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Okay, I'm pulling in my horns now. Glad to hear your reply.

 

And it's so good to see that you are sticking WITH this process of becoming a Christlike lover of your wife! It's encouraging, somehow, for those of us whose husbands are living in "I-don't-know-what-to-do-anymore-and-am-so-tired" land. They COULD be doing it too.

Thanks MaryJane.  Yes I am all in.  This is where God needs me to be for sure. Real men persevere.  Reading Mansfield's Book of Manly Men really inspired me of late as well.  More than ever I have a desire to be a Christlike man, getting over myself and living for my wife and children.  I am not giving up!

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Good reminder from another thread.  Thanks MaryJane.

 

You really need to get that LOVER apology down pat. 

 

L -- Listen to your wife

O -- Offer an apology

V -- Validate her feelings

E -- Embrace her if she will allow it

R -- Repent

 

That's it in brief.

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Happy Friday all.  I had a good evening with the kids last night taking them out to eat and ended up getting them both new shoes as well.  My wife was able to get out with a girlfriend for the evening. We talked briefly last night about the forums and at one point she did not want me sharing anything more about her, but she did note she thought the responses I was receiving from the helpers was good and she is OK with me continuing to post.  I am thankful she has visit the forums from time to time and hopeful one day she may start her own thread, but I did not push that.

 

We also talked about our date for tomorrow.  There is a nice steak restaurant we have not been to in awhile and planning a game of bowling as well.  It was good getting on both men's calls this week and I see as I stay engaged, reading, interacting on the forums and calls I continue to change, feeling more confident about my walk with the Lord and where our marriage is headed.  Thanks again helpers for all your guidance.  Have a wonderful weekend.

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Feeling lonely/disconnected from my wife tonight. :( Earlier today she hurt her knee and has been in some pain. I wanted to share with my wife more about my day, but she was visibly frustrated by me and did NOT want to talk or answer any of my questions, which I realize is an indirect way I seek attention. :unsure:   I reiterated she did not have to talk with me and to rest just before bed and kissed her arm good night wishing her well before going downstairs to read.  It is hard to see her hurting this way and expressing how uncomfortable she is around me.  I want her to be relaxed and at ease around me and in our home.

 

Today I found out my niece is sick which may affect my sister from visiting us next week whom I have not seen since August 2012. I talked with my sister today which is good and I prayed with her and later just with the kids at bedtime tonight.  Additionally I have a number of pressures at work I wanted my wife's input on.  I am praying about all the responsibilities I am currently facing at work.  I believe that stress of work is something she is picking-up on even though I have sought to hold it back from affecting her and the kids. I miss doing devotions just with her and praying together.  I really long for that time and intimacy sharing in fellowship together, just my wife and I.  I am also praying about a weekly family dinner, which I would like to prepare and have us all together.  We don't normally eat dinner together as a family as I get home later from work around 6 or 6:30.  I don't want to go overboard with a detailed family meeting, but I do feel it may be good to set-up regular weekly meal time.  I have come to really look forward to our weekly dates and want to create something similar for the entire family.  I welcome your input on these ideas.

 

Good news is I was able to spend some good quality time with our kids (teaching them how to ride and bike and scooter) and put them both to bed tonight when I got home from work.  My daughter even helped me put her bed together! :smile:  

 

As I write this tonight I realize that Christ has only just begun to mold me into a new man.  I am committed to continuing on the journey and know that as I become more Christlike and embrace manhood I will be in a better place.  Even as I acknowledge my loneliness, I realize that it is an opportunity to come to God and be in a deeper relationship with Him as I need to fully rely on Him to meet my needs.  

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The other day I was in a pouty lonely over-worked moment and my daughter was being a "teenager." I finally let loose and started telling her that no one was paying me.. that I wanted to socialize also.. all that kind of stuff and I was feeling my emotions physically. In a few seconds though I realized i was not just correcting her but "dumping" on her, so I stopped, took a breath and internally just said : "Jesus, help!"  which was the only prayer I could manage at the moment. About five minutes later I noticed that I was completely and totally OK... it was such a dramatic change. I stopped and said: "God, what is going on?"

The answer that came into my mind?  "That was my angels ministering to you."

