guy, he will most certainly show himself to be human- "show his true colors" as LT says... then she will have another choice to make... And at that time if you are still there to catch her when the fall comes and be safe and non-condemning, things might work out. No "I told you so"

 

BUT ALWAYS remember... that the goal and prize here is that you become the Christ-like man you have been called to be....