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The other day I was in a pouty lonely over-worked moment and my daughter was being a "teenager." I finally let loose and started telling her that no one was paying me.. that I wanted to socialize also.. all that kind of stuff and I was feeling my emotions physically. In a few seconds though I realized i was not just correcting her but "dumping" on her, so I stopped, took a breath and internally just said : "Jesus, help!"  which was the only prayer I could manage at the moment. About five minutes later I noticed that I was completely and totally OK... it was such a dramatic change. I stopped and said: "God, what is going on?"

The answer that came into my mind?  "That was my angels ministering to you."

Thanks 4evr.  I recognize the tendency to dump.  Yes I reached out in prayer and read the Word last night and this morning taking it to God.  I turned to the forums as well as another positive outlet.  This morning I was able to share a bit with my wife, similar to what I wrote last night.  I knew she was tired last night and did not have the energy to "work" with me.  In her words I am a lot of work after putting the kids to bed.  I find that I want to share more with her and that can turn into dumping as in the past I would hardly talk with her about what is going on in my life and what I am thinking about.  I did ask that she share any promptings from the Lord as she studies the Word and be open to sharing those insights with me.  I don't want to task her with work, but rather encourage her to share what God puts upon her heart to help guide me as a husband and father.

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Thanks 4evr.  I recognize the tendency to dump.  Yes I reached out in prayer and read the Word last night and this morning taking it to God.  I turned to the forums as well as another positive outlet.  This morning I was able to share a bit with my wife, similar to what I wrote last night.  I knew she was tired last night and did not have the energy to "work" with me.  In her words I am a lot of work after putting the kids to bed.  I find that I want to share more with her and that can turn into dumping as in the past I would hardly talk with her about what is going on in my life and what I am thinking about.  I did ask that she share any promptings from the Lord as she studies the Word and be open to sharing those insights with me.  I don't want to task her with work, but rather encourage her to share what God puts upon her heart to help guide me as a husband and father.

 

 

I totally get the feeling lonely and disconnected feelings. Feelings are feelings and they are OK, it's what you do with them that matters. It's also OK to vent here which you might have been doing. You absolutely CAN NOT let those feelings overflow onto your wife and from what you sounded like above I'm afraid your feelings were oozing out and she could see it! You have to take them to the CROSS and deal with them with GOD - he is your life source and your strength. I remember when they used to tell me that and I would get frustrated because I was feeling like, really, how does that work - I'm hurting here and now and God is not here. But I can assure you that GOD is faithful and he will meet your needs when you allow Him too. You just have to remember to STOP and ALLOW HIM too - HE will not chase you down!

 

I think you need to dig down deep into your intentions here. Your need to share more with your wife, if driven out of Ephesians 5:25 love, will not dump on her. I'm feeling like your need to share with her right now is a desperate need within yourself to get some validation from her even if that is just her being willing to listen to you. There is nothing wrong with you being able to share with her, that is completely normal in any good marriage and that will come in time. For now, please be careful not to do these things with the wrong expectations or intentions or it will just make your situation worst. Dig down deep and go before Christ and ask Him to reveal these things to you through His Holy Spirit! 

 

Again, I get it, I've been there and I know how hard it is! Just hope I can help you see this sooner rather than later :)

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wanted to share with my wife more about my day, but she was visibly frustrated by me and did NOT want to talk or answer any of my questions, which I realize is an indirect way I seek attention.

 

Interesting. I think I'll borrow this for my thread. I can see how this is possibly the same reason my husband asks so many questions. I find it very frustrating, too.

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I totally get the feeling lonely and disconnected feelings. Feelings are feelings and they are OK, it's what you do with them that matters. It's also OK to vent here which you might have been doing. You absolutely CAN NOT let those feelings overflow onto your wife and from what you sounded like above I'm afraid your feelings were oozing out and she could see it! You have to take them to the CROSS and deal with them with GOD - he is your life source and your strength. I remember when they used to tell me that and I would get frustrated because I was feeling like, really, how does that work - I'm hurting here and now and God is not here. But I can assure you that GOD is faithful and he will meet your needs when you allow Him too. You just have to remember to STOP and ALLOW HIM too - HE will not chase you down!

Thanks Tony.  I know you have been there. As I lay down my life seeking this change I am so DRAWN to my wife.  It is an incredible feeling, however it is hard when she does not respond as warmly as I would like, I realize I need to check my own expectations.  I normally catch myself quickly and make sure to stop as you noted and seek out the Lord.

 

 

I think you need to dig down deep into your intentions here. Your need to share more with your wife, if driven out of Ephesians 5:25 love, will not dump on her. I'm feeling like your need to share with her right now is a desperate need within yourself to get some validation from her even if that is just her being willing to listen to you. There is nothing wrong with you being able to share with her, that is completely normal in any good marriage and that will come in time. For now, please be careful not to do these things with the wrong expectations or intentions or it will just make your situation worst. Dig down deep and go before Christ and ask Him to reveal these things to you through His Holy Spirit! 

 

Again, I get it, I've been there and I know how hard it is! Just hope I can help you see this sooner rather than later :)

Yes I am digging deeper every day.  I do pray about sharing more about my hopes and dreams for us and our family.  I want to share as she is my closest friend and confidant. I get excited about connecting with her on a deeper level in due time.  I recognize what you are saying about a desperation for validation and that intention really needs to be measured.  I truly appreciate your encouraging words, particularly as you are reunited with your own wife.  

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Interesting. I think I'll borrow this for my thread. I can see how this is possibly the same reason my husband asks so many questions. I find it very frustrating, too.

Glad you found that helpful.  It is something I have come to learn overtime.  Also in reading Maximized Manhood it was shared how a wife typically wants the FINE PRINT and not the HEADLINES we men so often offer up.  My wife wants meaningful conversation and not idle chit chat - get to the meat of the conversation and don't beat around the bush!  I still struggle at times with this.  I realize this is an area I can live in better understanding with my wife.

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I do pray about sharing more about my hopes and dreams for us and our family.  I want to share as she is my closest friend and confidant. I get excited about connecting with her on a deeper level in due time.

It may just be me, but, this makes me feel overwhelmed, or it would if it were my husband writing. You speak of your eagerness to share YOUR hopes and dreams "for us and our family". If I was your wife reading this post, I would be feeling a little anxious right now. As in, "Is he going to overwhelm me with all his 'wonderful' ideas, breathlessly hoping against hope that I am going to immediately open up with a big smile and say, 'Of course, yes! What great ideas you have, Choose Love! Let's do all of it!' "

 

I think you will need to shelve your hopes and dreams for your marriage and your family until you have discovered what your wife's hopes and dreams are. Until she feels safe enough to even talk about things like that with you. I don't think this discussion you want is for the near future.

 

As far as I can tell, when a wife hears her husband voice a wish or desire, she automatically responds in her heart with the desire to grant his wish -- just like a good fairy. But the longer she has been granting wishes without enough oxytocin infusions to renew her emotional energies, the more she cannot BEAR to hear about another one of his hopes or dreams. She is empty -- and CANNOT grant wishes -- and she probably still "wishes" that she could! This is frustrating and exhausting to her. I guarantee it!

 

So, I say, pray about the Holy Spirit helping you to minister this oxytocin/healing to your wife and about coming to understand her better until the above hopes and dreams conversation comes about naturally.

 

I think the time and the place for it will come as a surprise to you! You'll be listening to her hopes and dreams, then it will be your turn, and then you may even discover that you like hers better. ;)

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As far as I can tell, when a wife hears her husband voice a wish or desire, she automatically responds in her heart with the desire to grant his wish -- just like a good fairy. But the longer she has been granting wishes without enough oxytocin infusions to renew her emotional energies, the more she cannot BEAR to hear about another one of his hopes or dreams. She is empty -- and CANNOT grant wishes -- and she probably still "wishes" that she could! This is frustrating and exhausting to her. I guarantee it!

 

 

THIS is an amazing summary of exactly how i felt in my marriage. I cannot tell you, ChooseLove how very right this is! Very wise words, indeed!

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Wow Mary Jane, very well said indeed.

 

ChooseLove, that overwhelming desire that you have to connect with your wife is coming from the revelations that your getting from this ministry and from God as we men realize how much we took our wives for granted in the past, how much we took advantage of them, how much we ignored them, how much we abused and neglected them while at the same time realizing that all along we missed seeing that perfect woman that God gave us who was right there all along. We suddenly fall back in love, we want to make up for lost time, we want to heal them and we want to make everything right and we want to do it now! :)

 

Again, nothing wrong with that but all in due time my friend...........As Mary Jane said above, 

 

 

 

Your job right now is to LAY DOWN YOUR LIFE for her. This means giving her the time, the space and the unconditional love that she needs to renew her spirit and her mind and her desire for you. 

 

You will not grow unless you are willing to PUT HER FIRST. Trust me when I say that when you LAY DOWN YOU LIFE and PUT HER FIRST, that God will not only HEAL YOUR WIFE but in that process, you too will find healing and find that God will fill you up and meet your needs as well.......

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Thank you all for your words today, it has really helped me.  I see what a selfish man I am and continue to be.  I have not totally given up my own selfish desires and keep seeking them out at her expense. I need to change the direction of my hope in connecting with her in this way as you identified MaryJane - it is not as easy to do as I would like. Each day I get the opportunity to choose life or death, and I choose life in living out as Christlike a life as I can to bless my wife and family, so I know this can be done! 

 

Last night my wife slept on the couch  for the first time since we shared a bed again without saying good night to me. She went straight downstairs right after putting our son to bed so she would not have to interact with me.  It is obvious I am crowding her and not laying down my life down for her.  I need to continue backing off physical touch as I initiated snuggling with her the other morning which she did not appreciate, again my own desire coming out.  When I came downstairs after snuggling my son in our bed I smiled and brought her water glass to her keeping things positive and light.

 

I read James 5 this morning, particularly verses 7-11 about perseverance  and waiting on the Lord which also reinforced what you have shared Tony.  I know the Lord will meet my needs and most likely not in the way that I expect!  Again, I really appreciate the words shared today. 

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Remember

 

- there is a delicate balance between respecting your wife's boundaries and pursuing her so she feels needed.  A woman needs to be pursued to understand her value as your wife.

 

This is where what Tony was saying above comes into play.  When you are pursuing her out of the proper motivation (Ephesians 5:25-32) versus getting your needsw met, she can sense this.

 

John 15:12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.

 

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Remember

 

- there is a delicate balance between respecting your wife's boundaries and pursuing her so she feels needed.  A woman needs to be pursued to understand her value as your wife.

 

This is where what Tony was saying above comes into play.  When you are pursuing her out of the proper motivation (Ephesians 5:25-32) versus getting your needsw met, she can sense this.

Thanks TP.  Yes I am seeing that more and more.  I sometimes feel like I am on a balance beam and fall off, only to get up again and keep doing the best I can as I learn more about how to adjust my technique, that is living out Ephesians 5:25.

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I agree. At times like this I like to remind myself of the scripture in Micah 7:8 KJV.

 

"Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I sit in darkness, the Lord shall be a light unto me."

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Good morning all,

 

Quite a bit has happened since I last post.  My wife recently started posting on the forums as MourningCloak at http://joelandkathy.com/boards/index.php?/topic/7878-new-here-but-husband-has-been-very-active-on-the-forums/. and started sharing her side of the story which I am encouraged about.  I think it will be helpful to her to get input and reassurance from the helpers and for me to see a different perspective and of course input from the helpers in ways I can be a better husband, loving my wife in a understanding way.  We were able to listen to a call on both Sunday and Monday night for a bit which was good as well.

 

One of the big issues as the moment I have brought up on the calls recently is that one of my sisters and brother-in-law are still hurt by her actions, even though I have tried to explain to them repeatedly how I have contributed to the state of our marriage. It is not my wife's job to sooth them, but it is mine to make it clear to them my role in all of this.  Joel suggested getting their second book, which I have ordered another copy to share with them.  I have hurt my wife in so many ways in what I shared in the past (October-November 2013 time frame), talking to so many people, however thanks to this ministry, I have seen the light and I am working on making healthy changes that will bless her as I become a more Godly man.  With that said I realize more and more why she does not desire much physical touch, as I am the man that hurt her in the first place.  I realize in many ways my pursuit of her was more selfish and not bring her life and healing, but being more draining in the hugs and kisses I was offering. As she as written, I need to match her where she is at, emotionally and physically.

 

I am thankful we had a nice weekend together as a family, even though we did not have our weekly date night, which was planned for Saturday, as my wife was not feeling well.  This week I will have a couple days off for vacation and we plan to spend time with my other sister and family.  

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I was just coming over here to bust you for not posting since your wife started, and then you posted. Switching cattle prod to standby ... :P

 

Read my last couple of posts to your wife so I don't have to copy it over here. I'm feeling very lazy at the moment. ^_^

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I was just coming over here to bust you for not posting since your wife started, and then you posted. Switching cattle prod to standby ... :P

 

Read my last couple of posts to your wife so I don't have to copy it over here. I'm feeling very lazy at the moment. ^_^

Thanks LT.  Yes I am most definitely reading.  Taking it all it.  It was good hearing you and TP on the call last night, particularly as you talked with T and A about their situation.  I don't want to fall back as I have seen T do with A.  TP your point about the 1-2 year mark being the hardest took me back a bit, but I can see that being true as we start to get comfortable in our new skin so to speak, only to realize how much farther we need to go.  I was reading Angry Men and the Women Who Love Them by Paul Hegstrom and he reiterated in that book it takes up to 36 months to reprogram the brain.  I see I have just started on this journey and it is so worth it to put in the time to become that man of Christ.  As TP said last night what is 6-12 months or even a longer as an investment if we are able to share 20-40 or more years together living an OHM!  :)

 

 

 

Hi! I'm so glad you're here!

 

I don't have a lot to add to what everyone's already said. However, one thing that might help you is to have CL write an apology letter to the family. My best friend's husband did this and it was SO healing. He basically took responsibility for the state of their marriage and told them that they needed to unconditionally support Melissa and come to him with any issues.

 

If you feel like that's something you would like CL to do, I can link him to Steve's letter and then coach him through how to make it specific for your situation. We would definitely have you read it and approve of it before he would send it to anyone.

 

As everyone else said, your feelings are normal. It's OK to be where you're at, and CL needs to respect that and to stop pressuring you. I know this is really hard to believe, but when a husband is doing what he needs to do consistently, a wife's feelings generally do come back. Yeah, I know. I didn't believe it either. But in the 5-6 months my ex gave me before he bailed, I did find myself warming up to him. If he had kept going, I think I would have fallen in love with him again. I could see it heading in that direction, but he walked out.

 

So hang in there. We understand, and we've got your back. We'll get CL whipped into shape. I have a cattle prod.  :P

 

I am totally up for an apology letter.  I would like to explore that further with my wife as well as the temperament testing.  I am still taking a lot in, realizing the depths of hurt I caused my wife.  I am all in and will do whatever is necessary to bring love, life, hope and healing.  Thanks again LT for jumping in on both of our threads.  

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ChooseLove, having your wife on the forum posting is a blessing but please do not get comfortable, it does not change what you have to do here. Let her be your guide to getting to the other side.

 

Picture you and your wife out on the lake in a canoe, you are setting in the seat with your back to your destination rowing and she is setting in the opposite seat looking at you and beyond you - at the final destination. It is up to her to guide you by correcting your course by helping you make minor and sometimes major adjustments to your course if you two are to get to your destination (OHM)! 

 

Rowing takes practice and persistence. It is almost impossible to stay in a straight line at a consistent speed without rhythm, physical strength and coordination. Along the way you will encounter obstacles and sway off course. Your wife, your helpmeet, will offer you suggestions and directions to get you back on course but it will be up to you to take action and to keep the boat going towards that OHM!

 

Talk to you on the men's call - keep on keeping on my brother - the journey is worth it! :)

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ChooseLove, having your wife on the forum posting is a blessing but please do not get comfortable, it does not change what you have to do here. Let her be your guide to getting to the other side.
 
Picture you and your wife out on the lake in a canoe, you are setting in the seat with your back to your destination rowing and she is setting in the opposite seat looking at you and beyond you - at the final destination. It is up to her to guide you by correcting your course by helping you make minor and sometimes major adjustments to your course if you two are to get to your destination (OHM)! 
 
Rowing takes practice and persistence. It is almost impossible to stay in a straight line at a consistent speed without rhythm, physical strength and coordination. Along the way you will encounter obstacles and sway off course. Your wife, your helpmeet, will offer you suggestions and directions to get you back on course but it will be up to you to take action and to keep the boat going towards that OHM!
 
Talk to you on the men's call - keep on keeping on my brother - the journey is worth it! :)

Thanks my brother.  Great words.  I will be on the men's call tonight.  

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